Open 99: Mayo Clinic (Game Over!) before 703

[Kmd4390]

Vote Stef

All part of The Gambit.

[Kmd4390]

unvote

That's the response I expected.

Vote Wall-E

for picking up the bait. I caught scum!

[Kmd4390]

Wall-E voted for Stef too. That makes Wall-E scum. [/joke from other game (Stef, Charter, and Nameless know what I am referring to)]

[Kmd4390]

The only thing that would work is probably for the viges (what's the proper plural for vig?) to claim, and then the docs protect them. That's probably a horrible idea though. Actually yeah, the docs would die, and eventually viges would die. It's suicide to try anything game breaking in this game.

[Kmd4390]

I don't know. When we start losing docs, the Vigs are sitting ducks. Say we mislynch a doc Day 1, and scum claims Vig. Who do we protect? If we are wrong, we lose a vig Night 1. Even if we are right, a doc is NK'd, leaving us at 4. Now, as soon as we lose just 1 more doc, we can't guarentee the saftey of the vigs.

[Kmd4390]

vote: NO LYNCH[/b]

No Lynch on Day 1? That is NEVER a good move.

Maybe charter wants to avoid a No Lynch since a lynch would mean the likelihood of us killing one of our own docs (50% chance of this happening).

FoS: charter

.

You FoS charter for making a good point. At night, docs will probably die, and vigs are eventually exposed. Where does a no lynch help this? We have 0 chance of killing the mafia or SK without lynching. At night, sure, maybe the vigs will kill scum, but a no lynch right now gives them almost no help finding anyone. Basically, no lynch is bad and suggesting it is enough for a:

Vote GnKoichi

However, I do think we can get more info out of the night stage than this part of the scum hunt.

Are you seriously trying to say that a No Lynch gives us MORE information?

Sorry 66% chance to kill one of our own. Still not good odds.

That's normal for any mafia game and most people will agree that no lynching on day 1 is bad. Also, that's the same as the odds you give a vig with a no lynch. Look at this from the point of view of a vig. So, hypothetically, you are a vig. We no lynch. With the information we have now, are you prepared to make a kill? There are 11 possible targets, 4 of which are scum. As vig, you have a 4/11, or 36%, chance of hitting scum and a 6/12, or 50% chance that your target is someone who the town is protecting. Also, assume that the mafia doc protects scum. That leaves 3 scum, 1 being protected. You have 2 possible targets who could be mafia and aren't protected by the mafia doc. Now, including SK, you have 3 good targets, and have to hope none of the 6 docs protected them. Odds are not good for our vigs. We need our lynch and some discussion to get anything done.

It seems no matter what I say, I make someone suspicious of me.

Try scumhunting instead of suggesting that we no lynch and put the entire game in the hands of vigs who know nothing vs. SK who doesn't need to know much and mafia who are going to be planning everything they do.

[Kmd4390]

Shit, buster, on those odds I'd whip out an uzi and mow over half the town D1, giggling while I did it, just trying to randomly win ON ACCIDENT! I would strap a chainsaw on each arm and leg and CARTWHEEL OF DEATH through EVERY. SINGLE. ONE of you, randomly chopping off heads, arms, and peckers on the OFF CHANCE I'd win with those spectacufuckinglar odds.

This made me laugh.

[Kmd4390]

You vote for charter because you misinterpreted what he said?

[Kmd4390]

Ok, first, are you trying to say that charter intentionally tried to make you suggest a no lynch?

Second, in those quotes, he mentions how it would be like nightless, which does nothing with a no lynch. Also, he clearly says he doesn't think no lynch is the right option.

[Kmd4390]

I didn't misinterpret.

That was my own misinterpretation

He said something that was misleading, I think purposefully.

I wasn't trying to blame charter for setting me up.

[Kmd4390]

What did you do to "act as a smoke screen" following his posts. You voted no lynch. If you think he was trying to mislead us, you are blaming him for your no lynch vote.

[Kmd4390]

Hmm.. i think newbie games are there for a reason. Just my two cents. However, as apparently i like to repeat myself, being a newbie doesn't make his mistakes tolerable or acceptable. I won't give him the newbie status. He's a player like any other since he joined an OG instead of a NG. His nonsense is derailing the discussion and that is against scum-hunting no matter of his alignment.

[Kmd4390]

hypothetical

Obviously this also plays into WIFOM, but if Wall-e and I were scum, wouldn't he try to distance himself from me right now? Since I'm a likely lynch target, him being the first to defend me would look terrible once my role were revealed.

