Mini Normal 2276: Around the World - Game Over!

[Gamma Emerald]

@johnnyfarrar

you should probably use the V/LA function in the user control panel next time there's an emergency

[Gamma Emerald]

While this was a long time ago my instinct is that Unabombah's level of experience back then was similar to Corwinoid now

I kinda wanna say una was more capable than corwin probably is

[Gamma Emerald]

what was his townplay like back then
Crescent's picture of corwin's abilities are based on a towngame so that should be a point of comparison

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
atp I think Crescent is town and she was just tunneling/tunneled on me there

[Gamma Emerald]

Datisi is towm

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like that Datisi read by Alex is a bit off but I do think the vote hopping specifically is a fair call out

[Gamma Emerald]

I hope there are 2 ascetic millers in the game

That would be basically mini 1838 on crack

[Gamma Emerald]

Bells hasn't even posted in 29 hours so that's a thing.

Speaking of role interactions though, my last game had a town power role that could effectively break other town power roles through interaction conflicts.

He could kidnap someone into a PT for 24 hours to interrogate them, then decided if he wanted to kill them or let them return to the game. He targeted the guy who gave pineapples to everyone who targeted him, but his role didn't get a pineapple because of the whole kidnapping thing.

The pineapple giver basically spent 4 days screaming about that pineapple that the other guy was insistent he never received.

"Kekeke".

Yeah that jailer role has basically never appeared here. It’s appeared on my homesite tho lol
srsly where tf did you play before?

[Gamma Emerald]

I hosted that game. As far as I know that role had never appeared there before. It was a funky design and scum kept stacking misplay after misplay. They had a single unblockable EK that two of their three players could use, had two perfect opportunities to use it, and never did.

Town also had a super gimped doctor who claimed a flavor that was on scum's safelist day 1 as town vanilla, and scum just.. Ignored it. They didn't scan him nor shoot him. They then night 2 blind shot at the one player this guy will always save if he's protection and got their kill blocked.

One of them made a bad scanner claim and then effectively wasted it, too.

Comedy of errors that team.

Also, Gamefaqs. They've done a fantastic job at running all female members of the community off. Women have to work much harder to get anything done, and are often spited for actually putting that work in. In that last Kingmaker game, I had an early scum read on someone, and a newbie basically told me the equivalent of "shut up, the men are talking."

My homesite is the starmen.net forums. Way better community than GameFaqs.

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s a rather niche site for a niche fandom yeah

[Gamma Emerald]

We await Bella to claim role
until she will, the game stands still
Currently we are in a hole

decided to write an Octarian Haiku

[Gamma Emerald]

idk, I'm just glad to get the reference

[Gamma Emerald]

(expired on 2022-07-15 16:00:00)

[Gamma Emerald]

Holy fucking shit Fenrir, your skull is denser than a neutron star

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait I thought JF was a neighbor for some reason, never mind

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm really, really mad about everything right now. why, why, WHY do you not just CLAIM instead of REPLACING OUT?

and what on earth was that vig shot?

I'll be back when I'm less annoyed

At the very least she should have claimed pre-replacing out so we didn’t vote out a confirmable role!

[Gamma Emerald]

i was originally planning to blast freedom because confirmed non-vt

but i think i recall pooky making a mafia traitor + 3 townies hood before, plus i did some Research and i thought freedom was town

so i just went for the next person i thought was scum

in retrospect, it obviously would've been better if i'd saved it but lole

And who was this?

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually yeah, fuck it, probably is for the best rather than risking it on MyLo/LyLo

I'm VT

well shit

i can confirm that alex is vanilla (idk if he's a town one)

i was planning on claiming a guilty and seeing what he claims, but also i just woke up so rip

we doing the massclaim?

