Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[fireisredsir]

Why aren’t you scum this game fire?

i don't think im really capable of maintaining a consistent town thought process through this whole game and the hood with kovu. like, ask me what i was thinking at any point in the game and im p sure i could tell you. most of my thoughts are in the thread or in the hood anyway and i think my process is clear enough already. as scum im decent at live interaction and engagement but im bad at making fake cases on people and controlling the game. my play this game has basically been the opposite of that due to the postcap, ive been way more wall-posty than usual and less live interaction. i think ive cased and pushed people for way more in depth reasoning than i would be able to come up with as scum

as someone who is widely townread d1 and d2 i think i set myself up better for endgame? like i wouldn't have been pushing town for most of d2 and d3 i would have committed to being the deepwolf or whatever and bussed

i don't think i ever kill val here bc 1) me and kovu wanted to push val overnight, and i think you did as well. there's no reason to use a NK on someone in the poe if they're limmable (and plus, i'm immune to his checks). i think scum just literally didn't know that val was limmable bc the hoods are pure and most of the suspicion was in there, and if the hoods are pure, a TA is extra dangerous to them. and 2) if i know that val is a town TA, and he's probably aiming at cakez, killing him immediately makes people paranoid of me/kovu. it shines a spotlight on us that is just unnecessary

i also don't think i would disagree with kovu and argue back with her reads on late d1/early d2 to the point where she blows up the hood and says im scum cause like... that's kind of a predictable reaction. id just be trying to agree with her as much as possible early and then nk her before she flips her read so i don't have to keep up the act

there's probably more things i wouldn't have done here if i were scum but those are the main things that come to mind

[Gammagooey]

I'm around now, went over the last several pages and I'm v. fine with waiting for R&R to actually show up before voting

Probably skipping around while going over things b/c I can and because I don't want to spend an hour+ digging through wallposts for questions if the people asking them don't care about the answers after a day+ has passed. If you actually want a response from me on something I missed throw the sentence into a quote for me and I'll answer it.

@Bell - My pushes to try to get what I've thought were actual decent wagons through the game - pushing for marci, then Enchant/Dwlee when it was clear that wasn't going to happen over my townlean of Lavar D1, pushing on likely scum-Dunn D2 and engaging Lukewarm about his suspicions on gorilla then (though if you're unconvinced about that day in particular given that Dunn+gorilla are still unflipped that's fair), trying to convince everyone to vote out one of Fey/Dunn who are actually likely scum with marci over the distractions of Enchant/Cakez yesterday (and the push for Cakez town because him specifically being bussing-scum with marci just didn't make sense to me given how he was playing the game). There's also my interactions w/ marci - I'm pretty capable of bussing as scum but a) I don't think I'd stay on the marci wagon as scum, and definitely wouldn't bother trying to pull LLD onto her wagon over Lavar the one time LLD shows up here and b) All of #926 #928 and #1375 (ESPECIALLY #1375) by marci I think are p. clearly commenting towards a town player and trying to discredit/downplay me trying to push her.

@fire this is one of the things I'm not sure if it's relevant anymore so I'm spoilering it

Spoiler: response to me disregarding Meuh as a possibility/deepwolf convo

there's an issue with your line of thinking here. you're saying that a deepwolf usually exists, and define it as someone who puts in the effort or the bussing to make it to endgame. but in order to determine who it is, you're looking at the output, not the input. you're saying that because me and kovu are mostly townread, we make sense as the deepwolf. but an attempted deepwolf can't control how they get read, they can only control what they put into the game. and it seems like you're disregarding meuh as a possibility here just because she's in the poe and some people have called her out for scummy behavior. she's still put in the effort and the bussing to qualify

no, I'm not. If Meuh is mafia, her plan was not "defend marci early, bus her later, and live to endgame", because the way she pushed gorilla over marci was weird, and attention-grabbing, and put a neon spotlight on her for casing one person and voting another. If you want to argue that Meuh is scum for pushing a potential miselim on gorilla and hopefully more miselims in the future then that's reasonable, if you want to argue that a scumteam of Meuh/gorilla/marci is possible I very much doubt it but I'd at least be interested in seeing why you think that, but "Meuh bussed marci in that way and expected to get townread and try to outlive almost everyone else in the game" is absofuckinglutely not what happened there.

