Open 99: Mayo Clinic (Game Over!) before 703

[charter]

vote nameless

Guys, I found the first scum. Being serious here.

[charter]

Oh, and I was trying to think of if there's a way to break the game. Normally in games with mainly doctors there is, so I'll probably be proposing something soon. Don't hate me for it, just tell me if I'm crazy or if it could work.

[charter]

Ehhh, like quack mafia can be broke by forming a ring and everyone protecting the person who's name is below them. Here I was thinking kind of the same thing, but I don't think we have enough doctors for it to work. Plus I don't think risking losing the vigs is worth it either. It looks like we might actually have to scumhunt.

@MK, is that vote serious?

[charter]

Yeah, I'm not advocating my idea anymore. Once I thought about it for a few minutes, I realized it's probably not going to work.

[charter]

Actually, would the vigs claiming be all that bad? If two of them claim, then we know that they are confirmed town. If three claim, one is either the SK or scum, and two are real, if four claim, we'll be doing pretty good. Five, not going to happen.

The only problem I see with this is protecting them at night. We can tell two people to protect a vig, if a vig dies, we then know a doctor is lying. It also could be useful so that they can both target the same person, that way the mafia doc cannot protect that scum member.

[charter]

Yeah, and I also just thought what if the SK and scum target the same vig one night. It would condemn a possible doctor as well.

[charter]

Hypothetical

No, but say we assign myself to protect Wall-E (who is one of two claimed vigs). I'm a doctor, but I'm the only one who is protecting Wall-E. Scum and SK try and kill Wall-E. Now we're down a vig and I'm the obvlynch for the next day.

/Hypothetical

[charter]

What's this idea with rotating protection? We could try it for this round at least. If people claim vig and we get three or four, that's still enough to keep them protected, even double protect two without having to out doctors (if all doctors focus on those four, they'll be protected with some natural overlap). Though I guess the flaw here is that also outs the doctors as easy targets that night. There's really no way to do this yet, is there?

It's not going to work I don't think. Just guessing here, but it would out about three players as 'not doctor'. Two of them will be pro town vigs, so I don't think it will help that much.

I'm in agreement that we shouldn't claim now, unless someone actually shows (with numbers) that it will be helpful. Else I say we wait.

Also, I think we should set a claim order for tomorrow, today, and then stick to it tomorrow. Anyone that messes up will be highly suspect.

[charter]

All a massclaim will do right now is out the two vigs, and possibly the SK or a scum. I can see both sides to it. If two people claim, and everyone else says they are not a vig, then we have two confirmed innocents, which will be nice. More than likely, in this scenario, I see all the doctors protecting these two, and we essentially let them decide a large portion of the game.

Another point of note. I think it might be very likely we go a few nights with no kills without the massclaim, which seems like pushing the game towards nightless, which is much better for the town.

[charter]

What are we agreeing to? That by not claiming for a few night, we're likely to keep night deaths low? That makes sense if I'm reading it right.

That is my thinking on it.

On a side note, who's for lynching Plum if he doesn't say something soon?

Is this serious?

[charter]

I thought about no lynch, but in all honesty, I don't think it's the right option. I would be suprised if we have a kill tonight, so no lynch would put us right back where we are now (in all likelyhood).

[charter]

Maybe charter wants to avoid a No Lynch since a lynch would mean the likelihood of us killing one of our own docs (50% chance of this happening).

FoS: charter

.

This is quite possibly the poorest logic I have ever heard in a mafia game.

Also, I know I'm drawing a lot of suspicion myself by talking this much. Just trying to see how people reacted to different things (who would jump on a two-vote first to make it a three vote [also charter] and how people react to being voted for). Since I'm advocating a No Lynch now, there's not much point in testing the water any more.

Trying to wiggle his way out.
The fact that I was the third vote on someone in the RVS? At least make your stretches plausible...

I love Wall-E. Thank you for making this game enjoyable for me.

No Lynch on Day 1? That is NEVER a good move.

I can still see some (well, one) scenarios happening today that would make no lynch (in my opinion) the best option for today. Open setups like this, no lynch is at least discussable.

Not entirely true. I hope you will see for yourself why.

Yes entirely true, assuming town does not lie about their role (which on day one is HORRIBLE town play).

