Mini Normal 2272: Flash Games | Game Over!

[Crescent]

VOTE: gamma emerald

long time no see to you!

scorpius instawagon is funny

Not really.. lol

Third or fourth vote here has fairly high scum equity. First vote less so.

Also... I'm a kitty. Meow.

[Crescent]

I did find that... Curious. I wanted to see if you'd catch on your own that your vote... Didn't make sense compared to who you were quoting and such.

I guess I'll chalk it up to a mistake.

[Crescent]

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

[Crescent]

@meuh

So...I have a way if random voting in every single game I play. Scorpious wanted me to break that pattern because they didn't want to go to 4 votes so quickly, but I ain't breaking my method for them. You can call it shutting down the conversation, but my last game had scorpious in it and they know elegantly what I was going to do

You seem overly worried about how you look.

VOTE: Meuh

Get plays like this all the time. Hard to find it AI, especially so early.. He has… quirks..

....Can he also go Plus Ultra?

[Crescent]

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

Elaborate?

The first post is generally NAI, unless it's a new player or on a new player. The self-vote is NAI at least to me because I don't know the player.

Vanya snap-voting for the self-vote has some scum equity, but also makes sense from a town dicking around since there does tend to be a joking stigma against self-votes.. The 4th vote took time and has thought behind it because it quoted a post, but also didn't say anything in the process.

If any vote is a "scum hop on" vote, it's likely that fourth one.

[Crescent]

New players tend to see things as very black and white like above.. But Vanya specifically said he's an alt.

Is playing on an alt common practice here?

[Crescent]

I've never actually played mafia with anyone on an alt before.

Anti-town play happens from town, unfortunately. I've had my moments of it.

Vanya's speaking in absolutes as an experienced player strikes me as the kind of player who's either a stubborn town who thinks this is a non-issue or opportunistic scum who struck really quickly. It's a matter of figuring out which.

Gun to my head I'd say the former is more likely if I had to make a snap decision.

[Crescent]

Also... I'm a kitty. Meow.

its a shame, you'd be my top tr if it wasn't for this!

Meow.

[Crescent]

It depends on the kind of player he is. Some players stubbornly cling to their meta and don't really care about anyone challenging it. In the most recent game I hosted, two town players had roles that conflicted with each other night 1, and one of them spent the entire game, which ended day 5, calling the other scum because he was seeing things too much in "black and white".

MM's post is very on point though about the "opportunistic scum" angle that I pointed out could be in play earlier... I didn't elaborate, and he did, and I like that from him.

[Crescent]

It depends on the kind of player he is. Some players stubbornly cling to their meta and don't really care about anyone challenging it. In the most recent game I hosted, two town players had roles that conflicted with each other night 1, and one of them spent the entire game, which ended day 5, calling the other scum because he was seeing things too much in "black and white".

MM's post is very on point though about the "opportunistic scum" angle that I pointed out could be in play earlier... I didn't elaborate, and he did, and I like that from him.

Yeah, both Vanya's vote and the response to being questioned on it very much feels like opportunistic scum
You make a fair point about the way different people view the game, Vanya could hold those views as a townie, not unrealistic; people are stubborn.

What does bother me is the fact that Vanya's view of self-voting lead to the immediate response of voting for Scorpious, not actual reasoning as to why Scorpious is scum, just the link from the self-vote -> voting Scorpious which is off-putting
It fulfills scum agenda very well and seems like the sort of vote a mafia player would like to cast early; who can be suspicious of them for voting on someone who's already self-voting?
Don't like it


VOTE: Vanya

Voting someone for anti-town play isn't voting someone and calling them scum, though. I'm not sure it really means anything so early in a game.

The vote does feel a *little* worse to me in hindsight by his reaction, as his vote felt like a more jokey potential town perspective than a super serious one, but I get more "stubborn" vibes than anything out of his response to being prodded over it.. He comes off as believing what he's saying shouldn't be an issue.

The most curious thing I find out of all of it is.. His vote is still there.

Ok so... Question for Uncle Vanya.

Why is your vote still there?

[Crescent]

I also think its funny that people will blow up their motives for them.

89 92
I will add these to the gallery.

maybe I'm dumb and can't really see that much in two short sentences. my gut is softly telling me someone is piggybacking off this for hunting creds. I'll get back to you if I ever pinpoint who.

Maybe they are just scumhunting?

While that's true, some things rub me off as forced. Y'all spew "stubborn is subjective!", then two lines later start sprinkling scummotives on top of it anyway. And it's kinda frustrating since a handful of y'all are doing it, cuz that makes it real hard to feel who's actually forcing it. :/

There's no way of knowing which one it is yet, and no harm in exploring both potential trains of thought.

All he did was draw further attention to his stance in his post 60 and 63 responses. The thing I question most about him being scum is does scum act like that this early in the game. This is why I want to know why his vote is still there without his reason for putting it on in the first place.

I'm used to games that are... Five times shorter than this game is going to be, and even by my standards it feels like an early gesture that speaks more to the character of the player than the alignment. This may be a goodplace to look back to on a later day to get a better scope of the players who are speaking now once we have some flips later on.

[Crescent]

Let's say hypothetically that Koba put a vigilante into the game despite hating vigilantes

And let's say hypothetically I was said vigilante

I would hypothetically shoot fugitivemoose

Moose's entry looks like a check in post that makes no attempt to actually play the game, and is merely made to appear like it is engaging.

Definitely some scum points there.

[Crescent]

It depends on the kind of player he is. Some players stubbornly cling to their meta and don't really care about anyone challenging it. In the most recent game I hosted, two town players had roles that conflicted with each other night 1, and one of them spent the entire game, which ended day 5, calling the other scum because he was seeing things too much in "black and white".

MM's post is very on point though about the "opportunistic scum" angle that I pointed out could be in play earlier... I didn't elaborate, and he did, and I like that from him.

Is this about me?
I am only stunningly clinging onto my method of random voting

I've never played a game on this forum before. It was just a very recent example that came to mind of stubbornness that happened to come from a town player and could've resulted in a throw.

Tangential but I don't want to swallow thoughts this early and make it a habit.

[Crescent]

scorpious and crescent seem town rn

Why?

Gotta show your work.

[Crescent]

scorpious and crescent seem town rn

Why?

Gotta show your work.

I feel like this could be a scum post. Again, could be.

Taking advantage of getting town leaned to call out the leaner for reasons why..

I can easily see the tactic being used, it’s a very town question to ask, but the timing could indicate alignment.


I’m just talking my thoughts, nothing substantial..

It's also just as easy for a scum player to randomly call two town players town in order to buddy up to them. Reads are ultimately empty unless they are given substance. This goes double when said read is on a player who is completely new to a community.

I'm also biased, as players who don't know me often tend to scum lean me early.

Anyways, the difference between the one post of Titus and Moose is fairly apparent.

Moose came in with uselessness and an excuse for giving no content. It was the definition of the "I'm here" post.

Titus came in with why he hadn't posted yet and the promise of content *today*. Theres a lot more potential town vibe from this compared to above.

[Crescent]

I can’t wait to see how Vanya reacts to the wagon on them.

Andres popping back in as a barely-active-so-far with a splinter vote on another barely-active-so-far just to comment on the Vanya lynch with no content reeks.

[Crescent]

I feel like Vanya is trying to lurk out the pressure on him, but with 24 hour prod timers it'll be a bit difficult.

Hmm that could be the case, I suppose.
I think with the way Vanya responded to pressure, they could be wanting to avoid attention on them and just let momentum dissipate.
(bless the 24 hour prod timers )

however, I don't know if this is an assumption to make just based on someone just not posting for a while.
i like to assume scum are actually yknow, trying to play the game?
losing to lurkscum sounds lame
maybe i have too much faith though, it's a fairly common tactic isn't it?

One of the worst feelings is losing to a scum team that didn't do anything while town cannibalized themself all game

It is a pretty common tactic to just lurk out early pressure, but tbh it almost always works. I almost never see initial wagons stick unless that player reacts really really badly.

There is a mentality among many that the first real train of the game is one of the safest places for scum to be, because town will inevitably overthink it given enough time and just forget to go back.

Stubbornness is a good way to reaction fish (I know because I've done it myself), but not showing up for 26+ hours directly after only serves to slowly dilute said reactions and runs contrary to it aka it doesn't really "jive". I still have an open query as to why his vote is still on Scorpious that I would still like an answer to.... Though he's not the only person from that original pile with a vote lingering there.

The votes on Scorpious that had scum equity are still sitting on him, and both players have not done much else other than get countertrained for said votes by a collage of people (Though Scorpious himself has not voted either). There is pretty good potential that at least one is scum, and is just leaving the vote there, hoping it just falls off our radar before they vote someone else for a substantive reason later. Likelihood is lower that they're both scum, though, since scum generally doesn't want to go 3-4 on an early train. The "Comedy Option" is that they're both scum... With Scorpious. (Do you guys do the whole "Comedy Option" thing reserved for wild spur of the most conspiracy theory nonsense?)

Remind me! 10 pages to say a thought I have. Want to see if after some more posting it holds true

This was about 19 hours ago. Almost in prod territory too. We're also probably not hitting page 10 for another day, so we should be seeing something before then.

So I'll ask you too: Why is your vote still there?

[Crescent]

Titus has been prodded as well as her 128 is not game advancing content

Oh damn, I kinda like this

Though NM is screwed if he replaces in at some point lmao

This is weird, why would you have an opinion on a mod message? Are you happy Titus’ content didn’t count for some reason? Does the rule excite you?

And why envoke NM? I don’t get it. This prompted me to look at your iso and there isn’t much there.

What is NM, for the record?

[Crescent]

Abt moose in general, I couldn't jump on em' too fast for newbposting, but I'd like more substance from that slot.

@FugitiveMoose tell us your thoughts on the game pls, ty.

All the talk is fluff disguise as being something of substance. Not a scum indicator, just not much to go off of.

Fluff disguised as being something of substance is how I would describe you so far.

[Crescent]

It's how I play. I generally don't vote just for the sake for pressure unless it's late in the day. If this were 48 hours, I would have been on Vanya a few hours before day ended to pressure him to appear, but I generally don't vote people while I'm questioning them.

I kind of agree with whoever said they'd vig shoot Moose right now though. Not getting town vibes there at all.

...But he also has like 7 days to change my mind, and there's no value to splintering on him right now while both vote leaders are idling. I have no plans to let anyone idle out, but I find people tend to be vote happy and my conservative approach helps provide more stability.

My last full town game took 4 days and I placed 5 votes all game, two of them only because people tried to jedi mind trick themselves off the correct vote in the very last minutes of day 2 and 3. My last scum game took 5 days and I placed 3.

I remember all arguments I've made in any given game and don't contradict myself unless I'm desperate. Reading into the "why" and "when" of when I do vote is what's important for figuring me out.

...I do have a tendency to ramble and wall post when I'm posting from my phone at 3am. I don't even intend for it to happen, it just does.

[Crescent]

In post 119, geraintm wrote:
Remind me! 10 pages to say a thought I have. Want to see if after some more posting it holds true



This was about 19 hours ago. Almost in prod territory too. We're also probably not hitting page 10 for another day, so we should be seeing something before then.

So I'll ask you too: Why is your vote still there?

weekends/bank holidays will always be tough for me to post as much as the week.
anwaysy, we will get to ten pages on Day 1, so i'll chip in at some point later.

and i have not see anywhere else to put a vote yet - why should i move it? it isnt doing any harm

Fair.

