large normal 239. game over

[Nero Cain]

I was gonna say this game will be lit but it'll prob be a lurkfest. At least I provide my own fireworks.


ItalianoVD

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: ItalianoVD

[Nero Cain]

Is that something you actually believe b/c that seems like a silly thought.

[Nero Cain]

im town
i responded faster than anyone else

[Nero Cain]

i kikr?

#NC4DV

[Nero Cain]

no

[Nero Cain]

How many scums are here in large?

check ur pt

[Nero Cain]

4 in a 16 yeah

[Nero Cain]

Could be 3 with low town power

[Nero Cain]

DeasVail - or maybe this one is mafia

Why

prob b/c its pretty basic to be wary of a neg utility claim b/c every once in a while scum do claim one and skate by.

day is young but I already want to kill half this thread. I really am a roman emporer!

[Nero Cain]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


more votes on ItalianoVD

[Nero Cain]

JV, you are asking the silliest questions right now....

[Nero Cain]

Why

y not? its p4 and you are concerned about a wagon on ???? players lol

[Nero Cain]

y is this not town Nero?

[Nero Cain]

cakes with the scummy move of voting my dv enabler

[Nero Cain]

Nero what do you think about gamma?

in a not so surprising note, I don't really like him that much.

Didn't really like his soft defense of me in VOTE: 48 and I think his thought that there could be 3 scum is laughable. Would be funny if he was scum that slipped that his team was 3 wich means there'd be a traitor and guy true claimed his traitor role.

[Nero Cain]

?????

joking about being a jester is dumb

[Nero Cain]

joking about being a jester is dumb

[Nero Cain]

you ARE a rauthe alt right?

[Nero Cain]

VD

[Nero Cain]

I'm not following a meta-read of someone I am unaware the meta of

you've played with me like 3 or 4 times or was this about VD? Also you seem like you are scum reading me in 108, no?

[Nero Cain]

going to put trust into someone that could very well be scum

ngl but this line seems weird and worrisome to me. You've never expressed any suspicion of VD so it comes across a bit like distancing to me.

[Nero Cain]

ok kool. Still think the 3 in a 16 is dumb though.

[Nero Cain]

Spoiler:

I know town!Nero And all this right here...

and yet you didn't vote me until I voted you. If you found my posting scummy prior to 58 why not call me out?

scum!nero patronizes scumreads.

Do I? But even if do I don't think I was patronizing cakez.

town!nero doesn't say he's town.

pretty sure this is untrue. I mean true, I don't yell I'm town ad nausem but the idea that I don't call myself town as town is ludicrous and I don't think you actually believe this.

scum!nero shades

PROVIDING SHADE IS A SERVICE!

but real talk

I feel like accusing someone of "shade" has prob lost its meaning these days. I and others are accused of "shade" all the time when it's just scumhunting. In this particular case, it was more of a cheeky comment b/c the how many scum are in a particular setup is or should be pretty easy to discern. Now over90 might actually be new and not an alt so I don't hold it against him but hamma's 3 in a 16 is

town!nero doesn't "want to kill half the thread"!

I'm always bloodlusty as town.

town!nero is NOT lazy!

no, I am not. What makes you think the leading poster is being lazy? "zzzzzzzz" is something I post when I think things are boring. For someone that claims to know me, it sure is odd that you didn't know that.

More patronizing?

I don't think you know what this word means.

And yet more...

it was a semi-serious RVS page 4 wagon with 2 votes on you and STD was making a big deal over it.

Honestly, this feels like a lazy OMGUS case where you just when through my ISO and put down "scumNero does this, scumNero does that."

[Nero Cain]

so kitty r u gonna engage me or are you just trying to keep me at arms length?

[Nero Cain]

yeah, all those 3 scum in a 16 player is a really common setup. get real, NK15

[Nero Cain]

Do you really expect me to try to case you on page 6? I don't case people this early.

no, but you said that you didn't think that this was similar to my town game and you could use words to back that statement up. Odc you can just say you were sheeping VD.

The cardinal sin of waiting for more posts from a player before seeing whether to commit to a read or not.

you are being hesitant. It's also early game and I'm nowhere near elimination range...the whole "I need to see whether to commit" sounds like a fence sit.

[Nero Cain]

yeah, all those 3 scum in a 16 player is a really common setup. get real, NK15

This is funnier having been in an Nk15 setup like this.

the last 5 large normals have been

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88987 5/19 (or 4.5 depending on your views on traitor)

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88192 3/15

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87720 4/16

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87368 4/17

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86774 4/16

Obviously, there are going to be games that buck the trend but more times than not its

3 scum in a 13 player

4 scum in 14-21

5 or more scum in 21+

So I think the safe assumption is that it'll be 4 scum but it's not really an important point

[Nero Cain]

just making sure. Your play just seems so different. Not sure if that's an alt thing or an alignment thing.

[Nero Cain]

that's trash reasoning

[Nero Cain]

and sort of a backtrack? Your case on me was meta and it's been proven wrong and no one besides Kitty is following it and now your case is that I haven't done enough. Where was that reasoning earlier?

[Nero Cain]

so much for making me a DV, you liar!

[Nero Cain]

I find it funny ppl shaded kitty for not wanting to case early and then shaded italiano for casing early. Or was it setup spec? Either way it felt a bit trigger happy there.

I'm not sure if that was what was actually the point. No one really expects Kitty to have a case on me but if Kitty is scum reading me then not voting me when there's only like 1 vote on me seems sketch, no? Sometimes scum will not join wagons until there's a bit more meat. As for VD, I still think the case was forced and he's overcompensating. What do you think of the case on me?

