Large Normal 240: Baileyposting [game over]

[Greeting]

Greetings!

Hello Everyone.

No witty entrance post?

Enchant

confscum.

VOTE: Enchant

[Greeting]

Greetings!

Hello Everyone.

No witty entrance post?

Enchant

confscum.

VOTE: Enchant

Reading more carefully, you should be able to figure out that was a witty entrance post.

VOTE: Greeting

I'm not seeing it.

[Greeting]

Enchant was pretty obviously mocking the thing going on between Vivax and Owen. It's clear enough even I figured out the intent

Thanks. I could continue arguing about the witty part, but there's no point in me doing so.

[Greeting]

Can't read too much into things yet.
FancyPants only posted once.
MegAzumaril has a point. Second line of my post could imply a joke. Post was explained as gut-based already though.
Greeting calls Enchant's second post their entry post.
Patersons objection seems like the kind of entry point I'd make as scum when seeing a town accusing another town while making an easy to spot mistake.

Me reading too much into this post: This post seems to be coming from a town player.

In my last game we had someone summarising everything going in the game too and they were town. So yeah, I agree.

[Greeting]

can we not post a VC for every single vote please... if you do it, please just throw it in a spoiler, but spamming "unnoficial" VCs for every single vote is not appreciated... you literally posted 3 on 1 page... and no one changed votes in the span of you posting them

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

This feels like something scum could easily feign annoyance over for the sake of an early vote to look busy.

This doesn't change the fact that it's both an easy way to produce content and unnecessary/annoying. Datisi isn't a lousy mod in my experience and can handle vote counts on his own easily.

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

[Greeting]

@Greeting/Bugspray, do you generally find LAMIST posts to be scum aligned?

I'm not entirely sure where you're coming from with this question.

If it's in the context of my most recent vote, I wouldn't call what

Fredrick A Campbell

is doing LAMIST. I'm voting him because he was posting distracting/unnecessary content instead of scumhunting and that's an anti-town action. And if he's town, I’m fine pressuring him into changing his behavior.

If it's just a general question, I'd say that the LAMIST tell gets more reliable with meta. In my eyes, it has some merit when it comes to experienced players who should know better than just to look good. I know only about a half of the playerlist, including myself (although a gut feeling tells me that

Prince of Paterson

is an alt of somebody I know), and all of these folks know how to play the game in general, so if they're doing nothing and flying under the radar, this tell should be looked into. It's just Day 1 and page 4 though, and I think not enough has happened in general to come after someone for not enough contribution that isn't painfully obvious (as it is in

Fredrick A Campbell

's case).

[Greeting]

My early TRs are:

Andante

Vivax

Enchant

Crescent

Order is meaningless.

Rest is kinda ???,

geraintm

's post 88 kinda gave me a bad vibe, but I'm not giving out a scumread over one post only.

[Greeting]

Maybe if

geraintm

is scum, then so is

MegAzumarill

and 117 was faked as a response to a likely true concern (which both a town and scum player could have). Admittedly though, this could also be scum

Meg

trying to pocket

geraintm

.

Meg

is playing differently to what I remember, both as scum and town too.

This is a mental note to myself to come back to sort these two later in the game.

[Greeting]

Does anyone else agree with Vivax's interpretation? This is a strange hill for him to choose to die on. I think it's a little towny to do so, though. Town often have a lot of pride in their own view of things.

Vivax

claims that

UNOwen

's ISO is as if he's the only player in the game (151), though having looked into

Vivax

's ISO, I can see that he's overly focused on

UNOwen

as well.

I am townreading

Vivax

for tone, this thing going on between them is NAI imo. 119 suggests it's something coming from a past game.

UNOwen

is... *shrugs*. The kind of player to policy eliminate Day 1 if we cannot find someone scummy in the next 12 days.

[Greeting]

This is an ISO read of someone who wanted to have a fun game but is disappointed to have drawn scum.

Does

MegAzumarill

in your opinion not like rolling scum?

[Greeting]

I am townreading

Vivax

for tone, this thing going on between them is NAI imo. 119 suggests it's something coming from a past game.

Could you expand on what you think is going on between me and Vivax?

I couldn't, because I don't know. It sounds like a grudge from a past game to me.

[Greeting]

This (bugspray) reeks heavily of a not_mafia alt.

And whose alt are you? You seem knowledgeable about the site for someone who joined May 29, 2022.

[Greeting]

Me being on the

Fredrick A Campbell

wagon was about pressure and it worked so I am removing myself from it. This doesn't seem like a very scummy slot.

The more

Andante

gets annoyed, the more I am starting to suspect her. But I still believe it's genuine annoyance.

Let's go with this.

VOTE: MegAzumarill

[Greeting]

@Greeting

I don't use alts and I played this game for a very long time elsewhere with extraordinarily active players.

But… it’s irrelevant whether you’ve played this game for long or short on other sites. The point I was making regarded your familiarity with this site, and specifically Not_Mafia, which isn’t something I expected from someone who has been here for so short.

[Greeting]

@Greeting

I don't use alts and I played this game for a very long time elsewhere with extraordinarily active players.

But… it’s irrelevant whether you’ve played this game for long or short on other sites. The point I was making regarded your familiarity with this site, and specifically Not_Mafia, which isn’t something I expected from someone who has been here for so short.

And you‘re asking me about not_mafia in a game he‘s not in, which implies you know something that I don‘t.
Can we just stick to try and having a normal game of mafia?

If you say that you don't know what I'm implying and then why did you make post 208 in which you compared the playstyle of

bugspray

to Not_Mafia and where do you know Not_Mafia's playstyle from if not here?

[Greeting]

The Fred and Azumaril wagons are bad, everyone should vote Malcom.

I see no difference between his behaviour (

Malcolm

's) in this game and in Mini Normal 2267, which I hosted. He was town in the latter. I'll stick with the

Meg

wagon.

[Greeting]

Greeting.... Another vote on Meg.. Another player that provides no reason for voting Meg. #177 seems like it's setting up a bad pretext to vote them, and the vote itself just comes out of nowhere.

It's a bad ISO. I also have a gut feeling that something's not quite right here. I have played with

Meg

many times before and they've been more aggressive and daring.

And sure,

Pooky

's ISO looks bad for someone who doesn't know him well, but that's just

Pooky

and in his case I think it's NAI.

[Greeting]

FancyPants* - lurk idk
Vivax - troll town
MalcolmTucker - prob maf
Greeting - idk always failed at reading
Firebringer - hot null would't care to vote
Fredrick A Campbell - can afford to die
Dwlee99* - lurk
Crescent - eh idk
Lowell - prob town
bugspray - always failed at reading
PookyTheMagicalBear - always mafia
geraintm - prob maf
UNOwen - idk i started yawning at this guy, pretend that's there's something funny drawn at next 3 persons and i call it a day, too much effort for me
Prince of Paterson
Andante
MegAzumarill

VOTE: Enchant
When has Enchant ever made a reads list

I forgot you were even in this game.

[Greeting]

There are a lot of coasters in this game.

Prince of Paterson

,

Dwlee99

,

bugspray

,

UNOwen

all come to mind. And while going after one of them as a policy is tempting, I actually do think there's a decent chance of scum

MegAzumarill

. It's also an easy scumhunting stance to fake.

My vote will stay where it is until someone makes a more convincing case on someone else.

[Greeting]

Scum: MalcolmTucker (non-commital scum) /Bugspray (Lurking scum)/Geraintm(Newb-scum) /PookyTheMagicalBear(Experienced scum who's sad they rolled scum)


Maybe's: Firebringger/Dwlee99/Lowell

This is the post I use to gloat endgame.
Will defend these opinions to the death, come at me.

geraintm

is the scummiest of these four.

Pooky

is just being himself to be fair.

[Greeting]

On an unrelated game note, I've been cleared to return back to work effective Monday.

Did you have COVID-19?