I just wanted to see if you'd say it.

[Crescent]

I generally don't vote just for the sake for pressure unless it's late in the day

wow, just seen this - calling me out for not having moved my vote and you saying you do the exact same thing.

naughty point for you.

No? I said I generally don't place votes to begin with. I've never placed an early game joke vote. I'm used to early game joke votes coming off within a few hours. It's generally considered bad form to leave them hanging.

Then again a "few hours" to my norm is like a whole day here.

[Crescent]

Actually to simplify it more it's rare I place any vote at all that I don't perceive has any value. With Vanya effectively holding the game hostage through inactivity right now, I feel it's pretty well pointless to be placing a vote on anyone. Of course if he tries to idle out, he dies.

As it stands, he is currently the only person I would vote right now, until he reappears to respond to the pressure and provide content. This effectively means my vote is already there without needing to be trigger happy about it.

People sometimes accidentally (or "accidentally") hammer early. My vote isn't going to be a contributor to that unless I'm in a particularly saucy mood. My overall mood does affect the way I play, especially on day 1.

[Crescent]

With Vanya effectively holding the game hostage through inactivity right now, I feel it's pretty well pointless to be placing a vote on anyone. Of course if he tries to idle out, he dies.

As it stands, he is currently the only person I would vote right now, until he reappears to respond to the pressure and provide content.

I feel like vanya isn't the only one guilty of this, tho. maybe they're the greatest offender, but moose and andres are sort of in the same boat to me. I had assumed you agreed considering your comments on them.[/quo]e]
I've well established I don't like Moose, but also that I don't see the value in splintering with 7 days left while we're waiting for Vanya.

[Crescent]

VOTE: Vanya
Consolidating but moose still kinda sus

Moose did the "Hello guys" then dipped.

Literally null until they post more.

Which they have done.

And it was not town feeling at all.

[Crescent]

Sorry, I chose to leave Taxes to the last minute. And yesterday was the literal last day for where I live.

For my Vote of Scorpious, it was a semi-serious scum read. Obviously town can do anti-town stuff jokingly but it was RVS, and RVS is best used to make wagons and generate content. I found something and went with it.

I'm mostly scumreading Monkeyman, and townreading Carcalilly.

Most of Monkeyman's interactions feel like 1-off comments that aren't meant to discern alignments.

VOTE: MonkeyMan

Are there any specific comments that stand out to you?

[Crescent]

VOTE: Vanya

I was considering my options.

To be fair, ISOing you shows that Vanya actually has a point

Almost every single one of your posts is one line of uselessness. You have *one* post that's more than 1 sentence long, and you have a fair amount of them but they don't say much.

Dislike calling a genuine critique of play as OMGUS and immediately declaring him scum when you've done little on his wagon.

You voted him offhandedly in post #103, then reappeared whole day later in #155 to call him "probably scum". That's it. Vanya voting you barely even registers on the OMGUS scale. It just makes you come off as overly defensive and trying to shut down his read on you before people have a chance to listen to it.

[Crescent]

Most of Monkeyman's interactions feel like 1-off comments that aren't meant to discern alignments.

Right here.

This is an *accurate* portrayal of your play so far.

[Crescent]

Just because my posts are short doesn't make them useless. I've already caught scum, for example. If you want to wagon me over short posts, go ahead.

Most of them had no value and in no way contributed. If I had ISOed you first I'd have prodded you for the same reason he voted you

The one who's acting like "caught scum" right now... Is you. You're straight up shutting him down without a response using a barely valid case of OMGUS as a shield to just go "lol we caught scum guys".

Massively failing the vibe check.

[Crescent]

I can pressure someone without voting for them. There's not exactly a lot of posts to go on so far, but from what I've seen you are obvscum.

Funny, I'm starting to think the same thing towards you~

[Crescent]

I can pressure someone without voting for them. There's not exactly a lot of posts to go on so far, but from what I've seen you are obvscum.

Funny, I'm starting to think the same thing towards you~

[Crescent]

Well, we all have a right to our opinion but I disagree. Why are you defending his scummy behavior?

Because your behavior is far scummier.

I have 0 interest in lynching him right now based on your reaction to him.

[Crescent]

Well, we all have a right to our opinion but I disagree. Why are you defending his scummy behavior?

Because your behavior is far scummier.

I have 0 interest in lynching him right now based on your reaction to him.

Yeah it's called scumhunting buddy. Nothing he has done is towny so far.

Funny, that's not what it looks like. It looks like defensiveness. It looks like you're calling someone scum solely because they voted you for a legitimately good reason, because you never previously indicted being so sure he's scum.

[Crescent]

OMGUS isn't legitimate. It's saving your butt. And I'm obviously not sure, but I'm a lot more comfortable with him than anyone else.

There you go spouting OMGUS like some kind of mystic shield again. The reason he voted you is valid. I've already said I would have come prodding you had I noticed the very thing he voted you for.

The only one applying OMGUS right now is *you*.

[Crescent]

OMGUS isn't legitimate. It's saving your butt. And I'm obviously not sure, but I'm a lot more comfortable with him than anyone else.

There you go spouting OMGUS like some kind of mystic shield again. The reason he voted you is valid. I've already said I would have come prodding you had I noticed the very thing he voted you for.

The only one applying OMGUS right now is *you*.

I voted him first, so it can't be OMGUS on my part.

Your logic is extremely flimsy and you are taking his side because you don't like my posting style.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I'm just going to put this on the record.

I heavily lean Vanya Town/MM Scum based on MM's reactions at the moment. I'm already sick of seeing him spout "OMGUS" like it actually means anything here. He comes off as broken-record scum who doesn't think there's a case against him.

It's less about Vanya himself. I don't get any super town vibes from him or anything, but MM's giving me billions of scumvibes, and I don't think he gives those off if the two are scum together.

[Crescent]

Just because my posts are short doesn't make them useless. I've already caught scum, for example. If you want to wagon me over short posts, go ahead.

Oh, you did?

Because of an “omgus” vote?

He just isn't giving me town vibes. Maybe I was reaching a little bit. It's called exerting pressure.

That’s not exerting pressure, that’s just being laughable about it. I wouldn’t even consider it pressure if it was on me it’s such a bad push.

I do appreciate the slight step back, but that raises other questions.

Like how do you go from “so sure” to walking it back in like 5 posts?

Ding ding ding~

[Crescent]

I'm still pretty sure. I just realize why others don't think it's maybe such a strong argument. I was trying to get a reaction from him and his reaction was to OMGUS me, and that definately wasn't the reaction I was hoping for from town.

OMGUS OMGUS OMGUS

Do you have anything real to say?

[Crescent]

No, I call it panicking scum who didn't expect to be blasted so quickly for it, who didn't even bother responding to the other person who just critiqued them.

[Crescent]

Yeah I had a valid point about his saying that self voting is scummy, his reaction to me calling him out on it was bad. He could have actually responded to my comments, instead he just votes me.

...For a LEGITIMATELY

GOOD

REASON


You are acting like he blind voted you with no reasoning.

[Crescent]

Yeah I had a valid point about his saying that self voting is scummy, his reaction to me calling him out on it was bad. He could have actually responded to my comments, instead he just votes me.

...For a LEGITIMATELY

GOOD

REASON


You are acting like he blind voted you with no reasoning.

It's not a good reason. This is my posting style if you've done any meta on me.

I've been saying I agree with the reasons behind his vote for like an hour. Why did it take you this long to say this instead of "OMGUS"?

I know 0 people in this game as this is my first game in this forum. Whether or not it's even a valid defense I have no idea. I would have to leave that to other people.

[Crescent]

The OMGUS was the most important point. Me posting in short posts doesn't validate an OMGUS vote.

He is wanting to play victim rather than actually scumhunt.

Poor me, poor me, someone is actually calling me out on my anti town statements and I'm going to just vote them rather than explain myself to them.

I don't believe his vote on you was OMGUS unless it's proven that the reason he voted you was bad. Your pressure on him, like Scorpious said, was not even worth noting.

[Crescent]

Voting someone on their posting style is a bad vote.

The posting style he voted you for is more likely to come from scum than it is from town. The appearance of being constantly there without really contributing anything is exactly what many scum players aim for.

[Crescent]

I'm not ISOing a past game while already in a game. That's a great way to get my reads mixed up.

All you needed to do was say that over an hour ago because I don't have the frame of reference to know whether you're BSing it or not, and I have plenty of time to find out from other players. Vanya as an established player would obviously know your style better than I do.

[Crescent]

I don't think I've played with Vanya unless he's an alt.

Vanya has already said he is an alt. He came off to me as someone voting you because the way you were posting made him think you were scum.

[Crescent]

It's possible. Maybe I'm being to hard on him. Andres' lurking is not impressing me so far, either.

Wouldn't him being an alt make him *more* likely to be "OMGUSing" you, since according to you, he should already know how you post?

It feels a bit odd that having it re-established he's an alt would derive a "maybe I'm overreacting" response.

[Crescent]

Howdy. Looking at this now. Generally slammed on weekends

Meowdy.

This is... Kind of exactly what you said yesterday.

[Crescent]

I was about to note that Vanya only had one post since his vote on MM and I thought it was more, then that shows up.

I don't know how much high content you're expecting on page 10. I'm just trying to move the game forward.

Surely you have something else you can provide to move the game forward other than "Vanya is OMGUSing scum"?

[Crescent]

VOTE: geratim

Wagons ahoy!

I have nothing really good to say about gera, but why the quick vote?

[Crescent]

Voting someone on their posting style is a bad vote.

DWLee has almost the same posting style but has still done stuff. It's not really how short your posts are, just that they seemed like you were speaking for the sake of it.

Honestly outside of sussing Moose with half his posts, it isn't much.

But, it still feels more like "game advancing content" than most of MM's posts were.

[Crescent]

Do people think OMGUS is scummy here oh no

OMGUS can be scummy. If he had just blind voted MM with little to no content, that's true OMGUS.

[Crescent]

I can pressure someone without voting for them. There's not exactly a lot of posts to go on so far, but from what I've seen you are obvscum.

I will not pay any attention to people's pressure unless it is backed up by a vote, it is just posturing otherwise. If it ain't jn a vote count I will totally forget it ever existed

This is very short sighted.

Comes off more as arrogant to me than scummy. Some people play like only the votes matter and the arguments don't. Werewolf especially is full of such players.

[Crescent]

Oh on that we agree.

[Crescent]

It's how I play. I generally don't vote just for the sake for pressure unless it's late in the day. If this were 48 hours, I would have been on Vanya a few hours before day ended to pressure him to appear, but I generally don't vote people while I'm questioning them.

I kind of agree with whoever said they'd vig shoot Moose right now though. Not getting town vibes there at all.

...But he also has like 7 days to change my mind, and there's no value to splintering on him right now while both vote leaders are idling. I have no plans to let anyone idle out, but I find people tend to be vote happy and my conservative approach helps provide more stability.

My last full town game took 4 days and I placed 5 votes all game, two of them only because people tried to jedi mind trick themselves off the correct vote in the very last minutes of day 2 and 3. My last scum game took 5 days and I placed 3.

I remember all arguments I've made in any given game and don't contradict myself unless I'm desperate. Reading into the "why" and "when" of when I do vote is what's important for figuring me out.

