Micro 1054 || Fuzzy Friends Coalition || Game Over!

[skitter30]

Heya all :)

regular vla fridays and saturdays, but this weekend through monday as well

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Also irrelephant really nice to see you again!

I'm getting good vibes from fire thus far
HEAL: fire

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Hey ari <3

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HEAL: skitter30
VOTE: aristeia

HEAL: skitterrrrr

mew

Why?

~

HEAL: irrelephant

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Ya. And i liked his reason for the nk15 heal

~
You (or ari) feel a little weird. At least, your interaction did, but i'm not sure which side is off

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viewtopic.php?f=84&t=77726

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Iirc he repped into that one.
Irrelephant isnt really a meta-based read, i kinda lowkey just wanted ro link that

~

And, well, why/how do you think ari is being weird here? (I'm assuming that's what ur insinuating at least)

[skitter30]

Usually there's a lot of happy-heart-flirty vibes from your side
And dats not exactly responding in turn but playing along

This time feels a lot more stilted and forced. I'm not sure which of the 2 of you is the source of that

Like 37 -> 38 -> 47 feels really off, for example

[skitter30]

if you look at my iso during our last game together I also did not do as much flirting ^_^

Iirc it went on longer than here

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I'm lowkey getting tvs vibes from ari/dats rn
Dont particularly want either in my coalition rn

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Amd @ari fwiw it isnt inherenrly how much flirting etc there is, or over what timeframe its stretched over

But it feels like you jumped into 'serious' mode way faster than usual. And i think that's the bit that feels off to me

[skitter30]

Dunno. It feels weird here so i'm noting that

and @dats, again, as i think i said this already. Its not how long the flirting went on for, or how much time there was in between flirting interactions

Its the fact that your first few interactions felt weird and stilted, and not similar to what i've seen on the past. And i dont need fo know exactly what the source of 'offness' is to feel something is off
And i'm kinda baffled that you agree with me that your interactions feel off but that i'm scummy for noting / feeling that

[skitter30]

i agreed that i felt ari's response towards me was weird

then she gave a plausible explanation to why it was weird,

I mean you indicated you thought ot was weird for me to think that before she gave said explanation

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also I kind of don't think scum!skitter directly comes at me this early >_>[if she did it just to get townread I guess I'm dumb]

Nah, i dont

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i feel like you're not necessarily wrong on thinking our interaction is weird because i did think it was weird too, but fmpov it is kind of clear which side is weird so your callout is Odd to me

(not necessarily scummy, just Odd)

[skitter30]

me you skitter

I dont think this is ai for ari
And i'm also probably not supporting such a coalition at this time

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I was just thinking that it would be really horrible if you were actually mafia and got me to trust you and then eliminate everyone else in the coalition besides you and then we had to 1v1 at elo it would be like a scary horror movie where you find out the killer is inside the house and I would have nightmares :<

hmm i don't like this one

Fwiw this is kinda the posts i was expecting to see

[skitter30]

I should be in more Heal lists tbh

Not sure i like this in this setup

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Do you really think that ari would feel off here if this would be tvs? No, it's svs, that's what is happening.

To rephrase: i think there's at least one scum in the 2 of them

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I should be in more Heal lists tbh

Not sure i like this in this setup

I was channeling Shoshin so you would dislike it lol

Fair enuf, but in this setup, that makes me wary

[skitter30]

HEAL: skitter

Wait why

[skitter30]

This might be rash but
HEAL: mena

[skitter30]

This might be rash but
HEAL: mena

How rash

I have vague townpings but am not convinced he's out of his scumrange

[skitter30]

HEAL: std
Maybe i'm wrong on fire

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@ari why do u think fire gives me a townread and hedges a scumread on you
Kf anything i kinda feel like scum-him would do the opposite
(I am very prone to getting pocketed, yes yes yes)

[skitter30]

I kinda feel like a scumread on you would be harder for him to maneuver than a townread on you?
Like i dont think scum-him wants a 1v1 with u at all

[skitter30]

my secret read from earlier was that save the dragons is scum and sadly he probably still is. this is purely a vibes read and i have little to justify it but i feel it in my soul

I kinda exactly disagree with this

[skitter30]

Indeed

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I think mena is probably town
(Fwiw r.e. your approach to me: i think my game has gotten a bit worse recently, and that ari should probably be in the bucket you usually put me in, and that i'm probably not in the same tier as her these days, but i dont like inherently oppose or object to this approach to me, and can understand it
)

@nk15 why do you think they're svs and not svt?

[skitter30]

I think mena is probably town
(Fwiw r.e. your approach to me: i think my game has gotten a bit worse recently, and that ari should probably be in the bucket you usually put me in, and that i'm probably not in the same tier as her these days, but i dont like inherently oppose or object to this approach to me, and can understand it
)

okay, noted -- I'm inclined to still sort you as normal, but I'll maybe put a bit less of a BoP on you than I have sometimes in the past as acknowledgement of that

Sure. Like i said feel free to do with this as you will, i'm not saying you should change how you approach me, or not, i'm just sharing how i feel abt my game now vs in the past

[skitter30]

@nk15 why do you think they're svs and not svt?

Because ari would be mentally prepared to be scum vs. Datisi.
But not prepared to be scum with Datisi(which has a much lower chance, after all).

Hmmm i'm not sure i understand what you're trying to say here

[skitter30]

he is saying that I am ready to play either alignment but I have issues playing scum with him specifically as my partner because it is something with a low p-value and I have not done it before

its an interesting read.

Ah ok yeah
Not sure i agree with that logic tho, i think you would like playing scum with dats

I think the awkwardness could come from the svs universe tho

And wrt the latter post: fair enuf!

[skitter30]

i dont really get the awkward read

he feels fine to me >_>

Dunno. Early interactions between the two of u certainly felt forced and unnatural

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Like 37 -> 38 -> 47 feels really off, for example

It wasnt entirely you, was dats also. This whole sequence + extended dialogue felt weird

And tbf so does 253

Why are u townreading me again?

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Ari do u think i ought to be townreading u?

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I guess one way you could tell is that I'm trying to dial back on my thread presence because last time it was quite unpleasant for everyone that I was that loud and forceful and I wouldn't really exercise similar restraint if I'm mafia because I'd feel obligated to force my way into coalition whereas here I'm fine letting others lead.

I think you're much more pleasant this time around :)
(Not inherently convinced it makes yoh town tho)

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Fwiw i've played many games with irrel, albeit not really recently

I linked that one in particular because it was the first round of coalition ever iirc and it was a Good Game with a good pl

I wasnt trying to imply anything r.e. meta or how we should be reading his alignment here

[skitter30]

Hi Dats <3

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Ugh dats feels scummy to me but its possible i just dont know how to read him >.>

[skitter30]

Ugh dats feels scummy to me but its possible i just dont know how to read him >.>

i'm around and will be around so you can ask me stuff if you want, but atp i have a feeling that you scumreading me just means that i am present in the game

Fair enuf! I have to pretend to do my job now but i'll see if i have anythinf else to ask u later

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NK15 - I liked his thought about me being off balance because I am mafia with Datisi, I liked the singleminded focus on pushing that worldview - it feels like something he genuinely believes.

nk15 - so i guess on surface i kinda agree with you, but then when i think about it more, i wonder: wow, there really isn't a ton of nuance here, and he's very dogged abt this opinion, and doesn't really seem to be revisiting it much, so now i'm less ure

[skitter30]

SaveTD - It's mostly the charisma. I liked that he's taking more of a leadership role and he's not trying to fade into the background.

skitter do you agree with this assessment?

