Open 97 - Lovers Mafia (Over in 3 days!) before 703

[Lord Gurgi]

vote: Guardian

for lurking.

Vote: Guardian

NAL.

[Lord Gurgi]

Vote: Adel

, only the cool players vote Adel

[Lord Gurgi]

Scum Fight!

y don't juz lynch Guardian now, plz?

Stop saying what I'm thinking before I think it.

[Lord Gurgi]

JDodge is town. This is based on meta. It will additionally be based upon his response to this statement. Let's see where it goes.

[Lord Gurgi]

JDodge

is

may be (~65%) town. This is based on meta. It will additionally be based upon his response to this statement. Let's see where it goes.

I am almost completely apathetic about this statement. A little curious as to why you think I'm town, yet apathetic.

Revised.

Batt, that was a very good post to say absolutely nothing.

In other news, why is Guardian still breathing?

[Lord Gurgi]

JDodge is town. This is based on meta. It will

additionally be based upon his response to this statement.

Let's see where it goes.

Doesn't stating the above italic sentence negates your ability to formulate a hypothesis towards Jdodge's guilt based on the idea that Jdodge is now aware that you are looking for a certain reaction from him?

No. He doesn't grasp his own meta.

[Lord Gurgi]

In other news, why is Guardian still breathing?

Because its page 2?

I've done it on page one.

[Lord Gurgi]

In other news, why is Guardian still breathing?

Because its page 2?

I've done it on page one.

Don't sig this.

[Lord Gurgi]

JDodge

is

may be (~65%) town. This is based on meta. It will additionally be based upon his response to this statement. Let's see where it goes.

I am almost completely apathetic about this statement. A little curious as to why you think I'm town, yet apathetic.

Revised.

Batt, that was a very good post to say absolutely nothing.

In other news, why is Guardian still breathing?

Because people are complete pussies.

Someone do it. Now, please, I want to end this on page two.

[Lord Gurgi]

JDodge

is

may be (~65%) town. This is based on meta. It will additionally be based upon his response to this statement. Let's see where it goes.

I am almost completely apathetic about this statement. A little curious as to why you think I'm town, yet apathetic.

Revised.

Batt, that was a very good post to say absolutely nothing.

In other news, why is Guardian still breathing?

What I meant was that you basically said, "I think Jdodge is town because of his meta, unless he reacts scummy when I post this." I guess for my post to actually say something like your meaningful "why is Guardian still breathing? post," I should add in: I think you posted the meta/plus disclaimer post so as to appear to side with JDodge, but if he does something scummy you can fall back on and still say you had doubts because of his ambigous response to that post.

No. I have a reliable meta on him. He didn't quite obey it, hence the drop to may be.

Also, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee hammer on page two.

[Lord Gurgi]

7. When you die, you may make a "bah!" post, but nothing game-related.

I expected better, Guardian.

[Lord Gurgi]

7. When you die, you may make a "bah!" post, but nothing game-related.

I expected better, Guardian.

Is he dead yet? No. Why do you want someone who will apparently come up town to shut up?

Sorry, I assumed that the rules prohibited that. I didn't want to violate the rules, if you feel like lynching me for that, there's no hope left for the game.

[Lord Gurgi]

7. When you die, you may make a "bah!" post, but nothing game-related.

I expected better, Guardian.

Is he dead yet? No. Why do you want someone who will apparently come up town to shut up?

Sorry, I assumed that the rules prohibited that. I didn't want to violate the rules, if you feel like lynching me for that, there's no hope left for the game.

Why so defensive, Flimsy?

Because you lodged a serious accusation at me, why so flippant?

[Lord Gurgi]

if you have any questions for me or comments on my analysis of the game please present it now. I feel about 85% confident in it.

Why is JDodge above me?

[Lord Gurgi]

Can you give us all some questions to answer, that should shed some light on alignment?

[Lord Gurgi]

When did I ever accuse you?

I asked you why you wanted someone who will come up town to shut up. I never said anything accusatory.

