Mini Normal 2276: Around the World - Game Over!

[Ausuka]

i think johnnys town

nobody asked why btw so its very clear my opinions arent actually cared abt XOXO

so then why should i give my opinions if nobody cares?? xx

I mean you know I'm not like biased against you right??? I thought we were friends, we've talked a lot on sitechat, I like you! I just think you're scum here, and you say you think I'm likely scum here too so ??? I don't get what I'm doing wrong

[Ausuka]

if u want me to case why im town lmk but otherwise ill just focus on others..

bte u should rest dont focus on game if u sick noo i feel bad for u

Probably just focus on others? If you towncase yourself that will just make me think "ok well if she's saying that she thought it would look towny so she could've faked it" so it might just be a waste of time. Idk obviously there are exceptions to this and people can present convincing reasons to townread themselves but

[Ausuka]

Also sorry I might have overreacted since I don't feel like the most stable right now necessarily I will go and get a hot chocolate

[Ausuka]

It's ok I'm not like about to pass out or anything but as I said not feeling fantastic

Hopefully I can get back to like normal quality analysis within 2 or 3 days? I don't want to just lurk but my posting will just be like substandard I guess I hope that's ok

[Ausuka]

nvm i dont think ill have time to give a read on every1

ausuka can give me like 4-5 ppl to read whenever they see this and ill do it < 33

hi uh

I guess like alex, Bella, Johnny, Gamma?

[Ausuka]

Hi I am not fully recovered but am feeling a bit better

I agree marcostar feels townier now (I kind of feel like she wouldn't do the appeal to emotion as scum but maybe I'm too naive)

Idk where to put my vote though

[Ausuka]

hi

I am still in a bad place thinking wise but I can at least contribute I don't think the towniest scum is always the one to make the kill? The scummier one can be viewed as the most expendable I think? Especially in case of like a watcher

Still, while I was never hard townreading him I never especially like hard suspected Johnny either

STD is definitely town obviously

[Ausuka]

Gamma why are you Sus of me

[Ausuka]

Hi I am not fully recovered but am feeling a bit better

I agree marcostar feels townier now (I kind of feel like she wouldn't do the appeal to emotion as scum but maybe I'm too naive)

Idk where to put my vote though

I meant what is this

Also I think calling me townreading Bella d1 buddying is a bit of a stretch surely? Like what about the interaction makes you think that

[Ausuka]

I was concerned that you're only now acknowledging the AtE as potentially towny
I feel like it's been happening a while before you took it on board

Do you not think I might have been referring specifically to the AtE that happened shortly before I made that read

[Ausuka]

Gamma why are you Sus of me

I mean this feels like what he was doing earlier when she suspected the Shoshin/freedom slot when they were being fairly obvious town for no apparent reason?

Idk I just think it's flimsy and given that everyone else is able to townread me I find it suspicious. I think it's difficult to see the motivation to play like that as either alignment but it's maybe easier to see as coming from scum than a genuine town thought process.

Pedit: You know I'm not a lurker I'm just ill. I promise I'm not trying to be inactive

[Ausuka]

okay open my iso

read the first bunches of posting

yknow where i sused asuska and then eventually sused datisi? that IS actual game content whether yall agreed or not

why would i actually try again when suddenly everything i do is useless?
okay keep making me feel like an idiot and see how many reads thatll make me produce.

This specifically pinged town to me

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Ausuka]

I guess like

alex,

Bella,

Johnny, Gamma?

i dont think bellas posts are too hard to fake as scum :shrug:

some of her opinions seem more like they turn where the tide goes !!! and i dont think shes really done too heavy of opoinionsionsionsionsions opinions
i dont really get how someone can open up her iso and genuinely think shes been hunting but maybe i misread it idk

but idk the point some of yall have been bringing up
abt how corwin was hinting towards her or sumn?
yeah i dont see that
i dont know why he would do that. i feel like a scum tratior would be more cautious about hints for their team, instead of doing

that

, so at best i think that corwin shit is nai. i feel like finding out bellas alignment would be best by reading how she posts instead of trying to read her thru corwin but :shrug:

there goes my content for the week! whew i work hard to make this house a home

Hi I wanted you to know I did read this post

I take your point about Bella not having hunted much? I was chill with it for a long time because I tended to like the posts which she did make but also I don't totally disagree

With the other point I've seen traitor link to their entire team before? So like, I don't think it's out of the question corwin would crumb to Bella but idk

[Ausuka]

Could elim in Alex/Johnny/datisi basically

Bella could you elaborate on your feelings on these players you'd be willing to eliminate

I know you've found it difficult to get into the game so I'm sorry I can't be more specific but like, just saying the feelings you have about these players and giving them an ISO if you have the time should be fine

[Ausuka]

Subject: Large Normal 206: World Record Mafia! (GAME OVER)

Who is scum?

I'm sort of feeling FlavorLeaf for now.

There are so many players here that I have already seen/played with, that are always ? to me.
You and Mulch represent the S-tier of that.

Then there are so many guys who I don't know at all, such as Ignition, dave, Flairs....
And since these guys have only posted once or twice, I can't get a read yet.
They are all scum until I get a stronger read that says otherwise, and even then...you know how paranoid I am!

Flavor is the only one so far of whom I can say that he has been "uncharacteristic" for his usual townplay.

Unabombah was traitor and ignition, Dave and flairs were mafia

Feels pretty similar to what we saw here so I'm not sure I buy the "mafia wouldn't do that" argument

[Ausuka]

While this was a long time ago my instinct is that Unabombah's level of experience back then was similar to Corwinoid now

[Ausuka]

i mean honestly I don't even know how I feel about Alex right now

I scumread him d1 and he generally felt like scum on an instinctive level to me but since I got sick I haven't really been analysing his posts tbh, I should probably start doing that again

Why should I vote him today

[Ausuka]

Una is a very capable player and was when I left the site but I think in this game he was very new?

[Ausuka]

Regardless if Una was indeed better than Corwinoid which I don't have that much interest in contesting, doesn't that strengthen the argument that it's very possible for a traitor to crumb so obviously?

I also think on a second look Bella's ISO is just. Sort of empty of curiousity and scumhunting in general. Like sure she could just be disengaged town but I'm never going to townread an ISO like that.

I think this is actually probably the best vote today

VOTE: Bellaphant

Sheep STD, when has his bloodlust ever been wrong

[Ausuka]

I mean while I have scumread gamma and Marci at various points both also have things I think would be at least somewhat difficult for scum to fake. I'd say Alex and Bella are the only players where I don't really feel that way (Johnny probably needs review TBF) except Alex has at least shown quite a lot of desire to scumhunt even if I think some of it could be fake.

I've pretty much let Bella drift as a town read since the claim deal and I think most of the thread has done the same? But she hasn't made much use of this space. I know her internet access hasn't been great but I think there's reason to believe she could have done better than this.

