Mini 2273: Science Diagrams That Look Like Shitposts 2 [END]

[Vivax]

Hi peeps. I'm new here.

Do you know each other and respective playstyles well?

[Vivax]

Hi peeps. I'm new here.

Do you know each other and respective playstyles well?

Not I. I haven't played here in about 2 years. I tend to play a few games and disappear for a few years at a time. Although I feeeel like I might've played with Not_Mafia before?

Do you have much mafia experience off-site, Vivax?

My intro might as well have been Hi I'm Vivax and I'm also an addict.
That was the answer about mafia experience, played this game since...2008?I think. On Teamliquid. It's a bit dead around there now.

Early impressions are you and Elsa seem quite motivated. Not_mafia looks like the type who always plays like mafia, unsurprisingly with that name.

[Vivax]

Gettin scum feels from George Bayleys series of posts as entrance.
Leaving it at that.

[Vivax]

Gettin scum feels from George Bayleys series of posts as entrance.
Leaving it at that.

May I enquire what gives you the scummy vibes? Also why not vote for George?

He deliberately split the posts (or in other words, spammed), that looks to me like he tried too hard to appear casual during his joke entrance.
I'm not willing to vote just for that early in the game. We've got time, and instant majority lynch.

[Vivax]

Gettin scum feels from George Bayleys series of posts as entrance.
Leaving it at that.

May I enquire what gives you the scummy vibes? Also why not vote for George?

He deliberately split the posts (or in other words, spammed), that looks to me like he tried too hard to appear casual during his joke entrance.
I'm not willing to vote just for that early in the game. We've got time, and instant majority lynch.

your reasons are very loose. It feels performative.

also, the L word is not allowed on this forum.

My reasons may be loose but they are useful, with a lucky long shot even right. Don't feel like pushing them now though.

Gettin scum feels from George Bayleys series of posts as entrance.
Leaving it at that.

May I enquire what gives you the scummy vibes? Also why not vote for George?

He deliberately split the posts (or in other words, spammed), that looks to me like he tried too hard to appear casual during his joke entrance.
I'm not willing to vote just for that early in the game. We've got time, and instant majority lynch.

I technically did the same thing. I often think of something extra to say after I've already posted something and end up double or triple posting (which I've already done this game, and is part of why my post count was easily #1 in MN2272) One of the fluff posts was baited by a fluff post of mine.

It feels like both a lazy reason and a reason that should include me given I played right into it.

I don't think you did the same thing at all. You replied to a question, then in the next post added something you remembered afterwards. That's not the same as trying hard to appear casual. If anything your intention was to be or appear cooperative.

That said, I think that you are too eager to draw parallels here and assume that Bayley doesn't deserve a finger of suspicion, so if that's Alexcellents reason to call you mafia (which I don't know but if I had one, that'd be it), I think that's a decent reason.

[Vivax]

I'm here, I'm keeping up on things but I've been busy lately also. I'm consciously trying to observe more and drive a little less this game than I have in previous ones while I shake the rust off.

Well. This is an awful apologetic self-conscious post considering the timing and that there's quite a bit to go with already. I'm surprised I got to point that out first.
Somehow you're consciously trying to observe more but you miss to comment on things that seem relevant to many others?

VOTE: Corwinoid

[Vivax]

I'm here, I'm keeping up on things but I've been busy lately also. I'm consciously trying to observe more and drive a little less this game than I have in previous ones while I shake the rust off.

Well. This is an awful apologetic self-conscious post considering the timing and that there's quite a bit to go with already. I'm surprised I got to point that out first.
Somehow you're consciously trying to observe more but you miss to comment on things that seem relevant to many others?

VOTE: Corwinoid

I found Corwinoid's whole observing more thing to be kinda null. Maybe not the most pro-town thing in the world but doesn't feel super scummy either.
Do you have thoughts on others in this game, Vivax? Thoughts on George changed at all from before?

Got a pool of players I think are townish, but that's not something I think is worth sharing early game as it might dissuade mafias from attacking them. But I think you can figure them out just by looking at who my persons of interest are and who is not.
Don't have a reason to get back to my impression on George either as I'm more interested into seeing how Corwinoid reacts to the vote, or others for that matter.

Ad corwinoid:
I'd expect someone who says (s)he's keeping up on things to deliver something and not follow it up with a time constraint claim. That reads like hidden guilt to me.

[Vivax]

Could use a bit more input from not_mafia. Gave me the impression he likes to laze off while being around a lot, but don't know if it's a mafia trait of him.

Otherwise clidd gives me slight mafia vibes. Bit too smooth of an entrance. More ruffle-some-hairs type of input would help to dissuade me.

I'll say I don't think Elsa is the droid many are looking for, but don't let me stop you from generating info.

Feeling good about my vote so far.

[Vivax]

@Eiralox if you thought it was a going nowhere question maybe you should pay attention more.

VOTE: geraintm

I dislike the not-so-subtle hint at not trusting D1 reads. I've seen people have some very good intuition in games very early on. The rest of your posts bother me also.

I don't think it's a good reason and it seems nitpicky. Overall geraintm doesn't give me the impression that his posts shy away from provoking a negative response, quite the opposite.

Thoughts on clidd?

[Vivax]

@ Geraintm

I know that your intent is not to generate a negative reaction, the point is that you don't try to post in a way that attempts to not make it happen.

Page 7 maybe worth pointing out we got Corwin and clidd going after geraintm in unison.

Which bothers me a bit since I felt like moving George back to clidds scum-guess slot until I saw what he posted there. Corwinoids saving grace could be his lack of experience or exercise, but I think I'll stick to my meta of going after scumreads with a sledgehammer.
Here's a treat for the thread.

Ok, I'm trying to understand if for some reason Gera is trying to provoke a reaction or something for ''?'' reasons.

Feeling that something is scummy/towny using guts is normal, but assigning a ''performative'' value to something you're not even sure is meaningful feels more like he's making things up.

Not that I think it makes a lot sense for scum!Gera to play this way, but I don't find the motivation for town!Gera either.

Well, on a second look, I'm fine with my vote.

If I were to draw my reads in real time, they'd look like this:

[

GoldfishFromTheMoon

] [

Crescent

] [

Eiralox

] [

Vivax

]
=
[

Elsa Jay

] [

Alexcellent

]
[

Corwinoidhis

]
[

Not_Mafia

] [

gibus

] [

UNOwen

] [

GeorgeBailey

]
=

[

geraintm

]

Assuming that post 158 was the prelude to him putting geraintm into the scum pile, maybe clidd could sufficiently explain what he left out that made geraint suddenly mafia and not null?

[Vivax]

While the meta-centric explanation from clidd regarding his decision to put geraintm into the scum pile leaves a sour aftertaste, I'll bite. Certainly would have helped to point that out immediately for its credibility. Noting that I didn't go and look up if the meta wasn't even valid. It's not an approach I use on players I don't know well.

What also helped me bite was that I saw another bit from George that wasn't very appealing:

A better way to have worded my post would have been "I am uncomfortable with the amount of people sitting on their votes and doing nothing, and find it to be suspicious". But also that just might be me being pigheaded about people not playing the way I expect.

Honestly at that point (I know I'm a little late on this)

I feel like the people who were voting are scum. I think scum would try and force themselves to get a read going.

because no one can get a good read on anyone day 1, and certainly not by post 40. shouting to the world you find someone scummy so early on just feels like getting something out there so you can show people later you had a read on them

I feel like we go through this everytime. (I was Vanya last game).

You can absolutely have good reads on Day 1. Datisi and I had NPOM (MonkeyMan) pinned as scum in a mini normal once because he was acting pretty strange. And even if your reads are wrong, pushing people and seeing how people react to being called scum is invaluable for future days.

Although the post did seem kinda weird to call me scummy for meming during RVS. I feel like RVS is the only time you can meme as a player and it doesn't affect the game.

Kind of liking Eiralox as town for this reason. Feels like a slight townslip if that's a thing.

I'd believe this if the account wasn't from 2016, but this feels like such an easy townslip to manufacture.

For one George is posthum justifying his vote on Alex, and additionally when he does that, he's talking about multiple people. There's been a bit of back and forth on whether to policy VOTE (almost used the l-word hnnnng) today or not, and Alex wasn't the only one supporting it. Moreover I'm sure anyone could be able to get a better read on Alex than just judging him for wanting to sus non-voters.
This post feels fluffy, lacks followup (who are 'the people who were voting' besides alex?). At worst it's a mafia post, at best George is being lazy.

Still keeping my vote on Corwin for now while appreciating that his posting volume is improving, the guilty entrance is not something I'll forget easily though.

Gibus and not_maf are my blind spots. Maybe mafia, maybe not. Some people's metas are just permanently low-info like that, makes it easier for them. I'd be open to a policy vote as well if I don't see improvement.

[Vivax]

So basically just ignore his existence and hope he's town.

Never been sure why that kind of player even bothers to sign up.

You could say that it tips the scale a bit in favour of mafia. And it allows them to play scum with low effort.
It‘s sort of acceptable imo as long as the voting is towards win con and it‘s few playing like that.

