Open 850: Democrabilities (Postgame)

[Alianna]

Greeting the game. Unforgiveable.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Ahh no,
I HATE the greeting tell. (Sorry TTTT if your reading this)
VOTE: furtiveglance

It's totally NAI for a whole lot of players (myself included)
Also waiting for Alianna to come online and greeting tell the thread, she does it every time.

HIIIIII EVERYONE!

[Alianna]

Though I don't recall doing it last game. I RVS-voted for Somnus and told them to convince me they weren't scum again. Which, of course, they were.

[Alianna]

Alianna let me just latch onto you for a quick pocket/easy vote protection.

I can't wait to be towncore together this game!!!

We'll see.

[Alianna]

I just realized I had a chance to claim scum there and I didn't take it.

[Alianna]

This could end very quickly. We have a double elim today, but if both are wrong we’ll be in MeLo tomorrow.

[Alianna]

Which is the end anyway because we can’t no-vote.

[Alianna]

Goldfish I tried to ATE on page 1. Did it work or not?

Sorry what does ATE stand for?

AtE means Appeal to Emotion. I think furtive was referring to 19.

[Alianna]

Finally, I got my sig to work. And the post numbers.

[Alianna]

I guess you have to enable it every time you post. That’s annoying.

[Alianna]

Also if it's melo and we eliminate the intended nightkill we won't loose and it will Elo the next day.

Yeah. Or if we get Imprison and vote correctly. There seems to be a lot of caveats with this setup.

[Alianna]

I guess you have to enable it every time you post. That’s annoying.

Ohhh, I've been wondering why mine isn't working.

Works now. I feel personally attacked.

[Alianna]

Which is the end anyway because we can’t no-vote.

We can no-eliminate on the current elimination (the additional effect phase one) but not on the regular elimination.

Yeah. I was just referring to the quickest way to lose. On the other hand, the quickest way to win would be to yeet both scumbags today. That would be epic.

[Alianna]

I guess you have to enable it every time you post. That’s annoying.

Ohhh, I've been wondering why mine isn't working.

Works now. I feel personally attacked.

I'm sorry Alianna, it's just one of my pet peeves. But you are like my favourite person on Mafiascum so I might consider changing it for you.

I wasn’t being serious there. It’s probably good that I constantly have to read that reminder lol.

[Alianna]

Oh wow I forgot to attach the sig is there some kind of setting to have it permanently on?

I would think so. I find it hard to believe that everyone else just remembers to check the box every time.

[Alianna]

My recommendation is to play fast and loose with votes and get two wagons going asap.

What does this mean and how does it help us?

For scum, the odds of avoiding two wagons is hard. We can drive two people up and the choices made will be extremely useful in the future. That's the whole point of VCA.

We get two wagons, flip one. Look at the result and then decide if we want to flip the other one. The positions people take should be invaluable.

I believe the only confirmed innocent is from the inform action, which gives a permanent no nightkill to the recipient (I asked the mod, so I'm like 95% sure I get this.)

But that is just normal play, right? How does rushing through the eliminations benefit us?

Which is the end anyway because we can’t no-vote.

We can no-eliminate on the current elimination (the additional effect phase one) but not on the regular elimination.

Bad idea. The game starts with 12 players so that we end up on odds with the extra elim.

12 players? There’s only 9.

[Alianna]

Thank you!

[Alianna]

Goldie, furtive, and I all played in 2090, though Goldie repped into my slot. We also all played in 2092, Cat as well. I can't speak on the rest.

[Alianna]

Am I expected to be able to meta read players I played with before? Hope not :)

^

I should mention, I've never played with any of the people I know as scum. I don't think I could give good meta reads either because I don't have the whole picture.

[Alianna]

Nope. We are eliminating. Eliminations are information. That's a load of hogwash from scum looking to deny information.

VOTE: furtiveglance

Try me.
You're also voting the wrong person.

9 -> 1+1:1 -> 6 Misyeet and Lose.
6 -> 1:1 > 4 Scum Partity win -or- Misyeet and lose.
4 -> 1:1 > 2 Scum Parity win.

9 -> 1:1 -> 7
7 -> 1:1 -> 5 Potential YOLO.
5 -> 1:1 -> 3 YOLO.


I much, much prefer the second option.

So do I. If we disregard the possibilities of eliminating the NK target or power role shenanigans, the second option is mathematically better. Since the regular elimination is mandatory, 4 player MeLo is basically the same situation as 3 player ELo (same goes for 6p vs. 5p) - just with an extra person. It is still a game-ending situation in which the town has to vote. The extra person is a disadvantage because it brings down the town's chance of voting correctly. Assuming town vote randomly and do not vote themselves, the chance of any individual townie voting for scum is 50% in 3 or 5 player ELo, 40% in 6 player MeLo, and only 33% in 4 player MeLo. Of course, town do not vote randomly and occasionally vote themselves, but I think my point still stands. I'm open to changing my view on this, but for now I will park my vote here.

VOTE: No Elimination

[Alianna]

Didn't see Dunnstral's posts. Let me think on that.

[Alianna]

-Inform, Choose a player alongside this. You can no longer kill the chosen player, ever.

From the sample Role PM. Scum will not be shooting the bulletproof, who is separate from the Informed person, who is separate from the Imprisoned person.

So I still don't really understand what it is you're saying here.

I think what they're saying is that scum could deliberately shoot the bulletproof to force a no-kill if they wanted, but the wording of the Role PM implies that they can't actually do that.

[Alianna]

With the inform ability, the first vote of the day is what determines who is informed, not a majority. So the mafia could bulletproof one of themselves? (can they) and then vote for themselves as soon as day starts so no one knows the alignment. So if anyone votes quickly or for themselves if we get the inform ability (which I doubt we will anyway) that's very sus.

I don't think there's a good reason for scum to risk BPing themselves. I asked the mod and they told me you won't be informed if you get BPed, so I'm assuming it won't ever be publicly announced. If the person voted to be informed is scum, they can just fake an inno on their buddy anyway.

[Alianna]

-Inform, Choose a player alongside this. You can no longer kill the chosen player, ever.

From the sample Role PM. Scum will not be shooting the bulletproof, who is separate from the Informed person, who is separate from the Imprisoned person.

So I still don't really understand what it is you're saying here.

I think what they're saying is that scum could deliberately shoot the bulletproof to force a no-kill if they wanted, but the wording of the Role PM implies that they can't actually do that.

@mod, can the scum force a no-kill by shooting the bulletproof?

[Alianna]

-Inform, Choose a player alongside this. You can no longer kill the chosen player, ever.

From the sample Role PM. Scum will not be shooting the bulletproof, who is separate from the Informed person, who is separate from the Imprisoned person.

So I still don't really understand what it is you're saying here.

