KTaNE [game over!]

[Bell]

actually explains why Titus/Glion were made bomb defusers too

he probably wanted both of them to blow up

Mmhmm.

[Bell]

Pooky I don't think the approach of pointing out everything wrong is likely to lead to an accurate approach in general even if it happens to be Bell this time

I don’t really think an accurate approach is the goal here.

[Bell]

I blew up Titus.

[Bell]

Andante.
I love you, but please do not try to clear dwlee if BP baltar flips scum or town

like what even is this

I was asking them not to investigate dwlee when we would know their alignment without an investigate because baltar’s flip would likely settle Dwlee’s alignment.

[Bell]

But I mean, if that was the right play than I made the wrong play by sparing guiltylion. :X

[Bell]

Andante and enchant dragged me into sparing GL.
It was against my will. :< I’m weak to peer pressure.

[Bell]

Yeah pretty much. I’m scum just shooting the shit with my best bud and player that is totally trying to read me, Pookythemagicalbear.

[Bell]

Yeah, and I would’ve gotten away with it too if it weren’t for you meddlesome magicalbears.

[Bell]

I’m pretty clever aren’t I?
Heh. Compliments will get you nowhere. I’m immune.

[Bell]

<3

[Bell]

Yeah. Get Pooky when I’m dead tho.
You know, in case I flip town.
It’s unlikely, I know. But if for some reason I did flip town.
You know, that’s my request.
I know my reads have been real bad this game, which is uh, where pooky is going with this after the future flip.
But you know. As a favor.

[Bell]

this has been a really tough game for me guys.
I know everyone suspects me, and for good reason.
I had to do something to improve my position which is why I spare’d GL but not Titus.
I just didn’t have the miselims I needed to win.
Enchant and Andante, they both are united against me.
And Mena’s death post saying I was scum was really the nail in my coffin.
I’m sorry, Mala, baltar, . Whoever the third scum was and Pooky.

I let you all down.
I…I…

I had a lot of fun thanks.

Anyway! Good night all.
Keep researching and doing your best.

[Bell]

Ugh, I sound so smug. Sorry

[Bell]

No, I think I’m having a stroke or I have a gambling addiction which may explain the GL spare.

[Bell]

Well, no, because I don’t really need it because Andante and Enchant are easy miselims and Mena died pointing the finger directly at you and hard town reading me.
I didn’t need to do the additional work and I would always shoot every time a shot was available if I were scum. But you know that, I’m not a hard read and you ‘misreading’ me here basically confirms that you’re scum. You have my number, you called it this game. But now you’re misdialing.

I don’t really mind if I die as long as Pooky eventually dies.

[Bell]

Uh, I have a lot of off games.
So it’s just the standard now.

[Bell]

I’m fine with that too.

[Bell]

Andante and enchant dragged me into sparing GL.
It was against my will. :< I’m weak to peer pressure.

Really.

IRL I have a hard time saying no to things.
But not really in this case. I’m just making a joke.

[Bell]

Yeah, i realised, it was just lame.

Yeah. I agree.
It’s just awkward. Because I think Pooky is scum and I can’t really take their case against me seriously.
Because it’s simply too convoluted for me, though I know me saying that will result in Pooky trying to say, ‘actually, it isn’t that convoluted” been down this road before.

[Bell]

Bell, why you killed Titus actually?

It’s honestly hard for me to justify myself. I guess the difference is that, for the most part I had more confidence on GL town when he showed up to a party he wouldn’t have invited himself to if he were scum and Pooky is a big enough threat that I felt like if I didn’t take the risk we might lose.

[Bell]

We were the exact same group that blew up Titus after all. Enchant and andante are pretty unstable and I didn’t endorse GL town much in thread. It felt more necessary I guess. ESP. Because I thought it was just mena going into the previous day and once that flipped I was back in oh shit mode.

[Bell]

Who the fuck you call unstable.

You two! You two are very random and confusing and I never know what you’re going to do! It’s really hard to read or understand you two! I don’t understand your logic!

[Bell]

2 more or 3 more votes I think?

[Bell]

Why are we even talking about this?

[Bell]

I’m sorry for oppressing you Pooky.
I didn’t mean it.

[Bell]

Oh, I didn’t realize dwlee was voting you.

[Bell]

It would have been terrible if you got hammered early before you finished.
So i’mma let you.

[Bell]

Sounds sensible to me. I love handing off responsibility to someone else.

[Bell]

It worked because I forgot about it

[Bell]

i just had a dream where catboi came back from the dead and called me an idiot for suspecting Bell

I mean.

[Bell]

I’m really easy to read Dwlee.
Ask me why I’m not scum this game.

[Bell]

I’m still cool with dying as long as pooky dies right after.

[Bell]

Now granted, Enchant has literally revived a town player as scum before so maybe I shouldn't be expecting him to follow a heal strategy even if his partners suggested one

It’s pooky tho.

[Bell]

I’m super easy to read though. If you ask I’ll case myself for you.

[Bell]

VP baltar’s posts give me incredibly mixed feelings.
There first vote made me wanna vote them.
And then the rest of their posts were chill and cool and good.

Are they using their trauma for good or evil

Dwlee99

>:(

I mean, what have you done that I should read into and sort you from? Like, if you expect a TR from "IM ENTERING AND VOTING ANDANTE" think again, cause like, I've been on top of this game, trying my best to sort people, and you literally just "don't care! andante maf!!" like, makes me feel like I'm wasting my time if you are town, so... not a great feeling, cause if I said something you hate, again, feel free to point it out, ask questions...

but yeah, got stuff to do, and if I didn't post my thoughts, yall are getting like an entirely new readslist tomorrow..