[Greeting]

Scum: MalcolmTucker (non-commital scum) /Bugspray (Lurking scum)/Geraintm(Newb-scum) /PookyTheMagicalBear(Experienced scum who's sad they rolled scum)


Maybe's: Firebringger/Dwlee99/Lowell

This is the post I use to gloat endgame.
Will defend these opinions to the death, come at me.

geraintm

is the scummiest of these four.

Pooky

is just being himself to be fair.

I wonder why people.are.oicking me as scum.day 1s nowadays? But to call me newb scum is weird. And to say I am thr scummiest person in the game? Is anyone actually voting me to back up that claim? I wish people would so I remember who was trying to get me eliminated later

I said you were the scummiest of these four, not in the game.

[Greeting]

Vivax

, could you please summarise for me why you think

UNOwen

is scum?

[Greeting]

Vivax

, could you please summarise for me why you think

UNOwen

is scum?

It’s in my ISO, and I’m not sold that he’s scum. But I see that there’s resistance to treat him like any other player in the game and that bugs me. I’m known to preferentially attack so called primadonnas.

I have read your ISO and the reasoning is kinda murky to me. You have a lot of posts too.

I have also read his ISO and it doesn't stand out very much to me as scummy at all. More like null. The type of player I spoke of in 485. This assessment, however, doesn't make

UNOwen

a better Day 1 elimination than the other players I mentioned in there.

I am giving you a chance to change my mind and convince me to go with you, it's up to you if you want it or not.

[Greeting]

I am giving you a chance to change my mind and convince me to go with you, it's up to you if you want it or not.

Naughty point for you

Would it be better for town if I tunnelled my main scumread until death/endgame (whichever came first) and stubbornly claimed this is the only way forward?

[Greeting]

Will get to it when off work, but it’s more likely I don’t case Owen here. I just dislike it when mafia becomes a game of politics and I think he’s being a beneficiary of that so he can play subpar and get away with it.

Alright, well, I think I've made my opinion on that player very clear. Like, the thought of eliminating him makes me want to literally shrug because he's a coaster, and the chances of him being mafia are average at best.

[Greeting]

I am giving you a chance to change my mind and convince me to go with you, it's up to you if you want it or not.

Naughty point for you

Would it be better for town if I tunnelled my main scumread until death/endgame (whichever came first) and stubbornly claimed this is the only way forward?

No, but asking for permission to vote someone from another rpkayer to me always seems bad.
I don't like it

VOTE: meg

I’m not planning on voting for

UNOwen

, nor planning on getting permission to vote him. I do want to work with

Vivax

though, because he’s one of my strongest townreads at the moment.

Are you reading my posts carefully? Or do you just read a few sentences and then make an assumption of what I was doing and form opinions based on that? Because you’re consistently drifting away from everything I say. I don’t remember you being that clumsy in Mini Normal 2267.

[Greeting]

@

Vivax

, now that you mentioned

FancyPants

, I admit I didn't like the question to me in 86. Neither the question nor my answer to it did anything the progress the game, and so it's quite possible the whole interaction came about for the sake of

FancyPants

appearing to be active. It raised an eyebrow, and then I kinda forgot about this question ever appearing again.

As for

FancyPants

' later reasoning, the real question is: is it all fabricated or is it a genuine tunnelled townie? I think you're right, there's a decent chance this is scum. His push on

MalcolmTucker

stands out as bad. Although I could understand the perspective at first (just like I understand people who have never played with

Pooky

suspecting him), the need to drag this on is probably scum indicative.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Meg. Here's a good wagon.

Fancy and prince are also scum.

Since Meg hasn't answered still, the reason I'm asking about his opinion on the wagon is that I'd expect someone who had the reaction they had to the mini pileup on Fred would also show a bit of concern about scum being involved in the almost completely unexplained five vote wagon against himself. Responding to it by ignoring the votes and instead accusing FancyPants of tmi for calling it a bad wagon doesn't seem consistent. To me it looks like Meg couldn't tell whether the wagon was a bluff or not and didn't want to risk looking scummy by overreacting.

Hadn't really thought Meg was scummy previously, but this is actually fairly convincing reasoning. I'm okay with this, maybe Pooky is right after all.

VOTE: MegAzumarill

Scummy half-naked votes towards the end of the

Meg

wagon.

[Greeting]

There is definitely scum in {

Lowell

,

Prince of Paterson

,

MegAzumarill

,

geraintm

,

FancyPants

}. Perhaps even more than half of them are scum.

[Greeting]

There is definitely scum in {

Lowell

,

Prince of Paterson

,

MegAzumarill

,

geraintm

,

FancyPants

}. Perhaps even more than half of them are scum.

I think this is your second list now scum and me being thr only overlap and yet you aren't voting me....

That's another misrepresentation. Both you and

Meg

overlap. I am going to have to assume that you keep misrepresenting me on purpose. This is anti-town behavior that cannot just be explained by clumsiness anymore.

I am not, however, going to turn my full attention to you now when

Meg

is at E-2. This could be a ploy to divide the

Meg

wagon and save them from dying today.

Maybe if

geraintm

is scum, then so is

MegAzumarill

and 117 was faked as a response to a likely true concern (which both a town and scum player could have). Admittedly though, this could also be scum

Meg

trying to pocket

geraintm

.

Meg

is playing differently to what I remember, both as scum and town too.

This is a mental note to myself to come back to sort these two later in the game.

[Greeting]

Unsure

(

FancyPants

replacement) should go next. Not entirely sure

geraintm

is mafia after posting 718.

[Greeting]

This is great! I absolutely take back 743 though, as it's entirely possible that

geraintm

was trying to derail the wagon.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Malcolm

Why?

[Greeting]

Ultimate obvious bus.

I read back, and to be fair, this bus doesn't look good. But overall he doesn't seem very scummy.

[Greeting]

No, I'm not going after

MalcolmTucker

, especially that

Unsure

jumped on that wagon so easily.

VOTE: Unsure

[Greeting]

So I just did an exercise where I took the names of all remaining players and removed the ones I'm townreading. Order is not relevant.

{

Unsure

,

Firebringer

,

Fredrick A Campbell

,

Dwlee99

,

Lowell

,

bugspray

,

geraintm

,

UNOwen

,

Prince of Paterson

}

I suppose I could leave

Firebringer

and

geraintm

out for the time being. Although I am not very sure about these two, they have given me some stuff to townread them for, while the rest are all kinda shady.

Crescent

made a good observation about

gera

.

Gera's last two posts of the day are not posts I see him making as scum. Gera doesn't naughty point someone for a hammer if he knows the guy is going to flip scum.

I overlooked that post but yes, you are correct in that it does point towards town

geraintm

.

{

Unsure

,

Fredrick A Campbell

,

Dwlee99

,

Lowell

,

bugspray

,

UNOwen

,

Prince of Paterson

}

If I am correct, all the remaining mafia should be amongst the remaining seven. If we had a 5-member scumteam then more than half of them are scum, and if we had a 3-member scumteam then it's almost half.

[Greeting]

Malcolm's hammer was bad, he needs to explain what arguments he was convinced by and why it took him until Meg was at E-1 to be convinced.

UNOwen

and

MalcolmTucker

are not both mafia because of this post. Most likely one of them is, least likely both are town. My money's on

UNOwen

in this duo though.

Reason? The scumteam just lost one, bussing a second one is a very unlikely strategy for them to take.

[Greeting]

Also Bugspray randomly claiming GS as scum to start day 2 would be insane why are they even on your list?

Claiming Gunsmith is not automatically town indicative. There could be a mafia-aligned Gunsmith, and if there is,

bugspray

could be trying to gain towncred by claiming this and working with town.

[Greeting]

Also Bugspray randomly claiming GS as scum to start day 2 would be insane why are they even on your list?

Claiming Gunsmith is not automatically town indicative. There could be a mafia-aligned Gunsmith, and if there is,

bugspray

could be trying to gain towncred by claiming this and working with town.

