Open 859 - C9++ - Postgame

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Infinity

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I am town this game.

Are you town this game?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can I ask which games you have read?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I also think Lucian is town though. And I think Aisa is town. CSF is kinda sus vibes for me.

Talk to me about Lucian being town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Lucian

Scum detected.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Is this one gonna be more interesting than "you're being awkward"?

It depends what you find interesting, I guess. I dislike your throwing out of town reads based on weak sauce.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because the town reads were based on weak sauce.

Reeks of TMI, you know?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's also a very LAMIST approach

[BlueBloodedToffee]

See what I mean? LAMIST.

I don't care how good you think you are, town reading a post like 11 is absurd. That post could

easily

come from Scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wanna just fight each other now and get it over with?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Froggo, I would like you to reevaluate your town read on Lucian.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't know?

But when you say 'you can be town' then my take is that you town read them. To what level is unclear, but a town read nonetheless.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

A town read for what is a completely NAI post I should add.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How about a vote on the Lucian wagon then?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I promise.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I suppose it depends on if you enjoy playing scum or not? Or whether you feel nervous in general as scum? I have seen many a scum enter a game with a joke or memey post. Are you saying you haven't?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't know why you keep equating your town read of Aisa to progression of the game state. That's not what's happened.

You didn't answer my question; have you ever seen scum enter a game with a joke or meme post?

Again, scum can absolutely be relaxed in a game. Especially in the RVS stage where pretty much anything goes. It sounds like you know what things 'should' be town but you have gone about it in a really scummy way.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm equating it since early weak reads are how I drive a game forward in its early stages.

Yes. I have seen scum do that.

I'm not claiming scum can't be relaxed in a game. I'm claiming such behaviour is disproportionately more likely to be exhibited by Town, which is why I gave Aisa a Townread for it.

OK, but your BS read didn't drive *this* gamestate forward so stop talking like it did.

I disagree that town are much more likely to be relaxed. I would argue almost 100% of players are relaxed in the early game, except for possibly the newest of newbscum. Given you have seen scum do it, and therefore know that it should be NAI, I am stunned you gave out a town read for it. It might be disproportionately more likely to be town because town outnumber scum in every game as well.

You're saying a lot of things that make me realise that you're self aware and you know what you should be town read for. I agree with Frog that the frustration seems genuine, too.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT did the same in my first game w him
I have suspicions but not in the mood to name names yet

What's this now?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Even if I agree with that premise, I still think that throwing out that town read was scummy.

It was done in a LAMIST attempt. You did this with 2(?) further stating of town reads as well. I noticed a lack of scum reads, which is really where town shine through.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Explain it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll read up on this later today.

Apologies for not being active.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, I'm reading up on this now

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I like infinity's page 5. feels very calm and collected and chill and other words. Infinity could i interest you in voting Gamma with me or would you prefer to stay on Klick?

I completely missed this post first time around.

Froggo's post to Gamma pinged me and I wasn't sure why (the one where he asked Gamma for any SRs). He then asks Infinity to join him in voting Gamma (Froggo isn't voting Gamma though, he is actually voting the person he is speaking to, Infinity)

Something is off here, complete cognitive dissonance from Froggo. This only works if it's s/s of course, but if one of them flips red, the other needs to go immediately.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aww man, Froggo's early game is really scummy and I completely missed it because I was focused on Lucian.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Froggo and Gamma

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: furtiveglance
the more I think about his responses to me the more his play feels like a dead fish

Maybe not. This is a good vote on Furtive.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm satisfied with my vote at the moment and I don't have a place I'd rather it be. I don't have any outright scumreads.

Hmm. 11 pages into the game and Klick has been very stale with his scum reads. Happy with his RVS vote.

I really don't like this post.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: CSF

Wagon

You abandoned your Furtive scum read to form a random (?) wagon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I worded it incorrectly. I should have said happy with a vote from the RVS portion of the game.

The vote is stale and in fact you go on to say that Lucian is null in 244 so your vote really does hang around for way too long.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Enchant

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't know what that is in relation to?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The location of your vote was important. Especially as it sat on one of the leading wagons for so long, not like it was a vanity wagon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Posts like this, all from page 6;

I like infinity's page 5. feels very calm and collected and chill and other words. Infinity could i interest you in voting Gamma with me or would you prefer to stay on Klick?