[Nero Cain]

2. What's wrong with just being somewhat cautious this early?

I think early game is the best time to not be cautious and it looks like you just know I'm town that is afraid to vote me. I mean maybe I can understand that you are suspicious of me but that suspicion hasn't formed into a full on scum read yet but still seems iffy to me.

what did you like about VD's case?

and now your case is that I haven't done enough.

Wrong.

Even though there hasn't been much of anything in this game so far, I feel town!you would've done more by now.

is this not a change in reasoning? I mean maybe you could argue that it's something you are adding onto your meta case but I think that's BS. I think that no one was bitting on your meta case so you threw out some charged wording that I wasn't doing enough. I think I'm doing plenty.

[Nero Cain]

i think you're trying to for it in a way that mafia wouldn't like why pick a fight with nero he's just going to shit on you

It depends, like yes scum generally tend to shy away from picking fights but scum will attack others and scum has very much retaliated against me in the past.

[Nero Cain]

I'm interested in why we are just both town and that we weren't partners distancing.

this is a very weird comment but maybe you've started to realize that you bit off more than you can chew and are just trying to salvage things by accusing me of being your buddy?

I wasn't really expecting to "convince" anyone on meta, but this day is long and if I'm right,

if I'm right

you say. Seems like you are trying to deescalate. Not sure why you'd make a case that you didn't think would "convince" anyone.

[Nero Cain]

Yes, I briefly blacklisted him for this specifically.

rude

[Nero Cain]

but I've seen enough that I'm comfortable with nero!scum.

Why did you not answer my question?

[Nero Cain]

and yet you didn't vote me until I voted you. If you found my posting scummy prior to 58 why not call me out?

it was inside the spoiler of 124 but I know you didn't click on it b/c you didn't care about my responses b/c this is just an agenda driven push back.

[Nero Cain]

I do radiate good vibes

[Nero Cain]

well maybe not 2 u

[Nero Cain]

Last game I pushed several people early and they were all town. I don't want to repeat my mistakes.

honestly, this doesn't make me feel any better lol. I mean maybe I could see you go "oh my reads were really bad last game so I'm going try to let others lead." but then I think there's a good chunk of possible scum motivation in that.

[Nero Cain]

I still rather VD or Kitty. Like I get why TS is getting wagoned and in a vacuum his post was scummy as all get out but I sorta think he's town and scum are wagoning him.

[Nero Cain]

I know VD replaced into the game so it might explain things, IDK but I think the tone here is more forceful and it's like he's overcompensating.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89392

also, his case was just trash and it annoys me a bit that you guys are just letting him skate by with such nonsense

[Nero Cain]

what do you think of VD?

[Nero Cain]

yet? its not like his role pm will change

[Nero Cain]

Already answered in 154.

naw

you are claiming that you had reasons to suspect me prior to my vote on you. I'm asking why you never bothered to call me out.

why I think your playing different

I am not playing any different than I normally do and you've done a poor job of expressing that but it's not like people are willing to think the guy bullshitting can be scum.

Or maybe they are thinking about it and seeing that you are playing a bit different than normal town Nero.

there's one other person besides you that thinks I'm "playing differently" but he's prob scum anyways.

If there's scum on the Tako wagon it's probably Save the Dragons

not kitty? not gamma? not vd? i mean yeah STD is scummy but its not like he's the sole scummy vote.

[Nero Cain]

I think my top townreads are Gamma, RCE, over90 and Carcalilly

other than the fact that I think I'm obvtown, I think your Gamma town read is whack.

[Nero Cain]

possibly, yes

[Nero Cain]

Mith grant me bullets!

[Nero Cain]

It seems like you take issue with my Tako vote, Nero
What’s your concern with it?

Why did you not vote him in 166?

but there was also

Nero what do you think about gamma?

in a not so surprising note, I don't really like him that much.

Didn't really like his soft defense of me in 48 and I think his thought that there could be 3 scum is laughable.

Would be funny if he was scum that slipped that his team was 3 wich means there'd be a traitor and guy true claimed his traitor role.

something about the way italiano cased nero feels off to me

I think VD is overzealous but don't think that's scum-indicative yet

you think someone is off but not that they are scum, what is this?

[Nero Cain]

If there's scum on the Tako wagon it's probably Save the Dragons

not kitty? not gamma? not vd? i mean yeah STD is scummy but its not like he's the sole scummy vote.

I didn't get scum vibes from the votes those people made

weren't you just agreeing with me that kitty was scummy?

[Nero Cain]

cakez said he was making a joke

[Nero Cain]

Don't know what Cakez does for a living but obviously, he's not a comedian.

[Nero Cain]

I still rather VD or Kitty. Like I get why TS is getting wagoned and in a vacuum his post was scummy as all get out but I sorta think he's town and scum are wagoning him.

How's he not scummy in an atmosphere then?

sometimes ppl that are "scummy" still have a town pm.

[Nero Cain]

I hate the taco wagon but gamma doesn't jump out as the scummiest vote.

Who is?

[Nero Cain]

is the Dannflor slot going to be replaced or like what is going on there?

[Nero Cain]

I mean, who in their right mind hates taco wagons?

[Nero Cain]

oh hey. There's an actual restaurant in VA called taco wagon. Let's go.

[Nero Cain]

I still rather VD or Kitty. Like I get why TS is getting wagoned and in a vacuum his post was scummy as all get out but I sorta think he's town and scum are wagoning him.