Or you know....if bs is mafia. They are just faking being gunsmith. The idea they have to be gunsmith is weird idea to assume is the truthful part if you think could be mafia.

Only way he's scum is if he's actually "scum aligned gunsmith", or scum otherwise

knows

town doesn't have a gunsmith, or else he gets instantly countered and slaughtered.

Between that and Fred countertraining him against Meg, I don't even have an interest in humoring Bugspray being scum at the moment.

ummm its very easy to fake claim gunsmith as mafia.
why would scum assume town has a gunsmith here to counter?
Wait why am i going down this argument.

We both agree Bug isn't mafia. I should avoid pointless arguments

Because it's statistically the most likely PR town has given the setup. Claiming the role blind at the start of the day is absolutely bonkers unless they have a reason to think otherwise.

I would not make assumptions about what a closed setup is and whatnot, and even less would I treat them as fact and assume that the opposite is 'bonkers'. That's all I have to say on the matter of setup speculation.

While my list could have been seen as PoE, truthfully it is not - it is just a list of players which I did not townclear. Regardless of whether he's a town-aligned or mafia-aligned Gunsmith, it is not worth our time to consider eliminating him, at least for the time being.

[Greeting]

I suppose I could leave Firebringer and geraintm out for the time being. Although I am not very sure about these two, they have given me some stuff to townread them for, while the rest are all kinda shady.

i am interested in what i have done that is shady

Well, my mind registered you as solely interacting with

Pooky

on Day 1 and that is behavior which I read as abnormal/not expected from an average townie.

I have never played with you before though so I read you at face value, unlike

Pooky

or

Enchant

, both of whom I know from past games.

[Greeting]

So I just did an exercise where I took the names of all remaining players and removed the ones I'm townreading. Order is not relevant.

{

Unsure

,

Firebringer

,

Fredrick A Campbell

,

Dwlee99

,

Lowell

,

bugspray

,

geraintm

,

UNOwen

,

Prince of Paterson

}

I suppose I could leave

Firebringer

and

geraintm

out for the time being. Although I am not very sure about these two, they have given me some stuff to townread them for, while the rest are all kinda shady.

Crescent

made a good observation about

gera

.

Gera's last two posts of the day are not posts I see him making as scum. Gera doesn't naughty point someone for a hammer if he knows the guy is going to flip scum.

I overlooked that post but yes, you are correct in that it does point towards town

geraintm

.

{

Unsure

,

Fredrick A Campbell

,

Dwlee99

,

Lowell

,

bugspray

,

UNOwen

,

Prince of Paterson

}

If I am correct, all the remaining mafia should be amongst the remaining seven. If we had a 5-member scumteam then more than half of them are scum, and if we had a 3-member scumteam then it's almost half.

I've been led to believe that 4 scum in minis and 5 scum in larges is effectively a hard no here. In 2272 I immediately assumed 4 scum in the game and was shot down on that rather quickly.

Do you think we have 4 scums then, as in 3 left? Or 6 scums and 5 left? Not sure how to interpret your answer.

I have played one 13p mini which had 4 scum, but the host was criticised for it in the post-game when game ended early with a mafia win.

[Greeting]

Yo, Greeting:

Most likely one of them is, least likely both are town.

Why?

I ignored this question before, because the answer to it is in the very post you quoted.

[Greeting]

@Greeting
I think Dwlee is town, based off Meg's actions. Meg's first RVS vote was Dwlee, and bugspray's duel thing day 1 was probably gunsmith related, and I can see town doing that. so I would take those 2 out of the poe, which leaves

Unsure, Frederick, Lowell, UNO, Prince

and now, I really like Prince calling out Fredrick "missing the nightkill" def could be a bus, but uhh I'm at the conclusion Fredrick maf I think

Greeting, why do you TR Malcolm?

Let me tell you that I actually think

Dwlee99

is more likely scum than town. I have played several games with them and in my personal experience, they tend to roll scum abnormally often. I have a secret theory that they're tired of rolling mafia all the time and that's why they aren't giving two shits about this game.

I don't see

Meg

's RVS vote as AI, because these votes aren't meant to be serious. I have never seen anyone get eliminated in RVS in any game of mafia ever.

As for my

Malcolm

TR, I spoke of it in 332. Plus, FancyPants' successor,

Unsure

is onto that wagon again, which makes them unlikely to be both mafia.

[Greeting]

@ Greeting

if you remove the bugspray/lowell pair too, you get left with
Unsure, Fredrick A Campbell, Dwlee99 UNOwen, Prince of Paterson

are you happier with those?

Actually, yes, this does look good for a PoE.

I could go after

Unsure

or

UNOwen

today. Second preference is

Dwlee99

on par with

Prince of Paterson

.

My gut feeling says that

Fredrick A Campbell

is town though. I just kinda see him trying to solve the game and the early game wagon on him as a town hiccup we had over his bizarre behavior. But I've been miseliminated countless times as town for doing weird things too. So I find myself quite unwilling going after

Fredrick

at the moment.

But I haven't looked at this slot closely (I only read his posts while reading the thread in general) since like the beginning of Day 1, and perhaps I should.

[Greeting]

I once quit a job because the people I worked for sucked, and the pay wasn't the biggest problem. A ping-pong table wouldn't have made me stay though.

[Greeting]

@greeting

i still think malcolm is the way to go today

Fine, I'll reevaluate this slot. I didn't like post 877 for example, it feels really not genuine for a townie to not know when a hammer happens.

[Greeting]

Scum: MalcolmTucker (non-commital scum) /Bugspray (Lurking scum)/Geraintm(Newb-scum) /PookyTheMagicalBear(Experienced scum who's sad they rolled scum)


Maybe's: Firebringger/Dwlee99/Lowell

This is the post I use to gloat endgame.
Will defend these opinions to the death, come at me.

After re-reading FancyPants' ISO, I am double convinced that I want his successor gone.

Pooky

was town. I have reasons to townread the other three too. Plus,

Unsure

basically took the same stance which is scum indicative.

This is evidence of

Unsure

going after both

bugspray

and

MalcolmTucker

after FancyPants' was replaced.

Maybe I'm a bit biased but I can't unsee bugs-Crescent-Meg lol

VOTE: bugspray

Do you also scumread Malcolm Tucker?

if Meg is scum i think Malcolm can be scum too because i think their read on meg is remarkably absent of nuance, which is a signature of town!MalcolmTucker.

Reason/explanation? Both FancyPants and

Unsure

were representing not an individual town agenda, which is exhibited by townies who normally have only their suspicions as to who's on their team, but a scum agenda which is focused on finding scapegoats acceptable for town to miseliminate.

Please consider this theory. I wanted

Unsure

gone before I did this research and now I want them gone even more.

[Greeting]

If

MalcolmTucker

had jumped on

Unsure

or

Frederick

right now, I would start second guessing my judgement. But this is accused townie behavior in my opinion.

[Greeting]

I've been waiting for this Greeting, because you're probably town based on Meg's flip so I'll try to woo your confidence here. I'm not scum.

Your point above where you think me and my predecessor agree on stuff? It doesn't mean a thing. I'm not sure where you get the idea that this is scum-indicative, but it's literally just the same as having two slots say the same stance.

Reason/explanation? bugspray is sus and MT is sus and we both read the same game and we both reached the same conclusions. Crosscheck that with the other slots that have also observed the same thing that I have, and then logically deduce if it's because I have a town POV alternate to yours that others might also have.

Have you looked at the content of my posts? Do you have anything to say about it? If nothing else, I really think MT is flipping scum anyway and you're saying we can't both be scum. Suggestion: Help me flip him first, then let's come back to this and decide if you still want to have this conversation.

Quoting this post so that you know that I indeed read your posts and that I remember your earlier question. Although I think you're scum and therefore I do not trust you, there is no harm in everyone seeing all the evidence that is out there.