Oh

Also, VT

[Gamma Emerald]

ngl I think Ausuka accidentally spat fire with the “his role and Bella’s are town + scum counterparts”
I feel like his role would be designed to get a false clear from Voyeur via mailman action
Also think Ascetic makes sense to make it so the complex vig has someone scum it’d always work on given it’ll never kill the traitor

[Gamma Emerald]

Just the OP, OF COURSE, mastina is primary reviewer
She consistently passes the most wild BS setups

[Gamma Emerald]

Just checked*

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ve read enough review PTs/post-game balance autopsies to pick up the balancers view any non-killing action by a scum as a “clear” to a follower/voyeur
(Well actually I just remember that logic from one particular game but I HAVE seen the design philosophy elsewhere)

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: gamma

meh

someone convince me it's not gamma/marci i guess

How about the fact that leaves 2 fucking VTs when typically in my exp the minimum tends to range out at 4
Turn on your fucking brain asshole

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait Crescent flipped VT
Still, 3 VTs is below the 4 VT threshold I believe exists

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: gamma

meh

someone convince me it's not gamma/marci i guess

How about the fact that leaves 2 fucking VTs when typically in my exp the minimum tends to range out at 4
Turn on your fucking brain asshole

i have seen 13p games with 2 vt's.

Where

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah town power is like. heavily in that 3 players can be confirmed and Roden can confirmed the vts. And then literally nobody got confirmed in reality lmao

Also why would that ever even be considered a clear in a multitasking game that makes no sense

I’ve seen that mindset used in other multitasking games so it’s a real thing

[Gamma Emerald]

Idr the game link but there was a normal game I saw where a mafia fv in a multitasking game was included as a clear to iirc either a tracker or watcher
I recall mastina also having some involvement there

[Gamma Emerald]

What message did Ausuka send you Freedom?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m the maflia

[Gamma Emerald]

new hot take

alex/johnny?

I don’t think Johnny’s role is scum based on Corwin’s flip
I also don’t think he’s fake claiming

[Gamma Emerald]

volume clear is when you clear someone because they're posting too much for their scumrange

i'd be efforting much more if i were scum here lole

i think my issue here is that nobody instinctually makes sense as scum. like, johnny does, but like he doesn't strike me as a type of scum player to come up with the claim he did come up, yknow. unless he's scum with like, idk, ausuka or something. and i don't wanna think about that

I wanna say you might be breaking meta but I don’t think the person I’m basing my psych profile of this sort of play on (Koba) has ever called out effort level as a reason to TR them as scum

[Gamma Emerald]

marci

[Gamma Emerald]

I've seen scum!Datisi a couple times now and this isn't it. If you don't have much of an opinion on him then he's very likely town; he's generally high activity as scum and working hard to make people want to keep him around and empathize with him.

eh maybe he's town i dunno. i think scum datisi would have more wall-y posts

look

do you think i make these kills at night

wake up sheeple

StD was scripted because he revealed he was PR
Idk what motivated the Roden kill

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma, who is scum?

My best guess atm is Ausuka/Marci

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok fuck it we need wagons and I like this

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I *really* don't like his progression on me - the focus on the me/bella read was super weird. he used it to shade us both, saying that one of us must be scum because we were 'buddying' each other. i haven't heard any sort of convincing reasoning as to why this might be and it seems like a massive stretch of a read, but one that would be quite useful to scum Gamma. it's similar to what he did pushing both crescent and shoshin early game.

I also think he's deliberately excusing this behaviour which advances scum wincon using self-meta. He brings up in 1772 that as scum he wouldn't use fence-sitting because it's against his meta. He also brought this up earlier in 574; he's clearly very aware of his 'scum meta' and I think is intentionally breaking it and then telling everyone he should be townread for that.

I still think Marci is town here but I’m not interested in fighting basically the entire player list so instead you clowns can do whatever and I’ll say I told you so tomorrow

This post pings me too

that's l2 probably idk

I could explain the reason for that post you quoted but I also did so much earlier and idc to repeat myself rn

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Ausuka
Something just clicked for me, I’m 100% on this read. Not that I expect to get him voted out but fuck it, legacy vote.

[Gamma Emerald]

There’s a particular reason I have strong feelings on this setup but I can’t really explain in a way that’d make sense. Otherwise, I am mostly just taking a stand because I feel like person-who-will-remain-unnamed probably has had historically good criticism of mastina setups but it’s never sank in for anyone because he’s the one saying it. Hopefully my voice while enact some recognition that mastina sucks at making normal games feel “normal”.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma, what's your case on Ausuka? And why do you think Johnny's alignment is related to Corwin's flip?

