Mini Normal 2276: Around the World - Game Over!

[Ausuka]

Hi. My role in this game is Ascetic Miller.

No, I don't know why anyone would add Miller to a role which can't be investigated.

I feel like I got a middle finger instead of a Role PM this game

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Datisi

OMGUS

[Ausuka]

VOTE: marcistar

OMGUS #2

[Ausuka]

Marcistar lockscum for yawning at me

Scamper locktown for the avatar

Two 100% reads already go me

[Ausuka]

okay asukas scummy already

now we gotta find scum #2

y tho? i dont agree

theyre trying too hard to appear helpful

Actually I'm just going to be obtusely unhelpful for a little bit because Pooky gave me Ascetic Miller and I'm annoyed

[Ausuka]

I mean I don't blame you for that part, it's a bullshit role

Nevertheless if you wanted to vote me for that you probably should have said that on page 1 instead of making up some BS about me trying to appear helpful

[Ausuka]

I don't hate you I just scumread you

[Ausuka]

i have no idea how games get reviewed on this site, but i also think an "aesthetic miller" is likely to raise a question in the review process. i could be wrong on that though.

You would think so wouldn't you

[Ausuka]

Ausuka's 26 feels like fake frustration. I'm surprised anyone suspects Marci over Ausuka here. Strongly doubt it's genuine from everyone involved.

Obviously it's fake. If I was actually obtusely unhelpful that would be gamethrowing.

Anyway, you seem to hold suspecting Marci as a point against Roden and Datisi. I don't get your thought process here. Seeing basically everyone suspect Marci why do you jump to the conclusion of 'people with an opposite perspective to mine are scum for it' rather than 'my perception is highly unusual for this game'?

[Ausuka]

Anyway

I like scamper, Roden and Bella the most so far because they give me Good Vibes

Logically shoshin's progression should probably be suspicious to me. She feels more like chaotic town on a vibes level though.

[Ausuka]

i dont really get good vibes from the posts. i think part of it is because the og claim (8) feels a bit over explanatory.




side note: if i have a game about a frog gf, and then i get a slurpee thats frog juice flavored, am i drinking my gf?

i don't see how thats scummy..?

why would scum want to naked vote and draw attention to themselves?
why would shoshin

not

want to shade people this early on? it'll cause reactions for sure and help better read people? like how ur having a tantrum over them scumreading you rn
why are

you

framing everything they do in such a bad way? the certain words, "bullshitting", "dodging a question" its making a bigger deal of something than it should be.
why are

you

expecting shoshin to be perfect?

Ok, first off I'd like to ask Marci what she thought was over explainy about my first post?? It was like three lines lmao

I don't really like the second post. I don't think she's wrong about Shoshin playing chaotically not being scummy, but something about the way she treats Crescent rubs me the wrong way, like she's trying to win an argument and isn't really worried about how this impacts Crescent's alignment. In particular, Crescent's posting up til this point felt fairly reasonable and describing it as a 'tantrum' seems unreasonably aggro. 'Why are you expecting Shoshin to be perfect' is also such a strange line; like, obviously Crescent isn't expecting Shoshin to be perfect just because she scumreads her posts??? Again it comes off as an argument winner line rather than someone genuinely interested in sorting the situation.

I could see scum Marci defending town Shoshin like this.

(I want to townread her for the frog posting though I love frogs)

[Ausuka]

Scamper's lines of questioning seemed reasonable and good and they seemed sorty

39 and 62 seem like good examples of posts I like

(Also since I just answered your question you should totally answer mine )

[Ausuka]

So no reason for me NOT to believe Ausuka at this point, but I don't think it's impossible that scum makes that claim.

i dont really think scum claims ascetic miller on page 1, i think if ascetic they just claim ascetic without the miller part, cuz the extra detail is unnecessary to invent. simplest explanation is aus got given an actual weird neg util role and claimed it

ill leave this here for now

VOTE: marci

Hmm we get into WIFOM territory here though. Why would scum say ascetic miller and not just ascetic? Maybe so we can have this conversation. Good lies involve detail and ascetic miller is a way to say "omg guys look at this dumb role I've got, why is this a thing?" Rather than blindly going "I'm ascetic," and everyone has to decide if they believe it or not. Also the conversation is muddied a bit more because we're no longer just going "idk if I believe Ausuka", now we're going "why would this role exist?"
But yeah, I'm just thinking out loud. This early in the game I'm happy to lean more towards accepting that there's an ascetic miller.

To elaborate, very unlikely that scum Marci calls town Ausuka's role fake. Equally unlikely that scumteam Ausuka/Marci planned this bit of drama to start the game off (besides the obvious pro-town effect of their play getting us out of RVS, it just seems too much to pull off this quickly with no real scum logic behind the play).

I feel like at least one scum would maybe want to throw shade at that claim? Idk, if I'm scum I'd want to create doubt over town!ausuka's claim

Do agree that it likely isn't staged S/S though.

So what's your read on me and marcistar?

@bella and gamma, why is this town

[Ausuka]

ausuka, do you scumread alex?

I think they might still be catching up so I'm going to leave it for a bit until I commit to a push but I don't like their posting so far at all.

[Ausuka]

idk if theres 2 or 3 scum,

prob 3 but lets find them on day 3 so that asusuka and roden feel like they have a chance..

Not quite sure why but I dislke this. Why would there only be 2 scum in a 13p game?

This is the first thing I dislike because it feels like artificial uncertainty. Like, Alex knows exactly why they don't like this post, and they make it very clear.

why do u immediately jump to shitposting? LOL what if shoshins serious..

Yes, let's seriously come up with a scumteam based solely on a single point of interaction 80 posts into the game. That sure sounds serious~

I am very weary of shitposters right now for reasons I can't get into.

This sounds very defensive but also think I understand why

This post just seems like content for the sake of content. It's not a terribly scummy post in isolation but it adds to my feeling that they are more trying to look uncertain than actually find the mafia.

So no reason for me NOT to believe Ausuka at this point, but I don't think it's impossible that scum makes that claim.

i dont really think scum claims ascetic miller on page 1, i think if ascetic they just claim ascetic without the miller part, cuz the extra detail is unnecessary to invent. simplest explanation is aus got given an actual weird neg util role and claimed it

ill leave this here for now

VOTE: marci

Hmm we get into WIFOM territory here though. Why would scum say ascetic miller and not just ascetic? Maybe so we can have this conversation. Good lies involve detail and ascetic miller is a way to say "omg guys look at this dumb role I've got, why is this a thing?" Rather than blindly going "I'm ascetic," and everyone has to decide if they believe it or not. Also the conversation is muddied a bit more because we're no longer just going "idk if I believe Ausuka", now we're going "why would this role exist?"
But yeah, I'm just thinking out loud. This early in the game I'm happy to lean more towards accepting that there's an ascetic miller.

This is also fluffy and doesn't really say anything. It's role speculation which is easy for scum to create. It's basically just a lot of words for 'Ausuka's claim could come from either alignment'

Basically I just feel like Alex's posting is fluffy and lacks a scumhunting mindset.

I'm not going to vote yet though because a wagon on Marci already exists and I like it

[Ausuka]

Does this mean that you think that I'm scum with Marci? Or that I'm scum and shading town!Marci? (I think the answer is obvious but I kind of want to hear it all the same)

It doesn't mean either - I just think it's scummy of you to do. I could see scum pushing town like that or pushing their partner like that. I'm not going to do associative reads this early.

I don't expect you to ignore the claim entirely, but your post is very overexplainy considering the conclusion is basically just that the ascetic miller claim could be real or fake.