[Dunnstral]

@everyone Why aren’t you scum this game?

Well it can't be me, I pushed town

[Dunnstral]

For real though, I don't think I make sense in any team because I was almost eliminated on day 3. And I feel like every time the votes are on me the game goes dead silent. There were 2-3 mafia voting me at the same time on day 3

[Gammagooey]

@Kovu - This post is not about your alignment but it is about your play in general - for this post, I'm assuming you're town, putting what I think about your motivations in a box and kicking it into the closet until I'm done.

Jumping to conclusions like you do in the below posts is really frustrating for other people to deal with. I think you very likely don't mean it to be, but it feels like a large chunk of the time when you're talking to people, you've already made up your mind and are barely even reading what they're saying before you start typing up a post with what you think about it. I'm not expecting a huge change now, but I really think you could both have a better understanding of people's reads & thoughts & ideas on the game if you just slow down and think more about the context of what people are saying, or go back over a post or two they're referencing and try a little harder to see things from their perspective instead of immediately posting your thoughts about it.
I really think that it'd not only help your play a bit in general, but also would be a lot more fun to play with - I've definitely played in

less

fun games than this, but ultimately I'd almost always rather everyone enjoy playing in a game than personally win it, and given that around half or more of the game seems like they're having a generally mediocre or bad time I think putting in that little bit of extra effort to make the game more fun for everyone would go a long way.

Spoiler: Kovu

okay, everyone whose name isn't Bell or Kovu, full readslist of all remaining players (you do not need to include us or Bell) next time you're in thread please

~Rhyme

Meuh
Fire
Gorilla
Kovu

---very large gap---

Dunn
Fey

I don't see any plausible scumteam that doesn't have Fey on it and as I've said before Fey+Dunn makes the most sense as a scumpair to me out of anyone. You can tell me Meuh doesn't deserve to be that high or that I'm wrong about one of fire/kovu and I am currently not going to give a shit about it because voting in the above 4 instead of Dunn+Fey is basically throwing a dart into the wind instead of stomping out cockroaches.

Also in addition to meetings my car has also been hit by the U-Haul of someone moving into my apt complex so yeah I'll see ya'll tonight

Ok, so you TR me and gamma, and gamma is convinced I'm a wolf, so like, if your 2 top TRs have conflicting reads, why have you not really said anything? like, Gamma has BEEN vocal about me being the deepwolf, I'm 3rd bottom read for gamma... like, gamma seems pretty set I'm a wolf

.. and you had nothing to say with our interaction?

Also, it took 20 minutes to say "I tr you and gamma" ?? hmmm...

Well, I don't have gamma as a TR, so like yeah.. largely due to how gamma is going at me like "there's probably a deepwolf so it's you!!" but not citing anything... then gamma didn't even respond to my last message..

So gamma is town for "not wanting to rush a vote" and "asking for massclaims" like.. if that's the bar, we should TR everyone else here too.. Like, a player like gamma, putting a bunch of thought into every post, and you're just like "not rushing vote makes them town" idk, I mean, I guess in a way this is helpful cause I TR gamma over you for sure right now, like, I hate all this generic talk... "interactions with maf looked fine" like, this is exactly why I'm SRing gamma. Generic statements not backed up by anything... like, want to give post numbers for where these good posts are? you know.. something to like actually convince me you believe in this tr?

----------

how do you know there's not a deepwolf?

Kovu assuming the absolute worse of everything I say: part 592
Gamma’s logic for a deepwolf boiled down to “scum must have some sort of control over the game” or something of the sort. I’m not saying there is or isn’t a deepwolf, I’m saying Gamma’s logic for it doesn’t make sense. Scum could very well just not be playing that well. That entire point was unrelated to my personal thoughts on whether or not there’s a deepwolf.

you can not claim credit at all day 2 for the marci lim... like what even?? I cased marci, and mala followed, and no one else talked for like the next 6 hours... I read your stuff like "oh day 1?" I'm 100% the reason for day 2 marci going over...

