Open 96 -- Carbon-14 (Game over) before 703

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: Crazy

for joining MafiaScum the same day I did.

[StrangerCoug]

FoS: Natirasha

for self-voting.

[StrangerCoug]

Hmm. ortolan's quickly retracted vote is noted, but I don't know what to make of it at this point.

[StrangerCoug]

It's a seven-player game with two scum. They could, in theory, have lynched Natirasha at that point if he's town, but I highly doubt a quicklynch like that will happen the first day let alone the first page.

[StrangerCoug]

I didn't want to run Natirasha up too fast because of it. I am aware of Nat's general anti-town meta, but the last completed game I played with him, he openly admitted being the serial killer.

[StrangerCoug]

No, I was in Face Down and Thirsty.

[StrangerCoug]

Where is everybody, anyway?

[StrangerCoug]

Right now I'm damned if I know. Looks like a mass prod is in order.

Mod: Please prod everybody that hasn't posted here in the last 72 hours.

[StrangerCoug]

Why does a vote have to either be for a completely random reason or a completely real reason?

Because I'm new here and I don't know you.

Don't give us this newbie card crap.

See sig.

I don't know who Stoofer is. I don't care who Stoofer is.

How the hell is Mr Stoofer relevant to what Natirasha is referencing?

Unvote: Crazy
Vote: Kublai Khan

[StrangerCoug]

Don't give us this newbie card crap.

Huh?

When you attacked Crazy for making a semi-random vote, he responded by asking why votes have to be either completely random or completely serious. You answered by saying you're new, which 1.) is scummy and 2.) I see as BS anyway since your account is three months old.

[StrangerCoug]

That's the second time you've "made a case" against someone during this 2-page long game. First you FOSed Natirasha for self-voting, then you vote for me for saying that I'm new. Do you actually have a strategy in doing this, or are you just in a hurry to get the day over with?

I have a strategy, and it involves hunting scum. Random voting has to end sometime, and I say it's perfectly acceptable to make two cases so soon. We know there are two mafia, and even though the chances of me being right about you and Natirasha are very low, that doesn't deprive me the right to go after you both. I think you're jumping to conclusions as to my wanting the game to end as early as you think I do.

I remember somebody defending Natirasha as someone who always self-votes in the random voting stage, but I'm not 100% sure who exactly it was and I'm too lazy to go back and check.

[StrangerCoug]

b. Some of the wording creeps me out here, and is pretty scummy. "even though the chances of me being right about you two being scum is low, that doesn't deprive me of the right to arrange mislynches" That's what it sounds like to me, and you seem more concerned about getting a free pass for voting on nothing than you seem concerned about lynching scum, correctly.

It is rare to get a scum pair right on Day 1 let alone page 2. The chances of that in this particular game is one in 30 (it's normally one in 110 in a mini). It's called math. It's also called experience.

Yet another scummy thing you've done is ignore my earlier FoS vote instead of addressing it. Do you want to let that dry up and go away so you don't have to possibly say something scummy in defending yourself?

I did not ignore it; I just had nothing to say about it. It's already been explained.

If it helps explain why I FoS'd Natirasha, I got a lot of rap for self-voting in another game when I did it and I honestly don't give much of a damn about meta.

[StrangerCoug]

I have a strategy, and it involves hunting scum.

Random voting has to end sometime, and I say it's perfectly acceptable to make two cases so soon. We know there are two mafia, and even though the chances of me being right about you and Natirasha are very low, that doesn't deprive me the right to go after you both. I think you're jumping to conclusions as to my wanting the game to end as early as you think I do.

I remember somebody defending Natirasha as someone who always self-votes in the random voting stage,

but I'm not 100% sure who exactly it was and I'm too lazy to go back and check.

I know that different people has different playing styles and all.. But what the hell kind of strategy is that? You've pounced on the tiniest of scraps of "evidence" and you're refusing to keep track of who says what?

You're not letting people make mistakes. It's too aggressive. It just reeks of... trying too hard.

You asked me whether I had a strategy or was simply in a hurry; as you can see, I answered.

Being too lazy to do something and refusing to do something are not the same thing. Being too lazy to do something means something like "Yeah, I know I should do it, but I can't bother myself with it. Whatever." Refusing to do something means "I'd rather die than do it", and I'd rather

NOT

die than go back and look for who brought up Natirasha's meta.

I am generally very aggressive and have played that way as town and scum. You're accusing me of "trying too hard" reminds me of the Too Townie fallacy, but I can't get at what's bugging me about it other than that and it may be the wrong term.

[StrangerCoug]

The reason I don't give a damn about meta is because too often it's used to try to determine alignment. If you want to use meta to get a gauge how someone plays in general (as in independent of alignment), fine.

[StrangerCoug]

Natirasha, in general, self-votes at the beginning of every game. He does that all the time. Therefore it's not scummy.
StrangerCoug, in general, is aggressive every game. He does that all the time. Therefore it's not scummy.


DO YOU SEE YOUR DOUBLE STANDARD YET?

I was unaware of Natirasha's self-voting meta at the time of the FoS, and because of the fact that...you know...and that my self-voting in another game was a big deal there, I FoS'd him.

I can't really FoS or vote {Xtoxm} yet, i don't know what's going on with him and that seems unfair, since there's a totally legit explanation for his actions. I'm very concerned though.