I think what they're saying is that scum could deliberately shoot the bulletproof to force a no-kill if they wanted, but the wording of the Role PM implies that they can't actually do that.

@mod, can the scum force a no-kill by shooting the bulletproof?

Yes

Oof, ok. Thank you for clarifying!

[Alianna]

At least if that happens, the disadvantage of being stuck on evens will be cancelled out by the existence of the Bulletproof Innocent Child. Unless we vote to inform scum. Then we're screwed.

[Alianna]

Also, the imprisoned person isn't clear?

[Alianna]

7, 71 and 104 from Radical Rat. just don't like the tone

I’m with you on the last two.
I didn’t interpret 6and 7 as serious so idk why Rat scumread you for it.

[Alianna]

VOTE: Cat.Jpeg

I can only realistically vote for players who are already voting to no-elim if I want to get an elimination. This is the scummiest player doing so.

Why do you find Cat scummy?

[Alianna]

Also, @Cat and Goldie, what are your thoughts on each other so far?

[Alianna]

I don't consider indecisiveness or lack of strong opinions to be a scumtell. Townies have to re-evaluate their opinions as they factor in new information. "Jumping around" is only scummy if it's done in a way that seems artificial. Either way, it's irrelevant, because Cat isn't doing that.

[Alianna]

Also, @Cat and Goldie, what are your thoughts on each other so far?

She's definitely trying to make you think she's town and she probably thinks you are town. I doubt that you two are a scumteam but individually for her im not sure yet. She is probably hyper aware of what I will read her for so it will be tricky, probably easier in day 2 tho.

Can confirm we are not a scumteam.
My read on her, like on everybody else, is pure null. I have some vibes from a couple of people, but no real evidence. Idk if it's just me, but it feels like this game has gotten off to a really slow start.

[Alianna]

There has mostly just been analysis of game mechanics and a lot of it is NAI

And yet I feel you should have more visible reads ...

Can you elaborate on this?

[Alianna]

Acting like the only choices are you or no eliminate is disingenuous

1) To suggest I am acting disingenously is very offensive and slander. I am pointing out the situation, which is that I am the only player with any votes. So a pivot isn't gonna happen now, even if I wanted one.
2) I don't want to eliminate. For the very simple reason that town always get voted day 1.

Acting like the only choices are you or no eliminate is disingenuous

That's because he doesn't want something. He wants the game to stagnate and have no information.

Someone should die tonight. If we had any real discussion whatsoever then we'd at least have data from someone who mafia thought was skilled town.

This is blatantly accusing me of being mafia. I strongly object to this gross mischaracterisation of my valid viewpoint. I think what you're suggesting is that 2 dead town is better than 1 dead town today because we'd get more 'information' and 'data' - I already explained how these buzzwords are a common tool of the mafia to further their agenda.

Does no one else think this post is incredibly scummy? It's outright telling someone else that I'm scum.

Agreed with all of this.

[Alianna]

I also think 173 clears Dunnstral, as much of a strawman as 172 was.

[Alianna]

Also, there are four people on the no-lim wagon at present. Titus has only accused furtive. Obviously, we can't all be scum, but I find it fishy that there are three others (four if you count Malcolm) pushing much the same ideas and she singled out one.

[Alianna]

I also think 173 clears Dunnstral, as much of a strawman as 172 was.

I don't understand. Do you think Dunnstral is definitely town for some reason? If so why?

Sorry, I put that vaguely. If Titus is scum, which is likely, then the 172-173 interaction doesn't look like a scumteam to me. I can't quite explain why, so maybe I'm totally wrong. If she's not scum, I have no idea. So I guess it doesn't quite clear them. I didn't really think too hard before posting 178.

[Alianna]

UNVOTE: for now, I’ll check the math tomorrow.

[Alianna]

Alianna do you think I'm town?

I don’t know anymore. I was mostly townreading you because you were advancing the game and I agreed with your sus on Titus.
You seem to be playing slightly differently than the last two games (in general, not just recently), but then again, so am I. I’m probably going to do some meta research tomorrow.
191 and 193 have not convinced me you’re town. No further comment.
Could you explain why you asked me this question? This and 25 give me the impression that you really want me to TR you.
Please pardon my late-night stream of consciousness posting.

[Alianna]

You should back me, it will pay off handsomely.

As I've said I'm very much on the no-elimination train here, I'm just not hammering yet because I want to clarify where everyone stands, I'm just very wary of your suggestion here you've basically caught both scum early on easily because they want to go for two eliminations. If such an approach works it's clearly got the support of townies too.

It's not actually at E-1 anymore since I unvoted, but I'm probably going to put my vote back there very shortly.

[Alianna]

UNVOTE: for now, I’ll check the math tomorrow.

I forgot I don't actually know how to check the math. I think the numbers kind of make sense though?
Still, I don't think the odds are as good as they look. If we shoot twice today, there's a pretty decent chance that we will have to make a game-deciding vote tomorrow with an expanded pool of people and little info from the eliminated people or the NK.

VOTE: No Elimination

Also, we have less than 2 days on the deadline. I don't feel like we've got enough info at this point or enough time left to come to a good consensus.

[Alianna]

What IS scummy is furtive starting out by saying we SHOULD use the double elimination, in a scummy fashion even, then turning around and pushing hard against it as soon as the possibility it might be him getting eliminated appeared.

Could you please point out where furtive said that? They've been pushing for a no-lim all game.

[Alianna]

If someone wants to hammer No Elimination, I have no objections.

[Alianna]

But maybe wait a bit and see if others have anything to say.

[Alianna]

We aren't going to get a good wagon in the time we have. I think it's best we just end the phase so we can move on from this argument and discuss reads.

[Alianna]

I'm torn over whether or not to hammer no-lim.

Originally I definitely intended to but Dunnstrals maths was fairly convincing, and even considering that some of it might be wrong it made me think more about it, and I think the most likely situation is we end up eliminating one town and one scum, which isn't bad.

It's not most likely, it's just under 40%. I'm not going to talk about the other numbers because any elimination we make now might as well be random. And I suppose there's the chance we eliminate the NK target, but we can't bank on that.

[Alianna]

I'd naturally be suspicious of the people involved in the conflict, but maybe the mafia are hiding in the shadows and watching us eat ourselves. I have no idea who it is right now.

[Alianna]

That VC was fixed though, well before Titus posted 280.

[Alianna]

Unless you guys are referring to the current VC. In that case, I don't think it's necessary to have a vote placed at all times.

[Alianna]

Ok, thank goodness. This game has been rife with misunderstandings, so I had to check.

