Micro 1055 - Trolled

[Radical Rat]

mwahahahahah

VOTE: Flea The Magician

[Radical Rat]

I'm glad I don't have the restriction on posting.

I shall pray for you.

I would like to point out two things in case you didn't notice. One: Town wins if all threats to us are eliminated,

and

we still have

two

townies alive. Between that and night start, that basically means we have very little room for error. The other thing to note is this:

The_Evil_Within is a Priest.

Thats fair

TEW making me ew.

VOTE: The_Evil_Within

[Radical Rat]

I'm glad I don't have the restriction on posting.

I shall pray for you.

I would like to point out two things in case you didn't notice. One: Town wins if all threats to us are eliminated,

and

we still have

two

townies alive. Between that and night start, that basically means we have very little room for error. The other thing to note is this:

The_Evil_Within is a Priest.

VOTE: MegAzumarill

I'm glad I don't have the restriction on posting.

[Radical Rat]

I didn't vote for Roden.

What the fuck.

... There goes my last post.

Val89

died Night 0. Role:

Spoiler:

Town Pretender

Your role: Pretender:You should not use the words "I","me" and "mine". Exchange "I" with "We","me" with "Us" and "mine" with "Our". Do not use your name instead. These rules do not apply to quotes(exceptions:you should neither add "I", "me" and "mine" to quotes, nor abuse this provision(e.g. by quoting an "I" only)). If you do not follow your post restriction you gain the following compulsive action, active the following night and day: You need to give me a list of people. The person on the top of this list(ignoring dead people) will be the person you will intent to vote at the start of each day, and you will vote them after 48 hours have passed. Both will be public. And

both will be

frozen

. Frozen votes or intents cannot changed until the end of the day. You may change this list at any time, but changes after intent will not change the vote. If you do not give me a list, I will use the player list, modified with your name on top. Your role has hidden powers. If something happens your post restriction - but not its punishments - lapses. If a certain percentage of your posts during a game day violates your post restriction(unless it lapsed) the punishment becomes permanent(you will be informed at the end of the day if that happened).

Your alignment: Town. No special abilities.
You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least two town-aligned players are alive.

Day 1 begins and ends in (expired on 2022-06-05 09:36:00), or earlier.

The_Evil_Within is a Priest.

Vote Count 1.0

Roden (8) Flea the Magician; takotsubo syndrome; Enchant; MegAzumarill; Radical Rat; Roden; Toogeloo; The_Evil_Within;

Flea the Magician (0)

takotsubo syndrome

Yume

(0)

Enchant (0)

MegAzumarill (0)

Radical Rat (0)

Toogeloo

PookyTheMagicalBear

(0)

The_Evil_Within(0)

Not Voting (0)

Abstain (0)

With 8 alive it is 5 to hammer after the first 48 hours of the day have passed.

[Radical Rat]

Kewl.

I suspect
I think
I don't think

Is Town
Is Scum

Eliminate
Protect
Vig
Gated

Readslist

Get in the bin

Towncore
Solve



Dunno if you can quite sections or not. If not just quite this and I can break it down for you

[Radical Rat]

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[Radical Rat]

My role is

Ratties a quote poster?

[Radical Rat]

I trust

Enchant

Flea the Magician

[Radical Rat]

I trust

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takotsubo syndrome

The_Evil_Within

[Radical Rat]

Now I gotta make 30 extra damn posts

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[Radical Rat]

Game is going to be so painful for me.

[Radical Rat]

The_Evil_Within

My role is

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Maybe scum don't have a night kill, that'd be a troll for them, lol. I mean, this is going to be massively difficult with two players on a 23 hour posting cool down, it would be far too easy to just manipulate day play AND have a night kill. It's probably why one person died before game start too. 3 mis-elims puts us in LimLo and that's not even considering one player is a Priest.

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[Radical Rat]

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[Radical Rat]

Abstaining is an interesting option...I assume it's meant to put us back on odds. Is there something else to it?

You were warned... and here are the rules.