How's he not scummy in an atmosphere then?

sometimes ppl that are "scummy" still have a town pm.

Elaborate why you think that way about TS.

Well, I already said that I wasn't a big fan of those voting him.

it got 6 votes in less than 200 posts

and

KittyTacky (3): mq.bosco, DeasVail, Not Known 15

takotsubo syndrome (6): SirCakez, ItalianoVD, Gamma Emerald, KittyTacky, Not Known 15, Save The Dragons

looks like a CW to you

[Nero Cain]

I am now a mason with sircakez

[Nero Cain]

RCE, if you thought Gamma could be trying to pocket me why is it bad that I was suspicious of him?

[Nero Cain]

I think if VD were town and actually had a scum read on me he would have continued to sit on me instead of leave at the drop of a haat.

[Nero Cain]

I thought it was a political answer angled more at guessing where I was going with the line of questioning.

why is a political answer instead of ya know, my feelings and thoughts?

[Nero Cain]

I'm not sure that's a very good way to scumhunt.

[Nero Cain]

it depends but sometimes scum will town read those that are scum reading them.

[Nero Cain]

b/c scum is comfortable in this game state.

[Nero Cain]

b/c scum is comfortable in this game state.

Why's the gamestate bad?

I'm not sure if scum is being wagoned while scum VD is not being wagoned. Assuming that scererio is true that seems like it's not a good gamestate for town.

[Nero Cain]

Would you expect scum to push for a competing scum wagon if both are scum?

yes

[Nero Cain]

how does this make you feel?

[Nero Cain]

This NK15 wagon feels like it exists solely because people don't like the Tako wagon

Also, it's one guy voting the b/c he thinks nk15 is scum, and VD votes anything that moves.

[Nero Cain]

I think if VD were town and actually had a scum read on me he would have continued to sit on me instead of leave at the drop of a haat.

but yes the poor case is scummy as shit too

[Nero Cain]

why are you being so useless with your vote tako?

[Nero Cain]

This comment for example, you felt the need to call out/question when I feel like you understood the sentiment.

you don't feel that it's a little contradictory? Arguing that something is off but not scum reading said slot seems real fence sitty to me.

Ngl, I saw it more as an attempt to get the game rolling from its semi-beginning state than anything else, which is why I feel alright about it. I'll admit I kinda disregarded the content of it since it seemed to me like pure metagaming which idk anything about.

this is...a very generous spin. Like obviously, players can have a different opinion than me but I didn't really feel like it was to get the game rolling. I think the game was going absolutely fine. When he voted me and pushed me he had 3 votes on him so his vote seemed way more of a reaction to getting wagoned than trying to start the game.

He also spent a good chunk of time talking about me and defending his case and absolutely doubled down in 398. If this was some "lol i wuz just getting the game rolling." Then I would sorta expect him to start being serious. Or maybe it's serious dedication to a gimmick? It's maybe something we can give a few days for but this shouldn't be anywhere near lylo.

One thing that does kinda bother me is

and yet you didn't vote me until I voted you. If you found my posting scummy prior to 58 why not call me out?

it was inside the spoiler of 124 but I know you didn't click on it b/c you didn't care about my responses b/c this is just an agenda driven push back.

Already answered in 154.

And I just feel like

I don't care about OMGUS, I think you're scum. Even though there hasn't been much of anything in this game so far, I feel town!you would've done more by now.

Is a total nonanswer.

[Nero Cain]

still on his RVS vote from pg2,

it may have been a semi-serious RVS vote at the time but it's a full blown scum read now.

And ask him who scum is and it’s gonna be the people suspicious of him and Gamma, which I don’t get.

Who is suspicious of me besides RCE? Didn't know I was scum reading him. Why would I be suspicious of Gamma's attackers?

Is a total nonanswer.

Okay let’s talk about it.

As I said, I couldn’t careless about OMGUS. You can throw it out there all you want it won’t make it true. Lol, people onsite throw out this claim ad nausem. Your vote on me literally had nothing to do with me scumreading you at all. And why in the world would I feel some type of way about an RVS vote especially the second one; you must really think I’m that weakminded.

ok, I am going to spell this out very slowly. OMGUS is null b/c both alignments do it. I mean, I certainly am biased and think that OMGUS is on the scummy side of things but I am aware that town does it as well. You called my 47 and 51 scummy but you never called me out in your 55 or 56. That's what I'm asking about.

[Nero Cain]

also if tako is your #2 "scumread" why leave a bigger wagon for a smaller one with less suspicion?

[Nero Cain]

y can't he just have a gut read? Why does his read have to be explained?

[Nero Cain]

I also kinda felt this, going through nero's posts I saw a considerable lack of TRs.
@Nero who do you think is town?

Everyone that's not VD, Gamma, STD, and Kitty. Though Dann also seems kinda scummy and you would make sense in a VD/Gamma team. That's my d1 solve so far.

[Nero Cain]

Huh, I think you quoted the wrong posts. And your question is weird. You want to know why I didn’t call you out sooner? Because I wasn’t here. Unless I’m missing what you’re actually asking, your question makes no sense.

See, this is how I know you are scum thats bullshitting...you don't even know what was in your "case".

y is this not town Nero?

I know town!Nero And all this right here...

Is that something you actually believe b/c that seems like a silly thought.

scum!nero patronizes scumreads.

im town
i responded faster than anyone else

town!nero doesn't say he's town.