I can understand that taking the blame for FancyPants isn't a great situation to be in and you can do pretty much nothing about it. But let me tell you that your ISO isn't very good either. You named

Meg

a suspect in 636 and several times later, and in spite of that you never cast a vote on them. This is scum behavior - making good observations, but never acting on them. Scums do this so that in case there is a red flip, they can always bring up their past good observations and make themselves look cleaner. However, reads matter far less than actions and in reality your actions did not bring us closer to a red flip on Day 1.

Your "suspicion" of

Crescent

is a book scum tell, called trying to discredit obvtown people for bad reasons. I see no universe in which

Crescent

is mafia, and you seem to be the only player pursuing her with a flimsy explanation (769).

All this, plus stuff I mentioned earlier regarding

bugspray

and

MT

is pretty damning, and enough for me to want your flip today.

[Greeting]

Crescent

, what do you think of

Unsure

's alignment? What is your take on my case on them?

[Greeting]

Dwlee99 - Solving.

No, they're not.

[Greeting]

i didn't really get GReeting's logic, but it felt like a half decent attempt to read someone. but seems very oppotunistic from vivax.
BTW, this game's Vivax is 100% different to my last game with them. does anyone else have that vibe off them?

It was actually

Vivax

who led me to look into

Unsure

's predecessor on Day 1.

[Greeting]

Hey,

Mala

! You're in luck, because you have until Day 3 to produce content, otherwise I will be voting to eliminate you out as a policy (as I would have had Dwlee99 not been replaced).

xoxo

[Greeting]

Hey,

Mala

! You're in luck, because you have until Day 3 to produce content, otherwise I will be voting to eliminate you out as a policy (as I would have had Dwlee99 not been replaced).

xoxo

This is kinda why I took immediate exception to Fred townclearing them for "solving". DWlee was so inactive and useless that multiple people probably had sentiment like this. It really gave me the impression he's not really reading the game while giving out these reads.

Just because someone is wrong, doesn't mean their intentions aren't genuine. Most people would say Dwlee99 was doing absolutely nothing, but there exists a perspective which counts their push on

Enchant

as scumhunting. I do not think that the scumteam would engage in defense of such a bad slot so openly.

Fredrick A Campbell

sounds too willing to solve the game overall.

I will vote this slot only if there is no feasible chance of getting an

Unsure

elim, and the alternative is no hammer.

[Greeting]

The game slowed down, because all of us, active posters, have made their decisions as to where to go next, and the rest haven't been following up much. Also, in my opinion, the days are a quite long, even for games which have many players. I really don't see us keeping up an intense discussion for the next 7 days.

@

MalcolmTucker

, @

Malakittens

, @

UNOwen

, unless you're waiting for something in particular, you should be casting your votes on existing wagons or making cases of your own.

I'd like unsure to come back so we can get more votes on that slot. Seems the best way to avoid elim is to disappear.

Meg

also disappeared just before they got eliminated.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Fred

Fred was e-2 right?

here you go! e-1

I think it's E-2 now actually as

Firebringer

moved away from the wagon.

[Greeting]

I still strongly prefer eliminating

Unsure

today. Even though

Fredrick A Campbell

is almost certainly our choice for today, I really don't want to announce intent to hammer nor hammer him. I'm not going against my gut here.

Maybe I'm wrong though.

[Greeting]

I still strongly prefer eliminating

Unsure

today. Even though

Fredrick A Campbell

is almost certainly our choice for today, I really don't want to announce intent to hammer nor hammer him. I'm not going against my gut here.

Maybe I'm wrong though.

What's the reasoning for Unsure as scum?

601, 771, and most importantly: 899 and 924.

Going to sleep now.

[Greeting]

I am going on V/LA for the next few days. I uphold my reads I gave so far.

If by the time I get back

Fredrick A Campbell

is at E-1, I will announce intent to hammer and hammer against my better judgement, for the simple reason that it's best to eliminate someone than no one and this still seems to be the choice of most townies. Given the way Day 2 is going, realistically I don't see any other solution, and I would name

Fredrick A Campbell

as a townlean, not a townread too.

Hi

Gamma Emerald

.

And yes,

Crescent

, I worked with both you and

Vivax

, because both of you are active and both of you are my hard townreads. And if you don't trust me and think I'm a deepwolf because I'm good at emulating towniness (it is true, I am good at it), then look at whether my actions have harmed or benefitted town in this game. Not only did I vote out

Meg

, but also I'm not afraid to build my own case on Day 2. If

Fredrick A Campbell

flips red, it's going to be embarrassing for me as I keep defending him and pushing for a counterwagon, but I still keep doing it, because I think he's more likely town than mafia and I'm doing what I think is best for town.

And yes, the last days here in Europe have been really awful when it comes to heat. What's worst is that this is just the beginning, and the summers of the future will be looking like that thanks to climate change.

[Greeting]

Great. Today I want to yeet out:

Unsure

,

Malakittens

or

UNOwen

. This order reflects my preference. The reasoning is already out there and hasn’t changed much.

VOTE: Unsure

[Greeting]

I am wondering why, in spite of being townread so widely, my reads, which I feel are very widely substantiated, are not being shared by the vast majority of players. The fact that there are players who supposedly townread me and whom I townread (

Crescent

comes to mind) and who for some reason keep refusing to work with me leads us nowhere. It's giving me a real headache and making me wonder if there is a point in me even speaking about my scumreads anymore.

And yes, some of you people who say are townreading me are lying scum who just know that there is not enough suspicion to scapegoat me and throw me out.

[Greeting]

I guess there also is an alternative explanation, and that is that

Crescent

is a deepwolf who became town leader, and that I am absolutely wasting my effort right now.

[Greeting]

I am wondering why, in spite of being townread so widely, my reads, which I feel are very widely substantiated, are not being shared by the vast majority of players. The fact that there are players who supposedly townread me and whom I townread (

Crescent

comes to mind) and who for some reason keep refusing to work with me leads us nowhere. It's giving me a real headache and making me wonder if there is a point in me even speaking about my scumreads anymore.

And yes, some of you people who say are townreading me are lying scum who just know that there is not enough suspicion to scapegoat me and throw me out.

When have I

ever

said I townread you?

I have read your ISO very carefully and you are correct. You didn't call me a townread and my belief that you did was mistaken.

Nonetheless, I believe I am deserving of a townread for all my pro-town actions in this game. And if you think that I'm a scumread then I dare you to build an actual case against me and vote me out today instead of saying some deepwolf bs because you're being paranoid.

[Greeting]

I am wondering why, in spite of being townread so widely, my reads, which I feel are very widely substantiated, are not being shared by the vast majority of players. The fact that there are players who supposedly townread me and whom I townread (

Crescent

comes to mind) and who for some reason keep refusing to work with me leads us nowhere. It's giving me a real headache and making me wonder if there is a point in me even speaking about my scumreads anymore.

And yes, some of you people who say are townreading me are lying scum who just know that there is not enough suspicion to scapegoat me and throw me out.

You said your reason for townreading Malcolm was meta. Does this hold with his passivity on day 2?

Yes. I really care more about

Unsure

,

Malakittens

or you than

MalcolmTucker

right now.

I get it. He's passive and aloof. But that's the exact same way he was in my game. Sometimes you don't read the play but the man (woman). I'd rather go and vote out a slot who has done virtually nothing instead of him (Dwlee99 - reasoning 885,

Malakittens

is notorious for hating rolling scum in games) or the one I've spent big effort building a case on (

Unsure

).

[Greeting]

I am wondering why, in spite of being townread so widely, my reads, which I feel are very widely substantiated, are not being shared by the vast majority of players. The fact that there are players who supposedly townread me and whom I townread (

Crescent

comes to mind) and who for some reason keep refusing to work with me leads us nowhere. It's giving me a real headache and making me wonder if there is a point in me even speaking about my scumreads anymore.

And yes, some of you people who say are townreading me are lying scum who just know that there is not enough suspicion to scapegoat me and throw me out.