I'm clearly incapable of towncasing myself, I'm just gonna hope you guys magically change your minds.

LMAOOO Kovu holy shit what even
That is not what I said
I pretty clearly cast a vote that lead to a chain of several more votes happening immediately after. I'm not claiming I'm the reason it all went down.

I was interested in actually talking with you earlier when you reached out but it's been infuriating. If you want to engage with me with an open mind we can but this is clearly not productive, which is saying something considering it's most of the discussion in the thread.

----------

we're depending on the votes of two incredibly flaky clears to make any elimination happen.

I mean, we don't have to wait for them, I'm pretty sure Bell would be OK with a meuh lim, even if it's not Bell's #1 choice, but we only need 5 votes, RR will show up at somepoint in the near future, even if it's to dodge a prod, so like, yeah.. we definitely could vote whoever out.. Dunn would vote meuh, you, me and fire are voting, and then literally anyone who wants to hammer. easy. but if yall wanna wait forever for mena's "full thoughts" go for it

we're depending on the votes of two incredibly flaky clears to make any elimination happen.

I mean, we don't have to wait for them, I'm pretty sure Bell would be OK with a meuh lim, even if it's not Bell's #1 choice, but we only need 5 votes, RR will show up at somepoint in the near future, even if it's to dodge a prod, so like, yeah.. we definitely could vote whoever out.. Dunn would vote meuh, you, me and fire are voting, and then literally anyone who wants to hammer. easy. but if yall wanna wait forever for mena's "full thoughts" go for it

Jesus Christ I didn’t fucking say this.

[Rhyme and Reason]

Waiting on R&R apparently they’ll be by on the weekend.

Hopefully. I'm sorry, but I'm really not in a state to contribute to this game without Mena, and he seems to be pretty distracted. I could put in effort but I literally don't think it would help at all.

-Reason

[Kovu]

so... we vote meuh!!!! that is the conclusion I have reached!!

[Bell]

We are legit going to talk over the weekend. @ R&R.

[Kovu]

and for those of us who don't want to wait till monday for "maybe something" I'm saying we should lim meuh.
We have 4 days 6 hours till deadline, and if you want to spend 3 waiting? you do you, but @ everyone going "I'm sheeping the clears" I'm as close to a clear as you're really gonna get for leadership right now, up to yall, it's your vote, do what you want with it, but I'm staying on Meuh, if anyone has opposition to it I'm happy to hear your case, and no I'm not limming gorilla the bg here.

wait if you want, or don't but if you want 3 IRL days of nothing happening... whatever

[gorilla]

and for those of us who don't want to wait till monday for "maybe something" I'm saying we should lim meuh.
We have 4 days 6 hours till deadline, and if you want to spend 3 waiting? you do you, but @ everyone going "I'm sheeping the clears" I'm as close to a clear as you're really gonna get for leadership right now, up to yall, it's your vote, do what you want with it, but I'm staying on Meuh, if anyone has opposition to it I'm happy to hear your case, and no I'm not limming gorilla the bg here.

wait if you want, or don't but if you want 3 IRL days of nothing happening... whatever

It's not that I'm "sheeping the clears",

per se

, it is that we need votes from town to eliminate scum here and scum are not going to bus their own.

The problem is those town votes are removing themselves from the thread. This is making it effectively impossible to accomplish anything. It is a dire situation.

[gorilla]

In fact, having some actual direction makes it more likely they paranoia themselves into thinking this is a nefarious scum plot and decide to kill town instead.

[Meuh]

I don't particularly believe the claim. I guess I'll just say now I'm a bodyguard. I don't think multiple protectives in a game is full-stop impossible: the first setup had two town bodyguards and one mafia one. But a doctor in combination with a bodyguard is a bit weird, even if the doctor is gated.