You talk like you're voting and scum reading Gamma here, but you're not? You asked Gamma for SRs and you were voting somebody else (I think it was Infinity actually)

do you promise not to SR me for voting someone who i just TR'd?

This is you talking to me as if you know I'm town.

i have been doing this too. and im town. big town pov from klick. not sure if i want to officially TR them yet. but im getting there!

Your change in handing out town reads was noticeable here. You threw out a few early town reads and then once I started scum reading Lucian for it you noticeably changed tact with this one.

sorry for the mix up Lucian this is why I do not like giving TRs so early

You double down on this here. Again, despite throwing out a couple of town reads earlier.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

For clarification; town read on Dunn

I will TR dunnstral. I like how dunnstral changed their question up to something that requires more explaining rather than a yes/no answer. Reads to me like genuine and natural solving.

Town read on Lucian;

Loving all of this -- I was thinking the same thing about Aisa. in the town bin you go!

Reach out to Klick here (town read or no?)

Klick Lucian vote infinity with me
lurkers feel free to get in on this too so we can pivot on to you if infinity ends up looking super town

The flow of your read on Klick doesn't make much sense to me here either.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why didn't you want to clash with me? Also, if you're scum, intentionally ignoring/not acknowledging me could be you trying to leave false associatives, no?

If you were leaning town on Klick why did you make the point of 'not being ready to townread them' in 138? You didn't solidify your read in 138, you made a point of not town reading them!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But you seemed certain with Dunnstral and even town binned Lucian so what's up with that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Really interested in hearing other people's responses to this.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's a really interesting response. Almost every reply so far has you down as town Froggo, and I would have to agree. I wondered whether anyone would pick it up and run with it but they haven't.

Your responses felt honest and genuine, if you're scum, you have AtE'd me enough to buy yourself another Day at least. I am really surprised no-one has scum read you though.

I probably shouldn't reply so soon but I don't see it going anywhere unfortunately.

Pedit - Oh a BBT wagon so close to deadline. Shit's about to get interesting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What would you say your 3 most confident non-froggo reads are right now? Either Town or scum.

Excluding Hiraki for obvious reasons.

Froggo and yourself - town reads.

Furtive - scum read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You've been angling for a BBT vote all day long but you didn't have the balls to push it.

Waiting for someone else to do your dirty work. I see you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

First thing I noticed is that they're not even voting you.

This describes your play all of today, does it not?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not voting froggo?

No. Shading me for all of D1 and not voting me

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CSF and now BBT are looking scum, I think BBT's push on Lucian is way too agressive, just looks out of place and kind of restless, agitating for someone to push.

I've seen scum do things like this, and done it myself. Because it makes people townread you until your push flips.

Talking about me ^^^

Things are becoming clearer now. CSF/GE/Malakittens, ft. BBT/Dunnstral on drums as SK (possibly)

I don't like the Enchant vote, they read more town than scum to me. I'd take a BBT vote if Hiraki is really against CSF going, but I'm feeling like CSF is scum.

I don't think CSF has got any townier either, still like my vote there. BBT needs to give more content. Enchant still leans town to me.

I'm not sure why BBT is declining to share his thoughts about the Enchant/CSF wagons - the most likely eliminations. It's partly why I'm scumreading him, but also his interactions with froggo look like scum grilling town to me.

I see BBT paired with CSF not Enchant - that would explain why BBT's vote for Enchant was unexplained.

As for BBT, they didn't sound that authentic in their reasoning and even after talking to you, they didn't finish with an update of their current thoughts, just opened it up to the floor, which doesn't convince me at all and looks like scummy indifference rather than towny zeal. First thing I noticed is that they're not even voting you.

Conftown is on Enchant so probably the bookies' favourite (yes I'm British), my preferred choice is CSF (or even BBT).

But, I prefer voting BBT to Enchant, and seeing as everyone else has moved, I will too. I wouldn't do this is CSF was close to plurality.

VOTE: BBT

This feels good.

All of Furtive's shading before finally feeling like he has the support to vote me.

Scum angling for a BBT wagon, 100%.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'd say the key difference is the amount of analysis that I give (and that also depends on how invested I am in a game). If I'm scum I'll probably post more irrelevant stuff, and show little to no progression on reads. I'm also prone to tunneling as scum. This post is an example of a nothing post, I'm just talking generally about my playstyle.

Also, a little something special for you all.