General game rules:
1.Follow the Site Rules. This includes not talking about ongoing games.
2.You may have access to private threads (e.g. Mafia factional chat); you can talk about this game there, but you may not quote anything from them outside of the PT. You may not quote any game-related PMs without express permission by your game mod.
3.Play to win this game.
4.Lurking: You will be prodded after 2 days of no substantial contribution(no prod dodging). After 24 hours of an unanswered prod I will search for a replacement(unless V/LA). Four prods in total, or two prods in one day will result in an instant replacement. ASK FOR REPLACEMENT IN A PM.
There might be roles that change your prod range or prod reasons. Being dead is NOT a reason to lurk.
5.Vacation/Limited Access: Tell me when you are going to have limited access. If you have limited access, you will still count as having a prod after 3 days, and you will be instantly replaced after 4 days in total.
6.Weekend: For the purposes of prods and nights, Sunday and Saturday count as 12 hours each.
7.CHEATING:Cheating(breaking site rules, posting while dead, quoting Role PM's without explicit permission, encrypting posts without explicit permission, editing/deleting posts without explicit permission, doing anything obviously against the spirit of the rules) is forbidden. Don't do it.
Setup information:

8.Length of day phases:14 to 7 days.
Length of nights: 2 days. Will usually not end before all replacements are finished.
Other phases will be treated like day and/or night phases, if any.

9. Execution:People may vote to execute someone (e.g.VOTE: Not Known 15) to attempt to execute them during execution phases. Only one execution per that phase. Execution phases are day phases. No Execution is not avaliable. Abstain is. You may VOTE: Freeze if you vote anyone/vote Abstain. If you do, your vote cannot be changed until the day ends. An Execution will be performed if the deadline is reached or if someone gained legal votes from more than 50% of all living players. There may be exceptions to this rule.
10:FINAL EXLO: If, after a Night phase, there are exactly 3 people alive, the game descends into a final Execution phase. No one may be killed during this phase, except for Execution, and someone must be executed that day. The faction that had a member executed that day loses the game.
11:Hammer:As soon as the required number of people for an Execution is reached, the game descends into Twilight.
12:Twilight:Alive people, including the hammered elimination target, may continue to post until the flip.
13:Flip: After the flip the game goes into the next phase
14:Daychat: Scum has Daychat by default.
15:Natural Action Resolution applies. Same priority cycles are resolved by making all actions of the same priority fail(e.g.Roleblocker vs Roleblocker, only both roleblocks fail).
16:Color, Backup Mod color and Vanilla Role PM:

Vanilla Townie

Your role: Vanilla: No role abilities. Your role has no hidden powers.
Your alignment: Town. No special abilities.
You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least two town-aligned players are alive.

Werewolf Goon

Your role: Vanilla: No role abilities. Your role has no hidden powers.
Your alignment: Werewolf. You have a factional chat [HERE]. You have access to factional powers through this chat.
You win if all threats to the Werewolves are eliminated and at least one Werewolf player is alive, or nothing can stop this from happening.

This is my color

#808080). Do not use it.
Contact SirCakez if I am out of prod range.
17:Breaking rules can result in any kind of punishment. Do not break the rules.18:I may add additional rules at my discretion. I will tell everyone via PM if this happens.
18:Setup-specific info:

Nightstart.

General Voting Restriction: No player may cast a hammering vote in the first 48 hours of an execution phase. The votes stay but only a vote(including a re-vote) after 48 hours can hammer. Votes caused by post restrictions and their punishments will be votes after 48 hours.
Anything posted in the Werewolf PT will be ignored by every single post restricion.
You may intentionally(or unintentionally) break post restrictions if you are willing to suffer the punishment.
This game has dead interaction. You are required to post in the dead thread if you are dead, just like you are required to post in the main thread if you are not. Posting restrictions may carry over into the dead thread, all other powers do not. Exception: Someone who does not gain access to the dead pt after dying is out of the game(but may still win). Werewolves are not added to the Dead PT.
This is a game that has exactly two factions. Werewolves, an informed minority starting with 2 players, and Townies, an uninformed majority starting with 7 players.
If there is any event or role that adds loss conditions then you WILL have at least one option that does not give you loss conditions.
Other types of conversions will definitely NOT occur.
Flips are supposed to be accurate.
Role PM's may contain hidden powers, but you will be notified if they do.
Posting and vote restrictions may or may not be public.

Your roles were generated before alignment rolls.

All alignments were rolled randomly, with everyone being rolled having the same chances.