/hypothetical

Yes. If you are both scum. If you are scum together, Wall-E would probably be bussing you soon if your lynch starts to look inevitible. If you are town, and Wall-E is scum, I could see Wall-E staying off the wagon to look like one of the few who was right.

Does every tidbit of info have to be about scumhunting?

No, but more scumhunting and less setup discussion would be nice.

[Kmd4390]

GnK, what connects me to charter?

[Kmd4390]

I posted what I thought were pretty direct contradictions. You showed that they weren't. I still don't like the way you blamed charter for what you did though. It's not that I think he is cleared as town or anything, I just don't think he is misleading us in the way you think he is. He seems pretty clear in his ideas so far.

[Kmd4390]

I know you said you aren't blaming him for your no lynch vote. But you ARE blaming him for what you call intentionally misleading us which IS what led you to vote no lynch. In what way do you think charter is misleading us?

Ok, in a way, I did defend Charter or at least his actions. I see what you are getting at. Not sure what more to say except that we aren't scum buddies.

[Kmd4390]

The question I was answering was "Why would I connect KMD & Charter, and how does that make either of them seem scummy?"

Tell me how to answer that without giving my reasons for thinking Charter is scummy.....
... Except once you lynch me and everyone sees I'm town, you and Charter are the next ones gone, because that will only prove that I'm right.

'kay?

Well you had already given your stance on charter. All you were I asked about was the conncection you mentioned.

And no, it wouldn't prove you are right. What it would do is prove that what you posted are your actual thoughts as town, which is valuable, it just isn't solid proof for anything. We can look at what you have said and ask ourselves "Could he have been right?", but we can't look at it and say "Well, he was town. Charter and Nameless are scum together."

[Kmd4390]

Why would you claim?

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I just read up on Wall-E vs. Charter/Nameless and it looks like Wall-E made a bad case and Nameless defended. Nothing out of the ordinary there. Bad cases can be made by either town or scum and if the case is bad, town or scum can defend it. Basically, I don't take much of anything from that whole thing.

[Kmd4390]

I know how this will sound after my lying speech, but I've always wanted to be SK. Never been one.

Same here. It would be fun.

[Kmd4390]

@ Kmd: You're making quite a few short posts without much depth. In as much detail as possible, who do you consider your number one suspect and why?

I think I've been pretty clear as far as my number one suspect.

vote: NO LYNCH[/b]

No Lynch on Day 1? That is NEVER a good move.

Maybe charter wants to avoid a No Lynch since a lynch would mean the likelihood of us killing one of our own docs (50% chance of this happening).

FoS: charter

.

You FoS charter for making a good point. At night, docs will probably die, and vigs are eventually exposed. Where does a no lynch help this? We have 0 chance of killing the mafia or SK without lynching. At night, sure, maybe the vigs will kill scum, but a no lynch right now gives them almost no help finding anyone. Basically, no lynch is bad and suggesting it is enough for a:

Vote GnKoichi

However, I do think we can get more info out of the night stage than this part of the scum hunt.

Are you seriously trying to say that a No Lynch gives us MORE information?

Sorry 66% chance to kill one of our own. Still not good odds.

That's normal for any mafia game and most people will agree that no lynching on day 1 is bad. Also, that's the same as the odds you give a vig with a no lynch. Look at this from the point of view of a vig. So, hypothetically, you are a vig. We no lynch. With the information we have now, are you prepared to make a kill? There are 11 possible targets, 4 of which are scum. As vig, you have a 4/11, or 36%, chance of hitting scum and a 6/12, or 50% chance that your target is someone who the town is protecting. Also, assume that the mafia doc protects scum. That leaves 3 scum, 1 being protected. You have 2 possible targets who could be mafia and aren't protected by the mafia doc. Now, including SK, you have 3 good targets, and have to hope none of the 6 docs protected them. Odds are not good for our vigs. We need our lynch and some discussion to get anything done.

It seems no matter what I say, I make someone suspicious of me.

Try scumhunting instead of suggesting that we no lynch and put the entire game in the hands of vigs who know nothing vs. SK who doesn't need to know much and mafia who are going to be planning everything they do.

Ok, first, are you trying to say that charter intentionally tried to make you suggest a no lynch?

Second, in those quotes, he mentions how it would be like nightless, which does nothing with a no lynch. Also, he clearly says he doesn't think no lynch is the right option.

What did you do to "act as a smoke screen" following his posts. You voted no lynch. If you think he was trying to mislead us, you are blaming him for your no lynch vote.

Hmm.. i think newbie games are there for a reason. Just my two cents. However, as apparently i like to repeat myself, being a newbie doesn't make his mistakes tolerable or acceptable. I won't give him the newbie status. He's a player like any other since he joined an OG instead of a NG. His nonsense is derailing the discussion and that is against scum-hunting no matter of his alignment.