I'm increasingly convinced this is a good pressure wagon at the very least.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: bella

sure

Huh, I assumed you would be one of the more resistant players to this wagon?

[Ausuka]

I've pretty much let Bella drift as a town read since the claim deal and I think most of the thread has done the same?

Btw I still think the claim is like somewhat +town but also she could just be scum with a weird role PM lol

Like let's say her role is Mafia Backup Even Night Mailman or something stupid like that

I think it makes at least some sense for her to play that situation the way she did in that scenario

[Ausuka]

Yeah missed that

[Ausuka]

I have a pretty solid towncore right now

Honestly really feeling this. Std, Freedom, Crez, Scamper and Ausuka win this game for us 100% it's why this game has been on the back burner.

Is it too shallow to see this as a townpost

[Ausuka]

I am confused by the STD role situation and given that he is outed as a PR anyway I don't understand why he's being like, so secretive about it.

[Ausuka]

I know his role is probably complicated and confusing to him too given this game but we also have datisi in this game who is literally a NRG member so outing it will only help with that. Idk

On a semi related note I hope Pooky isn't mad that they set up the whole interaction with the traitor and traffic analyst and the neighborhood and both roles died in the first phase

[Ausuka]

i am also someone who loves making up complex normal setups and setting up weird role interactions

I can confirm this

[Ausuka]

I wouldn't go so far as to say 1902 can't come from Alex/Bella but it is probably negative partner likelihood because it argues against Bella/datisi which seems like a good line for scum Alex to push in that situation

[Ausuka]

I mean ok but he's already softed what kind of role he is and I don't see how hiding the information does anything except add to confusion

[Ausuka]

i think i misread what my role does

yeah it still could be johnny. i'm just really dumb

Like if he had just left it at the RB/tracker type soft I would have been fine leaving it there

This has just baffled me

[Ausuka]

Also I understand Bella could be a power role. I'm not sure I really care?

[Ausuka]

Like being a weak PR doesn't make her any less likely to be mafia. I'm not sure how much I should tip my hand but I think her claim upon reflection makes her -more- likely to be mafia here which is part of the reason I'm doing this frankly. Mostly because I think this game would need a fair amount of VTs and the way she softed.

I know I'm being cryptic and also hypocritical but like I'm just trying not to give Bella all the information before she claims, I'm happy to explain what I'm talking about today after she does so.

[Ausuka]

I hope there are 2 ascetic millers in the game

That would be an excellent meme game

[Ausuka]

I once played a mini normal with two vigs

Shockingly they didn't shoot each other. If they had town could have lost the game on day 2

[Ausuka]

Marci if I invite you to the Super Cool Official Ausuka Townbloc Club will you explain why I should townread Alex here

[Ausuka]

Invitations are limited, hurry while stocks last

[Ausuka]

How dare you. Just for that I'm putting you in the scumbloc

[Ausuka]

If someone had CCd miller in RVS I probably would've townread them tbh

[Ausuka]

And if you close your eyes

[Ausuka]

There once was a penguin called Bella
Who did well in icy weather
But got in a bad crowd
She reaped what she sowed
And so the town laid her shroud

[Ausuka]

Are we doing massclaim today? That seems like it would make sense

[Ausuka]

Dats do you wanna claim :v

[Ausuka]

wheres all the vts this is so sus

Pooky decided to run his mini theme in the normal queue because the mini theme queue is dead

[Ausuka]

Also why do you believe datisi's claim?

[Ausuka]

I think I may as well just claim now tbh, I'm actually ascetic miller even night mailman

Yeah this doesn't really change anything does it. Freedom received my message so like he's not ascetic I suppose. The message didn't say much.

[Ausuka]

I feel like if you have a potentially confirmable role like that it is strange to randomly pew pew a scummy person on night 2. idk

Dats why did you decide to shoot tonight instead of waiting

[Ausuka]

I would probably be less Sus of it if Alex hadn't already claimed vt

We should probably like actually sort people by play though

On that subject the reason I thought Bella might be mafia is because I'm even night and she said she was odd and also claimed really easily, I thought she was my counterpart like an odd night fruit vendor or something. So then I thought, since the town needs a few VTs it's probably a bit more likely for my counterpart to be mafia instead of another town useless role

[Ausuka]

Well the part where she disappeared was the bigger influence on that, but that was the role element of it

[Ausuka]

I feel like we're not going to get much information out of the power roles this game

Given the vig shot we might have actually done better in mountainous haha

[Ausuka]

Datisi - one shot novice complex vigilante
Ausuka - ascetic miller even night mailman
Alexcellent - vanilla town, corroborated as vanilla by Datisi
JohnnyFarrar- simple combined doctor voyeur
scamper - vt
Freedom - vanilla neighbour
marcistar - vt
Gamma Emerald - VT

ok so town power is like
a traffic analyst in a neighborhood game
a friendly neighbour
two heavily nerfed vigs
a heavily nerfed doctor which can't even protect most of the game, never mind any PRs
and a negative utility

[Ausuka]

honestly do any of the pr claims even need to be scum here... I guess three confirmables and a traffic analyst is pretty heavy?

Pedit: How is mailman a false clear, that's like fruit vendor levels of NAI

[Ausuka]

yeah town power is like. heavily in that 3 players can be confirmed and Roden can confirmed the vts. And then literally nobody got confirmed in reality lmao

Also why would that ever even be considered a clear in a multitasking game that makes no sense

[Ausuka]

Alex + scamper + crescent is 3

Power wise I think I'd be ok with a 3 VT game considering the negative utility and Freedom being a vanilla neighbour

The simple roles do give me some pause but like

Idk the minds of the nrg reviewers

[Ausuka]

The 2 simple roles and 2 complex roles should indicate that there are more than 3 vts?

Setup spec wise I guess that would mean freedom is most likely maf but also like

Idk if it's worth actually paying attention to the roles outside, I believe it's fairly unlikely scum are both vt claims or both pr claims, but neither is literally impossible

Pedit: ??? Can you link because that makes no sense

[Ausuka]

Alright I'm here let's SOLVE THIS GAME

I feel like I don't want to make too many assumptions about the setup as I've said. I'd like other ppl to comment on if we think the 1 VT 1 PR distribution is highly likely.

