Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[Freedom]

Based on my read through, I trust FL, Nashville, Klick and SoD.
This leaves a PoE is Menalque, bnuuy and tictac.

[Freedom]

By the way, @tictac, could you please link the posts which detailed a guilty on FL?

[Freedom]

mastina likes to bus so it's possible we've got mafia in {FL, Mathblade}

This is the last thing STD said before Mathblade flipped Town and he promptly got NKed.
This obviously would point to FL.

Other than genuinely having the worst attitude I've ever seen you have, you've been using subtle manipulations all game long.
And no, nothing does prevent me from gladiating you tomorrow - I said I'm going for FL though, and thats where I'm going. I'm sticking to what I've said.

And while I live, you're on Death's List - and I plan to take you down in due course.

On the other hand, the choice of NKing Keeper is more complex. Keeper had expressed interested in gladiating FL but told Nero that faer planned to take him down per my interpretation of the quoted. If I'm not misinterpreting, 11196 furthers the idea that fae was interested in gladiating Nero.

[Freedom]

@Freedom - STD was likely a wolf kill based on being a monk. STD been one of my biggest defenders all game.

I see.

Do you think Wolves ever let me live tomorrow night, and risk me being Mafia and winning this game after all of this?

This is ironically the #1 reason that I am not really a threat.

I seriously don’t see anyone risking this unless they truly truly don’t believe I am Mafia.

Thinking about your question, regardless of your alignment, only the Werewolves benefit from your elimination in the end.
Another thing which I found interesting is that even if you are Mafia, you won't benefit from a Werewolf win.
Thus, I would say that this post definitely got me completely swayed.

[Freedom]

However if we are limming in a pool of Menalque, bnuuy and tictac.
I would be happier if the order was bnuuy then Menalque then tictac.
With that though, I would like to wait a bit longer before casting my vote.

[Freedom]

I would like everyone to state their 2 biggest wolf reads.

Same as you, TBH.
While I think that tictac's ISO is adequate, I think that tictac feels more quiet than expected.
(Though I'm basing my knowledge of town!tictac on CONTROL, where they seemed quite proactive and involved.)
As for bnuuy, I think that Klick's response to them in 11359 sums up my concerns.

[Freedom]

CONTROL

r u an alt of someone from that game?

Nah.
I spectated.

Oops.
Sorry.

[Freedom]

Freedom are you an alt?

Yeah.
I am RH9.

[Freedom]

I would like everyone to legitimately, deeply think about these posts in the context of the rest of SoD's play and tell me what their read is on this behaviour. I'm less interested in a discussion about it influenced by others' opinions, and more interested in everyone's personal opinion on this when they look at it carefully.

TBH, SoD does feel a bit confused.
This could be that they didn't read the mod posts.
However, another theory is that it could be a dumbtell.

[Freedom]

Town

Klick
Nashville
Menalque
FL
tictac
bnuuy
SoD

Wolf

These are my current reads.

[Freedom]

Town

Klick
Nashville
Menalque
FL
tictac
bnuuy
SoD

Wolf

These are my current reads.

Nashville?

also I thought you thought I was scum, when/why did that change

Re: Nashville, they have consistently shown a Town mindset. While they aren't perfect as per the MathBlade lim, I would say that I trust them to be Town more than others.
Re: you, it changed when I read 11337. I think that the level of frustration that that post resonated didn't feel like something scum would be able to fake.

[Freedom]

I would like everyone to legitimately, deeply think about these posts in the context of the rest of SoD's play and tell me what their read is on this behaviour. I'm less interested in a discussion about it influenced by others' opinions, and more interested in everyone's personal opinion on this when they look at it carefully.

TBH, SoD does feel a bit confused.
This could be that they didn't read the mod posts.
However, another theory is that it could be a dumbtell.

listen here you lil shit

do you have any idea the depths of my unintelligent bouts?

Uh, no.
Could you enlighten me please?

[Freedom]

Town

Klick
Nashville
Menalque
FL
tictac
bnuuy
SoD

Wolf

These are my current reads.

Why am I your lowest opinion?

Forgot to say this before but my reads on you and bnuuy are somewhat interchangeable.
I just distrust dumbtells.

[Freedom]

By the way, bnuuy, the thing about dumbtells was directed to SoD not you.

[Freedom]

Is everything all right?

[Freedom]

You sounded concerned in 11427 so I thought that I ought to ask if anything was the matter.