I posted what I thought were pretty direct contradictions. You showed that they weren't. I still don't like the way you blamed charter for what you did though. It's not that I think he is cleared as town or anything, I just don't think he is misleading us in the way you think he is. He seems pretty clear in his ideas so far.

I know you said you aren't blaming him for your no lynch vote. But you ARE blaming him for what you call intentionally misleading us which IS what led you to vote no lynch. In what way do you think charter is misleading us?

Ok, in a way, I did defend Charter or at least his actions. I see what you are getting at. Not sure what more to say except that we aren't scum buddies.

[Kmd4390]

I'm going to hang back and see what else develops.

Don't lynch me for doing what everyone else should be doing (scumhunting/building cases).

[Kmd4390]

Wall-E, you contradicted yourself when you said you were going to sit back and let things develop and then said not to lynch you for scumhunting. The only hunting you have done was the bad case on charter and nameless.

Also, I agree about lurkers. They need to get in here.

[Kmd4390]

Wall-E, it's not a scumtell to be wrong. It's a scumtell to be contradictory.

[Kmd4390]

GnK, I post every single RL day, so I consider myself pretty active.

And as far as a lurker lynch, I generally don't like the idea on mafiascum. Day 1 lurkers are often replaced or become more active later.

[Kmd4390]

Let's knock Wall-E out, and then when he's shown to be Scum, we can take Charter tonight or tomorrow.

I'd be careful about saying this. If charter is scum, and the scum think that charter will be targeted with a kill, the mafia doctor (assuming we don't lynch them) will end up protecting him. I'm not trying to say that you were definitely trying to get a vig to shoot him, but try to stay clear of this kind of thing. Of course if you are scum, you don't really need to worry about this though.

Serious stretch here but it's possible that you are scum trying to get vig kills wasted with this comment.

[Kmd4390]

GnK, if we lynch one, are you going to assume the others alignment based on the flip? Like if we lynch Wall-E, and he flips scum, do you automatically assume Charter is scum too? Or if Wall-E flips town, do you assume Charter is town? Same questions if we lynch Charter, but with Wall-E's alignment.

[Kmd4390]

GnK, as long as you aren't trying to get a chain lynch out of it, I can accept that.

I actually can see a GnK/Wall-E connection. GnK says he tried to help Wall-E by voting (I don't get this) and then called Wall-E scum with Charter. If Wall-E and GnK are scum together, and we lynch Wall-E, Wall-E will flip scum, and GnK can push for Charter and say that he was right about Wall-E.

[Kmd4390]

From the one you just posted there, GK is the lynch that makes the most sense today, yes?

And where is my vote?

[Kmd4390]

Where did Charter say, "I am scum." He didn't.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and GnK, when you say that a major point in your case is that he went from saying hunch to saying know, do you realize you went from saying "almost admitted" to "ADMITTED"?

[Kmd4390]

Wait. You say he basically admitted to being scum, but is being misleading? If he is misleading us, and admitting to being scum, wouldn't that make him town by your logic?

Sorry, but bad case.

[Kmd4390]

I am not arguing semantics.

Nameless: That's not what "know" means,

Wait. You say he basically admitted to being scum, but is being misleading? If he is misleading us, and admitting to being scum, wouldn't that make him town by your logic?

Wait, wait, wait. Now

Kmd

is misinterpreting GK?

Damn it people, you can't ALL be scum.

It was sarcasm.

Nameless, to imply that I'm arguing semantics because I am expecting people to use the actual meaning of words is ridiculous.

Umm. Using meanings of words to help a case is exactly what arguing semantics means.

[Kmd4390]

Charter, did you knowingly claim scum?

[Kmd4390]

Wait. You say he basically admitted to being scum, but is being misleading? If he is misleading us, and admitting to being scum, wouldn't that make him town by your logic?

Sorry, but bad case.

You think I was really trying to tell you that Charter misled us by claiming scum as town? No. Straight up sarcasm. If you can't see it, then I don't even know what to tell you.

[Kmd4390]

Are you kidding? You are going to tell me that I don't even know what I was trying to say? That is horrible.

I was using sarcasm saying that Charter had "admitted to being scum" while "misleading the town", like you said he was. The sarcastic part was saying that a misleading scum claim would actually be a town claim. If you don't get that, there's something wrong.

[Kmd4390]

Animo, Charter never claimed scum. He said something that made GnK say that Charter admitted to being scum.

[Kmd4390]

Charter, did you knowingly claim scum?

No.

Well, there goes most of GnK's case. Or maybe Charter is misleading us by answering no.