...I do have a tendency to ramble and wall post when I'm posting from my phone at 3am. I don't even intend for it to happen, it just does.

Is there anything specific about me that you would justify a day one vig kill? Or just hunch.

It's one thing to vote/talk on a gut feeling versus trying to cast shade on someone in order to persuade a vig to use an action.

Your comments feels more like town brownie points attention than substance.

I find it highly amusing that the person who's given the least content all game calls out the person who's probably given the most based off of a half-lucid post she made at 3am where she rambled.

Really speaks to Moose not actually paying attention to the game.

[Crescent]

Speaking of lacking content, I would still like Titus to actually explain that vote they made.

[Crescent]

Oh and for the record I'd almost much never shoot night 1 as vig unless I both expected to get shot and had a firm scumread on someone. Just based on how I've posted so far I'd say that should actually be a pretty obvious extrapolation.

But that doesn't mean I can't see where the mentality to just shoot you is coming from. Your posts all feel like fakespew.

[Crescent]

I kinda feel like waiting for something more substantial out of Titus and Moose is why the game slowed down a bit in the first place.

And we know Moose hasn't really read the game. It's pretty easy to tell too. Take me for example. I have.. Maybe 3-4 dozen posts now? His only comment towards me stems from the glaringly obvious wall I made at 3am that was too large to miss. He has yet to comment on anything actually productive, and strikes me as simply not caring to play the game yet. He just posted a wall of his own that said nothing.

I have no doubt he hates day 1. What's tough about a situation like this is figuring out if he's town who's being generally unhelpful on "principle" or if he's scum riding day 1 hatred as an excuse.

I've seen this kind of situation go both ways.

[Crescent]

Really the only thing Gera has said that's content is he doesn't think Scorpious is scum. Kind just said "I'll let everyone else do the work" and avoided discussing Moose or MM,

The interesting thing is, his last post was 9 minutes before Scorpious' question... And Scorpious voted him for not answering it only 5 hours later. it hasn't been long enough that I would say Gera is openly avoiding giving an answer.

[Crescent]

Oh.

Oh he's definitely been avoiding giving an answer, yes. I feel like I'm losing some of my absorption as time goes on.

We have... Six days left?

[Crescent]

MonkeyMan576 has been prodded

I had been wondering if he was near prod territory.

Very little has happened over the last 24 hours.

[Crescent]

Yeah it's been pretty dead overall. I would support Ger, Moose, or Andres wagons at this point.

I don’t disagree 2 of 3… still haven’t flipped the scum switch on Moose.

I remember more of Moose's posts than I remember of Andres's posts, and Moose has notably contributed nothing to the game.

So on that thought I ISOed Andres again.

Voting MM after I pressured MM is... Essentially the only thing Andres has actually done this game. He has 8 posts, and maybe two of them are actually content, one of which justifies his MM vote the post after he made it. MM only playing the "player meta" defense when it sank in I have no idea what he's like as a player strikes me as something that could've very much been doomed to fail if he was scum. It doesn't make me call him town, but I'm not calling him scum either, and I can see how his train of thought could have processed from a town angle.

MM is also on Gera under the slight pressure, not Moose, when Moose would be a really easy, or as you said, "opportune", vote. As such, I'm not big on MM votes right now, compared to a player like Gera who has done virtually nothing and is avoiding questions, and I'm not big on Andres popping back in to piggyback off of my MM pressure when it's the only thing he's done so far.

I would certainly go Andres before I go for Moose at this juncture. I would go for Gera too. Moose being obtuse could just be Moose being obtuse. It doesn't necessarily mean he's scum. I would say he does need to be prodded... Repeatedly, until he actually gives us something.

[Crescent]

It nags at me how quickly that response came when he was put -2. It gives me the vibe that he only went into "try" mode because of it.

[Crescent]

Yeah it's been pretty dead overall. I would support Ger, Moose, or Andres wagons at this point.

Interesting. It's almost if Monkey knows what I am struggling with.

You hinted earlier that someone specific has been bugging you so far, but you've yet to really elaborate on like.. Anything, this game.

This kind of just adds even more murkiness.

[Crescent]

That wouldn't surprise me. I feel like it's only really been a small contingent of people pushing things forward.

We've spent the last 2-3 days mostly just waiting for content from specific players. I feel like it's causing overall engagement to drop because people have generally said their piece on what we already have.

It's actually good to know this is considered "slow", though.. But I suspect anything here will be based on what I'm used to.

[Crescent]

That sounds potentially fun. My average day 1 is generally around 1,200-1,500 posts... In 48 hours. Kind of feel like I've been hibernating a bit the last couple of days so I don't go into OCD mode and completely blow myself out before the first day is even over.

[Crescent]

I think scum want to slow the game down.

Who do you find guilty of this?

My personal answer: Too many people that they can't all be scum.

...Which is what makes it more annoying.

[Crescent]

Ok just so i get my bearings straight here.

What's a "hood"? Are they what I know as "masons"?

[Crescent]

Why vote for someone who's already being replaced?

I just noticed something though.

Andres has gone from a leading wagon to having 0 votes, all in a timespan *he has done absolutely nothing* and remains at just 8 posts, with his only content being a shady MM vote. People thought Vanya might be trying to lurk out pressure earlier, but I've heard a lot less chatter on Andres.

The player nobody knows who's already being replaced has consistently been getting pushed back up, this time despite the replacement message. I'm with Scorpious - I want nothing to do with this train right now.

We need some course correction.

...It may have just occurred to me that I never looked up how to format a vote here, give me a moment.

Sidebar: I've had a little nagging distrust of Cara for a while. Now she's recently downplayed Andres' inactivity, put a vote on a train I don't like, and put a vote on someone who called out the train as bad.

Anyway when I figure out how to vote I'm voting Andres. There's still plenty of time left in the day that we shouldn't be giving him a pass.

[Crescent]

Members of a neighborhood, or "hood", have the ability to talk in a seperate forum, but their alignment is not garaunteed to be town as masons are.

Oh we've bas neighbors.

50/50 chance there's scum in one usually, but they're uncommon.

Oh the quick reply menu didn't have the bold button. But now I see the ASCII tags so I'm good.

##Vote: Andres

You don't get to hide. You will contribute or you will die. Same thing I implied for Vanya earlier~

[Crescent]

...Does the vote count if it's in white?

[Crescent]

VOTE: Andres

Oh the button actually says "vote", I just missed it on my phone.

[Crescent]

As far as I can remember there isn't anyone I'm this game who's in any way tried to rush the day.

I see it as a gross misinterpretation from Meuh, but not one that's necessarily scummy. It would've been a bad pretext for a vote, but Meuh is still sitting on Vanya.

[Crescent]

Different people play roles like neighbor and mason differently. I don't think there's any one catch-all meta you can use.

I was mason once. I spent half the game saying he might be scum, and we both lived until day 5 where we claimed masons with 1 scum left.

The last pair of masons I saw claimed right away on day 1.

[Crescent]

Wait Titus voted Scorpious why did I think Cara did

Wow my brain failed me

[Crescent]

I don’t like the moose wagon right now and I’m almost assured there is at least one scum there right now.

VOTE: Scorpious

1) shades major wagon
2) has no vote elsewhere

A large wagon is likely to have scum. Scorpious doesn't say why he hates the wagon or who would be better. It's the opposite of helping the game move forward.

Last thing because this is so bad..

I had actually placed more votes than you up until this point…

I fact. This is your first real “vote”…

This is just so bad.

VOTE: Titus

Something about this feels more manufactured than genuine.

[Crescent]

Actually to go further, I just don't like that entire post. That's OMGUS for you.

But also, when I thought it was Cara for some reason, the issue I had is I felt voting Moose and Scorpious soon after was establishing a clear pattern of avoiding Andres. This was obviously incorrect as she did not place that vote.

Titus has pinged off of something interesting though: No one has said the Moose wagon was bad without giving an actual reason to call it bad anywhere near as much as Scorpious has consistently done.

I gave the reason I dislike it just now: I think it's an easy possible distraction from Andres doing even less than that slot has. I'm not sure he's ever given a serious reason.

I remember not particularly trusting Scorpious early, but then someone said he was acting very differently to how he did his last game where he was scum. Who was that?

[Crescent]

also crescent, in my head the andres and moose wagon are on the same wavelength. I was on moose mainly because there wasn't as much of an implication of playing the game eventually. What about andres makes you prefer his elim?

Two reasons.

Andres' only bullet point of activity is a vote on MM that piggybacked off of my pressure, but he made no attempt to add pressure himself. That iffy vote is his only "content" of the game.

What raises the paranoia flags though, is he somehow went from 3 votes to 0 after not making a post in like two days, and it started feeling like he was kind of being ignored.

[Crescent]

also crescent, in my head the andres and moose wagon are on the same wavelength. I was on moose mainly because there wasn't as much of an implication of playing the game eventually. What about andres makes you prefer his elim?

Two reasons.

Andres' only bullet point of activity is a vote on MM that piggybacked off of my pressure, but he made no attempt to add pressure himself. That iffy vote is his only "content" of the game.

What raises the paranoia flags though, is he somehow went from 3 votes to 0 after not making a post in like two days, and it started feeling like he was kind of being ignored.

I think it’s worth noting, that this is one of Titus’ main reasons for voting me, lack of content.

And frankly, I can see where she's coming from. You've pressured 0 people and made a ton of side comments.

You've said 3 separate times you dislike the Moose Wagon, but only in the context that you're not sure Moose is scum. You've never said anything about the people on him.

You just flat out said you're "almost sure" Moose has scum on him, but again did not do anything about it.

Gamma Emerald, Dwlee, and now Cara. You have said *almost* nothing about any of these players all game. You haven't even mentioned Cara in one post, and she's the most recent vote. Your entire ISO almost completely ignores the existence of people who have actually voted for Moose. It makes your comment on his train come off as little but tripe. If you're so sure there's "at least" one scum there, why is your vote on the person who called you out for doing nothing about it?

[Crescent]

This also includes the people who were once on Moose, but are no longer there. How do you figure out vote history in this place? I'm used to removed votes being left on the vote chart for posterity.

I remember you calling Vanya "calculating" after the first time you called the Moose wagon bad, but Vanya... Never voted for Moose, I believe.

[Crescent]

also crescent, in my head the andres and moose wagon are on the same wavelength. I was on moose mainly because there wasn't as much of an implication of playing the game eventually. What about andres makes you prefer his elim?

Two reasons.

Andres' only bullet point of activity is a vote on MM that piggybacked off of my pressure, but he made no attempt to add pressure himself. That iffy vote is his only "content" of the game.

What raises the paranoia flags though, is he somehow went from 3 votes to 0 after not making a post in like two days, and it started feeling like he was kind of being ignored.

Yeah, I get that, but my main question is still why you prefer an andres wagon over moose, since they're pretty much the same in terms of "content".

And I think everyone just kinda piped up and threw votes down once we realized the game was slowing down. It seems to have worked in reviving it.

Because one put down an iffy vote that's looking worse over time as he continues to be inactive and one just flat out refused to play. There's a little bit more "reason" to think Andres may be scum, before you add on how badly he had fallen under the radar before I put him back in the spotlight.

[Crescent]

Oh I've been ISOing. I just wanted to know if there was like, a vote history button or something. Scorpious has 61 posts that say a lot less than I thought he has. Gamma and Dwlee were on Moose for days (and Gamma is still there), and nope.. Nothing.

