Micro 1054 || Fuzzy Friends Coalition || Game Over!

[Aristeia]

or maybe saint flavor leaf

i dunno I get them mixed up a lot when they start ranting :>

[Aristeia]

maybe it really is just Datisi getting derptunneled by NK15

i think dats taking the time to argue against the possibility of that specific team is very minorly unaligning although certainly not something i'd bet the game on

it's such a weird time for roden to bus his partner if datisi is mafia with him?

I can't see a world where datisi flips today - is scum, and scum roden survives to win?

between the two of them they have enough votes to flip you - I don't see the point of taking the risk of bussing here.

i mean if im a replacement coming in with the exact solve the choices are to either bury me and hope people ignore my legacy or bus and then nk me and hope to sweep it under the rug. neither is exactly comfy but they both look like hell in option 1 where option 2 gives maybe a chance to scrape by. just a thought tho, i might have something more concrete after reading mala/nk15

i think they can just vote you off here

enforce bop on mena tomm

and at elo its anyones game cuz nk15 gives 0 shits

[Aristeia]

i am starting to wonder if we were getting bamboozled by a skitter/irrel team because the fact that bloodhail comes in and starts screaming about how i'm scum and skitter continues saying she doesn't know who it is if not bloodhail, but when i get another vote she goes on this tangent where she explains how hey maybe datisi is not that townie hmm hmm hmm

that exchange where irrel tries to twist skitter's arm into voting mena was very non-aligned imo

it's also incredibly bad strategy for her to bus irrel-scumpartner atp because if she flips him, it will look kind of weird when she survives to elo.

[Aristeia]

And like why should i be realizing this isnt your scumgame?
(And why doesnt this logic apply to ari?)

cuz I'm just not very good at reading him tbh ~_~

[Aristeia]

And like why should i be realizing this isnt your scumgame?
(And why doesnt this logic apply to ari?)

cuz I'm just not very good at reading him tbh ~_~

And i have a long history of reading him right?

well according to him you do? >.>

[Aristeia]

I also did not think it was obvious

the only lol-hammerer is already voting for bloodhail

if i (either alignment) thought it was inevitable bloodhail flips today, i don't have to spend time discrediting and arguing with him either way

if i (either alignment) thought there's a chance he actually gets his way (which, uh, i kind of think there is considering the thread atmosphere) then i gotta argue against him

also I don't really get why you are worried about bloodhail getting lolhammered if you like think he's scum trying to misflip you and you're worried he's going to misflip you

[Aristeia]

The deadline is in 0 days, 10 hours, 14 minutes.

it's like less than 12 hours left on the day though

[Aristeia]

I want you to be town but you just don't feel that way rn and im scared :<

[Aristeia]

if you're like actually town I just wish I wasn't so bad at reading you

[Aristeia]

i'm aware, that doesn't negate my point that a hammer happening during a conversation is Not Good

why do you even think i'm scum now? what has changed since you were townreading me recently?

bh feeling a lot townier than irrelephant and insisting that skitter/mena are both "obvtown" and asking me to like sheep his read if/when he flips.

yes if someone is very loud I tend to just listen to them esp if they are asking me to sheep them post death :/

[Aristeia]

like I kind of recognize it's possible that bh!scum decided to amplify my paranoia on your slot and just straight up kamikaze you to get out of the 1v1 with mena that he's likely losing

but he's kind of screaming that you're mafia and you're not being very forceful and it's easy to be influenced by someone who is just loud and seems to not care about being flipped.

[Aristeia]

which point was good?

[Aristeia]

if you are townreading him for it - that literally is the scum benefit.

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Dats

[Aristeia]

i am in traffic i will post when i get home no hammer pls

[Aristeia]

I am not sure enough about Datisi or Bloodhail to vote for either of them rn.

I know I was leaning towards voting for Dats coming into today and I wanted to sleep to think it over one last time and I woke up still feeling incredibly uncomfortable about the prospect of voting him out.

I don't feel any degree of certainty about either vote and I can see both of them as town playing this way.

What really bothers me is Mena's play today.

he has 4 posts and none of them contain anything remotely related to the game and I find it weird because.

If you are 100% sure you are 1v1ing a scum player and you're willing to BoP yourself to flip them - why do you suddenly step off the gas when said scum player is on the verge of being eliminated but is also 1v1ing your top townread in coalition? [remember Mena said Dats was the one he townread the most out of all 4 of us]

the momentum in the thread is clearly moving away from bloodhail being flipped towards maybe Datisi being flipped. I have expressed doubts about Dats, skitter has expressed doubts about Dats, fire has expressed a willingness to vote Dats. Dats is on the verge of getting yeeted out a fucking window.

He sees bloodhail maybe getting away and his top townread maybe getting flipped and he doesn't really care? his only post is about how the hot weather has made his brain jelly? like wtf is that?

The amount he seems to care about flipping the bloodhail/irrelephant slot seems directly related to his own survival - when he's the other option he's in here pounding the table screaming for blood when the other option is his top townread Datisi he's busy enjoying the madrid sun.

I do not care about his meta and how much he's obvtowned before - or whatever. I do not want to lose to you all being blinded by meta.

I am deeply unhappy with how mena's played today and how he suddenly doesn't seem to give a shit about flipping bloodhail.

[Aristeia]

anyway that's off my chest

If you all think Mena is obvtown and untouchable then whatever I will accept him as an IC and blame everyone else if he's scum and be happy taking the free IC if he's town.

I feel more uncomfortable about this game than last night.

[Aristeia]

like maybe he really likes bloodhail's new content

maybe he is re evaluating datisi

where is that thought process? none of it is in the thread

its like he opened things up and decided he doesn't need to influence the thread direction at all

and how does that make sense for Mena!Town to do ??? did he suddenly stop giving a shit which one of datisi/blood hail get flipped today?? is that a town mindset?

[Aristeia]

maybe Mena is just a sane human being enjoying a nice friday night out and I'm just a degenerate psycho who cares too much i dunno.

I am so conflicted.

I will vote wherever i need to to get a flip in around 2 hours and I am happy to talk about anything before then because I don't have a social life.

