Datisi's Café [game over!]

[Roden]

Town PM let's goooo

VOTE: Ydrasse

[Roden]

bc this game doesn't have a postcap and larges can sometimes get kinda miserable without one, if d1 starts to get close to like idk 80-100 pages i suggest we simply yeet someone

who wants to join me on this mission

we need 10 more to sign the pact

VOTE: ausuka

let's do 50

I'm down.

[Roden]

2. using town power roles:

~ during each day, each member of the town may choose how productive they're going to be at work that day, ranging from 0% to 100%.
~ if they do not submit anything, they will default to 100% productivity.
~ at the start of each night, each town member will gain [100% minus their productivity that day] productivity percentage points.
~ for example, if they were 75% productive on d1, they will gain 25% productivity percentage points at the start of n1.
~ in order to use their power role, they must have the needed number of productivity percentage points, as said in their role pm.
~ productivity percentage points do not have to be used immediately, and they do not disappear if not used immediately.

If I understand this right, if we put in 50% productivity then we'll regain 50% back, keeping us at 100% productivity for the next day. Is there any reason that VTs and anyone with abilities that cost 50% or less shouldn't always put in at least 50%?

[Roden]

Ohhh

Ok that makes sense, my bad

[Roden]

Btw Roden is scum here pretty sure.

Because they didn’t read carefully enough?

Btw I’m rusty since I haven’t played in 4 months, so bear with me.

No, because I've played with Roden enough to know that this isn’t Rodens towngame.
Roden is also not likely to genuinely make the mistake as town.
Beyond that, the contribution is generically a scum one regardless of the above.

Don't really know how to respond to this. I know you do vibe reads, but you've never scum read me correctly by doing that. Besides, any info you may have on me is outdated and doesn't really apply to my playstyle any more, for various reasons I don't really want to get into right now.

My issue is that you're stubborn and very unlikely to change your reads, and will keep pushing based on your initial vibes. I don't know how to engage with you here.

[Roden]

Also claiming that I don't make mistakes about set up info is just...wrong. I don't know what you think scum!me gains from faking a misinterpretation of the rules.

[Roden]

The extra mechanic is not pro-scum. It limits the usability of town PR's, but in a way that's entirely in town's control.

I think a town PR limit that, when surpassed, grants scum up to two extra kills with built in Multitasking is very pro-scum. At least when compared to more typical limiters like modifiers.

[Roden]

I think I agree with Penguin 100% here about set up balances. Feels kinda weird, I'm usually neutral at best with him.

[Roden]

From the last 4ish pages, Titus +Town and PP +town. Everyone choosing to engage and re-engage the 4 scum/5 scum discussion tanking. Also hate the Titus vote timings. (As in the votes on Titus not the slot of Titus voting.)

i think titus is howling about as hard as someone can for less than 24 hours into day 1 but you do you

titus calling me town from vca IS pretty weird

someone will leap to titus's defense sayin she's weird as town which is generally true but kind of evades the task of actually evaluating her

i just don't buy a post like 221

I wouldn't say she's necessarily weird as town, I'd describe her more as rabid and paranoid. Like either very hot or very cold with her read accuracy, and when she's cold she stands out a lot more.

I don't think she's scum atm, I feel like she's more likely to town read me (and really any one else who awkwardly stands out) instead of scum reading me. At least early on to build trust.

[Roden]

the accusation of someone being frozen for not posting within a 19 hour window is pretty lulzy


this isn't fucking mafia universe and i'm grateful for that


(this is not implying a read on ircher ftr)

Vibing with this. It's just a reasonable take.

roden has gone missing ever since he stopped getting questioned for the mech mistake stuff

you got any actual input now or are you just here to defend yourself when you get sussed

Not vibing with this though.

I don't think I was gone all that long? I went to bed then went to work when I woke up. And I've been keeping up with the thread and responding to stuff and giving my thoughts. What gave you the impression otherwise?

[Roden]

I don't think Mastina ever responded to me anyway.

[Roden]

who has experience playing with Mr vivax

*raises hand*

He obfuscates his thoughts a lot, I wouldn't call it a gimmick but it definitely sticks out as a playstyle. He's had really solid reads in past games from what I've seen and picks up the slack in the back half of a game.

[Roden]

VOTE: Roden

time to play the game my friend

Uh. Ok.

[Roden]

the accusation of someone being frozen for not posting within a 19 hour window is pretty lulzy


this isn't fucking mafia universe and i'm grateful for that


(this is not implying a read on ircher ftr)

Vibing with this. It's just a reasonable take.

roden has gone missing ever since he stopped getting questioned for the mech mistake stuff

you got any actual input now or are you just here to defend yourself when you get sussed

Not vibing with this though.

I don't think I was gone all that long? I went to bed then went to work when I woke up. And I've been keeping up with the thread and responding to stuff and giving my thoughts. What gave you the impression otherwise?

I think I agree with Penguin 100% here about set up balances. Feels kinda weird, I'm usually neutral at best with him.

funnily enough after calling you out i remember thinking "hm maybe that was a bit hasty" but then straight after with your very next post you proved me right and went straight back to mech talk in 432 lol

Proved you right...? Can you walk me through this one? I don't see the issue with 432.

and your thoughts prior to this recent posting you've just done were all setup/mech related, so there's not really much to 'vibe' with it's just facts

?