And the idea that I would have to blame my No Lynch idea on charter in order to say he was misleading is not anything approaching logic. I do blame him for making a misleading post aimed at the group, and that this played into my own idea for a No Lynch, but I don't think that was his intention, so I don't blame him for that. I still blame him for making a post that was misleading in other ways (for the third time, saying that there would be no night kills, when there will be many).

If charter turns out to be scum, Kmd is likely a partner.

No, and no.

My other thoughts. GK and Kiro are scum. Wall-E is hilarious. I am not in favor of doctors not protecting tonight, and I will be protecting who I think is town, I hope they return the favor. People defending their night choices tomorrow will be an excellent trap for scum to slip up in. It works quite nicely actually. Newbie defense does not work in non Newbie games.

vote GnKoichi

For his really really poor explaining how I was "misleading the town" and I don't much like how he's responded to questioning. And so many other reasons...

[charter]

I already said it. I don't think we're going to have many, if any. I obviously don't have evidence, it's my opinion.

[charter]

I haven't seen anything that shows what number of deaths are likely. I'm scum because you can't read.

[charter]

I saw your 'stats'. They aren't right.

[charter]

First off, you assume that all kills and protections are random. That's completely not true. IF ANYONE tomorrow says "I picked so and so because my dice told me to", I will consider you scum.

Second, all your 'stats' are are just YOUR opinion. I saw no (actual) numbers that went with it.

I haven't been misleading, you're pulling that out of your ass. If you think it was misleading, you are simply lying to try and lynch me for no reason. Anyone that thinks it is misleading is clearly trying to do the same. It was my thoughts or opinions on matter. I was stating what I thought was LIKELY to happen. I wasn't trying to convince anybody of anything by saying I think it's unlikely to have any deaths tonight, I was stating my OPINION on the matter. Mafia is not a logic puzzle that can be solved by just running equations and crunching numbers.

[charter]

I ignore votes put on me with bad or non existant reasoning, hence why I never said anything about Wall-E's.

I've been suspicious of omni and charter for some time now. Now that omni has forced my hand, relieving the pressure on charter, I'm opening this can of worms.

charter and omni have been buddy-buddy scumfriends all day. Viewing their posts in isolation, they double-team people, defend themselves, and for the space of one post omni even pretended to attack charter.

SUPRISE scumlords!

While I am honored to be called a 'scumlord', sadly I am not scum in this game.
However, who have we doubtle teamed? GK? Don't think we're the only two doing that. Kiro? I believe all I've said about him is that he is scum. Hardly something to get excited over just yet. I will elaborate later. We've defended ourselves? What are we supposed to do, just take the onslaught of terrible logic being hurled around here like a baby fighting Tyson? I guess if you've decided some attacks are just 'for pretend' I can't really argue against that.

@Nameless, are you saying dice will be adequate justification for your actions tomorrow? I have a strong town read on two people (at that point it was just one) so I was hoping I could get some protection back from them. I obviously don't know if they are a doc or vig (or even town at all), but then again, no one knows that about me either. I don't see the harm in claiming doctor. Everyone can claim that, doesn't mean a thing.

Add to things GK has done that is scummy: Setting up lynches, and a post humus 'I told ya so'.

[charter]

What are we supposed to do, just take the onslaught of terrible logic being hurled around here like a baby fighting Tyson?

[charter]

I really hope you plan on answering my question too, Charter. And explaining why you'll consider GK scum if somebody ELSE claims they randomly protected.

I'm a doc, sure.
I will consider anyone scum that says the randomly acted last night. I think you misheard me about GK being scum. Whoever says they randomly acted I will view as scum.

[charter]

I was asked. I have a habit of lying as town. Is charter actually a doc? Only time will tell.

[charter]

Your pressure is worthless. Only you and Wall-E thinks it has any merit. The fact that you're still going on about it will get you lynched. Wall-E, there is not something scummy in every single one of my posts. The fact that you've found that, shows me that you're actually just trying to get me lynched for any reason you can invent.

[charter]

If you want I can point you to games where I've lied as town. Hey, I even won some of them for town too.

[charter]

I know how this will sound after my lying speech, but I've always wanted to be SK. Never been one.
Imma read up later today.