Andante, psychoanalyze this post for me please.

And by that I mean, explain where all this angst is coming from.

I'mma go read a book now.
Tbh, I'm somehow not town reading anyone yet.
I have some eh scum reads tho.

I would kill to have more town reads right about now

Town

Bell

Lol. What are your scum reads?

Baltar, Cephrir.

VOTE: lukewarm

Sure

Trown!!!
As a certain worm with a phd likes to say.

Gotta go to work. Gunna run late.
Nvm on vp baltar scum.
Too wholesome. Must be town.

First time replacing??? It's like mafia, but better in *almost* every conceivable way!

Im not sure I buy Luke as scum but I'll leave it at that

Why are you leaving it at that

My experience with MT has not resulted in me getting a read off of them yet. But my experience is that they’re pretty hedgy as town, so I don’t agree with GL.

I think this more nuanced statement is more true than the previous one. Not sure if scumz MT tho.

I wish I were posting like this as scum. But no. And it should be decently apparent to people.

It's pretty apparent yeah.

I feel bad that I scum read baltar for their effort post.
The reason I am compelled to scum read it, is because their reads, read like characterizations first and sorting people second.

I’m also confused about their positive views on Titus. It’s not all bad, the characterization sort of stops in the second half of the list, but I’m not terribly sure what to make of it. Or why some reads are there, that are, essentially filler for “dude is lurking” etc

Hi Baltar, are you scum?
You have to tell me If you are.

You got the reference. Though i have no idea where the reference originated.

Also cephrir continues to bleh, GL continues to be bleh, bulge is bleh, the fire guy is bleh.
Bleh bleh bleh.

we can kill somebody but i call dibs on it not being me

I called dibs on it being you even before you replaced in.

Also cephrir continues to bleh, GL continues to be bleh, bulge is bleh, the fire guy is bleh.
Bleh bleh bleh.

Feel like we kind of agree on the game except fire. Setting luke aside, are there specific things about fire that bug you?

Already spoke about this, it's very much a lukewarm scum read I have, though their wry observations and snide insinuations (this is a movie reference, not actually something they did on the latter half) isn't helping.

You got the reference. Though i have no idea where the reference originated.

Also cephrir continues to bleh, GL continues to be bleh, bulge is bleh, the fire guy is bleh.
Bleh bleh bleh.

Maybe you just think I'm a bleh person.

Uh huh.

I'm willing to bet the day 1 elimination on fireisredsir

I mean, I'm pretty convinced VP is maf... is VP your partner, and you're trying to distract us or something? like, why not VP?

I don't really think Bell!scum sees VPB!scum post an effort wall-post readlist and then decides to call it out for being trash

This is true, I don't usually have the willingness to slap down my own partners when they put in earnest efforts.
Uh, assuming they're scum this game, which I'm not really. I've been really up and down on them all game.

Pretty much, one of the things about Baltar that I find sort of difficult to parse (in that I naturally TR people for this) is that they seem to or tend to try collaborating on players they're signaling that they think are town.

It's hard to tell if they're tactically buddying certain players or their are just certain players they're particularly interested in hearing their opinions. They've also put in a lot of effort in engagement this game.
I do think how Catboi recently commented on Baltar points to there being +funny points to VP baltar being scum because I tend to think that Town Peta tends to dead center scum in their reads. But that's for a wry universe in a narrative sense more than an actual take on my part, though maybe there is something to that. If you're waiting me to come to a conclusion or to some kind of point, you're going to be here a while.

I kind of want CSF/Andante/Catboi/Me for my bomb team

An aside:
Pooky Posse, Pooky personality cult, Pookybomb squad.
sigh. I shouldn't realy see anything into that, but it always triggers me a little when I see him do that, jut due to how many times they've done it as scum, even though I think they do it as town(?) too.

Huh? I'm not following what you're meaning here?

Pattern recognition. Pooky tends to do like these membership lists in games. Pooky has also been scum in a higher number of games than rand with me. It’s a bad correlation. Ignore it.

read like characterizations first and sorting people second.

What does this mean though? At first I thought maybe I knew what you're saying, like I am giving personality traits or something...but I don't think I'm doing that and I'm not really sure what you actually mean

No, you got it right you can disagree but I think the first half town part is more about characteristics than solve.

I still dunno where the fire resistance is from, we’re 47 pages in. Time to kill somebody.

I would like to see you sell me on fire and not just luke. It feels kind of bad faith for us to lim him solely on some luke reactions you didn't like.

Fire's interactions this game don't look that scummy to me, so I'm having a hard time getting the tunnel on him. (Yes, I know you said this is a luke thing, I'm just saying!)

…why are you bringing up fairness in an unfair world. It’s not something I’m going to engage you about. I don’t apply what is just or fair to games of mafia regarding player alignment. If a player miseliminated a bunch of players I do not think “it’s only fair they die now.” And thinking they must be scum for pushing town wagons a lot.

I do not think how Baltar is posting right now is scummy btw. But I am very weak to aTe. I also know saying that is not going to be helpful.

I do think that if baltar is town here this is a case of people seeing a player be different and failing to adequately solve for the player when they give you a true explanation for their behavior.

If they’re scum, lol myb for not being very helpful. I’m not terribly against it next game day tho.

Sure, that’s a plausible explanation.

That’s sure yes. But you’re calling me lazy and that makes me sad. Even though it’s true.

