Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[Fey]

(Menalque is one of my sweet little scrunklies. He knows me very, very well, and beyond as a mafia player he knows me as a person and how I act and why, which uh... is hard to really verbalize in a game I think lmao, or awkward. To talk about your bond with someone and be like "yeah so I know her this is why she's not mafia...")

[Fey]

is fireisredsir historically bad with keeping up with hoods as scum?

Also like. This kind of feels like a smoking gun to me in the sense that it is so just out of nowhere and it's the innocent, gentle sort of question that a mafia asks regarding their partner. It feels so out of place to me.

[Fey]

I'm pretty positive they wouldn't have listened.

[Fey]

I'm pretty positive they wouldn't have listened.

okay. you know mena better than i do so maybe you're right. what's your point here though?

That he knows how to read me when I get in my feelings better than probably anyone else on this site.

[Fey]

no, that's your point to kovu. what is your point in response to what I was saying?

...? I've already said what I need to. Which part don't you get.

[Fey]

i said that i thought that scum!kovu would probably be able to convince RR to shoot town. since gamma flipped scum, that would just mean anyone but gamma.

kovu would almost certainly be able to convince RR to shoot me. she could just claim I slipped in hood or something

RR shot scum. that makes me think kovu is more likely to be town.

your response to that is that what I said doesn't fit with RR's trajectory on you. how is that relevant to the point i was making?

My point's just that no one would convince R+R and I think it's moot. I don't really get why you're going down this line of questioning.

[Fey]

VOTE: fireisredsir

Ya sorry after that one I'm not gonna get to a mafia!Kovu, if I am bad at the game whatever.

[Fey]

I'll answer what I can for you, if it'll help.

[Fey]

Also one point that I'm not going to linger on for reasons is the uh. Stuff that happened with Gamma. Nod.

[Fey]

im saying that your response to it was bad because it doesn't come from a town mindset. you were just looking for a gotcha and didn't stop to think it all the way through

You're wasting your time talking about a point that doesn't go anywhere though. Why should I entertain it more than a gotcha.

[Fey]

It kinda sucks that 2/3 mafia died outside of wagoning.

[Fey]

Vote Count 1.9

FLAVOR

A cheer erupts from the crowd as Elon takes the stage at the Asimov SuperLARP Conference 2022

"Ladies, gentlemen, aspiring androids and cybergoths, today is a big day! I'm here to announce that our new Gigafactory at Selah will be pumping out our first Cybertrucks starting April 2023!"

He sweats nervously, remembering that the Gigafactory hasn't even been built yet. Probably the government's fault.

"I first thought of the Cybertruck while playing Superman 64 and wishing I was in one of the cars. As you can see, behind me is our latest revision with the "Cybertank" tread modification. So stay on the lookout you January 6ers, you might get up to Capitol Hill yet!"

Laughter erupts and the crowd is enamored. Quick to seize the chance, Elon speaks.

"Here's another thing to get excited for: I have a special surprise for you today! Can I get a volunteer from the audience?"

Player	Votes
LavarManos (11)	gorilla (790), Lukewarm (796), fireisredsir (800), Val89 (803), Meuh (822), Dwlee99 (953), Datisi (962), Bell (1014), Dunnstral (1090), VP Baltar (1123), Enchant (1134)
Dwlee99 (5)	Kovu (1009), Fey (1011), Lady Lambdadelta (1013), Gammagooey (1022), SirCakez (1034)
Datisi (2)	LavarManos (950), marcistar (1116)
Not Voting (2)	Malakittens (130), Rhyme and Reason (964)

With 20 players alive, it takes 11 votes to eliminate.

An elimination has been achieved! Day 1 is over, stand by for resolution.

Spoiler: Postcount Tracker

Player	Daystart postcount	Reserves
Bell	0	10
Fey	0	10
fireisredsir	0	10
Lady Lambdadelta	0	10
Malakittens	0	10
Lukewarm	0	10
Dunnstral	0	10
Rhyme and Reason	0	10
Meuh	0	10
Val89	0	10
marcistar	0	10
Dwlee99	0	10
Gammagooey	0	10
Kovu	0	10
VP Baltar	0	10
Datisi	0	10
LavarManos	0	10
Enchant	0	10
SirCakez	0	10
gorilla	0	10

Posts are capped at 125 posts per slot per dayphase. Please see the Ruleset and FAQ for more information and tips on tracking your postcount.