[charter]

As for charter, he still hasn't explained why I'm scum.

There was some scumminess from you a while back, mostly involving GK, so its mostly you and him being scumbuddies. No need to get worked up right now.

HYPOTHETICAL
Tonight comes, I have one Doc protect to use and two players at the top of my town list who are, for all intents and purposes equally town in my view, and therefore deserving of my protect. I tak the situation into account and WIFOM-muse to myself for a bit, but come to the conclusion that they're each about as likely to benefit from my protect. I flip a coin. Do you consider me scum?
/HYPOTHETICAL

No. You're protecting who you think is town, not randomly.

@Plum: Except I know I'm town, and the rest of my case points strongly at charter and Nameless as scum, imo.

I hope everyone else sees why this nullifies what Wall-E says (and go check your role pm again Wall-E).

No. Playing poorly in the past is not an excuse for dubious actions now.

I actually think I'm playing pretty well this game.

I'm a hypocrite[/b]
So that means that you're scum too then. I don't think I've seen a clearer confession than this.

They wagoned Kiro together, Nameless for lurking, charter for policy something I can't recall. I'll check back after I post.

I'd also like to note how charter pre-empted my case by bringing this up. Guilty conscience. He knew I'd include this, yet I never alluded to my intent to do so. Do you deny that?

Nameless comes to charter's rescue, a white knight attacking my attack as if charter needed to defend against a nearly baseless vote. "Lol pwnd by the Noob." or something, right? I forget now.

I've said Kiro is scum, twice I believe. If that little is wagoning, then yeah, I'm guilty. How is that scummy?
What is 'this' that I pre empted? I don't even know what you're talking about.
Yeah, I don't even know why I'm defending against this post. It's roughly the same caliber.

Upon review of your defense, it's ad hom. and bewildered sarcasm with very little content. I think you failed to address several of my important bits. The only things I was willing to demand you do in self-defense was answer/address the bolded bits of the attack, so you're off the hook for now. Suffice to say, charter's my pick at the moment.

Nameless uses ad hom (not really ad hom I suppose, but a very abrasive posting) as town. Null tell. Not to mention, his points are actually valid, and you are trying to dismiss his refuting your terrible case by saying he's just ad homing. This is scummy because you're trying to hope everyone forgets about it? I don't know, but you need to provide the quotes for your case like he asked.

Voting: Charter for misleading posts regarding night kills and trying to defend himself with his own history of lying.
Suspicions: Kmd for taking quotes out of context. Kiro for suggesting doctors not protect.

You've been told by half the town that my posts are not misleading. TAKE THE HINT, THEY WERE NOT MISLEADING!

I did not defend myself by saying I lie as town. You didn't even let me answer your 'what was the point of saying you lie as town, charter?' question. WHY DOES YOUR REASON FOR VOTING ME KEEP CHANGING EVERY TIME YOU POST?

Seriously, how is GK still alive? All he's said this game is: Charter placed a third vote on someone in the RVS (not scummy), I tried to mislead the town (not true, just threw my OPINIONS out there), and recently that I've defended myself by saying I lie as town (also not true).

but I'm voting for [charter] now because of the way he's defended his bad ideas. He gives no legitimate reasons for believing what he does.

Wait, looks like he's switched the reason again. I dont know how many times I can say this. I believe what I do because it's my OPINION.

Plum: That's all fine. I'm willing to die for this cause, if I must.

Good, I'm willing to kill for slews of lies and horrible logic.

However, it is time for Stef, TM, and OP to post. There are three people who I would NOT mind voting for right now.

[charter]

unvote, vote Wall-E

[charter]

You don't even have a case.

[charter]

I really want the lurkers to start participating more. I'm getting the feeling that all the scum are among them as the townies pick themselves apart...

[charter]

That's nowhere near a comprehensive list there...
Stef? MK? Prolly forgetting someone else too (nothing personal).

[charter]

No, but pushing a case and then giving up when questioned about it is a very strong scumtell.

[charter]

unvote, vote OP

[charter]

unvote, vote GK

Calling this now, GK is scum and Wall-E is not.

[charter]

unvote, vote GK

Calling this now, GK is scum and Wall-E is not.

This is the part where you explain why.