[Aristeia]

why do you townread datisi?

[Aristeia]

? I'm not scumreading you for presence, I'm scumreading that you seemed to stop caring about flipping bloodhail as soon as the 1v1 moved to a different person.

that's not the same thing

[Aristeia]

what is CFD?

[Aristeia]

I don’t understand how you’re disentangling lack of presence from lack of caring

How am I going to demonstrate either way that I care/don’t care if I’m not here

My posts when I did briefly enter were to acknowledge presence in thread but also I could see that there were a load of new posts and I’ve already explained why I’m struggling to grapple with them

because if you deeply care about flipping irrel/blood hail and you are actually sure that slot is mafia;

it takes roughly 1 minute to log in and say "I want to flip bloodhail/irrel they are scum" [that's caring about the flip without presence]

and I'm assuming you do deeply care about flipping that slot over Datisi's slot since Datisi was your top townread and you were willing to BoP yourself to flip Elephant Guy.

Even popping in to say I'm not sure anymore is still expressing an opinion.

You popped in and basically said nothing

[Aristeia]

Chinese Fire Drill — a quick wagon at the end of a day

I have a hard time believing you actually think I'm scum and doing this shit at EOD when blood hail vs datisi is t-t.

[Aristeia]

like I know you're an omgusser by nature but that's a little too fucking far for me to believe

[Aristeia]

I don’t see how those points aren’t fully addressed by 2245 and 2247

Like if I am unsure, even if I have a preference

I am not necessarily immediately going to start going on about it before I’ve had time to think about it and as i was still trying and failing to process what the arguments were I didn’t comment on it

yea you said that after I called you out for saying nothing

that doesn't make my initial suspicion of you popping in and saying nothing invalid

[Aristeia]

You’re attempting to redirect the wagon back towards me for what I think are very poor reasons and if bloodhail is town then you’ve also been fencesitting and allowing a t/t conflict to play out most of the day

I don’t see why you would be doing differently as scum here when you’re not in any danger and the more slots you can keep viable going into D2/D3 the better for you

3 people have said my reasons are very valid and they can't all be scum with me

[Aristeia]

it's borderline ridiculous for you to think I would defuse a datisi-bloodhail t/t fight 2 hours before d1 deadline by hard shoving you out of nowhere with a bullshit argument I'm not bad at playing scum and you should know this.

[Aristeia]

like if it wasnt for how much respect I hold for skitter/bh/datisi's ability to read you I would 10000% hard shove you here and kill you but I am practicing restraint this game because I did not enjoy hard shoving last game so I'm trying out being a nice person this game.

[Aristeia]

People being wrong, especially when one of those people, if town, has been tunnelled on me for most of the day, is not unexpected

being wrong about your alignment and thinking my reasoning is poor is unrelated.

For example; Bloodhail is hard townbinning you and thinks my reasoning is valid but not a reason to hard scumbin you.

[Aristeia]

it's borderline ridiculous for you to think I would defuse a datisi-bloodhail t/t fight 2 hours before d1 deadline by hard shoving you out of nowhere with a bullshit argument I'm not bad at playing scum and you should know this.

why not?

i was going to comment that saving me/bh for tomorrow would be a possible play so i don't get what's so impossible about this from you

that's not how thread dynamics works.

that's not how human nature works.

townies are by design unpredictable.

when I play scum I take my eliminations when I can get them. I do not save them for tomorrow because nobody knows what townies will do when they wake up tommorrow.

[Aristeia]

There is no guarantee that two town elims happen and we both know that your approach as scum is to just survive the day

It doesn’t matter if you burn towncred mislimming me if there is then a big t/t fight the next day because whoever “wins” on D2 also looks bad on D3 and towns have notoriously awful memories so are even less likely to remember that you killed town on D1

yes I'm so desperate to elim you that I'm hard shoving you today when I can just help you mislim irrelephant 3 days ago and bop you the next day

you make so much sense

if you're actually town here you might as well replace yourself with an omgus bot

[Aristeia]

If Ari is scum and datisi/bloodhail are t/t, do you really think that Ari is going to get me to vote skitter over her or get skitter to vote me over her?

considering you already boped yourself to the irrelephant elimination and claimed it would be a scum claim for you to defend yourself tomm im pretty sure you just get flipped tommorrow

if you didnt actually mean what you said about bopping yourself then i have even less respect for you than i do now.

[Aristeia]

its actually amazing i have so little respect for your town game that I can conceivably see this shit reaction coming from town!you because all you do is rage omgus as both alignments

[Aristeia]

im not even really pushing

i just floated the question to the triumvarite of mena!metatruthers who swear he must be town.

I will accept him as IC if you all think he can't possibly be scum

mena's the one having a freakout moment because how dare anyone suspect him

[Aristeia]

I find it astonishingly hypocritical that you complained that I was unpleasant beforehand and are now posting like this

I also think that Ari trying to deliberately be unpleasant and weaponise that is intensely scum indicative for her

I have been practicing immense amounts of restraint while you have been openly hostile towards me multiple times in this game

I am not a saint.

You will eventually break my resolve to be nice to you.

[Aristeia]

the fact that you are accusing me of hypocrisy when you have been far more hostile towards me than I have been towards you is just mindboggling to me.

I have never wanted to veer off into AtE this game but if you want to have a shit fight I will fucking end you

[Aristeia]

I’m going to choose to believe that you are being like this to try to redirect and make this about me as a person because you think it’s tactically the best way to survive and distract from yourself

I hope that it’s not because you are actually like this

that's rich coming from you

[Aristeia]

I’m going to choose to believe that you are being like this to try to redirect and make this about me as a person because you think it’s tactically the best way to survive and distract from yourself

you are a rage omgusser

if I am scum and you are town

I can simply survive by not provoking you at all.

I do not need to fake paranoia of you at EOD.

It is literally contrary to my win condition.

The fact you are not self aware enough to understand this shows how completely oblivious you are if you are town here.

[Aristeia]

Datisi, tell me that this is not incredibly reminiscent of the most recent case where I was right on ari being scum?

you were wrong for 7 day phases before you finally stumbled into the right answer by POE because everyone else is a divergent player who is very easy to read shut the fuck up about KTANE

[Aristeia]

I can simply survive by not provoking you at all.