asking you specifically cause you disagreed with my take on std and i feel like exactly the opposite of this so if you both disagree with me there then maybe im just interpreting wrong idk

honestly no
i'm not 100% sure how to articulate this read but i know this isn't it

[skitter30]

correct me if i'm wrong, but this post kind of makes it sould like scum!fire would *have* to give one townread and one scumread in {aristeia, skitter}, so my q is why

and also like, why do you think fire would be likely to townread you here? i don't think he's familiar with your prone-ness to getting pocketed or whatever

no i meant more like, *if* a sr were to be given out, i would have expected it to be the other way around
not that he necessarily had to give sr's

and similarly *if* scum-fire were giving townreads to everyone, i think he'd think it would naturally go to ari

[skitter30]

why? i don't necessarily disagree, but the timing of this makes me feel like you're townreading him for things i don't really think are town!indicative

i like his approach to me (namely, townread me always etc but also exercising caution wrt putting me in the coalition, feels like a natural approach if he's worried about me)
i like his approach to coalition-making in general

[skitter30]

Fwiw i've played many games with irrel, albeit not really recently

I linked that one in particular because it was the first round of coalition ever iirc and it was a Good Game with a good pl

I wasnt trying to imply anything r.e. meta or how we should be reading his alignment here

btw the game I repped in was not the first coalition ever. It was the third, and the second one we won together

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=77544

ooooooh fair enuf. that one has definitely stuck in my memory tho

[skitter30]

Skitter if you reread their early game do you still think they’re being awkward in a scummy way

yeah (particularly 47) but not as bad as i did before
so maybe i'm just tunneled idk
i really don't like the context of 47 + it's surrounding dialogue tho

~
HURT: all
HEAL: mena
HEAL: std
VOTE: mala

[skitter30]

I dunno I think most of what I found weird about Datisi/Aristeia is being resolved by
-both working hard for town (maybe, maybe I'm accidentally just townreading lots of posts)
-reading a bit of their shared history, which is explaining why their earlygame dynamic seemed so complex so quickly

Why is it scummy for their shared history to... not repeat itself exactly as it has before?

yeah they have a lot of shared history + i would expect a complex earlygame dynamic
i think what threw me off was ari going into 'serious' mode so quickly, and towards dats
if she is going to go into serious mode, i wouldn't expect it to be towards dats
(she could totally go into serious mode to push someone else tho)
so like i'm not sure it's inherently scummy, but it felt *weird* in a way that doesn't feel right for tvt either

also: HEAL: irrelephant

[skitter30]

did you roll town Dats? :)

i'm town

i will try my best to be townie and to read four more people correctly so that we win with a successful coalition

will you be joining me?

I guess that would depend on how townie you are and whether you can read me correctly as townie in the next couple of days :)

I guess that would depend on how townie you are and whether you can read me correctly as townie in the next couple of days :)

why do already i feel like you are keeping your distance from me this game :<

i'm p sure you meant these @irrel?

yes i've seen them, and for those two in particular ari's response doesn't match the context/tone of the above

[skitter30]

no, all of hte posts that i quoted are p much exactly in line with how i'd expect their interactions to go
47 wasn't, and that's why it felt weird

pedit ty for doing my homework for me >.>

[skitter30]

i'm not saying i think you pushed him
(or if i said that (i don't think i did?) that's not what i meant at least)

maybe i worded it badly but what i was trying to say is that the the tone/seriousness of 47 is out of character for you wrt dats at that stage, and that's what's pinging me abt it

it is very possible i am reading way too much into this, but that's what i felt abt it

[skitter30]

in that ...

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Oh no we probably should start coalescing >.>

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I guess dictator does have a bad connotation

how about designated town leader person

Uh honestly not especially? Like i can say what i think but i don't love telling everyone else what to do

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like this just is pure scum tbh

. Not really tbh

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I did wonder how you managed to sign up within a minute of dats...

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so i'm left with me/mena/skitt/ari and one of std or irrel?

I'm still on the fence with u and ari but i'm also wondering if i should Get Over It
But otherwise i dont hate this

~
I kinda think scum is in fire, mala, nk15
Which kinda makes me think i have to include one of ari/dats

[skitter30]

HEAL: myself

[skitter30]

ari and i planning to join games together? who would've seen that coming

skitt, did you read my Thoughts(tm) on irrel and std and like, where am i going wrong?

Sorry i'm in the office today so i'll respond later / be around sporadically

[skitter30]

a lot of it feels like going through the motions for the sake of looking like he's thinking about things rather than actually thinking about things, especially since his latest coalition is "i sheep std" which makes it so he doesn't even have to stand strongly behind it

@dats wrt irrel: i guess this is the bit i disagree with. I do feel like i see his progressions, and that he's continually going back and reviewing and challenging his own assumptions and taking new info into acct

[skitter30]

then, his vote of mena for 145/146. maybe it's me who's used to mena's sense of humour and writing style and those posts seemed very normal to me. (in fact they were a bit of a positive sign after the first few posts which felt way too boring but anyway.) std immediately jumping onto that feels like scum who saw a townie acting wacky and decided to try to spin them into looking bad, i.e. performative, because the words that they wrote were level-zero-thinking bad. like, i usually find that town is more likely to critically think about *why* mena would write something that maybe looks weird while scum is more likely to try to make it seem bad because that is their job description. yes i'm aware std later said he misunderstood or changed his mind or whatever no i still don't like it.

the rest of his iso is also... kinda boring. like, a bunch of it is joking around or arguing theory with mena. like, afair i don't think std usually puts out a lot of content as town or rather not a lot of "serious, well structured content", but there's usually some sorta thought process i can follow and here i don't think i can follow a lot of it. not sure if i could explain the reason of one read he had

And then wrt std:
- honestly i dont really have a problem with the mena vote given votes dont count anyways
- i similarly feel like he is reassessing his townreads and who he wants in the coaliton
- yes i guess it is in part a viberead, and none of these are compelling reasons for me to scumread him

[skitter30]

a lot of it feels like going through the motions for the sake of looking like he's thinking about things rather than actually thinking about things, especially since his latest coalition is "i sheep std" which makes it so he doesn't even have to stand strongly behind it

@dats wrt irrel: i guess this is the bit i disagree with. I do feel like i see his progressions, and that he's continually going back and reviewing and challenging his own assumptions and taking new info into acct

Oh nice mena gave a ehole bunch of examples in 414

[skitter30]

I kinda think scum is in fire, mala, nk15
Which kinda makes me think i have to include one of ari/dats

would like greater explanation of this please

Which bit? I see no strong reason to townread fire/mala/nk15. That's 3 players, with 6 remaining. If i exclude those 3 i need to include one of ari/dats to get to 5

(And my current coalition i think is exactly pl - fire/mala/nk15 - ari/dats)

[skitter30]

the thought process laid out in 190 is something that i don't exactly recall ari do when she's scum, making plans is one thing but this is such a small thing that i don't know if scum!her bothers to fake it because like, scum!her doesn't need to fake such a thing in order to be persuasive and get her goal.

there's also... the ??? of townreading nk15 and declaring him as coalition material. like he pretty much said he was gonna not let ari into the coalition, and the read he said is bad, why would scum!her be hyping him up? like, it only makes sense if it's theatre, except it doesn't make sense if it's theatre because it's downright the stupidest theatre i'd seen.

@irrel wrt to dats' ari read: i dont find it especially compelling, esp. for ari in particular. I probably like these bits the best but it isnt enuf to make me feel comfortable/confident on ari

I do kinda like dats' analysis here tho tbh

[skitter30]

my boss is in the office today...are you my boss?

