Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[Malakittens]

@Meuh - who are your strong town reads atm? It might be in your iso already but I'm about to head out for an hour or so

Bell (regardless of confirmation)
Lukewarm
Kovu
R&R
Val

Those 5 are the ones I trust the most.
Which kinda sucks because Bell's been busy, R&R's disappeared, I don't trust Kovu's reads, Val's wrong about me and Luke's almost out of posts

Oh Fire also exists

EXCUSE ME
Him too

[VP Baltar]

Idk on that. There are weird dynamics at play though. You came out today shit pushing me, then ignored me when I moved elsewhere, and now it is a shit push again now that you're catching votes.

I probably need to analyze how you are voting/playing around each other, but I'm fairly confident there is one scum minimum between you two.

Pedit- @meuh

[Meuh]

Idk on that. There are weird dynamics at play though. You came out today shit pushing me, then ignored me when I moved elsewhere, and now it is a shit push again now that you're catching votes.

I probably need to analyze how you are voting/playing around each other, but I'm fairly confident there is one scum minimum between you two.

Pedit- @meuh

In what way does scum!me benefit from shit pushing town!you, like at all. In what world does it gain momentum, in what world does it make me look better, in what world is it an actual thing I would decide to do there, if not genuine. If I was trying to push someone to save myself, why not yknow, the other leading wagon? ...instead of the person that other leading wagon is voting for.
My thoughts happen when they do. I hated your opening today, then got decent vibes from you. As of late, your interactions with Dwlee have been terrible and despite you acting like you're giving them a real chance, you keep engaging with them in bad faith.

[VP Baltar]

In what way does scum!me benefit from shit pushing town!you, like at all. In what world does it gain momentum, in what world does it make me look better, in what world is it an actual thing I would decide to do there, if not genuine. If I was trying to push someone to save myself, why not yknow, the other leading wagon? ...instead of the person that other leading wagon is voting for.
My thoughts happen when they do. I hated your opening today, then got decent vibes from you. As of late, your interactions with Dwlee have been terrible and despite you acting like you're giving them a real chance, you keep engaging with them in bad faith.

I think you thought I could be an easy push and you didn't know what you were getting into.

As far as dwlee, curious why you think I'm bad farthing them when they have used multiple attacks this game on multiple people that are just straight up untrue. Like, that's been proven. What I said about them not being around yesterday when attention turned is accurate. Fully possible dwlee was busy, but the difference is that what I said is 100% accurate, and things dwlee has pushed are 100% not accurate. So who is really bad farthing who here?

[Meuh]

In what way does scum!me benefit from shit pushing town!you, like at all. In what world does it gain momentum, in what world does it make me look better, in what world is it an actual thing I would decide to do there, if not genuine. If I was trying to push someone to save myself, why not yknow, the other leading wagon? ...instead of the person that other leading wagon is voting for.
My thoughts happen when they do. I hated your opening today, then got decent vibes from you. As of late, your interactions with Dwlee have been terrible and despite you acting like you're giving them a real chance, you keep engaging with them in bad faith.

I think you thought I could be an easy push and you didn't know what you were getting into.

As far as dwlee, curious why you think I'm bad farthing them when they have used multiple attacks this game on multiple people that are just straight up untrue. Like, that's been proven. What I said about them not being around yesterday when attention turned is accurate. Fully possible dwlee was busy, but the difference is that what I said is 100% accurate, and things dwlee has pushed are 100% not accurate. So who is really bad farthing who here?

Spoiler:

The point you make against Dwlee here makes sense I suppose. Tbh a lot of Dwlee's back-and-forths with others haven't really stuck to me, both from being unenjoyable to read (people getting frustrated and going in circles) and iirc relatively meta based? A bunch of games I haven't played in isn't the most compelling thing to consider. So I might not be giving those enough weight

...but this is still not an actual counter-argument to what I've said. Dwlee potentially engaging in bad faith argumentation doesn't somehow nullify the way you've been acting? You're not even denying you're engaging with Dwlee in bad faith, you're just saying Dwlee has also done so. Kinda confused

Also how could I think you're an easy push? Like you're posting plenty and haven't been pressured that much from other active posters. and even if I was ignorant to you not being an easy push at the start of the day... why would I be calling you out once again rn?

[VP Baltar]

You're not even denying you're engaging with Dwlee in bad faith, you're just saying Dwlee has also done so. Kinda confused

That's not what happened at all.

As far as you pushing me again, who else are you going to push of the people voting you? I'm the easiest approach

[Gammagooey]

There is zero chance meuh and dwlee are both town.

Hi, Gamma, I'm interested in your dwlee thoughts and their play in recent pages.