I do not need to fake paranoia of you at EOD.

It is literally contrary to my win condition.

You evidently think you can get me killed either way and are quite possibly right! Which in either case invalidates the argument you’re trying to make in light of the aforementioned benefits to you of maintaining a t/t between dats/bh and avoiding a 5p elo where skitter and I are both in it with you

you said you are fine being flipped Bop style tomm after bloodhail flips town so why would i simply not just take you up on that offer

[Aristeia]

Datisi, tell me that this is not incredibly reminiscent of the most recent case where I was right on ari being scum?

you were wrong for 7 day phases before you finally stumbled into the right answer by POE because everyone else is a divergent player who is very easy to read shut the fuck up about KTANE

I was demonstrably correct for good reasons on you, and demonstrably had very strong reads into N1 even if I went wrong afterwards

keep telling me about how good you are i'm sure its very convincing for everyone

[Aristeia]

if you are town here mena

that means two things:

1) you think I'm a good player because you think town!me can't reasonably suspect you therefore it's scum!me trying to mislim you.

2) I think you're a bad player who rage omgusses anyone who dares suspect him as both alignments because I actually think you're bad enough to suspect me.

[Aristeia]

behave like what exactly?

you're the one being openly hostile towards me all game and flying directly into rage omgus mode as soon as I express suspicion of you.

am I really the one behaving unreasonably here?

the person you "bopped" as scum just decided he'd rather self vote and end the day rather than listen to any more of your fucking bullshit

[Aristeia]

look BH

I am not really interested in talking to mena anymore this game

he has crossed my line of "giving a shit"

if you want me to treat him as IC, tell me and I will do that for you.

I won't even care if we lose to scum!him I promise I won't hold it against you.

Let's just get this game over with I have nothing to say to him that will be productive.

[Aristeia]

mena i am not going to respond to any more of your posts for the rest of this game

you can push me i dont give a fuck

[Aristeia]

look BH

I am not really interested in talking to mena anymore this game

he has crossed my line of "giving a shit"

if you want me to treat him as IC, tell me and I will do that for you.

I won't even care if we lose to scum!him I promise I won't hold it against you.

Let's just get this game over with I have nothing to say to him that will be productive.

im sorry i get that this is tilting but i dont see it as scum and it sucks having it happen


idfk what to do about this exactly

I am sorry to pass the buck to you but I just can't deal with him being like this.

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Datisi

[Aristeia]

skitter you need to make a decision between bloodhail and datisi

blood hail you need to stop self voting

[Aristeia]

I decided on Dats instead of Bloodhail because when me/mena started shit fighting BH's response was to try to tamp down the conflict and self voted to try to force the eliminations inside himself/datisi

datisi's response was to feed on mena's worst impulses and say he thinks i'm actually scum.

if i'm wrong it's whatever I've been wrong before i'll be wrong in the future.

[Aristeia]

datisi is at 2 votes, roden and I are voting for him

[Aristeia]

Dats.

You are 1v1ing Bloodhail.

It is almost certain at the time when I expressed suspicion of Mena that you/bh were going to be eliminated today.

You said you weren't sure he's scum and he said he is quite sure you are scum.


After Mena flew into rage omgus mode and started hammering me for daring to suspect him;

Spoiler: Dats Reaction

Spoiler: BH Reaction

One of these looks like someone who really wants to resolve the 1v1, and the other one looks like somebody who is seeing a way out.

BH really wants to resolve this 1v1 so I'm going to take a leap of faith here on him. If you think I'm mafia you are welcome to vote for me with Mena.

[Aristeia]

Oh, actually I’m okay:

Ari, please do not join any future games with me after this is over, on this or any of your other alt accounts

p sure this is against OOG influence rules and sure I will comply with your request.

[Aristeia]

sorry skitter i am not good at self control yet again

[Aristeia]

mena is no longer viable probably

Two other people almost immediately either voted or said they’d vote for me, NK15 will hammer anything so struggling to see how you’re getting here

except I was punting the decision to skitter/bh/datisi its like you didnt even read what I posted

[Aristeia]

glad to see ari is ignoring me wrt "getting out of the 1v1" nonsense

I already quoted the posts you/bh made and expressed my opinion of them.

he looks like he wants to force resolution and you look like you are open to moving to me instead.

if I'm wrong I'm sorry.

[Aristeia]

i just wrote a toxic post but i've deleted it

i already feel very bad pls dont make me feel worse

[Aristeia]

like if u really want to flip me dear just tell me and ill self vote i dont really want to be here either

[Aristeia]

UNVOTE:

[Aristeia]

you and skitter can vote for him if you want to elim him

my heart isn't in it

[Aristeia]

I am not going to be online good night

hope everyone has a good weekend and hopefully time can heal all wounds

[Aristeia]

sorry for being mean mena

I do have terrible self control sometimes.

[Aristeia]

its probly just fireisred

i will have to reread

[Aristeia]

was kind of looking forward to getting night killed and not rereading tbh :<

[Aristeia]

I dont think its fire at all

so my thought process was:

I think the partner should be off-coalition and not on your original coalition for dats to ate me into dragging him into your coalition

which leaves [fire, mala, nk15]

and I don't think dats has the wim to work that hard if he was partnered with either mala or nk15

which leaves fire

[Aristeia]

I guess we could just flip nk15 cuz he's uber scummy

[Aristeia]

gosh fire has such a cute iso mb its not him ~_~

[Aristeia]

i dont think datisi mails it in regardless of who his partner is

mm yea but last time i saw him play scum in spring fling he was definitely not trying nearly as hard as here tho :>

[Aristeia]

Ok actually i cant find where dats said that but i very distinctly remember him telling me that that's how he'd be approaching the game here as scum

was it in the scum pt? :#

[Aristeia]

you read so much faster than me :<

[Aristeia]

def thought bloodhail was dying so kinda interesting that he didn't ig

have a dumb theory about faker dying that i will not share

me too :#

[Aristeia]

I think you know what it is

but it's too stupid to type out and I'd be embarrassed if I did >(-_-)<

[Aristeia]

I do find it somewhat funny if Datisi is playing one of his best scumgames but just happens to be paired with a partner that gets joy out of derptunneling his partner for fun and trolling them.