Logic checks out. I like 432 a lot actually

And i'm kinda liking dats' posts from today too. I suppose out of fire/mala/nk15/ari/dats i would probably feel the most comfortable with dats in the coalition

[skitter30]

@menalque, aristeia, skitter

Who's fire's scum buddy? Or alternatively: please link me to a game where fireisredsir scumread most of the playerlist and was town

Dunno. My best guess is mala

[skitter30]

@fire: should i be townreading u now?

[skitter30]

I’d like for some of the people who are townreading you to run through it for me, because as mentioned, I’m p far from locked in on you but rn I don’t feel comfortable with you on coalition

But I just figured as you were around I’d ask if there was anything you thought made it really obvious you were town that I was being boneheaded about

When i'm at a pc in a few hours i will try to elaborate

[skitter30]

hi friends i'm done with over 2/3rds of my biology seminar are y'all proud of me

Yay!

[skitter30]

a) how do u think you would be approaching this as scum?
b) ig i'm kinda just wondering what happened to the vibe townread i had last game for example, like why that isn't manifesting here

[skitter30]

a) probably just playing more to the consensus and trying to work with people and spending more time just chilling. like just pick 2 or 3 people early and townread them and then try to make a block with them and work together to solve with them. i would def be aiming for getting in the coalition personally since my main skill as scum usually is getting townread (that may have changed as i spend more time on forum, idk, i haven't been scum much yet)

b) idk, i feel like my vibes are generally pretty variable in early game depending on if i have any reads i care about + whatever outside circumstances i have. and then they mostly stabilize towards normal once the game picks up a bit more. last game i felt like i had 0 confident reads for most of the game so idk why exactly you townread me, i would have expected the opposite

a) fair enuf. fwiw if your'e scum here i think it's with some who is relatively widely scumread
b) idk i just was able to vibe that you were approaching that game with a townie mindset p easily. here i'm not. i'm not saying you're inherently scum for it, but it's making it hard for me to get to a townread on you if town

[skitter30]

ig ari fwiw:
i do understand your point. like rn i'm kinda focusing on the 'borderline' reads and who i can stomach putting in the coalition most easily, and i'm not really focusing on my biggest scumreads at all
but tbf to fire, my biggest scumreads also aren't really in the coalition to begin with, so i'm not super concerned about them at this moment

but if my biggest scumread were someone who was relatively widely townread and it looked likely they would get in, i can understand being v. concerned around said scumread, because from my pov we wouldn't insta-win if they did indeed get in

so like i'm not particularly convinced this is town-fire, but focusing on irrel doens't inherently bother me or make me scumread him

[skitter30]

i think he's arguign that he's focusing on irrel the most because he's on a lot of people's heal-lists
but not that he's scumreading him *because* he's on a lot of people's heal-lsits

[skitter30]

ok can you write out the scumcase for irrel again cuz I guess I kind of just missed it then. or you can just like quote it for me if you have it down somewhere.

also this, cuz i'm not sure i get the scumcase either

[skitter30]

My wife sprained her ankle today so I'll be taking care of the kids more this week so I'll be posting less, @everyone

oh no i hope she's OK!!!

~

also i'm kinda liking fire more now idk
i'm worried i'm townreading someone i shouldn't be

[skitter30]

don't worry that was just a joke for the other people who were in that game

^

fire no matter your alignment i love your sense of humor

[skitter30]

as scum he has fine read progressions and etc and still can joke around and whatnot but he lacks that town energy.

he seems content to be a background character and pop up occasionally with a Good Post,

and yet not really drive things. when i read posts that he

makes as scum i picture him making a face and being like "ugh do i have to do this

".

i can understand this read/this approach to reading him, except this game i feel exactly the bolded and don't feel the italics

[skitter30]

eaving BOTH my scum partner and myself out of the coalition just KNOWING it'll get me so widely townread I end up in the coalition even though one player is tunneling me

tbf i don't think this is crazy - even if you leave yourself out of it now:
- there's enuf people townreading u that u might get it anyways
- approaching deadline you could very easily be like 'uuuuuhhhhh we need a coalition and a lot of people are healing me so i'll add myself'

it's not like you have no chance of getting in it

pedit my brain is mushy too >.>
i think rn i'm healing me/irrel/mena std and am thinking abt adding dats
is there anyone who should be there that isn't / do you strongly oppose to any of these?

[skitter30]

maybe. it's been a while and he's fooled me a few times
but i'm getting Good Vibes rn at least

and i think i townerad him more than i townread a lot of other people here

man this deadline is kinda short

i'd ideally probably want some more time to ruminate but given that we're running low on time given everything we need to do i'm leaning towards me/dats/irrel/std/mena
idk who i'd even go after if that fails tho

pedit @ari

[skitter30]

no? i mean i have a lot of respect for your scumgame but that's also not what i said

~
wrt ari: i'm feeling very wary of her, both for the early game + generally her scumgame is scary + i haven't seen anything that i think is out of her range / makes me strongly think town
and i'm probably going to get to a faster/more comfortable townread on dats than ari in this timeframe

[skitter30]

(sorry ari <3)

[skitter30]

on reflection, i could probably add ari on the condition that if she doesn't like literally solve the game and is alive in elo she gets flipped
(again sorry <3 i have to cover my bases!)

[skitter30]

sorry irrel i'm not trying to annoy you!
and i even townread you!

i just don't know if the reasons you're giving to townread yourself are inherently reasons why i townread you

[skitter30]

ok HEAL: dats

if this is wrong let's blame the short deadline

[skitter30]

interrupting this broadcast to ask why the scumteam isn't std/menalque? Not saying it is, just asking someone to remind me why, because paranoia. @ari? @skitter?

uh i townread both? are you asking me why i townread them or why they can't be scum together?
i don't particularly have an answer for the latter

[skitter30]

fair
idk if scum-std votes partner-menta for 146 and i'm not sure that later becomes such a Thing if that's the scumteam

[skitter30]

fair enuf. it isn't really clearing, but that's the best thing i can think of
also mena has been consistently sr'ing std and seems wary about adding him to the coalition which seems sort of counter-productive as partners here

[skitter30]

Datisi [5]: Datisi, Aristeia, skitter30, Menalque, Irrelephant11

So if i'm reading this right thus is the leading coalition?

Pedit oh now mine is tied with that i guess

[skitter30]

i asked mod and she said deadline is just for the coalition portion so we can take the full 7 days bless. :)

Oh yay

HURT: dats

[skitter30]

I kinda think scum is in fire, mala, nk15
Which kinda makes me think i have to include one of ari/dats

would like greater explanation of this please

Which bit? I see no strong reason to townread fire/mala/nk15. That's 3 players, with 6 remaining. If i exclude those 3 i need to include one of ari/dats to get to 5

(And my current coalition i think is exactly pl - fire/mala/nk15 - ari/dats)

So it’s PoE rather than actively scumreading them?

I guess yeah

[skitter30]

Ahhhhhhhh paranoia setting in!

[skitter30]

Yeah i'm not sure it *helps* to dive deep into the paranoia, but i'm certainly feeling it, abt one person in particular

[skitter30]

Honestly irrel ig my biggest issue with the scum-fire theory is: well, why?
If we assume he's scum, he's not really trying to replace your slot in the coalition with himself, ot even really anybody controversial as far as i can tell, so what's he getting out of this?

[skitter30]

Yes in my mind the game is like either:
1. That easy and its just 2 of nk/mala/fire
2. We're townreading scum

And idk which

[skitter30]

Why don’t you think ari is town again?