Furtive self meta'd and said he tunnels as scum. He has only really pushed CSF or myself as scum, that's it. Those reads are stale as fuck.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

507 is particularly scummy from Furtive.

He states that I have 'declined' to comment on Enchant and CSF wagons. Firstly, I wasn't asked about them at that point so to use the word 'decline' is a misrep. I was simply focused elsewhere at the same and it's that simple.

He also says I haven't commented on the CSF wagon - it had 2 votes when I had caught up? Like, what?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT why did you wait to bring up furtive angling/shading you until now?

Because I was focused on you

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: furtiveglance
the more I think about his responses to me the more his play feels like a dead fish

Maybe not. This is a good vote on Furtive.

I also said this early on in my catch up, so I have clearly disliked Furtive's play from the early game. I only looked into his progression on me as it became more and more obvious that a) a potential BBT wagon was coming and b) Furtive was looking mighty opportunistic.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Cool.

Well, I tell you what. I'm happy to be the elim Today if you're the elim on D2 on my green flip? How about that? Because I can't be assed with the effort of defending myself in yet another fucking game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Let's do it. A voluntary gladiate. Me vs you.

VOTE: Furtive

[BlueBloodedToffee]

This is the game, you've chosen to lurk and selectively interact with the playerlist, it makes you look scummy. Do you think that's unfair?

This is absolute dog shit as well. Chosen to lurk? In what world have I chosen to lurk? If I haven't been here, it's because I simply didn't have the time. I don't lurk as either alignment.

Selectively interact? I bet this could be leveled at half the players in this game. At least.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CSF and now BBT are looking scum, I think BBT's push on Lucian is way too agressive, just looks out of place and kind of restless, agitating for someone to push.

Your CSF and BBT reads are stale as fuck. You have held them since here and shown 0 signs of reevaluating. You just paint everything from either slot as scum. As you said in your own self meta, you're tunneling.

This should be plain for anyone to see.

Also, if you're town leaning Enchant, why haven't you tried to stop the wagon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't explain myself to scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My point about the Enchant wagon is no longer valid as I noticed that it was 50% your scum reads. You could have tried to get Lucian/Hiraki off it but whatever, I'll just concede that point.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Pre-flip associatives are bad and you're going to look very silly.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Loud and wrong it is then.

Keep shouting from the rooftops.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, I genuinely scum read them but their response to me felt super towny. It just flipped my read almost on the spot. I wanted to leave it open to see if anyone would try and continue my push on Frog before I gave my opinion but they didn't.

I could revote Enchant. I don't really like vanity wagons and now that I've calmed down I'm not as sure that Furtive is scum as I was last night. I should probably stop reacting to people when they push me but, you know, old habits die hard and all that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Enchant

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's a mood. What flipped the read you had on me?

I think you looked better on a reread. I also started scum reading Frog so it made me think you were more likely to be town with him jumping onto your wagon.

I also liked that you were town reading me despite a) me pushing you based on weak reasoning and b) there being a clear opportunity for you to push back on me if you wanted (which I feel scum!Lucian probably takes)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why did you vote Enchant at the time if you were genuinely scumreading froggo?

There was a viable Enchant wagon and I had no read on the slot so wanted pressure there. I find Enchant incredibly difficult to read.

I also wanted to wait for Froggo to respond to me before really pushing for a wagon there.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Klick, let's talk about that vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well, that's just scummy as shit isn't it?

You're elimming me for info because PoE? You got anything else or is that it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's not what happened at all?

Furtive spent literally the entire game shading me from very early on. These are also people whom with Furtive has interacted with less than me.

So what you're saying doesn't make any sense at all

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How do you read Enchant, Frog?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do you see Enchant hunting for scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Or do you see them doing anything even remotely useful this game?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh I forgot, it's shading because BBT said it's shading and therefore that's the only valid interpretation of what furtive is doing

I quoted all of the posts showing Furtive doing this? You can go back and counter my points if you really believe in what you're saying?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I read your post and it's the exact post that made me go 'hey, if furtive is scum, it's probably with BBT because that's exactly how he interacts with his partners'

No, you were arguing that Furtive had not been shading me and I have very clearly shown that that was the case.

Pedit - You allowed yourself to get ran up like this as Doc?!?!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh I forgot to say, I'm not going to give PR claims the usual respect in this setup, because I would definitely pick a random role as scum.