[Ausuka]

Anyway

I like scamper, Roden and Bella the most so far because they give me Good Vibes

Logically shoshin's progression should probably be suspicious to me. She feels more like chaotic town on a vibes level though.

Can you elaborate on these good vibes? More specifically with Bella, because when you posted this she had very little content outside of a vague-ish Marci scum read

Marci's vibes seem a bit off

Datisi feels kinda town though

I like this

Because I agree? I don't get town from marci at all, especially the 'i haven't voted thing', which is weird in itself.

I have high hopes of being able to read Roden too.

^ I liked these posts because they reflected what I was thinking reading through.

[Ausuka]

Marci gave off "clueless, easily pocketed town" vibes (Shoshin being the one player to definitively call her town) from that post specifically. Admittedly if Shoshin is town, the chances it comes from scum are higher. It was a poor post for how hard it defended and I don't think that post is made if both are scum.

It doesn't give pocketed town vibes to me. I could see how town Marci would instinctively townread Shoshin in this situation, but I think the way she goes about it isn't genuine for reasons I explained - the whole bit where she asks five rhetorical questions in quick succession, says you're having a tantrum and 'expecting Shoshin to be perfect' seems totally disconnected from what's actually going on and overall performative.

[Ausuka]

I thought someone finally agreed with my Alex read, I feel betrayed

Working theory: Roden/Datisi/Crescent scumteam.

Oh he's shitposting for reactions. Less interesting.

I can understand where Crescent is coming from with discrediting Shoshin, I think, considering it started after this post. People tend to be defensive in response to pushes anyway and the scumteam-solving so early did seem shitposty on a read-through.

[Ausuka]

This part of it felt like you were trying to justify why you claimed because of being worried of how you would be viewed.

Why is trying to shut down a potential avenue of attack scum indicative at all. Is town Ausuka supposed to want people coming in saying "lol you fucked up, miller makes no sense with ascetic, we're limming you day 1, enjoy dead chat idiot"

You trying to win the argument is scummy because it represents a lack of sorting Crescent which I feel would be more natural for town Marci there, I think I explained it in my post already

[Ausuka]

i feel like i have had almost double the people ping me as some sorta scummy than some sorta townie, which uh

very rarely happens and it is Not Good

I mean

Do you want to elaborate here

[Ausuka]

I still like scamper which is good because I don't think I could eliminate that avatar

[Ausuka]

See multiple people have said it's a playstyle read now and I don't get it.

I think his playstyle is even sort of towny - he comes off as naturally comfortable and somewhat charismatic to me.

I think the content of his posts is more scum motivated than town motivated for reasons I've tried to explain. I think he is more orientated towards creating whatever content than sorting people.

[Ausuka]

I mean you do come across as defensive, I'm just not convinced defensiveness is scummy

[Ausuka]

See multiple people have said it's a playstyle read now and I don't get it.

I think his playstyle is even sort of towny - he comes off as naturally comfortable and somewhat charismatic to me.

I think the content of his posts is more scum motivated than town motivated for reasons I've tried to explain. I think he is more orientated towards creating whatever content than sorting people.

I don't think this is an inherently scummy thing after just a day and a half. I also play much the same way - I tend to create content first, then start sorting people. You won't even see me place a vote until there's like, 48-72 hours left in any given day.

I wouldn't say your behaviour is really comparable to Alex's? You don't have the most direct playstyle, sure, but you feel more genuine and sorty.

[Ausuka]

why do i need to focus on sorting crescent this very minute?

You don't need to I just think you're being scummy by choosing not to because town tend to want to solve the game

[Ausuka]

I like Aussie as a nickname except it kinda makes me sound like I'm Australian

See multiple people have said it's a playstyle read now and I don't get it.

I think his playstyle is even sort of towny - he comes off as naturally comfortable and somewhat charismatic to me.

I think the content of his posts is more scum motivated than town motivated for reasons I've tried to explain. I think he is more orientated towards creating whatever content than sorting people.

Who is this about?

It's about alex

[Ausuka]

I feel like one of shishon/crescent is scum but not entirely sure which

Why would you think there has to be one scum here?

I feel like your feud with Crescent has neither of you looking good but it doesn’t seem like theater

Honestly I felt the opposite, they both feel like town here

This seems like a pretty convenient position for scum Gamma to take

[Ausuka]

I claimed because I want to see what happens and I'd bet there's scum in the hood

I would object but tbh I think the NRG are plain enough to think consistently placing scum in hoods is a good idea

I think it's a bad idea to speculate about scum in the hood. This setup is clearly WIFOM heavy and I don't see how any accurate conclusions can be drawn, seems better to just ignore it.

[Ausuka]

hood reveal is interesting, i dont have a problem with std outing it since theres probably scum in a 4 person hood but i kind of wish he'd waited a bit longer so that we could have reads from people on the players in the hood + lemons could have posted

cuz right now my immediate thought is the lemons slot is probably scum but we learn basically nothing from it now if thats true

I really do think the setup could have a four player town hood just to fuck with the players

Like I'm not saying that's what's happening but I think it's not good to let the hood shape reads too much in a troll setup

[Ausuka]

I guess Bella's posts aren't terribly hard for scum to fake but like I don't think I'd expect her to be massively different as town and I vibed with some of her early posts

STD feels like a scummier version of Bella tbh

Johnny's catch up is lightly towny because the push on Dats seems counterintuitive for scum to make and I like it, still want to see more from him tho

[Ausuka]

No, the neighbours aren't random in normals, it's designed in setup review. Although I think treating them as random might be a good thing.

[Ausuka]

suspicious of roden because the early townread of shoshin for "solving behind the scenes" seems (1) kinda awkwardly explained, (2) seems like tmi? like, i'm a bit skeptical that he saw two basically naked votes and decided there's some townie solving happening there

I take back that townread dats

I mean push might be a slight exaggeration but this is something along those lines I think. It seems like he's calling your Roden read fake.

[Ausuka]

I hope I'm not being too harsh on Pooky btw! I know different people appreciate different kinds of setups, and calling this a 'troll setup' might be overly harsh although it's clearly very unorthodox. I'm grateful for the work that goes into modding the game.

Bella who's scum?

[Ausuka]

Lmao fair

[Ausuka]

Hmm maybe marcistar is town actually

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Alexcellent

[Ausuka]

Ignoring my urge to yawn in response, some of your recent posts have seemed more natural and scumhunty and I know I'm biased against people who scumread me so have to account for that

[Ausuka]

I'm pretty sure both questions have already been asked and answered?

[Ausuka]

I still like Roden

Shoshin still confuses me but I don't dislike the Gamma read I guess

[Ausuka]

Shoshin the confusion is that you keep like flipping your reads without explaining why

Like I could've sworn Gamma was one of your top townreads yesterday and now he's your top scumread

And also you were like hard pushing Crescent and now she's townier than Marcistar who you've been defending all game

[Ausuka]

I mean that post was one of the posts

I didn't want to drag out the explanation because effort and I thought no one would care but I got slightly weird vibes off corwin so I liked Marci saying that

[Ausuka]

I mean it's not confusing that you're changing your reads, that's normal, but don't you at least understand why I would find it hard to keep up with the combination of frequent read changes and lack of explanations?