Here you are pushing that 47 and 51 were scummy. You posted twice (55, 56) after these posts so when you say that you weren't here that's not true. So for the 4th time, why did you not call me out in 55 or 56?

also if tako is your #2 "scumread" why leave a bigger wagon for a smaller one with less suspicion?

Lol, that’s like asking if I’d rather eat a burrito or taco (pun intended) If I’m hungry it doesn’t matter.

I don't think this really applies b/c the choice of moving from a 5 player wagon to a 2 player wagon isn't the either/or choice you are presenting it t be. If you still think Tako is scum it makes no sense for you to move to another wagon and if you started to feel like tako might be town b/c nk15 was on the wagon then you should have indicated that instead of giving me a non sequitur response.

If Tako is Vasex then I don't actually wanna vote them off, at least not yet

Why?

Is this a meta read or something?

NK15 is a better vote as their ISO and actions are scummier, not to mention

there is traction there.

there was? At the time that you voted nk15, there were 2 votes on him but still 5 votes on tako. Given that there were less votes on nk15 why do you think there was more traction there than tako?

I want to contribute to a wagon that has a chance to be pushed through and

one that has a good chance of being scum

.

but aren't you calling them both scum? If you voted nk15 b/c you think he has a good chance of being scum, does that mean you don't think tako has a good chance of flipping scum?

What makes you think that nk15 is more likely to go through than tako?

[Nero Cain]

I mean obviously, you are saying that you don't want to vote out a suspected Vasex alt and that nk's actions are scummier and that's valid I suppose but that's the answer we should have been given in 476 but then I guess you or someone from your team recognized that it wasn't great which is why we got the follow up an hour and a half later.

[Nero Cain]

Nero with the heat sheesh.

my girl is a spicy Latina. It rubs off.

[Nero Cain]

I mean, she keeps going to bat for Gamma and VD.

[Nero Cain]

lol

I wasn't reading the thread

is just such a convenient response. It's a hard swallow given that you were actively responding to a joke. I can't "prove" anything and coincidences do happen but I just don't really believe you when you say that you weren't reading the game and that your vote wasn't retaliation.

[Nero Cain]

These are the events and how they transpired sequentially, so again what point are you trying to make about 55/56. I don’t think you are quoting the right posts.

this is such gaslighting. I think my point is plenty clear and you are just going "but I wasn't reading the game, I just happened to start reading the game shortly after you called for more votes on me." as if that trumps everything.

Also look @ how selective 500 is. Yes, his lack of scumhunting was part of my point but there was a chunk of 491 dedicated to his strange use of vote and he just didn't comment at all.

them both being town is my best guess tbh

naw, you aren't even commenting or reading so I doubt you even know what it's about. You are just like the majority of players who idly call a 1v1 TvT b/c A.) Numerically it's more likely B.) You aren't invested C.) you aren't reading

Why is VD town?
Why is my case wrong?
Why do you like his defense to my case?

Also, note that his vote is currently resting on his town read b/c he's waiting around for town to start a new wagon instead of being proactive.

[Nero Cain]

y do you think nk15 is town?

[Nero Cain]

I bet I could v/la for the rest of the game and still be the top poster.

[Nero Cain]

I think this is the first time I've been called LHF lol

Readlist coming soon.

is there a reason this didn't happen?

I bet I could v/la for the rest of the game and still be the top poster.

so i'll be dead soon?

???

y do you think nk15 is town?

For me it's mostly gut.

Was asking VD not you. But while we are on the subject of you and reads...you light called me scum but needed me to post more which is a fence sit, you called NK15 town on gut and said that tako's post was gross and voted him. Do you have any of your own thoughts or anything based on actual events of this game?

responces to nk15

Spoiler:

Why did you shade here, Nero?

like I said before, it was a cheeky comment to a q that I deemed silly.

Nero do you like low power setups?

it seems like most setups are low powered setups. Personally, I think town does need a significant amount of power but otherwise, I don't really care about the setup. My frowny face was about the ridiculousness of there being 3 scum in a 16 player. If this were a thing then I think the mod is screwing over the scum team. Only way a 3 scum makes sense to me is if there was a SK.

A bit evasive, why no push, why is this so toned down?

I was already pushing who I felt like was scum.

And just when I said I thought you were town, you do this.

Why was nk15's post scummy?

Gamma, do you have any solid towns? Except Carcalilly

Italiano

explain both reads please?

[Nero Cain]

You guys need to stop watching real housewives of random city b/c not everything is shade and I don't think the term translates very well. Expressing suspicion on someone is not shade. Shade can only come from scum that's trying to cast doubt on someone.

[Nero Cain]

Why r u town reading gamma? Why should town Gamma scum read you?

[Nero Cain]

Why do you keep asking questions I already answer expecting a different one?

I don't remember you really talking about why Gamma is town. I know you said something about you light town reading him but nothing preventing you from hard town reading him so you moved him up but I don't remember you giving out the reasons for your town read in the first place.

likewise don't remember you talking about why gamma town should scum read you. He's also not scum reading you and you aren't reacting to that.

[Nero Cain]

I was weakly townreading Gamma just because. I had to ask myself if there is anything that is making it weak and there really wasn't so I moved him up to medium townlean. I'm always hesitant to fully townread Gamma but most of the time I just choose to do so and hope I'm right. It feels like that here.

As far as I can tell this is the most you've talked about him and "im town reading him just because" isn't great reasoning so I think my question is plenty valid. Still interested in why he should be scumreading you and why you aren't reacting to his town read of you.

557 feels like a deflect.