Actually, going deeper.. Almost every mention of Gamma in his ISO is in quoting other people talking about Gamma.

His only mention of Cara is in quoting me

He has 3 posts that actually talk directly to Dwlee, who is barely active, and it's still more than the other two.

[Crescent]

Also Crescent you need a pfp!

preferably a cute anime girl

I tried putting one up of a cat but it decided not to work and I was like whatever.

[Crescent]

During a higher point in the game isn't the time, though. Things are actually happening right now.

It was just some black cat picture I ripped off the internet. I did the same on Discord.

[Crescent]

Moose's play has been anti-town, but anti-town does not necessitate the player is scum. He's the easiest vote in the game by a mile, but I would say from experience players like that are town more often than not. Scum in a new community are generally more hesitant to be flat out dickish. This is partly because generally they have other scum to curb them before they do dumb things, and because generally speaking newer players are more likely to act with entitlement as town.

My impression of his posts is that he's probably town who thinks he's too good for us and won't even bother to try.


However: Scorpious's defense of him has been *extremely* weak. So let's play the "if Scorpious is scum" game for hypotheticals.

If Scorpious is scum and that slot is town, I don't think he defends it so passively without any real effort. I think he tries to cash in on defending the easy vote for town points and actually tries to counterpush someone. If both are scum, I could see him defending the slot very loosely the way he has because he doesn't want to tie himself directly to it. As far as I can tell, I'm the only player notably mounting any consistent defense of that slot. Scumpious could be in a position where he's holding back, and banking on using that against me.

So I would say: If either Scorpious or that slot flip scum, the scum equity of the other slot rises significantly.

[Crescent]

Also Crescent you need a pfp!

preferably a cute anime girl

I tried putting one up of a cat but it decided not to work and I was like whatever.

Maybe it's a good thing. I might be biased against you...

because I'm a mouse. Squeek!

For reals though, it was probably the image size. Just resize it :p

Imma good kitty. I just want cuddles and pettings and stuff <3

[Crescent]

And here we go..

What makes you so sure Moose has a scum on him when you've completely ignored all the players who have voted for him?

[Crescent]

Is your next trick going to be actually explaining why you think there's "almost certainly a scum" on Moose?

[Crescent]

And here we go..

What makes you so sure Moose has a scum on him when you've completely ignored all the players who have voted for him?

It’s the largest most opportunistic wagon right now..


Pedit- I jump around when I read

I agree with this.

So why ignore the people who are on him? You've had days to do... Anything at all.

I specifically put a vote on Andres because I disliked the way his wagon vanished. You've said Moose is a bad vote repeatedly. Take Titus out of the picture. Who's a *good* vote right now?.

[Crescent]

I agree with Rodan's assessment that he was obviously "softclaiming", but am perplexed as to why he'd bring it up so quickly, and even more perplexed as to why he'd immediately demand a claim.

It feels like it needed a lot more time to play out.

[Crescent]

I kinda just ignored it at the time and kept pushing on him to back up his statements, and.. He backed off instead. I'm still waiting to hear who a "good vote" is from him.

Also, while I quite dislike the timing of Rodan doing what he did, that's probably not a scum/scum interaction with how fast he jumped.

[Crescent]

Andre's has not posted in roughly 70 hours and was prodded over 28 hours ago.

Took me a little while to even find his last post.

[Crescent]

Anyway I kind of have the feeling Scorp blatantly hinted PR and he kinda gave off a "playing dumb" vibe when it was addressed. I get that vibe from a couple of his posts yesterday.

Andres should probably just be getting replaced at this point. He could just inactively die instead, I suppose~

[Crescent]

I don't see how calling it a backpedal is inaccurate. You were pushed to put your money where your mouth was and withdrew. You called a couple of people "null" in the process which was effectively non-contact.

Moose has probably been voted by 4 or 5 different people this game at some point. You've pushed exactly 0 of these people.

[Crescent]

I accidentally hit the post button on my phone before I was done, but the point of the matter is you've said you're against his lynch 3 times, but have never committed to any action that backs it up.

When pushed to back it up, you both backpedaled and said we should lynch a low activity player - Moose of which would have been #1 or #2 on that list. It's also noted you did not exclude him from that statement.

[Crescent]

Also hi new person you've already done more than the person you replaced

[Crescent]

Damnit I used the l word again can I edit?

[Crescent]

I'd been tiptoeing around that word for days now and I used it twice there zzz my brain

I feel like any time I get serious I'm just defaulting back to using it.

[Crescent]

Usually I'm in serious mode for a significantly larger portion of the day than I've been in this game, I've just been able to successfully curb my OCD to the point where I don't mentally wreck myself because the days are so long.

Next step is not immediately defaulting back to my normal speech patterns when I get serious. At least I realized I did it myself, this time...

Between Synagogue and work i don't have much time today. Habe to use the time I do have effectively. Rambling isn't exactly efficient either.

Yay monologuing

[Crescent]

What’s up my peeps. I’ve kind of been skimming the game a bit but haven’t really done an extensive read through.

Just off the top of my head though, I got Meuh, Vanya, Moose, and Crescent as probably town. Maybe one of those could more than likely be scum, but they seem the most like town so far.

Cara, Scorpious, and Gamma are pinging me a bit.

Come to think of it, this last take is interesting. I recently brought up how Scorpious has effectively ignored the existence of those two all game when prodding him on his statements concerning the Moose vote.

[Crescent]

Though it's also a bit piggybacked in that way.

There's likely little chance he makes that comment on the Moose train if he's scum and multiple scum are on it.

The fact that he made a comment that assertive almost immediately after Cara's vote makes Scorpious/Cara feel like an unlikely combination.

So Scorpious/Cara and Scorpious/Rodan both feel like unlikely potential combos based on recent events. More to extrapolate here than I originally thought.

[Crescent]

When you've got 10 days, you may as well think of everything you can.

Gamma and Dwlee have both felt very much in the background this game. The latter hasn't done much but vote the only two players less active than they are.

Anyways gotta drive.

[Crescent]

It's not that they're defending themselves it's the way they are defending themselves.

I'm actually gonna have to agree with this. My least favorite part of scorpius' reaction was the cryptic statements that served as a confusing softclaim or a herring distraction. As well as the flat out refusal to engage Titus. The only reason I can fathom just refusing something like that, is if you didn't want to risk slipping up any more.

I feel like he barely even engaged with me. As soon as it became clear I wasn't backing off, he did.

It's been nagging at me.

[Crescent]

Also Rodan yes I know.

I can't give long replies at work but I know.

[Crescent]

The first time I ever came under pressure as a town power role, that's exactly what I did. As someone said, I was the "obvious doctor" before I ever claimed.

I actually think it's worse from an experienced player.

[Crescent]

You're specifically the only person who asked him to claim, so I get that much.

Though yes, him refusing to admit it is odd.

[Crescent]

My points on those votes were irrespective of Scorpious' alignment. Scum can do a "hop on vote" on other scum in that situation, too, and then use that vote for leverage later in the game. It's a really easy way to place a vote you can just ride on for a while.

I've never really town leaned Scorpious, but I hold by my town lean on Vanya. His train of thought is crude but feels genuine.

Don't trust gera at all though and consider him a good potential vote.

Also now that you've been useful UNVOTE: AndresReplacementPerson

[Crescent]

Ehh potential mindmeld in 176

177 - Ooh spicy. What is your true read on Carcalilly?

I don't know, just reading Scorpious' posts feel so different from last game and very similar to another scumgame I've played with them. 178and 179 in particular just feel strange.

VOTE: Vanya
Consolidating but moose still kinda sus

Is he though? You seem to just be keeping your options open.

I've explained all of those posts as I made them except for the mod one, but even that one should be obvious. I don't see the point of questioning me on why I like the idea of short prod timers after I just said how scum lurking out pressure is usually an effective strategy.

Roden town?

OMGUS much?

We caught scum guys.

Could dwlee and MonkeyMan be potential partners? They are individually scummy to me and have not interacted.

I feel like there is scum somewhere in dwlee, MonkeyMan, and Scorpious?

The way Roden straight up called out Scorpious didn't feel like a scum move. It felt like an annoyed town move. Scorpious' bad reaction to him makes me pretty confident that Roden is town if he is scum.

I kind of just completely let MM go after my pressure on him. Wonder why I did that.

Dwlee is a virtual inactive and has done basically nothing but hop between your slot and Moose, the other two inactives. Hopped from Moose to your slot almost immediately after I put the spotlight back on Andres. Kinda gives the vibe of not caring which of the two is getting voted for.

My personal experience says players like Moose are usually town being antagonistic because they don't know how to relate to the game. I've found players like him are the easiest vote in the world and they flip town more often than not - Though his scum equity goes up significantly if Scorpious is scum. He's been softly defending Moose without directly tying himself to him.

[Crescent]

I'm glad you are active, Italiano, but it doesn't sound like a lot of what you are saying is based on anything semi concrete.

Wow this reaction is horrifyingly bad. This might be the scummiest post in the entire game.

He's probably already given more content MM has all game, and this is the hill MM decides to stand on? MM just flat out disregards it all as not even worth responding to while he and I are actively going back and forth in our responses?


...Why did I decide to drop this guy off my radar again? Is it just because he voted Gera over Moose?


This is not a town reaction at all. This is a scum trying to shut the replacement up reaction. I'd actually be legitimately surprised to see MM be town based off of this one post.

[Crescent]

k so I took a few minutes to think it over and I just have absolutely no benefit of the doubt to give MM here. That post is almost never a town post. This is the second time MM has chosen a scummy as hell hill to fight on, and this one is somehow way worse than the other.

VOTE: MonkeyMan

This is scum. Andres was town. Andres was right.

Pretty high chance Dwlee is also scum. Just not even close to the near-lock MM is.


Pedit: I got ninjaed! Oh.

[Crescent]

I'm not sure what part he is talking about because I said kind of a lot. I'm guessing my scumread of him is what's eating at him.

MM went berserk on Vanya for "OMGUS" earlier when Vanya's vote on him wasn't OMGUS. Now, he flat out shuts down any response to you at all... And you said you thought he was scum.

This is the second time MM has immediately tried to discredit someone who's called him scum (Note: I never actually called MM scum when I was pressuring him earlier), and the second time he's done it in an anti-town manner. To completely disregard what was effectively a catchup post from 500+ pages of content with that nonsense is not a town mentality.

I personally found plenty to interact with. I remember Gamma specifically interacted once. Dwlee interacted once. Probably a couple of more people that aren't immediately coming to mind did.

I'm sure enough on MM to vote him. My vote is rarely swayed once I'm set on it.

[Crescent]

Don't trust gera at all though and consider him a good potential vote.

Also now that you've been useful UNVOTE: AndresReplacementPerson

It's day 1, you shouldn't trust anyone. That is a very pointless comment

Trust had nothing to do with it. My vote was only there to pressure an inactive, which is something I was clear on when I made it.

[Crescent]

Also MM flat out disregarding the replacement being his one and only post last night makes me feel even better about my vote.

[Crescent]

Also Meuh mentions Dwlee one time in that entire post when she says "I haven't attempted to sort Dwlee", then lists them as a top suspect and votes them.

Big disconnect between logic and vote to directly go against 3 quick votes on someone else with.

Kind of agree with Gera that it feels like a wall post leading to an easy vote just for the sake of placing a vote.