Are posts 12 36 and 95 not available in your universe?

[Roden]

although I feel like I wasn't being

THAT

trolly. Like my votes and fake daykill was how I felt and who I thought were scummy so was I really trolling that much? I get that my troll game needs works but I don't think I was being some unreadable void and I think that's kind of an ass stance.

Maybe I should have kept it going just to see who jumped on me or what happened.

If anyone had jumped on you for it I'd likely town read them for it. It was telegraphed enough that scum would consciously avoid mentioning it, imo.

[Roden]

idk Roden, it's an ez thing to hang your hat on. Sure, there are going to call it out but I don't think scum would be immune from riding the Nero train if they felt like I was a viable wagon

I think the chances of a successful wagon would be pretty slim exactly for the reason I gave.

[Roden]

12 is rvs and the others were you defending yourself which was also what I referenced in my original post about you

and 432 had nothing inherently wrong with it it's just you went back to referring to something about setup which I found funny

That's a simplified and not really accurate summary of those posts. You claimed all I talked about was mech, which is factually wrong. It's ok to say you just misremembered my posts.

You seemed to imply 432 had something wrong with it, you said I "proved you right" and you still seem to want to run me up. Talk to me about it.

[Roden]

Wow, that's really annoying. I targeted Peta last night.

[Roden]

VOTE: Titus

Titus has the greatest motivation to kill Peta ASAP despite the scum reads going his way yesterday.

[Roden]

Wow, that's really annoying. I targeted Peta last night.

Pray continue....

I'm a Mailman with a modifier. I sent him a message asking for advice on how to effectively play my role, and let him know I chose him since I believed he would be the most likely person to give solid advice regardless of his own alignment or his read on me.

[Roden]

Wow, that's really annoying. I targeted Peta last night.

Pray continue....

I'm a Mailman with a modifier. I sent him a message asking for advice on how to effectively play my role, and let him know I chose him since I believed he would be the most likely person to give solid advice regardless of his own alignment or his read on me.

Oh and PR name is Flirt

[Roden]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mailman

[Roden]

Titus could have been bussing but you would have to think they were on top of Ircher’s case very aggressively and maybe? It’s possible the Scum decided to take alternative tracks in order to not all get lumped together, but I seriously doubt all of the Scum bailed on Ircher immediately.

Ircher's role was pretty weak, and tbh Ircher gets run up D1 almost every game I play with him regardless of his alignment. I don't think he got hard bussed by his entire team, but I don't think they had much incentive to try to save him either. Best play for scum is for them to avoid being associated with Ircher at all IMO.

[Roden]

hi uh I would like to as a PSA reminder that using full productivity is an useful night action and something every PR should consider especially if they kinda suck thanks

Mailman does seem insanely useless.....Roden, why bother?

It's tiered, if I don't use my modifier it only costs 5%. That's the version I went with since I didn't find the modifier useful last night.

[Roden]

Wow, that's really annoying. I targeted Peta last night.

Pray continue....

I'm a Mailman with a modifier. I sent him a message asking for advice on how to effectively play my role, and let him know I chose him since I believed he would be the most likely person to give solid advice regardless of his own alignment or his read on me.

Btw there's actually TWO reasons for why I think that this is a scumclaim from Roden, maybe 3.
jjh can probably get 1-2 of them, small outside chance of all 3.

But,
VOTE: Roden

Roden is effectively confscum with that claim.

I don’t see myself ever pivoting off of Roden.

Roden was already scum by play to me, but that claim was 200% damning in ways that Roden couldn't even know.

If we wanna go 2 for 2 on scum eliminations, y'all should be voting for Roden today.

Btw there's actually TWO reasons for why I think that this is a scumclaim from Roden, maybe 3.

It's independently a pretty sketchy claim. But do you think scum would have Ircher's role and that?

Explicitly so, yes, for multiple reasons.

Feel free to state these reasons, thanks.

[Roden]

@Roden yeah maybe. But you also have to make a decision as Scum. Either you push Ircher right then and there about a potential slip that Ircher may be able to get away from (I didn’t find the “slip” killer, the freezing is what did Ircher in), or you hold off, and you position yourself around the flip that started seeming more and more inevitable as the day went on. Look at Vivax’s play and tell me that’s not what you see.

Look Vivax could have just been wrong and Town that’s always possible. But they were definitely the one player I thought was the Scummiest yesterday. It’s hard for me to look away right now.

I think any scum who joined the Ircher wagon would do so nonchalantly, the slip would've panicked the scum team and they wouldn't be sure whether or not Ircher could get away with it in the moment. The pile up happened so quickly that scum would most likely feel too self-conscious to make a big deal out of it or make a hard push, in fear of coming off as informed.

If I had to guess, I'd say two scum on wagon, one scum off.

[Roden]

I think at least 1 of Mastina's points relates to the specific implementation of the role, so it would be wise for you to state exactly what mailman means in the context of this game

I just send a message to someone and they are told that it came from me, that's pretty much it. It isn't called Mailman, the actual name is Flirt, but it's essentially just the same as the Mailman role.