I'll throw a vote on him then. An "influx of work" could just be a lie to cover his lurking. He's made 3 posts (no meaningful content) in 8 days. If he honestly is so busy with work that he can't play the game, then he should have asked to be replaced. Since he didn't ask to be replaced, it means he has the time to play and he's just choosing to remain out of the spotlight and in the shadows.

vote: Xtoxm

OK, I know what I said, but have you checked Xtoxm's other games to verify that he's lurking? If he's active and contributing in his other current games while posting absolutely nothing of value here, then yes, your vote is legitimate. If this is a problem in multiple games, then I would not question his being so tied up with work if I were you.

To give an extreme example of what could happen, my Internet got cut off in December 2007 and I wasn't able to get it back until early the following March, so I was forced to post from a library in the meantime. It was before I signed up for this site, but shortly after I had started playing Mafia online.

So basically, don't make assumptions.

[StrangerCoug]

Point ceded.

FoS: Xtoxm.

[StrangerCoug]

I'd argue that he's just teasing, but it's clear by now that he really doesn't want to play and could care less about contributing.

Unvote: Kublai Khan
Vote: Xtoxm

[StrangerCoug]

You know, I did a reread of this game over the course of the night, and Kublai Khan is actually not as scummy as I thought. A couple of posts by popsofctown, however, stuck out to me:

I can't really FoS or vote him yet, i don't know what's going on with him and that seems unfair, since there's a totally legit explanation for his actions. I'm very concerned though.

This is a reference to Xtoxm, which we know flipped cop. You express suspicions of him later, but you left your vote on me, which reeks of distancing from a mislynch as you never voted him.

Another one:

Xtoxm and KK both look pretty bad. At this point, by my reckoning, one or both of them is a scum.

It's Day 1 and you're already this certain about scum? This is tunnel vision, and you were voting for neither player when you made that statement. In fact, other than your random vote on ortolan, I'm the only person you've voted all day.

Let's get down to business here, pops: I am the seer, I investigated you for the above posts, and you came up werewolf. Therefore,

Vote: popsofctown

[StrangerCoug]

Do you guys really buy this? His claim itself seems so insincere. "Here is two things that look suspicious. Oh and by the way I investigated you."
He doesn't even give reasons he stopped thinking KK was suspicious, it's as if whatever KK did that was suspicious dried up and blew away.

A reread of what I thought were his suspicious posts seem to be on the explainable side now, which is why I've dropped him.

You quote me as saying "Xtoxm and KK both look pretty bad." I did say that, but it was a typo. I meant to say "Xtoxm and SC both look pretty bad."

OK, I understand that much, but that doesn't explain why you stayed off the Xtoxm lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

Ugh... Having the flu sucks. Sorry, guys.

[StrangerCoug]

Insert profanity here.

Vote: StrangerCoug

[StrangerCoug]

I claimed seer, I got counterclaimed, the counterclaimer is now dead, he turned out to have been telling the truth. Connect the dots, then kill me.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: Add my claiming that a Mafioso was guilty when the seer is supposed to get a guilty on werewolves.

[StrangerCoug]

Thank you. And with that, I congratulate the town with a good job.

[StrangerCoug]

ortolan was killed because popsofctown thought he was scummier than me, and for the gambit to work, I had to be the scummiest player and my claim could not have been believable.

In case you're curious, I actually asked the mod if I could kill myself last night. (I couldn't.)

[StrangerCoug]

Nat is Nat. End of discussion.

[StrangerCoug]

And it's official. I now have a losing record as scum.

And Pops, stop going on at SC, he was confirmed scum when real Seer died.

I was actually confirmed scum when popsofctown flipped Mafia instead of werewolf.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't think there were any major problems with the setup, but I think our Day 2 gambit was pretty interesting (too bad it ended up being epic fail), and I want some thoughts on it. What do you think would have happened if Kublai Khan counterclaimed before popsofctown was hammered and I was lynched in his place?

[StrangerCoug]

This is a pretty bad post to be in the habit of making. As a general rule, never reveal your alignment as scum until after the mod posts an end of day post revealing your alignment.

There is always the chance of a mistake in voting protocol or even mod error that could go in your favor.

So you were in favor of letting scum have a cheap win? OK...

... of course, self voting yourself is usually an even worse thing to do. I think it would've been more sporting if you had at least tried to spin some incredible line of bullshit, even if it only had a prayer of working if the town was full of idiots. I think it is better to go down swinging.

I was screwed since Night 2.

[StrangerCoug]

Reading it you were pretty suspicious day 1. Lack of activity was a bear.

Which is exactly why I was supposed to be the Day 2 lynch for the gambit to work, but no, some rather impatient people dediced to blow us

BOTH

up.

[StrangerCoug]

there is more than one way SC could have gone for a win.

"I'm vanilla townie, but i realized D2 was LyLo and thought that I was almost certainly going to be lynched next, which would make us lose. I thought a seer claim was the only way to keep myself from getting lynched"

May I ask how the hell that's pro-town?

Or, considering the town was clearly so disorganized they couldn't even get their claims out before lynches.

"Well Nat, it's obvious that Crazy's seer claim was BS. Let's lynch.

Vote: Crazy

"

Crazy deduced (wrongly) that I was the seer, so that wouldn't work if he was paying attention. I could have used it, and in hindsight that might have been a good try, but I doubt it. As I implied earlier, it would be cheap for confirmed scum to get away.

You play to win. You don't play to lose.

My fate was sealed when you died, and it's unfair to take advantage of people not paying attention. It's called accepting the consequences for your actions, not throwing the game. Now enough already.

[StrangerCoug]

SC, may I recommend a book? Chess for Tigers is less about chess and more about how to win games. Especially if you are attracted to gambits, I think you might enjoy it and find it useful.

Will do. Anything that improves strategy in general in anything I play will be of good use for me here (because I pretty much suck at strategy at any given game I know the rules to)