In post 421, MegAzumarill wrote:I honestly have no clue how anything Ari has been doing in the last few pages could come from a town mindset. It's vague, weak, circular arguements for a read that hasn't been fleshed out since day 2.
i don't see how any of that matters
weak arguments != scum
i think the way she's handling her scumreads and her approach to them is generally very likely to be town, she doesnt need to put herself out in front so much as mafia and the way she is treating her reads makse me think she really believes in them
i don't think ausuka's response to ari is scummy and i'm leaning on it being +town for her too
i'm not scumreading datisi in this exchange, but i am also explicitly *not* townreading him
It's being presented in an incredibly contrived manner.
The approach is terrible logically and is transparantly bad.
Ausuka responded with the type of frustration I'd expect from a townie in this situation.
Why do you think the approach is townie? Because it puts her front and center? That is literally what a charismatic mafia would WANT to do. It's an incredibly powerful position, and I would not be surprised if this kind of position is why the whole ordeal is so convulited in the first place.
again, you can think her reasoning is contrived and terrible logically but that doesnt make her scum. i think the conviction behind her pushing the read is genuine and her reasoning for it makes sense from her perspective and i dont actually get what your issue with it is supposed to be
no, i dont think a charismtic mafia plays the way ari has, i think charismatic scum players are good at making themselves not be the center of attention. premising it on the idea that "a good scum could play this way" is pretty terrible logic in and of itself. i think that player archetype is actually fairly rare and a player like ari is significantly more likely to take a backseat as scum.
The thing is I think Ari knows its bad and is pushing it anyway. That's not what town does. Period.
Charismatic scum players have numerous ways to play and you do realize for a good portion of the game Ari was doing that. They are always completely on the side or one of the biggest forces on the town. I just haven't seen any middle ground and it's jarring in the least.
Ari is charismatic. I'm not saying "a good mafia could do this" I am saying "it is to Ari's benefit as mafia to do what she is currently doing"
I don't think ari is obfuscating their involvement or whatever but I think most of the other things meg said is correct - Ari is trying to push absolute nonsense and circular logic here imo and I would just expect better from town her
Like surely almost everyone can agree that the "I don't care about making sense I care about being right" line was terrible
No matter what happens, I'll be right there with you.
and so now i have ari/xay/auss as townie, meg maybe a shade below that
and so this is kind of making me suspicious of dats in the remainder of people, because i dont think hes towntold and some of his takes have made me raise my eyebrow a bit
truthfully i had been theorizing dats/coral in the early game but i think that is slightly less likely right now
In post 445, MegAzumarill wrote:To set up a miselim on Ausuka. (Probably not today but in the future)
To try and gain a strong scum prescence in the thread to direct conversations into this issue
To shade in a way that obfuscates your involvement
how am I shading in a way that obfuscates my involvement?
do you think a single player here would doubt who is responsible for Ausuka being yeeted if we yeet Ausuka today or tommorrow?
Then stop pushing in a way that prompts others to take the action. Die on the hill articulating your case rather than this convuluted take of "oh you have one lim to hit scum or we kill you" It's a dissonant force you put between the two of you which is the type of thing scum would try to do even jf that wasn't an explicit intention.
In post 457, Ausuka wrote:I don't think ari is obfuscating their involvement or whatever but I think most of the other things meg said is correct - Ari is trying to push absolute nonsense and circular logic here imo and I would just expect better from town her
Like surely almost everyone can agree that the "I don't care about making sense I care about being right" line was terrible
i think a line like that is way more likely to come from town
i mean maybe I'm biased or something but what am I supposed to do with that? Ari is convinced I'm scum no matter what and it doesn't matter how bad the reasons are she's right because she's right? I feel like Ari is just too good at town to push me in such a bad faith way?
No matter what happens, I'll be right there with you.