[Alianna]

Okay so I was thinking about if Furtive was scum, who would be their scumbuddy?
I think it would be pretty crazy if Dunnstral, RadicalRat, or Titus is their scumbuddy.
Malcolm Tucker I really dont think is because of 100 and 102 along with other posts
Flea I dont think is because of 209, now normally I would consider the possibility of them being a scumbuddy but who doesn't want to go down with furtive so they decide its better to add some pressure to distance themselves but not straight up scum read but this post and the reasons used really dont feel like a scum buddy interaction.
Alianna 196, slightly less sure but also dont think this is scumbuddy behaviour.
Lastly there's Goldfish who i feel could be a possible scumbuddy, the RVS vote for Furtive coulda been orchestrated. She also was the only one who put basically no pressure on furtive, I will admit tho, I myself didnt say very much against them.

Ofc this all only matters if furtive is scum, but I dont know if I want to vote them soon and find out so oh well.
I could spend 5 hrs doing this ^ for everyone so if we find one mafia we will instantly know the other (because my assumptions are definitely always right) but im tired and also i dont think doing this will be as clear cut for other people and things might change but i thought this was worth it in case the furtive wagon rolls on into elim phase.
Basically what im saying is if furtive is scum goldfish would prolly be a good vote, if goldfish is town i think furtive is too?

(also just in case i get night killed, which i feel like i wont, i dont think Goldfish would wanna kill me night 1 (and its okay for me to say this because they cant change their minds) though she could probably be persuaded idk)

So the weird thing here for me is you're hunting associatives without a flip or even confidence in pre-flip.

Whats your read on Furtive currently? ELI5.

I think regardless of if we get a furtive flip that post was useful, this game has some interesting possiblities in which we can gain information without having to eliminate. It also helped me wrap my head around this confusing game. Idk what ELI5 means but right now I unapologetically town read furtive, its not a strong town read and if we get some actual reasons they are mafia other that 'being too defensive' (which yes can be scummy but town do it too, especially furtive) then i think their partner is goldfish.

If I'm not mistaken, it means Explain Like I'm 5.

[Alianna]

Alright, time to throw some reads out there so I can cringe at them in the postgame.

Flea The Magician

Flea basically led the no-lim wagon. I doubt that scum would advocate so strongly against a double elim when (a) doing so is statistically in their favour, and (b) town can’t really scumread them just for pushing a double elim.

Dunnstral

I thought some of their posts earlier in the day were based in moon logic, but I actually TR it because I’d think scum!Dunnstral would have talked over/clarified a lot of the mech stuff in scum chat.
In addition, there’s the stuff I talked about in 181.

MalcolmTucker

Light TR for now. I don’t have much for specific evidence but I don’t think they’ve done anything sus yet and I would not vote for them today.

GoldfishFromTheMoon

Also a light TR. 184 strikes me as town, not so sure about the walk-back in 252 but Goldfish said in a previous game that indecisiveness is a towntell for her.
I might have a better read after she follows through on her promise to do ISOs.

Cat.Jpeg

I don’t have a read on Cat right now. I don’t feel like they’ve done anything really AI.

Radical Rat

Their mech spec was decent, despite disagreement.
104 causes me to raise an eyebrow.
I’d like to hear explanations for the reads in 281.

furtiveglance

I have flip-flopped back and forth a hundred times on this slot.
furtive’s entrance was very jokingly scummy (scummier than mine, I am ironically ashamed of myself), but it seemed to be in a different way from the previous games I’ve played with them. It’s not something I can really explain, but I guess part of it is that the tone seemed a little more insecure (25, 30)? I’m not sure that it means anything though.
130 is basically admitting to OMGUS.
I didn’t have any issues with 167 like I remember someone else having.
175, 176, 191, 193 gets interesting. Very AtE-ish.
“Alianna do you think I’m town?” is about the most suspicious thing furtive could have said afterwards. It reads like they were desperately searching for me to TR them.
I could still see this all coming from town, but idk. I’ve got my eye on you.

Titus

It’s hard to get a very good read on Titus because she hasn’t posted much, but based on what she has posted, I’m putting her as a scumlean.
173 comes off manipulative.
I explained in 179 that I found it weird that Titus was only pushing one person on the no-lim wagon. I guess two since 93 was apparently directed at both Flea and furtive. If Titus is indeed scum, I would speculate that both her partner and the N1 target were voting to no-lim. That potentially implicates Cat.

Though I think both Titus and furtive are sus, I think it’s unlikely they’re the team.

[Alianna]

Sorry Goldie, I know you’re not a fan of wallposts.

[Alianna]

I would speculate that both her partner and the N1 target were voting to no-lim.

Why does Titus's alignment affect what the N1 target might do? I get that her and a partner may want to split their opinion so as not to seem aligned, but the N1 target wouldn't be privy to that at all.

I thought it might explain her strange associatives with the people on the no-lim wagon. She might have had reasons to call some of us information-denying scum and not mention others. That was, as I said, just me speculating though.

[Alianna]

Alianna seems town to me. They like to make statements like X's flip would give info on Y, even when it doesn't really make sense. I scumread them for it previously.

Can confirm I like to make statements that don't really make sense.

[Alianna]

I prefer coloured rankings but I guess that's fair.

[Alianna]

I have a list of 13 colours for every possible tier of towniness and scumminess. I spent an afternoon researching hex codes to make sure all the colours were of equal distance apart. I don't know why I bothered with that.

[Alianna]

Though I think both Titus and furtive are sus, I think it’s unlikely they’re the team.

Right. A is keeping their options open.

But you originally called them scum because they had you both as scum together. But they don't, and now you're saying they're keeping their options open instead.

How are their reads different from town who is giving a reads list?

No town would have their position. SR on me sure. SR on furtiveglance ok. There's no way anyone believes SS so a defense turns into not a team but individual, which is an excuse to try and keep the game static.

Have you even tried to see a world in which I say that as town?

[Alianna]

Firstly, Alianna said that me and Titus were both 'sus'. Not that we had exactly one scum in.

That is correct.

[Alianna]

Though I think both Titus and furtive are sus, I think it’s unlikely they’re the team.

Right. A is keeping their options open.

Nope, just uninformed.

[Alianna]

Titus' entire scumcase on me is based on the fact that I found two players individually suspicious despite thinking that they are not a team. Though I have little experience with mafia, I am under the impression that this is not an unusual thing for town to think. So it makes no sense to me that I'm being hard-scumread for it.

VOTE: Titus

This is explicitly not an OMGUS vote. It's just getting harder and harder to believe that the scumread on me and posts like 93 and 173 are just overconfidence.

[Alianna]

Consensus scumread appears to be Cat.Jpeg at the moment. I think Alianna is town

I definitely don't townread them.

[Alianna]

Consensus scumread appears to be Cat.Jpeg at the moment. I think Alianna is town

I definitely don't townread them.