[Freedom]

11427 was me being confused at how his friend’s mom being a narcissist related to the game

Oh.
That makes sense.
I concur on your confusion too.

[Freedom]

I see.
Anyways, SoD, what do you think if I move you up to null?
Now, that I think about your confusion and your last post, I am thinking maybe your confusion is NAI.
Though, I'm still not swayed onto TRing you yet.

[Freedom]

VOTE: bnuuy
If we're all voting our strongest Werewolf reads, I think that this will be my vote.
Especially, since I have SoD as null now.

[Freedom]

By the way, bnuuy, could you reiterate your reads?
It would be nice to have a refresher.

[Freedom]

Think flavor is mafia
Would say Mena, Ducks, and tic-tac feel like wolves

If wolf, this probably confirms Wolves legitimately think I’m mafia.

I like the 3 wolf picks, makes me more confident with my solve.

I agree.
If bnuuy is a Werewolf, I'm confident that tictac is Werewolf too.
Though, I still need to reevulate my other reads for a third Werewolf.

[Freedom]

bnuuy is hammered now.
FL is a monk which STD confirmed meaning that if bnuuy flips Werewolf, the team is tictac and one of Nashville, Mena and SoD
But I starting to doubt that SoD is a Werewolf and I don't think that Mena is scum so I'm probably misreading Nashville.

[Freedom]

If we lim FL, we go to 2 wolves in 5 alive. Elo.

You do realise that you're part of some people's PoE, right?

[Freedom]

If we lim a Werewolf today, you're most likely to become the next lim with the way people's reads are currently going.

[Freedom]

So is everybody determined to vote tictac?
I haven't read much protest against so I'm assuming that most people aren't against.

[Freedom]

The goal has to be lim scum first and hopefully show I am town that way. The goal is to keep us in control.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

[Freedom]

tictac, what changed on your read on my slot?

[Freedom]

@Sword - Freedom - do you two understand why Wolves always shoot me tonight if a Mafia is unflipped? Even if we flip ND and they flip Mafia, wolves shoot me over Klick.

Because you are a Monk and the Werewolves think that you are Mafia.

[Freedom]

@Freedom/Sword - Would you sheep me on TicTac? As someone who cannot be a Wolf. I feel TicTac is 100% obviously a wolf.

Sure.
If it's between Mena, Nashville and tictac, I might as well vote for my highest read.
VOTE: tictac

[Freedom]

Anyone else want to point out the reason why TicTac confirmed themselves as scum in that post

Go ahead.

[Freedom]

Anyone else want to point out the reason why TicTac confirmed themselves as scum in that post

Go ahead.

They’re saying I need that by going after the Mason + Wolves, trying to imply I’m going after a town Mason, but going after a townie loses the game from a MafiaLeaf POV, so in that scenario I wouldn’t need just a Mason. I’d need a wolf.

I see.
That is true if you're Mafia, with a Town limmed, Werewolves NK one more and then they win but not Mafia.
If you're Town, limming town!tictac also isn't good for you.

[Freedom]

I would like to reiterate that not only is it the winning move but it also makes the game approx 1000x more playable and enjoyable if we lim FL today

Why can't we do that tommorrow?

[Freedom]

I would like to reiterate that not only is it the winning move but it also makes the game approx 1000x more playable and enjoyable if we lim FL today

Why can't we do that tomorrow?

EBWOP

This is scum!Menalque approximately 0% of the time

I agree.

[Freedom]

@Sword / Freedom - You wanna just kill Nashville? TicTac voting there means they think they're Mafia or they're a wolf buddy and they're distancing.

Then I just get shot if Nash is a wolf, or I'm cleared if they're Mafia.

I am a bit worried about Nashville potentially being Town but then if both Mena and SoD are Town, then maybe Nashville is scum.
But then, SoD is null for me.

[Freedom]

@Sword / Freedom - You wanna just kill Nashville? TicTac voting there means they think they're Mafia or they're a wolf buddy and they're distancing.

Then I just get shot if Nash is a wolf, or I'm cleared if they're Mafia.

I am a bit worried about Nashville potentially being Town but then if both Mena and SoD are Town, then maybe Nashville is scum.
But then, SoD is null for me.

If you, me, and Sword are all town, Nash has to be scum.

I understand but I don't exactly TR SoD.
They're null.
So to me, if nobody wants to lim tictac, then Nashville is the next person for today.

[Freedom]

Yeah I'm not interested in aiming for wolves today. That can be Mafia's problem if we miss, it shouldn't be too hard at that point. I want to hit Mafia.