In post 463, Ausuka wrote:i mean maybe I'm biased or something but what am I supposed to do with that? Ari is convinced I'm scum no matter what and it doesn't matter how bad the reasons are she's right because she's right? I feel like Ari is just too good at town to push me in such a bad faith way?
i get that it's frustrating especially since she won't really go into the read, but, idk. try to talk through her about her reasoning for it.
i don't think being good as town necessitates being 100% right all the time on day 1 especially not on an early read. i think her approach is way more likely to come from town that is legitimately tunneled
In post 456, scamper wrote:i think meg is, like, wildly incorrect but it might be townie
same
i think this read is so bad that it almost certainly comes from incompetence rather than malice.
its just so wildly off base lol
so on another note: can u talk to me a bit about ausuka? do u have reasons to scumread her other than not believing the claim and associations with dats?
I wouldn't expect her to be right 100% of the time; scumreading me alone is ok. I thought her original push on me was fine. But like, I think this latest push she's been making seems less likely to be a genuine thought process? As I've already said I think Ari is town here at least half the time because d1 reads are just like that, and I've had people like vedith push me this way before, but I wouldn't really expect it to come from town ari and I don't think this kind of playstyle is something scum Ari would necessarily shy away from? Like I know you said she wouldn't want to draw attention to her but she's admitted that she does draw attention to herself as scum, which to me makes sense because otherwise her scumgame would be pretty easy to tell apart from her town game and she claims to be a god-tier scum player
If it was a newer player doing this I would be more inclined to agree that it's tunneled town but idk
I know you've already spent a lot of time talking to me about this but if it's ok, why exactly do you think this approach is more likely to come from tunneled town? Like I think it's reasonably likely to come from scum Ari mostly because she would probably have confidence she wouldn't be eliminated?
No matter what happens, I'll be right there with you.
i had been kind of intending to dissuade you of the read before moving to other topics but we can instead just do that. i want to talk about any of datisi/donempire/coral/galron, since these are people i am currently not townreading
If other people really think what Ari is doing doesn't count as a push I am willing to listen.
I think she is trying to make me look like mafia and get me eliminated, if not today then tomorrow. That is a push to me. I think that is rather obvious.
No matter what happens, I'll be right there with you.
In post 319, Datisi wrote:when someone is correctly scumreading me, the thing i love to do is just continuously ask them what feels off and what do they not like about it and etc etc, and when they give a response continue arguing why they're Wrong, Actually
I didn't continue arguing why he was Wrong, Actually, though, so how does it fit? It was intentional though, I wanted to see how he would respond to that tone. I liked the response, because he didn't feel a need to overjustify himself and directly respond to every question I asked in order to win the argument. The way that he simply restated his point with a little more clarity felt like a response from town who is still trying to sort things out
In post 196, Donempire wrote:Remember how i said we needed someone on L-1? The one being wagoned is a factor in contributing to discussion, but so is everyone else on the wagon. Once the wagon disperses, there will be many posts to retroactively read , at least 4 vote posts for example. That way with a simple shitwagon in rvs you end up forcing 5 people to participate! You end up with someone who is a hard read by most of the town, lots of posts to investigate, maybe a claim.
Now that i said this, lolwagoning scamper probably wont have the same effect. But i can still make a solid case against scamper, and you can read my case, agree with me and bandwagon scamper. We receive the benefits i mentioned without any drawbacks!
So, i havent made my case yet, and i wont until i wake up, but the sooner everyone wagons scamper, the faster this game will run
You want an e-1 wagon on scamper because you want to analyze the wagon even though you can make a case? That doesn't sound pro town.
This push on done feels kind of surface level? Like it seems pretty fabricated and like an easy push to make here, because although I don't think there's much scum motivation for what Done is doing it is weird.
In post 213, Galron wrote:The treatment of the Miller claim by xayah and auska sounds townie. I don't see an issue
can you elaborate on this?
xayah's reaction to the claim wasn't over the top and they rightfully questioned it. Other than the thing about ausuka overreacting to it they did fine and even that seemed to be a failure of memory. ausuka's push back was warranted and sounded genuine.
I don't really know how to explain why this pings me? I guess it feels a bit TMI. Like, it feels like he's writing it off as TvT without digging into it that much, if that makes sense.
No matter what happens, I'll be right there with you.