My impression earlier was that you were saying Marci's read on me never comes from scum but maybe I misunderstood

[Ausuka]

I do agree with the Gamma read though, I'd like him to explain why he thought both Crescent and Shoshin looked bad in that exchange

[Ausuka]

hood reveal is interesting, i dont have a problem with std outing it since theres probably scum in a 4 person hood but i kind of wish he'd waited a bit longer so that we could have reads from people on the players in the hood + lemons could have posted

cuz right now my immediate thought is the lemons slot is probably scum but we learn basically nothing from it now if thats true

I really do think the setup could have a four player town hood just to fuck with the players

Like I'm not saying that's what's happening but I think it's not good to let the hood shape reads too much in a troll setup

@gamma, it'snot about them being the same/anything to do with each other, more the vibe of the game. I think this from aus' explains what I was meaning - I feel this game is going to be weird.

Bella definitely answered the question already

[Ausuka]

Is it weird? I don't like answering questions for other people, but in this case she already answered the question and three separate people have asked about it. That's what I find weird.

[Ausuka]

I mean I guess Crescent said she read the post, so she probably just didn't parse it as a response and it's NAI.

You in particular I already felt like were asking lots of questions that didn't necessarily lead to anything and asking that without appearing to investigate the answer felt weird in a way that added to that sense.

[Ausuka]

@Alex; That makes no sense? If I think something is weird or scummy I'm not going to avoid talking about it just because someone else could handle it. I understand that it tends to be bad to answer questions for someone else - although I don't think I've ever seen someone call it alignment indicative - but this is at most tangentially related to that and comes off as a massive stretch of a push.

[Ausuka]

I guess Bella's posts aren't terribly hard for scum to fake but like I don't think I'd expect her to be massively different as town and I vibed with some of her early posts

STD feels like a scummier version of Bella tbh

Johnny's catch up is lightly towny because the push on Dats seems counterintuitive for scum to make and I like it, still want to see more from him tho

[Ausuka]

@Alex; That makes no sense? If I think something is weird or scummy I'm not going to avoid talking about it just because someone else could handle it. I understand that it tends to be bad to answer questions for someone else - although I don't think I've ever seen someone call it alignment indicative - but this is at most tangentially related to that and comes off as a massive stretch of a push.

This isn't necessarily related to a push, more-so prevents her reaction. She may come in and continue to try and explain her position or have a different response than what she's already given for whatever reason (it's not common but I've seen scum do it). You repeatedly coming in to redirect people to where she's answered is speaking for her. Like yeah, it's overall pretty minor and probably nothing comes from it anyway but it's just odd to me that you've done it more than once now.

Ok but like
1) it doesn't prevent her reaction at all
2) I think the idea that the same question being asked multiple times is somehow meant to generate particularly useful content is nonsense, and I think pursuing why people are throwing out questions so easily is much more interesting

[Ausuka]

Eh I missed the part where you said this wasn't a push which means the line of thinking I was having is wrong.

That said if it's not a push what is it? You calling it weird and odd isn't meant to imply I'm being scummy?

[Ausuka]

Eh. Part of me feels like this is a theory discussion and I just see the game very differently from you and part of me thinks you didn't give me these vibes in past games of yours I checked and your position doesn't make any sense.

I guess I'll just wait and see if other people see what I'm saying here.

I will say it really doesn't feel like Crescent is concerned Bella is going to get limmed and that line confused me as well.

[Ausuka]

I guess Bella's posts aren't terribly hard for scum to fake but like I don't think I'd expect her to be massively different as town and I vibed with some of her early posts

STD feels like a scummier version of Bella tbh

Johnny's catch up is lightly towny because the push on Dats seems counterintuitive for scum to make and I like it, still want to see more from him tho

What’s scummy about StD

The way he plays around Shoshin feels weird to me and he hasn't been doing anything else other than the hood thing which is easy for scum to do.

[Ausuka]

This game

[Ausuka]

Ok whatever I'll just let the mod deal with the borderline trust tell thing.

Bella posting about her role PM is uh not the play I would have made there but probably +town.

[Ausuka]

Datisi regardless of alignment is probably genuinely pissed. I agree he's capable of a lot more than he's been showing but if town I think he probably needs some space to get back into the game

[Ausuka]

Gamma is probably a wolf

[Ausuka]

ur just soft for datisi..

I mean I'm trying not to let that influence me but pressing him here does seem counterproductive idk

[Ausuka]

"Guy who replaces out day 1 as scum"

I'm known by many as this type of player. Something to consider, Crescent.

if the supposed implication of this is "i'd have replaced out of this game if i was scum", that's actually really disgusting.

Because of this

I can't know what you intended, but it comes off like a trust tell.

Also people tend to be frustrated when people vote for them I guess

[Ausuka]

ur just soft for datisi..

I mean I'm trying not to let that influence me but pressing him here does seem counterproductive idk

idk i feel like datisis had the time to get into the game but just hasnt

I mean, you're not wrong I guess? I don't think it contradicts anything I said though

[Ausuka]

I'm not saying I'd have replaced out of this game as scum, Ausuka. Some people might think that about me, but they're wrong. I don't mean to trust tell here at all.

I don't get why townies would be so upset about this either way? I'm pointing out a reputation, not confirming it as accurate.

Crescent's response, for example. They're sort of imploding, to an extent that I think is much more likely to come from scum than town. Datisi, similar. Gamma as well. I'd be very surprised if there's not at least two scum within this group.

Although I don't know where the line exactly would be between self meta and trust telling, something along the lines of "I wouldn't post as scum" even though it's not as bad as the replacement thing, feels like toeing the line. I personally am willing to just let Pooky take whatever action they feel is appropriate and I don't think it confirms you as town since you haven't built up a recent pattern of this behaviour but I definitely understand why they feel their enjoyment of the game is impacted.

This is probably compounded by the fact that both Crescent and Datisi despise your playstyle anyway.

I think Gamma's reaction to it is by far the scummiest out of the three.

[Ausuka]

@aus, I didn't want to, I assumed people would infer enough and back off and instead people repeatedly didn't read my answer, got pissed with u fy pointing it out and still wouldn't stop a fuss over nothing. Apart from you it's made everyone involved, even crescent, look scummy to me

I mean, I understand where you're coming from here, but I think the only person who was really pressing it was Alex and his argument was something along the lines of "it's not impossible something useful will come from me talking about this." Idk it's probably not a relevant discussion now

[Ausuka]

I can understand Crescent townreading Shoshin for it and I think it's somewhat towny because Shoshin is someone she was pushing and she would probably like to be able to continue to do so.

I can understand dats thinking it's NAI

I can't understand Gamma scumreading it at all. His read on the Shoshin/Crescent situation never felt genuine and it especially does not feel so to me now.

[Ausuka]

hood reveal is interesting, i dont have a problem with std outing it since theres probably scum in a 4 person hood but i kind of wish he'd waited a bit longer so that we could have reads from people on the players in the hood + lemons could have posted

cuz right now my immediate thought is the lemons slot is probably scum but we learn basically nothing from it now if thats true

I really do think the setup could have a four player town hood just to fuck with the players

Like I'm not saying that's what's happening but I think it's not good to let the hood shape reads too much in a troll setup

i dont think having some slightly unusual roles is an indicator of a "troll setup". even if we assume its randomized alignments its more likely than not theres scum in the hood, and i think "oh it's a troll setup so the hood is all town" is a weird logical leap and not good thinking, b/c if it were that obvious the game just solves itself on day 1

I mean it's not a logical leap, did you read my second paragraph? I'm saying making conclusions about the amount of scum in the hood feels silly to me because anything is possible in a setup with Ascetic Millers lmao

[Ausuka]

@shoshin, we don't use the l-word on this site anymore, and i haven't gotten to this game yet. i don't lurk to "avoid posting content" or whatever else because i am more than good enough at scum to know what to post.