Also it would be somewhat of a tragedy I would also feel quite bad for him <3

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=86932

this is the iso of Peta where he breaks down how he felt NK15 played as scum:

viewtopic.php?t=86932&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

i'm aware of that game. that's why i said that nk15's play is very within his scum meta (which he agreed on lol). if i opened my role pm and i saw "ur scum w nk15", the first thing i'd do is go into the scum pt and lay out a plan on what exactly is he going to post because uh yeah. and if i saw him pulling that same shit again, i'd just start prodging and waiting for town to form a winning coalition so i can get out. anyway.

i was gonna write another paragraph about nk15's play here and why it doesn't make sense from town but 859 sums it up well.

was this what you were looking for skitter?

[Aristeia]

mb fire didnt shoot you cuz u said he was townie

[Aristeia]

you should never ask me to read datisi

[Aristeia]

i am so bad at reading him >_<

[Aristeia]

awww

you should've just said you clear me and hope i get nightkilled

the paranoia is for later dear

[Aristeia]

I do think it's cute you think my scum range is this big tho

[Aristeia]

awww

you should've just said you clear me and hope i get nightkilled

the paranoia is for later dear

i dont see any world where you get nked before me and i wanna have a winning poe

silly because I am townier than you

[Aristeia]

i kinda think its between fire/nk15 with a slight lean to fire tho i can do nk15 too

[Aristeia]

i am v impressed with fire's scum game tho if this is his scum game i'm probly just hideously wrong and he's just town hehe

[Aristeia]

i think i'm at, like

i don't want mala or nk15 in the coalition - i feel like this setup, coupled with the extremely short deadline, can feel very demoralizing for scum if they don't get onto the train early and that makes sense from both of them. i think it's fairly unlikely they're both scum because games are almost never that easy but i would be somewhat surprised if they were both town. i guess nk15 is slightly townier than mala buh meh.

fire is kinda missing his usual fire (hehe) and while i did like the way we lowkey mindmelded on irrel yesterday night i'm wondering if that's enough. the posts i'm reading from him on the previous page feel like reads pulled out of random.org. like i don't get why he has them or that he actually believes in them or how he arrived at them and etc.

so i'm left with me/mena/skitt/ari and one of std or irrel? bleh maybe they're both town and i'm not giving enough credit to The Vibes but also time is short

why did i join this game

I feel like this points more towards fire rather than mala/nk15 but maybe I'm just conf-biased.

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Fire hehe

[Aristeia]

if scum me wanted to kill mena i'd probly do it when he was at e-1?

or like sheep him on push relly dead and catch him on bop tomm.

[Aristeia]

what's left unsaid there is that if his partner isn't in the coalition then he kind of has to get in himself or else they just lose so he kind of has to do it?

[Aristeia]

roden does feel tonally p townie

[Aristeia]

I've seen Scum!Roden just give up and stop posting before

[Aristeia]

the annoyance with being even in the POE rings kind of townie to me

[Aristeia]

I think Mena is town.

why?

After reading Mena's ISO and getting a feeling for the game state, I don't think Mena vs Elephant is SvS. Mena switching from "kill STD" to "kill Rella -> Ari" after acknowledging he's the most likely elim today feels like a spew that would be harmful to his scum partner since I don't think it would be either of them in that scenario, which makes me think it's a genuine final reads list from a dying townie. I think their frustration with this Day phase is also genuine. Going back further, though I don't think STD is scum, I do think Mena's case on him came from a solvey mindset.

@Datisi:

Where's your head at? VCs aren't telling me anything about what you're thinking, you stuck to one coalition choice Day 1 and currently aren't voting anyone.

i have an iso >.> but basically, thinking mena is town for [meta reasons that seem to not vibe with anyone other than skitter], ari is town for the way she played d1. have been thinking skitter is most likely scum in the coalition for a while (but i've kinda liked her more recent posting i guess??? jury's still out), and getting increasingly nervous about irrel

outside the coalition, thinking fire is town but fuck if i know about the other three -- std is more likely to be town than the other two i guess but i am v low confidence on all of those

I actually did read your ISO, I just wanted an updated take since EoD is approaching and you've been fence sitting.

NK15 feels obvtown to me, he's too confident and tunneled to be scum, and everyone here is competent enough to coach him to not flail with his reads/solves going into Day 2. Fire is null to me only because they didn't seem to have the spotlight at all so far. I agree with STD likely being town, but disagree with your Skitter scum read, consensus nominations tend to be town and nothing in her ISO sticks out as scummy to me.

I've noticed while skimming that a lot of people think there's at least one scum between you and Ari, and while I agree, I think it's odd that no one really seemed to push you two. It's too late in the day to do it now, but you two should've been leading wagons imo, that would've given everyone plenty of info seeing who would push who and if your wagons would naturally dissipate. If you were both town, I believe scum would see you two as the optimal push on Day 2, and if I'm right on NK15 being town then scum likely would've backed him when he scum cased the two of you. I just don't see how there could be zero momentum towards wagoning either of you if you're both town and part of the coalition.

I think I'm going to end up voting Elephant today, I just want to finish going through his ISO first. If I end up town reading him though then idk.

Oof, I finished going through Elephant's ISO then saw ten more pages crop up and that he replaced out. I came away with a town lean, and after catching up I think his replacement is town. Idk who Bloodhail is an alt of but I like their entrance, and us having similar reads after replacing in feels like a good sign that I'm on the right track.

VOTE: Datisi

Gonna go back and reply to some stuff.

this kind of feels like town thought process. [tho he did forget his nk15 townread but I guess it feels like he forgot cuz he's town rather than he forgot cuz he's scum because I make excuses for people I townread for bad reasons]

[Aristeia]

NK15 why didn't you vote for Datisi at all yesterday if you were convinced he/me were scum together?