[Fey]

Switch my name to red if you wanna think about the mafia!me world in that but ehh... helps to visualize.

[Fey]

im saying that your response to it was bad because it doesn't come from a town mindset. you were just looking for a gotcha and didn't stop to think it all the way through

You're wasting your time talking about a point that doesn't go anywhere though. Why should I entertain it more than a gotcha.

it was the first thing on my brain after seeing the flip.

obv it doesn't matter now but i didn't have this 3p planned out from the start like you clearly did, so i was just thinking things through still

Also I just read this and the bolded is literally the like.

Idk how you would even name it.

The thing scum says to the town they're fighting trying to paint them as so nefarious. The cliche sort of line. "YOU were scheming I KNOW IT."

It made me laugh a whole lot.

[Fey]

dueling lavar/marci wagons again let's goo!!!

VOTE: marci

idk if lavar is even a wagon anymore but they should be too

Also want to contextualize fire's day one voting.

Pittering around for a bit as wagons were going on, there's a spurt of three people that vote marci in a row. Fire, as previously having stated wanting dueling Lavar/marci wagons, jumps on (and they were voting Lavar earlier). Not the instigator, but happy to ride the wave.

oh HECK yeah let's go

VOTE: Lavar

Between that vote and here, fire says nothing directly about Marci. What was said prior was mostly small, softer defenses of marci (she's newer, so harder to read; the votes on her are opportunistic in places, etc, she's a little sus, but oh this was better...). A lot more of fire's suspicions in these wagons rested on Lavar, and so the second one is no surprise but now in the context of a scum-flipped marci ... yeah. Yeah.

Stoking the fires of dueling wagons but offroading onto Lavar who's more scummy somehow in the end. Again though, uh...

Fire didn't really do this without initiative, either. It feels like a very safe place for mafia to vote Lavar. It also doesn't really work towards the dueling wagon idea, either.

Lavar dies.

Fire then opens day two and like... none of the marci thoughts/suspicion is there. The info/weight put into dueling wagons is kind of just... wasted?

[Fey]

Cool. So now that we've established that VP Balter is wrong and bad, let's focus on the current game.

LOL

dying

my first reaction to this post was "well, dunn is town" but tbh showing up only after people start pushing on him means i proooobably shouldn't let him off that easy, even though i want to. idk

Also while reading, small post I noticed was that this is the sort of post that feels self-consciously made about a partner. "I can't just outright say that they're town because they're not and if they flip, oh no, so let me hedge even on this small joke post."

[Fey]

she basically doesn't even acknowledge the dunn wagon on d2

No, I didn't. Because I wanted to kill Dwlee and I made that clear -- why should I acknowledge a wagon I didn't want?

You're trying to gotcha me now but if you read back what I was doing on day one/two with my votes is the clearest it gets for me.

Day one: vote literally anyone who wasn't Lavar.

Day two: kill Dwlee.

[Fey]

It was /wrong/, yeah, but saying something out of context like that doesn't really serve a purpose. You're reaching for the lowest hanging fruit.

[Fey]

I'd encourage you to not post in the PT anymore. It's functionally the same thing as HDP. You're the IC and you're (FMPOV) now with mafia who can whisper in your ear. If there's something you don't want me to respond to, you can just ask or what have you.

[Fey]

I was going to vote fire regardless in like, 99/100 worlds. I'd humor anything they had to say wrt you being mafia but my mind wasn't there and I think that my posts previously reflect that I didn't suspect you. It just... didn't make sense to me, looking back at stuff like votes. But then fire made a wack set of posts that pushed me out of "do your due diligence" and into "screw it" mode.

[Fey]

Also, uh. If the team is me/Gamma we have literally zero incentive to kill R+R and I think for all that fire manages to build a narrative (which, tangentially, I think should be worrisome because fire was like, less than a day ago floating around you being scum. They have the "answer" now, because of my vote, but suddenly being able to put together

like every single scum action in the game into a master web

when there was a minimal amount of that foresight before is kind of wack) it ignores the point that like.