This is one if the reasons I town read Datisi. Not because of the self-meta here but because I've seen scum!Datisi a couple times now and this isn't it. If you don't have much of an opinion on him then he's very likely town; he's generally high activity as scum and working hard to make people want to keep him around and empathize with him.

I mean I don't disagree that Datisi is capable of being much townier than this as scum but I also think he's capable of doing more as town? And probably just hasn't gotten into the game regardless of alignment.

- i think alex reading into crescent acting in defense of bella in 412 is towny, that kind of trying to draw out unseen connections comes more often from a townie mindset of trying to fit puzzle pieces together

I mean maybe I'm biased/tunneled at this point but don't you think it kind of sounds like a BS read? There was no indication at all that Crescent was worried about Bella being eliminated by calling out Alex's post as overly hedgy and it kind of just didn't feel like a genuine thought. Idk

[Ausuka]

i wanna soul-townread crescent for pointing out how anti-town shoshin's play is, because this rng roulette of constant naked "reads" is doing wonders for killing my motivation for this game. the fact that crescent noticed it too is probably? +town.

ok i wanna point out this looks like its openly pocketing crescent and trying to take advantage of her to push on shoshin, it just feels completely icky

and i think his reaction to shoshin's comment was kind of a low-key scumclaim

so with that i wanna

VOTE: Datisi

I do actually agree that this dats post was somewhat wolfy and I'd like him to explain it when he comes back

Like, I don't disagree that Crescent is town but I don't see the thought process behind this read. Why would mafia ever hesitate to call out Shoshin's play here as anti town? Especially after the trust tell thing, assuming Shoshin is town here scum would be pretty damn annoyed that she tried to clear herself in such a way?

[Ausuka]

Ok whatever I'll just let the mod deal with the borderline trust tell thing.

Bella posting about her role PM is uh not the play I would have made there but probably +town.

i honestly dont read anything into it

Gamma is probably a wolf

explain, bcuz i dont agree...

Scum are less likely to want to soft on day 1 because it restricts their options later - for example if this is a high power setup scum probably want to be claiming VT - and she comes across as genuine to me.

Gamma is probably a wolf because I've never understood why people were townreading him and tbh I think his push on Shoshin was terrible. I really didn't like the post saying Crescent and Shoshin both looked bad, since I got the opposite vibes and since iirc both were under suspicion at the time it would be an extremely convenient position for scum to take, encouraging a TvT fuelled by a massive playstyle difference while being able to pivot into pushing either if one of them townspewed.

Also his posts just kind of feel wolfy imo but I know that's not super convincing.

[Ausuka]

STD made a brilliant take in 279 which I don't think that he'll ever post as scum.

Can you explain this? I think the neighborhood thing would not be particularly difficult for scum to do and am confused as to why you found it towny.

[Ausuka]

I've never heard the phrase radiant lodestar but I might start using it because it is excellent

like Aussie as a nickname

Oh BTW I tend to nickname a lot and I'm also attempting to use less gendered language in general, so if at any point I call you something you don't like, absolutely let me know and I will stop without comment

Personally I'm fine with gendered language and stuff like that and also tend to be fine with nicknames as long as they aren't insulting

[Ausuka]

STD made a brilliant take in 279 which I don't think that he'll ever post as scum.

Can you explain this? I think the neighborhood thing would not be particularly difficult for scum to do and am confused as to why you found it towny.

He had no reason to want to make us think that scum was in the hood. He could easily convince us that we should use the hood as a psuedo-Masonry and hunt for scum outside. But instead, he takes the risky move of saying that scum could be in our hood.
Though, my POV is affected by the fact that I am in the hood.

I think anyone suggesting that a four player hood be seen as a masonry would be scumread for it so I don't think that's an approach scum are especially likely to take?

[Ausuka]

I don't think this is especially likely to be scum Freedom doing a fake read I just continue to be baffled by townreads on STD I guess

[Ausuka]

Now I want a glimpse into the universe where four people claimed Mason on d1

[Ausuka]

Aldo caught up. What's good?

If you're looking to chat, what do you think of STD and Gamma

I'm not sure they would couple up on the Freedom/shoshin wagon as scumbuddies unless Alex and Datisi are both town I guess? I don't like either of them though

[Ausuka]

Draggo I liked for the hood reveal until just recently, and they haven't posted much besides? Or if they did I don't remember?

Gamma I've been nursing a baby scumread on because of an early thing they did with Crescent, but I also just played a game with them where they were feeling down so I wanted to give them space to blossom

I mean I disagree with the STD read but probably pointless to repeat myself there

Gamma I guess that's a fair approach to take? It's kind of similar to what I was trying to do with Datisi, doesn't really help me read Gamma though

I think Johnny feels town

[Ausuka]

I kind of had some thoughts on Datisi but I guess I'll let scamper and corwin talk before I say them

W/crescent I do understand part of that read. I just am not feeling the whole mindmeld idea when it comes to the quality of someone's play. I guess it isn't a major point on its own, but like, sharing a distaste for Shoshin's play doesn't seem like it makes sense to be alignment indicative at all

Tbh the actual reason I wanted to post was so I can say radiant lobster would be an excellent hydra name

[Ausuka]

roden might be townie for 539. i don't think it makes sense for him to be trying to pocket me, it's not a read that will get townread by others, and it instinctively makes sense based on what he's seen from my games. (though i would warn against reads like that because i can be useless as scum too, but y'know. he's town for it.)

I mean given that you were scumreading Roden earlier is there a reason you think scum wouldn't defend you? Like, while I tr Roden for other reasons I would expect typically ~1 scum to defend each wagon on town in a game of this size? And am surprised you don't expect the same

Has the meta shifted since I've been away or am I missing something here

[Ausuka]

Oh I forgot to mention this but you also like publicly stated earlier that you got pocketed easily. I'm not sure why you said that in the first place given that you didn't think anyone here was aware of it, but given that you did in fact say that I am very surprised you don't suspect anyone might be trying to pocket you here.

[Ausuka]

This is another one of those situations where I'm like "I don't know if this is a deep difference in how we view the game or a faked scum mindset"

Like I guess I just think it's natural for town who know they can get pocketed to be afraid of being pocketed and I don't think it's true that people who are seen as scummy never get pocketed and that Dats probably knows that

I guess I'd like other people to weigh in here

[Ausuka]

I don't think I was being mindless???

[Ausuka]

I mean you were explicitly talking to me in that post we're talking about

Maybe it would be good for you to just like make a post where you clarify exactly what you where thinking there because this conversation has left me deeply confused

[Ausuka]

That is really obviously not what I'm saying.

[Ausuka]

yeah

so then why would me responding to u about datisi be only trying to convince u to not be mindless? other ppl r gonna read that shit too

I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to say here?? Who brought up 'only' anything, I don't care if you were hoping other people would get something out of your post. You were replying to me, you were at least talking to me in part, it seemed obvious at the time you were trying to convince me Dats is a wolf. Which didn't feel wrong at the time but you continuing to not address the topic after being pressed on it baffles me.

[Ausuka]

TBH I DONT WVEN KNOW WHAT ARGUMENT IM MAKING HERE IM ARGUING JUST TO ARGUE

all i know is i think datisisisisis scum

??????????????????¿???????¿???