Welcome to mafia, it is a serious accusation to say I wanted to cut off discussion. I wanted to follow the rules, because I thought he had to stop talking.

[Lord Gurgi]

if you have any questions for me or comments on my analysis of the game please present it now. I feel about 85% confident in it.

I think lynching Sens is better than lynching Adel thanks to Adel's tendency towards gambitting, meaning that any tells on her are less solid.

That sounds like a good excuse to waive off suspicion of Adel.

[Lord Gurgi]

wait -- also -- SF, what reason did you have to vote me, if any?

2 people were calling for a hammer so I went back and looked at your play thus far. I didn't like you trying to make someone unlynchable, but I thought maybe it was Adel/JDodge scumpair. When Gurgi also called for a hammer, I knew that at least one of them was Town, so I hammered.

Huh?

[Lord Gurgi]

When did I ever accuse you?

I asked you why you wanted someone who will come up town to shut up. I never said anything accusatory.

Welcome to mafia, it is a serious accusation to say I wanted to cut off discussion. I wanted to follow the rules, because I thought he had to stop talking.

No. It is not. It is curiosity. You define it as an accusation because:

A. You were expecting something accusatory from me

B. It nicely takes all discussion involving you off of the "why is JD town to you" thing which you decided to waffle on.

I followed that through, I ignored your 'curiosity' because I think it's a load of garbage. Also, JDodge, you're an accusatory person, I read your posts with your aggressive personality in mind.

[Lord Gurgi]

if you have any questions for me or comments on my analysis of the game please present it now. I feel about 85% confident in it.

I think lynching Sens is better than lynching Adel thanks to Adel's tendency towards gambitting, meaning that any tells on her are less solid.

That sounds like a good excuse to waive off suspicion of Adel.

One scum lynch is worth too. It's playing to confidence instead of playing to likelihood.

Guardian: The issue I have with your Adel theory is that it is based on her information gathering-oriented playstyle. Are you arguing that your lynch will

not

gain us more information than discussing things ad nauseum?

Didn't answer my question, try again.

[Lord Gurgi]

wait -- also -- SF, what reason did you have to vote me, if any?

2 people were calling for a hammer so I went back and looked at your play thus far. I didn't like you trying to make someone unlynchable, but I thought maybe it was Adel/JDodge scumpair. When Gurgi also called for a hammer, I knew that at least one of them was Town, so I hammered

so one or two townies and one or two scum wanted me hammered... ergo you hammered?

you say you looked at my play -- what if anything was suspicious about it?

I found you suspicious, but not suspicious enough to hammer with potentially only the Scum calling for a lynch. When Gurgi chimed in, I knew there was at least one Town person comfortable with your lynch, so I hammered.

As I said, I really didn't like the whole MOS thing.

There were 3 people voting him. Of course there was at least one town person comfortable with the lynch.

Don't get me wrong, the lynch was just what this game needed to get kick-started - but your pretense for hammering is bullshit.

This is my general opinion, but with less profanity. Discarding the fear of WIFOM, I don't think he would do this as scum. Unless he does gambit as much as he says he does. Going to have to think about this.

[Lord Gurgi]

Where is Adel, I want more from her. I've seen the town eat eachother alive before, and we have two people that aren't saying anything.

[Lord Gurgi]

sensfan -- it wud have been nice to say you were suspicious of me, and why, and let me respond to it -- before hammering.

not doing so is uberscumzie

I have a problem with this, everyone excluding SensFan and Batt were calling hard for your lynch. Explain why JDodge and myself are not scummy for doing so.

[Lord Gurgi]

sensfan -- it wud have been nice to say you were suspicious of me, and why, and let me respond to it -- before hammering.

not doing so is uberscumzie

Fair enough, though I think everyone on the wagon is just as accountable for the fact you were lynched as I was, since they were all calling for a lynch.

Hello tomorrow's lynch.

Hey unilateral decision and planning, now you're tilting scum, good job.

[Lord Gurgi]

You're scummy for hammering someone on a case you didn't believe in on the basis of pandering to the majority.

Now see, that's complete bullshit. Do I need to point out the (now 4) times I've said I found him scummy?