If it's me/Gamma:

Killing R+R, shoots Gamma: I am here, left alone and stranded fighting against fire and Kovu. My body of work looks bad. This is the expected Invictus for a R+R kill. The argument is... wifom? Hope to randomly push Kovu since she's not technically clear?
Killing R+R, shoots Fey: The less likely choice, imo, by a mile. Gamma can say that R+R was pocketed I guess, has a better chance to win.

Killing Kovu, shoots Gamma: I am left alive with the person who has kept me alive the entire game. The argument can be made that R+R is pocketed, but it vindicates R+R's suspicion of Gamma and thus... waters down the idea that I am mafia, too? I get to play an endgame with someone in my field, and someone who I have been able to manipulate the entire game.
Killing Kovu, shoots Fey: Gamma gets to argue that R+R was pocketed, play out the endgame.

Like to me it's Very Goofy to think that a team I'm on throws away the entire idea that Gamma is the deepwolf we've been propping up on a night kill like that, knowing what the most likely outcome was. It screws me over and removes like, most factors that were keeping me alive this entire time.

[Fey]

Like why are ya'll ignoring EVERYTHING that I've been saying about Fey for days now about her marci & Dunn interactions where she defends marci and completely ignores Dunn and the cases on him, pushes either entirely or almost entirely town for the entire damn game, and then posts shit like this that's saying "well I think they're scum but I probably still have to deal with fire tomorrow won't that be shitty >_>", like ACTUALLY WHY? It makes no damn sense for that to be coming from town, she's completely ignored everything I've said about marci & dunn both when I said it and how likely town I am because of their interactions with me now that they've flipped, and she's done nothing town for DAYS now and is probably wondering how the fuck you all are just letting her coast and get away with it, it's fucking absurd

this is scum who is legitimately annoyed that town won't let him bus

there's no reason for him to have this emotion here if the alternative is limming town meuh

(Breaking down that entire narrative by fire is... a beast, so if you want specific things responded to let me know.)

I think that framing stuff like this as only ever coming from scum is wack too. Like... everyone in the game wanted me dead. Except the one person whose voice was the one that ""Mattered"". Why wouldn't that be frustrating to scum, even if there are alternatives? The game is infinitely harder if you can't get the easy ones.

Also I think this would be a weird post to make if we were teamed, but that's more my perspective of "I flip and now there are the theatrics of Gamma so valiantly trying to kill me and oh, the town won't listen" lmao.

[Fey]

Why can't that be partnered, exactly?

"I thought my partner was scummy, but we spoke a bit, and now I don't think it's scummy anymore. Gamma is the good one who listened."

"Cakez is the one who isn't like Gamma and because he didn't do what Gamma did, I think this is Bad."

It's literally just townreading their partner because Gamma "dialogued" with them. Which like, is pretty easy to do when you're doing it with one of the few people you can count on to react a certain way.

[Fey]

ok kovu has assuaged my concerns

VOTE: Dunn

people have posted a lot while i was writing but this was vaguely in response to 2611.

i think there's like a classic mental mistake people make where they group people in the game, sort them into bins, and think there must be, like, one scum in each group

like one lurker/coaster, one deepwolf, one powerwolf, or whatever

it sounds nice but its usually not how it works

i think its actually a town mistake more often than not, just bc scum aren't really thinking about the game in that level of sorting. they're picking either who they think are scummy or who advances scum wincon for them to push. but town trying to hero solve is thinking of what makes sense for a scum team playing optimally and positioning beautifully and all that, when scum teams often are just kinda blundering their way along. i think town tend to overestimate the level of planning and coordination that scum teams have. and tbh based on who is left in the poe i don't really feel like the scum team is likely to be super coordinated anyway

thats to say that i think gamma is wrong about kovu but i think its kinda towny that he thinks that. i also think that for similar reasons, he's wrong that meuh and dunn can't be scum together as he said in 2441. he used similar logic of how they were too closely aligned in their position throughout the game and... sometimes that just happens. i don't think thats a valid way of ruling out scum pairings. people don't look at someone after they flip and go, "hey, this other slot followed almost their exact same trajectory and position in the game, they must have been scum partners!" that just doesn't really happen. so im not even sure what the argument is for why two similarly positioned people can't be paired

ok uh

i kinda actually like dunn's latest posts

i think the point about fey's progression on cakez is good actually, the way she went from not really interacting that strongly to what felt like her saying "if you lim me without killing cakez next its a gamethrow" (ik she didn't literally say that but those were the vibes i got) is... not really supported.