I‘ll probs change my vote to GB later on.

[Vivax]

Good morning.

UNVOTE: Corwinoid
VOTE: GeorgeBailey

Almost voted not_mafia, but it'd be more useful to keep him around as pet troll for now.
If he really triggers that many people to the point it's all I can read about, I'll reconsider.

Corwin/George looks like a good combo still.

[Vivax]

Is there really a chance he's jester?

Eiralox I think you took his bait hook line and sinker. I wouldn't assume there's any meaning behind that list.

[Vivax]

Mafias just need to play better than the worst looking players in town.

Where would you look if you didn't have to look at NM or gibus, for now?

[Vivax]

@ Eiralox

Good morning.

UNVOTE: Corwinoid
VOTE: GeorgeBailey

Almost voted not_mafia, but it'd be more useful to keep him around as pet troll for now.
If he really triggers that many people to the point it's all I can read about, I'll reconsider.

Corwin/George looks like a good combo still.

[Vivax]

Gibus ISO doesn't even look bad to me anyways. Just less...judgmental and more silent. Playing around a bit at the entrance with his copy of Elsa. I like where UNOwens vote is.

[Vivax]

My one take from Goldfish ISO is they've occasionally defended other players but there's a vote on NM and nothing even resembling a scumread on anyone in there.

In the "needs to do more" pile as a result.

There's this, where you = Alex as he was replying to him.

As for you/elsa, I think I coukd find reasons to scumread you both, I'm not going to take a side at this point.

His posts seem laid back/relaxed mostly, that looked townie to me so far.

[Vivax]

EBWOP

Her posts seem laid back/relaxed mostly, that looked townie to me so far.

[Vivax]

Won't say who yet but reading the last four pages made 2 people move up in my town list and 1 down. I'm here to interact all day as well.

Where is Corwin on your list and why?

I really want to know what your fascination with me is. Since your RVS vote you haven't even looked anywhere else or engaged meaningfully with any other slot in the game. Seriously, what's going on here?

VOTE: UNOwen

Scummy post.

UNVOTE: GeorgeBailey
VOTE: Corwinoid

[Vivax]

It's true he has not named anyone else as scummy, but he's also been somewhat engaged. I'm still null on Unowen though - It's nowhere near as bad as players like George.

Somewhat engaged how? The only people with less posts are gibus, GB and NM (and the mod), and almost half (5/13) of his posts including his RVS are engaging with me exclusively. This looks a lot more like someone trying to hide and shade a slot than any actual engagement.

Agreed, Uno hasn't moved their vote since RVS and the shade in [post]307[post] feels like, er, posturing? Or would the right word be rallying.

Like whether or not they should move their vote in case there's any traction.

Do you have a townread on Corwin?

[Vivax]

From a cursory ISO:

I think Elsa fell off a cliff too much for my taste which is in contrast to earlier activity.
Picking gibus and N_M as scum also looks baddish, they are in my launch-bait category, and Elsa didn't really look like they were putting in much effort after that list.
The whole Corwin/GB notion seems to fly by Elsa.

[Vivax]

It's true he has not named anyone else as scummy, but he's also been somewhat engaged. I'm still null on Unowen though - It's nowhere near as bad as players like George.

Somewhat engaged how? The only people with less posts are gibus, GB and NM (and the mod), and almost half (5/13) of his posts including his RVS are engaging with me exclusively. This looks a lot more like someone trying to hide and shade a slot than any actual engagement.

Agreed, Uno hasn't moved their vote since RVS and the shade in [post]307[post] feels like, er, posturing? Or would the right word be rallying.

Like whether or not they should move their vote in case there's any traction.

Do you have a townread on Corwin?

No, but I don't have a scumread either.

I don't think his recent callout on UnOwen was scummy, I think it's pretty fair to call out someone for tunneling when they have very little expansion on their read.

Did he go in a townie way about it? Often mafia think they can't possibly be scumread off so little, and you get these discharges of frustration. In TvT in my experience it can lead to page-long shitfights, not this meek type of complaining.
As town he'd be better off ignoring it and offering a better alternative, he was also not the top wagon at the moment of the post iirc.

Either way, at best you'd have a reason to ask Owen to expand on his read, not call him mafia when Corwin isn't in your obvtown-pile.

[Vivax]

Alrighty. Making my own tentative list of townies and scum.

People who are probs good

Crescent
Vivax
Umlaut
Alex
Eiralox
Clidd

Peeps who need more analysis

Corwin
Goldfish
George
Owen
Gera

If they die I wouldn't mind

NotMaf
Gibus

Agreed, Uno hasn't moved their vote since RVS and the shade in [post]307[post] feels like, er, posturing? Or would the right word be rallying.

Like whether or not they should move their vote in case there's any traction.

Specifically with Elsa she wanted to know my opinion earlier and I told her I suspected Corwin without elaborating. Since she didn't press me further I'm wondering if she just accepted me saying that or if she's actually been following my posts and has an opinion on my opinion.

Which I'm still looking for btw

@Elsa

.

Re-reading your ISO again kinda had the opposite effect of what you wanted and now your on my lower end while reading Corwin moved him up. Like... Sometimes I get sticking to the first vote but tunneling so hard day 1? Nah.

From a cursory ISO:

I think Elsa fell off a cliff too much for my taste which is in contrast to earlier activity.
Picking gibus and N_M as scum also looks baddish, they are in my launch-bait category, and Elsa didn't really look like they were putting in much effort after that list.
The whole Corwin/GB notion seems to fly by Elsa.

I put those 2 in a separate category from the people I actually thought were scummy/needed more content for a reason. Those were the acceptable policy ones.

My activity fell off a cliff for OOG work reasons. I started the game on my vacation so now I'm back to a normal busy time. Will be at work again today like I said yesterday but I am paying attention still.

Remaking my list now.

Townist:
Eiralox (definitely way better the before)
Vivax (seems to care enough about town to look into everything)
Alex (felt townie when fighting me)
Clidd (most gut but I think I played with them 2 years ago? Just feels good)

Null:
Crescent (down from before but definitely not killing today)
Corwin (Middle of the pack now so way better)
George (townier then the 3 below)
Goldfish (feels just... Like I haven't actually noticed a game changing post and feels like a wallflower))

Scummy:
Gera (don't know but they haven't rung townie immediately to me either so I'll trust the majority.)
Owen (hasn't responded well to anything really. Too obsessed)

Wouldn't care if dead but not for being evil. Just apathetic to it:
NotMaf (he is who he is)
Gibus (the guy I feel we should compromise on if we don't have a conclusion like my original plan stated)

That's my list. The big 3 I wanna focus on day 2 will probably be what's up with Goldfish Alex or Cres. Getting the alignment of those 3 solved will definitely help us solve whatever partners we can find.

Town investigative would be good on one of those 3 or maybe me/Eira. Checking a lower tier slot feels like a waste so definitely one of us 5.

I think you forgot to remake your list while remaking your list.
Also, the host is in the town pile xD

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

It's true he has not named anyone else as scummy, but he's also been somewhat engaged. I'm still null on Unowen though - It's nowhere near as bad as players like George.

Somewhat engaged how? The only people with less posts are gibus, GB and NM (and the mod), and almost half (5/13) of his posts including his RVS are engaging with me exclusively. This looks a lot more like someone trying to hide and shade a slot than any actual engagement.

Agreed, Uno hasn't moved their vote since RVS and the shade in [post]307[post] feels like, er, posturing? Or would the right word be rallying.

Like whether or not they should move their vote in case there's any traction.

Do you have a townread on Corwin?

No, but I don't have a scumread either.

I don't think his recent callout on UnOwen was scummy, I think it's pretty fair to call out someone for tunneling when they have very little expansion on their read.

Did he go in a townie way about it? Often mafia think they can't possibly be scumread off so little, and you get these discharges of frustration. In TvT in my experience it can lead to page-long shitfights, not this meek type of complaining.
As town he'd be better off ignoring it and offering a better alternative, he was also not the top wagon at the moment of the post iirc.

Either way, at best you'd have a reason to ask Owen to expand on his read, not call him mafia when Corwin isn't in your obvtown-pile.

I've hard scumread someone

two posts

into a game before. Yes, yes it often gets underestimated what can be picked up on.

It ultimately depends on the player. Higher end players tend to be more careful early on and stay firmly in their "null" zone. Lesser players or players who haven't played in a while can be more loose early and it can get them into trouble. Corwi doesn't have

high

scum equity, but he's had some level of scum equity essentially all game.

Alrighty. Making my own tentative list of townies and scum.

People who are probs good

Crescent
Vivax
Umlaut
Alex
Eiralox
Clidd

Peeps who need more analysis

Corwin
Goldfish
George
Owen
Gera

If they die I wouldn't mind

NotMaf
Gibus

Agreed, Uno hasn't moved their vote since RVS and the shade in [post]307[post] feels like, er, posturing? Or would the right word be rallying.