I think Ausuka has been buddying not one but two townies: Bella and Datisi. I realized the Datisi part more recently via checking VCs, and seeing Ausuka and Datisi side-by-side on a LOT of them. Now, in my experience, this is NOT something scum partners regularly execute; instead if one part of this pair is scum the other is just agency captured town.
As for Corwin’s flip impacting Johnny, I heavily doubt scum have both a Doctor and JK on the team. That would make the vigs near-useless. I have a baseline for this from a review of a large normal I designed so I can refer to that if needed. I also think his role has to exist since otherwise some other scum role had to have interfered with STD’s shot.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think Ausuka is scum. Or rather, only way I think Ausuka can be scum is if they're a mafia mailman and lied about the miller part, or it's Ausuka/Freedom. Which, either way, GG? Regardless of what Ausuka's claimed though I feel like their entire play up until now has been crazy pro-town and it's so hard to fake a lot of that content IMO.

How has his play been "crazy pro-town"?
Also I accused Ausuka over Datisi because I had previous thought Ausuka was possibly buddying Bella. So given one charge of buddying or two, I'm gonna suspect the person with 2.

[Gamma Emerald]

It's hard to explain in a way that effectively conveys the confidence in it but multiple points make me feel that strongly.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma, what's your case on Ausuka? And why do you think Johnny's alignment is related to Corwin's flip?

I think Ausuka has been buddying not one but two townies: Bella and Datisi. I realized the Datisi part more recently via checking VCs, and seeing Ausuka and Datisi side-by-side on a LOT of them. Now, in my experience, this is NOT something scum partners regularly execute; instead if one part of this pair is scum the other is just agency captured town.
As for Corwin’s flip impacting Johnny, I heavily doubt scum have both a Doctor and JK on the team. That would make the vigs near-useless. I have a baseline for this from a review of a large normal I designed so I can refer to that if needed. I also think his role has to exist since otherwise some other scum role had to have interfered with STD’s shot.

so your evidence that ausuka is buddying datisi is that...they were voting together? and this makes ausuka scum?

i'm sorry, i just don't find this convincing at all

idk maybe it'll look less like buddying if I ISO then together but I kinda don't give a shit to rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

-_-
this honestly feels like you're mocking me, which like, fucking rude mate?

[Gamma Emerald]

-_-
this honestly feels like you're mocking me, which like, fucking rude mate?

hmm

echant is a loose cannon, maybe gain some fucking context!

you're using low-effort axioms rather than actually thinking about what alex is posting
it could be a bus, anything could be a fucking bus! actually think about whether THIS is a bus you numpty!

Holy fucking shit Fenrir, your skull is denser than a neutron star

How about the fact that leaves 2 fucking VTs when typically in my exp the minimum tends to range out at 4
Turn on your fucking brain asshole

hmm

You’re not this bad.
VOTE: Datisi

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
Scratch that I thought those were from a different game

[Gamma Emerald]

Still think you’re being bad by trying to read into

expletives

of all things

[Gamma Emerald]

?

is that a tilt vote? because i made no claims about alignments in that post for you to call me game-of-mafia-bad for

pedit: lmao

It’s

pretty obvious

you’re trying to imply I’m scummy for saying “fuck” a bunch.

[Gamma Emerald]

If that’s not the case then I genuinely apologize. I have had to field that sort of argument before and I greatly dislike it.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’d rather you report me for toxicity than make vague in-game overtures. My Kryptonite is figuring out whether such things are game-related or not.

[Gamma Emerald]

I also apologize to everyone I spoke poorly to at all in this game. I came in with a chip on my shoulder from Eurybia’s Curse and it has only grown and grown over the course of this game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Np Gamma

I Keep not clicking on this thread because it requires effort. My sincerest apologies everyone.

BIG MOOD

[Gamma Emerald]

Where is Marci???

[Gamma Emerald]

marci do u still think im scum

[Gamma Emerald]

when did i ever say i thought u were scum

ur literally voteparkibf me??

[Gamma Emerald]

i also kind of think datisi's role is towny but like

Trying to ignore setup spec because I feel like trying to pay any attention to the roles has a decent chance of biting us in the ass

His role as claimed has a net zero effect on the setup in practice

[Gamma Emerald]

did she say you're scum THO???

If she doesn’t think that she should remove her vote

[Gamma Emerald]

freedom, are you an alt?