i think the point about gamma feeling like he just kind of... decided that two certain people can't be scum together (in this case fey and cakez) without really doing the work to see if that holds up rings true for me. especially bc i had brought up how i felt a similar way about gamma saying that meuh+Dunn couldn't be paired, in 2623, which he didn't respond to btw. I kinda feel like gamma's effort is being spent where it is needed in order to convince, rather than in order to solve. which in turn kind of makes me hesitate and question if i should have been convinced so easily by his case on dunn. im not really sure that it makes gamma scum. but it does make me a little less enthused to follow him onto dunn

so yea, idk, after taking a step back a bit (and reflecting, haha) i kinda am less excited about a dunn lim

and while sheeping conftown onto cakez honestly just sounds lovely, and im feeling the last day of school, ready to relax for the summer, don't do work just float along kinda vibes... im not really sold on cakez either and wouldn't really be able to forgive myself if i compromised on cakez and he flipped town and i didn't fight for a lim on someone that i do actually scumread

someone that ive been rereading a lot of, debating about with kovu in the hood, etc, which is meuh

this post got way longer than i planned bc as i looked further into the things i found to be scummy, i kept finding more, so ima split it into two

so meuh.

sometimes her posts feel genuine and i want to townread her, but i think there's just a few things that i really have trouble getting over and i keep coming back to them. these are the biggest things for me:

1) the start of d2 push on gorilla. its already been pointed out how strange it was, saying that gorilla looks paired with marci and then voting gorilla. but with marci flipping scum i think it might just straight up be tmi. newer scum have that issue a lot i think, where they look for fake associatives with their scum partners in order to tie them together but do it before the partner even flips. the reasoning in 1365 for why she's going after gorilla instead of marci is p weak and her whole response to the pushback on it kind of feels like she realizes she messed up and is going into damage control mode.

2) her progression on marci. 162 and 207 feel blatantly partner-y to me. kind of awkwardly talking around a read, and saying "eh ill have a better read later". for people who to my understanding are friends and have played together a lot, it doesn't feel like a natural interaction at all. she starts off with more of a scumlean, but spends the whole day voting other wagons, quickly finds a weak reason to TR marci in 310, gradually townreads more and more, and then in 822 says the marci lim is bad and votes the counterwagon.

then early d2 she quickly shades baltar for questioning Marci in 1162, says marci is +town for LLD's death in 1176 and 1190, and then in her readlist in 1233 has a much more noncommittal, questioning read of marci. i think this has significant scum motivation bc if someone isn't looking closely, they'll think she just kinda nullreads Marci and is willing to consider her scum, but her action that she is taking in the thread is all counter to that. she is continually pointing out reasons Marci could be town, and not reasons why she could be scum, as if she is arguing against what she already knows to be true.

she then turns hard onto marci in posts like 1289. here she is acting like she is suddenly now convinced marci is scum and and is pulling out every reason she can find. but the thing that makes this feel like it's just planted for cred is that there's zero followup. she pivots this into the gorilla/marci s/s and stays on gorilla. then she hops around other wagons, never voting marci, until finally at the end when it's hard to avoid. the thing that makes this scum is that it isn't accurately recreating a town mindset. if she truly did suddenly find marci as scum and had all of these good reasons, to the point where she's preflipping her onto gorilla, why doesn't she ever contribute to the pressure there? why is she continually pushing other wagons? why does the read on marci seem to come and go in her mind based on whatever is convenient to push at the time? it's just not town

3) still think her play around lavar was just a straight up pocket attempt. i don't really see any way that interaction was pure. i don't think this will be very convincing to anyone else but it seriously stands out to me and it is something that i can't really get over personally

so uh yea i think i want to go back here

VOTE: Meuh

Like literally look at something like this. Fire isn't using anything meaningful to actually slot Gamma as town -- they're falling back on theory and saying "oh, Gamma is making a silly mistake and it's definitely like wrong but it's also town by the way soo it's all fine."

