Open 854 | Eurybia's Curse | Game Over!

[Aristeia]

I think my only two confident townreads are skitter and coral

if skitter is scum here she is punking me pretty hard :<

[Isis]

Pavowski luigi

[Isis]

Is your skitter townread articulable? I'm writing coral off as town

[Aristeia]

I feel like I should know more at this point but I don't and it's ick.

GuiltyLion's case on Marci resonates with me but he was also wrong on Beat so I'm not really comfortable giving him a second shot atp even though I think Beat was pretty scummy[cuz pretty scummy townies look pretty scummy to mafia too and GL's good enough of a scum to know to push people who look scummy]

I agree that Marci looks kind of scummy now.

[Aristeia]

Is your skitter townread articulable? I'm writing coral off as town

I just feel the way she approached pushing me felt like town being genuinely worried that scum!me was taking control of thread and game state and cleverly plotting a course for the iceberg.

[Meuh]

Pavowski luigi

This made me laugh the hardest I have in a while and I’m in the middle of a math class so it was very embarrassing
Thank you for this though I needed that laugh

Will answer what I’ve been asked when I have the opportunity to!

[marcistar]

just elim me if u guys want to so badly
like im not gonna really fight it i dont have the motivation for that

[Aristeia]

marci nooooooooo

[Coral]

aw

i do try not to be but i am highly vulnerable to appeals like that

[marcistar]

like its true

idrc for being forced to give reads
even so, i dont even knowwhat my reads are rn, im so confused abt everything and i was purposely trying to fade out yeah.

[Aristeia]

marci ilu even if you're mafia

[Aristeia]

sundress sisters for life

[GuiltyLion]

I feel like I should know more at this point but I don't and it's ick.

GuiltyLion's case on Marci resonates with me but he was also wrong on Beat so I'm not really comfortable giving him a second shot atp even though I think Beat was pretty scummy[cuz pretty scummy townies look pretty scummy to mafia too and GL's good enough of a scum to know to push people who look scummy]

I agree that Marci looks kind of scummy now.

I think this is fair, like I myself don't want to be calling all the shots necessarily especially if marci is town then game is in a bad state - I should prob be suspicious of anyone sheeping me too easily

I just don't like the Isis wagon and it does feel marci is a good bet for scum on the wagon

I could be convinced to sheep elsewhere if the case is good, but realistically that'd probably only be Gamma on the wagon currently? She's the only slot a decent number of my townreads are suspecting. Everyone else I don't want to paranoia re-evaluate yet nor do I like the current pushes against them (thinking of votes on Titus/Isis mainly).

one problem is I'm a very "things need to be happening to put scum in difficult situations" player and we have a number of players in this lobby (Fruit, marci, Pav, Cakez, even skitter on occasion) who seem content to either not vote or let their vote sit on a vanity wagon for extended periods of time, and when that happens every impulse in me is to fill the void and try to create a significant wagon

if I don't get to call the shot today then I need some other folks to step up and lead

[GuiltyLion]

like its true

idrc for being forced to give reads
even so, i dont even knowwhat my reads are rn, im so confused abt everything and i was purposely trying to fade out yeah.

like, if you're town here, this is just not helpful

you don't have to give reads on everyone but at least put a vote down and stand for

something

if you believe Gamma's scum you're never going to get them eliminated with this attitude so to me it's hard to see a genuine townie trying to win

[Aristeia]

can you articulate why you townread Isis?

[marcistar]

like its true

idrc for being forced to give reads
even so, i dont even knowwhat my reads are rn, im so confused abt everything and i was purposely trying to fade out yeah.

like, if you're town here, this is just not helpful

you don't have to give reads on everyone but at least put a vote down and stand for

something

if you believe Gamma's scum you're never going to get them eliminated with this attitude so to me it's hard to see a genuine townie trying to win

maybe i would be more helpful if u STOPPED TRYING TO FORCE ME TO DO STUFF

[GuiltyLion]

Also i'm not sure i understand your isis townread - can you elaborate plz?

there's a bunch of posts from Isis where she's making insightful reads and pushing the game in a way that feels like authentic scumhunting. The latest such post that really made me feel "yup Isis town" is 1805 for example - I don't think it's as likely scum would have a) identified and remembered that marci's attitude towards Fruit changed specifically after Fruit called her out, b) thought to push it at this juncture in the game when marci isn't exactly a popular scumread.

and there's posts like this all over her ISO. your argument against her hasn't been convincing to me - like it feels like you're taking a post like 1669 far too seriously when you say it's "putting blame on Ari", and you're also holding onto 108 as if it's some super indicative thing when to me it seems like you just don't like the explanation/thought process moreso than it being something that town wouldn't post.