Why I voted for GK? I've given plenty of reasons to vote for him. Why I think GK is scum and Wall-E is not? Just a feeling, obviously I don't know.

Wall-E: I assume you're referring to me. Charter is the one who hasn't given reasons for his last two votes. My reasons were made extremely clear in posts 285 & 289. They're on this page. They may not have been lengthy arguments. They were concise. Pretending they aren't there isn't helping yours or Charter's case.

Cute. So Wall-E feebly questions GK, and his immediate response is 'you should be looking at charter! He voted but didn't post his reasons, look at charter! Not me!'

unvote, vote GK

Calling this now, GK is scum and Wall-E is not.

I agree with Nameless that I'd like an explaination of this, and personally find votes without decent cases scummy.

Are you guys kidding me?!?!? My vote was on GK for the longest time. The reasons for voting him then are still valid now and are more than enough to lynch. Plus, if you can not see the avalanche of terrible logic and scumminess radiating from GK then you are in need of help, but fear not, for say the word and I will cite it for you.

My vote on OP was because he popped in to do literally nothing but jump on the largest wagon. I hoped that by voting him (and not giving any reasons) he would say something more or get more active.

Wall-E's 299 is correct. Coincidence.

[charter]

I mean that OP has said NOTHING about ANYTHING. I could care less the reasons that he gave (or didn't give) for voting Wall-E. The fact was that he comes out of lurking to do nothing but vote Wall-E. Gives no opinions on anyone else. I've said plenty about other people.

[charter]

Charter: So your first thought is to vote for him? You didn't even try to ask him. At least when I gave my vote to shake up Wall-E (a similar reason) I tried talking to him first. And what's your reasoning for suddenly finding Wall-E a townie just as everyone else begins to think otherwise? You've done nothing to actually defend my accusation; you've just made weak excuses.

Don't even try and equate these two situations. They are totally different. Don't try and glorify your actions either, they've been terrible this game to say the least.
Wall-E has been anything but a lurker, OP has been nothing but a lurker. And my reason for finding Wall-E town is that you and him are not scumbuddies, which leaves you. Go ahead and call me out for just stating it, I'm not going to tell how I know this right now, and don't even try and push the "charter must know cause he's scum" crap. I'm actually getting really fed up with this game and a lot of the people letting you off the hook despite the mountain of evidence pointing towards you being scum.

Kmd, make all the theories you want, that's fine with me. From the one you just posted there, GK is the lynch that makes the most sense today, yes?

[charter]

Oh, thought it was on Wall-E, my bad.

[charter]

I dont get how you think Wall-E is scum, but OP is just sitting back watching me and GK tear each other apart while OP is voting for Wall-E.

If anything I'd think animorph is the lurking scumbuddy, because he clearly didn't read my explanation and just quotes GK to make him look better.

[charter]

I'm just looking for clarification.

[charter]

Also, day one is now on its 14th freaking page. I'm not saying rush, but lets try and wrap up day one.

Also, I want to post my suspicions of who the scum and SK are. Sooo tempting (not gonna do it now cause I don't want to open a whole new can of worms).

[charter]

Kiro, sure you want to do that? There's still room left in GK's scumtriangle for you... [/sarcasm]

[charter]

I mean that GK has room left in the people he thinks is scum...
English charter, english...

[charter]

Charter, did you knowingly claim scum?

No.

AND CHARTER STILL hasn't been able to justify that post. He's just pretending it never happened, because he has no excuse for how badly he played that bluff. He says he's got a suspicion on who's the real scum that borders on proof (using the word "know" twice), but he refuses to post it. He's as bad as Tony in terms of actual content. Charter may post more often, but he's added about as much real scumhunting to the game.

Dude, I posted last like a day ago, chill out. I have a life. Why compare me only to Tony?

(although, feel free to ignore GK's nonargument, I know I would Rolling Eyes).

Good call.

I'd like to see him cough up his idea of who scum are.

Really? Pretty sure I've said GK and given reasons. I've said I think you are too, but I don't have time to make a giant case against you now.

[charter]

318- Obviously I'm overstating.
329- Scum: GK, Kiro, animorph. SK: Kmd.

[charter]

No, that's what I freaking said in 329.

[charter]

you might as well vote me out.