[Ausuka]

it's almost as if marci's posts are not made in good faith and she's posting nonsense just for the sake of it.

u really should learn to stop tunneling < 3

VOTE: marcistar

[Ausuka]

I hate STD's posts btw

[Ausuka]

johnny - posted pretty much nothing content kind of sucks

corwinoid - in the hood hasn't done much yet

datisi - i think the push on marci could be scum trying to mislim a town

freedom - in the hood, for the sins of shoshin

this is the closest thing he has to hunting and like maybe I can write an actual post on it tomorrow but it's 3am right now, this just feels wolfy af

I mean STD has a fairly similar playstyle as town but I feel like in our last game together he was significantly better than this?

Does no one else see it

[Ausuka]

Also since people didn't respond to my datisi posts iirc I'm deciding that I don't scumread him because I have too many scumreads if I do

[Ausuka]

johnny - posted pretty much nothing content kind of sucks

corwinoid - in the hood hasn't done much yet

datisi - i think the push on marci could be scum trying to mislim a town

freedom - in the hood, for the sins of shoshin

this is the closest thing he has to hunting and like maybe I can write an actual post on it tomorrow but it's 3am right now, this just feels wolfy af

I mean STD has a fairly similar playstyle as town but I feel like in our last game together he was significantly better than this?

Does no one else see it

From a quick skimthrough of Micro 1056 (which I believe is the latest game that he was Town in), I think that he is acting relatively similarly. Though, he wrote more in the quoted post than in his posts in Micro 1056.
Maybe his towngame changed.
IDK
His other posts in this game are fine.

It's not about the playstyle, I think his pushes suck. Like literally all four of them

[Ausuka]

i dont think having some slightly unusual roles is an indicator of a "troll setup". even if we assume its randomized alignments its more likely than not theres scum in the hood, and i think "oh it's a troll setup so the hood is all town" is a weird logical leap and not good thinking, b/c if it were that obvious the game just solves itself on day 1

I mean it's not a logical leap, did you read my second paragraph? I'm saying making conclusions about the amount of scum in the hood feels silly to me because anything is possible in a setup with Ascetic Millers lmao

sorry, my bad on misunderstanding what you meant there. i still dont like the idea of just going "setup is a troll so all basic assumptions about balance go out the window"

Basic assumptions about balance like you shouldn't put 2 vigs in a 12 player game, or you shouldn't make ICs bulletproof, or you shouldn't put three mafia doctors in a gunsmith game? Normal mods can and do mess with players in this way. Maybe it's pointless to talk in circles about it though.

@shoshin, we don't use the l-word on this site anymore, and i haven't gotten to this game yet. i don't lurk to "avoid posting content" or whatever else because i am more than good enough at scum to know what to post.

This is one if the reasons I town read Datisi. Not because of the self-meta here but because I've seen scum!Datisi a couple times now and this isn't it. If you don't have much of an opinion on him then he's very likely town; he's generally high activity as scum and working hard to make people want to keep him around and empathize with him.

I mean I don't disagree that Datisi is capable of being much townier than this as scum but I also think he's capable of doing more as town? And probably just hasn't gotten into the game regardless of alignment.

- i think alex reading into crescent acting in defense of bella in 412 is towny, that kind of trying to draw out unseen connections comes more often from a townie mindset of trying to fit puzzle pieces together

I mean maybe I'm biased/tunneled at this point but don't you think it kind of sounds like a BS read? There was no indication at all that Crescent was worried about Bella being eliminated by calling out Alex's post as overly hedgy and it kind of just didn't feel like a genuine thought. Idk

eh not really, i see plenty of times where townies pull out these crazy sounding reads because they get too deep in their own worldbuilding and start imagining things that arent there. i think "i am scumreading this person and now someone else is attacking me for my read of them, i wonder if they are teamed" is a thought that easily crosses most peoples minds even if its rarely accurate. it struck me as kind of an outlandish thought but not really an implausible one at all, if that makes sense.

I mean that's definitely a possibility; I just think Alex comes off as an experienced player and I don't think the connection he's drawing has any logic beyond "crescent attacks Alex who is currently attacking Bella" so I think it's more likely to come from mafia on balance.

[Ausuka]

Because my suspicion of Datisi has been lighter than my suspicion of Marci and then Marci started openwolfing

I mean the post I quoted alone has to be the scummiest thing in this game so far? Marci gets pushed, seems to completely crumble under pressure, insists she's sure Dats is scum, and then turns around and says 'oh Dats you're so silly tunneling me here! btw I'm going to go lurk now for Better Reads or whatever'

[Ausuka]

I mean I understand why you're concerned, I am too to some extent but like

Idk I don't want to keep this slot alive

Sometimes the person howling

is

just a wolf you know?

I tried backing off from Marci because I didn't want to tunnel, I thought I might be biased since her whole deal had been pushing me from the start and some of her posts lightly pinged me as towny. But she was scummy at the start and she's really scummy now.

[Ausuka]

viewtopic.php?p=13378298&user_select%5B ... #p13378298

I think this is an interesting read

My first thought here is just like, she seems to struggle with scumplay a bit? So I'm more inclined to think she's scum here rather than too-scummy-to-be-scum.

Also she said she tends to be more bitchy as scum? I'm not 100% sure whether or not that applies here and I think it's hard to evaluate without being Potentially Rude

[Ausuka]

I talk shit it's what I do

[Ausuka]

Well you're hardly going to convince us to lim Not Voting

[Ausuka]

maybe she just felt pressured and fucked up?

[Ausuka]

What I'm trying to say is I don't think the scummy stuff necessarily needs to be looked at through the lens of a scum strategy.

[Ausuka]

thank you wolfistar

[Ausuka]

Firstly, I'd disagree that she didn't do anything to justify her second wagon - the way she handled that interaction with datisi was god awful

Secondly, the 'momentum' between Marci and Alex seems to be just me and Datisi. I think I've explained the reasoning in my votes at the very least. I don't think the wagons were large enough for this analysis to be particularly meaningful.

[Ausuka]

??

the post shows im at least thinking
its not my fault u didnt care to ask for details

It feels like you're just changing your behaviour after being called out and then saying the initial, accurate accusation isn't valid because of it.

[Ausuka]

@Roden; I might have misinterpreted your statement about momentum then. I'm still not super clear about what you're getting at here? I would say Marci's recent play is significantly scummier than the stuff she did earlier in the game personally and I'm not sure where the assertion her play hasn't changed at all is coming from - I think that's rarely true for anyone.

[Ausuka]

I mean I guess I see where you're coming from? Personally I think Marci's recent posts have been much scummier and I've tried to outline why

[Ausuka]

I mean I'm obviously sympathetic to the idea of scum Alex? But like yeah, there are worlds where this is bussing, or worlds where Alex is just town who voted Marci because she's being scummy

I'm not ruling out the idea that there's something that would explain this from town Marci but I'm not sure what it would be? I checked some past games and I don't think she's Like This as town

I didn't think Alex's vote was terrible but I'm probably biased because it was sheeping me! I guess hopefully he'll clarify about it when he returns from v/la

Pedit: so true

[Ausuka]

maybe she just felt pressured and fucked up?

lmao no
Think she’d be voted off already if she did THAT

Why?

[Ausuka]

Who are Johnny's partners?

Yeah I generally don't play the "Let's form an entire scumteam on day 1" game. There is no one I would currently link directly to Johnny. There isn't really any information to get from there yet, which is why pushing there is good to increase generation.