I took a stab at it here

I think another way for me to try to summarize it is the level of depth/complexity to her reasoning is something I generally think is difficult for scum to fake without starting to sound disingenuous or manipulative. The marci read I mentioned here is a good example, another random one I am pulling out of ISO is 1077 - if we were in a world where it's scum!Isis and town!Gamma, I don't think she's likely to come up with that sort of reasoning, because it's hard to think of these types of thought processes or reactions without it either a) sounding too much like BS or b) being self-conscious of the fact that it's BS. instead to me it feels genuine, like a player who is freely trying to capture and express things they don't like in others' posts

it's not a "she's never scum here" level of confidence but I'd much rather be chasing the more conventionally scummy slots first before getting too in my head about a world where Isis might be deep scum.

if I'm wrong I'd like to see Isis scum readers point out where exactly they think she's fabricating beliefs or twisting events to present a narrative. I know skitter hates 108 but that's like the only example anyone's given that I can recall off the top of my head.

also if skitt is town here I think she's so focused on trying to find the deepwolf that she's going to bat too much for the slots that have decent odds of being wolves on account of non-impactful/scummy play (Pav, marci, Gamma)

[Coral]

also if skitt is town here I think she's so focused on trying to find the deepwolf that she's going to bat too much for the slots that have decent odds of being wolves on account of non-impactful/scummy play (Pav, marci, Gamma)

This is connected to why I'm becoming more suspicious of skitter.

My understanding of the setup is that we generally want to be hunting the scummiest scum first, because we get significant benefit for eliminating them (5 town clears if we do it today, and victory if we do it tomorrow), and if we don't eliminate them, oops, they just escape. We can't save them for later. And one deepwolf can't win the game alone, they need to make it to endgame first.

skitter feels like she is looking one step ahead, to have scumreads ready for the future once the scummiest scum have escaped. It kinda feels like she's getting ready to say "oops!" after the scummiest scum escapes.

[Coral]

I guess we could eliminate any scum and win the game tomorrow. Maybe I'm thinking about things wrong.

[Aristeia]

well if we elim scum today we go into tomm with 5 clears and 2 scum

if we elim town today we go into tomm with no clears and 2 scum and scummiest scum escapes

[Aristeia]

if scum don't bus it will be very hard for 7 out of 9 town to agree on an elim

the game feels slow for some reason

[GuiltyLion]

Spoiler: Gamma recent posts on Isis

Again, who are these alleged partners Isis says I have

It shouldn’t be that hard if you’re forming that sort of theory
VOTE: Isis
Feels like you’re trying to force a miselim on me.

pls guys fruits my friend and he isnt used to how ppl on forums play hes just playing with what he knows from (he does irl maf with friends) and discord maf

its prob a cultural shock for him

ugh fruits always just such a frustrating player to deal with.

he calls me filler, but thats just exactly what he is.
refuses to read at times, complains about wagons in a way that it seems like hes trying to prevent progression, only focusing on reading skitter, a weird lack of reads in his iso.

i know hes perfectly capable but also i know he just generally likes shitting around and being stubborn

i dont scumread fruit im just statimg facts

when hes town he usually gets in the way of good scumhunting where we play

I think the thing really sinister about this progression is that after 1275, TUF has been granted agency. If 1275 is taken well by the other players, modest efforts of scumhunting from fruit will followed up on, rather than if she didn't post it, then we might view it as being too low effort to signal boost compared to other people in the town.

After 1534 TUF doesn't have agency. He's discredited. If you engage the lines he's questioning along you're participating in "getting in the way of good scumhunting".

The thing that changed was that TUF suspected her.

1275 is perhaps the scummier feather on the scale in the end. She probably has long held a belief that fruit is ineffective, but she characterized his posting favorably in 1275 because she expected fruit to just bloc with her for free since he doesn't know anyone else in the game. She'd be interested in doing that as both alignments but more interested as scum because town!marci doesn't know whether she needs to just kill TUF d1 because he's scum (she's never actually posted an affirmative reason to townread him, all game)

This is actually rather compelling

Looking at VCs I feel like 25% more confident Isis is scum

Gamma can you walk me through the mindset of post 1830

how compelling is it really if you're keeping your vote on Isis and still think Isis is scum? I'm trying to check why your vote is on Isis and I get that you don't like her SR on you but where you then point out a good point she made against marci feels incongruent with the rest of this progression. I'm not seeing why you posted 1830 if you're ultimately ignoring it

[Meuh]

Meuh, what are your feelings on skitter? Do you think you came to your reads independently of her and by your own reasoning? Or did you find her cases convincing?

I'll probably look to see for myself but I'm curious if you have any thoughts on the subject

Skitter's someone I've been feeling conflicted on.
At the very start of the game I felt good about her, then later on I didn't really like the way her and Isis interacted and had generally been feeling less good about her.
Then I started feeling like she was just town again
and now she's taking stances that feel mindmeldy and that's very comforting. It's just nice to have someone else with a similar outlook on the game. Tonally though? I've been mostly meh on her since the very start

Meuh what would help you see me town bc unlike skitter I think you rolled town so

How do we learn eachothers language

Hmm I'm not too sure... I find your alignment a bit hard to discern from your posting. Should probably give you a proper reread.
Maybe we should just talk, that usually works
About what? Idk
Admittedly I think I give whether or not people agree with me too much weight. That likely doesn't help.

[Meuh]

I guess we could eliminate any scum and win the game tomorrow. Maybe I'm thinking about things wrong.

I thought about this at the start of the game, forgetting that scum have a free escape at EoD2 if we mislim twice. There's no benefit to purposely mislimming today, as funny as that would be

[Meuh]

I guess we could eliminate any scum and win the game tomorrow. Maybe I'm thinking about things wrong.

I thought about this at the start of the game, forgetting that scum have a free escape at EoD2 if we mislim twice. There's no benefit to purposely mislimming today, as funny as that would be

Wait I misread your post oops
disregard