Also how do you feel about one of us towncasing std/Menalque and the other scumcasing them both? Or we each do one of each, whatever, I just think they’re the two most likely to be in a blind spot for me

Mostly just i'm not convinced she's out of her scumrange and i havent seem anything super townie from her either

Like i dont necessarily think she's scum, i'm just not nearly confident enuf to coalition her either

[skitter30]

Oh and for the latter: sure but wont happen till much later today

[skitter30]

If Datisi/ari has exactly one scum the other has to be wrong, because they townread each other. Why is Datisi less likely to read ari right than you?

He's not, he's if i'm being honestly probably better at reading ari than me
I still feel cautious tho

[skitter30]

I mean tbf that's really just the consensus tr list

[skitter30]

Nk why are u convinced its ari/dats again?

[skitter30]

<3 std hope everything is ok

[skitter30]

I have no credible explanation for their early interactions except SvS.
Yes, it's early, but I have not seen anything that would make me reconsider, and that idea by ari(putting me into that coalition) just smells.
Why does Ari not want to be on the coalition?
This is different from being not in a specific coalition.
But Ari doesn't want that at all. Mechanics tell you that this is a terrible idea. Actively removing yourself from that pool hurts win chances. And Ari knows mechanics.
Scum ari, however...
-isn't under immediate pressure as town seeks the scum on the list, and is free to manipulate the gamestate.
-gets more town on the list instead of being stuck with 2 scum in the list.

However, if the scumteam is ari/datisi, then me being off the list doesn't leave ari with much choice - she needs to get rid of me sooner than later, and somehow put me into a spot where I am a possible lim instead of a dangerous person from outside the list.
Scum needs to plan forward. A list with her and Datisi with me outside would fail, but leave her team in a terrible state

Ok a few things:
- from your pov why is tvt and tvs unlikely?
- why is bad for scum-ari for 2 scum to be in the coalition?
- dont understand why you being off the list is meaningufil in the ari-in/dats-in vs ari-out/dats-in universes

Like i guess i dont understand your point around the difference between 1 and 2 scum being in. Isnt 2 scum being in better?

[skitter30]

But a person can hold two thoughts in their brain at once. You can think it’s s/s and look for scumminess elsewhere in case you’re wrong

I have no credible explanation for their early interactions except SvS.
Yes, it's early,

It's not early
The only reason this setup is fair is because town can win by coalition,And time for coalition-ing is running out. If you’re town you’ve basically missed the one phase that contains most of town’s win equity. I forget the math but your play sucks and it’s a Big Deal (though change nothing if you’re scum)
It boggles my mind that you are clearly reading the thread but have no reads besides a single SvS from page 2.

A single SvS means that all others are automatically town.

I mean sure but how do u know you're right to the exclusion of all else?

[skitter30]

2-3) Because when the coalition fails we will exclusively yeet in the coalition until we hit scum. With me off the list I am off the yeet list and more likely to be town. Hence, I have greater pushing potential and am not a potential mislim until one of them falls. And if one of them falls Day 1 then the other one falls too, obviously.

you're saying that if ari is scum with dats
she's keeping herself out and trying to put you in as a potential misflip?

[skitter30]

THE META IS WRONG

I REALLY FUCKINg hate when it’s img she’s low effort she has to be scum

ITS NOT AI

FUCK MAN

hey mala hope everything is ok <3
do you have any thoughts on the game at all?

[skitter30]

have a good night dats!

[skitter30]

i actually don't hate nk15's response

[skitter30]

am I the only one having fun??

i am having fun :)

[skitter30]

skitter how is aristeia not town?

> regularly self-regulating to avoid flooding the thread/being too loud with uncertain takes
> open to new ideas while still coming into the thread with her own
> not really using popular thought in a way I can see as manipulative, like how you/me/std having similar reads or datisi/fire having similar reads could include scum copying bad reads to amplify them
> offering to stay out of the coalition and the only scummy player she's submitting into the coalition is nk15 which like WOW if their scum plan is "scumread each other hard and then argue about putting the other in the coalition and then immediately lim one and the other doesn't even look that clear"
> I can't really see ari as anyone's partner except like datisi I guess sorta kinda maybe?
> towny in tone

all of these points are valid
but she has a scary scumgame and the paranoia is difficult
and i'm not convinced she's out of her range

pedit u did misread him in that game where me/dats were convinced u were our traitor

[skitter30]

no i am town :good:
beign scum with dats is fun tho

and that's very fair
so it's like hard to give your townread of him a ton of weight, ya know?

[skitter30]

I would give it almost no weight at all tbh

indeed
i do find your scum-nk15 -> dats convincing tho

[skitter30]

but yeah i guess i'll go through the thought experiment:

ari agreeing to be left out of a coalition of me/irrel/mena/std/dats
means it doesn't make sense for her to be scum with fire/mala/nk15

tbh i don't see anything impossible for ari + any of irrel/mena/std/dats

[skitter30]

I'd be interested!

[skitter30]

Spoiler: sekrit ari reading tip just for skitter no peeking elephantman

Of my 11 games that I've played on this site I've never randed scum at start even once. [the only time I've actually played as mafia is when I rep'd into a game to flirt with Dats and that sucked a lot]

This game makes #12.

I can't be mafia because I am an angel :)

Spoiler:

i hope this is #12!

[skitter30]

Well, mala/ari isnt a thing
I'm kinda sus of mala's sr of ari tbh

[skitter30]

This might be a weird thing to say but i lowkey feel like mala is trying to mimic my trajectory on u

[skitter30]

Indeed

[skitter30]

This might be a weird thing to say but i lowkey feel like mala is trying to mimic my trajectory on u

it'd be so weird for her to do this because the posts you thought were awkward between me/datisi happened after she townread the two of us the first time so she can't actually produce anything to back up the read or mimic your trajectory :<

Oh hmmmm even weirder yeah

[skitter30]

Dont think mala is partnered with nk ?
Idk loose read but that's the vibe i get from some of her posts

[skitter30]

mala's entrance read on me/ari was that we're town/town at a time when it was kinda popular to say our interactions are awkward

but now that we're kind of consensus townreads our interactions are pockety

where's the path from point a to point b

@mala explaining this would be helpful please!

[skitter30]

Probably still you but apparently i relish paranoia and indecision
I.e. i'm still not confident on a 5th yet, if i had to pick one would probably be you but still not confident enuf to settle on that if that makes sense

I will probably get over this closer to deadline

[skitter30]

I actually like this post by NK.
It actually lines up with how I'm feeling right now about this gamestate. Other than I disagree with how high std & mena are
although, i usually go for a townbloc rather than a scum bloc until late game w/ a scum flip and then i scumhunt hardcore for interactions/associates

@relly this is the one that felt unaligneed to me

[skitter30]

Eh that's a fair point too

[skitter30]

It’s just the more I catch up on I don’t believe the crap that is coming out of aris mouth. I also love how everyone starts to push me out for being lurker and she doesn’t know me one bit but tries to justify her crap ass scum read on me based off two metas and says early in the game multiple time that those whom she doesn’t have exp playing with she tends to read wrong

Without actually reassessing she is wrong

I'm not pushing you for being a lurker at all
I'm just saying that at this point you're being sufficiently less townie than like everyone else and i dont see why you should be in mu coalition over, say, dats

I actuallu think its a little bit reductive to say people are scumreading u cuz you're lurking

Possible you answered later and i didnt get there yet, but why is ari scum now again?
Can you give an example where 'you dont believe the crap coming out of ari's mouth'?