Based off of recent experience with MT, I’m simply of a mixed opinion. Some town pings, some scum pings.
Tone is right on. But not as persistent as I’d expect.
The number of votes on them though is weird. Though I get the vp-Luke thing is splitting the wagon. Second highest still weird.

Koba is what I call a cutt throat. They are motivated to win and enjoy winning.
But they came in here as an alt so I don’t know what they were going for in this game, I also never learned if they stress more as scum or if they left this game specifically because of their alignment plist or something else.

If it had been Koba, No alt. I would’ve been scum reading them this game.

Titus for the love of god. What are you doing this game?

This is a good town imo. It feels sort of like there are a bunch of sharks in here.
No idea if we're gunna get owned tho. There's always a risk of scum getting out of the tank.

I know my own alignment and I'm confident that I can convince anybody that I'm town. There's no reason to sort myself.

I actually don't think you're posting like scum though.

I'm not sure if you're posting like town either, but I do think it's a little weird yeah. I think how you're talking to me is odd because it starts with some general premise about how you think mafia works and then you apply it poorly to my posts in addition to straw manning me. Like a normal person, I poke people until they start making sense. Or they don't. Or I forget.

I haven't a clue why you think I think I don't care about your results or whatever. You just seem to be thinking that I'm thinking from a less charitable position than I actually am and speaking to me from that point of view.
I don't get it. But I don't want you to explain it either, because I'm not sure it would help me read you anyway, tbh. I'm mostly interested in you going to bed and getting some rest and catching up like you did in your catch up in your time in a way conducive to your happiness, satisfaction and personal health.

If nothing else this exchange made me think Frogster is town.
I'm not sure they'd be willing to embarrass themselves like this as scum and I can't imagine them bussing a buddy like this either.
So that just leaves Frog town.

So that's cool.

Pedit: I know this is anti-town of me, but I'm not required to do this. They're just baiting you and you need to ignore it and go to sleep.

I'm not even sure it makes sense for you not to realize he's baiting you I'm pretty sure you've played more games of mafia than I have.
So I'm confused again.

Ignore me too, this is also bait in a fashion.

The frogster needs to stop trying to hero solve talking point is, not a good talking point.

@cephrir: than do something that resembles scum hunting. I’m not going to heal you if you don’t.

bell who do you think is scummy besides me

and what makes my list strange?

Cephrir, dwlee, Mala.


It’s haphazard and the placement of two PoE lists is confusing for no discernible reason.

I'm more interested in you addressing why you did a huge catch up post this game when you've replaced into other games and didn't do that or chose to go about it differently.

I didn’t replace into this game. And I have not done anything I haven’t done as Town in other games. Check again.

You're right.

[Bell]

Give me a bit to put the text in Mother’s Day and going to grandma’s soon so I’ll put words to quotes after. For now quotes.

[Bell]

Yes. But I figure the more people that say it the harder it will be to ignore. I personally don’t think Pooky is going to make it out this day phase, but if they do, I wanna make it clear they should die. I’ve said it before and I still mean it. I didn’t intend it, but I hope the Gl spare shook people’s read of you and enchant enough to kill pooky this DP.

Also, I just mistapped on phone and lost my second quote wall. Rip. It’s the weekend now so I’ll have time to spare to town case myself but apologies for the delay anyway.

[Bell]

Oh. I don’t self-vote. Rather, I rarely do and really only for mechanics or as a self-aware joke.
It’s pretty anti-win con to self vote imo.

[Bell]

For the record this is wrong both theoretically (confirmation bias) and empirically (it’s very rare for anyone to have perfect reads, so what’s more likely to happen is that you end up limming a few scum and then a bunch of town that person with overall good reads thought seemed scummy).

Nobody in this game bar maybe pooky has reads that are accurate enough to let follow-the-leader be maybe game winning.

For sure. I'm not saying you follow anyone to end game. Just saying, we hit scum yesterday,

why are we ego fighting over the play today

? We have good reason to lim in the expert pool and dwlee/me have had some correct reads this game. You let the dice roll on that.

This feels like the opposite of what you said, but uh, this conversation about an opinion a cowboy avatar has is very much a derail of more fun topics like who the scum are and why they're scum.

Is anybody townreading dwlee on play btw?

Not by play. But they’ve dug themselves out of a hole based on their approach this day phase to SM and Baltar. They were pretty deep into scum read territory at the beginning of this day phase for me and now they’re neutral to Lean town.

Disagree with dwlee’s take they did not get much town cred for that if a bus.
@andante: yeah, I get what you mean but it was done well. It seemed realistic with little bursts of motivation and thoughts here and there.

I felt all three of Pooky/Ceph/Titus were townie in the hood and I think if scum in any of them were trying to get rid of me they could have just openly scumread me and blown me up without much consequence

I think Baltar is scummier than Dwlee

Okay

Waiting on VP.

Vp’s response to this is silly, for the simple reason that given the amount of time they had, the whole thing should click for them that dwlee is scum unless their scumdar is entirely broken. Dwlee has enough posts to click.
I am weirded out that delete softened their response too.

I guess auto correct is calling sales sales dwlee99 wow it won’t even ducking autocorrect the same way twice.
Have at you autocorrect. You’re the real enemy.

Sure. But statistically. You’re probably wrong and torpedoing the chance of getting a scum lim this day phase with a scum team that has been blatantly trying to get you miseliminated for day phases.but okay. Work it out. Maybe you’ll convince me.

*insert Mandatory Pooky paranoia*
Straight up position reversal sucks. And even if I’m wrong and they’d suspected vp all along I still say the same.

Mistyx would you like to comment on being the shoe in for an elimination once dwlee or Baltar flips scum?