[charter]

AND CHARTER STILL hasn't been able to justify that post. He's just pretending it never happened, because he has no excuse for how badly he played that bluff. He says he's got a suspicion on who's the real scum that borders on proof (using the word "know" twice), but he refuses to post it. He's as bad as Tony in terms of actual content. Charter may post more often, but he's added about as much real scumhunting to the game.

Dude, I posted last like a day ago, chill out. I have a life.

Why compare me only to Tony?

[charter]

See, this is why I didn't want to state my suspicions. Now I have to defend them. They're my guesses. What makes you SK? I think you're playing like a SK. I don't have time to do four cases at once, not sure I even have time to do two. That's why I'm just focusing on GK, if someone (by divine intervention) overtakes him as scummiest, I'll have to put more effort in I suppose, but until then, fine with the GK lynch.

[charter]

I didn't want to because I don't have time. Seriously, you can't take everything I say and try and spin it.

[charter]

I'm not trying to act on my other suspicions.

[charter]

I can post a whole slew of games where I overstate, so it's a null tell.

except that's the EXACT reason he gave for taking his vote off of Wall-E "I know who the scum team is, and Wall-E isn't on it".

Yet another overstatement by me.

I think the problem here is why would charter mention suspicions or knowledge without stating what they are? Why not just keep quiet?

I now want to hear what charter's reason for being so sure I'm town are.

Good question, I am now kicking myself for my 'want to post my suspicions' post. I'm really not that sure that you're town, it was another overstatement.

GK, can you tell me how those lies benefit scum more than town?

[charter]

Whatever, if you guys actually lynch me you're incredibly dumb. It doesn't benefit me if I'm scum either. I stand by my guesses on who's scum. Don't listen to anything GK says.

[charter]

I swear, if ANYONE protects a lurker if you guys claim tomorrow, they are scum. I'm a fine lynch for today, I'm not a vig. Maybe y'all will learn not to just blindly take other's words for scummy actions and think for yourselves. Any smart person could see that me lying about being lazy isn't a scum tell.
People I would kill tonight, in order (GK, OP, Tony)
GK's head is on so backwards, keeping him alive regardless of role will be detrimental.
OP and Tony, both lurk horribly, and are slightly more scummy than Stef in my opinion.

[charter]

That was who I would kill if it were up to me, not who I find scummiest. And yes, a confirmed townie stating their opinions can be helpful to a vig. Obviously they shouldn't blindly follow me, but if they're torn between vigging two different people and one is on my list of people to vig, maybe they'll go with that person.

I generally give up when I can see the writing on the wall, don't really care to 'defend' myself, I always end up making myself look scummier, so not worth the trouble in delaying the inevitable.

[charter]

Yeah, pretty sure GK is scum by the arguments he is trying to make (as well as ones he tried to push earlier).

I'm sure I missed questions, I'll get to them later.

Mana is being prodded again.

[charter]

You know charter.. regarding you being lazy.. if you're gonna cast suspicion on some1 you'd better give some reasons from now on. I don't care how lazy you are, i don't care if you have time. Don't just say "x is scummy, y is scummy, z is scummier" and then leave it hanging. If you don't explain them they are worthless at best since nobody can base anything on your suspicions.. well.. except maybe suspicion on you.

Ironic coming from lurkerscum. At least I post suspicions so people know where I stand.

I think animorph and GK are scumbuddies, but GK is definately the better lynch today.

GnK still hasn't given up trying to defend himself, but you seem to have. GnK will be vetted more assuming he makes it to Day 2, but if you already decided not to give yourself that chance, then you're about ready to be lynched.

I'm fine with being lynched, I'm not a vig, and I'm not convincing anyone of GK so I don't see what help I can further be to the town. Maybe protect a townie tonight, but that's just about everyone.

[charter]

@Charter: Lurkerscum? So now you think i am scum as well?

I'm saying in antifa you lurked your way to a win along with the whole scumteam. You're not very active in this game either.

You wouldn't kill who you found scummiest? Or, what do you mean by this?

I'd kill of those people. I think they are scummy (not the scummiest except in GK's case) and lurk so bad, if they are scum, they'd get a free ride to a victory.

[charter]

Stef, there is no debating that you lurked, whether on purpose or not, in that other game. Here, you have very few posts with any content, and only a handful more than one or two lines. That's what we call 'active lurking'. And we call refusing to move votes 'scummy'.