Greeting, it's possible for people to both think that you're town and also disagree with your reads and direction. You might end up being more correct on your reads than I am, I was wrong on Fredrick, but I haven't found your cases convincing so far. I think you look for very different things when making your reads and it makes them hard for me to connect to or agree with.

Of course it is, and I have shown great willingness to explore possibilities other than mine. In fact, most of my scumreads are a result of me reading posts of someone I townread. Could you please expand on why you think my cases are not convincing?

[Greeting]

I am wondering why, in spite of being townread so widely, my reads, which I feel are very widely substantiated, are not being shared by the vast majority of players. The fact that there are players who supposedly townread me and whom I townread (

Crescent

comes to mind) and who for some reason keep refusing to work with me leads us nowhere. It's giving me a real headache and making me wonder if there is a point in me even speaking about my scumreads anymore.

And yes, some of you people who say are townreading me are lying scum who just know that there is not enough suspicion to scapegoat me and throw me out.

When have I

ever

said I townread you?

I have read your ISO very carefully and you are correct. You didn't call me a townread and my belief that you did was mistaken.

Nonetheless, I believe I am deserving of a townread for all my pro-town actions in this game. And if you think that I'm a scumread then I dare you to build an actual case against me and vote me out today instead of saying some deepwolf bs because you're being paranoid.

Of course I'm being paranoid. You're obviously one of the most dangerous players in this game. It's practically my duty to be paranoid.

And, if you're town, you should be paranoid about me. It's simply natural.

Like, Gamma townread me almost immediately in 2272 without giving a reason, and I immediately got suspicious of it. Players that throw shade on me early and often are very often town, as I tend to be a magnet for early scumleans from town players who don't know me. In 2272 it was Scorpious. In 2273 it was Corwin. Can't talk about 2276 as that game isn't over yet.

I was not paranoid about you. I saw the amount of effort you put into the game and that was enough for me to deduce that you're not a threat. Scums are very rarely high posters. Being a high poster always increases the risk of slips. The more you say, the more can be used against you.

I am now getting paranoid about you

, because the influence you have over this game by getting too widely townread is excessive and in spite of this fact you seem to completely ignore my attempts to work with you and paint me as a threat without having any evidence to support it. While I am still willing to believe that the source of this is pure paranoia and the (wrong) belief that I'm too good to be read accurately, there is also a second explanation and that is that my scum reads are correct and you are using your influence on this game to steer townies away.

I am annoyed and frustrated because I simply cannot win this game without working with other townies, and I am yet to hear a convincing argument why are my reads/suspicions wrong as my instincts in this game have been spot-on so far.

[Greeting]

Good, be paranoid about me if you're town. It's better for the game.

No, it's not good. But there is no point in me pushing this any further.

I've already said I could see Unsure pairing up pretty well with Enchant, who is the #1 person I want dead.

Why do you think Enchant is town?

I have townbinned

Enchant

for his early game behavior, which was consistent with his light-hearted attitude and ignored this slot ever since. Is there a reason why I should be focused on him now?

[Greeting]

MalcolmTucker

, who is your biggest suspect right now and why?

[Greeting]

MalcolmTucker

, who is your biggest suspect right now and why?

On gut alone probably Enchant at the moment. But it's a hard read to articulate as I alluded to above. There's probably been some sheeping going on D1 because I'm finding that I TR the vast majority of the player list. I'll maybe need to take a more detailed look at Unsure. Fancy's push on me D1 felt a bit weird and forced but I've not noticed too much either way to make me scumread or townread Unsure.

Good, be paranoid about me if you're town. It's better for the game.

No, it's not good. But there is no point in me pushing this any further.

I've already said I could see Unsure pairing up pretty well with Enchant, who is the #1 person I want dead.

Why do you think Enchant is town?

I have townbinned

Enchant

for his early game behavior, which was consistent with his light-hearted attitude and ignored this slot ever since. Is there a reason why I should be focused on him now?

Enchant is typically hard to read or form a full opinion on, but I think their D2 votes were pretty lazy - Fred to Mala and then the expected hammer on Fred.

What are the most notable differences between town

Enchant

and scum

Enchant

that

Enchant

is exhibiting in this game?

[Greeting]

I've said I think the D2 votes were particularly lazy. Other than that - I find myself TR'ing the vast majority of players here and when narrowed down Enchant's one of the few not emerging as town for me.

I have started reading

Enchant

's ISO and yes, overall he's lazier and contributes less than usual. So I can understand the gut read.

However, I have a major problem with voting out this slot and it's the same one I had with voting out

Frederick A Campbell

and yourself, and that it's a too superficial read. When I read your posts deeply, I don't look into a townie, but into

MalcolmTucker

and from them I deduce that this is town.

Frederick A Campbell

gave me the impression that he's eccentric, but his actions were an attempt at benefitting the town cause.

But is the fact that

Enchant

gives less craps than usual about the game and does more of his usual shenanigans scum-indicative?

[Greeting]

Hang on, maybe I am falling into a trap of thinking that because I can be a deepwolf, everybody can. Let me check some

Enchant

scum games.

[Greeting]

I read back Mini Theme 2265, the last game where I played with Enchant and he was scum. And I honestly cannot tell the difference between him there, here and his usual self. Maybe someone will enlighten me.

If there is no difference, then voting out

Enchant

is a dice roll. And that in itself wouldn't be bad, but I have candidates who in my opinion give better odds than 50/50.

[Greeting]

What do people think of Crescent? It's a slot I'd seen as town so far based on posting but wanted to have a greater look. There's a lot of shading people for joining the wagon without supposedly having a valid reason throughout D1 but also acknowledgement of Meg's drop in activity, almost feels a bit like Crescent could have been hedging there, aware they'd been too defensive. But also feels like there's just too many mentions of Meg/too many interactions early on for them to be scum partners together? Unless Crescent just wanted to be assertive in trying to save their partner.

I can't wrap my head around the fact that her tone is so towny and yet her actions aren't really helping town that much. Town does get opinionated too though, and if I'm wrong about

Unsure

, this statement will also apply to me.

[Greeting]

I can get behind this.

VOTE: UNOwen

[Greeting]

I get Greeting but her vote wasn't that critical to the elimination and we already see she can be inflexible with her reads.

I'm a he. They is also acceptable. She is confusing.

I might not be very flexible, but I am constantly analysing different possibilities, just not finding enough convincing arguments to do a full U-turn.

Answering your question from 1572, it's because not everyone thinks he's scummy. I'd much rather flip

Enchant

if we're supposed to find common ground.

[Greeting]

Why you suspect me

Bc you do nothing

[Greeting]

You guys know this game is a team-based effort?

[Greeting]

You guys know this game is a team-based effort?

I mean, we can dig out evidence and dangle it in front of faces. But whether it convinces you is up to the individual players so maybe it's an individual introspective effort to not overvalue one's own beliefs instead.

I have made my case and tried to drum up support for it.

I have went for my third option as a compromise.

I have spoken with others about their cases, including my #1 scumread, introducing the possibility that I'm wrong and tried to find common ground.

All this resulted in absolutely nothing. So expect me to most likely be disengaged and discouraged for the rest of this Day Phase, because there is not much more I can do at this point other than read the same arguments going in circles. Maybe I'll post memes.

[Greeting]

Very well.

VOTE: Enchant

[Greeting]

Prince of Paterson

is an even worse push than

MalcolmTucker

.

Of course, there are some signs which should push town into looking into this slot if it's still alive in the late game. But none of these signs can be seen right now, and I think that this could be a town counterwagon to

Enchant

.

[Greeting]

I've thought about it again and the fact that there is a really bad counterwagon to

Enchant

means we've hit the jackpot. Scum

Enchant

reacted nervously and went on to push a town contributor (or at least this is how

Prince of Paterson

should be viewed, as of Day 3), instead of someone who is more in the neutral ground, like

Firebringer

.

Everybody, vote

Enchant

. He needs to be hammered.

[Greeting]

This has got to be the most uncooperative, paranoid and idle town I have ever been in on MafiaScum. If I’m voted out, I won’t even be mad, because this game since Day 2 has been unplayable.