Why? Your last readwall had them at null and this post suggest you have them near obvscum?

I guess it's just impossible to convey tone over the Internet.
Cat is still null. Perhaps a bit south of null. furtive said they were a consensus scumread. What I was trying to convey is that while that's not entirely true, they are at least not a townread for me.

[Alianna]

Dunn might be scum here.

Go on

Scum!Dunn struggles with content and I saw you elsewhere.

VOTE: Titus

You know Elitelling is bad and this doesn't fit your usual logic for a good vote. You also can struggle with content as scum, and from what I can see you're floundering here.

What is elitelling?

[Alianna]

In 281, Radical Rat has me as slightly scummy, but in 397 they're talking about me like I'm conftown. 355 does it too to a lesser extent. Kind of looks TMI.

[Alianna]

I want to hear what changed between those posts and I want more explanation from Rat on their reads other than Titus and furtive.

[Alianna]

In 281, Radical Rat has me as slightly scummy, but in 397 they're talking about me like I'm conftown. 355 does it too to a lesser extent. Kind of looks TMI.

This is a good catch which needs to be explained by RR.

Are they really talking about Alianna as confirmed town in 397 though? Their reads seems to have shifted here to wanting Titus eliminated (which I guess could be perceived as being quite opportunistic) but I don't see anything there which stops them from reasonably shifting back to Alianna at some point.

It was the way 397 was phrased and also the fact that they never explained why their read on me shifted.

[Alianna]

I still think Titus is scummier, but if she flips green that's something to look into.

[Alianna]

She did say "sheep me or get me out." And since I've learned my lesson about sheeping scumreads on myself, I feel obligated to leave my vote where it is. But also that's not something I'd ever expect scum to say. So I might re-evaluate my case. Any hammery shenanigans will be taken as a scumclaim.

[Alianna]

She did say "sheep me or get me out." And since I've learned my lesson about sheeping scumreads on myself, I feel obligated to leave my vote where it is. But also that's not something I'd ever expect scum to say. So I might re-evaluate my case. Any hammery shenanigans will be taken as a scumclaim.

This makes no sense. If you're town, unvote this player that you clearly read as town. Why would you listen to "sheep me or get out"? Those are not the only options.

443 was me being petty, and I really shouldn't do that.
That and similar comments have been giving me pause, but I do feel I have legitimate reasons to scumread Titus.

[Alianna]

Reckon a wagon on Alianna would have a much better chance of succeeding than one on Titus personally.

Can confirm I'm limbait.
(making a post on Titus rn)

[Alianna]

I'm moving my vote, so I'll give a quick scumcase on Alianna.

Initial posting is some mech talk, NAI in my book.

146 and 147 are the first posts that catch my eye - asking questions is fine, it's just easy for scum to do in order to look busy.

153 gives blanket null reads on everyone. But then 177 agrees with my crazed posting about Titus being 'incredibly scummy'.

299 is a big readslist with 2 scumreads. One is Titus - who they've been consistent with (e.g. 196), but the other one is me. They say we're both sus but not paired, which feels like too much of a 'gimme' at that point in the game - to point out how Titus and I clearly weren't paired scum.

363 I think is Alianna's scummiest post so far. I don't like the phrase "This is explicitly not an OMGUS vote". It smacks of self-awareness.

443 is unlikely to come from town. I don't like it at all because it seems to imply second thoughts on their scumread of Titus, but Alianna doesn't unvote. 445 is sitting on the fence and self-justifying.

(I hope I'm not scumreading town!Alianna 2 games running...)

UNVOTE: Radical Rat

VOTE: Alianna

At risk of digging myself further into this hole, here's a quick anti-scumcase on Alianna.

146-147 - This isn't evidence for why I'm scum. Yes, it would be convenient for me to do that, but you also admitted that asking questions is fine. So this is really just padding.

153-177 - Before 153, a whole lot of nothing happened. Things picked up at approximately 167 when you expressed suspicion of RR and Titus. In the next ten posts, Dunnstral accused you of being disingenuous, Titus posted the giant red flag that is 173, and then you started posting crazedly. "Agreed with all of this" was lazy phrasing on my part, but I did think Dunnstral misinterpreted you and 173 was manipulative. It would be weird if my reads didn't change over that period.

No comment on 299.

363 - As I said in 291, this game has been rife with misunderstandings, so I thought I should clarify that my vote on Titus had nothing to do with the fact that she voted for me.
Yes, it was self-aware, but I’m self-aware in general. For example, I know that making this defense post probably won’t convince anyone I’m town, I just don’t really care.
Refer back to Newbie 2090. TTTT thought my entrance looked a bit contrived, which it was. I was aware of this fact and admitted to it. You actually pointed out that town can be self-aware as well as mafia, and you were right. I was town. You should not be scumreading me for self-awareness.

443 just sucked.

My vote is still on Titus because I think she and RR are the most likely here to flip scum and her wagon has more support. I wouldn’t mind voting for either and might still consider switching in the next 6 hours (won’t be on again until the deadline has passed, if I’m still alive).

[Alianna]

UNVOTE:
Having second thoughts for the one hundred and second time, may or may not have found something fishy, need to reread some stuff, but it’s way too late to do that rn. May put this back later.

[Alianna]

Let it be said that I also was online when the day start was posted. Is that relevant though?

[Alianna]

I don't like the look of the Titus wagon, apart from Goldfish.

Could you explain why Goldfish is an exception here?

[Alianna]

I don't like the look of the Titus wagon, apart from Goldfish.

Could you explain why Goldfish is an exception here?

Strong gut townread which I explained in 304. Do you scumread Goldfish, or are you just trying to make me doubt?

Just fyi, I would consider this a scum+ post from you. It's just probing without offering any of your own analysis.

No, I don’t scumread Goldfish. I forgot she was your top TR.

[Alianna]

I haven't really changed my thoughts since yesterday. I think the Alianna wagon looked pretty clean, and might be my favourite vote in today: Part 2, even more so now that Titus is definitely town. Radical Rat still giving me bad vibes along with Dunnstral (or their replacement), but obviously only 2 mafia. I've changed my position on Cat slightly, they seemed to really want a vote on Radical Rat so might be town.

Do you have any thoughts about assosiatives?

You have a lot of scum reads which makes me think this is a "if X is scum then Y isn't, but if X is town Y is definitely scum" kind of situation. so who do you think is paired or definitely isn't?

I have a scumpool of 3 right now. [Alianna, Dunnstral, Radical Rat]

So I don't really need to do associatives, because we can run through all three of these.

The thing is that Dunnstral was a townread of both Alianna and RR so they don't fit in, which is why I still think Alianna/RR is most likely.

But I need to rethink things. It's a new day.