And then you have like a pithy vote on Dunn and then suddenly "oh I actually like Dunn... because Gamma said some good stuff about Dunn. But also I don't know if Gamma's really doing the towniest of things (AND THIS IS SAID RIGHT AFTER SAYING I THINK GAMMA HAS A TOWNY MINDSET FOR MISTAKE-MAKING BTW) so maybe I shouldn't follow but oh well let's just not vote Dunn anymore and look at Meuh, isn't she super scummy look at all these things, let's just move my vote onto Meuh instead."

[Fey]

people have posted a lot while i was writing but this was vaguely in response to 2611.

i think there's like a classic mental mistake people make where they group people in the game, sort them into bins, and think there must be, like, one scum in each group

like one lurker/coaster, one deepwolf, one powerwolf, or whatever

it sounds nice but its usually not how it works

i think its actually a town mistake more often than not, just bc scum aren't really thinking about the game in that level of sorting. they're picking either who they think are scummy or who advances scum wincon for them to push. but town trying to hero solve is thinking of what makes sense for a scum team playing optimally and positioning beautifully and all that, when scum teams often are just kinda blundering their way along. i think town tend to overestimate the level of planning and coordination that scum teams have. and tbh based on who is left in the poe i don't really feel like the scum team is likely to be super coordinated anyway

thats to say that i think gamma is wrong about kovu but i think its kinda towny that he thinks that. i also think that for similar reasons, he's wrong that meuh and dunn can't be scum together as he said in 2441. he used similar logic of how they were too closely aligned in their position throughout the game and... sometimes that just happens. i don't think thats a valid way of ruling out scum pairings. people don't look at someone after they flip and go, "hey, this other slot followed almost their exact same trajectory and position in the game, they must have been scum partners!" that just doesn't really happen. so im not even sure what the argument is for why two similarly positioned people can't be paired

ok uh

i kinda actually like dunn's latest posts

i think the point about fey's progression on cakez is good actually, the way she went from not really interacting that strongly to what felt like her saying "if you lim me without killing cakez next its a gamethrow" (ik she didn't literally say that but those were the vibes i got) is... not really supported.

i think the point about gamma feeling like he just kind of... decided that two certain people can't be scum together (in this case fey and cakez) without really doing the work to see if that holds up rings true for me. especially bc i had brought up how i felt a similar way about gamma saying that meuh+Dunn couldn't be paired, in 2623, which he didn't respond to btw.

I kinda feel like gamma's effort is being spent where it is needed in order to convince, rather than in order to solve. which in turn kind of makes me hesitate and question if i should have been convinced so easily by his case on dunn. im not really sure that it makes gamma scum. but it does make me a little less enthused to follow him onto dunn

so yea, idk, after taking a step back a bit (and reflecting, haha) i kinda am less excited about a dunn lim

and while sheeping conftown onto cakez honestly just sounds lovely, and im feeling the last day of school, ready to relax for the summer, don't do work just float along kinda vibes... im not really sold on cakez either and wouldn't really be able to forgive myself if i compromised on cakez and he flipped town and i didn't fight for a lim on someone that i do actually scumread

someone that ive been rereading a lot of, debating about with kovu in the hood, etc, which is meuh

this post got way longer than i planned bc as i looked further into the things i found to be scummy, i kept finding more, so ima split it into two

Like JESUS CHRIST this is blatant.

[Fey]

Also like, the Val kill makes 0 sense from fire. We were discussing how we thought Val was maf, and his reaction to that town flip was just like mine.. aghhhh

I think it's erroneous to say that kill makes little sense from fire specifically when, iirc the grander picture was that Val could have generated potential clears. That doesn't have a lot to do with fire specifically.

To go on that same logic why do I and Gamma decide to kill R+R?

[Fey]

Like to me it's Very Goofy to think that a team I'm on throws away the entire idea that Gamma is the deepwolf we've been propping up on a night kill like that, knowing what the most likely outcome was. It screws me over and removes like, most factors that were keeping me alive this entire time.

this is easy for you to say in hindsight like "this was the wrong kill to make!!" but you can't have known what RR was going to do. RR basically said he was sheeping gorilla, and if he was true to that, then gorilla's path was a winning path for you. he would flip meuh, shoot you, and then the final lim based on gorilla's plan would be me

like you can say all you want that RR was never shooting you but there just isn't evidence of that in the thread so your scumteam wouldn't actually have any way of knowing that

Please explain the benefits of killing R+R.