That said I'm going to start rereading now to get some sorting going. I think the priority should be sorting Alex because he seems to have the WIM of the rest of this game combined

[Ausuka]

i dont really think scum claims ascetic miller on page 1, i think if ascetic they just claim ascetic without the miller part, cuz the extra detail is unnecessary to invent. simplest explanation is aus got given an actual weird neg util role and claimed it

ill leave this here for now

VOTE: marci

We had 7 votes in the "RVS" phase. What makes that one stand out to you any more than the others?

the caps makes it stand out

if it was an actual sentence in caps this would feel more logical but all ausuka said was "OMGUS"

i don't see how thats scummy..?

why would scum want to naked vote and draw attention to themselves?
why would shoshin

not

want to shade people this early on? it'll cause reactions for sure and help better read people? like how ur having a tantrum over them scumreading you rn
why are

you

framing everything they do in such a bad way? the certain words, "bullshitting", "dodging a question" its making a bigger deal of something than it should be.
why are

you

expecting shoshin to be perfect?

So no reason for me NOT to believe Ausuka at this point, but I don't think it's impossible that scum makes that claim.

i dont really think scum claims ascetic miller on page 1, i think if ascetic they just claim ascetic without the miller part, cuz the extra detail is unnecessary to invent. simplest explanation is aus got given an actual weird neg util role and claimed it

ill leave this here for now

VOTE: marci

Hmm we get into WIFOM territory here though. Why would scum say ascetic miller and not just ascetic? Maybe so we can have this conversation. Good lies involve detail and ascetic miller is a way to say "omg guys look at this dumb role I've got, why is this a thing?" Rather than blindly going "I'm ascetic," and everyone has to decide if they believe it or not. Also the conversation is muddied a bit more because we're no longer just going "idk if I believe Ausuka", now we're going "why would this role exist?"
But yeah, I'm just thinking out loud. This early in the game I'm happy to lean more towards accepting that there's an ascetic miller.

vote count 1.02

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-07-12 12:00:00).

yeet

marcistar[4]:

Ausuka, scamper, Datisi, Bellaphant

Shoshin[2]:

Roden, Save The Dragons

Crescent[1]:

Shoshin

Scamper[1]:

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting[5]:

InsidiousLemons, Alexcellent, Crescent, JohnnyFarrar, marcistar

mod note

Let me know if there are errors in the vote count

Flavor

Scamper still feels like obvtown in the early game and I don't think I would ever catch them as scum

The Marci wagon might be interesting? I know one mafia was inactive at daystart but would wolves leave her alone totally at the start

[Ausuka]

Q+ errors ignore that

[Ausuka]

marcistar[4]: Ausuka, scamper, Datisi, Bellaphant

I guess what I'm trying to say is I think this makes it more likely there's a wolf in Marci and Dats since I know Bella is town and I really think scamper is too

[Ausuka]

viewtopic.php?p=13378298&user_select%5B ... #p13378298

I think this is an interesting read

My first thought here is just like, she seems to struggle with scumplay a bit? So I'm more inclined to think she's scum here rather than too-scummy-to-be-scum.

Also she said she tends to be more bitchy as scum? I'm not 100% sure whether or not that applies here and I think it's hard to evaluate without being Potentially Rude

Yeah okay I’m on board now

UNVOTE: Johnny
VOTE: Marci

Reading through Alex's ISO the thing that stands out most from day 1 is this post. He pretty consistently townreads Marcistar before this point and while I can see how this meta point could make him doubt that townread, the flip onto the wagon feels very ???

[Ausuka]

Ugh I hate traitors

Trying to analyse associatives and stuff is really hard because idk if scum knew Corwin was scum or thought he was town

[Ausuka]

I mean honestly Marci I don't know lol

[Ausuka]

I mean Tbh you seem to change your reads often and it's hard to sort your progression because you don't detail stuff itt.

Can you help me sort you? Maybe sell me on a Gamma wagon?

[Ausuka]

this game is HARD guys

[Ausuka]

i dont change reads often

I mean maybe I'm misunderstanding your reads then but i think it's still true that it's not super clear what's going on in the Mind of Marcistar

I was getting town vibes from johnny earlier but like, he hasn't been doing much sorting or evaluation? Especially I feel like he's basically just had one push on Alex sustained the whole game. So I don't really know. What do you think about him?

[Ausuka]

i wish roden and std were still alive, they'd know to reverse volume clear me

I mean if you're scum I'm not sure the scumteam have necessarily been pressed enough to have had to produce content vs just watching town implode. Town is pretty low energy here and I don't think scum would want to disrupt that

Presumably on day 2 scum were kind of eating popcorn and watching us go at bella?

[Ausuka]

Ok fuck it we need wagons and I like this

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I *really* don't like his progression on me - the focus on the me/bella read was super weird. he used it to shade us both, saying that one of us must be scum because we were 'buddying' each other. i haven't heard any sort of convincing reasoning as to why this might be and it seems like a massive stretch of a read, but one that would be quite useful to scum Gamma. it's similar to what he did pushing both crescent and shoshin early game.

I also think he's deliberately excusing this behaviour which advances scum wincon using self-meta. He brings up in 1772 that as scum he wouldn't use fence-sitting because it's against his meta. He also brought this up earlier in 574; he's clearly very aware of his 'scum meta' and I think is intentionally breaking it and then telling everyone he should be townread for that.

I still think Marci is town here but I’m not interested in fighting basically the entire player list so instead you clowns can do whatever and I’ll say I told you so tomorrow

This post pings me too

that's l2 probably idk

[Ausuka]

oh i forgot to mention that the 'mailman is supposed to be a fake clear' idea is absurd and i think is most likely to be a fake push

I have sources that confirm Datisi is a dkkoba alt

[Ausuka]

somewhat confused why gamma is now calling marci scum after hard defending her the entire game?

[Ausuka]

my instinct was gamma/johnny

the gamma 'marci is town but i'm just going to let you fools lim her' post definitely gives me vibes he's scum and knows marci is a miselimination

[Ausuka]

also i don't feel like there are two scum in the vt claims? the simple roles would work better with a fair amount of vts i think

[Ausuka]

that's true and i don't want to rule it out? i just feel like the simple roles have to do Something

maybe that's too naive of me lole

[Ausuka]

that said uh if alex is town, and i kind of feel like he is mainly because he's here and actively solving and pushing things and sounds somewhat genuine (i had a look at his completed towngame and while i still feel he was sharper? in his pushes d1, a lot of my tonal concerns would have been present in that game too.) then johnny basically just pushing on him all game looks kind of bad? idk players like johnny and bella are difficult reads for me

[Ausuka]

i think my issue here is that nobody instinctually makes sense as scum. like, johnny does, but like he doesn't strike me as a type of scum player to come up with the claim he did come up, yknow. unless he's scum with like, idk, ausuka or something. and i don't wanna think about that

would pooky put a mafia doctor voyeur in the game?