Signup description:Description:This is a very bastard game. The setup is not yet finalized, just like with an upick. I will decide on roles and possibly alignments depending upon the players who join and... well, the game is named Trolled for a reason. You should expect to get a role/and or alignment you don't want to get. Expect post restrictions and other things(but don't rely on that info). Expect this game to be still a mafia/werewolf game, though. This game might have parts you don't dislike. This information will also be provided at the start of the game, probably with more public information.

[Radical Rat]

Enchant

I townread

[Radical Rat]

I doubt mafia will throw away their ability to vote. So not hammering.

Probably,
Maybe,
I have 23 hours to reconsider?

Yes

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[Radical Rat]

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Angels: Flea The Magician, Toogeloo
Demons: Radical Rat, Enchant

I'm not convinced Enchant has the Wallposter role even though Toogeloo claims that the semantics match up. It's very possible the Werewolves have received additional divine inspiration and made a reasonable guess based on what they have. I commented on some earlier Enchant posts that I didn't like. Of the more recent ones, I'm not a fan of 161. It is rather wasteful for starters, and it comes off very much as posturing.

As to why Radical Rat is a demon, it mainly boils down to being an echo. Yes, yes, that's in a sense their role being that have to quote stuff, but they seem too committed to staying in the flow and not offering much commentary of their own. Even if we throw out that aspect of my read due to the post restriction, I'm still not convinced at the reads level that Rat is actually doing anything. Their reads seem pretty consensual and safe.

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[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Roden

[Radical Rat]

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[Radical Rat]

Fuck it, sure. 1v1, let's go.

VOTE: Enchant
VOTE:

FREEEEEZE!

[Radical Rat]

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[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Toogeloo

[Radical Rat]

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[Radical Rat]

viewtopic.php?t=89457&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

17 posts, lets do this.
poster#number

This is the second time I'm doing this because Vivaldi lost my notes.

T#8 - Mech infomation. I find it curious that the role would be designed for pooky, I tend to post more than pooks until they get tunnelled and I have hyperposter. While I can lurk, hyperposter is well within my range.

E#16 - same role. Enchants a lurksack anyway so don't see how this is much of a troll.

E#33 - Additional information on the restriction doesn't apply for the first 2 posts.

E#38 - Surprise at the mass vote on roden. Seems to be wasting the post and has adding nothing beyond limited mech overall.

T#55 - Confirms the first two posts thing, more speculation on setup but given this is a bastard game and my own habits, this is pointless spec. "The point of the game is to get a role card that isn't you" - I'm a hyperposter, I can absolutely hyperpost as you've all seen previously. Worth noting Toogs didn't sign up originally because didn't want a scum role. Pooks is amazing at scum so this makes me think a bit.

E#121 - Enchant does a lot of rule and mech spec, also acknowledge this. Votes to abstain and has said they dislike TEW. Efforting enchant scares the life out of me if I'm entirely honest. This level of mech from enchant is concerning and the acknowledging of the early claim being bad is really throwing me.

T#122 - Minimal mech response.

E#142 - As I said previous, efforting enchant scares me, that there's actually decent posts scares me a little. That said, there's enough content here for me to attempt to deep dive it - only downside is I'm sure English isn't Enchants first language and while they're fluent in it, it can affect my kind of analysis. Word choice and flow here seems quite relaxed if a little thoughtful and frankly I've not seen enchant this genuine and clear in a freaking long time.

T#143 - ELI5 on abstain

T#160 - Naked vote on TEW. Even for toogs this is... lacking.

E#161 - A rare non-hammer for Enchant, on a townie too. Enchant this game is so far off established meta its ridiculous.

T#167 - Toogs in with mech. Problem I'm having with toogs currently is there's nothing really there to look at.

E#168 - ==[]

---

E#174 - The word flow is very broken again and very much back to regular enchant. Again, over explaining enchant scares me but looking back, this is fitting for this game so far. There's no reason for the toog chop given other than the meme and I'm pretty curious as to why.

T#175 - the 1vs1 seems pretty town, but again thats about all there is. Freezing the vote seems a little far imo but again, no reasons given for any of this other than YOLO.

E#196 - Enchant clearly not expecting the 1vs1, not sure how the toog lockon is town for enchant but eh.

T#197 - Playing chicken, but with frozen vote. Am sus.