More to the point, stop avoiding the question. Why am I scummy for doing something you would have done, but waiting to make sure at least 1 other Town person agrees?

I've answered your question multiple times. You only showed suspicion after the fact, AND only showed enough suspicion to hammer once

you precieved that it was safe to do so, because a majority makeup of the town tomorrow agreed with you.

.

Answer the question.

[Lord Gurgi]

I HAVE ANSWERED THE GODDAMN FUCKING QUESTION AT LEAST 5 FUCKING TIMES BY NOW. LEARN HOW TO READ OR CEASE TO PLAY THE GAME. THANKS.

No. You have made a statement that is a sad attempt to weasel out of self-incrimination.

[Lord Gurgi]

JDodge, explain why what you are arguing is not a situation of "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't."

[Lord Gurgi]

JDodge, explain why what you are arguing is not a situation of "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't."

If he had just hammered (with an actual reason), then he could deliver a logical explanation and thus not come under suspicion. There is no logical reason beyond self-preservation to wait until he saw people wanted a hammer and then do so.

What would your reasons to hammer be?

[Lord Gurgi]

JDodge, explain why what you are arguing is not a situation of "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't."

If he had just hammered (with an actual reason), then he could deliver a logical explanation and thus not come under suspicion. There is no logical reason beyond self-preservation to wait until he saw people wanted a hammer and then do so.

What would your reasons to hammer be?

I saw the clear percieved link between Guardian and Batt. I was certain from Guardian's reaction he was scum. That would've been my reason. Again, human, fallible, wrong, mistakes, etc.

Excusing yourself from a lynch, etc.

[Lord Gurgi]

YES BECAUSE I AM NEVER WRONG

Get over your selective perception, Flimsy.

This would appear to be the basis of your mafia play.

[Lord Gurgi]

Vote =/= call for the hammer; you yourself said that page 1 votes were pretty much meaningless.

Right. But you are saying that I'm Scum for hammering only with support of 50%+ of the Town. Surely that is the case for any hammer...

You're not at all paying attention to what I am saying.

YOU YOURSELF have said, multiple times, that you waited on the hammer until you had (and I paraphrase a bit here) "at least 1 town" calling for it. Hence, you waited for

3 people

to call for the hammer.

This allows you to weasel yourself out of suspicion because

they asked for it

. Sans this confirmation, people would have basis to say "but we were just pressuring him, why the hell did you hammer on page 2", which would thus be bad for you. You saw the opportunity to hammer a townsperson with minimal suspicion being inflicted upon you, and you took it.

I would never hammer anyone without 50% of the Town supporting it.

Then again, if by some obscene stretch of the imagination you

are

town, you are henceforth urged to grow a pair.

I have been Town before, you realize? And why should anyone end the day without a majority agreeing for a lynch? Why should my opinion override that of the majority?

If you have a good reason to hammer, then hammer already; you can justify it later. You are human. You are fallible. You are likely to be wrong. That should not stop you in the least.

However, when you try to remove self-accountability, that in and of itself is suspicious.

Why should the person who happens to not be voting someone be more accountable than the 3 people who are calling for a hammer, but happen to be voting that person?

You're ignoring my point and arguing the basis surrounding the point.

I am not saying that I am unaccountable. I am not saying that any of us who called for the hammer are any less accountable than you are. I am saying that your waiting until you had that safety net of 3 other people having as much accountability as you is suspicious.

I don't hammer if a majority don't support it, extenuating circumstances aside. Why should my opinion be more important than the majority's?

I'm seeing a pattern of a question not being answered.

[Lord Gurgi]

YES BECAUSE I AM NEVER WRONG

Get over your selective perception, Flimsy.

This would appear to be the basis of your mafia play.

My, your little psyche is full of cognitive biases, isn't it?

Ad hominem, I can't tell if that's a step up or a step down from the norm.

[Lord Gurgi]

Batt disappeared part way through Guardian's post-mortem, I smell scumlurk. Adel should also come back, but the circumstances (appear) to be different.