I don’t think anyone made a mistake with the bomb and I think the scum team blew up the doc and this argument is terrible and remains terrible.

Look dwlee. It’s depressing, but somehow I can’t figure out which of you it is.
It’s incredibly poor play on my part because I’m usually pretty good with 50/50’s or rather. I’m 100% on them. But something isn’t clicking and I can see either of you being scum and it sucks bur it’s also true so deal.

I’m thinking.

Two things that bother me.
1. Pooky’s 180 positioning on baltar.
2. Baltar not really factoring I’m scum team’s plan until I pointed out that their perspective is messed up. There isn’t much like ego or a story in their mind.

There are more things that bother me. But I’m going to sleep.

I was also hoping baltar would drown the thread in words, something they seem perfectly capable of doing, but haven’t really. So that’s…probably irrelevant and has to do with their availability nevermind.

Pooky said the scum team was trying to kill VP Baltar by adding him to the defusals repeatedly.
Now he’s just speaking the scum party line that he argued first.

It’s sad I have to say this, but that was not me being informed that this was in fact the case and I am not in fact scum.

Andante.
I love you, but please do not try to clear dwlee if BP baltar flips scum or town

Oh this is a lot better from GL.
I guess I was wrong. But this is what I meant. More Aggro with conclusions.

Did you seriously fucking hint what your role was to someone you thought was scum when you could have let them try to blow you up instead or something

Like bro if you're town why would you not just trade for scum there ahhhh

Got town another defusal didn't I?

Nothing is stopping us from. Limming mistyx scum right now

This is not a good argument when the scum literally control who gets picked.

Their in thread/PT behavior was consistent with their claim though.

I think this is because you either prepared your fake claim way in advance or you’re just what you say you are.
I just don’t know what to say baltar, your reasoning and justifications are difficult to swallow. But i still want to vote dwlee. Just based off of emotions.

No Andante. I’m not being sarcastic. Pooky flipped my “pooky is scum switch”
Like, 20 pages ago but it feels irrelevant when we have dwlee and baltar to choose from rn.

It was at the least consistent with a town perspective.

Are you serious.
Baltar the reason nobody wants to go after mistx right now is because you or dwlee is scum.

It’s probabilistic neglect to kill outside of those two.

I don’t think Titus was a weird pick since from a certain lense they were obvious town. I just couldn’t let them pass until I was confident and I didn’t have time to be confident.
I ended up picking three town reads though. From baltar review, still in progress.

Anyone else have Baltar associative insights?

I'd agree with the "not having time" excuse seeming odd.. I saw no situation in which we should've kept Titus alive.. like what, keep her here just to yeet her today?? it's very odd for scum to just give us Titus like that, means the poe that's mostly agreed upon is likely wrong.. but I'm down with yeeting Mistyx today, also,

Titus was very confident on Mistyx maf

VOTE: Mistyx

this is so incredibly far from true

titus wanted me dead for VCA that was all

No, Titus very much wanted you dead in neighborhood chat.
You were her top priority.

Ngl. I’m with ceph and Andante on this due to pure momentum.

Momentum is not a good thing in and of itself

I wasn’t saying it was.
If anything it’s just me being intellectually lazy and not wanting to have to deal with this madness and just defaulting to previous patterns. Because I can’t cope.

We hammering misty?
Has misty claimed yet?
When is it a good time to mass claim?

Before killing Misty I want a claim out of them.
I get real upset when people get blind eliminated.

VOTE: Misty

100% killing mena today. I can justify some of the moves he made, but all of them points a huge arrow directly at him.

Yay. I read cephrir as town and they were town. Isn’t that nice.

I have nothing to say other than it would be lovely if in future you (collective) could address the multiple points on why I don't make sense as scum before limming me, instead of looking at them after the fact and going "oh yeah, he had a point actually"

You defended baltar. You defended misty and appeared to be arguing at a more urgent tone than someone coming off a scum elim would be by pushing other eliminations. It’s just a burden of proficiency. One mistake is fine. Two major ones with obvious intentionality to both I just think, probably scum. It depends on the player.
But you are one where I think it’s valid.
I suppose the fact you didn’t concede points heavily away from you being scum. But I am not negotiating with the past. I wanna be clear you can’t really change my mind here. Just give us who are scum if you have an idea.

I have zero issues with your lim pool.

Pooky just didn’t give much reason. I associate a lack of reasons until mid-late game with their scum game.

Their bussing points away from it though. But I consider them fluffy busses. With pillows for wheels.

I mean, it’s probably just mena and I’m confident that Pooky will defend themselves well regardless of their alignment.
We can discuss it if it matters then and we’re both alive.

Baltar had a tremendous number of associatives and everything up to that point, showed he was a fighter with high activity.
It was not good for the scum team that he didn’t manage 2-miselims to his one.

Sure. @the concede thing. I feel you might be saltier too.

Further arguing with a dead cat: Misty had an ability that secures 3 eliminations and had by far the most powerful role in the scum team, I hope.

No, I don’t, because you’ve been consistent with the pooky push and mind meld.
Though I feel like I’m a hungry for affirmation sort of guy and it’s pathetic tbh. Of me, I mean. I think it’s a weakness.

I discovered that I thought babysitters were just bodyguards, but in actuality they work like a doc except if the baby sitter is killed the baby is killed as well.

also mena is legit the towniest person here, so I'm not voting mena

K.
I’m going to though and then I’m probably following Mena’s elimination list to the letter if they flip town.
I except for my elim, because, tbh. I can obv town and I already did tbh.
Some of my interactions with baltar clear me. In addition to some of my defenses of players. But eh. Cross that bridge when we get to it as already said.