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[Radical Rat]

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[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Malakittens

I am in mode "nah", so either you follow (which i think is right choice), or tell me something new.

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takotsubo syndrome

[Radical Rat]

So Toogie Boogie, What about this is protown for you to be doing?

[Radical Rat]

Oh ok actually fuck all there.
The hell was that kill o.O

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[Radical Rat]

Y'know what, fuck it. My punishment isn't actually terrible as long as we hit one scum before it kicks in (tomorrow), and the no night kill thing is accurate.

And if we DON'T hit scum today, we're probably screwed anyway, so might as well give us the best chance we've got.

[Radical Rat]

So, firstly, huge thanks to Meg and Flea for helping me to communicate more effectively while following my restriction.

Secondly, the problem I'm having today is such:
I'm not actually convinced Toogeloo is scum, BUT his decisions today have put us in such a tremendously bad position that I can't figure out why Town!Toog would do this. Literally if it weren't for having a known alignment distribution already I'd suspect Jester.

On the other hand, Enchant feels pretty Town to me. From my experience, I think the effort/explanation is less alignment indicative and more indicative of how much he's interested in the game.

Though I haven't actually gone through to reread (which I should do tbh), the vibes I'm getting here feel similar to how Enchant felt in Fusion U-Pick

[Radical Rat]

So yeah, if we must do the 1v1, and unfortunately Toog freezing means we must, I have to vote Toogeloo here.

Another thing worth noting is that if Toog IS Town here... Where are the scum votes? The only team that makes sense for me in that universe given the stalled wagon is Roden/Enchant, because otherwise why wouldn't scum just put him at E-1 and let Enchant take the hammer?

And while Roden's in my maybe pile... Enchant's a townread, as I've already said, so I'm not really comfortable betting on that.

[Radical Rat]

We're stuck in the 1v1 because if Enchant/Toogeloo is TvT, then there are two scum in Me/Flea/Malakittens/Roden, which leaves only three Town actually available to vote. And if I were scum I definitely wouldn't be bussing here.

If either of Enchant/Toogeloo are scum, then we have the votes sure, but at that point it's a 50/50 shot compared to a 25/75 shot.

Although, now that I'm thinking on this, if Toogeloo is scum, the only possible partner is Malakittens. And if both Toogeloo and Enchant are Town, the team has to be Malakittens/Roden, because I know I'm Town, and I just do not see scum!Flea here. If Enchant is scum, the partner could be either Malakittens or Roden.

So Malakittens is present in all but one potential solve, and that's the one I find the least likely to actually be the case...

VOTE: Malakittens

Or this has all been an elaborate scum theater, in which case, well played

[Radical Rat]

I think Roden's vote was hammer

[Radical Rat]

You do not have the hammer. This is a Dead Thread execution phase.

Well THAT'S interesting...

[Radical Rat]

It was.
Does that change how you read anything?

I'm pretty sure Toog is mafia and I'd rather flip there. I feel stuck though because I feel like scum is turning the votes around to save him, but if I'm wrong and Mala flips red then I just look like her partner. Either scum is playing really well or I'm just bad and not paying attention, which tbh is possible.

Idk. I appreciate this game in concept but this feels a bit stacked against town.

VOTE: Malakittens

I'm pretty convinced this is scum.
Feels really weird that you'd go on about how you're sure Toog is Mafia, and scum is diverting to save him, then hammer the counterwagon anyway.

[Radical Rat]

Flea the Magician (0) Toogeloo(Intent to vote after 48 hours have passed);

Toogeloo, talk to me about this

[Radical Rat]

Had you at least like. Talked it through before just going "oh well" and casting a hammer, I wouldn't be as thoroughly convinced it was a scum play.

Obviously, voting Malakittens itself is not scummy, but the way you set it up was like you knew what was going to happen but didn't want to take responsibility for the decision. Also, I already thought you had the best shot at being scum by PoE before Toog pulled his shenanigans yesterday, so this was pretty much just reaffirming that.

As for partners, it's either you and Toog or you and Enchant. Haven't made up my mind which, but I'm still pretty confident on Flea being Town.