[Roden]

@Roden yeah maybe. But you also have to make a decision as Scum. Either you push Ircher right then and there about a potential slip that Ircher may be able to get away from (I didn’t find the “slip” killer, the freezing is what did Ircher in), or you hold off, and you position yourself around the flip that started seeming more and more inevitable as the day went on. Look at Vivax’s play and tell me that’s not what you see.

Look Vivax could have just been wrong and Town that’s always possible. But they were definitely the one player I thought was the Scummiest yesterday. It’s hard for me to look away right now.

I think any scum who joined the Ircher wagon would do so nonchalantly, the slip would've panicked the scum team and they wouldn't be sure whether or not Ircher could get away with it in the moment. The pile up happened so quickly that scum would most likely feel too self-conscious to make a big deal out of it or make a hard push, in fear of coming off as informed.

If I had to guess, I'd say two scum on wagon, one scum off.

This does not at all square with your vote on Titus. Like not the least bit. Do you not see the inconsistency? Why aren’t you pressuring RCEnigma then?

VOTE: Titus

Titus has the greatest motivation to kill Peta ASAP despite the scum reads going his way yesterday.

[Roden]

@Vivax:

I'd prefer if you shot me over Luke tonight so that Mastina can't hide behind her fake scum read on me all game.

[Roden]

I think at least 1 of Mastina's points relates to the specific implementation of the role, so it would be wise for you to state exactly what mailman means in the context of this game

I just send a message to someone and they are told that it came from me, that's pretty much it. It isn't called Mailman, the actual name is Flirt, but it's essentially just the same as the Mailman role.

How were you expecting to get an answer on how best to use your role?

I left it up to Peta on whether he openly addressed it or not.

[Roden]

You’re using the NK to justify your vote, which is always suspect (it’s like you haven’t even considered that Scum make kills to confuse / frame the Town). But the single most important way you’re pointing to for identifying Scum in the game from day play conflicts directly with that vote. The fact that you’re not even acknowledging that is bizarre.

I'm voting Titus because it's a read on how she plays the game as scum. She kills threats and stays low key. I can scum read her independently of how I think the scum team played around Ircher's slip. If you think that's a scummy thought process then you're gonna have to explain why because I don't get it.

[Roden]

@Vivax:

I'd prefer if you shot me over Luke tonight so that Mastina can't hide behind her fake scum read on me all game.

What?

Why would Mastinas read on either of us matter for his vig kill, and in case you missed it I am her second strongest scum read, so that seems to be of little difference lol

Because I think you're town and a bigger asset for town than I am going forward. I also want to take the wind out of her sails with my flip without wasting a Day phase vote.

Yeah I was hoping for some elaboration without specifically asking for elaboration as I was in fact fully aware of that post but oh well

What else did you want to know?

@Roden yeah maybe. But you also have to make a decision as Scum. Either you push Ircher right then and there about a potential slip that Ircher may be able to get away from (I didn’t find the “slip” killer, the freezing is what did Ircher in), or you hold off, and you position yourself around the flip that started seeming more and more inevitable as the day went on. Look at Vivax’s play and tell me that’s not what you see.

Look Vivax could have just been wrong and Town that’s always possible. But they were definitely the one player I thought was the Scummiest yesterday. It’s hard for me to look away right now.

I think any scum who joined the Ircher wagon would do so nonchalantly, the slip would've panicked the scum team and they wouldn't be sure whether or not Ircher could get away with it in the moment. The pile up happened so quickly that scum would most likely feel too self-conscious to make a big deal out of it or make a hard push, in fear of coming off as informed.

If I had to guess, I'd say two scum on wagon, one scum off.

Interesting line of thought.

What is your take on Klick right now

They certainly exist in this game, but I don't feel particularly strong about them one way or the other. Nothing really sticks out as scummy, there were a couple posts I liked though. I can run through their ISO really quick to find them.

[Roden]

Explicitly so, yes, for multiple reasons.

Share with the class?

-General setup design. Don't assume scum won't have two roles of similar nature or sometimes you will be wrong.
-A traffic analyst flipped. A percentage of scum having communication built into their actual role makes the guilties there more deniable, and makes the TA be more of an inno-hunting role.

Where's the scum power if two of them have useless roles?

[Roden]

Explicitly so, yes, for multiple reasons.

Share with the class?

-General setup design. Don't assume scum won't have two roles of similar nature or sometimes you will be wrong.
-A traffic analyst flipped. A percentage of scum having communication built into their actual role makes the guilties there more deniable, and makes the TA be more of an inno-hunting role.

Where's the scum power if two of them have useless roles?

~ if the average is lower than 75% and not lower than 50%, the mafia gets one extra kill to use that night.
~ if the average is lower than 50% and not lower than 25%, the mafia gets two extra kills to use that night.
~ if the average is lower than 25%, the mafia gets three extra kills to use that night.

Where were you when I made the same case earlier?

The extra mechanic is not pro-scum. It limits the usability of town PR's, but in a way that's entirely in town's control.

I think a town PR limit that, when surpassed, grants scum up to two extra kills with built in Multitasking is very pro-scum. At least when compared to more typical limiters like modifiers.