[Aristeia]

ANYWAY std iso

101 i dislike because it's a v easy way to get onto what's popular at the time. also the explanations for the votes are kinda lackluster because the description of my 37 is very uncharitable and "skitter seems to be solving" is like, such a low bar to place for someone like skitter

then, his vote of mena for 145/146. maybe it's me who's used to mena's sense of humour and writing style and those posts seemed very normal to me. (in fact they were a bit of a positive sign after the first few posts which felt way too boring but anyway.) std immediately jumping onto that feels like scum who saw a townie acting wacky and decided to try to spin them into looking bad, i.e. performative, because the words that they wrote were level-zero-thinking bad. like, i usually find that town is more likely to critically think about *why* mena would write something that maybe looks weird while scum is more likely to try to make it seem bad because that is their job description. yes i'm aware std later said he misunderstood or changed his mind or whatever no i still don't like it.

the rest of his iso is also... kinda boring. like, a bunch of it is joking around or arguing theory with mena. like, afair i don't think std usually puts out a lot of content as town or rather not a lot of "serious, well structured content", but there's usually some sorta thought process i can follow and here i don't think i can follow a lot of it. not sure if i could explain the reason of one read he had.

like, again, page 15 48 hours but it's not a Great look.

i feel that both irrel and std are some sorta vibe townreads for the majority of the game, and either my vibe radar is broken or they're getting read for nonsense reasons and idk which and mafia is a fuck

so i didn't go into this fully yesterday but one of the things that tipped me off on datisi was this about how he played the coalition stage:

it looked like he was systematically trying to weaken townreads on players like relly and std - as compared to everyone else who was trying to assemble a towncore, he loooked to be putting doubt on players as a means of making himself more likely to be included in the coalition

i don't think he pre-emptively tries to keep his partner out of the coalition if they're getting townread and i want to say this makes STD town (i think in general STD is, like, way way outside his scumrange this game but additional evidence helps)

looking back on this post - I think it's in response to STD's coalition at 306 which relly sheeped at 326

it's also what skitter wanted at EOD1

so uh go me for drowning out people with better reads than me ooops i sux :/

[Aristeia]

it wasn't very clear to me who you wanted for your fifth player.

I had offered to be your fifth but I didn't think you actually wanted me to be your fifth.

in the case where your fifth is datisi - I'd rather take STD's spot and sheep Datisi's coalition because then he would be responsible for coalition failure and it would be easier for me to vote for him.

[Aristeia]

for example:

well you were the most healed person the first time I did a VC so I guess you're kind of stuck being the leader unless someone else wants it.

I can be your fifth if you want me to be your fifth because I know I'm town but if you don't know it I suggest you find someone you can trust.

I was offering you your core 4 + me in this post but I never got the idea from you that you were ok with that.

[Aristeia]

I meant that I wanted Datisi to have a chance of winning the game for us[by picking a correct coalition] in case the coalition fails and you want to kill him.

[Aristeia]

Ok if std being in it isnt viable i can probably compromise on that but that is not my ideal, i really would like std in it

And honestly to be perfectly frank if it failed i would probably flip you first
Probablh something like dats -> mena -> ari -> irrel
Maybe swap mena/ari idk

you said here you wanted to kill him if the coalition failed

so I'd rather let him take a shot with his coalition - then if you want to kill him still, it'd be like his fault for the coalition failing so he'd have some agency in it.

if you had pushed skitter/irrel/mena/std/datisi thru, and then coalition failed, i would not have been happy with you killing datisi cuz it wouldn't have been his coalition that failed.

[Aristeia]

Ok if std being in it isnt viable i can probably compromise on that but that is not my ideal, i really would like std in it

And honestly to be perfectly frank if it failed i would probably flip you first
Probablh something like dats -> mena -> ari -> irrel
Maybe swap mena/ari idk

you said here you wanted to kill him if the coalition failed

so I'd rather let him take a shot with his coalition - then if you want to kill him still, it'd be like his fault for the coalition failing so he'd have some agency in it.

if you had pushed skitter/irrel/mena/std/datisi thru, and then coalition failed, i would not have been happy with you killing datisi cuz it wouldn't have been his coalition that failed.

it is kind of weird why dats didnt just take the ski/irrel/mena/std/datisi coalition tho

I'd think that'd be easier for him to dodge the mislim in and std would be easier to mislim.

i actually dont understand why he dragged me into things

[Aristeia]

maybe its just a trajectory thing - he already ate'd me into voting for his coalition so it would look weird af to switch things up

[Aristeia]

there are some very good spots in fire's iso but on the balance I still feel like this is clever scheming scum!fire rather than say just town!fire; I could be like unreasonably tunneled on his slot - I have a tendency to get unreasonably tunneled.

[Aristeia]

like fire saying to include me cuz if im scum its with a townread partner around the time you were looking for a fifth for your team is incredibly brave if he is partnered with datisi

[Aristeia]

i think if ari is scum she's likely scum with someone who is already in, and so there is very little utility to leaving her out

Probably still you but apparently i relish paranoia and indecision
I.e. i'm still not confident on a 5th yet, if i had to pick one would probably be you but still not confident enuf to settle on that if that makes sense

I will probably get over this closer to deadline

like if you just say ok ill add ari and the team is fire-dats they just lose?

[Aristeia]

UNVOTE:

mmm don't really need that sitting at e-1 rn

reflexively unvoting irrel at e-1 2 min after mena puts irrel there (vc was bad and I didnt even notice the e-1 vote)

extended the day after his trajectory getting on the relly wagon was early and fine imo.

[Aristeia]

At rhat moment i think i was talking abt dats
And that's a point in fire's favor, no?

Pedit yeah i'm sure >.>

yes it is

he is asking me what i found that were good points in fire's favor

[Aristeia]

I guess the reason I don't like trust fire despite these points

is that they could easily be planted/designed to look good on iso review rather than organically generated?

its like having something that is good if things show up later down the line rather than just naturally be good.

as in performative.

like how does he know unvoting relly is good if he doesnt know relly is town?

how does he know i am town and me joining skitters coalition would win the game?

its like something that looks good but not in the moment.

[Aristeia]

like in lake melancholy

fire was not very protown in his voting? he just kind of tunneled on town afair and was wrong. but his thought process was v pure

here it feels like it is designed to look good.