[Ausuka]

ftr if i was scum i would have my partner claim town informed compulsive combined visitor gunsmith checker (you are informed no gunsmith exists in this game)

[Ausuka]

ftr if i was scum i would have my partner claim town informed compulsive combined visitor gunsmith finder(you are informed no gunsmith exists in this game)

i feel sort of bad for taking up two posts with shitposting but, fixed

[Ausuka]

Yeah i think i'm just going to pretend we're playing mountainous

I feel like the intent was to make the game impossible to guess, to punish outguessing the mod, but the endpoint is that there's tons of mechanical fluff and in the end power roles just aren't helpful for town lots of the time and the game is massively swingy. idk

[Ausuka]

I mean i also thought that was towny at the time but it's possible it was just scum gamma seeing an opening to make a push and deciding to take it? I don't think scum always, like, overthink their actions

[Ausuka]

yeah, i do see where you're coming from and i think it's +town for gamma but i think there are more reasons to be suspicious?

did you think my reasons for voting gamma made sense?

[Ausuka]

I think the tone is normal for Gamma from what I remember. I don't think it's AI particularly

[Ausuka]

can you elaborate on how I've been buddying datisi beyond us voting together on a few wagons? the Bella buddying accusation also just seems like total nonsense, you've been pushing our slots as connected since day 1 for basically zero reason and now Bella's been miselimmed you're using it to push me.

[Ausuka]

I think miller doesn't make sense on an ascetic either way. It's a troll role. Sometimes modifiers and complicated roles are designed to be somehow elegant in normal setups, but sometimes in games like this I'm convinced the setup is just like, meant to troll the players to whatever extent possible. If there's a design intent there I'm not seeing it.

[Ausuka]

I have noticed that one tends to follow the other and they seem very on the same page a lot.

I mean I've made it clear I don't really townread Dats and at points I have worried about buddying, but at the same time I think I'd somewhat expect this from town him? We're friends and I think that we think pretty similarly?

[Ausuka]

That doesn't seem even close to a "100%" read

[Ausuka]

I get where you're coming from but I think the way he actively pushes a pair of people as scummy at the same time and repeatedly says 'oh btw that's not my scum meta' afterwards is worse than what Datisi's doing, because while Datisi is using self meta to defend himself he's not using it to deflect criticism of an actively scummy action like Gamma is, if that makes sense.

[Ausuka]

I've spent some time looking through potential teams and the vast majority of them ended up in the "highly unlikely" pile.

huh honestly I would say a lot of teams are at least possible? Though maybe I haven't looked into it enough

the gamestate is sort of stale but idk what to try and do differently

[Ausuka]

eh maybe I should just be more patient

[Ausuka]

oh I just realized

the mailman makes me a miller to the traffic analyst

as if the role wasn't already troll enough I'm a triple miller

Thanks pooky

[Ausuka]

freedom, what do your reads look like right now?

Town

STD (His roleclaim seems genuine, his dayplay seems Towny)
scamper (intent to solve, townspewed by Corwin flip)
Datisi / Ausuka / Crescent / Alex / Gamma (intent to solve)
marci (Null)
Bella / Johnny (by PoE)

Mafia

Freedom are your reads more detailed than who has intent to solve

Who should we murder today

[Ausuka]

I'd like to echo that sentiment to Johnny too.

I think there are very rarely two scum in the VT claims here, maybe it's foolish but I believe that. If either of you were to remove yourselves from the Poe it would help a lot

[Ausuka]

first!!!

VOTE: ausuka

whoever doesn't have an avatar, please get one, it's really difficult for me to read the game otherwise. i will even resize it for you if needed.

Meow

Never gotten it to work and didn't care enough to keep trying.

Ok I'm maybe starting to overthink things

Datisi you have been on MS more recently than me, do you think Gamma's Push on me is something he's capable of actually believing?

Because while my instinct is to omgus it I think I'm a really poor push for scum Gamma to make here.

[Ausuka]

I read shoshin as obvious town and I thought freedom was a town PR because of the neighborhood

Shoshin hasn't been in the game for weeks and Freedom kind of seems like a frozen wolf?? Like for someone who hasn't even been lurking necessarily we have got basically nothing from him

No idea how that crescent quote got there btw but I wish crescent was here, she'd be telling everyone to post the fuck up and making nonstop references to that other mini normal she played

[Ausuka]

Spoiler: Quotes where I think freedom is being suspiciously agreeable

STD made a brilliant take in 279 which I don't think that he'll ever post as scum.

Can you explain this? I think the neighborhood thing would not be particularly difficult for scum to do and am confused as to why you found it towny.

He had no reason to want to make us think that scum was in the hood. He could easily convince us that we should use the hood as a psuedo-Masonry and hunt for scum outside. But instead, he takes the risky move of saying that scum could be in our hood.
Though, my POV is affected by the fact that I am in the hood.

I think anyone suggesting that a four player hood be seen as a masonry would be scumread for it so I don't think that's an approach scum are especially likely to take?

I see.
I didn't know this.
Though TBH if he suggested that we shoud pretend to be Masons, I would probably have fallen for it.
Now, you're maing me doubt my TR on STD.

like, i'm not talking about it wrt moral in mafia (even though it is kinda yikes attacking people for v/la), i'm talking about it wrt content because i cannot figure out what is supposed to be the scum motivation for "i'm in a hood. ok cool bye"

This is a really good point.
STD was obviously excited about our hood.
He was clearly enthused in it.
Even if he wasn't on V/LA, there's no scum motivation for not posting in one day after telling everybody about the hood.

I hate STD's posts btw

Why?
He seems fine to me.

I think his pushes suck. Like literally all four of them

I agree somewhat.
I think that of his proposed pushes, only the one on JF can be justified (based on how you interpret).
The one on Corniwoid could be justified but his justification seems to be mainly because Corniwoid hasn't posted much in the hood.

Basic assumptions about balance like you shouldn't put 2 vigs in a 12 player game, or you shouldn't make ICs bulletproof, or you shouldn't put three mafia doctors in a gunsmith game? Normal mods can and do mess with players in this way. Maybe it's pointless to talk in circles about it though.

This sounds like one of Datisi's games.

Because my suspicion of Datisi has been lighter than my suspicion of Marci and then Marci started openwolfing

I mean the post I quoted alone has to be the scummiest thing in this game so far? Marci gets pushed, seems to completely crumble under pressure, insists she's sure Dats is scum, and then turns around and says 'oh Dats you're so silly tunneling me here! btw I'm going to go lurk now for Better Reads or whatever'

I agree.
That sounds very like scum!marci, at least per Micro 1056 which Datisi mentioned. I'm pretty sure that when Faker called her scum, she started saying things like:

PLEASE you're scum

Though, she didn't switch back.
So, maybe this could be town!marci?

in before

I see.

What I'm trying to say is I don't think the scummy stuff necessarily needs to be looked at through the lens of a scum strategy.

This is a good point.
Not everybody strategises as scum. Some people as scum panic and do ridiculous things like locking into a minigame that is the easiest for scum in GotF early.