VOTE: Pookythemagicalbear

He’s not going to live to end game. No matter how much effort he puts in.

Want to be clear there.

We can kill Mena later if pooky flips town.
But I want pooky out.

Please don’t apologize for having thoughts/fake thoughts mena. Nasty bear is trying to scare people away. But it’s all bullshit. Pooky is a nice bear. He’s just possessed by a mafia ghost.

All right settle down everyone.
Emotions got hot and so on.
But this advantages scum. So if we could keep things non-toxic and cordial, My win con would appreciate it.

Would it really count if we blew up GL though, because he’s in the pool.
Getting 3 out of 4 of your suspects is a dream come true for this stage of the game.

Sorry, need to reword. I want a guarantee. That pooky eventually gets eliminated this game. It can be now or end game. But at some point people need to vote him until he is eliminated. Got it?

Oh. Yeah that’s a meltdown all right and he was town there? He was more conducive at the beginning of the game.

Yea and Strange is scum

Excellent point. Let me know who you want me to vote and when!

VOTE: Mena

Sure!

Also, just keep listening to everybody else on my alignment, because they're right.

VOTE: Pookythemagicalbear

It’s not Dwlee. Posts are too natural.
It’s not CSF. There are too many posts.

Sanity checked’d.

[Bell]

*DEEP INHALATION*
Get ready for wifom and a bunch of words, baby.

1. I'm not scum because Pooky and Catboi are right in that I'm not confident as scum and the last two times I was scum I didn't tunnel anyone and I was a lot more passive. Not from a solve perspective or an input perspective, but from an aggression perspective. Also, I made multiple posts in this game this game that are basically, "I'm town and I know it and I'm confident I can show it" and for the most part people have correctly read me this game.
2. I'm not scum because I don't interact with Baltar the way I interacted with them. I don't get out in front of VP baltar and say, hey, the giant read wall effort post you just made, before anyone else reacts, I'm going to say it's suspiciously like something I would write as scum!.
I don't get confused when they try to to get out of their 1v1 with with Dwlee, I think my trejectory on Dwlee is also subtle in that they slowly won me over and I gave Baltar a harder and harder time for not having the perspective I would expect them to have if they were town.
I created a point of view in my head of how I think town would act and then applied it to Baltar and found it weird as heck.
3. In my dance game that ended, my interactions with Cephrir and Mala are very in line with my approach to both of them here. I also don't get fixated on "Nobody gets cred for Mala" train of thought. Also, Baltar would be the scum partner that I've interacted the most with in my last 3 scum games combined with all of my scum partners.
4. I don't put pieces together from old thoughts and things I was stuck on from earlier in the game as scum, without having some sort of point to it. A lot of it was inane and not relevant to any win con, but was just me puzzle unraveling.
5. I can't imagine a world where I say Mena dies today, scum case them and then 180 onto Pooky. A thing to note is that I'm lazy and obsessed with consistency when I'm scum. Here, I've directly contradicted myself multiple times and, given the results point directly towards me not playing toward a scum win con.
6. I certainly don't, if the scum team was informed that there were no investigatives in the game. Openly question why nobody has investigated Baltar to call a possible scum bluff, also note that my play in regards to this and how I approached Baltar when their view wasn't aligning with my understanding of them if they were town isn't something I would do because it's complicated, it's not clear to others what I'm trying to get at and seems focused primarily on trying to understand where Baltar is coming from and not as threatre for an audience.
7. I night kill every chance I get, every time it's available and would argue for this early and a lot.
8. I probably would have been more focused on who to heal rather than having it as an afterthought, lol.
9. I've given some players a significantly hard time and instead of holding them to it or trying to push their eliminations through on a particular argument, I backed off, especially if someone had a point. But I didn't always do this, and when I did back off, it was more often on town than on scum. Note my GL trajectory
10. I don't just go with the flow on Misty and completely ignore the Mena/CSF thing. That's was an opportunity to at least, pretend to be town and think about it openly, even if I just go back and push Misty again as scum, I don't do without politely acknowledging the two people arguing back and forth about it.
11. My back and forth with Mena would be odd for scum me to do.
12. Don't think I town bin Catboi out of left field for a self-conscious comment they made.
There's other stuff. I could keep writing and I expect a lot of this to be dismantled or ignored by Pooky/reasonable people who point out that this is a whole load of wifom.
If you meta me I can be remarkably consistent if you pay attention, but I wouldn't make these kinds of arguments if I were scum because I would probably start with the most AI stuff I can think of, not the approaches I would actually take. I don't expect people to meta me, but if they did I would expect some contradictions, but I'm not too worried because there simply shouldn't be major, foundational contradictions because I'm town after all.
13. Really don't think I try to save GL here. I was also, relatively outside of the pocket of possible elims anyway and directly undermined that by asking Andante and Enchant to do something townie in presentation. Pooky has tried to dismantle the very idea what they did was townie. But goodness knows I don't pay attention to *any* of the mechanics he's talking about. As town I'm focused on one day at a time and as scum I'm focused on surviving but don't put much time out for mechanical thinking.

AMA: About my play this game, a particular action or choice I made.
Except Pooky. No AMA's for that one.

[Bell]

Oh wow, this case is shitter than usual. I should probably have just waited and put the quotes with the comments.

Oh well! Deal.

[Bell]

As for the "saving kills thing"
Outright, wouldn't have noticed.
Probably would have argued too that the game state was more important then the mechanical thing, but eh. I lack confidence and could easily have bent my spine to allow it, but immediately start killing when all my partners were dead....
and I certainly wouldn't have shot cephrir, lol.