I'm still not sold that FL is like, *comfirmed* Mafia, but that is currently my highest suspicion. I know tictac thinks it's just FL. I'm interested if anyone has other suspicions.

Personally, I don't.

[Freedom]

TicTac changes right after the Nashville wagon got close to range

That is interesting.
It feels a bit off that they changed so quickly.

[Freedom]

I won’t vote yet in case ducks/freedom wanna respond to that

I would prefer tictac being limmed before FL.

[Freedom]

SoD Vanilla
Mastina not vanilla
Cassowary not vanilla
Keeper not vanilla
Bnuuy vanilla
Menalque vanilla
Freedom not vanilla

This is a lie.
I am VT.
VOTE: Nashville

[Freedom]

TBH I wonder how Nashville got to the idea that I'm not Vanilla.

[Freedom]

But a genuine Vanilla Cop would've gotten me as Vanilla.
There's no way for them to have gotten me as not one.

[Freedom]

But a genuine Vanilla Cop would've gotten me as Vanilla.
There's no way for them to have gotten me as not one.

must have been a mod fuck up then b/c its what we got.....

Are you now saying that I am indeed Vanilla?

[Freedom]

11681 and 11697 feel contradictory to me.

[Freedom]

I can't tell if you're trying to confuse us into not suspecting you or what.

Nashville claims Vanilla Cop
Nashville claims Freedom is Not Vanilla
Freedom claims Vanilla

= either Nashville or Freedom is lying.

Don't forget 11697 where Nashville backtracks and blames Ceph for messing up results.

[Freedom]

By the way, can anybody explain why scum!me doesn't just NK Klick instead of FL? It is more beneficial if scum!me wants to win.

[Freedom]

By the way, can anybody explain why scum!me doesn't just NK Klick instead of FL? It is more beneficial if scum!me wants to win.

I'd like to hear a response to this from Nashville

Absolutely not. Scum freedom has to gamble on FL not shooting him because of no draw rules that have been highlighted. We're an easy miselimination.

I do?
FL wanted to shoot Mena. He said in 11663.

[Freedom]

We are also missing a wolf roleblocker or the like.

By the way, when was a Werewolf Roleblocker mentioned specifically to exist?

[Freedom]

I don't recall any mention of any Werewolf PRs except for Mason.
And of course, catboi's slot flipped Bookie.

[Freedom]

@Titus, can you explain why Mala and you contradict each other on whether I'm a Vanilla or PR?
I'm not sure if you answered this already but I want to double check.

[Freedom]

I see.
Thanks, Nashville for explaining.

[Freedom]

Nashville, may I ask you something random?
Do you think that I'll pretend to be a VT as a Werewolf PR?
Wouldn't it be easier going along with your results?

[Freedom]

Freedom, when you read through upon replace-in, how much did you read? And how much would you say you have read since then?

Not much before. I just did a few ISOs.
I've been reading every page since though.

[Freedom]

SoD, what are your reads on Nashville and me?

[Freedom]

I see.
Though, we could risk a no-lim today.
That results in tommorrow being a 2-1 ELO.
But then, you would need to decide tommorrow, if today ends in indecision.
But then, it's your choice so no pressure.

[Freedom]

Freedom, can you talk to me about your read on SoD as you replaced in? What were your initial thoughts on him, and why/how did they change? I want a fairly clear picture of how you read the slot over time, and what things changed your read.

As I said in 11269, I trusted SoD when I repped in. I forgot what made me think that TBH.
It was your 11402 that led to me dropping SoD to a Wolf read due to my distrust of dumbtells. Then, SoD posted 11434. Their explanation on their confusion made sense to me so I moved them to Null as I said in 11435. Then, Titus scumclaimed with her faked VC results in 11681. This makes me deduce that SoD is Town.

[Freedom]

As I said in 11269, I trusted SoD when I repped in. I forgot what made me think that TBH.

But this is the bit I'm most interested in! You had them as one of your four trusted players, surely there's something you can remember from your catch-up?

I would be lying if I said that I remember.

[Freedom]

Rather just lim scum which is you

Then, vote me.

[Freedom]

Everybody, do you have anything to say?

[Freedom]

Also, Nashville, you should really vote me if you think that I'm scum.

[Freedom]

By the way, can anybody explain why scum!me doesn't just NK Klick instead of FL? It is more beneficial if scum!me wants to win.