[Crescent]

So basically you're taking exception to the way I said I get scum vibes from you in that post, which is something I've said multiple times today.

What an odd fight to pick. It doesn't serve any purpose to nitpick me on word choice no matter your alignment.

MM being scum as the third vote on you instead of being on Moose does improve your stock some, though. How much depends what he flips. This vote was a primary factor in letting him slide earlier.

I am already wondering if your style will always read as scum to me though. There's a player where I'm used to playing whom I scumread every game.

[Crescent]

Also I feel like scum is mostly avoiding interacting with one another, be it in speech or in votes.

[Crescent]

Also Meuh mentions Dwlee one time in that entire post when she says "I haven't attempted to sort Dwlee", then lists them as a top suspect and votes them.

Big disconnect between logic and vote to directly go against 3 quick votes on someone else with.

Kind of agree with Gera that it feels like a wall post leading to an easy vote just for the sake of placing a vote.

I'm curious, are you under the impression I'm partnered with MM and defending them by pushing on Dwlee?
Also it clearly wasn't just placing a vote, considering the juicy juicy reactions we got out of it

You hadn't pinged me at all until that vote, I just found it questionable given the post it came with.

I'm also pretty sure MM isn't just scum; he's scum power.

I'm at work and can't read all the new posts, will be home in about two hours.

[Crescent]

I was thinking about making a generalized list at some point.

Honestly though? I can't say anything on that list actually sits all that poorly with me. A couple of people I'd shift one rank, but no one is in a range I would say I find to be flat out "wrong". Scorpious has done a whole lotta nothing since the whole softclaim thing and it's glaring. Gamma'a been lacking all game (His "oh darn I was going to challenge Scorpious but he just backed off feels *bad*, given I was challenging Scorpious for a little while already). DWlee has a lot of scum equity behind them. MM is scum.

I was quite curious as to why Meuh put that vote on DWLee, but that's been resolved fairly nicely I'd say.

[Crescent]

I just feel like Italiano picked someone out of a hat and decided to right a bible about while they are scummy, I think I've had a lot of good points for day 1 compared to a lot of players.

Oh speaking on MM, his only post today being doubling down on completely dismissing Italiano is noteworthy.

MM's #1 priority this game continues to be to discredit people who attack him - Not to sort it or to actually hunt for scum. He is flat out refusing to actually engage Italiano on anything he's said.

I'd love to see him try to discredit me~

[Crescent]

That post is so bad that it wouldn't be so bad to vote him based only on it, but..

It's interesting that they didn't say MM was scum at all. They instead said they're going to attack Gamma if he is.

[Crescent]

Do I have to explicitly say I scumread people now smh

Gamma's post is trying to lim me while shading MM. Reads like he doesn't want to bus but wants to still distance from a partner. That's why I think gamma could be scum w MM

See that wasn't so hard to put the thought process behind it. It's also an accurate thought process too, if you're town...

Because it's exactly what he did if you are.

Sidebar: Gamma seeming to randomly townread me early followed by Scorpious immediately shading me for asking why is something that's been on my mind concerning those two.

[Crescent]

Do I have to explicitly say I scumread people now smh

Gamma's post is trying to lim me while shading MM. Reads like he doesn't want to bus but wants to still distance from a partner. That's why I think gamma could be scum w MM

See that wasn't so hard to put the thought process behind it. It's also an accurate thought process too, if you're town...

Because it's exactly what he did if you are.

Sidebar: Gamma seeming to randomly townread me early followed by Scorpious immediately shading me for asking why is something that's been on my mind concerning those two.

Can you unmuddy that last sentence please?

Gamma called me town out of the blue without a reason.

You called it scummy when I asked him why.

This is something I could see two scum doing with a new player who's still relatively unknown. This is easily the closest the two of you have ever come to interacting in any meaningful way.

[Crescent]

I’m town.

Damn how could I vote you now

The sass amuses me.

[Crescent]

That’s a fair suspicion, but tbh I think calling my TR “out of the blue” feels a bit harsh. I tend to form reads for reasons others might see as flimsy.

You said you leaned town on me and someone else without giving any reason why very early in the game
It's about as out of the blue as it gets.

[Crescent]

That's a poor idea.

Now that you’re here, what’s on your mind. Other than Vanya, who else do you think is scum?

Well, he's on Scorpious right now....

[Crescent]

I’m town.

Damn how could I vote you now

The sass amuses me.

I agree. He beat me to it.

Wait who is the he in this scenario?

DWlee is a they and I'm a she.

[Crescent]

Just eliminate me and get it over with if you're going to be assonine about it.

The only thing you've done since he replaced in is attack his reads, refuse to engage with him, and flat out refuse to... Like, play the game at all.

..How is he the one being asinine?

[Crescent]

So.... You're being flagrantly anti-town as your "defense" for people saying you're scum?

You've completely ignored every post Italiano has ever made.

[Crescent]

Joins game
Attacks anyone who looks at them
Refuses to explain anything
Asks to die

What's really odd is he's just completely ignoring my calling him scum. He's solely focused on Italiano calling him scum and how it's completely invalid "because reasons".

He comes off as toxic and petty towards Italiano specifically, but doesn't seem to care about anyone else. It's bizarre.

[Crescent]

Here’s my deal on D1 wagons..

Where did this whole wagon on MM start? Who started it? Why did they start it?

My point are these are three variables that must be accounted for, and it’s almost impossible to have that information.

I’m joining the wagon because it’s a way to advance the game . I have no real input on if this is scum or not.

Pedit- I’m bad at this, and that kinda sounds like what i would say if I was flailing.


VOTE: MM

Who do you actually have "real input" on being scum?

[Crescent]

Here’s my deal on D1 wagons..

Where did this whole wagon on MM start? Who started it? Why did they start it?

My point are these are three variables that must be accounted for, and it’s almost impossible to have that information.

I’m joining the wagon because it’s a way to advance the game . I have no real input on if this is scum or not.

Pedit- I’m bad at this, and that kinda sounds like what i would say if I was flailing.


VOTE: MM

Who do you actually have "real input" on being scum?

I’m struggling to find Dwlee town, they usually aren’t so wishy washy.

Titus bothers me. Came in, said some things about a hood, made a push on me it didn’t stick, *poof*.

You give me scummy vibes a little too.. just I’m a nagging way like they’re is something obvious that I’m just over looking.

Funny how I mention Scorpious shaded me 600 posts ago, and he immediately shades me again, yet gives no reasoning this time. However, that's not what's glaring to me.

Do you guys use rule of 3? This is very much a "rule of 3 post". Last time I saw one this bad it ended up in the scum who posted it getting dayvigged.

Anyway, Scorpious, in much worse fashion than DWLee, stops short of directly calling MM scum, but votes him anyway. A Scorpious vote on DWLee, who he claims is on his sus list, puts them just 1 vote behind MM, with Meuh as a solid player leading that train.

He ignores that the push on him didn't stick because he blatantly softed power in two seconds. He also ignores that Titus is still voting him because she's still sure he is scum.

Alarm bells going off in my head right now. Scorpious effectively vanished for 2+ days with virtually no content, then came back with a "Well I don't *think" he's scum, but I guess I have no choice" vote on MM, then puts out this "Well these three people are kind of bothering me" post that commits to absolutely nothing that often comes from scum.

MM is -2, but this day is not ready to end. Scorpious and MM both have very high scum equity, but I *do not* think it's both of them. Scorpious' MM vote was bad. His response to my inquiry following that vote was worse. I need time to think on this - I feel like these players are actively trying to out-scummy the other, and this is turning into a "fun" day 1 scenario where there's no reason to think either of two players are town but it doesn't make any sense for both to be scum.

UNVOTE: MM

I may just be overthinking this, but these two posts from Scorpious have me paranoid. I'm going to sleep on it.

[Crescent]

A game this size on average goes over 1,000 posts in a 48 hour day 1 that I'm used to... So this game is moving in slo-mo for me. I believe there have been a couple of games from several years in the past that crossed the 10,000 post threshold before all was said and done.

Anyways, MM's incredible overdefensiveness towards any kind of suspicion led me to that feeling. He's outright discredited any scum read on him as not genuine. It's petty and childish. It vibes with feeling "important".

The strong scum feel is because he's making posts that no town should ever be making, and he's making them with conviction. He's either scum or he's embarrassing himself. There is no good reason for town to be acting in the extreme anti-town manner he is acting. He basically will not contribute to the game under pressure.

Fun fact about your DWLee vote though: If Scorpious had voted there, where he said he had sus, and not on MM, "to advance the game", the vote would be tied right now. It's just another example of how Scorpious just isn't coming from a town mindset at all.

Frankly your reason for voting DWLee was good anyway. Better than the nonsense he gave in his "rule of 3".

[Crescent]

Here’s my deal on D1 wagons..

Where did this whole wagon on MM start? Who started it? Why did they start it?

My point are these are three variables that must be accounted for, and it’s almost impossible to have that information.

I’m joining the wagon because it’s a way to advance the game . I have no real input on if this is scum or not.

Pedit- I’m bad at this, and that kinda sounds like what i would say if I was flailing.


VOTE: MM

i would have hoped for better than this for a vote pushing someone to 5

As would I.

Funny that Scorpious is calling me scum now for pointing out his lacking.

[Crescent]

I was under the impression you suspected me last page

Yet he didn't vote you and instead voted a guy he "had no read on".

And now he's calling the person who called him out on how scummy that behavior was

"Hmmm".

[Crescent]

FugitiveMoose's post is actually exactly what I'd expect scum who were told "idk just give a read and vote someone!" by teammates would post hmm

This is a fair point and I concede could be exactly what happened if you're town.

[Crescent]

I was under the impression you suspected me last page

Yet he didn't vote you and instead voted a guy he "had no read on".

And now he's calling the person who called him out on how scummy that behavior was

"Hmmm".

Who’s being defensive now?

Amused that you'd call this defensive when I'm fileting you~

It fits right in line with your pattern of recent scummy behavior. The fact that your vote is still on MM, who you've said you have no read on, is not town behavior at all. It was so bad it made me question everything on a train I was leading.

Town you should've been on DWlee last night, and it should be on me now. It feels like you're putting up a facade to distance yourself from the vote you actually did make.

To sum it up

"I don't think this guy is scum but I'll vote him anyway"

"You know you could've just voted the top person on your supposed scumlist and put them only 1 vote behind, right?"

"Oh well you're scum for pointing this out".

This is not organic thought process coming out of Scorpious.

[Crescent]

Dwlee has been on my radar for a while.
The thing that sticks out to me the most is the early voting on someone after they have been mention in a unfavorable way. I'm feeling that it is a more of a scum move than a town move. Ex. casting a vote around and seeing if it gets traction on someone. Trying not to be too late on the wagon as well.
You're allowed to vote without a reason, when there is a lot of discussion going on about the person your voting and you agree. but continuing to cast a vote without giving a reason is suspicious.
Dwlee, also left the vote on Itailiano after the replacement for a little too long.
I also believe that the vote on MM was only after pressure and a wagon build up on dwlee.

For that reason

VOTE: VOTE: Dwlee

im realy noting this, further attemps to not have a MonkeyMan wagon go through and instead Dwlee

Also.

Worst vote here was Gamma who called them scum with MM during MM's buildup and voted Lee instead. Moose's isn't good in a re-read though. It's too apologetic.