[Radical Rat]

I also think it's somewhat disingenuous to portray me voting for Malakittens as an attempt to save Toogeloo. That was a consequence, yes, but I think I made it pretty clear that wasn't the goal and I still thought Toogeloo was likely scum

[Radical Rat]

This is an...interesting, interpretation of my vote. I'd made it clear that I voted Mala in case I was wrong about Toog because then I would look aligned with her if she did flip red. Otherwise it seemed obvious that scum made a play to save Toog. I just thought it was more likely that I was wrong than scum making an open wolf play like that.

Exactly. More concerned about your image than actually eliminating scum.

[Radical Rat]

I wish we could see the dead chat...

[Radical Rat]

I'm here, been a mentally taxing past couple days, sorry.

In any case...

[Radical Rat]

Sorry, I hope you feel better soon Flea. But, what do you need to read?

Toog and Rat both broke their post conditions to shift the momentum to Mala and save Toog. They came into today pretending that didn't happen. Toog says he town leans you but froze his vote there.

I am NOT pretending that didn't happen. All I've said is that that wasn't the primary goal, as should have been obvious from how I was still scumreading Toogeloo

[Radical Rat]

This is an...interesting, interpretation of my vote. I'd made it clear that I voted Mala in case I was wrong about Toog because then I would look aligned with her if she did flip red. Otherwise it seemed obvious that scum made a play to save Toog. I just thought it was more likely that I was wrong than scum making an open wolf play like that.

Exactly. More concerned about your image than actually eliminating scum.

How can scum!me worry about my image of looking scummy if Mala flips scum if I would know she's flipping town...?

Why are you ignoring the part where I said I considered that I could be wrong? Why are you ignoring everything else I said to you as well? You're just spewing that you know what I said is correct at this point.

Because you were lying. You were trying to think of reasoning that made you look town instead of actually looking for anything scummy with Malakittens. And, knowing she'd flip Town, you put in effort to make clear that you didn't think she was scum, and were voting "just in case" you were wrong, to go along with everyone else, in an attempt to absolve yourself of responsibility for the hammer.

I'm not ignoring anything here, just not believing it.

[Radical Rat]

Malakittens' flip has shaken my confidence in that read, plus you're possible partners.

I am NOT convinced Toogeloo is Town, but since I still strongly townread Flea, the only possibilities are You/Toog, You/Enchant, or Toog/Enchant.

Toog/Enchant does, admittedly, worry me, but it's a hell of a play to freeze a vote on your partner like that and try to force a 1v1. Only reason I'm even considering it is because Enchant was actively resisting the 1v1, and as Town I'd have thought he'd take the bait.

So, basically, I'm way more confident on you than either of them. Just as you are apparently more confident on me than Toog.

[Radical Rat]

I did actually miss the vote, my bad on that one.

To your point on you being obvtown if you let the wagon idle... I already made clear that my expectation was that you would discuss things and engage with Town, and maybe you would have been convinced to vote, maybe you wouldn't have. But you made it sound like you were entirely unconvinced, but hammered anyway.

Maybe if it wasn't the hammer vote, Maybe if you gave intent and expressed concerns before casting your vote, I'd townread you now. Or maybe I wouldn't. But none of that really matters when that isn't what happened. All I can say for sure is that right now, I think you're most likely to flip red.

[Radical Rat]

Val89

died Night 0. Role:

Spoiler:

Town Pretender

Your role: Pretender:You should not use the words "I","me" and "mine". Exchange "I" with "We","me" with "Us" and "mine" with "Our". Do not use your name instead. These rules do not apply to quotes(exceptions:you should neither add "I", "me" and "mine" to quotes, nor abuse this provision(e.g. by quoting an "I" only)). If you do not follow your post restriction you gain the following compulsive action, active the following night and day: You need to give me a list of people. The person on the top of this list(ignoring dead people) will be the person you will intent to vote at the start of each day, and you will vote them after 48 hours have passed. Both will be public. And

both will be

frozen

. Frozen votes or intents cannot changed until the end of the day. You may change this list at any time, but changes after intent will not change the vote. If you do not give me a list, I will use the player list, modified with your name on top. Your role has hidden powers. If something happens your post restriction - but not its punishments - lapses. If a certain percentage of your posts during a game day violates your post restriction(unless it lapsed) the punishment becomes permanent(you will be informed at the end of the day if that happened).

Your alignment: Town. No special abilities.
You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least two town-aligned players are alive.