Like whether or not they should move their vote in case there's any traction.

Specifically with Elsa she wanted to know my opinion earlier and I told her I suspected Corwin without elaborating. Since she didn't press me further I'm wondering if she just accepted me saying that or if she's actually been following my posts and has an opinion on my opinion.

Which I'm still looking for btw

@Elsa

.

Re-reading your ISO again kinda had the opposite effect of what you wanted and now your on my lower end while reading Corwin moved him up. Like... Sometimes I get sticking to the first vote but tunneling so hard day 1? Nah.

From a cursory ISO:

I think Elsa fell off a cliff too much for my taste which is in contrast to earlier activity.
Picking gibus and N_M as scum also looks baddish, they are in my launch-bait category, and Elsa didn't really look like they were putting in much effort after that list.
The whole Corwin/GB notion seems to fly by Elsa.

I put those 2 in a separate category from the people I actually thought were scummy/needed more content for a reason. Those were the acceptable policy ones.

My activity fell off a cliff for OOG work reasons. I started the game on my vacation so now I'm back to a normal busy time. Will be at work again today like I said yesterday but I am paying attention still.

Remaking my list now.

Townist:
Eiralox (definitely way better the before)
Vivax (seems to care enough about town to look into everything)
Alex (felt townie when fighting me)
Clidd (most gut but I think I played with them 2 years ago? Just feels good)

Null:
Crescent (down from before but definitely not killing today)
Corwin (Middle of the pack now so way better)
George (townier then the 3 below)
Goldfish (feels just... Like I haven't actually noticed a game changing post and feels like a wallflower))

Scummy:
Gera (don't know but they haven't rung townie immediately to me either so I'll trust the majority.)
Owen (hasn't responded well to anything really. Too obsessed)

Wouldn't care if dead but not for being evil. Just apathetic to it:
NotMaf (he is who he is)
Gibus (the guy I feel we should compromise on if we don't have a conclusion like my original plan stated)

That's my list. The big 3 I wanna focus on day 2 will probably be what's up with Goldfish Alex or Cres. Getting the alignment of those 3 solved will definitely help us solve whatever partners we can find.

Town investigative would be good on one of those 3 or maybe me/Eira. Checking a lower tier slot feels like a waste so definitely one of us 5.

I think you forgot to remake your list while remaking your list.
Also, the host is in the town pile xD

Huh... Yet another thing I should've noticed on my own. Lord I'm not sharp this game.

The host being in that pile is either a total ADHD moment by town, or it's a major gaffe by scum just pulling names out of a hat to order randomly and accidentally including the host.

Now to somehow figure out which..

I don't know if Corwin is higher end. Most high tier scum players I have experienced are able to cover up their mistakes just by being spammy as f*ck and having an imposant personality, so they end up convincing others that whatever their mistake was wasn't a big deal, plus they control part of the thread narrative through their presence. Takes lots of motivation though, so often you spot such a personality being mafia because you fish out a weaker teammate (so the stronger player loses motivation).

Could Elsa be the stronger player and one or two teammates under pressure so she fell off? Might take a few cycles to find that out.

[Vivax]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

Being mafia is hard, you have to learn the pitfalls first. And there's no magic trick to the game, it's just practice. I comparatively am (a lot more) bad at being mafia for example.
We used to have newbie games with coaching on my old site, a newcomer will often feel overwhelmed by more experienced players, regardless of whether their read is right.

[Vivax]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

Being mafia is hard, you have to learn the pitfalls first. And there's no magic trick to the game, it's just practice. I comparatively am (a lot more) bad at being mafia for example.
We used to have newbie games with coaching on my old site, a newcomer will often feel overwhelmed by more experienced players, regardless of whether their read is right.

Didn't he say he isn't specifically new though, just that he hasn't played in a while?

He says right there he has 3 finished games.
I don't know if he rolled mafia before.

[Vivax]

@ Corwin

Considering that you are not exactly below suspicion at the moment, what do you think about GeorgeBayley voting Owen for voting you, but having you at null?
Are you familiar with TMI?

[Vivax]

You know that they'll be night actions to rule out difficult to sort players right?
You seem to have this opinion that town can only ever win this game if you get everything right, and I can't work out why you are playing like this.

Agree.

This town CAN only win if it gets everything right. Half the game is a borderline waste of a playerslot.

Honestly after N_M voted for George, you should be celebrant.

[Vivax]

You know that they'll be night actions to rule out difficult to sort players right?
You seem to have this opinion that town can only ever win this game if you get everything right, and I can't work out why you are playing like this.

Agree.

This town CAN only win if it gets everything right. Half the game is a borderline waste of a playerslot.

Honestly after N_M voted for George, you should be celebrant.

Are we ever going to get a WHY?

Because he's voting scum.

[Vivax]

@ Corwin

Considering that you are not exactly below suspicion at the moment, what do you think about GeorgeBayley voting Owen for voting you, but having you at null?
Are you familiar with TMI?

The only two people suspicious of anything are you and the guy who's been up my ass since RVS. Since GB didn't vote Owen I don't think anything about it and I think hypotheticals like this are worse than useless. Asking Crescent to lay those particular cards out isn't asking for TMI--I also think his conclusion is wrong.

What do you suggest?That we know nothing and keep knowing nothing?

[Vivax]

How in the hell do you go from me asking someone to make a plain point so we're on the same page and now things, to me suggest we "keep knowing nothing"?

Because you still didn't post a read on GeorgeBayley. Your main goal seems to dismiss arguments, not build them.

If you are town and the wagon next to you is GeorgeBayley, and you don't know the alignment of GeorgeBayley, you can save yourself by getting him voted, which is the correct play 100% of the time.

[Vivax]

Is there really a chance he's jester?

I have read this half a dozen times now while re-reading and updating notes... and every time it just sticks out like a fucking sore thumb. Why in the world would you think/suggest this?

It's the first thing he posted.
If he's as good at telling the truth as he is at voting mafia, I should be worried.

[Vivax]

And Corwin knew that?

Did Corwin play with not_mafia claiming jester in one of his three games 6? yearso ago?

[Vivax]

If Corwin asked first I could see it being a reasonably uninformed question that's just NAI. I don't see it being an argument against him.

No, I asked if NM can be jester. Corwin is saying that he thinks it's scummy when he reads it over and over again.

[Vivax]

How in the hell do you go from me asking someone to make a plain point so we're on the same page and now things, to me suggest we "keep knowing nothing"?

Because you still didn't post a read on GeorgeBayley.

Your main goal seems to dismiss arguments, not build them.

If you are town and the wagon next to you is GeorgeBayley, and you don't know the alignment of GeorgeBayley, you can save yourself by getting him voted, which is the correct play 100% of the time.

And this is the biggest issue I have from him. Right there.

Then vote for him?

[Vivax]

If your join date is any indication, this is your first game here. I don't see why that would be scummy. There's a very specific meta about third parties out of the blue that I'm used to and is actually fairly accurate, but Jester has never been in that meta, nor do I know if that meta even applies here.

It's basically just a total null, but it plays into the feeling that he's spending too much time on himself and not looking like he's actually solving.

I know it's not scummy.

At the same time it's odd that someone (=Corwinoid) who didn't play for 6 years and played three games is auto assuming there can't be a jester and thinks it's scummy I could think of the possibility. Unless he lied or knows there's no jester because he's mafia.

And maybe he didn't even read NMs posts and didn't know he claimed jester? Seems more likely since he's likely scum.

[Vivax]

I mean, from the best possible perspective where he's town, he could have suggested that I had no reason to assume a jester in the game because he somehow didn't read and missed NM claiming jester right off the bat.

[Vivax]

How would mafia know whether or not a Jester exists?

How would they even know a third party exists, barring simply having too few numbers for the game?

Like, my last scumgame we we 3/14. We knew for dead certain there was a third party because 4 in 14 is standard where I come from.

The point is that Mafia wouldn't care which roles they're hunting because they're informed.

Not knowing Jester isn't a prohibited role in Normal games from an experienced player comes off as very much not caring about needing to solve.

That's why I asked? xD

But go on...

[Vivax]

I think Corwinoid just unintentionally built a case for me being town.

He said I would care enough to want to know if there's a jester so I asked if there's a jester, ergo I cared enough.

Or maybe I'm mafia because I asked instead of looking it up on the wiki.

Is Corwinoid really so hard to spot as mafia? :d

[Vivax]

Crescent, stop calling my random vote not random.
You are talking out of your ass.

I will ignore you the for the rest of the game because your insistence that you know my actions better than me is just baffling me.

When you come back, remember to do this.

[Vivax]

If gibus posts another unofficial vote count he will make it to top town in my book.

[Vivax]

How would mafia know whether or not a Jester exists?

How would they even know a third party exists, barring simply having too few numbers for the game?

Like, my last scumgame we we 3/14. We knew for dead certain there was a third party because 4 in 14 is standard where I come from.

The point is that Mafia wouldn't care which roles they're hunting because they're informed.

Not knowing Jester isn't a prohibited role

in Normal games from an experienced player comes off as very much not caring about needing to solve.