The most active town member has a fatal flaw in that she’s very unwilling to work.

I am not ideal myself, but at least I do realise that without other townies I will get nowhere.

You guys know this game is a team-based effort?

Okay, so the conclusion is that I am putting my neck out there for my scumbuddies

Prince

and

MalcolmTucker

. I’m not sure why would I need to do that. If I were mafia, I would be doing absolutely nothing in this game and no one would even care to notice.

[Greeting]

Look i am going to form a team of my townreads right now.

Vivax, greeting, crescent, andante and gera are welcome to join.

We will be team BEAR AVENGERS in honor of my fallen brother Pooky.

Our first prioity is to bring fun back in the game.
The second is for us to agree on a yeet pool and then we can just vote in that.
To determine who in the yeet pool goes we go by majority rule within our group and others have to sheep.

Lets go

I have bent my own will and worked with someone I have scumread for like half of the game. If this isn't determination to form a town circle, I don't know what is.

I think you're more likely town than scum, and I share the townreads to a wide extent, so I accept the invitation.

[Greeting]

Don‘t know about you but I had fun. Might be an attitude thing, it‘s up to me if I take out the good or the bad out of the game at a given moment.
The only issue to me is the stalling but when you stall I can shitpost and still have fun.

Still, the last pages are impressive content wise.
The whole notion from FB that mala always recognizes Ench town is a bit enigmatic, but I‘ll take it.

Yes I‘ll go bear avengers lmao

To me it's glaring obvious you're town,

Vivax

, you just put having fun over solving the game. Perhaps your approach is even better than mine, but for now I'd rather be focused on solving.

[Greeting]

This has got to be the most uncooperative, paranoid and idle town

if you want to form a coalition of mutually townread players so we just vote as a block i am open to doing that so we can stop with the negativity.
But you and crescent need to stop being at each other throats.
I can play neutral third party to get u two to get along.

@crescent how about it?

I am very obviously willing to work with others. Not so sure about

Crescent

.

[Greeting]

It will ruin after one town flip

Not if the flip is you.

[Greeting]

I have a brief amount of time to post but I can't read any but I see Greeting posted, and I'm guessing he focused on Enchant.

What I want from him is to explain Prince. His early ISO is effectively saying "Prince is in my POE" several times, while never giving a read on him.

He then ignores the guy exists for about 830 posts before suddenly yelling "But Prince is town!" when he actually gets pressured. We've had a lot of people get pressured seemingly at random in recent days.

I've been saying Prince is a top two scum option for me all day. I'm not the only one to scumread him for a long while, either. I want a convincing explanation of where this town read in #1518/1519 just came from because it feels both

very

conveniently timed and lackluster, on a guy he hadn't talked about once in any capacity since #886.

I will tell you why my read on

Prince

changed from sceptical to more towny than scummy, but only if you show goodwill by at least reading my posts before jumping to conclusions. I was very patient to work with you, but now I am pissed off and I won’t give before getting something in return.

Even while scumreading

Unsure

, I read all of his posts and knew his stances, I was just choosing not to react to them.

[Greeting]

@

Vivax

Crescent

's vote on

Prince

is not really about him, but about me. Deep inside she believes I'm a deepwolf and she's spending a lot of effort to find evidence to support that claim, and hopes that

Prince

flips red so she can find an argument to support her belief, while refusing to challenge it (also known as confirmation bias).

But right now I think that

Prince

is more likely town than scum, and I believe that this view should be, to an extent, shared by most. This slot should be left in the game unless it is like Day 5/Day 6 and town has absolutely no idea where to go next. But if

Prince of Paterson

is scum, I think this is a deepwolf slot and he should be given the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

[Greeting]

Very well, this is goodwill.

As for the general way I make my reads in mafia games, I strongly prioritise intent over tone, but always weigh both.

I have scumread

Prince of Paterson

early in the game. I saw his tone as being overly careful and weighing his words too much (

Andante

being the exact opposite of this attitude). Back then it was still too early to figure out the intent behind the posts, so I based the whole read on the tone.

As the game progressed, I saw a lot of gamesolving intent and, in spite of the worrisome tone, was willing to leave

PoP

in the grey or nullread zone. Unfortunately, I am unable to focus my attention on everything going on at the game, so I pick my battles. I decided that it was not worthy my attention to focus on that slot for the time being, unless he did something that would strongly change my mind as to what his intent is.

Then, he made this post:

I am wondering why, in spite of being townread so widely, my reads, which I feel are very widely substantiated, are not being shared by the vast majority of players. The fact that there are players who supposedly townread me and whom I townread (

Crescent

comes to mind) and who for some reason keep refusing to work with me leads us nowhere. It's giving me a real headache and making me wonder if there is a point in me even speaking about my scumreads anymore.

And yes, some of you people who say are townreading me are lying scum who just know that there is not enough suspicion to scapegoat me and throw me out.

Greeting, it's possible for people to both think that you're town and also disagree with your reads and direction. You might end up being more correct on your reads than I am, I was wrong on Fredrick, but I haven't found your cases convincing so far. I think you look for very different things when making your reads and it makes them hard for me to connect to or agree with.

Which is a rather unbiased observation, and the only intent behind it I can think of is wanting to me to view the in-game situation in a more objective way. This post literally does not make sense for a mafia to make, because it is

not

in the mafia's interest to have me think in an unbiased way, but to divert my attention and emotions towards an innocent target.

Which is why, I think that

Prince of Paterson

should be left be for the time being.

[Greeting]

Nota bene, this is also why I took a step back from scumreading

Unsure

, although I am not at all convinced that this is a townslot. But they have exhibited signs of willingness to both solve the game and work with their townreads, which is evidence pointing against them being scum. And I figured that if I really want to solve the game, then I have fight my own confbias and do experimental U-turns.

[Greeting]

To be perfectly frank, I've been worried about Greeting ever since I saw his day 2 POE - Notably the sustained inclusion of Bugspray. All I saw Bugspray as at the time was a player scum still desperately wanted to try to find an excuse to vote off because they're so bad at mafia.

Anyway... Not a lot seems to have actually happened. Greeting getting angry at me is actually... Kind of a good look on him.

People have differing degrees of attention they pay to what is going on. Some players in here, and that also includes

bugspray

have a way of making posts that I find inherently offputting and I pay very little attention to them. Which is the reason why I missed

bugspray

's claim, but when others have pointed out that he made a claim I corrected that mistake.

Now, I have no idea why some people keep raising the issue of

Lowell

being a scumread when

bugspray

literally towncleared him as all mafia members should yield in a red gunsmith check. But if I can miss stuff, other players can miss it too, especially in a game with so many players that is rather slow-paced.

[Greeting]

Now, I have no idea why some people keep raising the issue of

Lowell

being a scumread when

bugspray

literally towncleared him as all mafia members should yield in a red gunsmith check. But if I can miss stuff, other players can miss it too, especially in a game with so many players that is rather slow-paced.

:/

~

at least one member of the mafia is a doctor, and they may or may not have modifiers.

Oh, I had no idea a Mafia Doctor does not have a gun in flavour in Normal games.

[Greeting]

To be perfectly frank, I've been worried about Greeting ever since I saw his day 2 POE - Notably the sustained inclusion of Bugspray. All I saw Bugspray as at the time was a player scum still desperately wanted to try to find an excuse to vote off because they're so bad at mafia.

Anyway... Not a lot seems to have actually happened. Greeting getting angry at me is actually... Kind of a good look on him.

People have differing degrees of attention they pay to what is going on. Some players in here, and that also includes

bugspray

have a way of making posts that I find inherently offputting and I pay very little attention to them. Which is the reason why I missed

bugspray

's claim, but when others have pointed out that he made a claim I corrected that mistake.

Now, I have no idea why some people keep raising the issue of

Lowell

being a scumread when

bugspray

literally towncleared him as all mafia members should yield in a red gunsmith check. But if I can miss stuff, other players can miss it too, especially in a game with so many players that is rather slow-paced.