[Aristeia]

i dont actually have too much confidence in this read lol.

i just have feeeels

[Aristeia]

also i have stupid reason for thinking nk15 is town

like

1) i think dats was telling truth about why he isnt partnered with nk15 - sounded like offended caught for wrong reasons dats

2) i think nk15!scum would enjoy voting and pushing datisi!scum partner but he never did

my reasons r somewhat stupid so i would never let nk15 actually endgame with them so i am fine if you want to kill him today. i think very good chance i am just wrong here

[Aristeia]

that was my very sneaky way of trying to see if you knew faker's main

you are so sneaky

[Aristeia]

still kind of think its just fire tbh >.>

i am such a bad tunneler

[Aristeia]

how will i be able to fool you all with my secret scum skills when i roll scum if you don't even think im obvtown now smh

just loudly and confidently tunnel a townie and repeat over and over


I tend to townread shameless arrogance >.>

[Aristeia]

hehe

[Aristeia]

I was saving my bh n1'd faker theory for after fire flips town

[Aristeia]

well if you flip scum I won't have to actually say it !

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

(If ari is still alive in elo tho flip her ^)

[Aristeia]

I guess we are doing this

VOTE: NK15

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

VOTE: fire

[Aristeia]

it doesn't matter when you get mislimmed as town its still taking a mislim spot - it is better to try to win.

[Aristeia]

tell me more tell me more

[Aristeia]

when i was thinking about things overnight on n1

[Aristeia]

like does it really make sense for Roden to bus Datisi ?

his slot isn't exactly likely to endgame even if Datisi flips scum on D1.

when Datisi e-1'd BH near deadline, the voters on BH were datisi-skitter-mena-nk15 - so datisi + 3 flipped townies, partner is not on the wagon and could've pushed the wagon over.

why not just push bloodhail dead on d1 there unless partner is pretty well situated?

[Aristeia]

it's more like an active scumread. It's not really poe

I can write out a case if you think it would help.

[Aristeia]

how does Datisi's elim clear fire?

[Aristeia]

/shrug

i think it's ari

going to leave and not explain that for several hours

can talk about this with you if you want to

it is fine if you don't want to as well

[Aristeia]

how does Datisi's elim clear fire?

The way Fire played it felt unaligned. They added pressure that wasn't necessary if they were partnered, and it wouldn't indicate associatives between them if Fire just voted out Blood. The mad scramble to flip Datisi at the last couple hours shouldn't have happened if the team was Datisi/Fire.

Then again, we're on Day 4 now and it wasn't NK15. Also wasn't Skitter apparently, which I didn't expect since I did town lock her but I don't understand why she was killed.

I don't understand.

Fire didn't vote Datisi until like the last minute when Datisi was at 3 votes[roden, me, std] and BH/Skitter are likely to vote for Datisi, I don't really see how fire voting for Datisi means anything atp.

[Aristeia]

I think skitter probably was killed to make me look bad because she was like "flip ari at elo"

[Aristeia]

she as also not in the POE and p obvtown

[Aristeia]

you should vote for who you think is mafia rather than vote for yourself

[Aristeia]

getting mislimed at elo and getting mislimed the day b4 elo is practically the same thing because you're getting mislimed either way

[Aristeia]

how does Datisi's elim clear fire?

The way Fire played it felt unaligned. They added pressure that wasn't necessary if they were partnered, and it wouldn't indicate associatives between them if Fire just voted out Blood. The mad scramble to flip Datisi at the last couple hours shouldn't have happened if the team was Datisi/Fire.

Then again, we're on Day 4 now and it wasn't NK15. Also wasn't Skitter apparently, which I didn't expect since I did town lock her but I don't understand why she was killed.

I don't understand.

Fire didn't vote Datisi until like the last minute when Datisi was at 3 votes[roden, me, std] and BH/Skitter are likely to vote for Datisi, I don't really see how fire voting for Datisi means anything atp.

Because he put Datisi in hammer range instead of just voting out Blood earlier when he had the chance.

1] Putting Datisi in "hammer range" doesn't mean anything because Datisi was at 3 votes and skitter/blood hail had both not voted for Datisi yet, Blood Hail obviously has no issue with voting for Datisi and Skitter had unvoted Blood Hail and I kind of doubt she votes for BH after BH offered to self-vote himself off to resolve the 1v1.

2] "voting out bloodhail when he had the chance"

like blood hail wagon at peak was at 4 [nk15, skitter, mena, datisi] - so 3 flipped townies + datisi!mafia. Which means any partner of Datisi's had the oppurtunity to vote off Blood Hail, it's not really clearing if it's something p much anyone can do?

[Aristeia]

what would you do as scum?

[Aristeia]

hi bloodhail!! good to see u hope you're town

like I dun see why scum!you can't react like this?

[Aristeia]

ok so if you're scum and you're nervous he catches you, then what do you do about it?

[Aristeia]

like the way I see the game state there

we're at 3-3 Mena/Irrel

me/datisi/you are not voting

Datisi is aiming to vote Irrel because he has a rock hard townread of Mena chiseled in stone.

You're aiming to vote for Mena because your trajectory is that his confidence is unlike KTane because its not backed up by an actual case.

That's fine for a scumteam of you/dats to do atp because its T v T and you it doesn't matter where I end up voting.

But when bloodhail replaces in, locktowns mena right away and votes Datisi, what are you supposed to do atp? You can't exactly switch sides in the 1v1 off Mena back to Bloodhail to chainsaw for Datisi, you're just kind of awkwardly telling him that Mena is the better elim but you can't really convince him.

[Aristeia]

the vote count was

Datisi 3 [Roden, Ari, STD]
Blood Hail 3[Nk15, Datisi, Blood Hail]
Ari 1 [Mena]
Mena 1[Fire]

Not Voting 1 [ Skitter]


I think it's pretty clear skitter/BH could swing to vote off Datisi

voting for BH is dangerous because BH can always unvote and it's unclear where hammer vote on BH comes from.