Like, Alex being scum kinda clears Ausuka and Bella, but doesn't directly reflect on anyone else being scum. Ausuka called Alex scummy early on and their current banter doesn't feel like scum/scum at all. The vote on Bella feels like an opportunistic poorly justified scum vote on a low-activity town player, from a player who was recently called out by someone for feeling like he was pushing content but not actually trying to solve. I don't remember who did this, but this player would probably also be town on an Alex scumflip.

You flip scum it does nothing for me because I completely disregard everything you've ever said as fakespew and move on.

I’m starting to see some of the reasoning against Alex but I still think he’d be different tonally as scum
Like, him joking about a crescent-marci scum pairing: that could get misconstrued, so scum would likely avoid throwing something like that out as a mere joke. I think scum joking about it would be like “haha ha what if it was this? JK…unless…?”

Are you referring to this? I don't know how to engage a tonal read. I just flatly disagree scum would necessarily avoid making jokes like that

Pedit: I mean she's the only major wagon, the only reason Roden and Crescent aren't moving for her is because she might be too scummy to be scum, I think that counts as blatant bungling?

[Ausuka]

Marci gets pushed, seems to completely crumble under pressure, insists she's sure Dats is scum, and then turns around and says 'oh Dats you're so silly tunneling me here! btw I'm going to go lurk now for Better Reads or whatever'

This. The crumbling under pressure part was her argument with Datisi where she tried to argue she wasn't scumreading him for being absent and ended up abandoning her position and being like "I don't even know what I'm saying I just scumread datisi"

[Ausuka]

maybe she just felt pressured and fucked up?

lmao no
Think she’d be voted off already if she did THAT

Why?

Feel like she’d bungle pretty blatantly idk
She apparently did that before but being frank I still have zero clue how
Maybe [HYPERLINK BLOCKED] is right about me and I don’t know how to play mafia

this post is towny maybe idk

[Ausuka]

i think it's spamton from Deltarune

[Ausuka]

I mean Alex can be bussing. I remember a game from years ago that had me and Gamma in it where scum were all under suspicion d1 and they just decided to bus each other and town was lost until the game got mechanically solved because they just assumed a suspected scum wouldn't want to bus.

[Ausuka]

I think it's weird that the main opposition to the Marci wagon is coming from people who also think Marci is scum but prefer to flip Alex tbh

It probably indicates that if Marci is scum partners are Alex or people who aren't really around to be pushing anything (or there's a hardbusser I guess)

[Ausuka]

It does feel a bit too easy but I guess easy answers can be right sometimes

[Ausuka]

Yeah no you definitely just doubleposted that quote wall

[Ausuka]

I think it's weird that the main opposition to the Marci wagon is coming from people who also think Marci is scum but prefer to flip Alex tbh

It probably indicates that if Marci is scum partners are Alex or people who aren't really around to be pushing anything (or there's a hardbusser I guess)

I generally won't place a vote this early in a day for any reason unless I already feel like a game is solved or at least mostly solved. My overall voting habits came under a fair amount of fire in 2272.

That said... Kinda still want to see more out of STD here. The one side comment is not enough.

Yeah I mean your style does throw off wagon analysis but I think the point stands, I was talking about Roden and Johnny rather than you, I didn't really get the sense you were advocating for either Marci or Alex Lim specifically at this stage

Yeah no you definitely just doubleposted that quote wall

I'm gonna say it was deliberate trolling.

I think it was probably accidental but hilarious either way (if slightly annoying)

Pedit: no post suspecting me is good in my eyes

[Ausuka]

i still am at the same place with my reads

can you elaborate on your thoughts on Marci and alex

[Ausuka]

i should also add that i dont really care about her quoting her posts to go "see! not all my posts are useless!" because it feels very pedantic like shes trying to prove a very nitpicky point, when she is choosing to respond to that and not me asking her to explain *why* she thinks what she thinks

in my experience thats a common thing where scum will say stuff but not really have a deeper reasoning behind it because theyre just making things up, its a lot easier for town to elaborate on their thinking in a way that is natural and free-flow-y, other people when ive questioned them hav responded a lot more easily and marci just feels like shes taking a pop quiz she didnt study for

i honestly dont remember asking for this opinion??

Wow slay queen but also ur a wolf

[Ausuka]

i still am at the same place with my reads

can you elaborate on your thoughts on Marci and alex

marci null for town vibes but acting scummy "i'm town don't lim me "

alex town for vibes

I feel like I should acknowledge that you answered the question but also I ended up getting nothing out of this so, sorry for asking I guess.

Pedit: I mean to be fair I feel like she just said something impulsive then regretted it

Still wolfy tho because she admitted she's more like that as scum

[Ausuka]

Still wolfy tho because she admitted she's more like that as scum

when did i say
i feel like im more rude as town, tho lately i have been trying to copy that vibez as scum

Subject: Mafia Invictus Redux - Lamborghini Mafia Hideout PT

I FEEL LIKE WHEN IM SCUM MY BITCHINESS FACTOR IS UPPED BY 1000000%

[Ausuka]

It's ok you can call me a tryhard I deserve it

[Ausuka]

Still wolfy tho because she admitted she's more like that as scum

when did i say
i feel like im more rude as town, tho lately i have been trying to copy that vibez as scum

Subject: Mafia Invictus Redux - Lamborghini Mafia Hideout PT

I FEEL LIKE WHEN IM SCUM MY BITCHINESS FACTOR IS UPPED BY 1000000%

i still get bitchy as town

lately its been when ppls been trying to force me to do things

I mean, I think everyone can get bitchy as town, but you pretty clearly seem to think you do it more frequently and intensely as scum?

Also if you sleep instead of playing mafia you're not playing towards your win condition

[Ausuka]

I think so? it was NSG's game

[Ausuka]

Yes he was one of the mafia

[Ausuka]

I feel like it's NAI? It seems like she was worried she was stopping Corwin and Johnny from enjoying the game which I think is more indicative of the whole 'everyone is just playing this game to have fun at the end of the day' than win condition

[Ausuka]

I mean hypothetically scum could do that! I don't think it's common at all or that marcistar is the sort of person who would though?

[Ausuka]

Corwin if you're caught up now do you think Marci is mafia?

[Ausuka]

I feel like it's NAI? It seems like she was worried she was stopping Corwin and Johnny from enjoying the game which I think is more indicative of the whole 'everyone is just playing this game to have fun at the end of the day' than win condition

Seems antithetical to “Marci is rude as scum”
Sure she could try to not make the game feel oppressive as scum but I think the execution of stating she didn’t want to make the game hard to read would be different
It doesn’t feel like a PR stunt.

Not really? I think it's perfectly possible for someone to be willing to be rude and also not want to spam people out of the game completely. I don't get the vibe Marci, like, really means it when she says rude stuff like that

[Ausuka]

I mean Corwin's posts were obviously terrible

I was hoping he would post some more while I was asleep but no

Don't want to vote there because lolhammers but yeah

[Ausuka]

Corwin can you explain why you feel angry at scamper for what would be bad town play while also saying you're convinced they're mafia

[Ausuka]

Also I think gamma is probably town now

[Ausuka]

idk if the scumteaam everyones thinking of would be right idk it stinkz
s

What team is this

i dont know

but the vibes tell me everyones just being lazy

the vibes tell me this post is lazy because you're a wolf

I somewhat understand the hesitation of people jumping on Corwin but I can't fault them and like, I think scum would bus here anyway so not sure if it's meaningful regarding Corwin's alignment

[Ausuka]

Ausuka do you think Corwin is scummy or still set on Marci?

I think the Marci wagon is the best chance we have to eliminate scum today.

I also think Corwin has been scummy and understand the pressure there and want more from him.