[skitter30]

Std I really don’t know how to read you. Every single game you’re always just in a null spot and I hope 2 he’ll there’s a good player who can read you transparently well

So I just don’t ever feel comfortable putting yoy in a coalition in my mind when I don’t even know where to begin with reading ur alignment

i don't think that's a good reason but ok

i believe in you i believe you can read me

I mean I got close to having you a solid town read in control

But that was like waaaaay late in the game

Maybe it’s not a great reason but it’s something that I constantly deal with u.
I don’t want to risk placing someone who could be mafia in a coalition when we need to have 5 townies in a townblock
So why would I want to place someone who I’m reading as null in it???

If ari/dats is tvs as you're positing
And std is out of the coalition

Shouldnt std be like ur biggest scumread? This reads more like you just dont know how to read him. Dont understand why he's lower in coalition-ness for u than like the rest of the pl

Pedit was that @me?

[skitter30]

skitter, what is your paranoia re: dats stemming from?

***

fire, if you swap out skitter and Relly then we have a deal

I'm not convinced he's out of his range and i dont townread him enuf to feel confident betting the game on him

Its not to say i scumread him necessarily, but that's what i feel rn

[skitter30]

i think if ari is scum she's likely scum with someone who is already in, and so there is very little utility to leaving her out

... honestly this is a p good point

[skitter30]

i think if ari is scum she's likely scum with someone who is already in, and so there is very little utility to leaving her out

... honestly this is a p good point

Tbh the more I think abt it from this pov i'm not entirelu opposed to putting ari in
(On the condition that if it fails and she doesnt, like, solve the game she gets flipped before elo)

[skitter30]

Let’s just do me/fire/std/NK15/mala
Simple, easy, everyone can get on biard

This coalition for the win :upvote:
/s

[skitter30]

does anyone have a strong read on menalque and if so can they explain it

I think he's town. I dont think he takes the stands he is here as scum, and he's focusing on things that would be weird for scum

Not sure scum-him makes a point of townreading me and then wanting to keep me out of the coalitioj anyways

A lot of townvibes

~

I'm also finding that i am no longer completely opposed to putting fire in the coalition

[skitter30]

but i'd usually get a vibe when he's being actively manipulative and trying to get things his way, and i just don't get that feeling right now

Oh this does a much better job explaining how i feel abt mena than what i jusf said!

(Hoping he hasnt learned to pocket us in his hiatus >.>)

[skitter30]

Mala do u have any response to my posts towards u on the prior page?

I'm leaning towards me/mena/irrel/std + one of ari/dats/fire rn

[skitter30]

At least one of those probably is not winning tho

[skitter30]

I mean i'm opening the door for said miracle if you'd like to explain ur pov some more
Werent u townreading them at the time of the initial flirting?

[skitter30]

Mala do u have any response to my posts towards u on the prior page?

I'm leaning towards me/mena/irrel/std + one of ari/dats/fire rn

I really feel like this is too easy/i'm going wrong somewhere

[skitter30]

Can u point to something specific ur paranoid over?
Do u think you should be townread at this time?

[skitter30]

Ahhhhh i should probably be deciding/finalizing my coalition >.>
Is a core of like me/mena/irrel bad?

Should i just go with the consensis of ari/dats?
I really want std in, and i'm borderline on fire

[skitter30]

Ahhhh not gonna be here by deadline so i need ro put in my final coalition this afternoon ...

[skitter30]

I believe I answered this already. I have a tendancy to get pocketed quite easily. once i get townread and i have known/comfortable with the player i kinda just place blinders on and don't think the slot can be scum. it just burned me in two games recently, one which i was able to get out of the pocket and the other which i didnt

i'm just scared if one of dat/ari is scum the other is pocketed and they are going to use each other to manipulate

I mean:
- are either trying to pocket u rn?
- how are they using the other to manipulate?

[skitter30]

Are how confident are u in town-dats?

[skitter30]

Ahhhh that's a very difficult question
I dont feel confident enuf to be sheeped
At the same time i dislike relinquishing the decision

This is unhelpful, i know >.>

I'm at me/irrel/mena/std

I dont want mala in
I'm surprisingly ok with fire rn
Nk is probably (?) town but i dont really want them in anyways
And then i guess i kinda vibe with fire's point that if ari is scum its probably with someone in the consensus coalition anyways, so i'm no longer entirely opposed

I guess i dont object to putting ari in but i'd want her to go in with dats, and i want the condition to be that if its elo and she hasnt found all the scum, she gets flipped
Otherwise i probably want dats in

This is a lot of words to say i guess my ideal coalitions are:
Me/mena/irrel/std/dats or me/mena/irrel/dats/ari or

If i try to put in fire i want to bump mena which is surprising to me

[skitter30]

I think if you want to be the leader here you should put the reads you feel confident in.

I have a lot of thoughts about Dats and I'm not sure how helpful it will be for you to read them but I can write them down if you want me to.

I'm not confident I can find scum!him.

I mean i dont think i indicated i wanted to be a leader here at all >.> my reads arent confident enuf , and its not like i'm strongly pushing a given coalition either

And if ur not confident in dats either idk if i want to pit him in, but then it's hard for me to find a confident fifth

[skitter30]

Like are you more:
- actually thinking he's scum?
- thinking he's probably town but vaguely paranoid?
- have no idea

I cant tell like what you're even landing on and your answer is kinda relevant i guess

[skitter30]

Nk is probably (?) town but i dont really want them in anyways

why

You seem kinda townie for u but i'm nowhere near confident that you're town and if it fails you'd probably he my first flip aftwewards, so i'm nof sure if i should be putting u in in the first place

[skitter30]

Me/mena/irrel/std

Ok so is this a viable core, and if yes, who should the fifth be?

[skitter30]

And if ur not confident in dats either idk if i want to pit him in, but then it's hard for me to find a confident fifth

is there anything i can do to make you sorting me easier? i know the answer is probably "no", but still.

What's your ideal coalition rn?
Do u want ari in it?
Are you ok with me/mena/irrel/std?

This doesnt exactly answer your question but will give me a better sense of where you're at

(Its been a Week and I've also been playing this on like half-effort >.> i dont know everyone's reads or what's even viable ...)
(And ahhhhhhhh paranoia why am i making any of these decisions???? Are my reads wrong???? Am i putting in blatant scum???)

[skitter30]

Yes! I'm sounding more stressed than i am lol but i wasnt expecting to have to like Decide things lol

[skitter30]

Ok if std being in it isnt viable i can probably compromise on that but that is not my ideal, i really would like std in it

And honestly to be perfectly frank if it failed i would probably flip you first
Probablh something like dats -> mena -> ari -> irrel
Maybe swap mena/ari idk

[skitter30]

he probably? is viable, since i feel like everyone townreads him other than me mena and maybe mala

also expected but don't plan on that

pedit: about 85% i think?

I mean fair enuf, i'm just sharing where my suspicions would fall in thay universe

Also if it failed we'd get more time over the weekend hopefully and i could sort out my read on u properly

@ari why not std?

[skitter30]

I think he knows I'm very hard to mis-eliminate so putting me into a coalition really is limiting his own mislim opportunities and making it harder for himself post-coalition failure and I'm not sure why he would want to do that? It really does feel like he wants a coalition that will work.

Ty for writing that all out, i appreciate it

I think the above is a cogent point + there's quite a lot of depth/nuance here that i had to ask for (i.e. it doesnt seem like a read that you made up to share to look Nuanced, its more just something internally that youu were wresting with that you shared when i asked), which makes me think its more likely real

[skitter30]

I townread ari more than datisi/think datisi is more likey to be/more capable of pocketing ari than the other way around
Fire/menalque feel like my potential blindspots
Rereading menalque frantically so skitter and I can agree on a coalition before she can’t play anymore (I also might not be around at deadline)

No, no, its def the other way around imo

~
I'm kinda sus of ari/dats s/s but am not as worried about tvs anymore

Hopefully its tvt but like if it fails that's where i'm looking

I guess i can take out mena for std but i think that's less likely to be viable than the one with mena in it?