Hm. On a side note, I just remembered Alex constantly trying to get Shoshin to notice Corwin.

I don't know if Alex would do that if they were scum together.

I think that scum could do so.
It isn't exactly clearing.
Especially, if people like to replicate their towngame as scum.
But then, in all, it's probably NAI.

Good point.
So it's very likely that marci's scum with Corwin.

Eh, I don't think scum!Ausuka would lose anything by mailing you. You're fairly well trusted and townread and can confirm the letter which confirms her mailman claim, which kind of makes her appear more town. The other alternative is you're scum partners together But compared to every other possible team in the game I find this super unlikely.

That's a good point.
She does have nothing to lose.

I feel like freedom's iso is kind of fluffy and empty in general. I think these quotes stand out as overly agreeable in a way that pings me as suspicious. Particularly I don't like the part where I said I hate STD's posts, he asks why because he thinks STD is fine, I say his pushes suck - I was Phoneposting and in hindsight that was a pretty terrible response to Freedom's question, and he just agrees and says STD's posts aren't justifiable? In general I think he seems, easily influenced might be the word? And seems to lack strong convictions as to who's scum and a hesitation to like actively go around pushing people

[Ausuka]

The thing that gives me pause is like, was Shoshin ever actually a wolf here

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Freedom

Eh I'm convinced this is a better vote than gamma for now

Join me, easily manipulated townie

[Ausuka]

Woah wait where are the freedom votes coming from?

Basically I think his posts since replacing in have seemed frozen. He's around but I never get the sense he's trying to eliminate mafia

Do you disagree with my reasoning? Who should I be voting instead

[Ausuka]

oh I just realized

the mailman makes me a miller to the traffic analyst

as if the role wasn't already troll enough I'm a triple miller

Thanks pooky

traffic analyst only works on vanillas, though, and even if it didnt, the ascetic part would make it irrelevant, though?

Well yeah but ascetic miller is redundant anyway, I'm just saying the point of the role is that it's a Funny Triple Miller probably

[Ausuka]

yeah idk I'm tempted to just throw Alex, datisi, scamper, and gamma into the do not vote pile just because they're the only ones doing anything

[Ausuka]

I've spent some time looking through potential teams and the vast majority of them ended up in the "highly unlikely" pile.

huh honestly I would say a lot of teams are at least possible? Though maybe I haven't looked into it enough

the gamestate is sort of stale but idk what to try and do differently

From where I sit most of the teams involve me having to scum read a town read or involve some pretty heavy busing and nifty scum play.

I do get the feeling like maybe my town reads aren't as great as I think they are

Yeah idk I guess I just tend to assume bussing happens more often than most people do
I don't play with traitors often so idk how that affects the dynamic, it's probably a postgame discussion to be had but I'm somewhat baffled as to why traitor is a normal role

[Ausuka]

i hate to even say it but the reactive omgus from gamma feels kind of towny

yeah I sort of agree

I don't hate the JF wagon but like.

Idk I feel like the freedom approach of, talk about mechs and be overly agreeable is more Wolfy than the Johnny approach of do fuck all (sorry Johnny)

I see where you're coming from in saying shoshin was towny because I agree but I've been giving him a pass partially because of that for ages and it feels like he's openwolfing

[Ausuka]

if it's Freedom scum then it means the hood was 2 towns 2 scum.

I think the traitor makes this more likely

Also I wasn't going to bring this up because I have like zero faith in my ability to setup spec but like I think town is kind of weak here??? And freedom being scum allows for the PR claims being real and for there to be enough VTs. Idk

[Ausuka]

I have not played with people who don't care if they're VT but maybe that's because I don't play theme games very often

I feel like that could just be wifom yeah? I mean he says he's reconsidering his reads which even though it happened at my prompting I'd love to see it

[Ausuka]

What do you think of the freedom wagon Marci

[Ausuka]

:v

[Ausuka]

When I said Alex had the WIM of everyone else in the game combined I wasn't joking

[Ausuka]

I agree town neighbour is plain

I don't think it's like impossible that Pooky would put a vanilla neighbour in the game but I think the mechanics of simple roles kind of make it less likely

[Ausuka]

I feel like postgame someone is going to quote all these posts and be like "You deserved to lose because you speculated on the PRs, power roles aren't there to give town information they're there to fuck with the playerlist"

I still think freedom is scummy on play though so

[Ausuka]

when did i ever say i thought u were scum

???

[Ausuka]

I think Pooky decided the best way to troll us would be to put five wolves in the game

[Ausuka]

{scamper}
{Alex}
{datisi, Gamma}
{Marci, Johnny}
{Freedom}

[Ausuka]

Honestly I kind of forgot I had the mailman power for a while and when I realised I had to send in a PM I was like, I should probably use this but I have nothing to say I wouldn't say in the thread? Then I remembered earlier people were talking about why Roden was killed, and I wanted to say it was because scum thought PRs would be in the hood after Corwin's flip, but I couldn't say that in case scum genuinely hadn't made the connection. I decided to send the message saying that to Freedom because they were in the hood and I thought they were more likely to live after STD softed a roleblocking/investigative type role.

[Ausuka]

Honestly I don't get the point of mailman as a role for that reason, I think most players wouldn't have much use for it. I could see it as an additional ability for an investigative, though, in a large especially I could see how like a Gunsmith or something could get use out of it.

[Ausuka]

If you're around could you help me sort Marci

She's like a mysterious enigma to me

I feel like after reading Eurybia's curse this looks pretty similar to what Marci is doing right now I guess, I don't think Marci would be playing massively differently as town

I do feel like she's being incredibly difficult to sort and I didn't like a lot of her day 1 stuff tbh...

The vt claim works in her favour but I've started thinking she's slightly more likely than Gamma?

[Ausuka]

i think its mostly hard cuz ppl have this like golden trio of suspects
im in the golden trio
so i know the golden trio isnt it
but i dont know where exactly everyones clowning

if yall want to lim me go ahead, since corwind claimed jailkeep i would be the better lim anyways.
but that doesnt change what im saying
yall are wrong somewhere.

this is somewhat reminiscent of how I've played when feeling cornered as town in the past I guess?

I still don't understand her d1 datisi read

[Ausuka]

Yeah I don't know either... I wish we had an investigative for her maybe if we can flip a scum it'll be easier, gotta just wait patiently for Freedom and Johnny to start posting I guess

[Ausuka]

Your fault for not wanting to be in the townbloc tbh...