[Bell]

I skimmed icebox's ISO from that Shakespeare game and it doesn't sound very similar here. He's wittier as town.

Ouch. But the stress doesn't make for good jokes yeah. But that's very left field of you.

[Bell]

and subjective as hell, lol.

[Bell]

Ah, the reason I wouldn't have shot Cephrir, is because I have a general idea of when they're coming for someone based on my understanding of them. They tend to undermine a player before going after them in earnest. Rather it starts with undermining before escalating to a scum read. Though, sometimes Ceph does this to their own partner, so. But anyway! No warning signs that Cephrir wanted me dead this game. So no reason to shoot them.
But he's dead and I would have the hypothetical perspective of scum here and them of town, so from that perspective.

[Bell]

Do you have some games where your reads weren't good as town

Most of them?

WH13, I was tunneled On MB forever.
BloodStained I was tunneled on Spiffeh town forever. and was convinced Notscience was town.
Tenet: I was tunneled on Shelly, until they died and then my reads were decent and had something close to game winning reads, but too little too late.
Dance game: I was tunneled on Dunnstral but then they went insane and I changed my mind. Before going after Andante, before Mylo wrote a big ass meta case against them in thread. I only had good reads by the end and I was mostly trying to demoralize Datisi because I dive their notes PT and know they have imposter syndrome.

[Bell]

There was an anon game I sort of forgot with shapes. I was tunneled on the Cabd slot befoe he repped into their slot and solved the entire game for us while calling me stupid.

[Bell]

You should be concerned given my absolutely unwholesome lukewarm/firebringer tunnel this game.

[Bell]

That was so bad. I'm going to be embarrassed about it forever.

[Bell]

Here's the thing.

I can accept being eliminated today on the condition that you give me the full 7 days to figure out who to eliminate tomm and deadsheep me on it no questions asked tomorrow.

But I can't do this if everyone is going to be like "oh yea pooky is going to flip scum so idgaf and I'm not going to post or try"

or I guess if you all just want to lim me and not really care about what I have to say then yea I can accept that and que sera sera.

I won't be happy about it but I understand that maybe you really do need me to flip before you can start caring about this game.

sure.

[Bell]

Actually, I wanted to be the bomb guy, but the scum never made me the bomb guy.

[Bell]

Also, that sounds dangerously close to a plan from a mechanical perspective/strategy and a confidence in my own play that my scum team wouldn't bother constructing for me, which means I would have not only thought about it myself, but then made a decision to commit to it and get the result I wanted.
Which. Um.

[Bell]

There is an overwhelming consensus on a large number of slots being town. So either scum is just... letting that happen correctly, or there is a deep wolf.

This post I think demonstrates I'm not scum ftr, pooky just made me think of it

I doubt you're scum unless you're good at making fake 1v1's anyway. Note that my perspective and the reasoning as to why I was sotening on you as compared to Baltar was because you were making sense, you're town, you knew it and it was easy enough to realize Baltar was scum. Baltar wasn't town, knew it and couldn't articulate why you were scum when you were literally the only person it could be from a sane perspective that wasn't sheer survivalism.

The best paranoia answer I can give is that Baltar was trying to find a way out not because they realized a 2v1 exchange was at best breaking even, but that it would point away from you because of the unholy amount of wifom involved in choosing not to go for the sensible thing, clearing Dwlee forever intentionally.

But then I remembered that they literally blew up a doctor an that's too paranoid even for me.

[Bell]

i am fairly sure koba constructed this plan

i would bet on it

I completely forgot about them, lol. I'm not sure how hard they would've been trying in thread given they repped out without the effort being visible in thread. It's basically saying they tried in the scum PT, but not in the game before flaking. Which doesn't sound right to me.

[Bell]

I would like to retract my word that I'll wait 5 days to lim Pooky.
Please eliminate them when you're ready.
I was ready yesterday.
But I won't wait 5 days. I'm fine letting the rest of the town solve until they're satisfied.
But 5 days is too much for me when I've already considered this to the best of my ability.
An appeal to fairness isn't something I'm interested in. But I don't really think Pooky was asking me anyway.

[Bell]

Do you think Enchant or Andante or really going to do that though.

I've been purposefully limiting my engagement with Pooky.

[Bell]

I really doubt Pooky is town. But you do you. I probably won't try further though until I have a reason to reconsider. Pooky's statements so far have made my scum read deeper red. Pooky thrives on engagement.

[Bell]

Bell why do you even scumread me?

You're scum reading me. You're not bad enough to misread me. Ergo, you're scum.

[Bell]

Too late to change your mind, no take backs.

[Bell]

I mean I care more about Enchant actually doing things than Andante.

Why have you been limiting engagement? I'm convinced it's in a group of 3 so if one of you town tells enough it's a dub

I doubt Enchant is going to do much even if you wait forever.
Because of Pokemon' the last time I 1v1'd Pooky I lost. I need to step up my game and change my approach so I've tried my best to kill him by trying to save GL so we have more space to mess up.

[Bell]

What was your original reason for scumreading me

Overwhelming negativity.

[Bell]

Then CSF posted a thing, I acknowledged it and backed up a bit. Since you were super duper negative in that game.
Also, I'm perfectly happy to sheep Mena. My pet hypothesis is that the reason Misty slipped by their awareness/focus was simply because he found scum you instead.

[Bell]

Sure, but given Pokemon, you couldn't have been much more negative without eating a ban. The floor for scum and town you is the same.