[skitter30]

2) i think its really unlikely actually that datisi would townread you in this game relatively easily as scum if he has scumread you in like every previous game. cause i think that scumtisi can be quite neurotic about that sort of thing and tbh his townread feels a little lazy in a way that i think he would just not really be brave enough to do as scum.

Good point too

[skitter30]

HURT: all
HEAL: me, ari, dats, irrel, std

[skitter30]

Not sure what’s towny about menalque anymore

Fair. He had a few takes that i dont think he does as scum tho

[skitter30]

but i'd usually get a vibe when he's being actively manipulative and trying to get things his way, and i just don't get that feeling right now

Oh this does a much better job explaining how i feel abt mena than what i jusf said!

(Hoping he hasnt learned to pocket us in his hiatus >.>)

[skitter30]

Tbf i did play in his last-scumgame where he basically got repped out for inactivity and for large portions od the game wasnt doing much

But he was also *trying* a lot more (fake guilty on his partner!)
And appealed to me a lot wrt wagons

Here he's kinda doing his own thing and just being v opinionated even if its kinda detached from everything else

I really do think that unless its like exactly mala/mk we're going wronf somewhere ....

[skitter30]

Trying more when he was present, is what i meant to say

[skitter30]

I kinda do want mena in ngl
Maybe even over irrel

Ugh

[skitter30]

I really do think that unless its like exactly mala/mk we're going wronf somewhere ....

full disclosure this made me want to convince you of irrel/std and then that made me paranoid that you said it in order to make me want to convince you

not a lasting paranoia but still

can you explain more of your thought process when you said this

it would make me feel better

If we assume i'm ok with puttinf in ari/dats
There's 7 people i'm ok+ with being in the coalition
Which seems kinda ? To me and makes me wonder if it can really be that easy

So yeah
Is mena really that unviable?
Me/ari/dats/mena/irrel?

[skitter30]

If you want my vote you need a stronger towncase on menalque

I feel like its a p decent reason to townread him at this point in his meta etc tbh

I still reallh want me/mena/irrel/std but alas we cannot all have the things we want

[skitter30]

me/you/mena/ari/irrel

Do i need to switch std for mena?

[skitter30]

What is ur final coalition again?
Amd enjoy the holiday!

[skitter30]

I think if you swap me out for fire its closer to something viable / something that might actually go thru

[skitter30]

Thanks dats, that was v helpful
You put to words a lot of what i was vibing

I can do the mena version if necessary too

[skitter30]

Just wanna say that this is lowkey frustrating given that that was my like 3rd option and i didnt want ari/dats in it at all, and if we had to have them i wanted std instead of mena

Sooooooo ya
And can we just assume nk15 is scum for hammering?

VOTE: ari but i can very easily vote dats too and i'm rethinking like all of u

Bouncing imminently for the weekend, hope everyone has a great weekend!

[skitter30]

I mean ya but we also need to find scum in the coalition so

[skitter30]

Ari/dats -> irrel -> mena for me

[skitter30]

Ya same that's also why i think we should do in coalition first / not auto-flip him

Upon hammer i felt more sus of u, but tbh its p much a tossip. I guess i have somr reasons i can point to town-dats and fewer for you.

And idk how to word this but you seemed very *OK* with this outcome and you seem to have very little of the paranoia that i'm feeling, and you didnt seem to have much of a preference of who exactly got in at all once you/dats seemed a given

~ i really should have stuck to my guns for me/irrel/mena/std ~ ...

[skitter30]

R.e. does not compute: I made it p clear that i was compromising on you/dats and that i wanted to have a coalition vote before i had to leave today
This was not my ideal but given that apparently everyone wanted you/dats i was picking out of the best of my available options given the time i had to think abt it

Also i did ask u to put std instead of dats and you shied away from that so telling me you would have sheeped me is kinda ehhhhh given that you didnt really seem into acting on that

I also said at least 4x that if you got in and it failed i would want to flip u before elo (tbf the paranoia kicked in before i thought it would)

Not really sure why/how any of this 'does not compute', i was p blatant what the outcome of a failed coalition with you/dats would be and that i didnt view this as an ideal outcome at all

[skitter30]

Me/mena/irrel/std

Ok so is this a viable core, and if yes, who should the fifth be?

we're all just guessing it's fine it's just a game

don't stress skitts pls let's make this a very low key and fun thing : )

I mean this is what i was pushing for a few days, you never seemed interested, and when i directly asked you this is what u answered

I also asked u directly about std a few posts down and you told me you wanted dats over him

[skitter30]

Skitts, enjoy Shabbat don't worry about the game. it'll still be here when you get back.

<3 yeah i'm gonna get to the rest tom night, literally answer rn

Have a great weekend everyone

[skitter30]

Literally *cant* answer rn ugh

Anyways see y'all later!

[skitter30]

Also i did ask u to put std instead of dats and you shied away from that so telling me you would have sheeped me is kinda ehhhhh given that you didnt really seem into acting on that

ok so why does scum!me decide to have dats join us on the coalition instead of STD that you wanted?

Sorry last one and then i'm going!
Once i indicated dats was where i would flip first and it was obvious you/dats were a pair basically - it always behooves scum-you to have him in there no matter his alignment once you were in there (and basically everyone but me and like mala/nk15 wanted it iirc)

If he's town there's your first misflip
If he's scum you can always argue once he's flipped that the coalition is clean

And wrt ur other post: i'm worried that i'm gonna die and that people wont listen to that and actually carry it through.
Like i want to be charitable and give you a day, but i'm also worried abt the you/dats world and i'm also worried that if you get a misflip today and i'm not here to push it ir wont happen down the line

Ok later, have a great weekend, for real :)

[skitter30]

the idea that scum me uses town!dats as the fall guy and sacrificial pawn is kind of gross.

I would not do that - I am not even sure if I could think of such a move.

Ok maybe this is fair. I am still very worried abt u/dats together tho
(I skimmed might take me a little time tonight to get to everything, but i shall)

[skitter30]

I mean my fear is that if you are mafia your partner is v deep in my townreads

As is it at least one scum is either: deep in my townreads, dats, or u
So i kinda need to evaluate that universe

And i hope u are having a good weekend :)

[skitter30]

There is only one difference between Datisi's Coalition and the Coalition you wanted. [You had STD instead of Me in your final vote thing]

That involved me being in the coalition. I know for a fact that I am town and that if your coalition would pass, then Datisi's coalition would also pass so the game would end either way.

What I can't accept is letting you kill Datisi if your coalition fails because it's your coalition in the first place.[You had made it very clear he was the first person you'd go to flip upon coalition failure] If you really want to flip Dats card, I need the coalition to be made by him; I can't accept you killing him with your preferred coalition passing I would fight you tooth and nail over that and this thread would become extremely unpleasant.

That's why I ended up voting for the coalition with me instead of STD. I know for a fact your coalition would also have failed. If you had wanted a coalition that was significantly different where this clause doesn't come into play I would've been fine with it. I think I have been extremely transparent in my willingness to support you throughout this game and to push your preferred coalition through multiple times when both myself and Datisi were off of it which makes very little sense if your coalition was already compromised to begin with. It feels incredibly strange to me that you think Fire made a good point that if I am scum, then I have to be partnered with someone already on your coalition but you've decided that Dats/Ari are the place that you want to start with.