[charter]

Kmd and Nameless, did Stef lurk in antifa?

We is the generally mafia community.

[charter]

Charter, just a suggestion, why don't you stick to evidence within the game we're playing. Even if you convinced everyone that Stef has lurked in the past, it wouldn't make me change my mind about how he's playing this game. Just like you saying you've lied before hasn't made anyone forgive you for lying now. And to claim that certain people within this game represent "the general mafia community" and others don't is extremely elitist.

You don't think it's relevant to know how players in this game have acted as scum recently? Really? More important than a resemblance in his playing styles, I find his reaction to my posts. He perceived it as an attack against him and promptly voted me, and really doesn't give a good reason for voting me. "You are just pointing fingers and telling people what to do." he says. Where is GK is his assessment? It is impossible to leave you, GK, out of a group that is "telling people what to do". Regardless, I don't even see how telling people what to do is scummy, it's more of the fact that he attacks only me, not everyone who does this.
His reasons for voting me are not fresh, they come only after he perceives himself being attacked (or alternate theory after my wagon has gained plenty of steam and I've nearly given up anyway).

I don't get why you think I said some people in here represent the general mafia community and the rest of that. Replace 'we' in 462 with 'the general mafia community'.

Finally, how do you justify having a scum list seven players long?

You show me quotes of my posts showing where I have said I think seven different people are scum (ones where I've said later I don't think they're scum don't count either. They're obviously not on my 'scum list'.) and then I'll justify it.

[charter]

And not where I said, so and so is scummy, or I would kill this person. Those aren't the same as me thinking someone is scum.

[charter]

Because I find someone scummy does not mean I think they are scum. Obviously this is true because I often find more than three people scummy in a mini when there are only three scum.

Show me where I've said seven people are SCUM, not SCUMMY, as I just said a few minutes ago.

[charter]

GK, I explained all this a while ago, why do you only read the posts of mine you can spin against me?

I hope you still plan on showing me where I said seven people were scum. It'd be a shame if you got caught in a lie. By your logic, you'd need to get lynched.

[charter]

And to answer yours, you called Stef "lurkerscum" in post #445 and said that OP and Tony are scummier than Stef in one of the quotes from you I just gave. If Stef is scum, than anyone scummier than him must also be scum, right?

Good lord. Stop trying to interpret what I say, you've done it wrong the entire game. Stef was lurkerscum in antifa. I only said he's not posting much in this game.

No, I don't think OP, Tony, and stef are scum. You've kept dodging my request for where I said seven people were scum. You used this against me, so you now need to back it up. If you can't, then you've lied, and you need to lynch yourself.

[charter]

GK, not going to respond to you anymore until you show me where I said seven different people are scum. I've asked you several times to prove your claims and you just keep ignoring me, so I'll return the favor.

[charter]

No, you showed me saying some people I find scummy. Not the seven that you say I think are scum.

[charter]

Hammer me, I'm done.

Scum GK, and animorph, I can guarentee it.

Good luck town.

[charter]

Actually, First I'd kill GK tonight, then Tony. Go back and look at the beginning of the day how he seemed pretty eager to play with his simulations and whatnot, and then doesn't do a damn thing. Tony could be the third one.

I forgot why I was supicious of Kiro, but it was mostly to see what reactions would be drawn, I think it had to do with a few posts closely tied to WallE or GK around the time I thought WallE was scum. Kiro acted like town would. If I said I was suspicious of Kiro after that, it was a lie cause I didn't want to have to explain my flip flop, then explain why I said it in the first place, the whole time GK would be relentless in making shit up about me in his undying quest to get me lynched (which the entire time, has been based on absolute bullshit) and I'd just come out looking even worse. Also, at least two scum are on my wagon, it's built off nothing, so that means there's some scum (or SK) on it.

Still going with Kmd for SK.
Ok, now I'm done.

[charter]

And one more thing. Tony has made ten, count them TEN posts this entire game. I definately wouldn't let him live tonight.

[charter]

charter, why are you sounding so beaten?