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm seeing a pattern of me answering Sens's question, him making it come back to same question again, and you hopping in to defend your scumbuddy because mean ol' JD is bullying him again like he always bullies people

No. That last one was the closest to a real answer, before you didn't even include the term majority, or similar words. You were answering the question you wanted to answer, not what he asked.

[Lord Gurgi]

Batt disappeared part way through Guardian's post-mortem, I smell scumlurk. Adel should also come back, but the circumstances (appear) to be different.

Because nobody in this game has a life.

Batt disappeared at the same time that Guardian was hammered, that stretches credulity.

[Lord Gurgi]

Please kill the quote pyramid.

[Lord Gurgi]

In other news: Hello fellow Gimboxm's.

[Lord Gurgi]

LG:

Why am I lurkerscum for posting once at the beginning of twilight and stop posting, IIRC, for 2 hours at the time of the comment? Why is Adel not lurkerscum for not posting at all?

Because you disappeared

as

we got an opportunity to talk with confirmed town, and it was odd that you left at the same time. Coincidence really is a stretch. Whereas Adel had disappeared sometime earlier.

Sens is the most likely lynch target today, yet you defend him. Why would you defend Sen by attacking JDodge's reasoning? Is it because you are trying to protect your scumbuddy?

This is horrible reasoning. Purely because he is the most likely lynch does not mean he is scum. I'd like to see some arguments from you, rather than sitting back as you are. JDodge's reasoning

always

needs to be attacked because he diverts to semantics and ad hominem if someone doesn't control him. Points for a loaded question, though.

[Lord Gurgi]

Adel: Once you're done with this line of questioning, can you give us some information? I'm pretty bad at meta-reads based on reading, and only really trust what I get from playing with them. That said, I'd like to know what you're thinking.

[Lord Gurgi]

Not to be rude, but I really don't have the time to be doing this for multiple hours, in addition, do you not think that his meta could have changed over a long period of play? I know mine has changed dramatically since October.

[Lord Gurgi]

How about now, Batt, you've been posting occasionally, and have not given anything. This new return is not helpful, either. In addition, you're couching questions to JDodge with the answers pre-baked in.

[Lord Gurgi]

Sens is the most likely lynch target today, yet you defend him. Why would you defend Sen by attacking JDodge's reasoning? Is it because you are trying to protect your scumbuddy?

This is horrible reasoning. Purely because he is the most likely lynch does not mean he is scum. I'd like to see some arguments from you, rather than sitting back as you are. JDodge's reasoning

always

needs to be attacked because he diverts to semantics and ad hominem if someone doesn't control him. Points for a loaded question, though.

AGAIN:

# of forum games you have played with me in them: 0
# of IRC games: countless

IRC =/= forums.

Thanks for playing, you get a lifetime supply of Rice-a-Roni.

Not to be rude, but I really don't have the time to be doing this for multiple hours, in addition, do you not think that his meta could have changed over a long period of play? I know mine has changed dramatically since October.

See: First quote.

HYPOCRITE

Meta is not the same as personality. You're getting towards proving me right, though.

Not to be rude, but I really don't have the time to be doing this for multiple hours, in addition, do you not think that his meta could have changed over a long period of play? I know mine has changed dramatically since October.

That is the point behind sorting his games into town windows and scum windows. That controls for general shifts in playstyle against time.

If you don't have time to spend several hours building player specific metas, I don't think you have a chance of meeting your potential as a forum mafia player. This is a formatt that rewards hard work and diligence.

Finally, someone else who understands the game as a whole.

Easy to say, really. I'm not seeing in depth meta analysis from you.

JDodge: Why would you hammer Guardian on page 2? His MOS, IMO, was just him trying to get out of the random stage by discussing theory and get reactions (unfortunately the reaction was to lynch him). Don't you think it would have been best if he wasn't hammered so as to get as much info towards the next lynch on the off chance that he wasn't scum?

Because I feel Guardian would be a detriment to the town regardless of alignment. Because I thought Guardian was likely scum. Because I thought the info we would get out of it would be amazing (and it is!).