Freedom is a RH9 alt

[Gamma Emerald]

sorry i'm shitposting i'm p sure she called you scum at some point

Well I don’t feel like she should be currently, and this current evasive behavior makes me think she knows this but doesn’t want to acknowledge

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: marci
I have little confidence she’s scum but she’s not really coming off town anymore and if she’s town I want that known in 6p.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: marci
I have little confidence she’s scum but she’s not really coming off town anymore and if she’s town I want that known in 6p.

I get this, but do you have higher confidence in someone else being scum?

Not really
I have ideas in mind but without being certain about marci’s alignment I can’t really make anything tangible

[Gamma Emerald]

It is one of many possibilities

I don't know rh9 meta that well tbf but from what I've seen I definitely feel like he is capable of more as town? Idk.

I'll say rh9's difficulties when widely TR are historically tangible

[Gamma Emerald]

A few years ago I played a scumgame where the last mafia alive had a Simple modifier and because of that they couldn't nightkill any PRs. I wonder if it would be the same for Johnny

was it a normal? if not idk if that would be allowed in a normal

[Gamma Emerald]

I was scumreading Shoshin for a time
Crescent might have been as well, I think she was

[Gamma Emerald]

vote count 3.07

with 8 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-07-25 03:00:00).

yeet

Freedom[2]:

Datisi, Ausuka

JohnnyFarrar[2]:

Scamper, Alexcellent

Gamma Emerald[1]:

marcistar

marcistar[1]:

Gamma Emerald

not voting [2]:

JohnnyFarrar, Freedom

v interesting gamestate

[Gamma Emerald]

shoshins town

vrej

[Gamma Emerald]

As for my own defense (if you wanna call it that) I can say I've been steadily getting busier over the past week or so and I'm genuinely sorry I can't dedicate as much time as I did d1.

My role, claimed as it is, has very little function at this point, unless you feel like having me test the VTs, so if we wanna vote me off I can see that being the play. I don't wanna get to Elo only for my play to be the reason town loses.

Marci is getting a huge botd from Aussie and Alex here, just blasting a Datisi scumread outta nowhere, and I don't understand their patience there?

Fully off an Alex vote. Won't do it. I follow the logic too much. My readslist is his reads list

Scamper is thinking outside the box, questioning the right reads and just being townie in general. I'd bet the game on Scamper town

Ausuka's shining beacon of towniness dimmed a little, but that was probably because of illness. I don't see any reason to vote there

Gamma I still think makes sense as scum based on that first wagon. Would be willing to vote but i'm also a sucker for genuine apologies and I like Gamma for coming clean about their attitude coming outta that last game. Idk. I'm a waffle.

Freedom is really... stale? Like I was ready to come in here and be like claimed townies that are townread sometimes lose their will to play, but then he started posting and it's all just... there? I'm underwhelmed. There's no smoking gun here but I could see scum not wanting to fuck with anything if our top wagons are off base rn

Datisi seems tired. I don't disagree with Marci here, I waz really feeling scum!Dats in my gut. Is it possible that they're taking credit for a vig that's not theirs? Could STD have killed Crez?

Marci seems like they're rolling dice to form their reads. I can't imagine why scum

would

do that, tho. It's just suboptimal play from both sides, not really sure how to proceed.

If there's not a scum between Dats, Marci and Freedom I'll be surprised. I think Dats and Marci as partners would be really fun.

PEdit - o hi Aus

I don’t like how half of Johnny’s “town reads” have a qualifier or dampening factor

[Gamma Emerald]

@gamma, why were you townreading marci before and why do you not read her as such right now

I felt like her play/positioning early on was like mine in Eurybia's Curse
atp I just can't rlly stomach her just doing nothing to actually look town

[Gamma Emerald]

wdym im not just memeing i have reasons its just so much to type u should tots vote datisi tho..

do you think being lazy is going to change anyone's opinion of you atp?

[Gamma Emerald]

marci, if you're correct on datisi, and you opt not to write anything about it, and we ignore your read in MeLo, how would that make you feel?