It's also why I was...not particularly concerned with being townread when I was getting wagoned, because my role has the potential to be self-resolving if I guess the correct nightkill target.

I was on Lukewarm night 1, because he was in my top townreads after Day 1 (how times change), was reasonably active, and didn't seem to be suspected by many people, so seemed a potential nightkill target. Kicking myself for not protecting LLD after she got N1'ed in DEFCON, but I really didn't think there was any chance she'd be the nightkill target after posting only 12 times, which is also why I was theorizing that most of the day 1 wagons were wrong. My invictus had been on dwlee, because I thought it most useful to resolve the counter wagon with the invictus kill.

This is the post of someone trying to distance himself from his partner to avoid getting limmed and more importantly to dodge getting vig shot, which he was being actively threatened of.
This claim is a claim of desperation, it's a claim that's incredibly convenient and most importantly, it's a claim that isn't real.
There's a reason it all lined up, with him claiming after both being threatened to get shot and right after Marci claimed doc. The bg claim wasn't even necessary, Marci was probably getting limmed either way. He claimed because he needed to do something to avoid getting shot. It's all about self-preservation and not at all about advancing the game for town.
Note he specifically claims the person actively saying he'll kill him is the one he protected.
This is an appeal to Lukewarm disguised as a counter-claim, and it worked.
It sets up a 1v1 with scum who has 7 votes on her with a close deadline. Gorilla knew Marci was dying and he knew he was going to follow. He did this purely to prevent dying for the time being. That's why it's not a long-term claim - it was purely about surviving at least for a bit longer.
There is no roleblocker. There never was, and Gorilla wasn't thinking about "what if I have to protect an investigative claim on night 3?", he was thinking "what can I do to not immediately die?" and that was what he chose, it was right. Now we know he was lying and we should do something about it.

[gorilla]

lol who's my scumteam meuh

[gorilla]

i will remind you that counter claiming marci was unnecessary and that i could very very easily have let dwlee get run up and die. getting vig shot was no big deal because i'd be able to invictus in retaliation - no loss

the one peddling desperate nonsense is you because i think you know your role flip will damn you, not vindicate you

[gorilla]

I will remind you that if my team were any of dunn/fey/gamma we'd have hammered you while the clears sat back quaking in fear of having to actually take initiative or make a decision for once.

[Meuh]

i will remind you that counter claiming marci was unnecessary and that i could very very easily have let dwlee get run up and die. getting vig shot was no big deal because i'd be able to invictus in retaliation - no loss

Lmao what
A 1 for 1 is absolutely not worthwhile for the scumteam, especially if they lose one of their most engaged players (which I assume you'd be)
I 0% believe that you'd be okay with taking one for the team, especially when there's literally no downside to trying your hardest to survive there???

[Meuh]

I will remind you that if my team were any of dunn/fey/gamma we'd have hammered you while the clears sat back quaking in fear of having to actually take initiative or make a decision for once.

Ahh yes, the classic play of outing the entire scumteam before melo. Of course. and this is even assuming you/Dunn/Fey would all be online at the same time and able to coordinate this, which might not even have happened. I don't get the point here, "if I was scum I'd be outing the entire team right now!"

[gorilla]

taking a 1 for 1 is fine when there was an enormous risk of the elim swinging off town dwlee onto another member of the scumteam.

you're losing sight of your own narrative. why if i assume that i'm going down do i sit back and do nothing and let my teammate get wagoned and then counter claim them? you say it's "desperate", but if i were so desperate, why would i just not...take the elim on town that was sitting in front of my face?

[gorilla]

you're outing yourself right now and it's telling how much time and attention you're spending on trying to kill me

[Fey]

I’m just vibing until the clears talk about what they wanna talk about. Waiting for a VC too.

[Fey]

I’ve softened on my gorilla read a bit too which is a hm moment. I think the claim thing is pretty counter-intuitive unless gorilla expected to die eventually. Which... eh?

[Fey]

I guess I default to Meuh/Dunn and then like...? Go back to Gamma who was just chilling on the counter wagon D1...???