This you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do it

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Klick is super scummy and it makes me not want to elim Enchant tbh.

UNVOTE:

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think Klick is town for doubting the claim so hard, I think mafia would approach it more like froggo is doing.

Or scum taking adv of the chance to elim a Doc?

I realise I just literally said 'Do it' myself, but I didn't understand Klick's push on me either. He linked us as scum but said he doesn't think you're scum and you can only be scum on a red BBT flip.

That seems mental reasoning, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I missed your post first time around.

I also explained that it's not just the elimming of Enchant either but you seemed to ignore the rest of that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's also funny how you said you read meta and it gave you a read on Furtive but you want to elim me.

Surely if you recognised how scum Furtive interacts with partners then it would make sense to elim Furtive first and then go from there? Although, you said you were not scum reading Furtive, right?

So, I'm scum because of the way Furtive has interacted with me and you have meta on Furtive that says this is how scum!Furtive interacts with partners so you want to elim BBT?

That literally makes no sense.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Talk about why I'm scum

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And that makes sense to you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Malcolm being Furtive, obv...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Of course I want your awful push to be highlighted

[BlueBloodedToffee]

32 pages and no scum reads?

Seems like a skill issue.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because he's not a Doctor, he's scum.

No scum reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How do you distinguish the difference between scum who's bothered by shitty reasoning or town who know you're wrong?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

785 from GE is good, didn't even pay attention to that

I need to completely reset in this game. I'm all over the place

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Who would you want to elim Aisa?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sounds like you're regretting it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It would also be extremely beneficial for scum!Froggo to show some hesitancy before hammering a Doc claim, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yup, which I did. And then didn’t hammer.

Because the opportunity had gone.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hot take, scum doesn't usually say "goddamn, I wish I had done this scummy thing when I had the chance". I'm guessing froggo is Town.

Why would hammering Enchant have been scummy?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can see that. It's probably less scummy of a hammer when 2 people suggest to go ahead with it. I think scum!Froggo may have thought he was safe in the knowledge that Enchant was going to be the day's elim and he could get town points for seeming hesitant.

I can also see scum thinking 'I better not immediately hammer incase I get backlash from it Tomorrow. I'll wait until people have had their say.'

And then thinking 'Damn, I wish I had hammered when people were telling me to because now I' m coming under some pressure and we could have had the Day over with.'

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm trying to form a pool of people I think have done enough town things for me to not want to elim them Today.

I keep coming back to Enchant though and thinking it's probably best to just elim them and go from there?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Furtive, you still think Enchant is town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why you not voting?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I concur with Lucian, that is good posting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Enchant

Hoping to wake up to a hammer.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Enchant scumflip makes BBT scum more likely imo, since this BBT post detracted from the Enchant wagon at the time.

760 is also pretty bleh. In light of the Enchant flip, I think Klick is very likely town based on how he reacted to the doctor claim. So the 760 vote on Klick just seems like a last ditch effort to save the roleblocker.

OK, no. So my voting of Furtive detracted from the Enchant wagon? How? How many people did it detract from the Enchant wagon? I think it was exactly 0?

I agree that Klick is very likely town from the Enchant flip, my unvote of Enchant looks bad, I agree with that, too. But I started scum reading Klick and it gave me second thoughts about Enchant. My scum read on Klick was going nowhere either in terms of building a wagon so if I wanted to pick a counter wagon for Enchant I could have chosen someone better than Klick.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeahhh Mafia don't kill Mala over Hiraki, ever.

I'd claim it if Roleblocker, but not if Doctor.

This is a good point.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm actually thinking slightly differently on Klick. I said I TRed them for their confidence in the scum flip. Funnily enough, that was because I was thinking Enchant might flip town.

Enchant being Roleblocker make some think scum would be extremely unlikely to want to elim them.

I want to look earlier in the game when Enchant wagon starts building and see what happens around that. Scum would have been reluctant to bus Enchant IMO.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CSF and Lucian are town from Enchant flip as well.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

1.FINAL

Votecount 1.FINAL

Enchant (ELIMINATED): Hiraki, Lucian, Cat Scratch Fever, Malakittens, Klick, BlueBloodedToffee, froggodoggo
Malakittens (2): Enchant, Dunnstral
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Infinity 324
furtiveglance (1): Aisa

Not Voting (2): furtiveglance, Gamma Emerald

Froggo's posting around the Enchant hammer really gave me scum vibes.