The quality of votes on DWlee in general is pretty bad right now outside of Meuh. It's also a vote I don't particularly want anymore as the day has gone on.

My top two scumreads by far are MM and Scorpious. I've been doing mental gymnastics on it because I feel them both being scum would be weird. I can't remember the last time two players hit 90%+ scum equity for me on day 1 of a game.

[Crescent]

Oh and for the record, Gamma is next. I'd put him around 70%

[Crescent]

Something I’ve noticed is dwlee is forming thoughts and posts and acts like they know they are town, while MonkeyMan is forming thoughts and posts and acts like he is upset that we don’t see him as town. It’s a going difference imo.

Also lol, MonkeyMan is not dealing with me, anyone else wanna try to get him to engage in the game?

All he said was "I'll post what I feel like when I feel like it".

He won't engage with anyone, it's not just you.

Lee looks like someone who "woke up" when pressured. Self-preservation is *not* scummy. Some players naturally are that way. I used to gear shift when pressured, personally. There's someone I'm used to playing with who I routinely nag at early to get him to talk.

Lee has had a train of thought where you can follow it and see the town motives.

[Crescent]

That's a poor idea.

Now that you’re here, what’s on your mind. Other than Vanya, who else do you think is scum?

i feel like i am in trouble if there are people agreeing with my Day 1 thoughts.

I've finally picked up on what I think will be key in reading you.

You like to appear dumb. You want people to think you're not as smart as you actually are.

But it slips when you make posts like you have recently that have been on point.

[Crescent]

Dwlee has been on my radar for a while.
The thing that sticks out to me the most is the early voting on someone after they have been mention in a unfavorable way. I'm feeling that it is a more of a scum move than a town move. Ex. casting a vote around and seeing if it gets traction on someone. Trying not to be too late on the wagon as well.
You're allowed to vote without a reason, when there is a lot of discussion going on about the person your voting and you agree. but continuing to cast a vote without giving a reason is suspicious.
Dwlee, also left the vote on Itailiano after the replacement for a little too long.
I also believe that the vote on MM was only after pressure and a wagon build up on dwlee.

For that reason

VOTE: VOTE: Dwlee

im realy noting this, further attemps to not have a MonkeyMan wagon go through and instead Dwlee

Also.

Worst vote here was Gamma who called them scum with MM during MM's buildup and voted Lee instead. Moose's isn't good in a re-read though. It's too apologetic.

The quality of votes on DWlee in general is pretty bad right now outside of Meuh. It's also a vote I don't particularly want anymore as the day has gone on.

My top two scumreads by far are MM and Scorpious. I've been doing mental gymnastics on it because I feel them both being scum would be weird. I can't remember the last time two players hit 90%+ scum equity for me on day 1 of a game.

We’re you wrong in that game too?

I like your play, you just seem to get a little ego going when you think you’ve figured things out

Why haven’t you voted me if I’m tipping your scum scale in unprecedented ways?

Because MM is still higher than you and your actions last night are the only reason I got off of him to think. Early hammers are a bit of a problem that I'm used to where I come from.

Your vote on him and subsequent post are both horrid. I don't see town-motivated thought process in them.

[Crescent]

I like your play, you just seem to get a little ego going when you think you’ve figured things out

Doesn’t everybody?

Of course, and frankly I'm used to being gender bashed by misogynists every time I assert myself in a game. Scorpious' reaction to my aggression is barely a blip on my radar.

When you have a stronger scumread you go on it hard because that conviction is ultimately what draws people in and gets that player to respond. People don't just need to see an argument for calling someone scum, they need to be shown the person giving the argument believes in it. Passively calling scum rarely achieves anything, even if the argument is good.

This is one of the greatest pitfalls for scum in all of mafia. Some really struggle at being able to fake conviction.

[Crescent]

Please don’t tell me I’m supposed to believe you are worried about an “early hammer” on a pretty valid wagon when they are at 5 votes.

Who here are you expecting to rush in with 2 votes to early hammer?

My last scum game I benefitted hugely on day 2 by an early hammer. I was caught in the middle of a rather sticky day and manipulated my shift so I'd be home several hours before the day ended. I may have ended up needing to claim because my planned fakeclaim would've directly helped out one of the people involved, and it was someone I had already voiced some opposition to voting. Basically, I would've been forced to take a stance on a couple of players I wasn't voicing scumreads on aka I would've had to manufacture something on someone I knew wasn't scum and had never shaded.

I got home from work, checked the situation, then took a nap to charge up for the end day. During this nap, a player suddenly went from 3 votes to 6 (hammer), with a few hours left in the day. I was essentially bailed out of having to commit to any sort of hard read or decision in the situation, and ultimately town really hurt itself by doing it. I received 0 votes and almost no pressure that entire game, and I think a lot of it is because town had a great chance to indirectly pressure me on day 2 and blew it.

Where the votes "may" come from is irrelevant. I have no reason to trust a community that's new to me not to have someone accidentally or "accidentally" hammer.

[Crescent]

Please don’t tell me I’m supposed to believe you are worried about an “early hammer” on a pretty valid wagon when they are at 5 votes.

Who here are you expecting to rush in with 2 votes to early hammer?

My last scum game I benefitted hugely on day 2 by an early hammer. I was caught in the middle of a rather sticky day and manipulated my shift so I'd be home several hours before the day ended. I may have ended up needing to claim because my planned fakeclaim would've directly helped out one of the people involved, and it was someone I had already voiced some opposition to voting. Basically, I would've been forced to take a stance on a couple of players I wasn't voicing scumreads on aka I would've had to manufacture something on someone I knew wasn't scum and had never shaded.

I got home from work, checked the situation, then took a nap to charge up for the end day. During this nap, a player suddenly went from 3 votes to 6 (hammer), with a few hours left in the day. I was essentially bailed out of having to commit to any sort of hard read or decision in the situation, and ultimately town really hurt itself by doing it. I received 0 votes and almost no pressure that entire game, and I think a lot of it is because town had a great chance to indirectly pressure me on day 2 and blew it.

Where the votes "may" come from is irrelevant. I have no reason to trust a community that's new to me not to have someone accidentally or "accidentally" hammer.

I don’t buy this at all.

1. No two people are going to rush to hammer someone, not unless they want to be launch candidates the next day.

2.I would really love to know who you feel in this game is capable of rushing the lim in tandem.
In fact, that is now a specific question. Of those not on the MM wagon..

Who would you think would be the most likely to do that, and why?

Also, 6 votes is a lot different than 7, I’m assuming it was day 2 which means there was some concrete info to go on.

So please, if you will. The two names you think are out there that would prompt you to be worried enough to remove your vote.

Who said anything about it being in tandem? The three votes in that game happened 40 minutes apart. Town got impatient. Also, numbers are ultimately semantics. -2 is still -2. It doesn't matter how you get there.

Also if I had to pick out two most likely: Vanya and Gamma, the latter of whom I scumread. Vanya's been on MM before and Gamma has already called MM scum.

This is a really odd hill to be fighting on, but I actually kinda like it.

[Crescent]

Sorry, should have called V/LA this weekend. Mother's Day.

UNVOTE: ItalianoVD

Gonna read up a lot more today. Posting from work so I'll be a bit slow. Also ayy hello IVD.

Also lol, MonkeyMan is not dealing with me, anyone else wanna try to get him to engage in the game?

MM has been getting super defensive this game whenever he's pushed. I think MM just doesn't react well under pressure. He seems to blame the game rather than try and hunt for reads.

He comes off as feeling "bullied" by the slightest pressure.

Interestingly, his vote has been sitting on Scorpious for a long while now. He's only leading DWlee by 1 and Scorpious by 2. I don't really get why he just won't engage with anyone.

[Crescent]

Please don’t tell me I’m supposed to believe you are worried about an “early hammer” on a pretty valid wagon when they are at 5 votes.

Who here are you expecting to rush in with 2 votes to early hammer?

My last scum game I benefitted hugely on day 2 by an early hammer. I was caught in the middle of a rather sticky day and manipulated my shift so I'd be home several hours before the day ended. I may have ended up needing to claim because my planned fakeclaim would've directly helped out one of the people involved, and it was someone I had already voiced some opposition to voting. Basically, I would've been forced to take a stance on a couple of players I wasn't voicing scumreads on aka I would've had to manufacture something on someone I knew wasn't scum and had never shaded.

I got home from work, checked the situation, then took a nap to charge up for the end day. During this nap, a player suddenly went from 3 votes to 6 (hammer), with a few hours left in the day. I was essentially bailed out of having to commit to any sort of hard read or decision in the situation, and ultimately town really hurt itself by doing it. I received 0 votes and almost no pressure that entire game, and I think a lot of it is because town had a great chance to indirectly pressure me on day 2 and blew it.

Where the votes "may" come from is irrelevant. I have no reason to trust a community that's new to me not to have someone accidentally or "accidentally" hammer.

I don’t buy this at all.

1. No two people are going to rush to hammer someone, not unless they want to be launch candidates the next day.

2.I would really love to know who you feel in this game is capable of rushing the lim in tandem.
In fact, that is now a specific question. Of those not on the MM wagon..

Who would you think would be the most likely to do that, and why?

Also, 6 votes is a lot different than 7, I’m assuming it was day 2 which means there was some concrete info to go on.

So please, if you will. The two names you think are out there that would prompt you to be worried enough to remove your vote.

Who said anything about it being in tandem? The three votes in that game happened 40 minutes apart. Town got impatient. Also, numbers are ultimately semantics. -2 is still -2. It doesn't matter how you get there.

Also if I had to pick out two most likely: Vanya and Gamma, the latter of whom I scumread. Vanya's been on MM before and Gamma has already called MM scum.

This is a really odd hill to be fighting on, but I actually kinda like it.

In this game to go from 5 to 7 would require 2, hence the term “tandem”.

I’ll call this fair, but I still feel it’s a bit stretchy to remove a bite for your given reason. Especially when one of the two possibilities has essentially vanished from the game.. Gamma isn’t really a beacon of activity either, but I’m not pushing it.. I’m satisfied with the answer, although i still feel uncomfortable with you. You get a scum lean for now.

I'm talking about a game that went from 3 votes to 6 in 40 minutes. You're talking about a game that has more players at the time (13 instead of 11), but needed only two new votes to hammer (2 instead of 3), and acting like those votes would have to occur at the exact same time (instead of over 40 minutes of time).

Like I have no idea where the hill you're even fighting on is. You've completely ignored the point.

[Crescent]

That's a poor idea.

Now that you’re here, what’s on your mind. Other than Vanya, who else do you think is scum?

i feel like i am in trouble if there are people agreeing with my Day 1 thoughts.

I've finally picked up on what I think will be key in reading you.

You like to appear dumb. You want people to think you're not as smart as you actually are.

But it slips when you make posts like you have recently that have been on point.

oh, i have had plenty of games where i just sucked. i never seem to get eliminated by scum, they are happy to have me aroudn for the end game because i will screw it up. my last game was a rare game where i think i played well so my confidence is a little higher in this game than normal, but i have a long history of just being bad at this game.

i also do not trust any judgements made day 1 as being better than a coin flip, including my own - i do try and get better as the game goes on though as town gets more and more info.

I used to think that way on day 1. I think a lot of people still do. Part of what makes it hard to get things started.

[Crescent]

Anyway Scorpious feels like he's stretching so he can retroactively justify calling me scum when he did and gave no reason.