I thought jester was prohibited?

[Vivax]

That's not an if, it's a when. I will flip green, and the scumteam here are the people who've been shading/tunneling this slot since page 2 and pushing it the hardest now.

Is Owen not mafia?

[Vivax]

I find Elsa adding the host to reads mostly NAI. It's funny and tells you who has been reading and who not.
*ducks*

[Vivax]

Like there are so many easier targets to dump a vote on if Corwin is scum. Unless he's hoping people ignore it and eliminate someone else and he can coast by without being on a miselim? Idk

You could keep wifoming, or you could see that he's calling me mafia for the jester thingy and not getting the reasons straight at that.
He didn't simply dump a vote, and I don't see why you'd be more convinced he was mafia if he picked an easier target.

[Vivax]

No. I knew the game was Normal, and what invalid roles there are.

Someone genuinely trying to solve would want to know what they're up against.

this can read null. it might be genuine town though-process coming from Corwin, and while I certainly wouldn't be thinking this way, it's not enough for a scum lean by itself. Corwin might merely be wondering why town! Vivax didn't do full private research regarding the setup(which, again, is not scummy on Vivax's part--- I myself stated my own ignorance on the matter.

This can be T/T.

And if the town doesn't vote Corwin, who should we be voting in your opinion?

George still?

[Vivax]

Hmmm both Crescent and Alex make fair points here.

Alex says: Why would Scum! Corwin vote on such a flimsy pretext and draw attention?

Crescent says: Why would Town! Corwin have no reaction to two people voting OWEN after one another?

Possibly Corwin felt more green about Owen, and took the argument with Vivax personally.

Why would Scum! Corwin change their vote after two people hopped on a wagon? This can go either way, the only logical reason I would see was Scum! Corwin protecting Scum! Owen with a diversionary attack after the wagon got too hot.

This post doesn't reflect that narrative:

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

He's suggesting me and Owen are a team, so how is he protecting Owen?

[Vivax]

I wouldn't be surprised if Owen was mafia tbh.

He had a golden opportunity to add more fuel to the Corwin wagon but just kinda sits there with his vote on him.

Bus bussy.

Corwin, Owen, GB?

[Vivax]

UNVOTE: Corwinoid
VOTE: GeorgeBailey

[Vivax]

are people really asking me to case here

i'm going to get fucking nightkilled

just unvote and pick someone else

Sure boss, who?

[Vivax]

idk

i'm on owen

go owen

or anyone else

That player not hammering you?

[Vivax]

if George flips town i'm still not discounting Elsa/Clidd. The water will me muddied though.

Hard to fake a mason claim.
If Elsa was serious.

[Vivax]

Yeah I misread what Elsa said.

[Vivax]

oh hell yeah i get to pad out my post count during twilight

let's go everyone.

Why didn't you try to influence the launch before being on the chopping block?

[Vivax]

Speaking of which, does anyone know why this image is in Alex's ISO? ^

I don't, but maybe you do.

[Vivax]

Speaking of which, does anyone know why this image is in Alex's ISO? ^

I don't, but maybe you do.

Ok, that's a crumb probably would be my best guess.

[Vivax]

I saw ''detective'' once in a game (2020) and the player in question, as far as I can remember, was also eliminated on day one.

Tragic.

i was a novice detective in my last game. i made it to end game

is the hammer genuine then?

and it wasnt Not Mafia who did it??

i am assuming this claim in twilight is genuine. if i had been around i would have made it clear i wouldn't have gone near George Bailey today ever.
anyone got a rollcall of all those who could have unvoted after the claim PR and didn't? Or am i going to have to look that up myself tomorrow?

lol

[Vivax]

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Methinks these were his reads inverted. I don't know if someone could have already mentioned that.

[Vivax]

clidd sus for lack of benedict cumberbatch gifs

gotta pump those numbers up

I miss you, my friend.

We're kind of destined to play opposite alignments, but hopefully this time things will be different, right?

GG and congratulations. Your alignments were the same.

Speaking of which, does anyone know why this image is in Alex's ISO? ^

Makes me kind of sus of Alex tbh. Could have been a covert attempt at rolefishing by posting a fake crumb. If someone became suspicious of Alex afterwards, it'd give him info on possible detectives.
But it's a long shot.

I still think Corwin is mafia fwiw. Hope that Crescent is on the same page as their presence is pivotal in moving the game into one direction (when they aren't tilting and trying to do too much at once).

[Vivax]

If there's two yet by all the peoples between sea and mount it is called a triumviratus, then Keasar and Krassus surely must wonder who in the shadows lurk? And who then can fault Keasar for thinking life but a jest, and the shadow partner naught but a jester? Ah, but the third was found, for was Pompey the Great not buried under the ashes of hubris?

Great vig claim.

The remaining question is who Keasar is if Corwin is Krassus.

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

Speaking of which, does anyone know why this image is in Alex's ISO? ^

Makes me kind of sus of Alex tbh. Could have been a covert attempt at rolefishing by posting a fake crumb. If someone became suspicious of Alex afterwards, it'd give him info on possible detectives.
But it's a long shot.

I still think Corwin is mafia fwiw. Hope that Crescent is on the same page as their presence is pivotal in moving the game into one direction (when they aren't tilting and trying to do too much at once).

Out of all possible normal roles, why would scum!me try to rolefish for detectives there, specifically?

Not voting (7): geraintm, GoldfishFromTheMoon, Vivax, Elsa Jay, Eiralox, Crescent, Corwinoid

Scum is in here somewhere

games over boys, we can all go home. sherlock here has solved it.....

Because Geraint gave you an opportunity to try.
Could also be a fakecrumb of a generic investigative role.

Since it's a long shot, I don't see much point in pushing the notion that you're mafia, but it's an interesting thought to me. If Corwin doesn't start spewing green butterflies soon I'm voting for him today.

[Vivax]

I mean, considering you lived specifically because we jumped onto George for reasons I still don't get, I thought you would rethink your list. Then again since Owen flipped evil (despite being a traitor who main scum wouldn't know he is it) I guess you'll stick to your guns.

Who would be the remaining 2 scum to you?

With a traitor is it 3+1 or 2+1? I have Vivax, I'm not sure who the third is.

Gera, Alex, Eira are town, I think NM is town right now. I would have stuck on Owen but you and Eira scared me off, I said that yesterday too. I'm null or very slightly leaned on everyone else right now.

Crescent null (holy postcount batman) and Elsa scared him off but doesn't get a townread (or maybe he forgot to mention it?). Meh.

[Vivax]

It almost sounds as if he wanted to give credit to elsa for scaring him off Owen, but doesn't read them as town. Eira on the other hand gets that credit and a townread. Then I realize it's not credit but a blame shift.
If he was thinking about his townreads, why is the next thing Corwin thought about the reason he voted away from Owen (and then posting an apologetic reason)? Feeling guilty, that's why.

[Vivax]

If there's two yet by all the peoples between sea and mount it is called a triumviratus, then Keasar and Krassus surely must wonder who in the shadows lurk? And who then can fault Keasar for thinking life but a jest, and the shadow partner naught but a jester? Ah, but the third was found, for was Pompey the Great not buried under the ashes of hubris?

Great vig claim.

The remaining question is who Keasar is if Corwin is Krassus.

Why (if true) would you even out this as town, Vivax?

I thought Eira was town anyway, and I felt like solving the riddle. I didn't expect back an answer. That the riddle is out there to solve tells me that if true, Eira already gave the info to reach the conclusion so they don't mind it being outed.

I think all the arguments for Corwin being mafia are slam dunk and it's up to other townies to realize they are correct. I could swing a big speech and just repeat them neatly ordered and presented but I don't feel like it.

[Vivax]

Wanting to lynch Corwin yesterday but being widely townread, then having to compromise on George only to find that today we've somehow regressed to discussing me is mildly disappointing.
A reason for someone to be mafia shouldn't become better just because you add more content.

Daily challenge: Find the player who attempts AtE on D2.

[Vivax]

Sorry for the L-word again. It's really hard to adapt when playing on this site and printing your thoughts quickly. 10 years of using it leaves a mark.
I think if you put the first post from Corwin I pinged into a Quiz, most players would think it's a mafia writing it.

I'm here, I'm keeping up on things but I've been busy lately also. I'm consciously trying to observe more and drive a little less this game than I have in previous ones while I shake the rust off.

[Vivax]

Sorry for the L-word again. It's really hard to adapt when playing on this site and printing your thoughts quickly. 10 years of using it leaves a mark.
I think if you put the first post from Corwin I pinged into a Quiz, most players would think it's a mafia writing it.

I'm here, I'm keeping up on things but I've been busy lately also. I'm consciously trying to observe more and drive a little less this game than I have in previous ones while I shake the rust off.

Oh I agree that post was bad. One of the many reasons he had early scum equity.

But what I really want from you is one post of substance that actually has nothing to do with Corwin.

I don't see the issue. I misread a blue as mafia, which is not a rare thing as they both hide something.
Then on D1 I said I'd vote between Corwin, Owen and George.