He is literally the only person on the Enchant wagon who I think can be scum, too.

Outside chance of Klick, but I'm not entertaining that any time soon. It's entirely possible both scum were off the wagon I guess

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mala was killed because she was town from Enchant flip btw

[BlueBloodedToffee]

[Infinity, Gamma, Dunn, Froggo]

Last two scum are here.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mala was killed because she was town from Enchant flip btw

Maybe not. Enchant vote was from RVS

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Infinity why did ur slot vote me earlier. i don't want to let that go unexplained.

the whole "i'm new and i'm flustered because i'm being pressured" is >rand scum.

-ash

Interesting interaction.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wait there have to be 2 Mafia left with a RB flip don't there
Massclaim bad idea then

How do you know this by the way?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wait there have to be 2 Mafia left with a RB flip don't there
Massclaim bad idea then

How do you know this by the way?

There’s no 2-mafia setups with RB, only GF
The scum team has to be 2 Goons+RB or Goon+RB+GF

Where can you find this out?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fuck me.

I swear I have played this game before

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Talk about Gamma being obvtown Klick?

Infinity read too, please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Frog

[BlueBloodedToffee]

not really into the enchant lim, the "think before i vote" thing is kinda meaningless to me and limming a contentless slot on d1 doesn't seem great. i'll vote there at deadline obviously though

enchant needs to die and i think a night phase would help me get more engaged regardless
-ash

Explanation for this read progression on Enchant would be good

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Infinity/Froggo is my top two atm

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Infinity and Froggo pretty much sat on me all day long.

Hard to see them being scum together.

So one of Froggo/Infinity and one of Gamma/Dunn

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah but Furtive is town anyway so that doesn't really matter

[BlueBloodedToffee]

aisa is somewhat towny

VOTE: BBT

i don't think csf is really getting townier but we can go here

Talk about this please Infinity.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Infinity

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You OK?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Straight face in previous post.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Froggo, can the same not be applied to Infinity? Check my previous post regarding their read progression on Enchant and tell me how it makes sense.

Furtive is town for our EoD1 discussion

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Froggo, you understand the post you quoted from Infinity means it's unlikely Furtive is aligned with Enchant and it's more likely that scum!Infinity tried to tie town!Furtive to Enchant, right?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

1026 to be precise

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why is Klick Townier from the Enchant flip?

Because he wanted to proceed fully despite the claim. I think scum!Klick at least waits for thread to respond to Enchant's claim first in case there is a chance Enchant is saved from the elim. With Enchant being Roleblocker, I would expect scum to not really want to bus them and to want to save them at any opportunity (kind of how Frog did with his posting around the hammer)

Of course, it could be scum looking for the cred of an Enchant flip, but I'm not really entertaining this thought Today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Infinity trying the old 'Maybe if I ignore it then it will go away' routine.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Froggo and Furtive... Can we not?

Infinity is today's elim. Don't let them out of the spotlight by creating a distraction.

Thanks!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mala was killed because she was town from Enchant flip btw

How confident are you on this? What do you think of the other theories that have been proposed?

Not sure you ever addressed this, BBT.

Oh, I addressed it in almost the very next post.

I saw that Enchant's vote on Mala was RVS and there wasn't actually much (if any?) interactions between Mala and Enchant.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

i explained this already right? doc claim was obviously awful and needed to be resolved at some point, and massclaim doesn't necessarily help. like if there's no other doc claim do we leave enchant alive?

I don't understand why the Doc claim was obviously awful?

You also showed very little interest in elimming Enchant until it was pretty much certain that they were going to be elimmed. As well as this, you started setting up Furtive almost immediately upon an Enchant red flip.

Like, you knew Enchant was flipping red and dropped in that you need to reevaluate your Furtive read because he looks bad if scum Enchant. It all looks way too convenient.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

at the time i was a bit worried about the deadline and felt like the csf vote wasn't really going anywhere. figured i would try to start a wagon on someone who i felt hadn't really towntold

You were worried about the deadline? So you left a wagon/push with 3 votes on it (even though your read hadn't changed) to start pushing a brand new wagon (you were the first vote) because you were worried about the deadline?

Explain how that makes sense.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

i thought it would be later on too but /shrug, gamma wasn't being towny and i thought she would continue not to be towny

pedit: why does that post ever come from town

VOTE: furtive

Did you reevaluate that read? Tell me more about why Furtive is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

scum claims pr there 100% of the time, and doctor claim is one of the safest since there's no info you have to report and be held accountable for

A doctor also claims doctor 100% of the time in that scenario, too.