[Nero Cain]

Gamma said that you felt "off" but then landed on a town read for ???? reasons. If you felt like he wasn't trying to sort you why do you have him so up high in your town list?

[Nero Cain]

If you felt like he wasn't trying to sort you why do you have him so up high in your town list?

Never said this.

mostly yeah...

but you did say...

Town!Gamma should be scumreading me, if he doesn't that actually makes me more suspicious.

It's not that he should it's that if I feel there isn't an attempt to sort me truthfully or just lazily throws out a townread it pings my radar.

Gamma said you were off and then plopped down a town read on you. Do you feel like he's trying to sort you? If not then why have you not expressed suspicion of him?

[Nero Cain]

These are the events and how they transpired sequentially,

so again what point are you trying to make about 55/56. I don’t think you are quoting the right posts.

you keep quoting this to try to make it look like I'm avoiding your question when A.) I have already responded in 505 and B.) my point was obvious and I think you are only pretending to not get it.

You had said that 47 and 51 were scummy. I questioned why you didn't call me out in your 55, 56. Your explanation is that you weren't reading the game, despite posting, which I find suspicious but eh... I mean, I guess you gotta push back some kinda way, right?

[Nero Cain]

Simple. I wanted to know what it meant, why he brought it up, and if it changed anything.

I knew you were a Rathe alt. Your entrance just seemed very unRathe like a pinged me a little so I deff thought it was worth an early vote.

[Nero Cain]

tbh, I'm surprised that you even skimmed

[Nero Cain]

prove it

[Nero Cain]

If you're town, why are you not trying to work with us?

Well, you are trying to lim me and I'm not going to vote myself and both Gamma and Cara are voting ppl you town read so...but what about you? You aren't working with town so at best you are a hypocrite and at worst projecting scum. I'd be more likely to vote tako than nk15, I think.

Also, while I don't ALWAYS go against the current. I think I'm pretty independent and loud, for better or worse. Seems kinda strange to me that you are sitting there and arguing that you know my meta but I don't think ANYONE on this site would describe me as a sheep.

You're wrong about me and I believe you're wrong about Gamma and Carca.

If I'm scum then I'd know the alignments of you three and I wouldn't be "wrong." Seems like a strange way to talk to a scum read, no?

It really feels like you are just trying to force us to see each other as scum

am I?

You were the one that wrote 554 and 566. My line of questioning was valid and 557 was a deflect.

never played /w nero before but I'm struggling to see scum!italiano being the one to push it, feels too ballsy to me

I really feel like this is horrible reasoning.

Ngl, I saw it more as an attempt to get the game rolling from its semi-beginning state than anything else, which is why I feel alright about it. I'll admit I kinda disregarded the content of it since it seemed to me like pure metagaming which idk anything about.

and I didn't really like this super generous spin she gave you.

What's the difference between you calling RCE my buddy earlier and me saying that Cara would make sense on a scumteam w/ u?

not about you but 414 is also superbad. It most defiantly was a possible fencesit on Gamma and I could totally see a scum Cara just denfending for the town cred.

[Nero Cain]

You need to prove i am not efforting.

This is actually kind of a good point. I think Enchant has snookered you here Nero

I was messing around and wasn't scum reading him. although out of curiousty I did look @ his ISO and it feels like a bunch of troll posts though you could theoretically say 289 was content.

[Nero Cain]

You had said that 47 and 51 were scummy. I questioned why you didn't call me out in your 55, 56. Your explanation is that you weren't reading the game, despite posting, which I find suspicious but eh... I mean, I guess you gotta push back some kinda way, right?

(sigh) You're not avoiding, just not actually answering. Okay let's try this one last time.

In 106 is when I mentioned 47 and 51, along with 58, 70, 79, 85, 86, and 98. You're trying to frame it like I only had 47 and 51 in my case in which it would make sense for you to question this.

55 and 56 is me responding to Carca's dv joke due to a

pagetop

. It's literally the laziest thing to respond to. You not believing that I didn't read the game is a personal problem, I don't have a reason to lie and have been totally honest and transparent. I hadn't fully invested in the game at that point and that's it. You focusing on 47 and 51 is weird given the rest of the posts in my case and my explanation of why it was the way it was.

If you were town you'd be satisfied in closing that hole.

then you need to use better words as I don't think the question that you supposedly were asking is the question that you were conveying to me in thread. There's no way I could possibly know if you are reading the thread or, I generally assume that the people that are posting are current and read up. Theoretically, you had a scum read on me as soon as 47. I think asking why you didn't is a valid question. I already fully responded t your "case" in 124. Once you finally answered me and told me that you weren't reading then that was the end of it FMPOV. You are the one not dropping it and making things an issue. I think your "question" is just weak little pushback.

[Nero Cain]

ok, I get it. No voting VD till I get a gulity. ok


VOTE: gamma

[Nero Cain]

or maybe I am scumreading enchant, I knew I wanted to vote Gamma but I accidentally typed Enchant b4 I fixed it.

[Nero Cain]

^

[Nero Cain]

y am I voting Gamma or why does this town require a guilty b4 we flip obv scum?

[Nero Cain]

at least he's hunting. zing

[Nero Cain]

....................................

[Nero Cain]

i mean I do want to know who your main is

[Nero Cain]

ok i know now.

[Nero Cain]

yes but that doesn't really change anything for me b/c I feel your actions since getting voted were scummy. There's also that weirdness of voting nk15 when the tako wagon was bigger wich was a little strange and you haven't commented on it.

[Nero Cain]

?????? r u meta scum reading VD?