[Roden]

You’re using the NK to justify your vote, which is always suspect (it’s like you haven’t even considered that Scum make kills to confuse / frame the Town). But the single most important way you’re pointing to for identifying Scum in the game from day play conflicts directly with that vote. The fact that you’re not even acknowledging that is bizarre.

I'm voting Titus because it's a read on how she plays the game as scum. She kills threats and stays low key. I can scum read her independently of how I think the scum team played around Ircher's slip. If you think that's a scummy thought process then you're gonna have to explain why because I don't get it.

I didn’t call it Scummy I called it odd.

Imagine I said that I think Scum went out of their way to defend Ircher. And then I voted Titus. And when you asked me why, I made the NK argument you made. I would fully expect for you to ask me well, Titus actively attacked Ircher the entire time. Doesn’t that give you pause? Wouldn’t that contradict what you’re saying is the main reason to suspect someone to be Scum? That’s more where I’m coming from. Not being consistent with your thought process isn’t Scum indicative actually. At least I don’t think so.

The thing is that I wouldn't question you on that. I don't think it's odd to have conflicting scum reads, or have a specific scum read as an exception to how one thinks scum would play.

And I figured you saw the thought process as scummy because you were voting me. I don't think you voted me just because you think I'm odd.

[Roden]

@JJH

Spoiler: Klick posts that I vibed with

Nero just to be very explicit

The way you're playing is making it very difficult to get a read on you

Not necessarily saying you need to stop! but understand that that's happening

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

The argument is that due to the math involved this post assumes that we're in a 17-4 setup, and that that's not an intuitive thing to assume.

Tangentially, I'd be -very- surprised if the setup were 16:5

Okay maybe not -very- surprised, but like, it doesn't feel right

I don't really know why Nero is so fixated on everyone scumreading him because I think exactly no one has expressed a scumread on him

i don't really get the mindset behind "hammer or move on" followed by "i want to vote RCE but don't want to dampen ircher wagon"

can you explain that more

specifically about the "or move on"

Ircher looks like he might get eliminated here
I am satisfied with that outcome

It also looks possible that the wagon will dissolve and other wagons will form
I'm not as happy with that outcome because I think Ircher is a better elimination than we would likely get if things were to dissolve. But it is an acceptable outcome and one we can work to our advantage

What I DON'T want is 'let's leave Ircher at L-2 for a few days while we don't do other things and

then

get cold feet and vote elsewhere' (which does commonly happen)
Because the stagnation would kill momentum in what's currently an active and fun and highly-Klick-motivating game

[Roden]

You’re using the NK to justify your vote, which is always suspect (it’s like you haven’t even considered that Scum make kills to confuse / frame the Town). But the single most important way you’re pointing to for identifying Scum in the game from day play conflicts directly with that vote. The fact that you’re not even acknowledging that is bizarre.

I'm voting Titus because it's a read on how she plays the game as scum. She kills threats and stays low key. I can scum read her independently of how I think the scum team played around Ircher's slip. If you think that's a scummy thought process then you're gonna have to explain why because I don't get it.

I didn’t call it Scummy I called it odd.

Imagine I said that I think Scum went out of their way to defend Ircher. And then I voted Titus. And when you asked me why, I made the NK argument you made. I would fully expect for you to ask me well, Titus actively attacked Ircher the entire time. Doesn’t that give you pause? Wouldn’t that contradict what you’re saying is the main reason to suspect someone to be Scum? That’s more where I’m coming from. Not being consistent with your thought process isn’t Scum indicative actually. At least I don’t think so.

The thing is that I wouldn't question you on that. I don't think it's odd to have conflicting scum reads, or have a specific scum read as an exception to how one thinks scum would play.

And I figured you saw the thought process as scummy because you were voting me. I don't think you voted me just because you think I'm odd.

I was trying to put a vote down based on what someone who seems to have a better grasp on the game is voting (I think mastina is Town?). I haven’t actually myself figured out who I think is most likely to be Scum.

I haven’t been historically able to read Titus properly. I think your points aren’t totally silly. I think if the Scum had two shots, shooting petapan who seemed to have a magnifying glass aimed at Titus makes a lot of sense.

Also, what do you make of 468 through 470 from Uncrowned? This is why I think it’s possible they’re Scum (if I had to summarize it).

I think it's a little out of place for them to suggest that because Ircher's wagon didn't hit a lull that it implies it wasn't a mis-elim wagon, when there wasn't really a chance for it to hit a lull in the first place. The focus on the Ydrasse wagon also feels weird, it was obvious the votes were just leftover from RVS. The vote on me is just kind of whatever though, like I thought it was weird when it happened since they seemed confident that Ircher was scum, and pressuring a low activity player is baseline scum play. But they aren't on my radar atm.

[Roden]

Feel free to state these reasons, thanks.

Well for a start.

firing

Ircher [11]:

mastina, Lukewarm, Titus, furtiveglance, Ausuka, RCEnigma, Klick, BlueBloodedToffee, Vivax, PenguinPower, petapan

[HAMMER]

Ydrasse [2]:

Roden, Nero Cain

There is a big major issue with this.

But beyond that, ~role reasons~ (multiple), ~setup reasons~ (multiple), and play.

This...didn't explain anything? Like at all.

[Roden]

Spoiler:

[Roden]

For what it's worth Vivax, I have been paying attention to your argument against Luke. I just think you're TvT.