I'm struggling to understand your 'Enchant is 100% scum because they claimed Doc' after not being interested in elimming them at all.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

In my 1146, the quoted post is from Infinity, not Froggo. Not sure how I did that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Gamma, you voting Furtive because you think he is SK is scummy

You should be trying to find scum, no? We have no reason to believe a SK exists

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Or you could just vote now?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Especially as Furtive is the current counter wagon to Infinity.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, that's fair enough.

You looking to discuss anything in particular?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Running to work right now, Infinity looks towny to me and I don't have time to get into why. Last page or two of Infinity content was really good though and I'm surprised people aren't seeing it themselves. I'm beginning to lean town on Dunn, which concerns me because unless it's like exactly froggo/BBT then I think I've gone wrong somewhere.

I await you explaining what about Infinity's posts were good.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, you currently have 3 votes so I'm not sure I agree that Frog was an easier pivot?

Even if he was, why does Infinity scum reading you make them town? They literally set it up yesterday before Enchant's flip

[BlueBloodedToffee]

also i need to see if i need to review my furtive read. vibes feel very towny but a systemmate is telling me that an enchant red flip would make furtive look bad

-ash

Here.

There is an acceptance that Enchant will flip red as they're already pre-emption their next moves upon said red flip.

It's hardly a surprise that they have stuck with this read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Enchant do you not care if you get voted out??

Then why aren’t you trying to not die

Let me into your mind, Enchant. >:)

Is this really a s/s interaction? I feel like something along these lines would be much more likely to go into a PT if genuine?

Enchant I’m not even voting you… but I’m really not a fan of players who don’t defend themselves. I ain’t convincing myself not to push u that’s ur job.

This does though? Frog seems reluctant to actually vote Enchant despite having reasons to? He also stated around here that he was lost in the game so this would seem to give him some direction and he doesn't take it up?

My biggest fear about the Enchant wagon is that Mala who is a literal question mark is on it and you are on it after getting pissy abt furtive. Maybe there was a reason for the switch but i don’t recall it rn

This is poor reaosning for avoiding the Enchant wagon.

At this point probably not. In most games that would be a nail in the coffin but there are replacements on this site and I did see Enchant do some solving in their overall site ISO. But you definitely do have a point. If y’all are gonna be advocating for Enchant’s death all game then maybe it’s worth getting it over with.

Does this read as a partner accepting their scum buddies fate to anyone else?

Putting Enchant at E-1 in 6 hrs if no one else has done so already

This post is weird. Why 6 hours? Why the reluctance to E-1 somebody? I think this is much more likely to come from scum!Frog than town!Frog.

Oh cool they claimed Doc

This was also a weird reaction to the claim. Not annoyed that we outed a Doc and not disbelieving the claim either. It just kind of does nothing?

Hi hello why are we killing the doc claim. I would like to have a doctor around tyvm!!

Believes the claim straight away and is not even the slightest bit aggrieved at a Doc being outing despite seemingly being against the wagon for so long.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dunn, you think both Infinity and Froggo can be scum together?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

They both sat on my wagon pretty much all of D1. Do you think both scum co-ordinate and sit together like that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Froggo

I can do this. I think this is E-1?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm pretty much the same.

I can go Frog or Infinity. I'm pretty sure scum are within the pool I quoted earlier so I'm not fussed

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dragging out days for the sake of dragging out days is anti-town.

It's clear that on this Day it is going to be Froggo or Infinity - so let's get it done.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Infinity, talk about your vote and read on Furtive please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Infinity, talk about your vote and read on Furtive please.

i feel like we already have and not sure what else you want to know

Not really.

You said you were going to reeval the Furtive read but then you just ended up voting them over a jokey post and kind of left it there.

Unless I am missing something?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bye bye Froggo

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah but if he is 1-Shot he would KNOW that there was a Doc in the game and he didn't seem to show this on Enchant's claim (If I'm understanding set up correctly)

He didn't react to the Doc claim as he should if he is 1-Shot.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Infinity

This wins the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah, not a Cop.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So one of Froggo/Infinity and one of Gamma/Dunn

Nothing has changed.