[Ausuka]

My tier 1 townreads are scamper and freedom
My tier 2 townreads are bellaphant, crescent, Gamma and Roden
My tier 3 townreads are datisi and Johnny
My "Poe" reads are Corwin, Alex and STD
My top scumread is Marci

I think I got everyone

[Ausuka]

Scamper comes across as obvious town to me - they make good and reasonable posts with genuine feeling reasoning behind it. I never feel like I can't see their town perspective or thought process behind their posts. If they were scum I think they would have to be an alt of an extremely skilled scum player.

I thought Gamma was a wolf earlier but a lot of his recent posts feel townier, like he genuinely cares about the lines of enquiry he's pushing I guess. This is probably his towngame on balance.

STD has been meh all game, I think I talked about it earlier but I didn't like that post with the four meh pushes. The datisi read especially came off as underwhelming.

[Ausuka]

I don't think my issues with Marci are playstyle I think she's just really scummy here

[Ausuka]

Marci gets pushed, seems to completely crumble under pressure, insists she's sure Dats is scum, and then turns around and says 'oh Dats you're so silly tunneling me here! btw I'm going to go lurk now for Better Reads or whatever'

This. The crumbling under pressure part was her argument with Datisi where she tried to argue she wasn't scumreading him for being absent and ended up abandoning her position and being like "I don't even know what I'm saying I just scumread datisi"

It's not a question but I think this outlines pretty well the stuff Marci's done that I think is most scummy without being too long? The response to Datisi and progression and Datisi from her are both horrible and I don't feel like she's genuinely hunting / gamesolving at all.

[Ausuka]

If it's literally Alex/Marci/Corwin why would Alex not Bus? What does he have to lose?

[Ausuka]

If we're saying scum don't earnestly push each other in games the meta must have changed significantly since I left but I recall several games where the mafia pushed mafia more than town did, especially on day 1

[Ausuka]

Because even if they lim town on day 1 they get PoEd and lose. If he hard pushes Marci he tries to create distance between them to escape the POE.

See also all the examples of scum pushing scum on d1 when they don't have to

[Ausuka]

I read that open you were in where Enchant voted Kitty at the end of d1 in a plurality Lim game, when he really did not have to, in a setup where scum was heavily punished for bussing

I will never understand the idea people have that scum wouldn't bus unless they 'have to' when time and time again scum consistently bus and vote each other all the time

Pedit:

[Ausuka]

echant is a loose cannon, maybe gain some fucking context!

Oh yeah because it's only enchant that ever busses on day 1

Hey remember that game I mentioned earlier where I correctly said scum was bussing on d1 and people thought that was so unrealistic the thought couldn't come from town? In a very similar situation to the one we were discussing, in which scum are all under suspicion d1? Was that because of loose cannons too?

I also reread multiple of my past games recently and I noticed that scum place bussing votes a lot more often than people would expect just as a general trend.

I don't even think you're scum pushing this but I think it's really silly that you don't even think this viewpoint could come from town

[Ausuka]

No, you are. I never said Marci and Alex are scumbuddies based on associatives. You're the one saying Marci is clear on an Alex red flip. Which I think is nonsense frankly and I prefer to try and read players on how scummy their posts are rather than associatives which were built upon assumptions I fundamentally disagree with.

[Ausuka]

I think I've cased Marci enough? But essentially it's that I think she's shown little actual scumhunting, and what she has shown has been incredibly shallow. She crumbles upon being pressed by Datisi about her push on him which has like pretty much no substance to it. She then makes fun of Datisi for tunneling in 752 which in itself is the same thing as the best reason for scum Corwin imo - it comes across as if she knows datisi is town. Only after this does she then say Datisi might be town. Then, she tries to use the post saying Datisi might be town to prove that she's 're evaluating' even though she made the post after Datisi called out how shallow the read was - I think this is an example of scum changing their behaviour after getting caught to evade scumreads. It's very convenient for town Marci to suddenly come to the conclusion about the game she needed to push back against the scumreads on her. Especially since I'm pretty sure she never elaborated a thought process on her Datisi read.

Additionally, I think a lot of her posts come across as openwolfing - especially the part where she's like "you all are lazy because you scumread me" without like, actually putting in the work to advance the town wincon and push the scum who are presumably taking advantage of this laziness and/or encouraging it. Most of the stuff I said about her early game I still believe as well.

Sure, scummy people don't have to be scum. The same reasoning could be used for Corwin or anyone else. I think that Marci is the most likely player to be mafia of anyone in this list.

[Ausuka]

Gamma/Ausuka feel like town arguing game theory.

I mean, I agree. I just think this game theory discussion is necessary to make sure we don't Lim one or two scum and then throw the lead because scum were voting each other.

[Ausuka]

I think the point Ausuka is making is if those 3 are scum together. they've all come under so much fire they have no reason not to add to it... Though the way Marci practically stopped posting just for Corwin to catch up doesn't feel like something scum says to another scum in topic and that has nothing to do with bussing.

I mean, I understand that kind of read a lot more and get where it's coming from. Personally I disagree though? Like it's slightly unaligned maybe but I don't think it's difficult enough for scum to fake that it would affect who I feel is the best elimination

[Ausuka]

You didn't have to do anything right now. You've been spouting a similar sentiment for a while I'm pretty sure so you've had plenty of time.

[Ausuka]

@Crescent I agree that's not a strong answer but like, I don't think it's possible to gain a perfect understanding of everything scum does, especially on d1. I can see plenty of possibilities where she does it (I mean even disregarding the bus thing, Corwin can just be town, for example) and therefore it's not enough to dissuade me today if that makes sense.

[Ausuka]

I mean I've read her Eurybia's curse ISO and although maybe I'm missing something since I didn't read the game holistically, she definitely looked a lot better there in terms of making reads and sorting people imo.

I'm not saying she's scummy for the presence of posts that aren't sorty, I know whether a player jokes around is generally down to playstyle. I'm scumreading the absence of posts that are.

Shallow looking re evaluation is something town can do, but I think it's more likely to come from scum because of the timing. She's under pressure for the shallow consistency of the read at the time, so this comes across as a reaction to that pressure, and she pretty much immediately uses it to try and 'disprove' an accusation Datisi made against her earlier.

[Ausuka]

I mean, you're entitled to think that. I can't make you scumread Marci. But similarly I'm not going to stop scumreading her or voting her just because you say it's unconvincing.

[Ausuka]

other than Alex and Datisi, who do you think you can get to vote marci?

I mean, who knows? Reads change all the time. Maybe Roden, Johnny, Bella, scamper?

More to the point, I don't actually particularly mind if Corwin is the Lim today rn and I'm not making an effort to fight that wagon, I've said that I understand the reasons behind it. I'm simply pushing Marci because she's my strongest scumread and I want to make sure she's at the very least one of the first people we look at d2.

[Ausuka]

i was pushing corwin before it was cool

Oh and if you wanna bring up 2273 - I town read you virtually the entire game, and I was right.

I'm not town reading you here.

That’s okay, everyone’s wrong sometimes

alex locktown tbh

[Ausuka]

I mean Corwin's posts were obviously terrible

I was hoping he would post some more while I was asleep but no

Don't want to vote there because lolhammers but yeah

You think someone in this player list would lolhammer?
I don't think we have any blatant players like that except maybe Marci but think that's a death sentence for her if Corwin is town

No but a hammer could be like accidental? I've seen it happen

[Ausuka]

intent to hammer

This is clearly happening so we might as well speed things up in case we want to decide on another wagon with comfortable time

[Ausuka]

can i also intent to hammer? :>

No you're not allowed

[Ausuka]

omg a quickhammer how could you do this

VOTE: datisi

not going to tolerate playing with this VI tbh

[Ausuka]

i'm in this game right?

okay good

would it be foolish to TR this?