I think their Meuh push could be right, and I'd personally be surprised if the way they were pushing for this game day was coming from scum (b/c pushing one thing, realizing its wrong, and then jumping to push another feels more than a bit suicidal) but it's still at least plausible for a scum-Dwlee without a lot of time to go for that approach. The "VPB+Meuh are scum together" bit from him feels pulled out of a hat, your "look who's back" on him is dumb and not a scumtell, he at least seems to believe in the verbal tic thing being a potentially valid scumtell regardless of their alignment in this game imo

I think there's more of a reason for Meuh to be scum than Dwlee here. Dwlee is to be fair kind of a mess and I'm a bit disappointed that they aren't slowing down and trying to find a few more townreads and/or things to comment on from other people from the muck of the past but I don't really expect that from Dwlee as either alignment.

I also doubt this will be particularly helpful to you but it's what I think so either deal with it or pick it apart and tell me why I'm wrong and maybe something useful can come out of that instead.

[Gammagooey]

guh messed up pronouns in one sentence

The "VPB+Meuh are scum together" bit from them feels pulled out of a hat, your "look who's back" on them is dumb and not a scumtell, they at least seems to believe in the verbal tic thing being a potentially valid scumtell regardless of their alignment in this game imo

[VP Baltar]

I also doubt this will be particularly helpful to you but it's what I think so either deal with it or pick it apart and tell me why I'm wrong and maybe something useful can come out of that instead.

It's fine I guess. I think dwlee is more likely scum than meuh probably, but fully recognize I have a bias at this point because I think dwlee's exchanges with me are pretty detached from reality. The repeated misreps with multiple players bugs me, but if I'm being generous, I can agree with your view that it could town!dwlee who is short on time and doubling down on bad approaches under pressure.

I think I'm mostly ready for a flip at this point because it kind of feels like talking in circles about the same topics, and information will help.

[Kovu]

I have difficulty taking your pushes seriously when you basically say things like "I'm so town, expressing a scumread on me is a scumclaim!". It doesn't come close. I also know for a fact that being parked on datisi D1 wasn't necessary scum indicative either.

Ok, first off I truly don't appreciate all these "I kinda agree with the read but hate that you said it" kind of posts people keep making, if yall could just remember, I'm human too, that'd be amazing.

No where have I said "scumreading me is a scum claim" no where. That is just a terrible misrepresentation of what I've said. If you want clarity you can always just ask... I'm saying that marci referencing the game we were scum together and saying the 2 games are similar at all, is a scum claim. Both games were very different, not similar at all.Marci is literally just looking for an easy push without actually pushing that hard, this was essentially "Kovu is maf, now yall should case her!!" like, I don't like how you just shoot down what I said on the basis that I said it, and I'm pretty certain you didn't actually read what I was saying. Being parked on Datisi ALL of Day 1 isn't scum indicative? Showing no effort to actually solve, and just keep up the weak Datisi push isn't scum indicative? I think you're actually missing the point here that marci is scum, and if this is some sort of thing where in a debate you attack the person making the argument, and not the argument itself??

whatever. why do I even try, yall hate me when I give effort, yall hate me when I'm having some fun, so am I to take this as just I'm hated and no one likes me? I post, no one will answer for HOURS. every. single. time. there's a serious post I make, it's genuinely just the most frustrating thing ever.

[gorilla]

VOTE: dunnstral

I slept on it. Also okay with the marci vote after looking over her recent iso, where there seems to be...not much of a focus on anything. Not going to invictus luke anymore, you all can sort that out yourselves.

[Dwlee99]

You don't have to agree with my associative reads to see how blindingly obvious VP scum is right now

Also, because this is necessary now I guess, I'm going to get dinner. I might be a couple hours cause I'm sitting down. Sorry for all whom this may disturb

Lol OK. Fwiw, if I was scum, I'd probably pile drive you here as payback. That should be a huge sign to you I'm town. I'm giving you space and legitimately trying to consider what a town you looks like here. Anyhow, have a nice dinner.

You say you're giving me space but then said I was scum for being away from thread for 3.5 hours. That's not space at all

ok sure why not

VOTE: Meuh

@fire - if you truly prefer meuh, I'll join you. I do think dwlee is hard flailing here, but meuh isn't exactly doing shit to make me not want them dead.

Flailing isn't scum-indicative for me

[Dwlee99]

-snip-

I kinda see what you're saying but if town!marci it seems like the given read was a throwaway "here's a random thought I had" instead of being something that she is tied to. I don't even think she voted you, and she prefaced it by saying "Can I say something stupid?" which to me makes me think her position isn't to be taken as firmly.

-snip-

I can understand why it could be that most of my and Lavar wagons yesterday could be town (scum trying to avoid looking bad) but it could also be the case that scum just plopped a vote on one of us because it would be all the same to them. You didn't really tie this together but I'm guessing you think that Marci not voting either of us is scummy then, but I want to see your thoughts on everyone off the wagons and not just Marci, and also who you think could be scum on the wagons.

[Val89]

It wasn't because you said it. We obviously have very different ideas as to what rises to the level of a scum claim.