I don’t townread Dunn anymore. Note to self - preflip associatives are a bad idea.

[Alianna]

Wagon on me was interesting and draws parallels with 2092 but I don’t want to comment too much until I’ve thought more.

[Alianna]

Flea voting for Titus slightly dampens my townread there.

How so?
For me it did the opposite, pushing an elimination on the intended nightkill doesn't make sense for scum unless the wagon is on their partner.

This cements my TR on Flea. scum!Flea would have no reason to revote Titus over putting me at E-1 there.

[Alianna]

We should stop and think this through.

As I mentioned just before the end of D1, scum would have Not wanted Titus to be eliminated. While this doesn't 100% clear her wagon, it's probably safe to assume that at least one scum would have been trying to redirect, and Titus's main counter wagon was Alianna, which saw moderate success, albeit not enough. From this, it's a pretty safe bet that Alianna is Town, and since we know she's been a contentious slot, it's more likely that scum have her lined up for elimination than nightkill.

VOTE: Alianna

This is ballsy and I'm not sure I agree with it. The Inform ability doesn't mean much if town doesn't trust the informed, and if we vote me, they don't ("they" as in "the rest of the town", I've been scumread for this before).
I support informing Goldie but I'd consider alternatives.

[Alianna]

I don’t townread Dunn anymore. Note to self - preflip associatives are a bad idea.

I think we all need to rethink things for today,

Of your scumpool I think Alianna and RR are possible scum, but not together, and I townlean Dunnstral

Goldfish you have said you townread dunnstral 3 or 4 times but I cant find where you explained why. Please explain or link to a post if i missed it.
Also Alianna can you explain your post too?

A good piece of my townread on Dunnstral was because I thought it was unlikely they were paired with Titus, who I scumread. Now that Titus is confirmed town, that point is irrelevant.

[Alianna]

Spoiler: We don't need another hero!

As the sun set 8 people went to their houses. In the morning.... 8 still remained.

The Day 2 Ability Phase shall be: Inform
The mafia has chosen a player, vote a player you want to learn the alignment of the player chosen by the mafia!


Votecount 2.0.0

Day 2: Taste- So many tasty things to eat

Not Voting: Radical Rat, MalcolmTucker, furtiveglance, GoldfishFromTheMoon, Dunnstral, Cat.Jpeg, Alianna, Flea The Magician

With 8 alive it takes 5 to make a decision.
Deadline:(expired on 2022-05-17 00:07:08)

Beautiful. Sorry Titus <3 so this shot is either random or someone who played with Titus before knows she powers up as the game goes on.
Dunn isn't the type to make that shot I don't think, I think Rat might but might suggest it more than push it.
Doesn't eliminate either of them and both are under close watch today.

Let it be said that I was online when the daystart was posted

Let it be said that I also was online when the day start was posted. Is that relevant though?

LAMIST much?

Flea voting for Titus slightly dampens my townread there. I think Goldfish is the most town for me.

I would like to inform Goldfish.

VOTE: Goldfish

Hoping you elaborate on this.

Spoiler: We don't need to know the way home

Wagon on me was interesting and draws parallels with 2092 but I don’t want to comment too much until I’ve thought more.

Again, hoping you elaborate here.

I've thought about this inform ability a bit more. It will most likely give us a confirmed town, because mafia wouldn't want to out themselves. I think based on yesterday the player we will be informed of is probably Flea/Malcolm, for being consensus townreads.

I think we've actually forced mafias hand here which amuses me. Fun thing is finding out who they've cleared.
For me Goldfish is not the one to inform here, but, Mafia also cannot lie without outing themselves unless they "clear" themselves. So optimal scumplay here is vote their NK or vote themselves.

Spoiler: All we want is life beyond

I find it humorous that because Titus was NK'd it's almost like we didn't eliminate twice. They would hate that. Im going to look at the game again with the knowledge 2 people knew Titus was the nightkill. The final vote count has me, furtive, malcolm, and alianna not voting titus but i dont think thats too useful because i think the mafia (at least one of them) ended up voting titus in the end to avoid getting voted themselves (rr or dunnstral). Also once again I townlean alianna for how absurd it was for them to unvote on Titus. Early in the game though might yeild more information.

Titus is screaming at me from the dead thread. I can promise you that. 3 eliminations become one and we're on evens which is what I was trying to avoid.

You need to be aware of how you're perceived and why. That's the first step to being involved in the town. If you just push your own agenda and ignore us all the time, it's not easy townread you. You didn't really engage with my idea of giving Goldfish the info, what do you think about that? I get that you prefer yourself, but do think Goldfish is scum? Or just a likely nightkill target? What's the issue here.

Mhmm. Why pick on Dunn and not goldfish for this?

Spoiler: The thunderdome.

We should stop and think this through.

As I mentioned just before the end of D1, scum would have Not wanted Titus to be eliminated. While this doesn't 100% clear her wagon, it's probably safe to assume that at least one scum would have been trying to redirect, and Titus's main counter wagon was Alianna, which saw moderate success, albeit not enough. From this, it's a pretty safe bet that Alianna is Town, and since we know she's been a contentious slot, it's more likely that scum have her lined up for elimination than nightkill.

VOTE: Alianna

Actually a good shout. Hoping we get more solid stances from Alianna though and I'm not entirely sold without a reread there.

We should stop and think this through.

As I mentioned just before the end of D1, scum would have Not wanted Titus to be eliminated. While this doesn't 100% clear her wagon, it's probably safe to assume that at least one scum would have been trying to redirect, and Titus's main counter wagon was Alianna, which saw moderate success, albeit not enough. From this, it's a pretty safe bet that Alianna is Town, and since we know she's been a contentious slot, it's more likely that scum have her lined up for elimination than nightkill.

VOTE: Alianna

This logic is bizarre and cyclical because it assumes town!Alianna initially. The way I see it, Alianna was the counter wagon to confirmed town. That's the only thing I care about. Alianna does not get towncred for being the counter wagon to the nightkill, because that implies that me/Malcolm are scum. Which is untrue/I would be shocked if Malcolm was mafia. So Alianna is no more town than yesterday for me.

Your logic is amazing.

Rat gains cred, Dunn gains sus, cat/malc/furtive incriminating each other? huh.

Re: 507 and 509 being LAMIST
I don't get what you mean by this. I did not read 507 as making any attempt to project alignment. It just looked like Goldfish being Goldfish. I can tell you that the same goes for my post 509.

Re: furtive's 566 criticizing Dunn's self-vote
Self-voting isn't auto-sus here. From an individual perspective, it makes sense to do so as either alignment because you're informed of your own alignment. The problem is that your fellow townies are not, so overall the pro-town decision is to give the information to somebody trusted. Goldfish is widely townread, so there isn't really an issue with her self-vote, but Dunn has been controversial.
Slightly related thought, scum could try to get a controversial player informed to sabotage the ability's effectiveness. I like 576 even less now.