[Nero Cain]

I think nash tater is lurking scum and thier head should end up on the end of a pike

[Nero Cain]

so weak deas

[Nero Cain]

I was weakly townreading Gamma just because.

Is there anything in this game that made you feel like Gamma was town?

[Nero Cain]

what dd you think of Gammas content this game?

[Nero Cain]

tako

[Nero Cain]

Why start an STD wagon, aren't there like 2 votes on Dann? Like you keep saying that you want to be on a wagon that goes through. Well so does scum. Like I guess you could argue that if you were scum you wouldn't say that out loud scum has the same motivation to want a wagon to go through.

[Nero Cain]

over90, RCEnigma, StD, Dannflor

[Nero Cain]

or we could just PL tater

[Nero Cain]

if italiano is town, nero is scum

I don't think this is how it works

[Nero Cain]

doubt it

[Nero Cain]

that's why it usually works good

You have played mafia right? There's going to be ALOT of town on town violence in any given game and your "if you push someone that flips town u must be scum." just isn't going to be that accurate and numerically it makes no sense. It's a fallacy for a reason, guy. If VD town flips or gets inno'd and you want to suspect me, fine but I guess that makes you a noob, right?

enchant, nero, what about elsa/gamma?
and do you agree with my plan (about italiano, enchant, bosco, elsa)?

I'm already voting there so....also Elsa not giving any thoughts about the game is ass.

the cop, if we have one, can do w/e they want.

[Nero Cain]

although I was already planning on VD

[Nero Cain]

wonderful contributions mals

[Nero Cain]

i know u r feeling bad titus but I'd like to see words from u

[Nero Cain]

how did Gamma give u town vibes?

[Nero Cain]

I think Kitty is Russian Oprah

You get a tone read, you get a tone read,

EVERYONE GETS A TONE READ!

[Nero Cain]

but yeah, I know you are busy n all but it's time to move beyond the 2 or 3 tone/gut reads you have. Maybe have tone reads on the other 12 slots in this setup. or maybe some posts or something tangible.

[Nero Cain]

ITT: VD is afraid of pr Nero

[Nero Cain]

What do you guys think of Nero claiming pr only afterthere wasn’t traction on me and claimed he will check me?

What are you thinking here, that I claimed pr so I wouldn't get voted out when there was very very little pressure on me? Like is this an actual thought process?

[Nero Cain]

i wasnt even trying, imagine if i was trying

hey man, I've been trying to let the lurkers post.

[Nero Cain]

here is the reason we are killing Elsa

Isn't doing anything.

[Nero Cain]

rude.

I claimed pr.

VD freaking out about it is scummy.

[Nero Cain]

naw, Elsa dies today.

[Nero Cain]

"hay guiz what dew u think aboot this?"

It's like "what's your point?!" So I have a pr, why does that make me scummy? There was very very little traction on you, to begin with. So I'm not understanding why it was "scummy" to claim afraid you "lost" traction on you that was never there, to begin with.

[Nero Cain]

y not give your own view instead of soliciting others views that you could just latch onto?

[Nero Cain]

I think that's a horrible transcript of the thread.

I mean it's not like there was a big wagon on you and I jumped off, it was that there was NO traction on you and then I said that it's going to take a guilty to get you out and then I consolidated on Gamma.

[Nero Cain]

elsa is gamma, VD is not gamma or Elsa. I was scum reading both VD and Gamma. Never was any traction on VD so I stopped vanity voting and started consolidating on Gamma/Elsa

[Nero Cain]

VD's take is very weird and bad. I'm not sure if it's real.

[Nero Cain]

ItalianoVD (2): Gamma Emerald, Nero Cain

ItalianoVD (1): Nero Cain

ItalianoVD (1): Nero Cain

ItalianoVD (2): Nero Cain, Not Known 15

ItalianoVD (1): RCEnigma

like look at these fucking mighty VD wagons. I had forgotten about all this momentum. I think VD has convinced me that I'm scummy for leaving that.

[Nero Cain]

Also, Elsa claimed b/c he's going to be the days wagon and he knows that a pr claim is the only way that he might be able to get out of it.

@over90

[Nero Cain]

Look, that's how I townhunt.

TBF, 792 was meant more as a joke than a criticism. But I do lowkey feel like "townhunting" is a pretty likely claim to come from scum.

[Nero Cain]

There may be scum in it but maybe not. If not, then it's a pure town chat.

game changing opinion right here!

I mean yeah, good chance there's scum there. I did think about this being Mala's scum game but I think Elsa and Lily are both really scummy but yeah Enchant is prob town.

I would say Elsa>>>cara>>>mala>>>enchant prob

[Nero Cain]

and what about nk15, any updates?

No. But have updates about SirCakez and Nero – both scummy. Cakez more.

y am I scummy?

[Nero Cain]

so you are both NK15 and mq.bosco?

[Nero Cain]

I didn't really think that nk15 was scummy. I iso'd him when he was wagoned and was like "eh...." I also didn't find his big post scummy. He gets ALOT of shit wrong but honestly? he comes across as a bit of a Vi.

I guess you could argue a NK15 and mq.bosco team b/c I'm asking mq.bosco a question and he's answering for her.

[Nero Cain]

I actually contribute when asked. I don't lurk, and I do genuinely care about the gamestate.

you shouldn't need to contribute when asked, you should contribute when you can to help your team and if town ASAP. I feel like you replaced in and then active lurked and didn't really contribute. You are saying that you are slow rolling things and its kinda meh..

I might sheep you if you town flip.