No, being parked on Datisi D1 wasn't necessary scum indicative, and I know that for a absolute fact. I am sure you are smart enough to figure out how I know that. It's possible there was a scum motivation for doing so in marci's case, but it's not something that comes from scum exclusively.

Pedit - @kovu

[Bell]

I’m really against a meuh elimination even though they’re weird.

[Bell]

You're not even denying you're engaging with Dwlee in bad faith, you're just saying Dwlee has also done so. Kinda confused

That's not what happened at all.

As far as you pushing me again, who else are you going to push of the people voting you? I'm the easiest approach

This is actually exactly what happened.

[Enchant]

Let's just sheep conftown.

[Meuh]

Tbh yeah, I’d love to just sheep Bell here

[Kovu]

-snip-

I kinda see what you're saying but if town!marci it seems like the given read was a throwaway "here's a random thought I had" instead of being something that she is tied to. I don't even think she voted you, and she prefaced it by saying "Can I say something stupid?" which to me makes me think her position isn't to be taken as firmly.

-snip-

I can understand why it could be that most of my and Lavar wagons yesterday could be town (scum trying to avoid looking bad) but it could also be the case that scum just plopped a vote on one of us because it would be all the same to them. You didn't really tie this together but I'm guessing you think that Marci not voting either of us is scummy then, but I want to see your thoughts on everyone off the wagons and not just Marci, and also who you think could be scum on the wagons.

Yeah see, I could see that yes, but looking at that ISO, there's not a whole lot of thoughts, so like, why even go "hey I have a stupid thought.Kovu maf" if you're not going to provide ANYTHING that supports that. like, I don't see the point in town doing that. Especially so close to eod, like unless the goal was to shift a wagon to me? cause sure I've been coasting D2, but what's the actual purpose of marci deciding that was worth saying in the first place...

I'm not interested in discussing my other reads, the lack of attention anyone is giving marci's slot is what genuinely concerns me for how bad that ISO is. like, Dwlee, think about it. you're town yes? focus has been on you forever. Datisi was town, lots of focus went there. why is marci getting no attention...

[Enchant]

Tbh yeah, I’d love to just sheep Bell here

???

I meant to sheep Me, because i am conftown

[Bell]

*takes reins*

Fire who do you wanna lim? *let’s go of reins*

I’m utterly and totally tunneled on Baltar.
I’m open to Marci if Luke is comfortable killing there.

[Kovu]

*takes reins*

Fire who do you wanna lim? *let’s go of reins*

I’m utterly and totally tunneled on Baltar.
I’m open to Marci if Luke is comfortable killing there.

not gonna lie, part of me kinda is thinking VP maf.. like every time I'll post and no one will respond.. like he has posted right before me many of the times, and just ignores what I say when I'm actually making a solid point, it's just like, VP... you have no comment? idk, it's a very recent thought, and I was like, hold up.. someone has been tunneling him in thread and I've just ignored... but I think you might have a genuine point there.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Marci

I’m down.

So my townreads in no order as follows:

{R&R, bell, Val, kovu, sc, fire, fey}

I’m down to lim any of the following:
{dwlee, Marci}

I want to lim Meuh, but RR has a townread on that slot so I wanna flesh out why tbh

This seems too narrow

Dwlee - I am paying attention to what you are saying, but it's coming a little too late for me to know how much stock to place in it until I am comfortable with your alignment, which might well take your flip. In the meantime, I am going here.

VOTE: Meuh

Baltar is the only one we can't seem to get momentum on though and I'm way more confident on my Baltar scumread than my associative scumread on Meuh + she seems to agree with me on Baltar and I like that

There is zero chance meuh and dwlee are both town.

That's how I feel about you and her

As of late, your interactions with Dwlee have been terrible and despite you acting like you're giving them a real chance, you keep engaging with them in bad faith.

TRUE

The "VPB+Meuh are scum together" bit from them feels pulled out of a hat, your "look who's back" on them is dumb and not a scumtell, they at least seems to believe in the verbal tic thing being a potentially valid scumtell regardless of their alignment in this game imo

My associative reads are often pulled out of a random web in my brain that sees a link

And then occasionally I nail it but there's a lot of false positives

My best moment probably ever was in KTANE when tldr there was a role that could force an explosion to frame townies but town didn't know yet, and the only way Baltar could be town fmpov was if the role existed, and then I predicted that Baltar was scum, the role existed, and that the person he was trying to lim was that role to try to save himself.

Now by predict it was more of a "wait that would be funny" but yea

-snip-

I don't think marci as either alignment thought the wagon would shift to you. As for the attention thing, I actually agree with you that it is scum-indicative but this attention thing is actually way worse wrt Baltar. He has conftown scumreading him, a case I made on him, other people scumreading him, etc. but he is getting ignored. Basically I agree with the premise of what you're saying but think there's a much stronger argument that it applies to Baltar than Marci.

[Kovu]

Let's see what happens.

VOTE: VP Baltar

[Meuh]

Let's do it! VOTE: VP Baltar