[Alianna]

I know I'm town.
I think it's very unlikely that either Flea or Goldfish is scum.
I also think that if the pair was RR/Dunn, they would have no reason to sit on the Titus wagon when a viable and favourable counterwagon existed. So they're not paired.
Therefore, there is at least one scum in furtive/Cat/Malcolm.

[Alianna]

It's true that if Alianna's scum, Titus is a better elimination for scum. However, scum could have easily moved onto literally anyone else, and they didn't. That tells me they were okay with at least one of the leading wagons, and since Titus was bad for them... Must've been Alianna.

If you think scum weren't on Titus yesterday, your view of the game is wrong. That's all I can say.

Can you explain this further?

[Alianna]

From my POV, at least one of them has to be. I find it hard to see a world in which my wagon was all town because I know scum would want to eliminate me over the NK target. Either it's you or there's scum in your townreads.

[Alianna]

VOTE: GoldfishFromTheMoon

Next vote will be the hammer.
This seems like the most viable option. Obviously being informed myself would be nice and I'm basically guaranteed not the NK, but I don't think it's pro-town or worth it to push for that.
If anyone has any objections to Goldfish, speak now.

[Alianna]

I don't think Goldie is an unlikely target, but Flea had much more of a presence D1 that I think would draw the NK.

[Alianna]

On second thought, the lack of a real counterwagon might suggest that Goldie really is slated to die or that she's the BP.

UNVOTE:

[Alianna]

VOTE: GoldfishFromTheMoon

I've made up my mind. I have my reasons, but I don't think it's wise to elaborate until D3.

[Alianna]

Even if you don’t believe this is a good vote, we can at least get some sort of info out of it, whereas if we don’t vote, we get nothing. Vote Goldie 2022!

[Alianna]

Alianna, out of interest, where do you sit on Dunn now? I thought your attempt to clear/TR them early on was very weak but I see you're now not so sure on that given Titus' elimination. You've not particularly pushed Dunn too strongly, I'd say, given you don't seem to think they're town, and I'm wary this could be an attempt at distancing, but I'd potentially be more likely to TR you if you're willing to look at a Dunn wagon. Of course, if Dunn was town, you'd then inversely look a bit scummier for this if you were suddenly willing to jump on it, so interested to hear where your thoughts are.

I'm probably going to redo my readslist but TL;DR for now is that they're in my PoE, very likely one of Dunn/RR but need to decide which.

[Alianna]

I was making a scumcase and then my laptop died and the whole post got deleted ASDFGHJKL!!!

[Alianna]

@Dunnstral can you give a readlist and explian some of your thought process? I feel like most of your posts are about if we should double elim or not or defending your vote on Titus. I don't scumread you for voting Titus and originally to me her posts looked very scummy but I had more of a gut feeling that she was town, I get why you voted her though. What I do scumread you for is the lack of solve-driven input from you and the lack of expressing any townreads.

Towny: Goldfish, Alianna, Flea
Null: Radical Rat, radital cat
Scummy: FurtiveGlance, Malcolm

That is where I am at with reads

As for thought process, what do you want to know?

These reads are really strange.
You think that:
1) Yesterday was town/town
2) I knew that and didn't want to condemn the nightkill
3) I loudly townread the nightkill and begged for a pivot to another town
4) Malcolm and I have paired openly and townread each other all game as the worst scumteam ever

Scumcase me. How did you get here?

1 is just true.
If Dunn thinks you’re scum and is right, 2 is just implied as long as you aren’t scum with me.
3 is something you did whether you intended to or not.
4 is just not true. Malcolm didn’t even TR you until the readslist in 321, and in fact expressed slight suspicion of you. I will say though that I don’t see you/Malcolm as a team.

Not a fan of this post. It’s taking things that are totally reasonable to think and making them sound insane. It also implies I’m lockscum.
And then in the follow-up, you decided Dunn was more likely and unvoted me. I’m having a hard time seeing that sequence of posts as natural.

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Alianna]

Among other things, of course.

[Alianna]

I did have more to say about you, but I didn’t feel like redoing the whole thing on my phone so I just replied to the post that pinged me the most. I realize I didn’t exactly convey that. Later today I can do that though.

[Alianna]

The other main point I had planned to bring up about furtive was that their progression on me was odd. They pivoted onto me very quickly and just decided their mind was made up. Perhaps I'm placing too much weight on past games, but this is not what I would expect from someone who has misread me before. I was going to say the unvote was opportunistic, but after re-reading the post I don't think I can say that with any certainty.

I see that furtive posted some other stuff, so I'm going to read through that now.

[Alianna]

I also disagree about my defence. It's less 'I wouldn't do that' and more 'No one would do that'.

I really don't think that's true. There are clear benefits to not voting out the NK target. I cannot for the life of me come up with the words to explain why but this feels like you did that.

[Alianna]

Okay, so this is interesting.

I'm at E-2 out of nowhere. That means at least 1 town is voting for me, probably 2.

I feel wronged. I'm trying to solve, I'm being open, I'm giving reads.

I called Titus town and you killed them anyway, so you guys haven't helped me solve at all.

What I'm saying is that I think I'm playing well, townreading town and scumreading scum, and other town aren't playing as well.

I thought I was a pretty likely nightkill, but judging by today scum probably think they can condemn me off the back of a bad start.

I've kind of gone off Alianna being scum, I'm seeing Dunnstral/Radical Rat right now.

The worst vote on me comes from Radical Rat. 707 ^^ looks really sneaky and desperate to appear uninformed by talking about confbias and stuff.

I think town will lose if I'm eliminated today, it's as simple as that for me.

I'd love a Radical Rat vote today, maybe even more than a Dunnstral vote. But I do think Dunnstral is likely scum as well.

Practically we have a problem with today's vote. Flea/Alianna/RR/Dunnstral will all end up voting me, whereas me/Malcolm/Cat/Goldfish will vote the counter - either Dunnstral or RR.

Dunnstral, would you vote for Radical Rat instead of me?

Alianna, will you vote either Dunnstral or RR?

If I'm wrong and you're town, I'm going to feel really bad about voting you. If you're scum, congrats, the AtE almost worked.

What concerns me here is the last two points.
You said earlier in the post that you think Dunn/RR is the most likely team and now you're asking Dunn if they'll vote RR?
The last point is the second time that you've appealed to me specifically. Makes me think you've got an ulterior motive.

[Alianna]

On second thought, the fact that your thoughts have been so all-over-the-place today is probably town-indicative.

UNVOTE:

I'll see myself out now.

[Alianna]

Why do I do this to myself?