[Aristeia]

i think i (together with datisi, probably) make the decision quickly as to whether bloodhail's read is going to have a lasting impact, aka is datisi going to die at some point now. if yes, then let bloodhail convince me asap so that i can be early on the datisi train. if no, then distract and either go all in to try to lim bloodhail or push elsewhere and don't give in to being convinced by bloodhail

If you/datisi were capable of making decisions quickly as scum I think you probly elim relly when Mena hardpushes him and you can get them chained rather than wait for the game state to lurch out of your control thru replaceout.

[Aristeia]

the vote count was

Datisi 3 [Roden, Ari, STD]
Blood Hail 3[Nk15, Datisi, Blood Hail]
Ari 1 [Mena]
Mena 1[Fire]

Not Voting 1 [ Skitter]


I think it's pretty clear skitter/BH could swing to vote off Datisi

voting for BH is dangerous because BH can always unvote and it's unclear where hammer vote on BH comes from.

Why does Blood unvote when he self voted to secure that an elim actually happens? He was pushing Datisi harder than anyone and even he didn't think Datisi would get voted out over him.

he self voted when me/mena were shit fighting because he wanted to force elim between himself/datisi instead of having a distraction derail the thread.

that was when there were only 2 votes on Datisi between himself and you.

when there are three votes on datisi, it makes datisi a more viable elimination than himself - and I assume he would prefer to eliminate Datisi to eliminating himself to resolve the 1v1.

[Aristeia]

i think i (together with datisi, probably) make the decision quickly as to whether bloodhail's read is going to have a lasting impact, aka is datisi going to die at some point now. if yes, then let bloodhail convince me asap so that i can be early on the datisi train. if no, then distract and either go all in to try to lim bloodhail or push elsewhere and don't give in to being convinced by bloodhail

If you/datisi were capable of making decisions quickly as scum I think you probly elim relly when Mena hardpushes him and you can get them chained rather than wait for the game state to lurch out of your control thru replaceout.

I guess this isn't fair

a town player ragequitting isn't something forseeable. But Dats does have an issue with being decisive when he needs to be and he tends to wait too long for things. I don't really expect a team of you/him to be able to instantly decide on a strategy as soon as blood hail hits the thread.

I think you were probably disoriented and thinking about how to navigate things.

[Aristeia]

ok and scum!me doesnt nightkill you because?

[Aristeia]

what does your read on me have to do with me willing to kill you at night?

[Aristeia]

I'd kill you at night regardless of whether you scumread me or townread me

[Aristeia]

I think you're spending a lot of time thinking about things when it's fairly obviously to me that if I were scum I would just power wolf instead of whatever this angsty rom com version of me is.

[Aristeia]

i also think there's pretty heavy scum motive in trying to deflect attention onto town-mena when i entered the game calling out datisi and trying to 1v1 him. i think that's relevant because i think that play more heavily fits a scum profile than other players who were less influential/more indecisive. i think trying to save a partner in a 1v1 by deflecting onto town is something scum-ari would do.

it would be significantly easier for me to just mislim you and then chain mena on d3 rather than try to start a wagon on mena from 0.

also as scum I mostly just townread mena because it's not worth the omgus from him to push him esp when he's busy tunneling townies.

[Aristeia]

I think you're spending a lot of time thinking about things when it's fairly obviously to me that if I were scum I would just power wolf instead of whatever this angsty rom com version of me is.

by any decent indication that looks like what you were doing

i also think there's pretty heavy scum motive in trying to deflect attention onto town-mena when i entered the game calling out datisi and trying to 1v1 him. i think that's relevant because i think that play more heavily fits a scum profile than other players who were less influential/more indecisive. i think trying to save a partner in a 1v1 by deflecting onto town is something scum-ari would do.

it would be significantly easier for me to just mislim you and then chain mena on d3 rather than try to start a wagon on mena from 0.

also as scum I mostly just townread mena because it's not worth the omgus from him to push him esp when he's busy tunneling townies.

you didn't have the trajectory on irrel to be able to pull it off and if you swapped to pushing me after i come into the game gunning for datisi it's bad optics for you

optics don't matter to me

[Aristeia]

also you're not solving right now, just interjecting into the argument between fire and roden

?

I said since d3 that fire is the last scum

I'm not sure what more solving I am supposed to do

[Aristeia]

that's not solving

that's convincing you I am right

I am not sure I can actually convince you I am right

[Aristeia]

I think we have enough history where nothing I say to you is going to convince you I am right or that I am town.

but I think you respect my reads enough to sheep me after I'm dead.

so it makes very little sense for me to actually put much effort into casing fire.

[Aristeia]

I also wouldn't mind you ignoring my reads post my death either. I could always just be wrong? It is what it is.

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

I mostly offered to sheep skitter this game because she was nice enough to defer to me in Lake M and me being assertive in that game was unpleasant for both of us.

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

i am fine losing to him if he is mafia

the datisi/relly interactions where relly lost his shit and pressed rep out look very unaligned

[Aristeia]

not saying the rep out is ai

the interactions right before it look very unaligned

[Aristeia]

i am fairly sure i could push u in that spot

flip you

flip mena next day

and flip skitter for the hat trick

if i were mafia

[Aristeia]

possibly arrogant

but probably true

[Aristeia]

i have to flip in the coalition so i would go by order of easiest to hardest

[Aristeia]

I have no regrets

[Aristeia]

I guess I do regret losing my temper with mena at the end there

I do kind of wish that didn't happen.

[Aristeia]

what i'm paranoid of is this: if ari is scum, this is the last day it's possible for me to catch her. if we vote roden and he's town then ari kills me and gets an f3 she's been setting up for 2 days and probably wins it.

I do want to say that if you won't listen to me on fire when i'm alive, you should at least elim me so you can listen to me after I'm dead.

elimming roden here is just icky

[Aristeia]

ok

[Aristeia]

I wouldn't support her adding either fire or std

I would've been fine with NK15 but she was not going to add him

[Aristeia]

I meant fire or mala not fire or std

[Aristeia]

there's nothing really bold about it if I'm mafia? It'd just be betting that skitter would not add nk15 to her coalition of 4.

[Aristeia]

fire when you e-1'd the coalition, what did you think the scum team was?