But to do it in such an asinine and reaching manner... Is actually a fair bit better than his actions last night and it slightly lowers his scum equity. Like he has to know this isn't going to pressure me at all, and I don't feel like scum Scorpious in this situation should feel desperate enough to attack me over something so NAI. There really wasn't anything to gain except for potential backlash.

[Crescent]

After reading the last few pages, especially the interaction between Crescent and Scorpious, I wanna update my readslist.

Meuh
Crescent

Carca
Roden
Uncle Vanya

Titus
geraintm
Moose
Scorpious
dwlee

Gamma

Monkey

*

blue

- strong townlean, *

green

- medium townlean, *

yellow

- weak townlean, *

orange

- weak scumlean, *

red

- strong scumlean

Nothing else aside from Scorpious and dw has changed obviously. If MonkeyMan is somehow town then scum is probably between yellow and green.

Considering you only have two scumleans on this list, there would have to be scum in a different category regardless of what MM is. That statement kinda doesn't mean anything.

Anyway I've overdoing it the last couple of days and I'm not feeling particularly well right now. I'm going to try to nap.

As far as people who are high priority to hear from before the day ends, Titus is #1 on that list. As it stands she's basically just a blank space in my current reads. We need to hear more from her.

[Crescent]

That vote was like... 10 hours later than it should've been.

Also since Carca asked:

MM 95%. Little of what he's doing should ever come from town.
Scorpious was at 90% but now it's more like 80%. His push/vote at me was so bad it actually made him a little less scummy.
Gamma around 70%. Lacking content all game, and he fits very well on a team with either MM or Scorpious based on his actions.

Gera Moose and DWlee hovering around 55-60%. Moose's vote actually looks really bad if DWlee is town for reasons DWlee themselves pointed out. Gera I'm probably never going to find not-scummy so take this with a grain of salt.

Interestingly though, Scorpious moving his vote just dropped MM to -4 and tied him with DWlee, since Roden also unvoted.

VOTE: MM

Nope. That isn't happening. DWlee is not an acceptable option over MM today. It's basically between MM and Scorpious. It is amusing that I'm not the only one who unvoted when they saw MM at -2, but I'm the only one he's attacking for it. It's yet another inconsistency in his play.

Speaking of: I'm not a big fan of the inconsistent play, this game makes more sense to me overall if DWlee is town. I'm getting vibes that DWlee is the person scum is trying to knock out day 1, even if I'm not a fan of their play.

DWlee town makes all three of MM, Gamma, and Moose look worse to varying degrees, the former two of which are among my top scumreads. So yes, there's some confirmation bias at play here.

adding this for votecounter: VOTE: MonkeyMan

~ Koba

[Crescent]

So I'm to take it that everyone on a hood scans as scum?
I'm curious 'cause I've never seen that with neighbors.

[Crescent]

The case was already made and you've done nothing but further said case without me needing to do any additional work, so thank you for that.

I'm running a fever right now and I'm not really in the mood to be dragged back into your whining, anti-town nonsense. You're either scum, or you're an embarrassment.

[Crescent]

Oh I missed that vote on Pedit:

My top two scum reads are both voting me... How quaint.

And MM Was whining about OMGUS for a long time earlier~

[Crescent]

Scum Picks:
geraintm
Moose
Scorpious

Just want to point this out though:

Says Scorpious is scum. Immediately follows Scorpious onto a vote on someone he's never called scum all game.

Talk about inconsistent~

[Crescent]

Crescent was basically sheeping Italiano and had nothing worthwhile to say on his own.

This is exactly what he said about Italiano two nights ago. "Nothing worthwhile to say on his own". All he's done is switch targets.

Also at least call me by the right gender.

[Crescent]

these crescent votes are awful

Can't say I'm not used to it. If anything, it only furthers my belief that DWLee is flat out off the table today. Votes there are not acceptable.

[Crescent]

I had 5 votes on me so who am I allowed to vote for without OMGUSing exactly?

At the time of your voting me, you had listed 3 people as scummy.

None of these three people were voting you or even openly sussing at the time you voted me, a player you had never sussed

Like they said, it's the true definition of OMGUS, the very thing you called Vanya "caught scum" for when you claimed he was doing it to you.

I have no idea what Scorpious is doing, as it's hard to find motives regardless of his alignment. Was coming after me just for show? He had to have known nothing would come of it, and now he's right back on MM. His bad MM vote in the first place was why I unvoted to begin with.

Is he testing whether I'm going to unvote again? It's 30 hours later. We're now effectively in the home stretch with everyone at least somewhat on record recently, so I don't feel the need anymore. MM also had yet another night of bad reactions to everything, and frankly I'm tired of him.

I have 0 clue what to make of Titus right now. My read on her is just as blank now as it was before. Says kill Scorpious and mentions a hood. Comes back three days later and asks why Scorpious isn't dead yet. This level of tunneling is often player specific as to if it's scummy or not and I don't know her. Would sure have liked to see Titus really engage in some way on the MM train, but I can see her thinking it's already set and thus not worth the bother regardless of her alignment. So like I said, I've got nothing here right now. We need to see a lot more from Titus tomorrow. There's barely any player interactions to even go by in regards to her.

Also PT Cop is a role I've never even heard of in a game before. People were throwing around the term earlier, and I thought it meant like, part-time cop or something that had limited scans.

Also the new guy is #4 in post count despite not being here for like 5 1/2 days. We have some *very* low posters at the bottom.

[Crescent]

So basically, when Andres was here, the hood was the 4 lowest volume posters in the game. That's some RNG right there.

Also Vanya's logic is.. Kind of exactly why scum *wouldn't* want to shoot into an all-town hood. If people are going to assume there's scum in there, why would scum voluntarily reduce the pool of people? They'd want town to trick itself into a witch hunt inside the hood, which earlier sounded like similar happened in a recent game.

Can you define "cluelessness" further? He's got all of 11 posts in the game itself, and just got prodded for like, a third or fourth time Anything additional would help.

[Crescent]

I'm suspicious of why MM took off at all given how obviously scum Scorpious is. This VCA will be telling.

It's hard to make actual sense of it in general.

I will say I've been pondering if what Scorpious/MM did with the votes on me were staged, but I don't know Scorpious enough to know if that kind of play would be in his range given the chance it can backfire. All it really served was to give Scorpious an actual reason to vote MM, who doesn't seem to even be registering his vote on me is pure OMGUS, the same thing he called Vanya confirmed scum for earlier.


P. Edit: Also interesting that this comment of yours immediately summoned MM back into the game!

[Crescent]

P. Edit: Also interesting that this comment of yours immediately summoned MM back into the game!

MM posting at all is town indicative. Scum could just clam up not to give reads.

If MM were actually attempting to play the game, I'd agree. He hasn't given a single post of actual content in over 3 days.

[Crescent]

MM being town would actually piss me off quite a lot. Getting away from people like super-fragile-ego people like MM is half of why I came to a different community to begin with.

[Crescent]

Well welcome. There's certain ways to deal with the behavior you're talking about. Both alignments flail. The players need to feel listened to. That helps communication. If people feel that no one's listening, they'll lash out.

We asked MM to give scum people. He gave us 3 names.

He then voted someone solely for voting him.

Like what exactly is supposed to be done about play like this if it's coming from town?

[Crescent]

Well welcome. There's certain ways to deal with the behavior you're talking about. Both alignments flail. The players need to feel listened to. That helps communication. If people feel that no one's listening, they'll lash out.

Okay, but this is so not what happened with Monkey. Almost everyone asked for him to engage and he refused repeatedly, so no I don’t feel sorry at all. If you’re town then I’m gonna be pretty pissed because you could have NOT been eliminated, but if you’re scum then it makes total sense.

If he's town I have 0 regrets removing him from the game. Only anger and annoyance.

He's the kind of player that needs to be removed for a game to actually be able to progress.

[Crescent]

I think there was a lot of laziness going on and scum took advantage of it.

Says the guy who posted no content under pressure for over 3 days and completely dismissed anyone suspecting them as meaningless...

[Crescent]

Ok I'm just going to stop posting.

Bloody waste of a playerslot.

[Crescent]

One thing of note is... Scorpious went after me for unvoting because of the possibility of an early hammer, which felt like a rather asinine angle of attack that I feel had no real benefit for scum Scorpious to bother with, then he challenged me to give me the two people I thought would most likely contribute to a hammer from -2.

I said Vanya and Gamma. It later took them all of a few hours of MM at -2 to hammer him.

So essentially he came after me for being spot on... MM then tailor made Scorpious an excuse to switch votes back to him when he OMGUSed me, and this is why I've had the suspicion that they might be staging it.

[Crescent]

There's 0 point to you claiming when MM is already hammered and neither us has called for it.

Are you trying to like, reverse rolefish?

[Crescent]

Considering you're saying two people are demanding a claim from you when neither of us is, I have no idea what to call it.

[Crescent]

But let’s talk about you lying..

Your statement above was a horrible mis rep. You took a situation that happene over 24 hours and molded it to seem like it happen over a half hour?
Why are you embellishing what really happened?

What are you going for?

Pedit- “feels like”. Wow, you are a master of twisting words.

As Titus has already said, you keep changing the narrative. Your MM vote is strictly because he OMGUS voted me.

When I say I suspect it was staged and MM voted me to give you an excuse to vote him properly, you deny it's the reason you voted him.

[Crescent]

You voted MM for no reason.

You unvoted him to vote me.

MM quickly followed you to vote me.

You voted MM for voting me.

This is an established chain of actions.

[Crescent]

All I'm saying is I had the thought that you might both be scum and that it was staged to give you a reason to jump on MM.

Your response was to deny it's the reason you jump on MM.

Now you're again saying it's why you did.

What narrative are you actually going to stick to?

[Crescent]

One thing of note is... Scorpious went after me for unvoting because of the possibility of an early hammer, which felt like a rather asinine angle of attack that I feel had no real benefit for scum Scorpious to bother with, then he challenged me to give me the two people I thought would most likely contribute to a hammer from -2.

I said Vanya and Gamma. It later took them all of a few hours of MM at -2 to hammer him.

So essentially he came after me for being spot on... MM then tailor made Scorpious an excuse to switch votes back to him when he OMGUSed me, and this is why I've had the suspicion that they might be staging it.

This is an outright lie… so much happened between that and those 2 votes…
Just wow

Like, right here you're saying it's a flat-out lie that you only voted MM the second time for voting me.

10 posts later, you're saying you only voted MM the second time for voting me.

[Crescent]

So Titus is missing half the day.. Again?

Anyways, Roden only really ever did three things yesterday.

Voted Vanya very early (post 25) and needled him for a while

Called out Scorpious on softclaiming

Joined the votes on MM, but didn't really contribute much to the actual train

Roden was a low-volume poster (Only Vanya and Moose are lower) who really didn't do that much, which leads me to believe scum had a power read on him. MM somehow having "town" in his role removes any good will from Vanya, but I don't think scum shoots a guy based on a vote and small push made very very early on.

Who here has experience playing with Roden?

[Crescent]

Why tf is roden dead again

Oh is Roden dying early a thing?

[Crescent]

We still got rid of a not-town player. His role just didn't have the word "scum" in it, unfortunately.

And of course it's Vanya. MM playing like extremely obvious scum is the only reason Vanya was getting anyone's townread to begin with.