Can we just win this real quick?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll leave the set up spec to others. I have no idea when it comes to this sort of stuff

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm feeling really satisfied right this second that we'll win if we vote in {BBT, Aisa}
Everyone else is having the town reaction to today's events

This is terrible.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

ISO Dunn and look at his interactions around Infinity.

Specifically D2 when I am speaking to him about whether Froggo/Infinity can be scum together.

Notice how he agrees with my push on Infinity, thinks Infinity could be scum, but ends up voting Froggo.

Then notice that Dunn barely interacts with Infinity throughout the entire game.

It's Infinity.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Looking at the mod ISO, I see Dunn was not voting while the wagons were fighting between froggo and Infinity. Gut tells me that's actually +Town for Infinity, but I'm not sure. Anyone got meta on scum!Dunn voting patterns?

I mean, he literally voted for the counter wagon to Infinity?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dunn, you think both Infinity and Froggo can be scum together?

I have both low in my reads but have not thought about this. I see that Froggo is voting for Infinity right now which would be bold if they were scum together. So I am leaning towards no that doesn't seem likely. Actually other than that there isn't anything that makes me think they're not scum together, so maybe this is too shallow.

They both sat on my wagon pretty much all of D1. Do you think both scum co-ordinate and sit together like that?

I don't think this is a good reason to say they cannot be aligned; I could see two mafia voting together on day 1. That's not to say that I necessarily think they are aligned though, I just don't agree with this

put me to e-1 and claim intent or get off me, make up ur mind town >:P i better wake up to one of these things happening

VOTE: froggodoggo

Intent

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Infinity wasn't on the Enchant elim either.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sigh.

Conf bias is a thing huh.

You wanna engage with anything else I have said or just cherry pick? Have you checked the interaction between Dunn/Frog and Dunn/Infinity to see if what you're saying is actually true?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Cool.

I guess I'll just leave you to it then.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It does?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I've only been focused on Infinity since D2? So literally one game Day...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Even if I was, it certainly wasn't a 'singular focus' as you said in your previous post.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

From a quick ISO skim, I didn't even mention Infinity on D1

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I found my elim pool Yesterday and I'm pushing ahead with it Today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Furtive was scum reading Dunn and Infinity btw.

I remember someone questioning why they died.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What did you gain from Dunn/Infinity interactions Klick?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Infinity and Frog were both 'low reads' for Dunnstral.

However, he spent more time interacting and pushing Frog than he did with Infinity. In fact, my whole point is that Dunn barely interacted with Infinity throughout the game but had him as a low read. Why? Why didn't he push this read as hard as he pushed Frog? Why didn't he vote Infinity? Why was Infinity a low read?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But Infinity sounds sooo town
My tone reads are famously reliable

Why does Infinity sound town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're forgetting that Infinity 'was at significant risk of elim,' too.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

2.06

Votecount 2.06

Infinity 324 (E-2): BlueBloodedToffee, Cat Scratch Fever, Lucian, froggodoggo
froggodoggo (E-2): Hiraki, Klick, Aisa, furtiveglance
furtiveglance (2): Infinity 324, Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (1): Dunnstral

With 11 players alive, it takes 6 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2022-08-01 21:16:50).

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Where are his reasons for scum reading Frog?

If you find them, do you think they outweigh his thoughts on Infinity?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The fact he had Infinity as a low read and you're struggling to find any justification for that read should really be setting off red flags.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

2.07

Votecount 2.07

froggodoggo (E-2): Hiraki, Klick, furtiveglance, BlueBloodedToffee
Infinity 324 (3): Cat Scratch Fever, Lucian, froggodoggo
furtiveglance (2): Infinity 324, Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (2): Dunnstral, Aisa

With 11 players alive, it takes 6 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2022-08-01 21:16:50).

Meh. I suppose some pressure had come off Infinity because I switched wagons.

How annoying.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So, who's scum Infinity?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Convenient.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

i feel like it actually does make sense from scum? like either as a cheeky joke thing or as an actual ill-conceived sk crumb. idk I've seen traitor claim traitor to people as a "reaction test". maybe i'm silly for seeing that kind of thing here but it raises alarm bells.

The traitor claim thing sounds like something a townie would come up with more easily.