I was ready to vote the only person who was voting Corwin with me until the wagon switched to George. If that's not townie while you assume Corwin was a mislynch I don't know what is.

[Vivax]

MISLAUNCH FFS

[Vivax]

How do you edit your posts? It's not allowed on my home community but maybe here you can look at the edit history.

[Vivax]

Fine, if you insist that I find someone outside of Corwin I will. Just don't expect me to be quick.
I was thinking of clidd as wildcard before he got shot. Considering he had quite the pokerface on him, he probably had a right hunch somewhere.
Or does he have a reputation of being consistently good?

No L-word, nice.

UNVOTE: Corwinoid

[Vivax]

I'd say that since I'm supposed to do a lot of legwork and I'm reluctant to do that with NM playing the way he does, this should probably be the day we policy-launch him.
If you disagree, feel free to do what you want. But then I'll do what I want too, which is nothing while I have an unreadable slot.

[Vivax]

I'd say that since I'm supposed to do a lot of legwork and I'm reluctant to do that with NM playing the way he does, this should probably be the day we policy-launch him.
If you disagree, feel free to do what you want. But then I'll do what I want too, which is nothing while I have an unreadable slot.

I asked you earlier why you would've gone for Clidd given you last mentioned him all the way back in #182.

You should at least have an answer to back that up?

No other reason but the polished entrance and general difficulty in getting a read. Wildcard means my next guess for mafia if someone among Corwin, George, Owen wasn't. The NK helped me narrow it down.

Anything else you want to know? If not, I would't mind getting NM out.

VOTE: Not_mafia

[Vivax]

I’m clearly someone who values his own survival over launching mafia.

[Vivax]

Fine, if you insist that I find someone outside of Corwin I will. Just don't expect me to be quick.
I was thinking of clidd as wildcard before he got shot. Considering he had quite the pokerface on him, he probably had a right hunch somewhere.
Or does he have a reputation of being consistently good?

No L-word, nice.

UNVOTE: Corwinoid

Catching up, on phone so this won't be great.
Don't get the unvote here

Damned if I do, damned if I don't *shrug*

[Vivax]

I'd say that since I'm supposed to do a lot of legwork and I'm reluctant to do that with NM playing the way he does, this should probably be the day we policy-launch him.
If you disagree, feel free to do what you want. But then I'll do what I want too, which is nothing while I have an unreadable slot.

If not mafia ever flips green, then vivax looks bad for this to me

But Owen flipped red, I should look good to you by the same logic.

[Vivax]

I'm gonna openly OMGUS this, go look at clidds reads, and call geraintm mafia for this. And because the logic to vote for me is hilariously lazy and he doesn't apply it in reverse.

And there's also your reason for clidd getting NKd.

So I guess my work here is done. I'll just sheep a good dead town, because it's what mafia wouldn't want me to do.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: geraintm

[Vivax]

And there's also your reason for clidd getting NKd

Elaborate here Vivax? You think Gera wanted Clidd gone the most? That sounds like solving to me.

I don't know what's left to elaborate. If I open clidd's ISO/filter and look at the lists he posted, geraintm is in the scum pile every single time.
Considering that clidd wasn't obvious town and didn't try to be, adding to that his weird reason "If NM flips town then Vivax looks bad for this" which reeks like TMI that NM is town from a mile away, then that makes me believe that geraintm is the mafia I wasn't looking for but that came to me regardless.

To expand: You can't possibly think I look bad for wanting to launch NM today when he's still alive and you don't know his alignment.

In 1000 he built a case on me for my Corwin progression, then added this:

Day 2....i dunno.
they are ignoring Corwin's claim which is weird.
i didn't liek their day 1 play, there are too many instances of just posts that are off to me and the fixation on george (town) and COrwin (who i am making the assumption is town at this point until proven otherwise, i cannot see their play today being from scum) looks so so bad.

In 1021 he mentioned Alex agreeing to the PL, but didn't follow up on him the same way he does on me in 1091 since Alex is not on the table for launch today, so that's a mafia-y trait. You just apply a reason that applies to two to the person you want mislaunched.

and concluded with this

@ Crescent - i am reading Corwin as town too btw today.

and just caught your ISO on Vivax. i didnt spend much time on Day 2 (because of the lack of votes and as you put it, the general mehness to it) - but agree with you that they seem off.

P1000 isn't a case but it's built like one, it's just...manure flinging as every quoted part suggests low confidence on his part.
His reason to really vote me seems to be built on sentiment produced by other players votes on me.

[Vivax]

oops

Stop stealing my selfies

[Vivax]

Geraintm probably thought I would just spend the entire day tunneling Corwin again, then saw the unvote, picked up his jaw from the floor and lazily pointed out it would make me mafia.

[Vivax]

And since every good coffin needs four nails, here's the final one:

Day 2....i dunno.
they are ignoring Corwin's claim which is weird.

What claim?
Did geraintm tell him to claim vig today or where does this come from.

[Vivax]

To expand: You can't possibly think I look bad for wanting to launch NM today when he's still alive and you don't know his alignment.

*Raises hand*

The NM vote was legitimately bad because a vote on him that early in the day achieves absolutely nothing. It's the ultimate sinkhole. I've made it no secret I find him insufferable and want him out of this game, but rushing him out is not pro-town.

I'm only on phone at the moment so tabbing all over the place isn't an option but next up I'm taking a peek at Gera's day 2 ISO.

Not that NM matters now as for what I believe, I found the other mafia. You're kind of on an old page.

The argument is very bad as it puts something that happens in a possible future (NM dies and flips town) as a fact in the present (NM would die as town and that makes you look bad now).

[Vivax]

I was kind of drawing up a massive for almost an hour post when I started out wanting to make a simple flowchart in response to crescent.
But the end result is that crescent is likely mafia.

[Vivax]

I think I might be getting closer to the Eureka moment while writing this post. Or it's just another one of my insane ramblings. Would mean that either geraint or Corwin is town however? Or maybe there's 3 mafias + the traitor, dunno.
Crescent, I see little reason to do what you did and just antagonize the points on geraint without seeing his reply. Or rather, I see the reason, but I think that's because you're a restless poster and want to test me. I don't believe you when you say that you don't think I'm town.
Starting back from the basics, if I were to make up a flowchart off the bat it would look like this:

Do you think that whoever wrote something is lying to you, or not? y/n
If not, it doesn't mean anything, as mafia have perfect information and their alternative to lying is telling the truth. If I open Crescents ISO and try to find an example, I find this.

One thing I will add is the guy who voted me is probably town. I tend to be a magnet for unexplained early votes from people who haven't played with me before, and they're almost always town. It's why I got sus of Gamma last game for openly townreading me for no given reason in the first 60.

Take that post and compare it to the post right afterwards.

Crescent and Gibus are scum together, got it

Alex post doesn't have the aspiration to be right off the bat. It's just a guess, and Alex doesn't explain it cause he knows that the guess is genuine.
Meanwhile Crescents post starts with truth off a simple random vote by gibus. To fend off suspicion sometimes you think that offering a piece of the puzzle will satisfy the town.
But since mafia needs to hide that they had the solution on their hand, they need to conceal that fact, so they feel compelled to justify it. Which is why crescent added the two sentences, as she wanted to avoid someone asking her about it and anticipated the answer.

I believe that as town crescent would have written like this:

One thing I will add is the guy who voted me is probably town.

Flowchart cont:

If you think that it's a lie, is the lie worded in a way that conceals that it's a lie?
If not, assume town.
if other/town, does the lie lead to a productive result?
no -> possible mafia, or you are playing against a group of friends who try to bring you onto the wrong track (It's not hard to construct a troll game, but don't assume I'm implying it for this one, it can happen generally).
yes -> See the result.

If yes, assume mafia. To conceal the lie, that's where the mafia writes a fake story.

Crescent cont:

Owen then caught it (presumably):

P.S.

I think the difference is some town get bad-vibes from it and decide to pressure me to get a better read, but it doesn't really ping anything from scum as something worth pursuing, which is why that vote usually comes from town.

What makes you think that gibus wasn't just random voting?

'Cause an entire day had passed and his "sticking with the basics" line suggests having an actual reason to vote that wasn't strong enough to actually go into detail on.

The answer immediately assumed the vote from gibus came from town. Because it was true and Crescent already maneuvered herself into that corner in the previous post.

Pretend you're crescent here and you don't know if gibus had a strong or weak reason. The obvious answer if you weren't hiding information is 'I don't know if gibus was random voting'.
But because you handed out a townread and don't want to rescind it for fear of looking bad, the only way you can avoid that is to make it look like you thought it was a weak reason.
So you add that assumption into the answer and deliver it in the most innocent way possible.

Need a break now lol.
UNVOTE: Geraintm
VOTE: Crescent

[Vivax]

You don't need to find more than one mistake to realize someone is a liar who pretends to tell the truth while telling the truth.

I think I have three questions Crescent can't possibly answer:

Why did geraintm say that Corwin claimed and I ignored it?