Oh I actually agree with the whole ignoring Bugspray thing. I didn't notice the Gunsmith claim right away either. My take was simple even before that, though: Scum don't set up a player that worthless at the end of day 1 to look better with an awkward late countertrain - They set up a player who actually has value. The only scum motives there would've been genuinely trying to murder a bad player, and I was wary of anyone who still pushed them.

Also you kinda have a way of posting that triggers me. It's like I get the feeling that some of your posts don't actually say as much as they look like they do.

That's okay, I'm not offended. I've been told that I phrase my thoughts in a weird way.

[Greeting]

Anyway, we have slightly more than 2 days to vote out someone out. It may sound like it's much, but it's really not, seeing how slow this game has been going. And, since I am trying to value cooperation over digging myself in a trench and attempting to force everyone around to change their minds, I can bend myself to vote out

MalcolmTucker

for the same reasons I was willing to bend myself to hammer

Frederick A Campbell

. So don't treat me as an obstacle to this wagon.

[Greeting]

Thought excursion: When would you use the word bendable over flexible?
In a mental gymnastics context.

I'm feeling very very personally attacked rn.

I have natural tendencies to categorise things in a binary fashion. It is stronger than me and affects my life in much more severe ways than just reads in a mafia game. If you look at it this way, I am too stiff to flex. I can, however, recognise this as a flaw and only try to work around it and bend. But still, this game only has two alignments, which perhaps makes black-and-white thinking more useful than not.

[Greeting]

Unsure if it's too early for me to claim here but given wagon is building momentum and I won't be around overnight, I'm town loyal vigilante. Do with that what you will.

How did you make use of your role?

[Greeting]

Unsure if it's too early for me to claim here but given wagon is building momentum and I won't be around overnight, I'm town loyal vigilante. Do with that what you will.

How did you make use of your role?

My role only allows me to successfully hit someone if they are town, so I have not used it yet because I'd not been confident enough of scum in D1 or D2 and felt the benefits of vigging someone were outweighed by the negatives of losing a townie.

You could have been basically a Town Cop by targeting suspcious players and you chose to do nothing? Even when we eliminated a mafia on Day 1?

I will wait some time for objections and if there are none, I am hammering this slot.

[Greeting]

I can't, as he's still at E-2. Still, this is a really bad explanation, and quite frankly, I don't believe the claim. This is a very easy way to weasel out.

[Greeting]

We basically have two options here:

a)

MalcolmTucker

is telling the truth: he didn't know what to do with his role, which, being a Town Loyal Vigilante on the surface may look useless, but is in fact very powerful.

b)

MalcolmTucker

is lying: this is a convenient claim of a power role, which has a convenient explanation as to why there is no evidence of it being used overall in the game.

The arguments to support a) are:
- the role looks believable in this setup, it is a self-designed Datisi set-up and he likes unconventional roles;
- this approach does fit

MalcolmTucker

as a player overall.

The arguments to support b) are:
- the role has not been used at all, there has not been an attempt made to even look into how to make use of the role, which is infuriating from a town perspective;
- the claim is convenient, because it has an explanation on why there is no evidence of role usage to give.

Having taken a step back, I think I am choosing option a) after all. If the claim is real,

MalcolmTucker

is going to be killed off at Night, and if not, and there is no evidence of him killing or getting a guilty on someone, I will be the first one to vote him out later.

So I think I am staying on

Enchant

.

[Greeting]

The mafia are probably rolling on the floor laughing now. If I were, I certainly would be though.

[Greeting]

I think that the WIFOM fears with regard to

MalcolmTucker

's role are exaggerated. I don't like setup speculation in general, but since this is being brought up as a major argument, let's look at it with sensible and logical assumptions.

Let's say that the mafia do have a second roleblocker.

MegAzumarill

had only one shot. I think the setup would be really broken if the mafia had a second, unlimited roleblocker. Worst case scenario, the other roleblocker has one or maximum two shots. And, two nights have already passed. How certain are we that the mafia have not used at least one shot already? Or even two shots? They have to run out of shots eventually, if they haven't yet.

Let's say that the mafia do not have a second roleblocker. They have a choice: kill off

MalcolmTucker

or let him live. Letting him live, and letting us tell

MalcolmTucker

how to use his role to benefit the town cause means they are allowing a weaker Town Cop with unlimited shots run about. If

Malcolm

is aware that he's getting on the chopping block himself for not using his role any further, we should get evidence of him being a vig as soon as tonight. This scenario is a recipe for disaster for the mafia. It makes far more sense from the mafia perspective to kill him off. The death of

bugspray

also seems to indicate that the mafia's priority is killing off power roles, and this is what I would expect to happen.

If, for some reason, kills do not happen and

MalcolmTucker

is still alive, I will be the first one to organise a wagon against him on Day 5 or Day 6. That is, if I'm still alive. Feel free to remind me of this promise should I forget.

[Greeting]

We have less than 24 hours left. Please leave

Malcolm

be for now and vote for someone else. Of the existing four wagons,

Enchant

and

Malakittens

I can wholeheartedly get behind. But we really should be making a decision now.

[Greeting]

And as for you,

@Malcolm

.

You are to use your role every Night for as long as you're alive in the game from now on and report whom you shot. Refusing to use your role is letting it go to waste. It's not a big deal if you kill off a suspicious townie. If you try to shoot a suspicious player and nothing happens, you must report this immediately, because there's a very good chance this means it's a scum.

If I had your role, I would use it on:

Malakittens

,

Enchant

(if he does not get eliminated today),

Unsure

,

UNOwen

and maybe

Lowell

. Order is from most preferable to least.

If you have no idea whom to shoot, because you have too many townreads, feel free to use mine or from any other player you townread the strongest. I would say that shooting someone who is not in

Firebringer

's town club is very strongly preferable.

If you refuse to work with us, then I will automatically assume that you're mafia and will push for your elimination. And there may come a time in this game when we can no longer afford to miseliminate a townie. If you're the townie who gets hunted for lack of cooperation in ELo, you will be widely blamed for our loss and rightfully so.

I hope I made myself clear.

[Greeting]

Alright with this slot getting thrown out. I can't think of a single argument against it, only if the alternative is someone even more suspicious.

VOTE: Malakittens

[Greeting]

Oh and for the record even if MT is town (he's not, but I digress), there's a sizeable chance we get nowhere anyway. I did some quick mental math that.. No one's really bothered to do on it.

If we vote town here, them even disregarding roleblocker fear, there could potentially be three scum doctors. He gets no result on them, no result on the people they save, and no result if he shoots scum's NK target. He has a mere 4/11 chance of actually producing a result under these circumstances. Someone who doesn't die has only a 50% chance of being scum.

Even if we vote off scum here, say we have two scum doctors remaining... That's still 5 people he won't get a result on, and his chances of getting one are 6/11. Someone who doesn't die still has only a 50% chance of being scum.

It's basically taking a claim that's a coinflip of actually producing a result, that will produce nothing but coinflip results, and acting like it's "easily testable/confirmable". If we let him live today, we pretty much have to also let him live tomorrow, because of how high the chance he produces nothing even if he's town. This basically means we have to leash someone just about everyone thinks is scum until we get tired of him producing no result, as it is perfectly feasible town MT could fail to do so for 2 or 3 consecutive nights depending on our upcoming flips.

That said, I did say I was perfectly alright just throwing Mala into a volcano earlier...

Why on Earth would there be three mafia doctors? A mafia doctor is a counterbalance to a town vigilante. Do we have three vigilantes in this game, none of whom have used their roles at all?