[Roden]

I'm never gonna understand why I'm always like this as town or what I'm doing wrong

The modifier makes the person that I message able message me back the next night for free. That's it, there's nothing else to claim.

[Roden]

Why did you decide to use this role?

...What? Why does anyone ever use a role?

[Roden]

ok yeah you have to be scum

public announcer

welcome,

Ircher

! you are a

public announcer

, aligned with

the inspectors

!

it turned out that the experience from your previous "career" of running your own vlog is actually coming in handy.

factional abilities:

you are a member of the inspectors, along with

|

[REDACTED]

|

. you may talk with your living teammates in the inspectors private topic, located

|

[REDACTED]

|

. you may talk there at any time as long as you are alive. once every night, a living member of the inspectors may submit a factional action of attempting to get a player fired.

night abilities:

public service announcement

- during the night, use this ability. assuming no interference with your action, the mod will publicly post an anonymous message (of your choosing) at daystart.

win condition:

you win once all threats to

the inspectors

have been fired, or nothing can prevent this from occurring, and at least one member of

the inspectors

is still in the game.

the main thread is here. please confirm by replying to this pm with your role name, or by posting in your pt.

Roden is talking as if his role PM looks something like this

If it did, I mean, why not use your ability?

Can you just tell me what you're actually accusing me of here

Because right now you're having a conversation but it's not with me

[Roden]

Why did you decide to use this role?

...What? Why does anyone ever use a role?

Could you elaborate on the full percentage costs including the extra for the reply thing?

I already did........

[Roden]

Can you just tell me what you're actually accusing me of here

Because right now you're having a conversation but it's not with me

She is saying that your role is bad, and any townie would have chosen to not use their ability.

And since you used your ability, you must be scum.

Why...do I bring up my role or how useless it is then? Like, willingly, as scum, unprompted?

[Roden]

Can you just tell me what you're actually accusing me of here

Because right now you're having a conversation but it's not with me

She is saying that your role is bad, and any townie would have chosen to not use their ability.

And since you used your ability, you must be scum.

Why...do I bring up my role or how useless it is then? Like, willingly, as scum, unprompted?

Ok but why did you bring it up?

Because I targeted someone who died and you literally asked me to clarify?

[Roden]

If I got seen by a Tracker or Watcher it's a better play for town to just say I targeted someone who died than to let a town PR potentially out themself with a false guilty

[Roden]

Ausuka I don't believe that you think -5% out of 1700% actually matters

If you did you would've lost your mind the moment Mastina said she would do 0% productivity

[Roden]

Can you just tell me what you're actually accusing me of here

Because right now you're having a conversation but it's not with me

She is saying that your role is bad, and any townie would have chosen to not use their ability.

And since you used your ability, you must be scum.

Why...do I bring up my role or how useless it is then? Like, willingly, as scum, unprompted?

Ok but why did you bring it up?

Because I targeted someone who died and you literally asked me to clarify?

I asked you to clarify, after you already let the cat out of the bag. That doesn't mean I asked you whether or not you had a cat, and to release it if you did have one. Were you planning on Petapan backing you up? Why should they, your role could be mafia.

Why would I think Peta would back me up??

[Roden]

I am hoping she has an extremely good reason for doing so

Scum response

[Roden]

Can you just tell me what you're actually accusing me of here

Because right now you're having a conversation but it's not with me

She is saying that your role is bad, and any townie would have chosen to not use their ability.

And since you used your ability, you must be scum.

Why...do I bring up my role or how useless it is then? Like, willingly, as scum, unprompted?

Ok but why did you bring it up?

Because I targeted someone who died and you literally asked me to clarify?

I asked you to clarify, after you already let the cat out of the bag. That doesn't mean I asked you whether or not you had a cat, and to release it if you did have one. Were you planning on Petapan backing you up? Why should they, your role could be mafia.

Why would I think Peta would back me up??

I thought the implication was that you anticipated some pressure today, saw that the other player who could attest to your role was dead and decided to claim your role.

If I got seen by a Tracker or Watcher it's a better play for town to just say I targeted someone who died than to let a town PR potentially out themself with a false guilty

[Roden]

I am hoping she has an extremely good reason for doing so

Scum response

Lol

-5% is scummy

-100% earns a shrug

That's not a townie thought process

[Roden]

For what its worth Roden, I feel like the way that Ausuka has been questioning you looks townie, even if she is wrong.

I don't think she's questioning me at all. It's busy work with clear intent to get me with a "gotcha" moment without doing anything to actually solve me or try to read me.

[Roden]

I guess it doesn't matter that much but I just fundamentally disagree with this line of thinking. Sure you might not individually make much difference but cumulatively people thinking this way can absolutely give mafia free kills

I understand your point. Running that role at 100% productivity is probably optimal.

But I also don't think that it is unreasonable for him to have come to the conclusion that his own 5% didn't matter because it was so low.

Yeah I mean I'm just voting him because I think he's been scummy now which is also the reason I did it in the first place so

VOTE: Roden

I think this is also a good wagon and would like to see a full claim here

I mean you pretty much said here you just voted me to get a full claim

You never mention me before that vote

[Roden]

I am hoping she has an extremely good reason for doing so

Scum response

Lol

-5% is scummy

-100% earns a shrug

That's not a townie thought process

After I realised you used the 5% version I haven't called it scummy once

I don't understand why you're arguing the logistics of using a 5% ability then.