If you don't know, why aren't you interested in it?

If you are interested in it, why didn't you ask about it and pretended not to notice #1101?

[Vivax]

Not_mafia, the first in-game mafia coach.

[Vivax]

Why did geraintm say that Corwin claimed and I ignored it?

If you don't know, why aren't you interested in it?

If you are interested in it, why didn't you ask about it and pretended not to notice #1101?

This is funny because you are using circular reasoning here:

I only noticed it when you brought it up in #1098. I even said I have no idea where it's coming from.

You answer that you noticed and that you don't know. That answers question 3, and brings you back to question 1.
Then you proceed to 2.

So, is this post truth or lie?

Because I find it more awkward than scummy. It had already been brought up by you, and all there was to dowas to wait for the response. The way you jumped immediately to "Gera told Corwin to fakeclaim vig" in #1101 is actually significantly scummier than Gera thinking Corwin had claimed when he didn't.

Probably truth. It looks awfully similar to this post:

One thing I will add is the guy who voted me is probably town. I tend to be a magnet for unexplained early votes from people who haven't played with me before, and they're almost always town. It's why I got sus of Gamma last game for openly townreading me for no given reason in the first 60.

Which just makes you and Corwin mafia I guess?

[Vivax]

You never acknowledged Owen's flip when pursuing Corwin. You completely ignored it.

I pursued Corwin before Owen's flip, so it doesn't matter. Are you saying that Owens vote on Corwin makes him town?

You have yet to explain how Corwin and I being scum with Owen could conceivably make any sense whatsoever. This assumes a ton of early bussing, but doesn't actually explain any reasons why. There is no counter to the arguments that scum-aligned Owen that could've been shot for scum voting for scum Corwin the entire day wouldn't have made any sense. I also think Corwin is a virtual lock for town now after that vote he just placed on me.

No, I don't? Look at the thread lol. Corwin claimed scum to me on D1, there was this moment when I was talking to him like I knew 100% he was mafia and he kept replying to me as if he knew I knew. Of course I play along while he's incriminating himself while doing that.

But here's the fun fact: The only time you have made any reference to Owen being scum mattering is when you tried to cash in on his scum flip, disregarding that he was aligned and there was no credit for voting him. It appears it only matters when it's a moment of opportunity for you.

Yes it only matters when it's a moment of opportunity for me. I don't need to point out things when there is not an opportunity to point them out because..

As town I avoid to go looking for reasons to defend myself as my pressure to stay alive isn't as high. I'm better off proving why someone else is mafia.

[Vivax]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

Here, the team play part is the scum claim. Because he could just have called us mafia.

That was based off these posts:

Won't say who yet but reading the last four pages made 2 people move up in my town list and 1 down. I'm here to interact all day as well.

Where is Corwin on your list and why?

I really want to know what your fascination with me is. Since your RVS vote you haven't even looked anywhere else or engaged meaningfully with any other slot in the game. Seriously, what's going on here?#
VOTE: UNOwen

Won't say who yet but reading the last four pages made 2 people move up in my town list and 1 down. I'm here to interact all day as well.

Where is Corwin on your list and why?

I really want to know what your fascination with me is. Since your RVS vote you haven't even looked anywhere else or engaged meaningfully with any other slot in the game. Seriously, what's going on here?

VOTE: UNOwen

Scummy post.

UNVOTE: GeorgeBailey
VOTE: Corwinoid

If I look at Owens ISO again, I don't think Corwin had to overreact in that way. Crescent was after all still skirting by and Owen not calling her mafia, though he pinged her once.
Best would have just been to ignore the posts and not get emotional.

[Vivax]

I'd cut crescent some slack, but I had my hand forced and had to find someone not Corwin or not_mafia. Pun intended. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Vivax]

I think I might be getting closer to the Eureka moment while writing this post. Or it's just another one of my insane ramblings. Would mean that either geraint or Corwin is town however?

jesus, you are very hard to follow. im not scum now???

This dude's weird he's calling me jesus.

[Vivax]

I don‘t know why I should post more. I feel like my work here is done, geraint even thinks I‘m town jesus but doesn‘t admit it.
The next time I log in after work it might be to use the avatar NM suggested for Crescent.

[Vivax]

well ok but crscent? work done there? so scum... is... who? crescent and gibus? come one vivax two more votes and you are done. unvoting is a distinct possibly for me but... not yet. And Goldfish/Toffee? the fact that you have not mentioned or read that slot once? Anything on that?

I don't see why someone has to write about every slot to find mafia. I find their posts unremarkable, while I don't find the posts of my scumreads unremarkable. Why would I want the attention directed at something unremarkable?

If the town wants to lunch me, go right ahead. Voting for me won't make me change my reads, because I'm not mafia.

[Vivax]

I read gibus cluelesness in 885 & 886 as townie. Overall it's not an easy read as he asks a lot and writes little, I just don't think the tone and his entrance are likely to be come from mafia.

[Vivax]

He came across as cheeky by just copying someone elses, I think ElsAs entrance.

I don't think mafia would come into the thread with something that can easily lead to questions.

[Vivax]

Or it's an easy way to enter the thread and appear easy going?

As repeated in his vote on Elsa.

Besides that, you can't really base a read from the start of the game like that. You have nothing to say about my posts regarding Gibus?

You only have the read on Gibus?
What about the other mafia? Or if Gibus isn't mafia. Did you think about that already?

[Vivax]

Again, missing the point.

My problem is not whether your vote was random or not.

My problem is that from your vote (random or not) Crescent town read you. Scum!Gibus thinks 'Cool, an early town read, I'll take that' and town!Gibus thinks 'Why the hell did Crescent just town read me for a random vote?' You did the former.

Not only did you do the former. You had a problem with somebody else throwing out an early town read that you felt was in 'bad faith'. Is this not exactly what Crescent did?

The scumslip thing? He said that he didn't want to white knight/town read gera later. Some stuff isn't a scum slip when it's poorly phrased.

[Vivax]

It’s not a spitevote I voted you because you cover up your TMI with extra sentences that look similar every time in order to avoid being questioned about your reads.

[Vivax]

Anyways my problem is.. I kinda don't like either of the trains. I like an Elsa train more than both a Vivax train and a Gibus train.

Vivax has more scum equity than Gibus, but also moments like this one where it's hard to see scum just popping in like that to rehash his old bad argument that never got anywhere in the first place.

More likely to come from barely trying town than it is from lurking scum.

That's not a metric, you are trying to be too right again, and Toffee is doing the same thing on gibus.

Difference: My argument is good.

[Vivax]

The ghastly gibus is a tf2 halloween hat, not the harry potter one.

[Vivax]

How did this day suddenly turn to me being -3 and just as suddenly turn into two guys voting for each other and vying for my hand?

This entire progression feels unnatural.

Gibus why did you vote BBT? I think his inquiry was rational.

I've definitely answered all of his queries sufficiently, but he makes no attempt to reconsider. Town is never that confident on scumreads.
It seems like he's doing everything in his power to throw hade at my iso (try hard entry for example, which obviously isn't genuine town thought process)

I am conflicted by this post.

Town is never that confident on scumreads.

Unsure how you can have this mindset and also think Corwin and Vivax are both town. Those dudes have spent 98% of this game confident that each other are scum with the flimsiest arguments and you think they're TvT. (I agree btw, I also think they're probably TvT), but BBT is scum for being confident. The defensive vote with this as the reason is iffy.


The thing here conflicting me is that I feel BBT's push on Gibus is quite forced and I don't mind the rest of Gibus's reaction - but this stands out to me.

Confident even after I provided adequate answers that dismantle his reasoning- it's not the same.

Best you could explain imo is how you got to word town read as white knighting.
Because white knighting, also called simping has nothing to do with town reading.

[Vivax]

I see. We didn't use that back at my community.
So, what's with the gibus votes?

And that pseudo-scumslip by Crescent everyone seems hung on, isn't one. The expectation that vig can shoot again isn't scummy.

[Vivax]

@Vivax i haven't done jack squat RE: reread. here's the thing: talk.

i find toffee scummy to null to town, goldfish was green to null. toffee praised and townread a whole lot, which.... i'm kinda on the fence about. and you: I have my reasons. So my vote's gonna be towards you 4 now, that's just how it is.

UNVOTE: Vivax

You can vote however you want.

Forcibly finding better reasons than I already have won't change anyone's mind, I'm in low effort mode and won't mind some casual talk, but I have a hard time taking the game seriously at this point.

[Vivax]

@Vivax wou;ld u rather vote toffe or geraintm/?

I suppose Gera, though I think his abrasiveness makes hin town.

[Vivax]

Might be worth voting NM again just to have something funny to read.

[Vivax]

Good play by gibus here with the sandbagging then.

[Vivax]

You have a red check on me or what is that, gibus?

[Vivax]

I want to know why gibus is withholding his result.
Or why he's alive.

Do framers affect investigators too on this site?Or just cops.

[Vivax]

What? I thought gibus claimed cop.