[Alianna]

I think there is exactly 1 scum in RR/furtive. It looks to me like a town/scum interaction, and if one of them flips town it's going to look really bad for the other.

Although throwing a crazy conspiracy out there (this is probably definitely wrong) what if it's both of them? Together, and this is a crazy megabus that's been going since day 1.

I'm thinking this too. Probably going to vote RR.

[Alianna]

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Why would you do that instead of voting for furtive? Do you not scumread them anymore?

[Alianna]

Not to say that I think you should vote furtive, but if you still scumread them both, it doesn't make sense that you would vote on a wagon with no chance of going through.

[Alianna]

I have things to say that must wait until tomorrow.

Will you give us any hints?

Suffice to say, I have opinions about why the Inform was chosen, and who might have been BPed, but I don't want to elaborate any further on that until we actually get the information. Otherwise, in the hypothetical scenario that you turn out to be scum, you could tailor your answers to either match or counter my expectations, and then the analysis wouldn't be useful anymore

Ok this is meaningless. Does anyone understand or value this?

What I think RR is saying is that they have expectations for who a hypothetical scum!Goldie would or would not claim to be informed of, but if they shared those thoughts now, she would be able to take that into consideration. I think it's a valid viewpoint if RR is town, but as Cat said, they could be scum using this to try to get us to keep them alive.

[Alianna]

They did also clarify that it was a light townread.

[Alianna]

Furtive digging in deeper I see.

Whats wrong with Dunn looking towards candidates?

I don't think looking towards other candidates is scummy in and of itself, but with less than a day left on the deadline, if you have two scumreads you should vote the one that actually has a chance of going through. The vanity vote was shady.

[Alianna]

Also, the reasoning in 763 doesn't really make sense.

[Alianna]

Ah theres 6 hours left and the plurality is only 2 votes

I was going to throw a vote onto RR and make it three, but Dunn's vote has confused me. I think you're town, so I'd like to hear your promised scumcase.

[Alianna]

Alianna when Radical Rat flips, we will look for their partner. If you don't want to be scumread tomorrow, now is your chance to vote them and put the spotlight on Flea/Dunnstral.

I have no intention of letting you be the elim today.

[Alianna]

VOTE: Radical Rat
I misunderstood how the voting system works. This is going here unless I change my mind in the next 5 hours.

[Alianna]

This has better flip red. I don’t want to be in MeLo tomorrow.

[Alianna]

Alianna when Radical Rat flips, we will look for their partner. If you don't want to be scumread tomorrow, now is your chance to vote them and put the spotlight on Flea/Dunnstral.

This is a horrible post, flagrantly manipulative, and I cannot comprehend how it actually worked.

That wasn’t actually why I voted you, must have quoted it by mistake.

[Alianna]

Intent to hammer Radical Rat.

Not that it means anything with 4 hours till deadline.
This is going through no matter what I do.

If I were you, I’d just hammer. As you said, it’s going through already so no use waiting the extra 4 hours.

[Alianna]

Ah theres 6 hours left and the plurality is only 2 votes

I was going to throw a vote onto RR and make it three, but Dunn's vote has confused me. I think you're town, so I'd like to hear your promised scumcase.

Scumcase was 767

Thanks.

[Alianna]

Cat's scumcase was good.
And you guys are right intent is kinda pointless in this setup so I'll end this.

VOTE: radical rat

Yeah, the third point especially.

[Alianna]

Cat's scumcase was good.
And you guys are right intent is kinda pointless in this setup so I'll end this.

VOTE: radical rat

Wait, that wasn’t a hammer. There’s 8 people so it takes 5.

[Alianna]

Not to say that I think you should vote furtive, but if you still scumread them both, it doesn't make sense that you would vote on a wagon with no chance of going through.

Why does it have no chance of going through?

At the time, you’d have had to get two other people to vote with you on it. It was so close to deadline and iirc there wasn’t really much sus on Malcolm so it didn’t seem very likely.

[Alianna]

Three things.

1. We’re screwed.
2. Goldie, results?
3. furtive, you have some

explaining

to do.

[Alianna]

Good news is that if we hit scum today, we should have either a confirmed inno or a confirmed guilty tomorrow.

[Alianna]

I think we target someone whose alignment would give us the most information, but not the person we think is most likely to be scum because we need to eliminate them.

[Alianna]

That's probably why scum gave us the track ability.

[Alianna]

At the moment, I'm inclined to trust the results. I've been finding Malcolm hard to read, so that's good news.
Off of literally nothing, I'm pinning the team as Cat and furtive. Knowing me, tomorrow I could very well be saying it's Dunnstral and one of the dead people.

[Alianna]

@mod

Thread title still says it's Day 2.

[Alianna]

Hello Alianna, shall we do some real time interaction?

1) Do you buy that Goldfish is telling the truth?

2) What do you think of a Dunnstral/Cat.Jpeg team?

3) What are your thoughts on who we should track today?

Apologies that I didn't get back to you in "real time."

1. I do. Malcolm is only scum if Goldie is scum with him. I just don't think so. Goldie is painfully innocent and I really hope I'm not getting pocketed.

2. I'm just going to colour-code these so I don't have to say who posted every time. I'm too lazy to multiquote. References to Dunn's posts are red, Cat's are purple.

82 looks like an awkward attempt at distancing.

148 is the justification for a vote on Cat and is a false accusation (which I pointed out). Idk if scum would falsely accuse their partner.

Disagreement on Dunn's math is NAI.

306 is not an interaction with Dunn but it’s here for context. This looks like a POV slip that implicates you and Cat.

307 is where Dunn catches it. Looks even less like Dunn/Cat now.

353 turns around onto Dunn.

It would be really weird for both scumbuddies to vote themselves at the beginning of D2. Neither was in a position to vote the other. I don’t think a Cat/Dunn scumteam would choose Inform knowing that.
Nothing notable in elimination phase D2.

So no, I do not see a Cat/Dunn scumteam.

3. I'm not quite there yet.

[Alianna]

I'm delighted to inform you all that Malcomtucker is aligned with the town.

I don't know if I trust this.

I don’t know if I trust you.

[Alianna]

Actually, since my PoE is Cat/furtive/Dunn and Cat/Dunn isn’t really a thing, that means it’s furtive either way. And furtive/Dunn would be pretty crazy.
So I think I want to eliminate furtive and VOTE: Cat.Jpeg to be tracked.
Unless Goldie is pocketing me. Still going to park my vote there for now though.

[Alianna]

If you want to eliminate me, the game ends. Scum won't have put me as the nightkill because I'm the most likely miselimination today.

I mean, we’re not trying to hit the NK target. We’re more likely to hit scum and we gain way more from it.
“The game ends” doesn’t really mean anything. Anyone could say that.