[Crescent]

We still got rid of a not-town player. His role just didn't have the word "scum" in it, unfortunately.

Facts here.

And of course it's Vanya. MM playing like extremely obvious scum is the only reason Vanya was getting anyone's townread to begin with.

Hmm. Why Vanya and not Scorpious?

Because Scorpious already had tons of scum equity.

Vanya was the guy we were townclearing based on MM being scum.

[Crescent]

Vanya was the guy we were townclearing based on MM being scum.

I was townleaning Vanya without there being anything to do with MonkeyMan. But I’m curious, talk to me about Vanya more.

MM's horrendous reaction to Vanya's vote looked like a scum/town interaction.

Also Roden's death doesn't really matter as far as reading Scorpious and not sure why it should.

[Crescent]

VOTE: scorpious
yeah I'm thinking this is scum

What changed?

consideration of the nightkill kicked in
there was no real objective to that kill, dwlee posited it could have been PR hunting but in that case why not shoot the softclaim that I don't think anyone really trusted enough to protect?

Scorpious is ridiculously easy to vote and already has two. The objective was probably just they thought Roden was low-posting power.

If I'm scum, and he's town, I don't even consider shooting him last night. Not for a second.

As scummy as I've found him, I entirely disagree with this reasoning.

[Crescent]

Yeah MM’s probably town. I don’t think scum post in twilight after getting limmed.

But he’s not saying anything still.

Didn't get to answer this one because of deadline
Any content from a scum player is content for us to analyze, isn't it? I'm biased on this one since the only time I've gotten to play scum on this site, I got limmed day 1, said nothing in twilight, and my partner was able to win.
I just don't see in what way a scum player benefits from posting in twilight after being limmed?

Half the players where I'm used to playing will fakespew for hours as scum if given the chance just to mess with everyone's heads before they die. It's strictly NAI to me that someone would post as a "dead man walking".

[Crescent]

Vanya's also the only read that really changed for me, because MM's reaction to him felt so forced it didn't feel like scum/scum at all. I had no other reason to think anything good of Vanya.

I'm torn between not trusting Scorpious at all and not trusting the quick votes on him - But especially Gamma's. Gamma's vote felt both opportunistic and for a bad reason. Scorpious being alive is completely NAI - No good scumteam shoots a town Scorpious last night.

[Crescent]

Vanya's also the only read that really changed for me, because MM's reaction to him felt so forced it didn't feel like scum/scum at all. I had no other reason to think anything good of Vanya.

I’m looking at Vanya a little different for reasons not at all connected to MonkeyMan.

I'm torn between not trusting Scorpious at all and not trusting the quick votes on him - But especially Gamma's. Gamma's vote felt both opportunistic and for a bad reason.

Scorpious being alive is completely NAI - No good scumteam shoots a town Scorpious last night.

Why? Scum kills town power roles and if they don’t one of the reasons for their night kills is to hunt for one. There are two scenarios here and one of them have already been mentioned.

Scorpious softed pr and then pretty much became a loud claim by admitting he softed, although he didn’t specifically say what he was just to clarify.

1) Scum don’t kill him to “frame” him and cause the town to eliminate him because “pr not dead!”
2) He is scum and therefore cannot be night killed.

Which is more likely is the question.

I do have to say the play so far around Scorpious both for and against has me scratching my head and I don’t know who to trust. My gut is telling the posts have been townie, certain interactions have been townie, but logic and simplicity tells me he’s scum. Of course I’m not coming to decision just yet. I want to talk to more people.

Scum kills the strongest player they believe to be a power role, or the strongest player they feel is least likely to be voted off. A lot of scum simply kill "Best Player Alive" and just leave it at that. I've already made it clear I would've never humored a Scorpious kill as scum last night for even a second.

The issue I have is... Gamma feels like he was already prepared to suspect Scorpious before the day even came up. That's not to say Gamma might not just be bussing him, but I really get a vibe from him that he knew Scorpious was going to be alive.

[Crescent]

Like every time Scorpious talks about you it confuses me too.

But my issue specifically with Gamma was the reasoning. DWLee calling out the death immediately is NAI. Cara was even faster than Gamma and I don't feel based it strictly on his survival.

I concede this may just be a difference in meta between communities, though.

Town Scorpious would be the guy scum RBs every night and laughs at while he remains a constant distraction and potential vote off. Most games I've played in have had a roleblocker. Is it less common here?

My last scum game I had a strong cop read (he was a scanner, just not cop) on an underwhelming day 1 player going into night 1 and spammed roleblocks on him for four nights.

He claimed day 4 and was the game winning scumhammer on day 5. This is exactly what I'd do with Scorpious here unless something forced me to change my strategy.

[Crescent]

Basically I felt there was a 0% chance Scorpious would die regardless of alignment. Also, I feel scum should already have a pretty good idea who they're shooting tonight.

It may really just be a significant difference in mentality? The more I know the more I can adjust my feelers.

[Crescent]

Ok Scorpious. Let's put aside the claim for now and go into"who do you actually want to vote for today"? talk

The only thing we've really got on record today is you flipping on your Titus read. I feel like you've done really no game sorting at all on day 2 so far.

[Crescent]

And why does this game seem slower even though prod times have been cut in half?

Kind of a totally useless comment that feels "easy to say", but the answer is obvious.

The 2 1/2 day break between days 1 and 2 were a huge momentum killer, especially after how that day 1 ended up.

Pretty sure Moose hasn't even posted once?

[Crescent]

And why does this game seem slower even though prod times have been cut in half?

Kind of a totally useless comment that feels "easy to say", but the answer is obvious.

The 2 1/2 day break between days 1 and 2 were a huge momentum killer, especially after how that day 1 ended up.

Pretty sure Moose hasn't even posted once?

You responded to my totally useless comment with a totally useless answer.



It didn’t actually require one.

Yep~

[Crescent]

Interesting. You only claimed to go after me yesterday as a reaction test, and MM's subsequent vote on me is why you voted MM.

Your narrative changes so much it's actually a little hard to believe scum could be so careless.

[Crescent]

It was a lot of words just to shade Carca, and I have a bit of a bone to pick with it.

Yes, Carca votes him two posts later, but what he fails to mention is the post *between those* Carc posts - Where MM pops in and continues to dick around uselessly. She did hear what he had to say, it continued to be trash, and then she voted him. This feels like a deliberate lie of omission by Ger.

[Crescent]

Decently likely he is. It was a lot of words for a misleading single conclusion - Scum equity definitely goes up.

Anyways sidebar: Moose should be replaced. Prodded repeatedly day 1. Still stayed an inactive with 11 posts (less than half of the next lowest, and most being useless) over a span of 9+ days. This day is now almost at the 72 hour mark (Meaning it's almost halfway over) and he has yet to show.

...Vanya also hasn't posted in almost two days.

[Crescent]

Oh hi new person.

[Crescent]

I admit, i hate this playstyle. trailing votes in advance, pointing out multiple places you could go and then wait, but nowhere near enough for me to give them enough scum equity to want to vote for them.
right now, i don't want to vote anyone, but caraclily is in the posistion where i am watching their votes and see when and where they appear on wagons.

Claims to hate setting up votes.

This is setting up votes lol.

it isn't! But i can see how it can seem that way.
I went in thinking i would find something their posts/votes but i didn't and was surprised. I had my eye on them because i felt their day 1 vote on MonkeyMan was well times to derail another wagon onto one that turned into one on a Townie, and i absolutely hate anyone who pushed Scorpious today as we all knew that Scorpious was just going to caim, but i went in thinking i would have found a reason to vote for Caralily and didn't - which surprised me.
it would take some very obviously scummy behaviour the rest of today for me to vote Cara

No context of the games content but Scorps tone seems genuine and I mindmelded somewhat whrn they responded to my question to dwee

I'm at work and will expound later but this post is red flagging me hard regardless of Scorpious' alignment.

Scorpious has come off as such a wide-scale fraud this game that I have exactly one argument in my head for him being town.

This is a cheap and incorrect defense of the vote leader.

[Crescent]

Bad things happened last night and I'm not in any mental shape to be doing much right now.

Can someone run down what I've missed over the last full day or so? I want to keep myself current in the game, but I don't trust myself to absorb several pages of information properly right now. I see talk that a second protection claimed on this page?

[Crescent]

Why are people randomly claiming powers what the hell did I miss?

[Crescent]

Why does a Gunsmith claim make a JK more likely than a Doctor?

Though this reminds me... I asked this before and didn't really get an answer: How common are scum RBs here? I've had one in like 95% of the games I've played.

[Crescent]

That train of thought is still off though.

DWlee was the first person to comment on the kill.

I'm the one who first voiced suspicion it was a power-hunt kill.

[Crescent]

Why does a Gunsmith claim make a JK more likely than a Doctor?

Though this reminds me... I asked this before and didn't really get an answer: How common are scum RBs here? I've had one in like 95% of the games I've played.

Fake guilty to nerf town power and fake inno to swing for scum

Titus knew she died without it and wanted Scorpious dead
I knew I likely don’t get off another check
She decided to out to get utility.

The only town roles I know of that scans guilty to gunsmith are cop and vig. Cop won't be in a game of 13 with Gunsmith and someone mentioned long ago that this host hates vigs and doesn't use them. Godfather-type roles are common, but not sure what would exist to give you a false positive specifically.

I can probably count on one hand how many gunsmiths I've seen in all my time playing, though. I'm not exactly the best place for Gunsmith meta.

[Crescent]

Oh.

So mafia doctor IS the "godfather" to gunsmith, then?

[Crescent]

fyi godfathers are explicitly banned in normals but false innos to non-cops are allowed

This seems oddly arbitrary but good to know.

I've never heard of JK having a gun before, but I concede it could viably be a thing in a different community because it makes logical sense.

Anyway I'm basically just letting those few pages vanish off into the ether for now. I'll absorb them all when I'm ready.

[Crescent]

If Scorpious is town this game who can't go 5 posts without directly contradicting himself (he's contradicted himself on me/MM alone 3 separate times) then yeeesh.

Though it plays directly into that one argument in my head for him being town that I mentioned yesterday, and was intending to bring up after work until I landed in the ER instead: It's become apparent that Scorpious is a magnet for votes in games he's in, and it's made me wonder if he just has the attention span of a fish and this is just how he normally plays, because if this is how he normally plays I don't wonder where all the votes come from. Every piece of mafia logic I've ever known says him being town makes no logical sense. The only players I've ever seen contradict themselves as much as he has were doing it to actively troll the games they were in. The vibe I get from him is I'm not even sure he knows he's doing it. Anytime he gets called out on it, he immediately calls the other person a liar even after they prove the contradiction.

Basically he feels so unbelievably scummy to me that part of me hasn't wanted to believe he is. I lack a baseline with him and he may just be the naturally scummiest player I have ever played mafia with. Reading him in future games is going to be an absolute nightmare if he's town here.

[Crescent]

If we don’t do her I want Carca or Dwlee.

Meuh was a widely townread player who can be checked or sorted later

Titus shaded Meuh pretty quickly for her response to the doctor claim.

Something I did manage to catch.

[Crescent]

I think Meuh is mafia.

Fair. Too quiet. Avoided my claim.

It's her very last post. It egged JV towards that Meuh vote.

[Crescent]

Oh it's possible, but I feel like refusing to vote Titus based on her claim by voting on the person she nudged you to vote probably isn't the best play.