[Ausuka]

u sux

[Ausuka]

to be fair if we quicklimmed datisi before he came online it would be extremely funny

I think I'd get banned for GT though

[Ausuka]

If datisi is scum I don't think he's going to be caught unless people start like towning it up in here because the current environment is easy af for scum datisi to blend in with and I don't see how he gets voted out over like Johnny or whatever

We could just random Lim him but I think he'd block me

[Ausuka]

i also kind of think datisi's role is towny but like

Trying to ignore setup spec because I feel like trying to pay any attention to the roles has a decent chance of biting us in the ass

[Ausuka]

Not in his usage of it which is highly questionable but more so 'i think town power is in the use of confirmable roles' I guess? Who knows

[Ausuka]

Mini Normal 2276: Around the World

moderator & designer:

PookyTheMagicalBear

|

backup moderator:

Implosion

|

primary reviewer:

mastina

|

secondary reviewer:

ircher

player list:

1. Datisi
   
2. Bellaphant
   
3. Ausuka
   
4. Crescent
   
5. Alexcellent
   
6. JohnnyFarrar
   
7. InsidiousLemons
   Corwinoid*
   
8. Save The Dragons
   
9. scamper
   
10. Roden
    
11. Shoshin
    Freedom
    
12. marcistar
    
13. Gamma Emerald

alive players:

Spoiler:

1. Datisi
   
2. Ausuka
   
3. Alexcellent
   
4. JohnnyFarrar
   
5. scamper
   
6. Freedom
   
7. marcistar
   
8. Gamma Emerald

dead players:

Spoiler:

1. Corwinoid,
   MAFIA BULLETPROOF TRAITOR JAILKEEPER NEIGHBOR
   , yeeted day 1
   
2. Roden,
   TOWN SIMPLE TRAFFIC ANALYZER NEIGHBOR
   , killed night 1
   
3. Bellaphant,
   TOWN NOVICE COMPLEX NONCONSECUTIVE FRIENDLY NEIGHBOR
   , yeeted day 2
   
4. Save the Dragons,
   TOWN SIMPLE VIGILANTE NEIGHBOR
   , killed night 2
   
5. Crescent,
   VANILLA TOWNIE
   , killed night 2

Spoiler: VoteCounter

Living Players

Datisi
Bellaphant
Ausuka
Crescent
Alexcellent
JohnnyFarrar
Save The Dragons
scamper
freedom
marcistar
Gamma Emerald

Links

Day 1: 1

Deadline

2022-07-12 12:00:00 1.00

what process

[Ausuka]

i also kind of think datisi's role is towny but like

Trying to ignore setup spec because I feel like trying to pay any attention to the roles has a decent chance of biting us in the ass

His role as claimed has a net zero effect on the setup in practice

I mean yes but if he didn't use the shot on someone vanilla it would have confirmed him I guess?

[Ausuka]

did she say you're scum THO???

If she doesn’t think that she should remove her vote

maybe she just wants to eliminate town

[Ausuka]

idk I have had literally no idea what Marci is doing for most of the game

I feel like I need to outsource my Marcistar read but I get the feeling no one else knows how to read her either

Pedit: Yeah I think everyone knew it but you didn't have to say it

[Ausuka]

I guess I'm wondering why it's demotivating for you to be townread? Does it matter so much how people are reading you?

[Ausuka]

I mean that's fair but there's a lot of other stuff in the game than people's reads on you right?

[Ausuka]

I mean, that's true? Most people find your posting suspicious. If you're town you could help us out by setting us on a better path.

[Ausuka]

So, is there anybody who we should wagon today?
I'm fine wagoning any of my nulls since I lack SRs.

I don't know what the point would be? It feels like we're going around in circles. I'm sure it'd benefit you if we switched the wagon regardless of alignment but you haven't really shown us the effort to advance the town wincon after being pressured.

I mean, now that you've been revealed, I read datisi's micro. I was impressed by your play. You seemed to show good scumhunting skills. Where is literally any of that here?

[Ausuka]

Like, there's only so much town can do when only half the playerlist seems to be here and actively willing to push people as mafia. This game feels immensely lethargic. There aren't really competing wagons ever and I think it's fair to say that me, Alex and Datisi aren't really town-leader types of players. Gamma and Marci are here but I have no idea what they're doing. I'm finding it difficult to sort people in this environment.

Maybe there's a part of the game that could be reread to help? I don't know.

[Ausuka]

I agree with you. I think what Freedom is doing is like marginally scummier because he seems to be like, making some sort of effort to post and skate by without doing anything to help town win. But obviously I can't townread Johnny here either.

[Ausuka]

I guess Shoshin is working in Freedom's favour though? If it weren't for that I would be a lot more sure this is the right elimination today. I guess I just feel stuck right now. Maybe I should stop posting for a bit until Johnny comes back or Freedom does something or marci starts like, making a push on Datisi or whoever she actually does scumread.

[Ausuka]

Could you at least quote the posts that make you feel that way?

[Ausuka]

It is one of many possibilities

I don't know rh9 meta that well tbf but from what I've seen I definitely feel like he is capable of more as town? Idk.

[Ausuka]

I have a pretty solid towncore right now

Honestly really feeling this. Std, Freedom, Crez, Scamper and Ausuka win this game for us 100% it's why this game has been on the back burner.

This is the only thing that gives me pause

I feel like Johnny maybe wants to do more than this if his partner is exactly Marcistar? Std shooting crescent ended up being equivalent to a miselimination there in practice but I don't think scum Johnny could have anticipated this and I think Johnny here is sort of backing himself into a corner in that scenario. I don't think crescent would ever have been eliminated normally and it would've been difficult to pivot because Crescent is active and 100% would have given him shit.

[Ausuka]

idk this game is really difficult with absolutely nobody playing

I'm playing

[Ausuka]

Honestly the traitor thing is kind of difficult to work around with associatives.

I want to say scum probably never realised he was the traitor, except maybe after the jailkeeper claim? Because townies play scummy all the time. I'm sure they were aware of the possibility but I'm not sure how you would play around it as scum? If that makes any sense, I know I can be sort of rambly so please let me know if I ever need to clarify.

[Ausuka]

Oh, it's not my scumday in my timezone but thank you!

[Ausuka]

I'm clean now

If there are 4 neighbours, an ascetic Miller and whatever Bella is, does a JK really fit here?

i mean, any of the neighbours could be scum

True, actually I forgot Corwin’s a neighbour

“Town Neighbour Jailkeeper”

Does this sound like a thing?

It's probable. There's no reason why a Town JK Neighbor couldn't exist.
However, this wouldn't match up with Ausuka and Bella. There would be too many Town PRs and suggest that Mafia has some fancy PRs too.

Don't love this

could this be distancing??

[Ausuka]

I feel like shoshin and Marci's whole thing near the start of day 1 was anti associative

I guess it might not be too important to look for teams for now but maybe it could help us decide the best vote for today

[Ausuka]

Yeah regardless of alignment Johnny is just prodgeposting. Maybe I should meta him to see if he struggles more to make meaningful content as scum

[Ausuka]

Ok I had a look at Johnny's past games, I couldn't notice any obvious difference between his town and scum game. He is definitely capable of lurking as town. I guess I struggle to sort people like that in general.