I'd like to hear a response to this from Nashville

Absolutely not. Scum freedom has to gamble on FL not shooting him because of no draw rules that have been highlighted. We're an easy miselimination.

Freedom

, why do you say that you would nightkill Klick as opposed to last member of opposing faction?

I'm assuming FL would have been the consensus elim for the next day, or perhaps Klick was leaning towards Freedom!scum or something.

Klick has TRed me for a while, actually.
The reason why I said that NKing Klick would seem better was because FL was for either Mena or Nashville being last Werewolf. Keeping FL alive would be helpful in getting Nashville elimmed.
I think that the next Night phase is what Nashville was describing as a gamble. It is that FL suddenly decides that I'm a Werewolf and that he should NK me over your slot.
But if you look at FL's 11529, he shows little to no doubts that I'm Town.
Meanwhile, he said the quoted:

Spoiler: Quotes

If Menalque is town, Nashville is scum 100% of the time?

I don't see what you guys see in the Menalque scenario, but yeah.

@Sword / Freedom - You wanna just kill Nashville? TicTac voting there means they think they're Mafia or they're a wolf buddy and they're distancing.

Then I just get shot if Nash is a wolf, or I'm cleared if they're Mafia.

@Sword / Freedom - You wanna just kill Nashville? TicTac voting there means they think they're Mafia or they're a wolf buddy and they're distancing.

Then I just get shot if Nash is a wolf, or I'm cleared if they're Mafia.

I am a bit worried about Nashville potentially being Town but then if both Mena and SoD are Town, then maybe Nashville is scum.
But then, SoD is null for me.

If you, me, and Sword are all town, Nash has to be scum.

TicTac changes right after the Nashville wagon got close to range

Though he did say:

The fact that I'm open to Flavor not being mafia but possibly seeing he is likely scares the actual mafia. Flavor's sudden swap on me today and claiming my suspicion on him is somehow novel is troublesome. The problem is that 2/3 of the scum feel too easy. I need my energy back but it's not coming.

@ND - I have tried to get Menalque and TicTac prior to going after you, and I have yet to vote you this day phase.

I may have you in the line, but by no means are you the main one. You are like the last scum to me, by poe mostly.

TicTac is setting you up to look like a wolf if you are not a wolf.

[Freedom]

Klick has TRed me for a while, actually.
The reason why I said that NKing Klick would seem better was because FL was for either Mena or Nashville being last Werewolf. Keeping FL alive would be helpful in getting Nashville elimmed.
I think that the next Night phase is what Nashville was describing as a gamble. It is that FL suddenly decides that I'm a Werewolf and that he should NK me over your slot.
But if you look at FL's 11529, he shows little to no doubts that I'm Town.

Yes, basically if scum shoot town, they lose in a 2 v 1 v 1 because of no draw. But if they shoot each other, town win. If wolves shoot Flavor, the game is in their own hands. That strictly benefits Freedom as FL was townreading us.

These are conflicting.

Nashville and/or anyone, who did FL most strongly suspect to be the werewolf?

FL suspeected Mena, followed by Nashville, followed by our slots.

[Freedom]

Nashville, may I ask you something random?
Do you think that I'll pretend to be a VT as a Werewolf PR?
Wouldn't it be easier going along with your results?

So, i see that we have:

Werewolf Goon + Werewolf Mason + Werewolf 1-X Bookie (what is this) + last werewolf

It seems like there's a werewolf PR still left standing, probably, since this team seems weak if they're vanilla. But I don't know what a bookie is.

Isn't that a good reason to pretend to be vanilla -- to avoid claiming a PR? I dunno.

A Bookie gets a benefit if they guess the elimination which tends to be a 1-Shot killing ability.
And I think that you're right that scum!me would pretend to be a VT to avoid claiming a PR because it makes more sense to do so.

I would like everyone to legitimately, deeply think about these posts in the context of the rest of SoD's play and tell me what their read is on this behaviour. I'm less interested in a discussion about it influenced by others' opinions, and more interested in everyone's personal opinion on this when they look at it carefully.

TBH, SoD does feel a bit confused.
This could be that they didn't read the mod posts.
However, another theory is that it could be a dumbtell.

I'm the one confused now. You sound like you're arguing for SoD possibly being town, but...

Town

Klick
Nashville
Menalque
FL
tictac
bnuuy
SoD

Wolf

These are my current reads.