[Gamma Emerald]

marci, if you're correct on datisi, and you opt not to write anything about it, and we ignore your read in MeLo, how would that make you feel?

what do u want me to feel?

even when i do give reads ppl ignore it anyways LOL i dont want heavy sway in the game like that

I want you to feel like you're helping us solve
your POV is extremely murky to the point that if you flip town your takes give us nothing to work with

[Gamma Emerald]

I can't really tell if I would agree w your Datisi read if you don't provide reasons
beyond that you have like next to no takes aside from datisi!scum that I can remember

[Gamma Emerald]

@scamper not everyone seems the same things from this game
Some play to win, some play for fun, some play to win because winning is fun, and some play for something else, like me who seems the social connection this game and site provides.

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah uh, a part of the reason why i was playing sorta scummily the whole game was because i was counting on the fact i can confirm myself

first off this is kinda stinky

I have played games as a confirmable role more fast-and-loose with the expectation that I had a panic button
So on paper Datisi has a point but idk if his play matches what he’s saying, since when I played this sort of game before I basically just spat my raw takes relentlessly without caring about whether it would get called inconsistent/opportunistic/etc.
basically, this is not a bad point but a deeper dive into Datisi’s play is recommended

[Gamma Emerald]

me trying to decide if i should continue after reading that

i'm trying to be helpful...

@scamper not everyone seems the same things from this game
Some play to win, some play for fun, some play to win because winning is fun, and some play for something else, like me who seems the social connection this game and site provides.

I'm not sure what your point is, exactly. I'm not talking about motivation for playing the game, I'm talking about the basis by which the game is played, which is communicating thoughts to one another

Maybe Marci plays to feel smart, is my point.

[Gamma Emerald]

More just gut but feels more likely to be town that's thrown in the towel rather than scum
But idk, I don't have any real confidence here

Who do u think is scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

i mean, the shot at alex was a misplay and if that decides the game do be it

but otherwise, i don't even really know what to do to appear townie because this game is just going in circles and i don't have anything to actually do? if you need me to go in depth about some of my older reads or actions i can do that, otherwise i'm at a loss bc my opinion on this game isn't gonna change until the game itself changes

oogh

[Gamma Emerald]

isnt that cos i have him pocketed tho...

Really though, I guess I should let Datisi defend himself instead of doing it for him so I'm not going to talk at length about it but like... While it's not impossible you're right I'm not seeing it right now? I mean, it's even possible he's just scum and is just trying to adopt an attitude that is easy for scum to fake and theoretically pro town but I don't see the pocket thing

-_-

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:

[Gamma Emerald]

I have a theory
what if it's Alex and Datisi

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually why did I say I thought it could be Alex+Datisi, Alex actually felt town recently
(I know why, it’s that Datisi claiming the Alex target feels like a possible buddy cover move)

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm still happy to vote between Johnny/Freedom/Marci but idk, I'd be very surprised if scum somehow isn't in there.
Very strongly town on Aus/Datisi/Scamper. Gamma is somewhere in the middle

Eh actually this feels concerning
What puts me in the middle 4 u?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: freedom
Ausuka might have a good point

[Gamma Emerald]

I had weird motives for my outrage at the perceived setup, that persist regardless of the veracity of anyone’s claim. Basically, there’s another player who commonly posts the type of stuff I posted here but almost exclusively as scum, so idk how to express my disdain except in a way that probably doesn’t read well. I felt like I had to express it tho because it’s become increasingly clear nothing is getting thru when that other player makes his comments.

[Gamma Emerald]

i love how marci can put out a wall that's full of information that's factually untrue and that makes no sense from what would be her town!pov, and y'all go "yeah ok sure marci can be town"

time to pocket ausuka i guess



y-1

pedit: removed the freedom vote lole

intent

What about it is untrue?

[Gamma Emerald]

I do think there are valid criticisms tho like the gamma/Marci solve being extremely easy

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma

friend

buddy

pal

am i sticking to my gamma/marci solve? am i refusing to entertain anything else? do i even HOLD that solve right now???

Not what I’m saying, I’m saying when that was your solve it felt like you weren’t actually solving and you just picked the two least townread slots in the game to push together with zero thought about partner equity
Regardless of what your solve is now, that feeling remains.

[Gamma Emerald]

How were my reasons nonsense? Maybe you didn’t relate to them but you should at least know enough about me by now to know how I process scenarios.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m sorry did I give “zero explanation” or “nonsense reasons” for my marci TR? Those two statements feel at odds.