Isn't that just like STD's thing

[Ausuka]

The urge to lolhammer exists but I must resist it

[Ausuka]

If anyone wants to interact with me or whatever I will answer any questions because I'm bored

[Ausuka]

scum have given up tbh

But yeah I agree I don't actually want to lolhammer, I was trying to be funny to limited success

[Ausuka]

That's fair and I'm sorry if I confused you

As a rule of thumb if I say something blatantly stupid I'm probably joking if that helps at all

[Ausuka]

Yeah I understand

I am in fact bored with the gamestate but I also have a win condition which I have to play to, and that says it's suboptimal to hammer people without claims, so I'm not going to lolhammer

[Ausuka]

Tbh I care less about that because like I have a feeling Marci and Johnny are still going to be with us on day 2.

[Ausuka]

I mean sure but I don't think it makes much of a difference except it's easier to pressure them tomorrow? Whatever

[Ausuka]

didn't prism say in that micro people were talking about that Marci burns out her WIM as wolf?

[Ausuka]

want it more. Motivation, basically

[Ausuka]

If he says he's been having unexpected family issues I'm inclined to believe him

Doesn't necessarily mean he's town but you know

[Ausuka]

Fair, maybe I misunderstood your post

[Ausuka]

Hmm

Jk is in that awkward position where it's a strong power role but not confirmable and not something we can expect to give concrete results

Roden as my buddy on the Intent to Hammer Council what so you think

[Ausuka]

I'd still be down to just Lim Marcistar but I understand that's not a popular position nowadays

[Ausuka]

Would Pooky really put a jailkeeper in the game

I think he'd put a Combined N1 N2 N4 N5 Jailkeeper Voyeur or something instead

[Ausuka]

I'm only half joking

[Ausuka]

You receive no result if your action fails

RB/jk can cause that, so can other roles like rolestopper and ascetic (hi)

Generally if you claim to jailkeep some rando they probably won't have an investigative role (or you can claim to jailkeep a scumbuddy) so I don't think it's an awful claim for scum, I've claimed town Roleblocker before which is similar

[Ausuka]

(as mafia goon to be clear)

(The guy I claimed to roleblock was 1 shot cop and claimed encryptor enabler and then we limmed him so maybe it's not a good example idk I should talk less)

[Ausuka]

You receive no result if your action fails

To be clear this only happens if you're a role that usually gets results. Cops and trackers would get this result, something like a doctor would be none the wiser unless they protect someone who dies

[Ausuka]

I don't think I've ever actually played a game with a redirector in it unless you count bodyguard

[Ausuka]

i think i am willing to power through the claim on the basis of what ausuka said about pooky probably being more likely to put in a wacky role than simply jailkeeper

Yeah I'm just going to do it, don't think this role exists in the game.

VOTE: Corwin

[Ausuka]

Yeah actually I did play a game with a bus driver once as a hydra? Long time ago though

[Ausuka]

I even fooled the mod

God tier reaction test

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Marcistar

If we're doing vanity wagons again I'm stopping here


My heart will never give up

Not sure I buy the Bella read but I'll wait for her response in case I'm wrong and would give her an out

[Ausuka]

Sorry!

[Ausuka]

It's been like 10 minutes give it like a day and he'll probably be dead tbh

[Ausuka]

I think gamma is wrong about that Bella post and Bella just made a typing error idk it happens

That being said I think Gamma reading into it felt towny, it kind of felt like it was a gotcha moment on his end if that makes sense?

[Ausuka]

I think his recent posts are a bit towny but not townreading him right now? Guess he's around neutral

[Ausuka]

Oh I didn't interpret your post that way I'm just saying I think it's towny of Gamma to do

[Ausuka]

It is absolutely a serious claim

Idk if Corwin's already dead but I realised his role would be jk neighbour which is slightly less plain I guess

[Ausuka]

i think its mostly hard cuz ppl have this like golden trio of suspects
im in the golden trio
so i know the golden trio isnt it
but i dont know where exactly everyones clowning

if yall want to lim me go ahead, since corwind claimed jailkeep i would be the better lim anyways.
but that doesnt change what im saying
yall are wrong somewhere.

I mean like
Would you expect all the scummiest players to be the scum on day 1
I feel like there are players outside of the Golden Trio who aren't really townread it's just that most people find you three suspicious to some degree

[Ausuka]

I think people townread things like "lim me if you want" too easily I think scum did it twice in the game I just finished

The "scum is outside the golden trio" thing is like slightly +town but not enough to make me not want to kill Marci

For people who don't want to kill either corwin or marci I feel like you should propose an alternative/make a case there?

[Ausuka]

I think I'm ready to end the day too, seems pretty clear momentum isn't going to change

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Corwinoid

[Ausuka]

I love hammering

[Ausuka]

is that truly a hammer or do i have to do things still

I think it's real

[Ausuka]

Sorry Alex I'm a hammer addict

[Ausuka]

Hi corwin! Are you town now?

Are we on the same team this time? I think so since BBT isn't here.

So uh

[Ausuka]

I mean yeah it's impossible to know if that's Actually A Traitor Crumb, idk

My opinion may be coloured by the fact I have seen a mafia traitor give away their entire team in a crumb before

[Ausuka]

Fwiw I am in bad health so like, I will be here but my brain is foggy and might not always be able to post, or my posts may not be as thought through as usual, sorry

[Ausuka]

Hi corwin! Are you town now?

Are we on the same team this time? I think so since BBT isn't here.

So uh

i have seen iconeum crumb in a similar fashion before, but corwin strikes me as a much more careful player than someone who would do That. so thinking bella is town, still.

I mean. Maybe??? It seems so weird to me for a traitor to do a fake crumb like that? Has anyone seen it before? I was townreading Bella so if that's a thing I'm willing to disregard it?

[Ausuka]

Fuck it

VOTE: Marcistar

[Ausuka]

Also traitors always have to know their team in normals

[Ausuka]

It's ok marci traitor is a bad role anyway

[Ausuka]

Yeah I only remember playing two and only one on this account, in one scum didn't crumb or fake crumb, in one scum crumbed to the whole team

I would probably simply not crumb if I were traitor but what do I know

[Ausuka]

I mean it's convenient and easy but does that make it wrong

[Ausuka]

L

[Ausuka]

okay open my iso

read the first bunches of posting

yknow where i sused asuska and then eventually sused datisi? that IS actual game content whether yall agreed or not

why would i actually try again when suddenly everything i do is useless?
okay keep making me feel like an idiot and see how many reads thatll make me produce.

I feel really bad if this is town and not ate :/

But like, what am I supposed to do?? Like Marci, I scumread your early game, and scumread your later posts as well. I tried backing off for a bit to avoid tunneling and I still found your posts scummy. If I think you're mafia am I supposed to just do nothing about it???

Pedit: I mean I like actually explicitly asked for other people's input on my read yesterday twice and iirc got zero responses so like it's not just you, people just don't interact with each other that often in mafia games (and also people tend to assume naked reads are gut and if the person wanted to elaborate they would?)

If you need it I will ask why is Johnny town

[Ausuka]

I mean I feel like I'm going to throw up repeatedly right now and brainfog so I might not be able to like reasonably analyse your reasoning and your alignment right away but I promise I will try at some point!