SoD's your strongest wolf read -- stronger than tictac here? I don't really see anything you wrote about them up to this point that would suggest that

TBH that would be as a result of my distrust of dumbtells. I thought that the confusion was a dumbtell which led directly to me placing them down as a strong SR.

[Freedom]

Mena is advocating for FL's elim but im pretty sure that's just winning for werewolves, correct me if I'm wrong? Well people are saying it's actually 4v3

However if we are limming in a pool of Menalque, bnuuy and tictac.
I would be happier if the order was bnuuy then Menalque then tictac.
With that though, I would like to wait a bit longer before casting my vote.

Why Mena second?

I think that you're right.
And as for Mena second, that was because I had liked tictac more than Mena at that time, mainly because they appeared helpful and responded to my requests like in 11273.

[Freedom]

Town

Klick
Nashville
Menalque
FL
tictac
bnuuy
SoD

Wolf

These are my current reads.

Why am I your lowest opinion?

Forgot to say this before but my reads on you and bnuuy are somewhat interchangeable.
I just distrust dumbtells.

I understand you distrust dumbtells but you can see how placing SoD at the bottom of the list is a bit convenient when you just need to avoid limming a werewolf. Is there a reason in particular you think dumbtells are scum indicative rather than neutral at best?

I'm not sure if you missed 11424 but it was a formatting mistake and I intended to place bnuuy and tictac at the lowest. Regarding my distrust of dumbtells, it's because in my experience, scum tends to use them to fake towiness as a result of them tending to be viewed as mistakes.

[Freedom]

By the way, Tweetie, what do you think of Nashville FOSing me but not voting me in the last pages?

[Freedom]

Well, I'm not sure why they haven't voted you given you're both confscum to each other as far as I understand. Unless that's not true and I'm still on the table

I think that it's do to with Mala being less confident on scum!me as Nashville mentioned in 11726.
But I've told Nashville that they can vote me if I'm conf!scum to them, as I said in 11753 and 11756 after they said that they wanted to lim me.

[Freedom]

From my precursory little search ive been doing, i haven't seen a terribly good reason to oppose Klick's vote. There doesn't really seem to be an obvious answer here -- in either slot's case, they're the most highly townread wolf in the game.

There is so much content to go through just reading Nash + Nero/WallFlower/Freedom's ISOs. Clearly not a small effort

The thing I would want to ask both Nash and Freedom is, from your perspective, how has the other slot's actions throughout this entire D8 game assisted a werewolf agenda? But Freedom really has only been here a bit longer than me, so I can only ask Nash how it is obvious.

So far the only thing Nash has convinced me of is that FL was the best nightkill for all wolves.

I'll try my best to answer this.
I would say that Nashville seemed quite early to prefer a lim on FL.
In 11271, they described FL's reads as being "a pile of omgus" and called him "mafia".
Then, in 11393, they referred to him "the only viable lim if" they did their "math right".
When questioned by Klick, they attribute their statement to "Menalque's statement he would only accept an FL lim", in 11395.
Then, in 11400, they declare that they "would likely go along with the lim of tictac Menalque or Bnnuuy" but they "don't like being told what to do for the record".
They claim in 11495 that it is "Safer play is to eliminate mafia" before going "I think we lim Flavor here as I think he's mafia" but also says "Might as well eliminate tictac".
11669 is interesting because they say "I'm preferring FL here but I'm following Klick's lead" followed by "I briefly saw Klick said no Menalque so it's Flavor or tictac".
Then, for today, it's just been mainly theoreticals and FOSing.
As for why I think that this is a Werewolf agenda, getting rid of FL via a lim means that they won't ever need to NK him because he's more likely to want to townside until there is only 1 remaining Werewolf. And, in my honest opinion and experience, final day theoreticals tend to be scum indicative as well as FOSing. Especially, from your POV, that person should be scum.

[Freedom]

GG.

[Freedom]

Thanks for modding, Ceph!

[Freedom]

Also, Ceph, you can release my Notes PT with no redactions.

[Freedom]

Still in shock I made it to Night 7

Grats town.

You’ll see in mafia thread I say Day 1 that my biggest threats were Dunn and Klick.

Why didn't you shoot Klick? Instead you shot my last miselimination....

Were you going to mislim Keeper?

[Freedom]

Still in shock I made it to Night 7

Grats town.

You’ll see in mafia thread I say Day 1 that my biggest threats were Dunn and Klick.

Why didn't you shoot Klick? Instead you shot my last miselimination....

Were you going to mislim Keeper?

Menalque

I see.