[Roden]

I mean I haven't been that talkative in general, I do think your d1 was scummy and that was the main reason I voted

The reason you gave for voting me was that you wanted a full claim. You didn't mention anything about your read on me or what you found scummy.

[Roden]

For what its worth Roden, I feel like the way that Ausuka has been questioning you looks townie, even if she is wrong.

I don't think she's questioning me at all. It's busy work with clear intent to get me with a "gotcha" moment without doing anything to actually solve me or try to read me.

I disagree :shrug:

I think that her posts about you make more sense if she is town.

Scum know that you are telling the truth about your percentage points, and as such I don't think that "Roden is posting like his role does not have a percentage point requirement" - is an angle that scum would be as likely to come up with naturally.

So, I think that she is town who thinks that you are scum.

I really don't think it's impossible for scum to fake a reason to scum read someone

[Roden]

I really don't think it's impossible for scum to fake a reason to scum read someone

That is not what I said.

My point is that if she is scum, faking a reason to scum read you, I don't think that that is the reason she would have come up with.

What stops her from doing that?

[Roden]

Titus could have been bussing but you would have to think they were on top of Ircher’s case very aggressively and maybe? It’s possible the Scum decided to take alternative tracks in order to not all get lumped together, but I seriously doubt all of the Scum bailed on Ircher immediately.

Ircher's role was pretty weak, and tbh Ircher gets run up D1 almost every game I play with him regardless of his alignment. I don't think he got hard bussed by his entire team, but I don't think they had much incentive to try to save him either. Best play for scum is for them to avoid being associated with Ircher at all IMO.

Absolutely bullshit. You've seen me play as scum. I almost

never

avoid my partners. I never avoid the major wagons. Ircher being run up every game is an easy thing to defend and I could have easily talked Ircher out of the noose and coached him. Ircher, being a less active poster, would be easy to Cyrano.

You'd be familiar with my scumgame but instead you're trying to push me because I was right and you're scared.

Keep reading, I already addressed my read on you.

[Roden]

Why did you decide to use this role?

...What? Why does anyone ever use a role?

Could you elaborate on the full percentage costs including the extra for the reply thing?

I already did........

I don't see where you did this. Go into full % cost details, please, unless your whole ability is just 5%

I gave you all the information I'm gonna give. I don't understand why you're obsessing over this detail because it literally does not matter; I'm the flip today and that isn't gonna change if I say anything else about it, so you're gonna know the exact details soon enough. Why exactly do you need to know this now even though you know you're getting the info you want in 24 hours or so? How exactly does knowing this right now affect a single thing in this game or help you solve anything? Like you just keep pushing on this and talking mech and doing almost nothing else, stop using me as an excuse to avoid giving content.

[Roden]

If I vote RC it's gonna be clear that I'm just doing it to live, I'll get called scummy for it, and then I just die anyway. Then we get to see twenty Mastina posts calling me 99.452385723% scum and that she definitely has many reasons for why I'm scum. We won't actually

see

the reasons but it's ok for some reason.

[Roden]

Exhibit A lmaoooo

[Roden]

Me trying to self preserve as town in Control literally lost town the game. I'm not doing that again.

[Roden]

Yeah, no. You're not going to change your mind about flipping me just because I tell you whatever it is you want to hear. You've done nothing to actually try to read me, and town!you would have no reason to believe I'm telling you the truth about anything regarding my role if you actually thought I was scum.

[Roden]

It's the blatant dishonesty that really gets me here

[Roden]

Yeah, no. You're not going to change your mind about flipping me just because I tell you whatever it is you want to hear. You've done nothing to actually try to read me, and town!you would have no reason to believe I'm telling you the truth about anything regarding my role if you actually thought I was scum.

Latest feelings on Roden is that a lot of players are happy to vote someone else today/listen to his claim with an open mind. I don't get the refusal to share.

This pretty clearly isn't the case? I'm at E-2 and even people who aren't on my wagon or town read me want me gone. No one's given a serious reason for scum reading me or explained their case. Several people voted me just because it was an easy vote and to get a full claim, then didn't unvote or try to solve else where after I full claimed. I literally did everything that was asked of me and it got me run up, it's kinda bonkers to think otherwise.

The most glaring point here is that people want me to claim productivity costs and that if I do they'll apparently town read me for it. If this was an actual townie thought process that made sense then there should be an outcry to make Mastina and Vivax claim their productivity costs, but there just hasn't been. I'm not claiming anything further for the same common sense reason that they won't.

[Roden]

If you honestly believe knowing my productivity costs would make you town read me, then why aren't going around in a circle asking everyone for their productivity costs? I mean we should believe whatever number people say and take them at their word, right?

[Roden]

That's the point I'm making though. If someone thinks I'm scum then asking for my productivity costs doesn't make sense, because from that person's perspective I'd just be lying. There's nothing to confirm I'm telling the truth and I'd have no reason not to just give the answer that people want to hear the most. That's why I don't believe anyone would suddenly town read me for it, it just isn't a real thought process.