If R+R shoots me our "deepwolf" is alive.

If R+R shoots Gamma I've gotten rid of the one person protecting me AND my deepwolf... for what, exactly?

[Fey]

Like literally look at something like this. Fire isn't using anything meaningful to actually slot Gamma as town -- they're falling back on theory and saying "oh, Gamma is making a silly mistake and it's definitely like wrong but it's also town by the way soo it's all fine."

And then you have like a pithy vote on Dunn and then suddenly "oh I actually like Dunn... because Gamma said some good stuff about Dunn. But also I don't know if Gamma's really doing the towniest of things (AND THIS IS SAID RIGHT AFTER SAYING I THINK GAMMA HAS A TOWNY MINDSET FOR MISTAKE-MAKING BTW) so maybe I shouldn't follow but oh well let's just not vote Dunn anymore and look at Meuh, isn't she super scummy look at all these things, let's just move my vote onto Meuh instead."

lmao you aren't even reading my posts at this point you're just throwing everything out to try to get something

i didn't say that i liked dunn bc of things gamma said. i said that i liked dunn because he made good points about gamma being scummy and that made me reconsider my read on both dunn and gamma

I'm literally saying your progression between those two posts makes zero sense because you were like "towny mentality on Gamma" to "hmm I don't know" and then saying Dunn makes some good points, and then IMMEDIATELY pivoting onto someone else to kill instead.

[Fey]

Like this entire game you've found reasons to townread Gamma and Dunn and you make the token efforts to "reconsider" them and pretend you're trying to solve them. And then you just end up going somewhere else entirely after it's all said and done and oh no, town's dead.

Like Jesus when have you seriously tried, in any capacity, to wagon out mafia this game?

When have you not sat on someone for a bit and just jumped off to something else?

[Fey]

My posting at times is sparse and I'll own I've had some shit reads but like my God, the fact that you are able to suddenly able to form an entire narrative after a game of missing the mark repeatedly and not be instantly voted is fucking mind boggling to me.

[Fey]

Oh right, this was a thing too, like, scum had no need to campaign for an enchant lim? uhh I need to see the other wagons at the time

ok I just had a thought, maybe it's dumb but hear me out

am i 100% convinced enchant is maf? no, not at all

when i try to imagine what scum teams there could be, is enchant on the vast majority of them? yes

does enchant 100% need to be resolved before elo? yes

and the thing I realized is... even on the off chance that enchant is town here, im pretty sure scum would actually want them not to be limmed? like, think about it. if we flip someone else today, im guessing a lot of the town will be heading into the night with invictus on enchant. i know i probably will. people are tired of hero shots, and just want to narrow the poe. it makes sense. but thats actually shielding for scum. if they know that enchant is town, then they want everyone's invictus on them because invictus shots are much harder to predict compared to their ability to influence the lim during the day. limming enchant removes that shield and makes it harder for them to feel safe with their night kill

and the pretty likely alternative is that enchant is just scum. so it's a win win

VOTE: Enchant

It's hopping from one town wagon to the next. It's the sort of thing you fake to say "oh I have cold feet on one, but this other one (with frankly a lot less reason to be townread at the time)? This is good stuff."

It's all performative. You get the benefit of looking townier and not just riding the wave mindlessly.

[Fey]

to borrow a line from Conan Doyle as we've been working on that in my classes recently: once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth

I think there are plenty of things that Fey has done that make it

improbable

that she's town -- but the one thing she did has made me think that it's almost

impossible

that she's scum (again, unless she's completely changed what she does when playing)

and so that one thing is more important fmpov than all the other stuff

~Rhyme

(I'd still take a cop check though just because committing to anything with this degree of support makes me incredibly paranoid bc sadly I still have an ego and don't want to be dead wrong in front of everyone)

Like I'm gonna fall back on this and you can point and say "oh but he was paranoid here"

but please just read the fucking bold.