I'm having trouble quoting th exact bit i want, sorry

So a few different thoughts:
- this is fair. If the 2 coalitions are between u gett
- while i understand that from your pov if you think std is town the two are equivalent tho. From my pov they arent tho, you can very easily be the point of failure, and a point of failure i didnt want

- you did demonstrate that you were willing to sheep me earlier, so i do take that back wrt earlier in the game/with other coalitions
At eod tho, again, my point goes back to u wanting dats/yourself over std, and that's where my suspicions are stemming from, as that's the point if difference in my mind, and nof really what i wanted, and i very strongly consider him town

- i dont really understand the bolded? Its ok for the coalition to have dats/you if dats proposed it, but not if i did? Like what's the difference? His coalition got in and mine didn't, but you arent going to protest if i try to flip him now? (I do appreciate u trying to keep the thread pleasant tho!) Maybe you're saying something different, but if ao i dont know what you're trying to say wrt std/dats/yourself

- i also kinda just want to generally say it makes me a little anxious to be sheeped/i feel a lot of responsibility and i didnt want that, so i dont think i was ever going to be like: sheep me cuz i think this is best. I would argue what i think is best but i wouldn't take u up on it

[skitter30]

I doubt I would ever think of trying to misflip him. Not only would I feel incredibly bad about it - but like it's just not something that's easy or strategically sound to do? There are many people I would find easier to misflip in this PL, I don't think there's actually a player more difficult to misflip than him.

The thought of trying to put him into the coalition to set him up as a misflip after townreading him is just not something I would do or even consider doing. It's just so bizarre that the thought would never even cross my mind - my scum game for all you rave about it is actually fairly simple - I mostly try to flip the people who are easy to flip. I don't really try to jump over a 50 foot fence when there is a nice open door somewhere else.

Ok this is fair, and it probably wasnt right for me to think this, so i apologize
Upon reflection i dont think you would try to misflip him

So i guess you/s dats/t probably doesnt make sense
But i'm still wary of s/s and/or u being partnered with irrel and mena
I think a lot of what i was thinking yesterday afternoon was a lot of kickback frustration and annoyance and paranoia and that's where my mind went immediately

Now that i've had more time to think abt it i'm kinda vacillating between u irrl dats
I kinda think mena is town still (but still a little paranoia, albeit less so)

[skitter30]

Ok, finally.
VOTE: Aristeia

Why ari over dats ?

Is it bad that i'm kinda rekindling nk15/dats here?

[skitter30]

Ok if std being in it isnt viable i can probably compromise on that but that is not my ideal, i really would like std in it

And honestly to be perfectly frank if it failed i would probably flip you first
Probablh something like dats -> mena -> ari -> irrel
Maybe swap mena/ari idk

this is what you said to Datisi.

So in my mind you wanted your coalition [Skitter/Irrel/Mena/Dats/STD] but you would flip Dats

if it failed

. I can't accept you trying to flip Dats for

your coalition failing

the only thing I did was put myself in for STD because I knew it was functionally the same thing as

your coalition

except it would pass if STD was mafia and it also is the coalition Datisi wanted.

Ok so just so i understand: you were ok with dats being in it and me wanting to flip him if that was the coalition dats was proposing?

[skitter30]

Just wanna say that this is lowkey frustrating given that that was my like 3rd option and i didnt want ari/dats in it at all, and if we had to have them

i wanted std instead of mena

Ari/dats -> irrel ->

mena

for me

skitt, how do these two posts fit together?

These are kinda like two different things in my mind, but i will try to explain
My point of failure for the coalition is like ari/dats
I dont think the issue was mena being in there, but given ari/dats i had a stronger townread on std and would have preferred him over mena
You can kinda add an arrow after mena pointing to std in the second quote to explain my read hierarchy

[skitter30]

Ok that's fair, thank you
UNVOTE:

I think like i said i was in sort of reactionary frustration/paranoia mode yesterday (again sorry this probably wasnt fair of me)

I'm not as sus of you now and have to sort of rethink this to figure out where scum is

Like i said i'm probably keeping mena out of it but otherwise idk rn

[skitter30]

also skitt when you're back i do want a kind of an elaboration on 1189 - how do you see the gamestate at the moment of the coalition forming that you think it's viable for ari to do this? like i said in 1201 why i don't really think it's realistic for ari to try to do that but i want to hear your pov i guess

I think i answered but lmk if u wanf something else

[skitter30]

Like i guess i dont understand your point around the difference between 1 and 2 scum being in. Isnt 2 scum being in better?

why were you thinking it's better for scum to have 2 in rather than 1?

I think that's a given, no? If we find one scum in the coaliton people are gonna think rhat's clean and start looking out of it (std even said he didnt think of that possibility iirc)

[skitter30]

i just woke up from my nap

i had a dream that me/skitter/dats were drinking at a bar

I snoozing on Datisi's shoulder because I had a bit too much to drink and his shoulder smelled nice

Skitter was fighting with the waiter because she had too much to drink and he wanted her to drink this giant pitcher of water and she was not having any of that.

Not terribly useful but just something cute I wanted to share. <3

Thats v cute thanks for sharing

[skitter30]

Ok i'm very indecisive and need to like Think things over but rn i'm leaning towards dats/irrel with a healthy amt of paranoia for the other 2, there is a fair chance this will change significantly by, like, when i wake up in the morning

[skitter30]

1. I dont think that's such a big issue tho, because again once we're found the scum people wont be scrutinizing the remainder so strongly
2. I mean a lot of people in that coalition were townreading each other (i.e. were widely townread), so i dont think it would be super hard to townread each other in this game
3. Ok this is a fair point
4. True but looking at this pl. And the 4/5 split here, i dont think it would be super hard for, say, scum-me me to be very influential after flipping scum-dats lets say, and i think you can swap those names around and add you/irrel to either position too

So i dont find this super compelling
I'm not saying we have 2 in but i dont think it would be super difficult for these possible permutations of the scumteam and i dont see a reason why it would be

I also disagree with ur last point as well: i think a game where both scum are fairly highly townread would have an easier time than a game like you're proposing

[skitter30]

I mean fair but basically everyone wanted him in and was townreading him, do u think he would have declined putting himself in as scum?

Like i'm not sure he's pushing himself in in that universe, he i think towards eod was close to a given.

Pedit i was putting random names in each spot, i could have just as easily written scum-you
My point was i dont think the surviving scum of those 4 names inherently loses influence by virtue of not being out od the coalition

[skitter30]

I dont think he worked that hard tho, ans he made ir p clear he was planning on putting up a fight
Either way this is kinda a moot point, i'm not saying there are 2 scum, but rather that i dont think its impossible/unlikely

[skitter30]

Why do u think mena?

[skitter30]

where skitter was very much open to the idea of ari being in a coalition, or like slowly nudging in that direction

This is reductive and not my actual position

I made it *very* clear that i didn't want ari in, and that i only ultimately voted her as a compromise so that i'd be voting for something semi- viable at deadline.