This is the same that Sens says, sans waiting for the majority, and with the addition of policy lynch.

How about now, Batt, you've been posting occasionally, and have not given anything. This new return is not helpful, either. In addition, you're couching questions to JDodge with the answers pre-baked in.

What exactly are you smoking and where can I get some?

Try to be mature, please.

[Lord Gurgi]

I'll give a crack at this meta strategy that seems so popular, Batt, can I get a list of all games you have played? Seperated by alignment and such.

[Lord Gurgi]

Easy to say, really. I'm not seeing in depth meta analysis from you.

Personal policy - I do not release my meta information on players.

I'm going to ignore the rest of your points as you clearly have:

A. No clue what I'm talking about

B. No clue what you're talking about.

There you go. Logic is gone, ad hominem has resumed. Can I get some confirmation from other people that he's just attacking me at this point?

[Lord Gurgi]

This seems like a discussion for MD, not a game thread, if you don't mind my saying. Yes, the general skill level is dropping, yes, cutting statements for good effect does swing people, yes, you should have come back, people need a model.

[Lord Gurgi]

Just checking in. I'm sad to see this game has resorted to a flame-fest.

[Lord Gurgi]

A page two hammer happened. You were on that wagon. And now you have a problem with it? I have always said that if you aren't ready for a wagon to go to lynch, get the freak off it. Why are are you not subject to this?

[Lord Gurgi]

A page two hammer happened. You were on that wagon. You were pushing for the lynch, serious or not. And now you have a problem with it? I have always said that if you aren't ready for a wagon to go to lynch, get the freak off it. Why are are you not subject to this?

Fixed. A bit angry, and a bit rushed.

[Lord Gurgi]

For example, if you had declared (as town) that you never random vote, and you never have random voted as town, it would pretty damning if you've random voted in 3 or 4 games as scum since you random voted in this game. It wouldn't be lynch-worth evidence in isolation, but you did hammer without good reason on page 2 in this six player game.

He did declare, as town, that he never random votes.

Making sure this isn't missed in the page break. This has been taken way the fuck out of context. Furthermore, I can show a ton of examples of where I have "random" voted, and I can only assume Adel, who has apparently read every post I have made 4+ times, has seen these examples I speak of.

Evidence. Now.

[Lord Gurgi]

Hey Adel. Mini 643, Time Capsule Mafia. My most recently-completed game as Town.

I RANDOM-VOTED!

Do I need to dig up more examples?

At the risk of her just making a mistake, I'd like some more evidence. I don't buy two or three mistakes. Adel, response please.

[Lord Gurgi]

Hey Adel. Mini 643, Time Capsule Mafia. My most recently-completed game as Town.

I RANDOM-VOTED!

Do I need to dig up more examples?

Yes, you totally do. I didn't bother to check that one, since it was the last one, and I was out of patience... besides my case against you really depends upon:
1. you hammering on page 2
2. you not being a total idiot

Why did you not bother to check the above one?

[Lord Gurgi]

Mini 604, ooba Mafia. I "random"-voted. I was Town.

Note that I never actually vote randomly, I vote arbitrarily; which is exactly the misrep Adel is trying to use on me.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8464 link to that game.

...That is semantics, and bad semantics, at that.

[Lord Gurgi]

As far as getting a meta read, here is one approach:
1. Open up all of his games in tabs, & place games as scum in one window, and games as town in another window. Try to actually sort them correctly.

2. Skim the first three or four pages of each game. Do it again. Take a break for a few hours, and skim them all again.

3. Sort each game to only display all posts by SensFan. Skim the first 20 or so posts from each of those games. Do it again. Take a break for a few hours and do it again.

4. Re-read the first few pages of this game.
5. Sort all of the posts by SensFan in this game.

[Lord Gurgi]

As far as getting a meta read, here is

one

approach:
1. Open up all of his games in tabs, & place games as scum in one window, and games as town in another window. Try to actually sort them correctly.
2. Skim the first three or four pages of each game. Do it again. Take a break for a few hours, and skim them all again.
3. Sort each game to only display all posts by SensFan. Skim the first 20 or so posts from each of those games. Do it again. Take a break for a few hours and do it again.
4. Re-read the first few pages of this game.
5. Sort all of the posts by SensFan in this game.