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

this is a recent towngame if u care

@gamma do you remember anything of this game? I skipped around the ISO but ain't no way I'm reading a 500 post ISO

Yes
I feel like Marci might be a little similar across that game and this one
More notably, her position feels like the one I was in that game. So I’m fairly certain she’s town here.

This might be my most clear indication of how I was translating the events of Eurybia’s Curse into my marci read this game, but I definitely explained it so “no explanation” is a blatant untruth by Datisi. And I feel like Datisi has to have seen me use this sort of “extrapolate events from game A to read game B, even if there’s no meta thru-line of any particular player”. As a result calling my reasoning “nonsense” and saying it was scummy feels off-color, a personal disagreement on the relevance of my anecdotal meta does not make it immediately nonsense.
Actually he DEFINITELY saw me use the anecdotal meta thing recently, unless he doesn’t actually read the games he mods.

[Gamma Emerald]

It feels kinda shite to go “I don’t do second-hand meta” to write off my read and then say my defense has partner equity, when you haven’t rlly put in the actual effort to parse my defense
I can’t actually recall Datisi ever directly engaging my marci TR in fact

[Gamma Emerald]

I wasn’t rlly saying she felt similar to another game
I was more trying to highlight the anecdotal meta portion. If you had asked “why do you feel like marci’s situation matches yours from that game?” I would have actually responded “it feels like an unrealistic initial expectation was put in place for her gamestart behavior and she’s in an unrecoverable hole as a result of it” which would have been an assessment of

her situation in this game

and more parsable. So maybe try to actually tell when I’m presenting anecdotal meta, because that (almost) always has some tangible bearing in the current game, so even if the meta element is uninviting you could at least determine if the presented scenario in question makes sense on its own

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Freedom's the winning vote here

Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: datisi I will fight you

is this fr?

[Gamma Emerald]

good morning scumfucks, i am awake

is it hammer time?

is it hammer time?

this is a serious question btw

i see scamper asked for a minute but it's been 5 hours so

yeah ok, worst case scenario i'll hammer after work

back to lurking then, see ya

These posts do feel rather wooden

[Gamma Emerald]

i re-evaluated and concluded Marcistar is scum with Johnny

Why Johnny? I think Johnny is the one partner that makes no sense for Marci. In fact, I would go so far as to call him almost conftown. I don’t think any scum team with Johnny on it makes that kill except Johnny/scamper exactly.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think we should eliminate anyone today, to be serious for a moment.

I don't think we have anyone who really approaches clear status.

Here’s why the Datisi kill baffles me and makes me think Johnny has to be town if scamper is: scamper is the closest we have to a UTR. So that would be a) a priority kill and b) a priority protect. So if Johnny is scum and scamper is town, scamper should have died instead.

[Gamma Emerald]

Because more people TR Datisi?

[Gamma Emerald]

i re-evaluated and concluded Marcistar is scum with Johnny

Why Johnny? I think Johnny is the one partner that makes no sense for Marci. In fact, I would go so far as to call him almost conftown. I don’t think any scum team with Johnny on it makes that kill except Johnny/scamper exactly.

why not? if scum Johnny kills the most obvtown vt he's going to have to answer to why he didn't make that protect

ehhh

[Gamma Emerald]

You’re probably right, I just get a weird vibe from the situation

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you mean "you're probably right that you can't change my mind, the situation would be too weird" or "you're probably right that Johnny could be scum but i would get weird vibes from it" or something else

The latter

[Gamma Emerald]

now I feel stupid ;-;

[Gamma Emerald]

Personally I tend to assume scum bus and vote each other habitually

Why???

[Gamma Emerald]

>:/

[Gamma Emerald]

highly townread townleader ausuka has survived all game and yall dont have a double take?!?!?! CLOWNS

Oh I'm questioning things about that already
the targeting of Alex with the mailman has me hella raising eyebrows
plus, as ascetic, he's a free kill even outside of the fact the doc is simple

[Gamma Emerald]

My mailman message to Alex was basically

I think scamper has been overlooked too much because of their towny d1 and I want you to reread them but it's not like a hard scumread and if you decide they're too towny to elim that's fine

I agree JF is unlikely to be a wolf,I think Marci is a fantastic elimination for tomorrow

r u fr?