[Fey]

Doing due diligence on Kovu seems like a lot of work frankly even if I feel I should skim...

[Meuh]

taking a 1 for 1 is fine when there was an enormous risk of the elim swinging off town dwlee onto another member of the scumteam.

you're losing sight of your own narrative. why if i assume that i'm going down do i sit back and do nothing and let my teammate get wagoned and then counter claim them? you say it's "desperate", but if i were so desperate, why would i just not...take the elim on town that was sitting in front of my face?

Here's the vote count on the top of the page you claimed.

Vote Count 2.7

FLAVOR

"Cyber Rodeo was good, great, but we can do even better. For Selah, we've got to do it bigger. Cyber Rodeo was a landmark for Tesla and for Austin, but the true founding of Mother Hive Amestris-א0 will be a celebration for all mankind."

"Well Elon, that would be nice but right now it's just a bunch of rocks. I'd also prefer to lay low for a bit after the last Cybertruck debacle. That's already thrown off our plans for the Selah Gigafactory, since we've already delayed the manufacturing of that model."

"Rocks...and sand. Sand growth. You'd be surprised at what grows in sand. Anyway, have our people start working on a new festival. You know how these productions work, complementary pieces to our efforts, not inconvenient luxuries. Same themes as always, marketing knows what I like...I shouldn't even have to say who the headliner would be, right?"

"We'll see if he's available, and if not be sure to pay him until he is."

Player	Votes
marcistar (7)	Malakittens (2108), Kovu (2160), Meuh (2187), SirCakez (2188), fireisredsir (2189), Gammagooey (2193), VP Baltar (2197)
Dwlee99 (3)	Fey (1569), Enchant (1587), Lukewarm (1914)
gorilla (2)	Dunnstral (1296), Rhyme and Reason (1301)
VP Baltar (2)	Dwlee99 (1924), Val89 (2150)
Gammagooey (1)	marcistar (1239)
SirCakez (1)	Bell (1906)
Dunnstral (1)	gorilla (2135)
Not Voting (0)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to eliminate.

No elimination has been achieved. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2022-06-12 15:30:00).

Spoiler: Postcount Tracker

Player	Daystart postcount	Reserves
Bell	115	10
Fey	38	10
fireisredsir	89	10
Malakittens	5	10
Lukewarm	119	10
Dunnstral	26	10
Rhyme and Reason	28	10
Meuh	80	10
Val89	28	10
marcistar	57	10
Dwlee99	21	10
Gammagooey	26	10
Kovu	98	10
VP Baltar	120	10
Enchant	27	10
SirCakez	64	10
gorilla	58	10

Posts are capped at 125 posts per slot per dayphase. Please see the Ruleset and FAQ for more information and tips on tracking your postcount.

Marci had 7 votes and no one trusted her claim. She was not saveable. There was no risk of the elim going off Dwlee, it already had.
There was a wagon of 7 people on her.

You counter claimed her because she was dying either way and her red flip would then make you look good. You just capitalized on the situation to try to make sure at least you'd be able to survive.

I don't get your point, there was no elim on town sitting in front of you. Marci was essentially already dead, you made the most of the situation.

[Meuh]

I’ve softened on my gorilla read a bit too which is a hm moment. I think the claim thing is pretty counter-intuitive unless gorilla expected to die eventually. Which... eh?

You have to consider the context of his claim. Marci was about to die, Luke was very clearly going to shoot Gorilla.

Gorilla had 2 options:
1. Literally just die to Luke
2. Claim something in hopes of not dying

There's no downside to picking the second option.

Like it restricted him a bit later, but at the very least he's alive right now, which is more than he could've said otherwise.

Plus it's not like he even could've predicted that there would be another town investigative role to protect, so it's not like he would've always been caught off of this. If Val hadn't claimed and say Bell died, he could've easily just said he was on someone else.

That's without mentioning the idea of scum having a roleblocker doesn't make much sense, considering Bell got to FN on night 1.