And ask again why in the world do I kill R+R again, knowing I more than likely survive the shot?

[Fey]

Like to me it's Very Goofy to think that a team I'm on throws away the entire idea that Gamma is the deepwolf we've been propping up on a night kill like that, knowing what the most likely outcome was. It screws me over and removes like, most factors that were keeping me alive this entire time.

this is easy for you to say in hindsight like "this was the wrong kill to make!!" but you can't have known what RR was going to do. RR basically said he was sheeping gorilla, and if he was true to that, then gorilla's path was a winning path for you. he would flip meuh, shoot you, and then the final lim based on gorilla's plan would be me

like you can say all you want that RR was never shooting you but there just isn't evidence of that in the thread so your scumteam wouldn't actually have any way of knowing that

Please explain the benefits of killing R+R.

If R+R shoots me our "deepwolf" is alive.

If R+R shoots Gamma I've gotten rid of the one person protecting me AND my deepwolf... for what, exactly?

you really need me to explain the benefits of killing a conftown before elo? RR is smart enough to know that if he survives to elo AS CONFTOWN SINCE D2 then he's there bc he is useful to scum. you cannot seriously be pretending like you don't know this, thats ridiculous

Acting as if being conftown alone is a saving grace that requires a kill is ridiculous and you know that.

I will not argue that the slot is incapable of re-evaluating but by everything said at that point, the idea that R+R would reconsider on me, specifically, is lower than it is on another player. They would do so, yes, but reaching a different conclusion

with a now-dead Gamma

weighs it far more in my favor.

[Fey]

I'm at the point of crying so I'll just come back later, whatever.

[Fey]

You started most of the suspicion on her and then you voted Lavar.

You've been pushing for me like, most of the game but never make a meaningful effort. You never even vote me -- the like what, two times you vote scum? You

almost immediately find a reason to jump off despite your suspicions.

They vanish. They become dull in the face of shinier choices.

It's all just fucking acting.

[Fey]

Like whatever I can't fucking help myself from posting but it's so obvious that everything was just token efforts. Fake "oh but what if... oh my feet are cold... but what if this person was scum" and there's nothing real behind it. The few times you're "right", you find a way to not make those things matter.

Whatever!!!!!!!

[Fey]

You come into today with the silly gotchas, write up like a literal narrative that you somehow couldn't see all game despite also apparently being right and pushing the right things and protecting the town, blah blah blah. It takes me physically confirming myself before somehow you open your eyes to whatever's been happening while ALSO spending thousands of posts solving with someone, which is a luxury in this game that you put to waste.

[Fey]

I will not argue that the slot is incapable of re-evaluating but by everything said at that point, the idea that R+R would reconsider on me, specifically, is lower than it is on another player. They would do so, yes, but reaching a different conclusion with a now-dead Gamma weighs it far more in my favor.

based on what RR had said in thread to that point, he had wanted to follow the gorilla plan. which, again, would be winning for you

R+R said they wanted to kill Meuh based on dead people's reads.

How is that winning beyond getting my team (1) miselim.

We'd still have to fight through fucking ELO.

[Fey]

You've been pushing for me like, most of the game but never make a meaningful effort. You never even vote me -- the like what, two times you vote scum? You almost immediately find a reason to jump off despite your suspicions. They vanish. They become dull in the face of shinier choices.

this doesn't really make sense as a response btw bc if im scum then you're town. but here you're treating my lack of push on you, scum, as reason for me not being town and not pushing scum

...???????

I'm literally saying that you're only being ""right"" now on me as a gotcha rather as anything that actually matters. You're going "oh look at me, I was right back then, darn".

In a world where I'm scum and you're town you've decided to not try harder to kill me for... some reason? Didn't even vote me?

Which doesn't make sense for town you.

[Fey]

It's literally just "oh I was right all along teehee silly me. But now I can make it right, and kill you!"

(The mafia wins!)

[Fey]

Quoting the masterpost of whatever gorilla thought doesn't matter when

in application

the only part that RR actually cared about was Meuh. There's no reference to the rest of it in the moment.

[Fey]

Going to close thread now so I don't get sick

Bye.

[Fey]

You were wrong.

gg.

[Fey]

w/e my fault.

[Fey]

Sigh.