I understand that your concern is that the mafia doctors are going to heal townies to produce fake positives for the Loyal Vigilante. The solution to this is to give

MalcolmTucker

a list of players to shoot and ask him to choose one and not tell which one until after it's done. Yes, it's that easy. There is always a chance of him getting a false positive if the mafia happen to heal that particular (town) player. But, if, let's say, there are six players on that list and we have two mafia doctors (sorry, but I don't believe that there are three mafia doctors in this setup), then there's a 4/6th chance that

MalcolmTucker

gets an accurate result. And that is all, if we assume that the mafia choose this strategy over the risk that there is, for instance, a non-Loyal Town Vigilante who can just shoot and kill one of them.

I think that while your train of thought is both possible to happen and logically sound, contains too many assumptions, and these assumptions ignore optimal strategies in favour of the idea that the mafia are just going to shock and surprise us. It is possible to happen, but leaving a townvig with Cop-like possibilities just to toy with town is so risky. In my experience, it is rare for the mafia to take a suboptimal path to win instead of the easiest one. When I roll scum, my priority is neutralising threats over leaving them be to confuse town.

[Greeting]

Vivax

, I ask you jump on the

Malakittens

wagon and someone from the

MT

wagon announce intent to hammer. If

Mala

does not claim (and I don't expect her to do so), hammer her. It's about time this Day is over.

[Greeting]

I don't buy

Mala

's claim at all.

To me, this was evidently a last-ditch effort to save herself from elimination and to get us to eliminate

MalcolmTucker

instead. And, of course, conveniently, her role supposedly works even nights only so her role is not provable on Night Three.

I think we should decide if it's not better to mass role claim and figure out the setup now.

[Greeting]

I know the mantra by heart: don't eliminate an uncc'd power role. But the circumstances in which this claim arose,

Mala

's play in this game (and Dwlee's), the claim itself (as I said in 2189) and the result of this claim - the miselimination of

MT

are all ringing my alarm bells

hard.

I am down to eliminate

Malakittens

today. My instincts haven't failed me in this game yet and they keep telling me this is a very convenient fake claim.

Mala

doesn't give too many damns about this game (as she never does when she rolls scum), then unexpectedly shows up, claims and offers a one-two sentence explanation?

I. Do. Not. Buy. It.

VOTE: Malakittens

[Greeting]

I realise the question is pointless because everyone is dead, sorry

Unrelated, but this might be the best sentence I've ever seen someone write in a mafia game.

[Greeting]

Also I kinda think Andante softclaimed hoping she'd get shot for it so.... I don't think much of her dying, really. I expected her to.

I would have shot a cop over a rolestopper. Especially since

Andante

was raging and not scumhunting.

[Greeting]

I think we should decide if it's not better to mass role claim and figure out the setup now.

I'm in favour of a mass claim today.

I mean, this game is mountainous anyway. Town is doing a "try not to use your role in an effective way" challenge and succeeding.

If

Mala

's claim is true then her green check on

Enchant

will be the only case where a PR has helped us win this game. Too bad it's a (in my opinion) scum fake claim.

If not today then I say we mass claim Day 5. I bet my ass

Malakittens

will still be alive then and claiming she was roleblocked.

[Greeting]

Lowell

's claim actually does make sense combined with

Malakittens

'. I do think that Datisi would put in two cops, one odd night and one even night.

UNVOTE: Malakittens

And yeah, calling

Mala

worthless was over the line. She may not have contributed to the game that much, but that doesn't mean she's worthless.

[Greeting]

Odd night/even night cops weakens the role significantly, because until they claim they might not trust each other and investigate the same players. It's a good mechanic for a game and a good thing for balancing.

Will come back to analyse the game later, as I'm not really in the mood right now. But I think I've settled on deciding to believe all the claims and results for now.

[Greeting]

Wait, I am sorry. It was

UNOwen

who claimed and he investigated

Lowell

.

[Greeting]

And my paranoia about Crescent is firing up. That would make Lowell town for example. If that's the case, it's a town doctor, which keeps Owen alive and probably kills me on the next night.

Crescent said that seeing Andante getting tunneled triggered her, which is unusual if you don't know that the reasons are bad. That points at Crescent having TMI and being mafia, actually. Andante having flipped town helps with that, though it wasn't too surprising as a pick.

I agree that

Crescent

is looking worse and worse the further we get into the game. Her dedication to the game and depth of reads heavily contrasts with her incorrect reads, stubbornness and poor voting record. If she is still alive by like Day 7 or so, town might need to kick her out.

If that is the case, the lengths she goes to get townread are very impressive.

[Greeting]

Alright, let's compile the claims. I am surprised that no one has even thought of it yet.

Unsure -
Vivax -
Greeting -
Firebringer -
Malakittens - Even Night Town Cop
Crescent -
Lowell - (town-proven by UNOwen)
Enchant - (town-proven by Malakittens)
geraintm -
UNOwen - N3 Town Cop
Prince of Paterson -

So here is the list of the players who either did not claim or were not town-proven (myself removed):

{

Unsure, Vivax, Firebringer, Crescent, geraintm, Prince of Paterson

}

If all claims are true, then the remaining 3-4 mafia should be in here.

Now, let's color all the townreads green.

{

Unsure,

Vivax

,

Firebringer

,

Crescent

,

geraintm

, Prince of Paterson

}

Conclusion? Either the townreads are off or the claims are off, because if both are right, we're missing one, up to two scum.

[Greeting]

Or, we can not resolve this conflict right now and vote out the scummiest person left.

VOTE: Unsure

But I strongly suggest we do a massclaim tomorrow.

[Greeting]

Mala doesn't even react to another cop claim in this game.
She didn't react to loyal vig initially.
Its kind of like she doesn't care about this game at all.

Mala am i wrong?

She doesn't. I mistakenly thought that

UNOwen

claimed Odd Night Town Cop and not N3 Town Cop.

Which kinda disproves the argument I made in 2273, her claim isn't an exactly good pairing for a N3 Town Cop. I believe her claim less than

UNOwen

's tbf.

[Greeting]

I will claim today only if other players start massclaiming. If not, then I am claiming my role on Day 5, should I still be alive.

[Greeting]

I will claim when I’m deaths fangs with my blood soaking the tips and my sword in the scums eyeballs

I caught inconsistency! You already claimed and town is actually in a laughable state right now.

[Greeting]

I dunno, but once all the claims come out you come outbwith your extra bit of info which just so happens to corroborate some of the other claims. I have the fear....

I have lots of fear right now

Let's look at this logically. Most mafia power roles are useless if there is no town power roles. Three town PRs are dead, fourth one already claimed and their role has been fully used. Even if we assume that

Mala

's role claim is not truthful, how many useful roles can there be left? We are on Day 4, many of them are bound to already have been used up anyway.

I can agree to a compromise to claim on Day 5, like I said before. But I think we will need to do a massclaim then, because the game is dying, the arguments keep running in circles and town, as a whole, has no clear direction on where to go next.

[Greeting]

So we doin this or what?

Assume that we are. Pick the order.

[Greeting]

Omg I knew this was a scum. I’ve been pushing him since forever. Now please hammer

Unsure

.

[Greeting]

STOP. Im a D6 Miller.

Don't believe this claim. Not only did he already claim VT and get

exposed

for lying in 2386, the probability of such a role existing in this game, or any game for that matter is minuscule.

Don't let him get away. I am sussing everyone who is unwilling to vote

Unsure

now.

[Greeting]

I might have been wrong about

Prince

. This could be the last, missing puzzle after all.

The gamesolve is probably

Unsure

,

Malakittens

,

Prince of Paterson

,

Enchant

. One of them is town, rest are all scum.

[Greeting]

It seems unlikely that there are 4 scum left, but if there are then this might be all scum. Holy fuck.

I am, of course, assuming that

Crescent

is town because of her tone and her effort. The reads on the rest have not changed and I believe

UNOwen

’s claim. It’s actually quite clever of him to not disclose the Neapolitan part of his role.

[Greeting]

Mess.

[Greeting]

Thank you for hosting, Dats. Gg to the winning team. That's all I have to say.

[Greeting]

I don’t feel bad at all, I think I did extremely well this game.

I have to congratulate geraintm though, I didn’t think he was scum up until the last day.