Day 1 begins and ends in (expired on 2022-06-05 09:36:00), or earlier.

The_Evil_Within is a Priest.

Vote Count 1.0

Roden (8) Flea the Magician; takotsubo syndrome; Enchant; MegAzumarill; Radical Rat; Roden; Toogeloo; The_Evil_Within;

Flea the Magician (0)

takotsubo syndrome

Yume

(0)

Enchant (0)

MegAzumarill (0)

Radical Rat (0)

Toogeloo

PookyTheMagicalBear

(0)

The_Evil_Within(0)

Not Voting (0)

Abstain (0)

With 8 alive it is 5 to hammer after the first 48 hours of the day have passed.

I was also targeted by an ability that dumped everyone's votes on me on N0, and no one ever claimed that they did it. By default, that has to mean it was a factional ability, which clears me mechanically.

Or a passive effect...

[Radical Rat]

Y'know, in a way it's kinda like WE'RE the dead thread now

[Radical Rat]

tbh this game feels dead -.-;
I'm wondering if the dead thread need us to have a majority?

If that were the case, there'd be functionally no difference from a normal elimination

[Radical Rat]

Though now that I say that out loud.... What a troll that would be

[Radical Rat]

My punishment is that my vote is frozen on abstain, yes. BUT it doesn't apply in ELo, which is the only reason I even considered breaking my restriction.

In any case, I think Enchant is the correct elimination here. If we had mislimmed yesterday, the game would be over, so that's not really a good time for scum to try bussing, so Roden hard pushing me/Toog as the team I think more or less confirms us Town.

And between Flea/Enchant... I'd go for Enchant

[Radical Rat]

... No, i will not selfvote. Have fun waiting to day end.

Welp.
See everyone in a week I guess

[Radical Rat]

Any thoughts on Rat though, Enchant? You kind of ignored them. Do you agree they are more than likely town?

Obviously.

But considering how i am always wrong, you are not by any means forced to really follow my mind. Who knows, maybe they vote you out anyway.

I literally don't care. Go wild.

Btw.

I AM LAST PERSON ALIVE WITH POST RESTRICTION WHILE NOT BREAKING IT.
BWHAHAHAHA. I WON.

Flea hasn't broken faers yet.

[Radical Rat]

I promise I'll praise you for winning post restrictions if you vote for yourself and freeze it there.

[Radical Rat]

No i will not selfvote. Don't worry it's just 2 days of torture. I am even glad that i will skip Elo.

Well that's a shame, I guess Flea wins the restrictions contest then. I was even working on a trophy for you, but I guess I can get it re-engraved for Flea instead...

[Radical Rat]

Spoiler:

[Radical Rat]

I don't think replacing will be necessary, even if you aren't able to post at all (which would be entirely understandable, take whatever time you need). Since your vote is unchangeable, this is pretty much forced into a 1v1 between you and Flea, since even if Flea decides I'm scum, eliminating me would be impossible.

So I've got quite a decision on my hands...

[Radical Rat]

Well I've done my thinking. As much as Flea has felt consistently Town to me, I just can't reconcile Roden pushing so hard on Toogeloo if they're buddies.

It makes sense only if Roden knew he would die, but he didn't read like he thought he'd lost, so...

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but VOTE: Flea the Magician

[Radical Rat]

Glad you did, otherwise game would have been unwinnable.

Assuming you're not trolling here anyway.

[Radical Rat]

I had fun with it. Having to piece together quotes to try to get messages across was interesting, just... ultimately not viable for proper communication, which I deemed important after so many consecutive mislims...

And honestly, if Roden hadn't pushed back so hard, spewing Toog town in the process, I probably would have sided with Flea in the end, taking Roden's sudden hammer as an aborted bus attempt. So it was pretty close there.

One of the main reasons I townread Flea so early was that fae were quick to realize my restriction and attempt to help mitigate it, which I reasoned scum would have no interest in doing. Excellent pocket attempt, almost got away with it

[Radical Rat]

And... sorry. This game was ... not good.
Yes it was bastard, but it did not turn out as I hoped.
With one exception(Toogeloo intentionally breaking the post restriction).

I'm curious how you were hoping things would turn out?

[Radical Rat]

I assume my restriction was because I tend to have issues with mobile posting and screwing up quote formatting