What makes you think this is more likely to come from town? They wanted suspicion to stay on Furtive and this line of thinking allows them to keep pushing it, no?

it's also like, town has to recognize how much confusion/wine that is gonna cause

also yeah i felt like furtive is >rand an enchant partner (and i'm not sure why y'all think i was setting it up as opposed to, just thinking about what my reads would look like on a red flip? it's clear that's what we were expecting anyway)

and our poe is starting to get thin

Point about wine -> I like
furtive is >rand an Enchant partner -> true
Not setting furtive up -> yeah idk this makes sense as a comment to me
poe starting to get thin -> yes

If Infinity is scum, their fake townspew in this post is flawless

Point about wine, again, just reinforces that they want Furtive to be elimmed. If they genuinely thought that Furtive had a chance of being SK (and maybe this is why he was killed?) then scum definitely want to get rid of him, no?

The push on Furtive was bad, I understand how he could be scum because of associations with Enchant but his overall play indicated very likely town.

It wasn't just stating reads upon a red flip. The whole progression of the Furtive read just doesn't make sense as in the post before where they state Furtive looks bad on a red Enchant flip, they say Furtive seems towny (they actually say it again in the post talking about reevaluating the read as well). All of the towny stuff literally gets disregarded immediately upon a red Enchant flip that they know is coming.

Outside of this, Infinity's votes this game have been;

39 Frog
90 Klick
285 CSF
462 BBT
1116 Furtive

Given Klick is very likely town, and I know I am town (I understand this is dubious for other people) then Infinity's voting history this game is absolutely awful. Their move from CSF to me was bad (explanation didn't add up to much either) and their interactions with Dunn (or lack there of) points to them being informed with each other and reciprocating a complete lack of interest in each other as well.

Add into this Dunn's 'low read' on both Infinity and Frog and the fact Dunn was trapped into an Infinity vote if he moved off Frog, then that explains his immediate doubt and push on Frog based on his claim (however good the posting may have been). Ultimately, it just showed a lack of awareness about the set-up from Frog. Dunn couldn't afford to move off Frog because he would have had to push Infinity, which he clearly avoided doing.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think furtive is probably town
Talk about everything else later

What was this Aisa?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aisa, that's all I ask. Take a closer look at Infinity, I think they're being town read for theory posting and talking about town reads which is easy for scum to do.

The difficult part is faking scum reads and Infinity doesn't seem to do so well in that area.

I'm VT

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That mass claim really helped haha.

Can we elim Infinity now?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not good at set-up stuff, do we definitely have a SK?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah, shit.

Well, my bet for SK is Gamma.

I would also like to respectfully request that SK kills me so I don't have to deal with trying to find you. Many thanks.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The difficult part is faking scum reads and Infinity doesn't seem to do so well in that area.

this is a. not true and b. i don't have many scumreads as town normally

If a) is not true, let's talk about your scum reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, it is. It's more difficult to state a read you know is untrue and provide reasoning than it is to provide reasoning on a read you know to be true. That's just common sense.

Who is scum Infinity?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm utterly gobsmacked that I am the only person voting Infinity.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CSF, why aren't you voting?

Who is your top scum read?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Elim Infinity

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Look how early Lucian was on Enchant wagon.

We really think he can be scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Interesting theory

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What made you think it could be Lucian?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Pile votes on Infinity please

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Infinity is scum not doctor?

So, can we not elim me?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aisa probably isn't scum. Infiniity very likely is.

If we're aiming for SK it's most likely Gamma

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I agree that is seems strange for scum to claim Doc. Don't really see a benefit to it

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If we're going SK I'll vote Gamma.

Otherwise, I'm not moving off of Infinity.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

They're not very likely to be legit though

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Let's vote out scum because it's town's win con, yeah?

Then we can go from there. SK could likely just no kill and then the plan is out the window, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, mislimming town is bad, no? Unless you're saying you're prolific at SK hunting (which you're clearly not because you're advocating for my elim)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

This ^^^

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How can scum!Infinity hit scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can someone tell me the letters for set up? Phone posting so can't look at it properly.

As I understand it though we would have to have at least DDDDMVxxx for the claims to be correct? DDDD seems hella unlikely

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Only 1 kill from scum/SK each night is strange.

I wonder if scum have hit the BP on SK as opposed to doc protecting a kill? Aisa said she protected Lucian and CSF? I guess I could see Lucian being shot N1 but I don't see CSF being targeted N2

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Gamma's play looks very SK-like if that's a thing? Kind of floating by in the game without doing much pushing or drawing too much attention?