[Roden]

0%

Now town lock me

[Roden]

Are you saying you don't believe me

[Roden]

So it's throwing a temper tantrum to just do what was asked of me

Cool

[Roden]

You popping in to answer was not what I was referencing.

"I won't answer a simple question because you won't fully outline exactly why it matters" despite multiple people, including those that town read you, thought the answer was important gives vibes like you did not know what the "right" answer was.

I am sure that you are going to say that that is not what it is, but you did manage to shoot down my town read on you with it.

I know what the "right" answer is. I told you I knew what the "right" answer is. I explicitly said that the line of questioning did not matter exactly because I know what to say to appease people here. I didn't want to answer because I disagreed with the reasoning and no one gave an explanation that made any sense to me.

I also said you had no reason to believe me, which...is exactly what happened.

[Roden]

And honestly it's really fucked up to say I'm throwing a temper tantrum when I made a conscious effort to not lash out at anyone and kept it solely to talking about the game.

[Roden]

no one gave an explanation that made any sense to me.

Yeah, but how was anyone supposed to say "we want you to tell us all the details on your productivity costs, because we want to know if you have the growing cost consistent with all flipped roles so far?" Without telling potential scum!you exactly what to say?

Luke

Do you seriously think scum!me sits in the scum PT with my scum buddies and none of can manage to rub to scum brain cells together enough to remember to check flipped roles for consistency

[Roden]

I also said you had no reason to believe me, which...is exactly what happened.

Because you said something different than you did initially?

Maybe clear that up?

hi uh I would like to as a PSA reminder that using full productivity is an useful night action and something every PR should consider especially if they kinda suck thanks

Mailman does seem insanely useless.....Roden, why bother?

It's tiered, if I don't use my modifier it only costs 5%. That's the version I went with since I didn't find the modifier useful last night.

Why does this post exist, if it costs you nothing to use the modifier?

Idk, I didn't design my role.

[Roden]

Because if I leave things vague and don't get voted out then scum might think I'm softing a modifier that could actually hurt them, thus giving them a reason to NK me

[Roden]

Look above your post

[Roden]

I'm never gonna understand why I'm always like this as town or what I'm doing wrong

The modifier makes the person that I message able message me back the next night for free. That's it, there's nothing else to claim.

[Roden]

I didn't make you guess anything, you're just not listening to me. I full claimed and that wasn't enough for some reason, people wanted more info than I had to give.

[Roden]

Because if I leave things vague and don't get voted out then scum might think I'm softing a modifier that could actually hurt them, thus giving them a reason to NK me

You...aren't in the place though. Like - that's not the likely outcome at this point.

If he is town, then that was the idea when he did it at the very start of the day before all of the suspicions fell on him.

And then he is being this way because we shot down his ingenious plan by questioning him.

That's not what happened at all, but ok

I was asked to do play more, so I did. I then got run up because people wanted a claim, which I gave, and then I lost investment in the game. Me getting annoyed at people nitpicking me and openly trying to manipulate me into doing what they want when I know I'm dying anyway within the last 24 hours is not a particularly fun or enjoyable experience. Sorry I didn't fake a happy mood for your own comfort.

[Roden]

Interestingly enough, I'm an imperfect human susceptible to my own emotions

[Roden]

Mastina told her to back her up in the scum chat

[Roden]

Mastina told her to back her up in the scum chat

Dude, mastina's not scum. Stop shading her.

Have you actually read the game

[Roden]

Interesting choice of words

"Mastina's not scum" instead of "we're not scum"

[Roden]

Who's voting Mastina?

[Roden]

\
Check Roden's read progression on Lukewarm and fireisredsir.

Especially on D2.

Read progression on Luke: I said he's town

Read progression on Fire:

[Roden]

Are we seriously doing this again

[Roden]

You’re using the NK to justify your vote, which is always suspect (it’s like you haven’t even considered that Scum make kills to confuse / frame the Town). But the single most important way you’re pointing to for identifying Scum in the game from day play conflicts directly with that vote. The fact that you’re not even acknowledging that is bizarre.

I'm voting Titus because it's a read on how she plays the game as scum. She kills threats and stays low key. I can scum read her independently of how I think the scum team played around Ircher's slip. If you think that's a scummy thought process then you're gonna have to explain why because I don't get it.

I didn’t call it Scummy I called it odd.

Imagine I said that I think Scum went out of their way to defend Ircher. And then I voted Titus. And when you asked me why, I made the NK argument you made. I would fully expect for you to ask me well, Titus actively attacked Ircher the entire time. Doesn’t that give you pause? Wouldn’t that contradict what you’re saying is the main reason to suspect someone to be Scum? That’s more where I’m coming from. Not being consistent with your thought process isn’t Scum indicative actually. At least I don’t think so.

The thing is that I wouldn't question you on that. I don't think it's odd to have conflicting scum reads, or have a specific scum read as an exception to how one thinks scum would play.

And I figured you saw the thought process as scummy because you were voting me. I don't think you voted me just because you think I'm odd.

I was trying to put a vote down based on what someone who seems to have a better grasp on the game is voting (I think mastina is Town?). I haven’t actually myself figured out who I think is most likely to be Scum.