[skitter30]

yes
(1) why do i bring up the game where he loltunneled his own partners first
(2) this universe would be 100x easier to win if i don't shut down the nk15 townreads in the beginning but instead scumread enough other players to get him into the coalition, flip him, then carry myself; as opposed to getting myself into the coalition and banking on winning by flipping 3 out of skitt/irrel/mena/ari before myself
(3) i don't have the wim to play like this with a deadbeat partner who's doing nothing but tunnelling me in thread
(4) i'm not scum

1. Dont know, but iirc didnt ari bring it up already?
2. Uhhhhj not sure that would actually be an easier gameplan / doable? Like you can say that's what you would have done but its sufficiently different from how tue day actually played out that i'm not sure you could have made the day happen that way ...
3. I mean ok fair
4. Idk that, and it seems a reasonable explanation for nk15's actions
5. Your post explaining why you didnt scumread nk15 for the hammer gave me the creeps

[skitter30]

yes
(1) why do i bring up the game where he loltunneled his own partners first
(2) this universe would be 100x easier to win if i don't shut down the nk15 townreads in the beginning but instead scumread enough other players to get him into the coalition, flip him, then carry myself; as opposed to getting myself into the coalition and banking on winning by flipping 3 out of skitt/irrel/mena/ari before myself
(3) i don't have the wim to play like this with a deadbeat partner who's doing nothing but tunnelling me in thread
(4) i'm not scum

1. Dont know, but iirc didnt ari bring it up already?
2. Uhhhhj not sure that would actually be an easier gameplan / doable? Like you can say that's what you would have done but its sufficiently different from how tue day actually played out that i'm not sure you could have made the day happen that way ...
3. I mean ok fair
4. Idk that, and it seems a reasonable explanation for nk15's actions
5. Your post explaining why you didnt scumread nk15 for the hammer gave me the creeps

[skitter30]

so basically what you're saying is: you townread std over all of the current coalition members (excluding yourself)?

Yes

[skitter30]

like i was asking how did you think she was gonna accomplish that / why did you think it was a viable path for scum!her to do tha

I dont know, i hadnt thought that far in advance but that was the first thought that paranoia-popped into my head upon failure

When if wad pointed out that didnt make much sense, i retracted

[skitter30]

anyway when you're around, skitter, let's jam because i feel like the only reasons you suspect me are (1) awkward interaction with ari back on like page 0.5 (2) ~*paranoia*~ and like. those are not really good reasons.

K. I have a busy morning but i'll be around this afternoon

But i dont really have great reasons, i just townread you the least and now i need to find scum in this group so

I am open (and considering) to the possibility of it being someone else, but you (or ari) being scum makes my worldview the least wrong so that's where i'm starting

[skitter30]

I made it *very* clear that i didn't want ari in, and that i only ultimately voted her as a compromise so that i'd be voting for something semi- viable at deadline.

i mean yes you made it very clear you did not want ari in, but you also kept hinting that you could i guess maybe vote there and you did approximately nothing to push std into a coalition so...

i have to pretend to be a contributing member to society for a bit but i'll write out a bigger post later today

i mean it was very non-ideal but i wanted to be voting for something viable
like do you think i should have not thought about including ari and stuck with a coalition that i know would not have gone through? i only started seriously considering putting her in like late thursday afternoon-ish. given my reads, how do you think i ought to have approached the coalition vote eod here?
and i didn't do 'approximately nothing to push std into a coalition', ty.

wrt nk15:

but instead scumread enough other players to get him into the coalition, flip him, then carry myself

a) if you're scum with him, and one of you need to go in, i think it's better for you to try to get in than what you're proposing, which is to: purposefully put him in, bus him, and hard carry afterwards? like you're telling me that this is actually how you approach this game from the getgo??? i don't think that's likely at all ... from the beginning you were way more townread than him, and i don't htink anyone was seriouisly calling for your head other than me (i.e. so it's not like you had significant reason to believe you would get flipped first if you got in), and at the point i said that nk15 wasn't viable to get in at all.
b) again i'm dubious that you even could make that happen to begin with given the gamestate. in a vaccuum you're way more likely to get into the coalition than him always, and i tbh i think you'd have to burn *a lot* of cred to get him in. i'm kinda incredulous that you think that this could be a viable plan for a you/nk15 team

he's also being sus as anything today, the hammer doesn't make sense given his reads (he voted for 2 people to be in the coalition that he spent the entire day1 saying were svs), he hasn't explained why he did that, and he's now trying to introduce other scumteams

(5) if the scumteam is me/nk, then nk is never getting flipped before me. so you'll only be looking for nk AFTER i'm confirmed to flip red. and i make that post explaining why nk is not lockscum when he's never getting voted before me because ???

i don't understand this point and why you wouldn't do this

[skitter30]

Day 2 has strengthened my townread on Aristeia and my scumread on mena
Datisi and skitter are each, if scum, knocking it out of the park.

i'm very, very unlikely to be voting mena today, i'd vote u before him

[skitter30]

where skitter was very much open to the idea of ari being in a coalition, or like slowly nudging in that direction

This is reductive and not my actual position

I made it *very* clear that i didn't want ari in, and that i only ultimately voted her as a compromise so that i'd be voting for something semi- viable at deadline.

I don't actually know which coalition you wanted that excluded both me and datisi.

as far as I remember you wanted irrel/yourself/mena/std but you didn't have a fifth?

that is correct. i never got to a satisfactory fifth
i was lowky thinking fire but i never fully got there/i don't think i voiced that

[skitter30]

I don't think you quite understand how to play mafia alignment if you think a mafia skitter would be content to sit still and poke/prod

without shaping the game state towards mis-eliminating townies because that's *literally* her win condition if she is mafia.

As for why skitter would push me -> like mala/nk15 have both indicated they thought I was at the top of their scum list[which makes me viable for being eliminated], she's a town leader and she already set up a trajectory to push me for "paranoia" and being the failure point on her coalition - it allows her to push through this day phase without doing meaningful re-evaluation of her original coalition.

The goal of being scum is to kill people who are town, one of the central tenets of that is to have a believable push progression; it is fairly trivial and simple for her to continue her push against me, it is far simpler and cleaner for her to do than to flip a read on say irrel or mena because that would be complicated - she has to actually push someone inside the coalition as being mafia.

i mean tbf i'm kinda unlikely to be flipped today at all going into the day
by default therefore someone else is so i therefor don't think scum-me needs to exert much energy to force a particular flip or not. like unless you think there's 2 scum in the coalition (and apparently you don't) i don't think i need to take direct/forceful action to make the bolded happen coming into the day as scum here
also idk why i lolswitch the trajectory from dats to you, that's not how scum-me rolls

(also @fire not sure it makes sense for scum-me to end up on std vs mena if i'm partnered with mena? i could be wrong but i don't think that's what i would do)

[skitter30]

i think specifically in the position she is in in the current gamestate with the current level of suspicion on her she would be more likely to lose standing by making that push and there's very little she could gain from it, and i think she as scum would know that

the gain would be eliminating me, it would be [1/3] of the way to winning for her.

i mean so would eliminating ... town-dats
(or town-irrel or town-mena ...)
(and flipping irrel or dats would make it easier to flip you later, no?)

[skitter30]

and when NK15 votes me (this really should be kind of expected because he's been tunneling me all game for garbage reasons) - she seems surprised? Which is kind of ????? because in her original post about voting me she is basically pegging the scum team as me/nk15 which makes sense due to his meta of derptunneling his teammate so why is she even asking him why he's voting for me ???

no, no, not surprised, just wanted him to say in his own words why he picked you over dats
and it made me think him/dats was more likely
i also don't think he ever answered that

i also kinda said i was playing this half-effort -> a lot of details were not at the forefront of my mind at any given moment

[skitter30]

if you think that her actions so far this phase have meaningfully advanced the gamestate toward a goal of eliminating you and remaining as a town leader afterwards then tbh i think you're misreading the gamestate. i think they've done the opposite if anything

I mean she doesn't know how the push will go before she makes it?

like everything involves risk. You're townreading her for her push failing. This is kind of similar to Prism trying to push me and getting shoved back and doing a reflexive stepback.

Mafia do not know which pushes will work when they try them - they can only make an educated guess and try their best.

(fwiw i don't think i push you here as scum. i think i *would* have a decent idea for how it'd go, and that it wouldn't work, and i don't htink i'd have tried it at all. take that as you will tho)