[Gamma Emerald]

i re-evaluated and concluded Marcistar is scum with Johnny

i re-evaluated and concluded Marcistar is scum with Johnny

Why Johnny? I think Johnny is the one partner that makes no sense for Marci. In fact, I would go so far as to call him almost conftown. I don’t think any scum team with Johnny on it makes that kill except Johnny/scamper exactly.

I don't think we should eliminate anyone today, to be serious for a moment.

I don't think we have anyone who really approaches clear status.

Here’s why the Datisi kill baffles me and makes me think Johnny has to be town if scamper is: scamper is the closest we have to a UTR. So that would be a) a priority kill and b) a priority protect. So if Johnny is scum and scamper is town, scamper should have died instead.

i re-evaluated and concluded Marcistar is scum with Johnny

Why Johnny? I think Johnny is the one partner that makes no sense for Marci. In fact, I would go so far as to call him almost conftown. I don’t think any scum team with Johnny on it makes that kill except Johnny/scamper exactly.

why not? if scum Johnny kills the most obvtown vt he's going to have to answer to why he didn't make that protect

i re-evaluated and concluded Marcistar is scum with Johnny

Why Johnny? I think Johnny is the one partner that makes no sense for Marci. In fact, I would go so far as to call him almost conftown. I don’t think any scum team with Johnny on it makes that kill except Johnny/scamper exactly.

why not? if scum Johnny kills the most obvtown vt he's going to have to answer to why he didn't make that protect

ehhh

shrug, i probably can't change your mind if you believe that johnny is never scum from that

You’re probably right, I just get a weird vibe from the situation

Do you mean "you're probably right that you can't change my mind, the situation would be too weird" or "you're probably right that Johnny could be scum but i would get weird vibes from it" or something else

Do you mean "you're probably right that you can't change my mind, the situation would be too weird" or "you're probably right that Johnny could be scum but i would get weird vibes from it" or something else

The latter

now I feel stupid ;-;

like what the ACTUAL FUCK bro?

[Gamma Emerald]

why the hell did you debate that with me just to reverse course, just to make me feel bad?

[Gamma Emerald]

I still think your reasoning was wrong I just think jf is probtown anyway

[Gamma Emerald]

I still think your reasoning was wrong I just think jf is probtown anyway

why, tho

I'm backing this cos if not for my reasons, then wtf for?

[Gamma Emerald]

I will try to avoid purely grudge voting but this whole reads flip flop you've done today feels wack as hell

[Gamma Emerald]

the thing about these gamestates is that that a lot of the time its to townies that get paranoid and go at each others throats while mafia chills in the background and waits for them to mess up and gamma/JF kind of fits that model perfectly right now

how tf do I fit that model???

[Gamma Emerald]

idk who you are but you clearly have a shit readrate on me on your main

[Gamma Emerald]

Like does no one else think it's weird how Marci plays up how "stupid" she is (she's not), comes into the day having not scumread me since like d1

And then is pretty much instantly confident enough to vote me in elo

Like that rings massive red Alarm bells

this did register for me on some level

[Gamma Emerald]

"ausuka is scum but I didn't share that read because ausuka didn't ask me to"

Yeah ok

yeah that’s rather ehhh

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m waiting for Johnny to post stuff before voting at all

[Gamma Emerald]

Marci just blurts out reads for no reason and gets real shook real often and I can't believe we let her live to Elo

To be fair, I don't think I would want anyone we eliminated in elo either

Bella would’ve been nice for her role

[Gamma Emerald]

oh please

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly no
Your complete lack of thought process this game makes it really hard to trust you, and it’s not even similar to Eurybia’s Curse because there your reads were nonexistent, here you have reads but they’re baseless 90% of the time

[Gamma Emerald]

Then why has it been like pulling teeth to get you to explain any?

[Gamma Emerald]

Then why has it been like pulling teeth to get you to explain any?

im just built diff 100%

nah i told u guys u can just ask but nobody cares to..

We shouldn’t have to
If u cared for us to follow ur reads there should be explanations for them

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah that’s not a town mindset.
VOTE: marcistar
If this is a loss, gg scum

[Gamma Emerald]

scamper’s towngame?