[Nero Cain]

Why would you have a target on your back? It seems like you could have gotten the wagon off of you if you had just started contributing right out of the gate.

you've read this game twice now, your thoughts?

[Nero Cain]

Why in the world is your slot pushing a 3 person scum team. that just seems so whack to me.

[Nero Cain]

also why did titus get dropped?

[Nero Cain]

Why not ask her some questions or something?

[Nero Cain]

ewwww bosco, nash and cakez are just lurkers.

[Nero Cain]

or maybe its not that fair to call cakez a lurkers but bosco and nash certainly are and I'm not the biggest fan of wagons on inactive slots when there are tons of active scummy slots.

[Nero Cain]

y?

[Nero Cain]

the first rule of mafia is to not talk about replacing out. kinda silly but a rule nonetheless.

[Nero Cain]

b/c conviction?

[Nero Cain]

Gather round as I regale you with the tale of one Gamma Emerald.

For 5 straight games, he had a tone scum read on Nero Cain and for 5 straight games, he was wrong as Nero Cain was town each time.

This will be 6. aka tone reads on me are trash






Personally, I don't think I'm a hard read and I think that players that can't read me are usually on the bad side but there are some that will argue that I'm an easy read.

Right off the bat, I think that your Andre example doesn't make sense b/c I wasn't "sorting" him. I thought he was making a joke about a previous game and it had nothing to do with the game.

You are right that I haven't been doling out town reads but I think 487 is a perfectly fine response and is my belief anyway. There's only 4 scum here, so if scum is some combination of you, Titus, Elsa/Cara/Mala, Kitty, STD (maybe Deas instead now) What's the difference between me pushing that I think scum are here and you throwing out mostly unexplained or poorly explained reads lists? I think you are being a bit of a hypocrite. I get the allure of town reading those that are town reading/agreeing with you but you should be wary as it could just be scum sheeping you (kitty and cara) but I guess you could say the same for me (deas and RCE)

Your argument that I'm fence-sitting on Kitty and STD in 264 and 340 respectively is either a blatant lie or a terrible terrible misread. I'm also uninformed so having 100% conviction isn't going to be possible on d1. What makes you so convinced your reads are right?

There is no conviction here that he is town. He downplays over90's associative measured plan (me v him) to pretty much say there is nothing to see here folks.

So you agree with him that when I flip town you should be voted out? I really hope scum shoots me so I can watch you squirm from the dead thread. You should have enough experience by now to know that the majority of all pushes in-game are going to be TvT unless it's a really good town and that 1v1ing all the pushers is going to be a bad strategy and will result in mostly town death. I mean maybe you just really think I'm scum and think I'm trying to get out of a 1v1 but I'm also town and I know that I'm going to flip town and it won't help town. Is it really that unbelievable that I'd be against my own flip? But like I said, I hope scum kills me (or I'm vigged) so we can see your reaction. I assume you will also be against your flip.

Tries his best to discredit another point, but just fails. Read 822 carefully and see if there is a difference from what I said in 820.

Well I mean sure, you said that something that didn't happen happened and I'm correcting you.

I already pointed it out but this soft "claim" was in direct response to people not wanting to eliminate me, despite him saying it was not.

I'm not sure if I ever said that.

arguing that my Kitty push is different than my Petapan push is just subjective and meh

I'm pretty good at townreading players so I trust when I have placed players in my townbin for the most part.

this doesn't have a whole lot to do with the game but it's a bit of a copout to say that you are good at finding town b/c you are going to be mostly right on b/c most games are going to be only 3-5 scum. In the past, I have voted out a scum Chara and a scum Mala for "townhunting"

[Nero Cain]

He answered u about smth he said before, he didn't answered instead of me.
Yes, u're scummy. And Cakez!

yea but 877 was a question for you. So he's just effectively blurting out random things. So let's try this again, why am I scummy?

I see TMI.
VOTE: Nero

Are you dumb or something? We spent early game discussing my belief that this was a 4 scum game as most larges are and I have repeatedly called out Gamma/Elsa for pushing that there are 3 scum. Is it really that odd that I think there are 4 scum here? I mean, its not really "important" as we know that there will be at least 3 so if we vote out 3 and the game is over then I was wrong but if the game is still ongoing then I'm right.

F*** I hate getting rid of useful people day 1 that isn't obvious scum.

Who is this about?

[Nero Cain]

it's just under 3 days till DL. Maybe it's just Mala that's scum in the hood but I still don't like Elsa or Cara.

Part of me doesn't like the idea of voting out an empty nash slot but part of me feels like it might be ok.

[Nero Cain]

cake is delicious but pie is so much better.

[Nero Cain]

So Elsa, what if anything, has happened in the hood?

[Nero Cain]

In fact, the only mention of Dann or me prior to this interaction was StD shading Cakey for his suspicion on Dann floor. That's a very incongruent opinion.

Not really

I could be wrong about cakez

It's not about shading dann it's about tossing shade

That's kinda a garbage position for early in the game particularly with the posts highlighted. Most of those deserved call outs.

bosco and mala might be doable but then I don't really want to do either all that much so good luck getting others to vote

[Nero Cain]

god stop yelling

[Nero Cain]

save the dragons/elsa/nashed/DV

this is the scum team

look at this TMI. clearly, he's scum that knows there are 4 scum here.

[Nero Cain]

Time to vote out the innocent child.

That's why we are voting Elsa.

[Nero Cain]

no?

[Nero Cain]

I mean posting 148 and that being your sole catchup after being away for 138 posts was kinda ???