[Ausuka]

I don't see why it wouldn't be, it sort of works as a vanilla cop that can also detect players who can visit, eg if Roden and Johnny target the same player Johnny is alerted to Roden being a PR.

That being said I do feel like town is slightly light on power so idk??

[Ausuka]

I mean you have a traffic analyst and three confirmable roles hypothetically so maybe I'm full of shit and the reality is town just played our PRs not that well

[Ausuka]

I feel like mafia having a jailkeeper is weird but like

Who am I kidding this setup is so complicated I think speculating on how mastina and pooky would view balance is impossible.

[Ausuka]

Johnny is just extremely eh to me

Like I can see him flipping either way I guess. I think Freedom's play has been marginally scummier but he has Shoshin going for him so I see where you're coming from. He hasn't done much for the town that's true.

You're right about jailkeeper as well, it can be a powerful role in scum hands but it'd be impossible to coordinate. I guess theoretically if Freedom is scum they could eventually make it an all mafia neighbourhood but mafia wouldn't know at the start what they had to do.

[Ausuka]

There's also the possibility that he's just like, lied about the doctor part too.

I mean yeah, although I doubt he's just a simple voyeur

It could be something weird like ninja voyeur I guess lol

[Ausuka]

A few years ago I played a scumgame where the last mafia alive had a Simple modifier and because of that they couldn't nightkill any PRs. I wonder if it would be the same for Johnny

[Ausuka]

I don't hate it

[Ausuka]

I mean freedom/Johnny is probably the scumteam I was looking at most closely anyway? So I could swing for it

I guess I was hoping Johnny was just busy and would come around without needing to be wagoned but it's not looking likely

[Ausuka]

Johnny's town.

johnny has not posted between 341 and 413?

I reevaluated him after Crescent mentioned he was scummy. Realized he's obvtown.

[Ausuka]

It was a large theme that supposedly followed normal guidelines

I think there's been stuff like loud mafia goon before???? Idk though I feel like the general trend would be "it doesn't work that way because no one would want it to work that way and it's stupid"

Pedit: To be fair I think everyone was townreading Shoshin there

[Ausuka]

This is bananas to me just because scum in a hood with the traitor sounds wild. Like, really wild.

In a game with an ascetic miller even night mailman, simple combined doctor voyeur and complex novice non consecutive night friendly neighbour, that's what you have an issue with?

[Ausuka]

Johnny I'm not super clear what your read on Freedom is? You seem to be like somewhat resistant to the idea he can be scum but also agree with Alex that he's one of the major scum candidates?

[Ausuka]

Marci is getting a huge botd from Aussie and Alex here, just blasting a Datisi scumread outta nowhere, and I don't understand their patience there?

idk man marci is Marci she's just like that

[Ausuka]

if I tried to press her harder on the read she'd probably just be like "no fuck you lol"

[Ausuka]

dats failed to shoot Alex because he's a nerd who doesn't know how to fire a gun properly

I feel like given mafia having daychat Johnny not knowing that might be towny???

or maybe he's just not reading the mafia PT either

[Ausuka]

Sorry I feel like I'm coming across as more harsh than I'm intending, but like, if you're town here could you pick the player you want to push right now? I think we all have a pretty much common poe so I don't really see the point in reaffirming that.

[Ausuka]

Also I can confirm that I've fully recovered from illness so you should be able to expect normal activity from me from now on.

[Ausuka]

it's not enough for the setup to troll us, marci is doing so as well

[Ausuka]

yes I think about my scumday a lot obviously

[Ausuka]

Honestly idk I would just dayvig half the game if I could

[Ausuka]

I get the feeling that while Johnny and freedom have at least given reads I'm not sure how to sort their content. Like I understand this game is hard but it's basically just "the towny people are town and the scummy people are scum" which like sure I guess

[Ausuka]

I guess something I'm thinking about with Marci is

At the start of the game she strongly pushes me, to get the game started or for reactions or whatever

But her playstyle just does a 180 at some point? And now whereas before she was giving like really excessive explanations now she doesn't explain her reads at all and refuses even when asked. I'm not sure why she did this but I think it's somewhat likely to come from scum who thought her approach on day 1 isn't working???

[Ausuka]

Do I get a scumday party

[Ausuka]

I mean you did the troll face, that's pretty strong evidence tbh

[Ausuka]

dats failed to shoot Alex because he's a nerd who doesn't know how to fire a gun properly

I feel like given mafia having daychat Johnny not knowing that might be towny???

or maybe he's just not reading the mafia PT either

im not sure forgetting what the claim is is AI but the paranoia mite b townie actually, ugh

UNVOTE:

yeah idk, I was assuming Johnny's partner was keeping him up to date but if it's like freedom or Marci I can see them not doing that??

[Ausuka]

I feel like I understand where Alex is coming from. I think with the freedom wagon I'm maybe pretending to be more decisive than I am but realistically there are a pool of players who would be reasonably likely to flip red and not a great deal to differentiate between them

[Ausuka]

I will say I think Freedom's behaviour is fairly clear cut the scummiest of anyone and the role claim is also probably the worst. Shoshin is the only thing that makes me doubt that push.

[Ausuka]

I feel like your posts today would be easy to townread for Johnny as either alignment. Honestly I vaguely like JF when he posts usually but it's not like a strong conviction.

Pedit: I mean ok true but it also seems fairly similar to Eurybia's curse maybe?

[Ausuka]

just elim me if u guys want to so badly
like im not gonna really fight it i dont have the motivation for that

like its true

idrc for being forced to give reads
even so, i dont even knowwhat my reads are rn, im so confused abt everything and i was purposely trying to fade out yeah.

like its true

idrc for being forced to give reads
even so, i dont even knowwhat my reads are rn, im so confused abt everything and i was purposely trying to fade out yeah.

like, if you're town here, this is just not helpful

you don't have to give reads on everyone but at least put a vote down and stand for

something

if you believe Gamma's scum you're never going to get them eliminated with this attitude so to me it's hard to see a genuine townie trying to win

maybe i would be more helpful if u STOPPED TRYING TO FORCE ME TO DO STUFF

just elim me if u guys want to so badly
like im not gonna really fight it i dont have the motivation for that

This feels pretty fake..

elim me then......

do it do it

losing energy when pushed) i think is actually pretty prototypical of her scumgame

i lost energy even before i was pushed tbhs but sure lets say its because i got pushed :kekw:

This is what I was referring to but on review I think her play in Eurybia's curse was better on balance. Like, Marci's never going to be an Alexcellent type player, but I think there was more reasoning and analysis that looked insightful in that game even if it was still light-hearted in tone.