I can't convince anyone of GK, and I'm much less sure of anyone else, so no point in me staying in the game, I'll either be a wasted vig target tonight, or more pointless discussion in later days. If town doesn't want to lynch scum today, I'm probably the best alternative. Though, for the life of me, I cannot understand how his horrible arguments and attacks did not end with his lynch. It's actually remarkable.

For the record, I don't think Kmd is scum, I very clearly think he is the SK.

WallE, I have no doubts that town can win this game. Just because you're a dead townie doesn't mean you don't win with the town...

[charter]

How am I even supposed to defend myself? I lied, and that's the reason why (I think) everyone is voting for me. I've said that it shouldn't matter as there's really no benefit in me doing it as scum, but will anyone listen to me anymore? Nooooooooo. What the hell are you expecting me to do?

[charter]

I lied because I was lazy and didn't want to make big cases on people. If anything town is more lazy than scum. It would be pointless for scum to admit to lying as easily as I did, they would have tried to weasel their way out. Of course all this is WIFOM, but I think if you guys actually use your brains you'll realize it's true.

GK is my biggest suspect. He's been pushing his horrid logic all day, doesn't respond to accusations logically, just comes back with more attacks. I really don't know what more you want me to say about GK, I can't see how everyone doesn't think he's scum.

[charter]

Also, GK's claim of my 'seven scum theory' as he likes to call it is ridiculous, and townies do it too. I am refuting it because I believe it's untrue and he's using it against me. I'm not going to respond to whatever GK comes up in response to this though.

[charter]

Then freaking lynch me already.

[charter]

Hmm ... I'm going to go with Tony / GK / Wall-E scumteam. Some of Wall-E and GK's interaction seems off (closeness earlier on, prompting by GK to Wall-e, the whole "wake up" vote thing) and Wall-E could be seen buddying with lurker OP (I mentioned the exchange above). Don't know about the SK, there's too many other mildly suspicious players.

I'd actually say Tony, GK, animorph. Regardless, GK is a fine lynch for today.

[charter]

I don't really care if I'm believed or not. I see two options for day one. I get lynched or GK gets lynched. Either way I'm happy, I would just prefer it happen sooner rather than later. This is the longest and dumbest day one I've been a part of in a long time.

And I said I think people are scum, GK. You don't always have to have a nice post detailing why you think someone is scum. I have my own opinions about people that aren't formed from concrete stuff.

[charter]

By the end of day two, I want all these people dead, assuming no major changes. This is the order I'd prefer.

GK, animorph, Tony, maybe OP/Kmd. If for some reason there are more than two anti town people left, I will be astonished.

[charter]

You didn't luck out. You had scum tunnel vision.

[charter]

Currently debating if GK or animorph deserves my vote.

[charter]

Charter, remember 12 Angry Men Mafia, where I was lurking, and voted for you, and then I was quickly lynched because of it in the span of an hour or less? I was town then, and now the same thing is happening. This is so annoying. I am a doctor. All the basis for the early suspicion on me has no merit anymore, because the moment I try to help, I get lynched because of it. I am probably just digging myself in a bigger whole, but this is what the scum were hoping for. Good job GnK. Or Wall-E.

I don't even think charter is scum anymore. =/ I think he and Plum are town, but I totally expect charter to vote me..if he gets a chance. Just like 12 Angry Men, remember? Ugh.

Yes, I remember, I was about to mention that. However, you acted extremely scummy and the lynch was justified. It's basically the same case here.

Still think it's GK.

[charter]

Stef, would you let me know what posts you want me to respond to? I'll get right on it.

[charter]

I'd wager OP is town.

[charter]

I'd wager OP is town.

That's nice. Care to tell us

why

?

Because he did literally the exact same thing in 12 angry men. Said something really scummy (post 585 in this game) and was lynched in one page. I face a dilemma in that I don't think this is a scumtell for him, but we can't let him off the hook for it either.
Wall-E and GK's and Plum's immediate votes on him after 585 are very similar to the way he piled on votes in 12 angry men.

[charter]

Kmd didn't misquote anything, GK changed his story. Again.
GK is still scum, and a fantastic lynch for today.

[charter]

Come to think of it, let's add Charter and Kmd to the list of Tony and Ani. What do you think about OP's recent posts?

Sorry, for some reason I didn't realize this was directed towards me. I'm definately not impressed by them, and he did literally the exact same thing in another game I was in with him, so it isn't really a scum tell to me, and certainly not enough to put him over you or even animorph.