You could make the argument that 180 and not wanting to talk about setup "spec" is scum trying to not look like informed scum.

I pointed out how in 469 she was being useless with her vote and I think that comes from scum a fair amount of time.

I just kinda associate lurk Mala as scum Mala but I guess everyone lurks as scum.

but then it feels like she was a CW to Kitty and the wagon was somewhat speedy which makes me think scum hopped on.

KittyTacky (3): mq.bosco, DeasVail, Not Known 15

takotsubo syndrome (6): SirCakez, ItalianoVD, Gamma Emerald, KittyTacky, Not Known 15, Save The Dragons

My big worry here is that I was being constrained and forcing myself to town read Mala just b/c a bunch of others voted there b4 me and I was going against the grain.

[Nero Cain]

I was also liking cakez earlier and felt like he was prob town b/c scum were sheeping him. I got a little worried when he was being lurky but I'll stick with my gut for now.

[Nero Cain]

she was invoking jean grey. know ur x-mem you Disney heathen

[Nero Cain]

i totally missed it though

[Nero Cain]

I think they had a thing or maybe he was just lusting after her. So many soft reboots and time travel...its hard to keep track of the x-men stuff

[Nero Cain]

Also is Nero really voting himself?

and what if I was?

[Nero Cain]

also just superhuman overload in general. There are like 5467898745523356789098874623456789857562434567898765432 Marvel movies + tv shows, even though x-men isn't marvel. I thought Disney bought them but many sony still owns the rights, not sure.

[Nero Cain]

the boys was v v good.

[Nero Cain]

but Eric Kripke is just solid in general so no surprise there

[Nero Cain]

could be bussing but yeah it is looking like a titus/elsa/kitty and one of the VD's

[Nero Cain]

ok i might want to kill that afterall

[Nero Cain]

Whatever I don’t want Elsa to live another day but apparently others see differently.

ummm..............

[Nero Cain]

like bosco was only leading elsa by one vote. Your vote doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me.

[Nero Cain]

this game is a disaster.

[Nero Cain]

y r u scared to vote a claimed neighbor when it's just very very likely that there's scum in it?

[Nero Cain]

But I thought we only had 2 days left so I voted the other one with votes.

yeah, but you didn't vote after Titus to make Bodco the leading wagon. Survivalism always seems scummy to me but I guess you could argue that it's null. Its just odd to me that you didn't vote there earlier and waited until you could make it the lead wagon.

prodding nashedpotato

Hi you're looking kinda cute today schadd

ok i might want to kill that afterall

And you called me crazy for putting them on the scumteam.

eh...

At the time they were just an inactive slot and calling inactive slots is something real EZ to do. I mean just boiling the composition of the scum team down to aggressive, supportive and lurker was ??? like I don't think it works that way.

You could maybe argue that they were being

LAMIST

early game and they are just prod dodge scum.

[Nero Cain]

what the absolute fuck?????

[Nero Cain]

It's a fairly common setup to put scum in neighborhoods and in my last game there was one scum in a 4 person hood so it's likely that there is also 1 scum in a 4 person hood in this game. Also, Elsa, Mala, and Cara are just scummy.

[Nero Cain]

mq.bosco (5): NashedPotato, over90, KittyTacky, Titus, Elsa Jay
Elsa Jay (4): Malakittens, mq.bosco, SirCakez, Nero Cain

Whatever I don’t want Elsa to live another day but apparently others see differently.

mq.bosco (4): NashedPotato, KittyTacky, Titus, Elsa Jay
Elsa Jay (4): Malakittens, mq.bosco, SirCakez, Nero Cain

Okay so why don't we just kill Elsa it seems like no one even really wants to lim Bosco

I don't think either of these statements are true.

[Nero Cain]

I mean theoretically, there are 3 town in the hood so I guess you could argue that the correct play is to invest with the hood and let the NA's sort it out so we don't risk elimination confirmed town.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: titus

[Nero Cain]

you aren't in his hood....

[Nero Cain]

do you have any links to any private topics?

[Nero Cain]

with ANYONE

[Nero Cain]

Do you not have neighborhoods on the forum you play?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighbor

[Nero Cain]

There's only 4 scum here

I see TMI.
VOTE: Nero

Why is everybody ignoring this?

Why are you being so stupid about it?

[Nero Cain]

Cakez was also pushing that there was 4 scum and I'd argue that Elsa/Gamma pushing 3 is way more TMI than assuming 4 like is normal. + I was also pushing that there were 4 scum long before my TMI "slip" so just conveniently ignore that?

[Nero Cain]

nk, why am I TMIing but not cakez?

[Nero Cain]

4 in a 16 yeah

like here im already pushing that I assumed 4 in a 16. Why then, is it such an oddity that I'd be pushing that there are 4 scum in 1090? Why did you not call my 62 out as TMI?

[Nero Cain]

save the dragons/elsa/nashed/DV

this is the scum team
if there's five it can be Carca or Enchant or someone who isn't doing anything

he's pushing that its 4 or 5. 5 LMAO

[Nero Cain]

nero, lets find another target

what do you think of Titus?

There is, at most, 1 scum between Elsa, Enchant, Mala and Cara.

[Nero Cain]

tone is how somebody sounds and there are crazy people that think they can read tone on the internet. When someone says "tone off" they meant "your/their ton is off" but ya know, Americans can barely speak/type English.

[Nero Cain]

I mean, you were asking for an explanation...

[Nero Cain]

yes

[Nero Cain]

what does your full reads list look like?