I'd like to see him cough up his idea of who scum are.

Really? Pretty sure I've said GK and given reasons. I've said I think you are too, but I don't have time to make a giant case against you now.

Kiro? I'd be interested in seeing this "giant case" when you have the time.

318- Obviously I'm overstating.
329- Scum: GK, Kiro, animorph. SK: Kmd.

Really. What makes me the SK?

[Kmd4390]

See, this is why I didn't want to state my suspicions. Now I have to defend them.

And you expect to be able to do anything about suspicions without giving reasons because.....?

What makes you SK? I think you're playing like a SK. I don't have time to do four cases at once, not sure I even have time to do two. That's why I'm just focusing on GK, if someone (by divine intervention) overtakes him as scummiest, I'll have to put more effort in I suppose, but until then, fine with the GK lynch.

Not sure what you mean by "playing like a SK". But anyway, yes, I agree with a GnK lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Strawman.

He admitted to overstating which you say is the same as being misleading. No. Misleading is trying to get everyone to do something that you know hurts the town. Only scum would do this. Overstating is exaggerating which Nameless and Stef can verify Charter has done as town. He admitted to the second, not the first.

[Kmd4390]

Forgive him for what? He never admitted to being scum or misleading. Both are your interpretation of what he said.

[Kmd4390]

Wait, is that an admission to lying?

[Kmd4390]

Plum, you have GnK and Charter as your top 2 suspects. Do you think they are bussing each other?

[Kmd4390]

Stef, I started to re-read Charter this morning, and my girlfriend showed up so I PM'd it to myself quick, and still have it about half done. I'll finish it tomorrow morning. Basically, Charter doesn't look good, but I think GnK is scum, and they aren't aligned together, so like Plum said, one could be SK.

[Kmd4390]

Stef, I started to re-read Charter this morning, and my girlfriend showed up so I PM'd it to myself quick, and still have it about half done. I'll finish it tomorrow morning. Basically, Charter doesn't look good, but I think GnK is scum, and they aren't aligned together, so like Plum said, one could be SK.

Sorry, side tracked again. I'll get this up eventually. All of my games are pretty much taking a hit the last couple of days because of Survivor and RL.

[Kmd4390]

Kmd and Nameless, did Stef lurk in antifa?

Yes.

[Kmd4390]

Charter, you did call it "suspicions" in the post where you call Stef lurkerscum. Didn't you go after Nameless in Tranquility for naming several suspicions?

[Kmd4390]

I'll hammer if I feel nothing else needs to be answered. I'd like to let this back and forth play out between Charter and GnK first.

Animo needs to address some suspicions on him.

Would also like some posts from lurkers, but if that doesn't happen before everything else, it's not the worst thing in the world.

[Kmd4390]

Wall-E, I'd like to hear why you made the sudden turn around.

Tony, suspicions?

[Kmd4390]

Let me ask this to both Charter and GnK. If you were lynched today, what would you like to see happen Day 2? I'm not saying we should blindly follow what you say. I just feel that in games I've played recently, players aren't paying enough attention to what dead people said before they died. You see people say that we get valuable information from dead townies, but nobody seems to take that info and use it.

Nameless, you should know by now that I like to see things answered before a hammer. That doesn't mean a lynch should never happen though.

[Kmd4390]

GnK, I'd much rather see you lynched than Charter. I really think we may have caught both a scum, and the SK in you and Charter. Not sure which is which, but you are both extremely scummy, yet not really connected IMHO.

[Kmd4390]

Well if you aren't suspicious of Charter anymore, who

are

you suspicious of?

[Kmd4390]

We don't know exactly what he was thinking at that time though...

[Kmd4390]

If he is scum with you, it's entirely possible that he could have said that he thought the vote was a hammer in order to gain townie points later. If this were true, he would unvote later (which he did) and push another case. Then if you turn up dead, he can refer back to his "hammer", and look better because of it.

[Kmd4390]

Well, I admit it's a stretch, but I don't like the idea of just clearing actions like that. And no, I didn't say I think OP is scum. I said we don't know what he was thinking. Meaning it's possible that he knew it wasn't the hammer. The fact is, we just don't know.

[Kmd4390]

And I didn't say that you thought he was scum.

However, since this line of thinking leads to one more person who thinks OP is scum, I support it.

Then who is the "one person who thinks OP is scum"?

[Kmd4390]

If you think it's misquoted, it should be easy to answer the question, which you didn't do. The way I see it, you clearly said that you thought that I think OP is scum. In your next post, you say that that's not what you said.