[Bell]

Then CSF posted a thing, I acknowledged it and backed up a bit. Since you were super duper negative in that game.
Also, I'm perfectly happy to sheep Mena. My pet hypothesis is that the reason Misty slipped by their awareness/focus was simply because he found scum you instead.

Mena's literally been wrong about every read he's made this game so why would you be happy to sheep him?

You said the same thing about Koba and the same thing about me.
and you're not a new player, you know this isn't scummy. You know it's not a reason to scum read someone. It's just you being a sophist. Which is a type of scum.

[Bell]

Sure, but given Pokemon, you couldn't have been much more negative without eating a ban. The floor for scum and town you is the same.

I was negative in pokemon because you called me a trumpist gaslighter

It's been too long since I played that game to remember when the negativity started but I'm pretty sure it started with Koba/wen people started pushing you and we both escalated from there. In general, people tend to remember things as they'd like to remember it rather than how things were. People includes me.

[Bell]

Well, I'm not betting the game on his read.
I'm betting the game on my read. Obviously and recently I've ignored players that cased people I thought were town. There are a lot of players I think are town this game, you're the least townie of them. It's never just one reason.

[Bell]

Obviously, GL being town and Andante and Enchant letting them live with Dwlee's interactions being anti-associative and CSF probably having a deep polarity between their alignments points directly to you being scum.
Cause I'm not.

[Bell]

I don't want to religitate it either.

[Bell]

Well, I'm not betting the game on his read.
I'm betting the game on my read. Obviously and recently I've ignored players that cased people I thought were town. There are a lot of players I think are town this game, you're the least townie of them. It's never just one reason.

ok so explain your scum-read of me?

You're scum by POE.

[Bell]

That's my playstyle anyway, though I'm not sure how many people realize that. I think you're one of them, but don't quote me on that.

[Bell]

That argument is so vapid that I don't even want to respond to it, since it can't be serious.

[Bell]

But for the audience.
I usually try to pick up 2-3 strong town reads per day phase and replace the one's I've lost.
I've been remarkably consistent with that throughout this game and was really worried when Catboi, Andre died because I needed new town reads because my strongest ones kept dying.
Baltar helped a lot with his associative and I think that, for the most part he messed up there.

[Bell]

I mean, the reason you need to discredit me here is because my read doesn't go away when I die.
You need to undermine it. In the same way you needed to undermine that a GL save meant anything.

[Bell]

It's a clear trajectory. I didn't even really fully realize that Andante and Enchant sparing GL would result in people's SR's weakening there, but instead of panicking about how I'm going to survive in the PoE, I'm just saying it's you.

[Bell]

I'm not talking to you more about this.
Kill Pooky, now or in elo. Or don't, that's fine too.

[Bell]

It's a clear trajectory. I didn't even really fully realize that Andante and Enchant sparing GL would result in people's SR's weakening there, but instead of panicking about how I'm going to survive in the PoE, I'm just saying it's you.

Scum win by going one at a time instead of worrying where they are in the PoE.

If you try to maneuver for positioning you look informed that the elimination you are pushing does not end the game.

Surviving to the next day is the name of the game.

I agree which is why most of your posts are during this day phase.

[Bell]

Scooby dooby doo, where are you? We need some help from you now.

[Bell]

Come on Scooby Doo, I see you,
Pretending you got a sliver.

[Bell]

You know we got a mystery to solve so Scooby Doo be ready for your act

[Bell]

2 of the players went v/la and it's mother's day today. I don't really have much else to say. You know what I want.

Happy mother's day by the way.

[Bell]

I reevaluated on Mena, Andre, GL, Dwlee, VP Baltar.
I’ve reversed myself more this game than average for me.

[Bell]

I’ve tried the engage route before with Pooky scum and it didn’t work out for me.
Autopilot time.

[Bell]

I would rather miselim Pooky now than end game.

[Bell]

The case against me is scummy because it’s largely focused on not only making sure I die, but making sure that my read of them dies with me. Name of the game being surviving one day at a time. *points at pooky’s post rate and guilt tripping to try to get people to change their minds on him like it matters or that we don’t have space for fuck ups* reminder that multiple people announced V/LA into Mother’s Day and he’s playing on your empathy and sense of fairness. Note that I am a ridiculously easy read. Pooky misreading me instead of the other way around is significantly less likely. Though, I know he gets pissed when I say that. But it’s true.

[Bell]

Pooky can miselim enchant whenever. I’m the hurdle here. I’m not changing my
Mind so I have to go now and then he can act confused later.

[Bell]

I guess he could’ve shot me. But I have no idea what the scum team is doing there.as said before, I’d have been shooting every chance I had.

[Bell]

What even were cephrir’s reads this game.

[Bell]

I have to go to work and I would really appreciate Pooky dying soon. I think you’ve heard him out. You can dead sheep him.

[Bell]

I’ve been playing this game forever and I’ve always tried and my accuracy hasn’t improved a wink, lol.

[Bell]

P. Much, don't think CSF can be scum here.

[Bell]

I had a dream.
But I forgot what happened in it.

[Bell]

Pretty much agree.

[Bell]

*taps foot*

[Bell]

Then we kill Andante for playing on our fears.
Fear is the mind killer.

[Bell]

Woosh.

[Bell]

Oh, I have doubts. It’s just I’m old school and know that demonstrating them when I really want an elimination is a terrible idea.
Cheeky possible. I’ll just reeval and start going again. But I did my work. I just didn’t quote wall.

[Bell]

I have reasoning for every player. I don’t see a reason to constantly churn what I already see.
I do anyway, but posting it while trying to lim pooky is an exercise in futility.