[Gamma Emerald]

Scamper is good as town

If they are town they think it's you and Johnny and I want to give them a chance

A chance for what?

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
I’m spooked now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Do u think it’s marci + johnny?

[Gamma Emerald]

to review the game and make their case etc like they said they were going to

Also scamper is online apparently so obligatory not scum with scamper

online but not posting

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbf I think it’s marci + johnny

[Gamma Emerald]

That's fair and that is certainly a possibility

I think Johnny has felt like town at points and a lot of his positions are inconvenient, eg if he's scum he tried to set up Alex as a miselim and then killed him

However scamper has played an excellent game and looked town throughout so I certainly understand where you're coming from, I would be townreading them independently

I think unfortunately a lot of my thoughts about scamper revolve around their identity and therefore there's only so much I can talk about. I know it's unfair for them too because they can't refute what I'm thinking. But like I can't just not consider how it factors into my reads if I want to play to my win condition.

can u give a hint or smth about who scamper is?

[Gamma Emerald]

Have I played with them before?

[Gamma Emerald]

what do u make of my johnny tr from yday scamper?

[Gamma Emerald]

OK Gamma I was going through your games to see if I could find an example of you in elo as town and uh, you post in a lot of topics and do not appear to live to elo that often

Would you mind linking me to some?

I'll try but I can't recall any towngames I was in ELo for except for one that I repped into

[Gamma Emerald]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=67979
this probably counts actually

[Gamma Emerald]

viewtopic.php?p=8638908#p8638908
it was MeLo but close enough
also I realize that a) these are v old and probably not indicative of my way of play now and b) one link per post isn't the most helpful
pls lmk if I should switch my search direction and/or put the rest in one post

[Gamma Emerald]

actually scratch that last one I thought 4 were alive in the last VC

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm sure I can find them but thanks to my wiki being in massive disrepair I have to use egosearch

[Gamma Emerald]

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=87498
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=84310
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=83986

these are all the "modern" games I could find where I was in ELo/MeLo as town
I probably end up in ELo as scum substantially more often

[Gamma Emerald]

Ftr I feel like Ausuka has been pretty towny recently, and given the chance scamper + johnny had to just scoop up the hammer, that seems improbable meaning marci is basically assured scum for me

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: marcistar
I don’t feel like there’s a good reason to put this off.

[Gamma Emerald]

I already feel like it’s confirmed between you two from scamper’s actions earlier

[Gamma Emerald]

The only thing I think might be worth hashing out is what’s gonna happen tomorrow
As I see it the scum team is either Marci/scamper or Marci/Johnny
I think which team it is might dictate the kill tonight

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess part of me is wondering like

Is there a reason you seem to think I'm towny now? I don't think I'm doing anything massively different to what I was doing in previous days? Like, I was expecting you to just ~say more things~ in this ELO in general I suppose, I was expecting I'd have to like try and convince you not to vote me

Pedit: I mean I'd like the chance to review and weigh the evidence for myself knowing that gamma/Johnny isn't a possibility if we got to that point, I guess

Your takes in ELo seem sensible, I don’t agree with all of them but they all seem like fake takes to have in your position
It could be trivial to fake but why fake it as scum even?

[Gamma Emerald]

wasn't me

[Gamma Emerald]

ftr if marci is scum I'm gonna have massive beef with whoever is her partner and twilight trolling

[Gamma Emerald]

why the fuck did you not just hammer when ausuka and marci crossed

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi I reviewed this game.

WE KNOW!

[Gamma Emerald]

sorry that's mean
I just feel like there needs to be some realization that your idea of normal doesn't rlly mesh with what most players actually think is normal

[Gamma Emerald]

My issue is not whether it was balanced
The design philosophy on that game feels nonexistent

[Gamma Emerald]

There’s all these random tools but no thru-line for a lot of it

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah I think a problem with expecting people to put together certain balance points is that roles dying out early muddles their possible effects on the balance

[Gamma Emerald]

past a certain point I find it very hard to be accommodating for laziness/lack of WIM

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah I think my main lesson from scamper coming up scum is to never ever allow a shitpush on me to go unpunished

[Gamma Emerald]

Cool