[Aristeia]

Ahhhh that's a very difficult question
I dont feel confident enuf to be sheeped
At the same time i dislike relinquishing the decision

This is unhelpful, i know >.>

I'm at me/irrel/mena/std

I dont want mala in
I'm surprisingly ok with fire rn
Nk is probably (?) town but i dont really want them in anyways
And then i guess i kinda vibe with fire's point that if ari is scum its probably with someone in the consensus coalition anyways, so i'm no longer entirely opposed

I guess i dont object to putting ari in but i'd want her to go in with dats, and i want the condition to be that if its elo and she hasnt found all the scum, she gets flipped
Otherwise i probably want dats in

This is a lot of words to say i guess my ideal coalitions are:
Me/mena/irrel/std/dats or me/mena/irrel/dats/ari or

If i try to put in fire i want to bump mena which is surprising to me

when skitter says this

why don't you try to get into the coalition?

[Aristeia]

also can you show me when you decided NK15 = scum?

because skimming your iso with Nk15 in F5 shows only mentions of him being town prior to coalition failure

[Aristeia]

i mean she says she has 4 names she wants...

if you think those 4 names are good, why don't you ask her to make you the fifth?

[Aristeia]

ok so my issue here is;



this post is basically saying you think the solve is mala/nk15 and it doesn't matter to you which 5 of 7 go into the coalition or you are confident in [ski/dat/ari/mena] and you don't care about who the fifth is?

but there's nothing in your progression that says nk15 is mafia to you - I picked out every mention of NK15 from your iso pre-coalition failure and there's like nothing that indicates you think he's likely to be scum, if anything you have him as likely town;

[Aristeia]

like idk why you expect i should have a progression on nk15 at that time? nothing i say about him is going to have any impact on what coalition gets formed. if it fails with him outside, we're not focusing him yet anyway. if it succeeds with him outside, yay we win. ig i could be partner hunting, which i did do some of, but there wasn't a lot of point in talking about it in thread, i just had my own notes

my goal in coalition phase isn't really scumhunting anyway unless i have a scumread on someone who is widely townread. this is like the same thing we talked about earlier where you were confused about my irrel push and me saying that i wanted to focus on him due to him being townread

It's not about a progression it's that your statement here:

ok yea i want skitter/datisi/ari/menalque

fine with whoever is consensus of me/irrel/std in the last spot

implies you believe mala+nk15 is the solve

but nothing in your iso indicates you were even scumreading or scumleaning NK15.

[Aristeia]

no, at that point i think the solve is irrel/std, but i don't really trust my own reads enough to push for that very hard.

I have a very hard time believing that you think the solve is irrel/std and you would write this in the thread:

ok yea i want skitter/datisi/ari/menalque

fine with whoever is consensus of me/irrel/std in the last spot

[Aristeia]

it's not a matter of compromising on your reads?

if you think irrel/std is the solve, why wouldn't you want yourself to be put in coalition instead of them?

[Aristeia]

who do you want to elim today?

[Aristeia]

@Roden please stop voting for yourself

[Aristeia]

happy birthday fen

[Aristeia]

i guess the simplest way i can explain my fire read is;

every one of his actions are directly helping the scumside win

and he is also self conscious and aware of this so he does it in a way thats just sneaky

[Aristeia]

nope

in your town games you are unaware that you are scumsiding so you come off as extremely pure and not sneaky

[Aristeia]

the indignation could come from scum who's plan got derailed when they had to put both of them on the coalition. she blames datisi as a way of distancing, but also more treating datisi as town using words like "misflip" like there's no consideration about datisi being scum.

the indignation comes because she accused me of not wanting to sheep her when I was very clear I wanted to sheep her.

I used the word "misflip" because that is the word skitter used in the post that I am addressing.

[Aristeia]

like she came up with this world where scum!me sets up Datisi to be the fall guy to misflip when the coalition fails.

this is pretty much never my plan if I am scum because it is incredibly hard to misflip town!datisi

also he convinced me to join his coalition, I did not convince him to join my coalition so she didn't even get who was pulling who into a coalition correct.

[Aristeia]

1056 she goes back into a tr of datisi to help cover it up if scum!ari

1056 was written for skitter who requested my read of Dats;

Are how confident are u in town-dats?

I think if you want to be the leader here you should put the reads you feel confident in.

I have

a lot of thoughts

about Dats and I'm not sure how helpful it will be for you to read them but I can write them down if you want me to.

I'm not confident I can find scum!him.

It just took a long time to write out and think through for me.

[Aristeia]

I do miss him though.

[Aristeia]

if you lim me today are you suggesting that fen/roden sheep me tomm or you think maybe I don't know what I am talking about?

[Aristeia]

its ok

[Aristeia]

I mean Roden has self voted and fucked off from the thread

are you really scumreading that

[Aristeia]

you know the goal of the town is to kill the last scum right?

it doesn't actually matter if everyone gets to sign the yearbook.

[Aristeia]

like if you think roden is scum

make the case for roden being scum

if you think i'm scum

make the case for me being scum.

you're just kind of twisting in the wind like you're not sure what's going on or where you need to go to survive another two days of this

[Aristeia]

that's a lot of words for "i am poe scumreading you but i can't vote you because i'm scared"

[Aristeia]

it's just a game fire

winning isn't that important

just do it

[Aristeia]

ok

[Aristeia]

I didn't fuck off, I'm waiting on some kind of follow up from STD.

I meant it in a funny way.

hope everyone has a great holiday weekend!

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

I still think it is fireisredsir but I won't be upset if you chose to vote out roden tommorrow instead

[Aristeia]

um if fire is mafia he just shoots you and std votes out roden so we still loss

[Aristeia]

like i guess maybe its std

[Aristeia]

dont think it makes sense for town!him to be dismissive of me and also give me 0 engagement on fire!scum while pushing to kill me

[Aristeia]

i guess that is somewhat desperate becuz if it is fire i think we alrdy lost since town!std is tunneled

[Aristeia]

intent, i guess

any final thoughts from anyone

pls hammer

i miss dats

thank you for the game

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

wouldnt that still imply I am town

[Aristeia]

no i actually scumread him

[Aristeia]

ty

gl tomm