[Vivax]

I can protect and check the same person every night

[Vivax]

Oh, he must be bluffing. Cute. But doesn't always work on me.

[Vivax]

What happened to the old someone is mafia because they are caught pretending to be town?

[Vivax]

Oh I see what you did there.
I'll play, not intent to hammer tho.

VOTE: geraintm

[Vivax]

You put a ruler over the rows in your list. Ockham would be proud.

[Vivax]

Cresc talked the most and voted the least together with geraintm (minus the talking).
So we don't have to split hairs over the ruler thing.

[Vivax]

Eira

Vivax gun to head right now who do you think are the last 2 scum?

I'll make a guess about that when I figure out wtf gibus is doing.

[Vivax]

And I believe he's around and lurking considering my entry point.

[Vivax]

Cresc talked the most and voted the least together with geraintm (minus the talking)

.
So we don't have to split hairs over the ruler thing.

[Vivax]

And you want to imply that's the mafia, but you're not giving a lot of rope there.

[Vivax]

The rest of the discussion that goes on didn't suggest much in the AI ​​sense. Feels like almost everyone who posted so far is literally dancing in null variations tbh.

I need to read more to be able to infer something more expressive, which implies the need for more posts, interactions and etc.

VOTE: clidd

Whats wrong with that post? I thought it made sense.

it contributes nothing and draws no one out, basically stating the intent to lurk until others do the work yet in a flowery and overly-convulated manner.

That said, @geraintm has offered no qualifier to the vote, other than the fact that @clidd has voted fro them(which they did not explicitly state). Their reply to @clidd's vote in itself was a defense of their method, so where does the decision to vote clidd come in? Is the above post decisive enough a motivation?

You get a naughty point for defending me

Sell me this as a mafia post.

[Vivax]

Oh I see what you did there.
I'll play, not intent to hammer tho.

VOTE: geraintm

I do not see what you see

That's possible. But I found it the most likely explanation for that vote salad followed by sorting followed by a vote on you.

[Vivax]

Do you know what this is. Because it's not a shitpost science diagram.

[Vivax]

If you find that out, I'll start pretending I don't want to kill Corwin and Cres.

[Vivax]

UNVOTE: geraintm
VOTE: Not_mafia

Nobody simply said Laplace's law. Bugger.

[Vivax]

Lol. Bummer I meant

[Vivax]

Unfortunately this input leads to a different output than I was used to on the previous site.
When I realize that, I give you output, not input.

[Vivax]

Unfortunately this input leads to a different output than I was used to on the previous site.
When I realize that, I give you output, not input.

k sure but saying u want cres and cor dead then to switching to a nm vote is a big leap. you saying you're not gonna explain any of this?

I'm just too lazy to go back to find where he posted the avatar I want to use now, so I'd like to flip him and take it from there.

[Vivax]

ah so one pr calling another scum takes back seat got ya

Which PR is calling someone scum.

[Vivax]

Gibus didn't claim anything. He just said he was on Cresc, then put down a vote on me, and left to go into background mode. I don't see a priority on his own survival there, and I don't want to hit another town PR.

[Vivax]

... are you.... Genuinely just not reading the same game we are? Did you not read ANY of my posts? God. That actually makes me angry.

VOTE: Vivax

[Vivax]

UNVOTE:

[Vivax]

Then maybe we should just launch everyone

[Vivax]

Guess we'll have to start with you then.

Have you ever seen a cow fly?

[Vivax]

We will find out via launching one into space. Whether it be you or NotMaf is the question.

All of us are not_mafia

[Vivax]

i think N_M is probably not present. i mean, with this level of teat wobblin' one thinks theyd be here

I genuinely can't understand why NM is allowed into games, but I've given up on trying to figure it out. At this point it's either him or Vivax. Vivax failing to address... Well,

anything whatsoever

directed to him so far today (and then jumping from Gera to NM, while still saying Corwin and I are scum) reeks of trying to dodge because he knows the case isn't there.

You should understand why NM is allowed into games. I'm his new substitute. We should find a better mislaunch, Crescent.

[Vivax]

Speaking of dodging..

You're just mad I stole the portrait he intended to give to you.
But it's not too late.

[Vivax]

i mean vivax never you voted gibus and gibus only voted vivax start d3. not enuff but i'm throwing it out there.

You're wrong, look:

VOTE: gibus

[Vivax]

i mean vivax never you voted gibus and gibus only voted vivax start d3. not enuff but i'm throwing it out there.

You're wrong, look:

VOTE: gibus

cool cool so ur trusting elsa on this?

They have my full support.

[Vivax]

And you only do this after you make me angry enough to vote you? That just feels like distancing.

Do you need to be angry with someone to vote for them?

[Vivax]

well there's still many options on the table

The game is virtually unwinnable if Vivax/NM are both town is the issue, just by the numbers.

what i'm saying is i'm gonna use my time to analyze, and right now N_M and Vivax aren't my only options.

Gibus is theoretically not a "bad" vote, nor is Gera.

Though something about voting Gera off doesn't sit right with me and I just can't explain it.

He is also not_mafia, our best bet would be either gibus or elsa. Alternatively, sheep elsa and kill me. You don‘t talk a lot to Eira either.

[Vivax]

Honestly kinda all I want to do anymore is come to a consensus of which of Vivax/NM to kill and then VLA until day 4.

Game can't get anywhere with 2 noncontributing player spots. No amount of getting mad or yelling can fix that.

Lol non-contributing player slot. That‘s cheeky

[Vivax]

[quote="In post 2043, Not_Mafia"]

F

I

G

H

T

T

H

E

R

E

A

L

E

N

E

M

Y

!

VOTE: Vivax

[Vivax]

UNVOTE: Vivax

Couldn‘t resist

[Vivax]

Your egos can't handle my existence.

[Vivax]

I'm bigger, bluer, faster, better than not_mafia

[Vivax]

I still don't know what brought this personality shift from you. It's weird.

What personality would you like.

[Vivax]

I'm flattered that no matter where I play off TL, people go to such lengths to test me.
It's the best reward a town player can have.

[Vivax]

Yes I know that strictly speaking math diagrams are not the same as science diagrams, thank you very much

I think you should play and I should host.

[Vivax]

I think you should be eliminated

Surely not a coincidence for you to say this with the same avatar.

[Vivax]

Snooker loopy nuts are we

Careful, it could be contagious.

[Vivax]

With a load of balls and a snooker cue
Pot the reds then screw it back

[Vivax]

Intent. But I'm going to give at least two others a chance to slow it down.

Vivax, any last words?

Hope you roll town next time.

[Vivax]

Oh durr I forgot Gera exists. Vivax/Gera is also a possible team. Vivax even said when he voted Gera earlier today that the vote wasn't serious and he still wanted to kill me and Corwin for reasons he has never quantified.

NM could be scum with most people. I feel like it's very limited who could be scum with Vivax.

Why is it when anyone mentions Gera they also have to mention they forgot he exists?

He should try to be more memorable!

What should I do?
Troll my votes
Not post at all
Post in colour?

Find another song to reflect the situation. Fan the craziness.

[Vivax]

Happy birthday Crescent.
Don't let this game distract you, or Eira munching popcorn in the background.

[Vivax]

Like I said I can vote gibus. I just don't think they play like mafia, but you refuse to budge.

VOTE: gibus

[Vivax]

Vivax can flip town but has directly violated the golden rule of "playing to win" if he does. Not a damned thing we can do about that so..

If you and Corwin are scum you literally flamed each other in game after I called you scum?
Glass houses and such. Also, I immediately unvoted myself. Stop digging for a crappy reason to frame me lol.

[Vivax]

I'm not responsible for you being so easy to make feel defeated. Well, I am maybe. But that's part of the game.

[Vivax]

I'm not responsible for you being so easy to make feel defeated. Well, I am maybe. But that's part of the game.

blergh

More should listen to not_mafia when he gives them an avatar on the way to the rocket pad.

[Vivax]

Vanilla town.
Take that, Eiralox.

[Vivax]

Now that I‘m irrefutably confirmed town, I will just sheep Elsa.

[Vivax]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: not_mafia

[Vivax]

Eiralox had a huge tonal shift and the vote is awful.
Maybe I'll push to kill NM/Eira next. But first I'm going to enjoy off work irl for a while.

[Vivax]

Eira today looked like a pent up bottle that exploded but whatever came out seemed like misdirective gibberish.

[Vivax]

I'll vote whomever crescent votes

Is this simping or sheeping?

[Vivax]

I think this day has been ok so far. I don‘t see where town has been self destroying. Trolling around a bit was fun.

[Vivax]

This is actually kinda fascinating.

Vivax: Gibus, NM, Elsa, Eira
NM: Gera, Elsa, Vivax, Corwin

We've now had two trains go -1 and there is only one overlapping person between them. I'm of course the only person who has voted neither.

Not sure what, if anything there is to read out of it though. I'm kinda busy at this very moment anyway.

That constellation is screaming Eira + NM.
Good one there.