[Alianna]

I would predict that Goldie is the target.

[Alianna]

It has nothing to do with her being informed, she’s just a UTR.

[Alianna]

It feels like this wagon is growing way too quickly

What do you mean by this?

[Alianna]

Just generally like the wagon building up and going through right at the beginning of the day before we've had much discussion and people haven't contributed yet. But I guess that's just what happens when its later in the game with less players alive so it doesn't take as many votes to get something through.

Ok, makes sense. I don’t think we should rush to hammer this, we should ideally get a decent idea of who we’re eliminating before we finalize our track target.

[Alianna]

If we have to eliminate the track target, so be it, but I’d rather avoid that if at all possible.

[Alianna]

Yeah, we should eliminate Dunnstral. They'll vote for me, everyone else take sides.

Who do you think is their partner?

[Alianna]

Yeah, we should eliminate Dunnstral. They'll vote for me, everyone else take sides.

Who do you think is their partner?

You or cat, I'm assuming Goldfish is legit.

Well now I think they might just be clear here.
I know they aren’t paired with me or Malcolm.
You or Cat seem like unlikely partners, Cat I explained and you would have to be doing quite a bus, plus I’m already planning to elim you so I’d have a chance to reconsider.
The only possibility that might worry me is Goldfish. I don’t know that hypothetical scum!her could get away with claiming the inno on partner!Dunn, so she’d probably tell the truth in that scenario. Actually, now that I think about it, it would be more optimal to just claim inno on yourself in that situation.

[Alianna]

@Goldie and anyone else who hasn’t voiced an answer to this yet

Who do you think is the scumteam?

[Alianna]

No objections on my part.

[Alianna]

@Goldie and anyone else who hasn’t voiced an answer to this yet

Who do you think is the scumteam?

Also, @Goldie, why do you townread Cat?

[Alianna]

furtive/Dunn TvT is only possible if Goldie is scum, which I don't think is likely.
I'm probably voting furtive here but I would like to hear answers from Goldie to the questions posed in 858 and 912.

[Alianna]

If Goldfish is mafia then she knew we would'nt track her though. If she aint mafia then she's almost definitely the NK. If she's town we get a Malcolm clear too. I think shes the best vote because it's likely shes mafia and im not sure enough about everyone else to risk the game (except I still townread furtive and strongly townread Alianna). Also Furtive and Dunnstral pls unvote, if you are town (and at least one of you must be) you're putting each other at e-1 in a way (because if another town votes one of you then mafia can just jump on and we will lose)

Neither player was functionally at E-1 at that point. Assuming TvS, the townie already has a scum voting for them and the scum isn't going to vote themself.

[Alianna]

furtive, reads are not the only thing that determines whether someone is scummy. The fact that you led RR’s elim is not enough to scumread you on its own. It is that, in addition to your vote patterns on D1, in addition to associative logic, in addition to the fact that you’ve made more manipulative posts and AtEs than I can count, that makes me scumread you.

[Alianna]

Sure, but you have to persuade the town with your arguments. This is not to say that you haven’t made arguments, but many of them are augmented by some questionable tactics. It’s so easy for scum to say things like “if you vote me, we lose,” “would you consider voting X?” and “Alianna do you think I’m town?” but those things don’t mean much.

[Alianna]

^
Oof, that was a disjointed mess. I need sleep.

[Alianna]

I'm down to four possible pairs (and if the scumteam isn't on my list, I will be very disappointed in myself).

- Cat/furtive
- Goldfish/furtive
- Goldfish/Dunn
- Goldfish/Malcolm

I'll need to go through Goldfish's interactions to check the last three.

I've ruled out Goldfish/Cat because Cat can't bus here. They're being tracked, so an elim on their partner is an auto-loss for scum.
I also don't think Goldfish is the NK target. Assuming that one of the listed pairs is the scumteam, either Goldfish is scum or Cat is scum. scum!Cat has no incentive to push the NK target. However, they have a huge incentive to kill someone else, push the person we expect to be NKed, and sell the idea that it can't go wrong.

[Alianna]

I really don't see it.

[Alianna]

I've thought some more, and there's still more than one possibility that makes sense. But I think I need to make a decision.
I hope I'm not voting on the third mislim of this game.

VOTE: furtiveglance

E-1

If it's Cat/Dunnstral, I'll take the L.

[Alianna]

Please unvote Alianna most of your possibilities have Goldfish as scum. Why are you voting furtive

furtive is scummier, despite having less possible partners.

[Alianna]

The lack of a hammer confirms we are not dealing with a scum!Cat/town!furtive scenario.

[Alianna]

But UNVOTE: for a second.

[Alianna]

Nope, VOTE: furtiveglance. If scum!Goldie comes in here and hammers this, GG, but I think my mind is made up.

[Alianna]

Dang it.

[Alianna]

Well played (or just very badly played by me?).

[Alianna]

It was definitely not good play on my part that won us the melo, I was very lurky.

You did a good job imitating your townplay though (at least what I’ve seen of your townplay).

[Alianna]

I declare you a scumhunting god.
(not in a mean way, of course, apology accepted and sorry I voted you)

[Alianna]

Well played mafia. I feel bad for Cat, they were right the whole time D:

^

[Alianna]

I'd naturally be suspicious of the people involved in the conflict, but maybe the mafia are hiding in the shadows and watching us eat ourselves. I have no idea who it is right now.

[Alianna]

Seems like y’all did just that.

[Alianna]

Should have listened to past me.

[Alianna]

she probably thinks you are town.

Interestingly at this point in the game I don't town read alianna yet...
In the past two games with her (one which I was in and one which I read and later replaced into) I was able to townread Alianna by about page 2 or 3 purely based on tone, and she continued to project townie vibes for the rest of the games.
At this point in time she doesn't have as much the town charisma she normally does, I don't know if this is me not picking up on it, a changing playstyle, her not having as many posts yet or scum!Alianna. But at the moment Alianna is flvery firmly a null read for me.

I’m interested to know if this was genuine. Would you still have thought this if you were town or were you just planting seeds of doubt? Because I agree that I was definitely a little different in the beginning of D1.

[Alianna]

Ok, interesting. I thought I was genuinely projecting less town vibes than before, but perhaps not.

[Alianna]

I TOLD YOU SO
I'm not angry, just disappointed
GG Goldfish and Malcolm, who did you actually bulletproof.

Sorry, Cat. :(

[Alianna]

I hope the mod gets here soon, I want to read the scum PT.

[Alianna]

POST 1000 IS MINE!

[Alianna]

I hope the mod gets here soon, I want to read the scum PT.

We tried not to gloat too much...

Uhh yeah....
I did a bit of gloating. Pls don't hate me for it. (;

I forgive you guys.