I've taken a two month break, and I never use a methodology consistently.

Why tell me to do something you don't use yourself?

[Lord Gurgi]

Just so that it isn't lost by the page break -- both SensFan and I are at one vote. With two living scum players, one additional vote by a townie on a townie yields a scum victory.

Notice that when I voted for SensFan he simply placed a vote on me in exchange.

Wouldn't a genuine townie consider that perhaps I was suffering from townie-tunnel vision and do something to encourage me to unvote, rather than just antagonizing me?

This requires the townie in question to believe that you are in fact, a townie.

[Lord Gurgi]

A page two hammer happened. You were on that wagon. You were pushing for the lynch, serious or not. And now you have a problem with it? I have always said that if you aren't ready for a wagon to go to lynch, get the freak off it. Why are are you not subject to this?

Fixed. A bit angry, and a bit rushed.

I covered this.

[Lord Gurgi]

With all this horrible logic flying around, the blatant backtracking, and the massive amounts of ad hominem that are spewing from JDodge and Adel, this decision has been made easy for me. If you two are allowed to win for simply badmouthing, then I too, give up hope for this game. I am appalled at the play of the so-called "pros". This is sub-par by any standards. This, in addition to their general play, self-absolution, and false arguments, it is clear to me.

Vote: Adel

.

[Lord Gurgi]

Note that whenever asked to back up his claims, Sens goes off on a tangent.

Really? Because I very clearly gave 2 examples off me "random" voting as Town, and its Adel that has since backed up.

And where the fuck are the examples of "OH I ALWAYS ASK BEFORE I HAMMER A DUR DE HUR DE HUR" that I asked for ages ago?

With all this horrible logic flying around, the blatant backtracking, and the massive amounts of ad hominem that are spewing from JDodge and Adel, this decision has been made easy for me. If you two are allowed to win for simply badmouthing, then I too, give up hope for this game. I am appalled at the play of the so-called "pros". This is sub-par by any standards. This, in addition to their general play, self-absolution, and false arguments, it is clear to me.

You are a complete and utter retard when it comes to mafia. Read some basic texts on logic and fucking reasoning and then get back to me.

Explain to me, how anything that you just said is not ad hominem.

[Lord Gurgi]

I made a statement. You respond by insulting my intelligence and calling me a retard. That ignores my statement, and is toward my personality and characteristics.

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.

[Lord Gurgi]

I made a statement. You respond by insulting my intelligence and calling me a retard. That ignores my statement, and is toward my personality and characteristics.

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.

Read the actual response instead of the vitriol that it is buried in and you'll see I've answered every question that's been asked of me. You refuse to read them because you're so UPSET that someone would DARE to insult YOU of all people.

You did not explain in the least how what you said was not ad hominem, you said I was merely spouting buzzwords instead, explain, please.

[Lord Gurgi]

Hey there Sens! Explain how what you're doing now is any different from what Adel did then.

So, now you have absolutely no reason not to be voting Adel. Except, if you prefer lynching someone who hammered the same wagon you said you would, over someone who attempted to absolve them self of all connection to it.

[Lord Gurgi]

I made a statement. You respond by insulting my intelligence and calling me a retard. That ignores my statement, and is toward my personality and characteristics.

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.

Read the actual response instead of the vitriol that it is buried in and you'll see I've answered every question that's been asked of me. You refuse to read them because you're so UPSET that someone would DARE to insult YOU of all people.

You did not explain in the least how what you said was not ad hominem, you said I was merely spouting buzzwords instead, explain, please.

I gave you clear reasons as to why it was not ad hominem, in that it was an argument inlaid into a bed of insults. Learn what ad hominem means, THEN get back to me.

I quoted the definition from the page you linked, then explicitly said how that was what you did. I'm done with this line of argument.