I haven’t been historically able to read Titus properly. I think your points aren’t totally silly. I think if the Scum had two shots, shooting petapan who seemed to have a magnifying glass aimed at Titus makes a lot of sense.

Also, what do you make of 468 through 470 from Uncrowned? This is why I think it’s possible they’re Scum (if I had to summarize it).

I think it's a little out of place for them to suggest that because Ircher's wagon didn't hit a lull that it implies it wasn't a mis-elim wagon, when there wasn't really a chance for it to hit a lull in the first place. The focus on the Ydrasse wagon also feels weird, it was obvious the votes were just leftover from RVS. The vote on me is just kind of whatever though, like I thought it was weird when it happened since they seemed confident that Ircher was scum, and pressuring a low activity player is baseline scum play. But they aren't on my radar atm.

I'd made some points about Uncrowned earlier when prompted by Andres and it never really got a response, instead it got buried by all the focus on me and my role and trying to "gotcha" me. They were insistent on trying to get me to play, but once my activity and content sky rocketed they had nothing to say and instead just blankly voted me. Why ask me to do more if you had no intention of engaging with me? Why didn't they or anyone else have anything to say about my read?

What really stands out is that Uncrowned criticized my posts D1 for being too focused on mech despite only making two mech-focused posts. But then today there has been pages upon pages dedicated only to discussing mech and voting people based on mech. Yet Uncrowned has had nothing to say about it, and instead supported a wagon based on mech.

[Roden]

Mastina can you link a game where you correctly scum read me? If you can't case me this game then I assume it's a meta read, which in that case you should have a game to refer to here that would explain the confidence in your read.

[Roden]

Could you not step around the question

[Roden]

I'd made some points about Uncrowned earlier when prompted by Andres and it never really got a response, instead it got buried by all the focus on me and my role and trying to "gotcha" me. They were insistent on trying to get me to play, but once my activity and content sky rocketed they had nothing to say and instead just blankly voted me. Why ask me to do more if you had no intention of engaging with me? Why didn't they or anyone else have anything to say about my read?

What really stands out is that Uncrowned criticized my posts D1 for being too focused on mech despite only making two mech-focused posts. But then today there has been pages upon pages dedicated only to discussing mech and voting people based on mech. Yet Uncrowned has had nothing to say about it, and instead supported a wagon based on mech.

bro

if i'm not mistaken, this first part is either a bold faced lie or you just didn't see my response to you

i was the last one to respond in our 'interaction' and you said nothing and i'm pretty sure i'll be able to find it and quote it after this

also i criticised multiple d1 mech talk people because i don't think it really gets us anywhere. d2 the mech talk has been what, about claims? that's a lot more reasonable given game state and doesn't just seem like scum trying to find something to do on d1. context matters and you're ignoring it

?

I asked you to explain your scum read on me and you answered it. Then the day ended. There wasn't much for me to respond to and you made it clear that you didn't like that I had been responding to posts to defend myself. I don't think it makes sense to get upset when I defend myself and then get mad then I didn't.

It's a lack of engagement on your part because you scum read me D1, not the other way around. The onus is on you at that point because you made it clear you wanted to case me D2, but you just never did. You had nothing to say until I was already getting run up, and even then you didn't give a perspective or a read or really anything at all. Yet you seem to be implying I should have preemptively defended myself before you actually cased me. Like why would I do that? As any alignment?

You being completely dismissive and contradictory about mech talk and your standards around it is just all around scummy here.

[Roden]

I also think it's telling that you put me at E-1 and weren't afraid at all that I would self-hammer here as scum to end the day early and deny town more conversation time.

[Roden]

Final reads are (Uncrowned/Titus/Mastina/Ausuka) contains at least two scum.

Mastina knows my meta and should know I'm town here, this isn't BoP either because she understands my mind set and knows how to emotionally set me off and can inform the rest of her scum team how to do so.

Titus has done literally nothing and it's in her scum meta to try to get town read through AtE (the drunk posting).

Ausuka is still scummy from before for retroactively scum reading me when I pointed out the contradiction in her vote.

[Roden]

Never vote Vivax or Luke

[Roden]

Don't buy whatever bullshit Mastina tries to spin tomorrow, please

[Roden]

Mastina 100% understands why I would be demoralized because she has straight explained and defended me when I've gotten like this before when we were both town in GnG

[Roden]

You've yet to explain why or how

[Roden]

Why are you so desperate to discredit someone you think will flip scum and has no sway or power in the game?

Like you just get town spewed if I flip red, right?

[Roden]

Why are you so desperate to discredit someone you think will flip scum and has no sway or power in the game?

Like you just get town spewed if I flip red, right?

Though you could do a readslist or something
If you're scum, remember to go into anti-spew and post the opposite of the actual alignments.
Also remember to troll your browser on the regular so it trolls you back. It's really conscious already.

I gave a final reads list.

[Roden]

GG and thanks for modding, the game and flavor was fun.

I did see Koba say "rip Karen" when Furtive first got ran up and the SK wasn't confirmed yet. When Penguin's N5 Track showed Furtive visit Fire, it made that comment make a lot more sense lol.

[Roden]

Ydrasse catching Titus' Mason lie was funny

[Roden]

Gave it some thought and decided to submit a shiny Not_Mafia cosplay for my avatar pick