[Vivax]

Geraintm is my only possible partner if I'm mafia.

[Vivax]

Snooker loopy nuts I like it.

[Vivax]

Fwiw, if having 2 protective roles is mathematically imbalanced,

I think today's launch should be either Elsa or me.

That should guarantee that we reach 4player lylo with 1 scum worst case.

This is obvious town.

Bad town or trolling town, but still town.

[Vivax]

Mmm no, I take that back.
Guess I could do a gibus launch. Elsa is too solvy compared to gibus to launch.

I just think the snooker loopy nuts thing was NM outing himself in subtext when I voted for him.

[Vivax]

Hey NM.
My only possible partners if I'm mafia are geraintm and Crescent. They didn't hammer me at L-1.

Might want to point that out.

[Vivax]

Hey NM.
My only possible partners if I'm mafia are geraintm and Crescent. They didn't hammer me at L-1.

Might want to point that out.

Why is that?

Because you look like a deer in the headlights

[Vivax]

Crescent that's an impressive improvement over your D1. If I didn't know any better, one could think your alignment changed.

[Vivax]

VOTE: Eiralox

[Vivax]

That vote sure seems random.

Why her?

She scum.

Not_mafia, there's something I can't wait to show you after the game. You seem like you are able to appreciate.

[Vivax]

Also look at the crying clown ffs.

[Vivax]

It's almost comical how one of the rhombusses on top is coloured black.
One down, two to go.

[Vivax]

Uh

One's been down for a while. If you're gonna shitpost, you gotta pay attention to these things.

Why, just why do you among others have to call every post that doesn't obey a standard template a shitpost.

[Vivax]

eh vivax you do you. crescent is the only hard town read i have atm. if crescent is scum well played.

@gera u didn;t read my posts. i said back then i trust none ya'lll, and said elsa only seems green by votes.



i have many arguments for scum elsa. gibus has finally spoken, and at this point...... if we mob gibus and gibus is doc, chances of elsa scum are.... hmmm. high? N_M hasn't said uch of not other than bein high IQ, Vivax is still a pumpkin. So Gibus/NM Gibus/Vivax still on table for me.

As i've mentioned twice before and as crescent said, Elsa/gera makes sense,

-Fin-

You do you? Again? Did you think I wouldn't notice? xD

[Vivax]

Whatever we're playing this is far beyond mafia

[Vivax]

Whatever we're playing this is far beyond mafia

Did you ever hear the tragedy of Not_Mafia The Wise? I thought not.

It’s not a story the Town would tell you. It’s a Scum legend. Not_Mafia was a Godfather of the Scum, so powerful and so wise he could use the source code to influence the bbcode to create votes…

He had such a knowledge of the source that he could even keep the ones he cared about from launching. The source of the bbcode is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did.

Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself.

I am not a materialist

[Vivax]

Fan of Sheldrake though. The singularity will be fun.

[Vivax]

from posts i've seen vivax was very hesitant to form reads on anyone not GB or Corwin. Defense of Owen and gibus doesn't look good. many posts i can frame from the viewpoint of scum looking to see who's informant instead of town looking to see who's scummiest. votes on corwin poor reasons.

You thought the opposite on D1.
You were enraptured.

[Vivax]

?

Ok then.
That back and forth between clidd and you around the end of the phase, what was that?

[Vivax]

Quoting? Page 37.

[Vivax]

I think you're scum with NM. Anything else?
Who am I scum with? What happened to your writing?

[Vivax]

I didn't dodge gibus? I think he's the least likely to flip scum of you three, but I trust in my Elsa townread enough to sheep. I'm coming around to Cres town. I work with my town core.

Who's your town core?

[Vivax]

Also interesting:

Vivax gets votes, NM is on the train that puts him -1
NM gets votes, Vivax is on the train that puts him -1

Both are now voting Eira together and the reasons are super shoddy. Uh....

Shoddy to you*
I don't think you help anyone by just sowing distrust. Make your mind up.

[Vivax]

Also interesting:

Vivax gets votes, NM is on the train that puts him -1
NM gets votes, Vivax is on the train that puts him -1

Both are now voting Eira together and the reasons are super shoddy. Uh....

Shoddy to you*
I don't think you help anyone by just sowing distrust. Make your mind up.

I've given two specific teams I believe it most likely to be and now someone who's on neither team suddenly has 2 votes that essentially came with no reasoning. At first I was letting it go as joke posting given how this all started, but...

The reasoning was the VCA you posted.
Forgetful are we?

[Vivax]

Whatever we're playing this is far beyond mafia

Whatever you are playing....

Like, I get not Mafia 'so thing, this is him. Useless but him.

But you, you aren't normally like this are you?

I want a vote count

How would you know what I normally am like? My thoughts to voice process is a lot different and difficult to apply than thoughts to text. There is anarchy on paper.

[Vivax]

Whatever we're playing this is far beyond mafia

Whatever you are playing....

Like, I get not Mafia 'so thing, this is him. Useless but him.

But you, you aren't normally like this are you?

I want a vote count

How would you know what I normally am like? My thoughts to voice process is a lot different and difficult to apply than thoughts to text. There is anarchy on paper.

Sorry, I didn't realise this was your first game, I assumed you had played before, and played better before[/quote]

Better against whom is the question.

[Vivax]

we talk ourselves into some big brain plays.

That's the problem.
If you spend enough time on it, you can picture any scenario possible. There is such a thing as overthinking it.

If you start from Crescents analysis of the wagons and look at Eiras activity explosion before, you should think that Eira is mafia no?
Or why did NM do his big flashy post voting for me?Is that in any way similar to how he played on D1?

[Vivax]

Magic powers tell me you are the giraffe.

[Vivax]

Don't really think it's gibus unless that's top notch acting on the last few pages.
Elsa is just too cool among the flak.
You are grumpy.
I don't know what Corwin is doing besides implying I'm some kind of source code god when I can barely write a few lines in C.
Geraintm had his sharp tongue got.

Eiralox and NM are headless chicken pushy mode and mafia.

[Vivax]

^ that

Spoiler:

Vote Count 3.2

Vivax (4):

gibus, Elsa Jay, Not_Mafia, Eiralox

Not_Mafia (1):

geraintm

Crescent (1):

Corwinoid

Not voting (2):

Crescent, Vivax

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to launch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2022-06-30 12:40:00)

Notes:

• Yes I know that strictly speaking math diagrams are not the same as science diagrams, thank you very much

Vote Count 3.3

Not_Mafia (3):

geraintm, Elsa Jay, Vivax

Vivax (1):

Eiralox

Not voting (4):

Crescent, Not_Mafia, gibus, Corwinoid

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to launch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2022-06-30 12:40:00)

NM/vivax is by far the most outlandish conclusion to come to as town

It's clearly gera's attempt to derail my 1v1 with elsa.
How does town see 2 dudes putting each other at e-1 and call them a scum team.

In general, why shouldn't two at -1 be a scum team?
When you work with a town core in your mind, you can rule it out.

[Vivax]

I don't know what Corwin is doing besides implying I'm some kind of source code god when I can barely write a few lines in C.

I've spent the last day defending you and trying to get you back into the game. Some help with those would be fantastic.

My top scum team right now is Elsa/Crescent, and I need some help getting the gibus wagon halted before we mislaunch again.

If I'm right there's a town nexus that can be formed between you, me, nm, and gibus that can't lose, but I need town you in the game.

I don't see NM town with the weird tunnel on me, though it was entertaining.
I suppose geraintm's silence could be a harbinger here.

[Vivax]

^ that

Spoiler:

Vote Count 3.2

Vivax (4):

gibus, Elsa Jay, Not_Mafia, Eiralox

Not_Mafia (1):

geraintm

Crescent (1):

Corwinoid

Not voting (2):

Crescent, Vivax

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to launch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2022-06-30 12:40:00)

Notes:

• Yes I know that strictly speaking math diagrams are not the same as science diagrams, thank you very much

Vote Count 3.3

Not_Mafia (3):

geraintm, Elsa Jay, Vivax

Vivax (1):

Eiralox

Not voting (4):

Crescent, Not_Mafia, gibus, Corwinoid

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to launch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2022-06-30 12:40:00)

NM/vivax is by far the most outlandish conclusion to come to as town

It's clearly gera's attempt to derail my 1v1 with elsa.
How does town see 2 dudes putting each other at e-1 and call them a scum team.

In general, why shouldn't two at -1 be a scum team?
When you work with a town core in your mind, you can rule it out.

Because elsa/me can auto win if the bus on the roleblocker succeeds, given gera doesn't think either of us are scum.

I don't know which hat you pulled that from, but I don't think there was a head under it at the time.

No one can auto win with a bus.

[Vivax]

There's a consensus that there's 1 scum in me/elsa.
If gera has a solid reason for both of us to be town, it's an auto win or close.
Otherwise it doesn't make sense to not vote for us today.

It's a nonsense consensus. A nonsensus

[Vivax]

VOTE: not_mafia

[Vivax]

Stop trolling, repair your butts and play the game.
Growl gnarl something.