Sorry I know I'm being indecisive again I suck at mafia tbh

[Ausuka]

Basically Marci is somewhat scummy in my eyes not because of what she's doing but what she's not doing I guess. She's capable of the ate and gut pushing behaviour as town but I think she showed a more consistently gsmesolvy attitude as town?? She's kind of just been on Dats since d1 and a whole lot of her stuff has been incoherent. Sorry Marci you know I like you.

[Ausuka]

I mean we've been enemies since the start it's more like a fight between siblings

[Ausuka]

Eh whatever let's turn up the heat

VOTE: marcistar

e-2

[Ausuka]

You are my fire

The one desire

Believe when I say

I want it that way

[Ausuka]

I mean we have two and a half days

I think you probably want to target a VT claim?? Mechanics are hard but I think the most likely use case for your role is that you either successfully protect a VT or catch a VT claim which is actually Mafia Night 4 Announcing Follower or something

[Ausuka]

If Alex is scum here I'd be super impressed. I've felt aligned with a lot of his thoughts today and in a stalled gamestate he was willing to go the extra mile to actually produce content. I don't think going after him or scamper is ever going to be worth it in terms of winrate.

[Ausuka]

I thought about it for a bit and if marci flips red I'm probably still going after freedom. So like, if I die someone do that please.

[Ausuka]

Basic assumptions about balance like you shouldn't put 2 vigs in a 12 player game, or you shouldn't make ICs bulletproof, or you shouldn't put three mafia doctors in a gunsmith game? Normal mods can and do mess with players in this way. Maybe it's pointless to talk in circles about it though.

This sounds like one of Datisi's games.

Because my suspicion of Datisi has been lighter than my suspicion of Marci and then Marci started openwolfing

I mean the post I quoted alone has to be the scummiest thing in this game so far? Marci gets pushed, seems to completely crumble under pressure, insists she's sure Dats is scum, and then turns around and says 'oh Dats you're so silly tunneling me here! btw I'm going to go lurk now for Better Reads or whatever'

I agree.
That sounds very like scum!marci, at least per Micro 1056 which Datisi mentioned. I'm pretty sure that when Faker called her scum, she started saying things like:

PLEASE you're scum

Though, she didn't switch back.
So, maybe this could be town!marci?

I thought the shoshin-marci interaction was unlikely to be s/s but both of those players are unconventional so I guess I could see s!shoshin coming in to hard defend her, maybe?

This looks like a fairly safe partner read, Freedom distancing from marci a bit but unwilling to commit.

[Ausuka]

I keep tripping up on the fact that I find it really hard to see scum Shoshin and if Freedom is scum here it's exceptional play from her. I don't know

[Ausuka]

Freedom is like sooooo scummy though, you guys see it right?

[Ausuka]

I am aligned with the

town.

[Ausuka]

I mean I would highly encourage eating dinner! But like, you don't have to make a whole entire essay on Datisi?? Just like, 1-3 paragraphs explaining your reasoning and maybe a couple of examples of posts which show your point?

[Ausuka]

but whenever i actually give a read its like

idk how to word it in a lesser way so i just have to explain IT ALL

and usually ppl end up making me feel dumb anyways so then usually i end up quieting down on reads after i feel dumb abt it

and what i cucrrently have makes it look like yall will make me feel dumb about it

Is there a way we could question your thought process without making you feel dumb?

[Ausuka]

Idk I don't want to be mean or rude but I don't feel like I can just give you a free pass here.

[Ausuka]

I feel like this could be genuine ate from scum marci maybe??? Idk

[Ausuka]

You're very strongly town on Datisi?

[Ausuka]

You're very strongly town on Datisi?

i am

No offense but I would literally never trust someone with a sou hiyori avatar

[Ausuka]

P-edit: much more strongly than others in the game

Idk I struggle to sort him because like

What he's doing makes sense for town but would be trivially easy for scum to fake

I don't feel like scum Datisi would have been out of his comfort zone for the entire game and I don't understand his decision to shoot a very possible vanilla on n2

At the same time I'm not sure I could justify voting him when he's been more helpful than most of the game

[Ausuka]

I feel like it's very difficult to catch a scum player like Datisi unless you put them in a situation where they struggle to find convincing miseliminations and this game is uh

Not that environment

[Ausuka]

yeah uh, a part of the reason why i was playing sorta scummily the whole game was because i was counting on the fact i can confirm myself

first off this is kinda stinky

I mean I can see where you're coming from in that he took like no measures to make sure he could actually confirm himself in practise?

At the same time, i feel like scum datisi is very capable of playing Towny so idk why he didn't just do that

[Ausuka]

Could you point to how you think he's buddying me? sorry to ask you to do things at work you can just do it later I guess

[Ausuka]

isnt that cos i have him pocketed tho...

Really though, I guess I should let Datisi defend himself instead of doing it for him so I'm not going to talk at length about it but like... While it's not impossible you're right I'm not seeing it right now? I mean, it's even possible he's just scum and is just trying to adopt an attitude that is easy for scum to fake and theoretically pro town but I don't see the pocket thing

[Ausuka]

I mean I'm not even saying you're wrong, I nullread datisi, I just don't see him as the scummiest player here I guess

[Ausuka]

tbh where is datisis read triangles...

[Ausuka]

ok it feels like the wagon is dying so back to this

VOTE: Freedom

[Ausuka]

oh uh we have less than 36 hours i think we should try and be active? i'll be here for a while if anyone wants to talk and try and reach a consensus.

[Ausuka]

I will probably only vote for freedom or marci today? Preferably freedom tbh. Maybe johnny or dats if absolutely necessary.

[Ausuka]

I will say I think Freedom's behaviour is fairly clear cut the scummiest of anyone and the role claim is also probably the worst. Shoshin is the only thing that makes me doubt that push.

Why is my claim bad?

I missed this - I think
1) Town needs significant power and also needs plenty of VTs. Both of our roles are effectively useless and therefore fairly unlikely to coexist, although I wouldn't rule it out because loltrollgame and I don't fully understand what balances a normal game.
2) It's somewhat odd you're the only neighbour who's vanilla. I could see you possibly being some form of scummy mafia PR who didn't want to either trueclaim or make up a claim so just claimed vanilla neighbour.

[Ausuka]

Rolespec is just a minor part of that read because I don't trust it. The main part of my push is that I think your scumhunting here is very lacking - most of the posts you make seem tangential, and ever since d2 your reads have been that players who post and have influence are towny for having 'intent to solve'. You post a decent amount but don't really seem to be trying to find the mafia - I feel you're just kind of there, often correcting people or making minor points about the setup. I think you're a pretty good player as town from what I've seen, so this kind of low-impact game feels scummy coming from you. I think the scum motivation in posting this way - to skate by and mostly escape notice while not outright lurking per se - is much clearer than the town motivation.