[Bell]

I’ll go everyone’s posts again if Pooky flips town and I’m happy to engage with these checks then.

[Bell]

I’ll listen if you’re town Pooky. Sorry for misreading you if I did.I don’t really think I’ve been lazy this game tho. I just tuned out after reaching my solve and took actions that reflect that solve. It’s not comparable to death curse because I just stopped solving when there were a bunch of question marks left because we needed a whole lot of misses to lose.
And still almost lost!

[Bell]

anyway yeah tomorrow I wanna reread

N2 hood w/ Bell
N4 hood w/ Pooky
VPB going down D5 - I remember a loooottt of potential anti-associative with Dwlee here and I wanna make sure it doesn't ping me on reread as too orchestrated just as a sanity check

but yeah, ultimately still leaning Pooky I think

Still haven’t heard of a good reason why Pooky was shot at N1. Pooky changed his mind on VPB and he turned around and shot him? This doesn’t align with Pooky’s thoughts that VP had a plan to fool him and succeeded.
I remember pointing out it was odd that Pooky seemed to be chasing the bullet clear post bullet.

[Bell]

…I swear I didn’t mean to page top.

[Bell]

1. Circular logic.
2. You said previously it was his plan to fool you are you also saying his plan was to shoot you after fooling you.
3. I’m skeptical your reads would have influenced me much if at all, perhaps others would have been interested in your dead reads. But for the most part. What would have drawn my attention to your reads would have been the fact you died unusually early when it’s rare for you to get nked’d day 1. At least in my experience.
4. Read 3.

[Bell]

*shakes head* even if you made a really good argument about this topic, it wouldn’t be enough Pooky. Too many assumptions of intent and it’s too random. Baltar’s play was decent but flawed. Your interpretation of their play is too all over the place in terms of competence.

[Bell]

Has andante even played with scum me.
Why do they know my scum range?

[Bell]

Doo bop.

[Bell]

Plz. The suspense is actually killing me.

[Bell]

Happy birthday Datisi.

*grumbles about overtime*

[Bell]

Folks

[Bell]

I would like to know if I was wrong at your earliest convenience.

[Bell]

I think they were trying to hedge their bets by waiting to see if Misty Lim would go through. “Clearing them”

[Bell]

It made sense to them, but resulted in a lot of question marks from me, demonstrating I wasn’t informed while Baltar was.

[Bell]

This is what I mean by baltar’s play being good but flawed.
Trip ups like that. But I really liked baltar’s play this game. Sure he dumped a metric ton of associative a and made plenty of mistakes but at least he posted and said things and was manipulative in their own unique way. Dunno how proactive they were tho.

[Bell]

Dwlee bein silly. Even by my standards this page.

[Bell]

Ohhh, that’s another good reason I’m town.
And the questions from Dwlee are so dense with “I don’t knows” that even the vistages of my paranoia died off a lot

[Bell]

Nah? I hope.

[Bell]

Fair enough.

[Bell]

Could you vote yourself though. Because like. Nobody else will.
19 hours left.

[Bell]

Solving is the best part tho. Embrace the challenge!
We’ll probably game ends here imo

[Bell]

Well, I probably shouldn’t be that confident. The Baltar nudge was odd initially in a townie way, there’s an argument for town pooky, just not as convincing as the rest of the arguments.

[Bell]

literally been here all day willing to talk with any1 no engagement now getting limmed by apathy and a deadline like lol ok fam sure.

Been trying to murder you the last two game days. You have my rapt attention.

[Bell]

Spoiler: gif

VOTE: pooky

Thank you, you're my hero.

[Bell]

*shrug*
I’m not scum.

[Bell]

I've read that poem, thanks for sharing.

[Bell]

Can someone hammer Pooky now?

[Bell]

okay CSF.

*pokes*

[Bell]

Do me the honors. Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Bell]

Ye.

[Bell]

gg Pooky

[Bell]

No redactions, sorry for losing my cool sometimes everyone.

gg.

[Bell]

lmao.

[Bell]

That dead thread was more fun than the actual game wtf.

[Bell]

And that isn't being harsh on the game. I had genuine fun this game. Thanks for Modding datisi.
I know you asked for feedback but the only objection I have is Misty's role.
It would have been a hard troll if not for frogster.

And of course, I would like to apologize to Lukewarm and Fireisred who I completely fucked up on.
And also SM, but I promise one day I will figure out how to read you.
Or not.
Probably not. But eventually it will work in your favor!

[Bell]

I legitimately can't tell if this game was town or scum sided. it was swingy I think.
I basically agree that blowing up Andres was a misplay unless scum had a good plan going in to bus Misty.
But I really am grateful that everyone tried this game and that's what made it fun.

Thank you everyone. *gratitude*

Also yes, the flavor with Mena was gold.

[Bell]

Subject: KTaNE [dead/spec pt]

Aight my placeholder spitball is Andante, Enchant, Dwlee, and Andres

Page top

[Bell]

Oh no,
how did that get there?

[Bell]

I admire Skitter’s willingness to not only bet against the odds, but also against a player that has known and played mafia with them for years and initiated the bet.

[Bell]

I dunno why you’re mad at that, when I blew you up too and most players after the fact agreed that it was the safer choice. and they (politely) disagreed when we spared GL.

No skitter! No, never change you beautiful animal! Keep dancing!

[Bell]

I will want his gundam figurines when he dies.

[Bell]

I feel like I was the only one that said that!
Also wp mena.

[Bell]

Heck yeah I snicker as I write in my notes. I also grin and chuckle