[Lord Gurgi]

Batt, Sens and I are on Adel. Adel and JDodge are on Sens. DON'T HAMMER ANYONE YET. THINK IT THROUGH PLEASE.

[Lord Gurgi]

I call this as Battousai-Guardian. Y'all can go home now.

Huh?

[Lord Gurgi]

People JDodge has named as scum: Guardian, Battousai, SensFan, Lord Gurgi
People JDodge has not named as scum: JDodge, Adel

Possible Scumteams: Sens/Gurgi, JDodge/Adel

[Lord Gurgi]

LG: Called JDodge town, based on meta (and reaction to this claim). Then after my post says JDodge is 65% town.

Please explain why you thought JDodge was town at that time, why you switched to 65%, and what kind of reaction would have made him look scum, town.

In previous games with him (IRC not Forum, if that makes a difference to you, Batt) when I have just decided to say JDodge is town, as scum will say something along the lines of "What's your reasoning?", while town he will say something along the lines of "Obviously, now we're going to lynch XXXX he's scum". The indifference he gave seemed non-committal and far too careful a stance for him to take as town, but not strictly the scummy response, thus he became more scummy, but not scum.

[Lord Gurgi]

With all this horrible logic flying around, the blatant backtracking, and the massive amounts of ad hominem that are spewing from JDodge and Adel, this decision has been made easy for me. If you two are allowed to win for simply badmouthing, then I too, give up hope for this game. I am appalled at the play of the so-called "pros". This is sub-par by any standards. This, in addition to their general play, self-absolution, and false arguments, it is clear to me.

Vote: Adel

.

I still stand by this post. The level of insult while the game was going on was just unacceptable.

[Lord Gurgi]

I stand by my grow a thicker skin comment.

It is the principle of the thing, JDodge. What example does this set for newbies, why do you think the "standard of play has fallen"? Could it be because your own has? Or do you only care about the end result?

[Lord Gurgi]

I totally want to read LG and SensFan's daytalking thread. Please post a link to it guys.

BTW, SensFan, I recognize that I was being a bit of a jerk towards you, and I apologize if you took offense, but I did feel a little aggravated that you hammered so early on page 2. I was really looking forward to playing a close game, and it seemed to me that you were just throwing away your chances of winning.
Why did you think you could get away with it?

Neither of us expected 2-3 hours of post-death talk. We talked in AIM. If Sens wants me to put it up, I'll look through my logs, otherwise, I'm not putting it up.

[Lord Gurgi]

I totally want to read LG and SensFan's daytalking thread. Please post a link to it guys.

BTW, SensFan, I recognize that I was being a bit of a jerk towards you, and I apologize if you took offense, but I did feel a little aggravated that you hammered so early on page 2. I was really looking forward to playing a close game, and it seemed to me that you were just throwing away your chances of winning.
Why did you think you could get away with it?

Neither of us expected 2-3 hours of post-death talk. We talked in AIM. If Sens wants me to put it up, I'll look through my logs, otherwise, I'm not putting it up.

To add: I doubt if you want to read it, we were both extremely angry with the play that was going on, and frankly, I never expected it in this game. I doubt that there is anyway to dredge this game from the muck, and take it for anything but. I am disappointed.

[Lord Gurgi]

It's rather unforgiving to the scum, one mistake is game over, but the town can screw up once without penalty.

[Lord Gurgi]

I would play again. I hope we could play more civilly. That said, I hope it would run quickly, but perhaps not so quickly.

[Lord Gurgi]

Well I put the game on the Open Queue list. I think Sens maybe right about this. I have Jdodge, Lord Gurgi and SensFan confirmed to play again. Right now I don't have this as a sign up just a note for myself on the queue starting page.

If someone is not interested, I vote Shanba/Yos/Thesp/Glork to replace

[Lord Gurgi]

PJ?

He's retired, is he not?

[Lord Gurgi]

So's Glork...

Glork is watching.

[Lord Gurgi]

Shanba said no, so I'm going to back out as well.

That's me gone as well, then. Sorry this didn't work. I blame Glork.