GK is still scum, and a fantastic lynch for today.

Why?

Be very specific and succinct, please. A citation wouldn't hurt. I think attacking him now that he's backed off would normally be a great idea, but in this case he went WAY overboard and it was a HUGE town tell, imo.

For his pushing terrible cases and his ties to animorph, who I would wager is scum as well.

GK is still scum, and a fantastic lynch for today.

Why?

Be very specific and succinct, please. A citation wouldn't hurt. I think attacking him now that he's backed off would normally be a great idea, but in this case he went WAY overboard and it was a HUGE town tell, imo.

I agree. Something is weird. Maybe it's just me, or the kmd- Gnk thing, but tsomething's not right.

Yeah, I don't think animorph has said anything except stating his suspicion of me (of which he's done a subpar job of) or questioning me when I say GK is scum. He never did it when I said anyone else was scum, or said Wall-E was town, just when I say GK is scum.

[charter]

Stef, who do you think are animorph's partners?

[charter]

Holy crap. Good catch OP. There could be room in animorph+GK for stef yet.

Everyone voting animorph, why him (actively unhelpful) over GK (actively scummy)? I mean, I think they're partners, but GK has just been much scummier than animorph in my opinion.

[charter]

I wasn't serious...

Was that the hammer?

And GK, theres more than OP did the same in another game. It's that you've been horribly scummy, and horribly tied to animorph, who's also been horribly scummy. OP has just been scummy.

[charter]

Nevermind, I counted and got four votes on animorph. Sorry for my fearmongering.

[charter]

@GK, what do you think of Wall-E?

[charter]

And welcome EK, I don't even know who edward was, or who he replaced... Very sad.

[charter]

I don't really see the need to debate GK being lynched. He needs to, there's really no other side of it. Look at what he's doing now. It's almost the same thing as me saying I lied, he's admitting to playing scummily. By his own logic he should be lynched. I've said that phrase about him too many times to count now...

[charter]

I don't believe in that logic. I'm pointing out that he's applying it to me, but it doesn't hold try to himself.

Obviously I truly think GK is scum.

What do you think, Charter, about Wall-E and about Ani?

I think ani is your scumbuddy and Wall-E is more likely town than scum.

[charter]

That's a blatent lie.

I think animorph is your scumbuddy based on how he applies situations to you differently than others. Wall-E I don't think is scum with you and animorph. Seriously, I've said this plenty of times and explained it several times as well.

[charter]

Statements like that won't help your case.

I've already explained how you apply your logic differently depending on who is under question in similar circumstances.

[charter]

So now that you mention that I think you two are scum, it doesn't seem that far-fetched. Scum do it all the time. Even though it seems as if you didn't know there was a term for it, you could have just as well have been bussing, thinking that you would look good for being on your partner's wagon. Then again, anyone voting anyone can be bussing, so you can't really use bussing as an argument if you're not sure if someone is scum or not. Not effectively. Just spec.

I could get behind an OP lynch cause of this.

I don't like EK.

Fucking hell. You feel compelled to hammer animoph right after a claim before anyone says anything about it? If you're alive tomorrow (best not be the case), you take over GK's spot of needing to be lynched.

[charter]

lulz. You lynched a town based on the fact I didn't post.

No I didn't. I never unvoted GnK.

Plum is likely town. Animo is town. Kiro might be scum. I think GnK is scum. I'm leaving my vote on GnK.

That's completely retarded, not in the spirit of the game, and never works anyway.

[charter]

kmd, explain.

[charter]

Kmd, that excuse is horrible. As was pointed out, this exact situation happened earlier.

I think massclaiming our protections is a good idea. There's only one pro town person that will be lying and I think it entirely possible to catch mafia slipping up in this.

I have no problem claiming first if there is more support for the claim.

Also, I think we should have the vig claim (maybe after everyone doc claims?). As today very well could be the last lynch we get.

[charter]

Oh, and when giving your vote for claim protections or not, best to keep it a short yes or no, and not elaborate any. I'll tell why after a decision has been reached if you don't follow me.

[charter]

Good game. I still think the wagon on animorph was dumb. Totally had GK and kmd switched.