As far as OP, I see him more as floundering town than scum. It's not a strong read, but that's what I see right now. He looks like scumbait (easy target for scum) to me.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, so correct me if I'm wrong on this. You don't think that I think OP is scum, but it can be seen that I do?

For clarification, I don't think OP is scum right now.

What question didn't I answer? Or was that directed at Charter?

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I can accept that answer. Thanks for the clarification.

[Kmd4390]

I'm

V/LA

from wednesday till sunday, due to a trip to NY.

Where in NY?

I also don't think OP finding that quote of Stef was much of a Pro-town action, since it was clearly ignoring the tone of the statement.

True, but I don't think we can know that the intent is scummy.

[Kmd4390]

I'd like an analysis from Animorph in his next post. That way, if he is town, we can take some info from his post.

[Kmd4390]

He replaced Mana.

[Kmd4390]

Elvis: I've tried to be pro-town all game, though I realize now where I failed. I would say that since Page 24 I've been playing much better, and my posts have started to match my intentions.

Ok, so we can ignore the first 23 pages of the game, right?

[Kmd4390]

It's "understandable" because you are the scummiest player in the game. If you weren't, then I wouldn't be thinking you are scum, and I wouldn't be voting you.

[Kmd4390]

Hey, my opinions aren't changing, and I'm not going to sit here and repeat things like I did in Tranquility.

I think GNK is scum for reasons I've covered more than enough. I think that if Charter is scum, either him or GNK is SK. I think Animo may be scum. I think OP is town.

I've already made my stances as clear as I'm going to be able to.

[Kmd4390]

When did I say I wasn't willing to lynch him? No, he wouldn't be my top choice. That's GNK. It doesn't look like we are going to get the analysis I asked for, so I guess an Animo lynch is ok.

[Kmd4390]

Then, yes, I'd be willing to lynch Animo.

[Kmd4390]

He's L-1. Actions speak louder than words, kmd.

Also:

Hey, my opinions aren't changing

Frightfully similar to Charter's post that upset me last page. How can you play a game like this and not allow for your opinions to change?

I'll hammer if I feel everything has been discussed. Right now, I'd be leaving a few things unanswered and ending discussion.

I didn't mean that I won't allow for change. I just mean they haven't changed at this point.

[Kmd4390]

Actually, I'll call dibs on the hammer.

[Kmd4390]

Well, I was mainly hoping for that analysis post from Animo, and a claim. He's posted without any analysis since I asked for it. His claim is probably what a SK would claim. Mafia may or may not claim that. I don't think he is a vig. And, by dibs, I meant I wanted to do this:

Vote Animorph

[Kmd4390]

Ok, that's a pretty townie reaction from Plum.

[Kmd4390]

Still thinking GnK is scum.

[Kmd4390]

Animorph, were you scum?

[Kmd4390]

lulz. You lynched a town based on the fact I didn't post.

No I didn't. I never unvoted GnK.

Plum is likely town. Animo is town. Kiro might be scum. I think GnK is scum. I'm leaving my vote on GnK.

[Kmd4390]

Quite honestly, I'm pissed that the vote counted. I never unvoted, so it shouldn't have been a hammer. I'll understand if I am lynched over it. I thought for sure I'd be vidged last night.

But anyway, based on reactions to the fake hammer that ended up counting, I think GnK and Kiro are scum.

Vote GnK

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a short day, but my opinions are clear, which is always my ultimate goal.

[Kmd4390]

I see no problems claiming night actions. If two people claim vig, we have a 50% chance of catching scum in it.

[Kmd4390]

Nameless, I wanted to fake hammer for reactions. I screwed up. Not much more I can say.

Plum, yes I screwed up. I've never seen unvotes not be needed. I didn't check because I didn't think it was a possibility.

Plum again, what is the problem with my scenario? 50% is great odds in mafia.

[Kmd4390]

If I answered in that context, I'd be lying. I wanted to fake hammer for reactions. No one will believe a case coming from me right now, so I have no reason to make one.

[Kmd4390]

Ok. I'm as good as lynched anyway.

Vote Kmd4390

For the record, the hammer

was

actually supposed to be a fake hammer on Anim. I didn't lie about that.

[Kmd4390]

UNVOTE

Too late. Nameless, Plum, Gnk, Wall-E, Kmd.

5 votes to lynch.

[Kmd4390]

GnKoichi, Serial Killer, Killed in End Game

I knew it.

Good game all.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, forgot to mention. Loved how everyone tried to make scum connections and list possible teams on Day 1.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, forgot to mention. Loved how everyone tried to make scum connections and list possible teams on Day 1.

grumble grumble murmer

It's helpful to scum when town tries to make connections before anyone has flipped. Easy to throw some more out there and "speculate" on what others have said.