Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[Thestatusquo]

I'm never going to be the kind of guy who puts together a strong scum case.

So don't hold your breath waiting for that.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm never going to be the kind of guy who puts together a strong scum case.

So don't hold your breath waiting for that.

idc about scum cases, i just wanna know why you suspect fire other than "something ain't right lol"

That's about the extent of it, and if I'm being super serious, my scum reading is always just kind of like this where I struggle to articulate exactly what it is that makes me think someone's scum. Sometimes I'm able to find good post-hoc justification for that feeling and sometimes I'm not.

[Thestatusquo]

I will say that I'm not really super motivated to try, because there seem to be 3 or 4 people in this game who seem to be trying to read everything I say in the least favorable light and I don't think I have the ability to actually get my way this game so I'm not really inclined to put much effort into it. Eventually you folks who keep doubtcasting everything I'm saying will flip me and then maybe you'll go back and reevaluate my reads and see that I was right about gamma and hey maybe I was right about other things as well.

I still feel I'm clearly not going to endgame here so I'm just saying what I think and waiting to get flipped still.

[Thestatusquo]

you thought ydrasse's 'weird vig takes' were town indicative at the time?

I am genuinely curious what changed here because originally you commented that ydrasse's reaction around this time was pretty towny and now it's a reason to throw her into the PoE?

because I'm post hoc trying to figure out why they're scum in my mind and just saying weird shit I remember. Nothing has changed except my proximity to the reaction.

[Thestatusquo]

you thought ydrasse's 'weird vig takes' were town indicative at the time?

I am genuinely curious what changed here because originally you commented that ydrasse's reaction around this time was pretty towny and now it's a reason to throw her into the PoE?

because I'm post hoc trying to figure out why they're scum in my mind and just saying weird shit I remember. Nothing has changed except my proximity to the reaction.

I think there were also two distinct parts of the vig reaction and the immediate one was townie and the followup wasn't but I'm not going to go back and check.

[Thestatusquo]

If I were to just kingmaker the flips in this game

Fireisred
ydrasse
deas
something smart
mena
dannflor? I guess?

in that order.

[Thestatusquo]

Its also incredibly funny to me that people are taking my townie reticence on MT when tons of people who had told me the slot that was town when I was pushing it were now happy to vote them, which I would never fucking have if I were scum bussing my partner, is somehow scum indicative.

I think that point is almost comically bad. But people keep saying it and eventually that makes it true in a game of mafia.

[Thestatusquo]

If I'm bussing my partner I'm never going waffle at the end. The claim that somehow I was simultaneously coming into the game with the direct plan of bussing my partner but trying to drag my feet at the end to try to save them is just....??????????????

[Thestatusquo]

Its also incredibly funny to me that people are taking my townie reticence on MT when tons of people who had told me the slot that was town when I was pushing it were now happy to vote them, which I would never fucking have if I were scum bussing my partner, is somehow scum indicative.

I think that point is almost comically bad. But people keep saying it and eventually that makes it true in a game of mafia.

who is saying this?? and what about? the unvote of tweet when she was at y-1??

i said that 5328 and 5339 were scummy bc they were, don't careeeeee

No, they're not.

[Thestatusquo]

I actually kind of agree with both datisi and guiltylion here and I'm not sure how to parse that.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: Fireisred

[Thestatusquo]

@scamper what would it take for you to get reinvested in this game.

[Thestatusquo]

@scamper what would it take for you to get reinvested in this game.

i am invested, i've just been a bit busy so i've been in observer mode for a bit. im just not sure i have any startling insights to share at this juncture

Fair enough. I think the game is better when you're a thread presence is all.

[Thestatusquo]

i appreciate my emotions being validated over ausuka’s but i don’t find that really exonerating for the slot

it's because I've secretly resented ausuka for the last 3 years bc she modded my first ever game on mafiascum(dot)net and failed to warn me that I would be trapped here thereafter

VOTE: Menalque

that is a hardclaim, btw

If the word hardclaim ever meant anything, it no longer does

fb was lowkey nowhere near excited enough about the game (esp in a Pl that he likes and knows people in) to be scum, it's just a couple of jokes and a lot of bland and then I assume he repped out

I've seen him in scum games and I'm pretty sure that after my first hiatus he was scum in a game that skitter and S_S (and lowkey maybe you?) were also in, and while I think town won I think he was convincingly a lot more engaged for a long time than he normally is as town

oh shit yes i was there, that's right

I do not know firebringer and if this is a meta tell people actually use I feel like a list of 'people firebringer knows' would be very helpful

Re: 5814; I see where you're coming from here but like idk, when I was looking through that ISO it didn't come off as distancing to me at all? At least not on Gamma's end. I think specifically discussing Gamma-VP interactions comes off as not s/s. I think the proxy reads thing being so experimental is, like, slightly +town because in general I think you want to be trying shiny new scumhunting techniques in town games. I agree 2116 doesn't look much like a buddy post.

I think the point about frog not considering my relly read is pretty good and I want to go back and review the context around that

Bold of you to assume there's only one vig.

HMM.

:thinkign:

pedit: currently fire and I do not think shea should be in the pool

I've played with firebringer a ton. I kind of think that the "enthusiasm" thing is kind of overblown. I think he's very capable of playing an enthusiastic town game.

[Thestatusquo]

And yeah my conclusion to that frogster dive was basically I didnt really think frogster was scum despite a couple outwardly ehhh things. So it kind of sounds like we just agree on frogster.

[Thestatusquo]

and 7 to no eliminate

Oh hey that's interesting

I think I was the first to pioneer that rule like a decade ago! NE just needs enough to make a majority impossible.

[Thestatusquo]

ime firebringer's enthusiasm has more to do with player list and just general vibes per game than anything else

I think he'd be sad if he got a scum team he didn't vibe with

Well firebringer and I have a long history of really disliking each other and we rolled scum together in Yggdrasi and I don't really remember that game enough to say if I felt he was enthusiastic or not. He ended up replacing out and that game had some huge structural issues which sapped the motivation of the whole scum team so I'm not sure if I want to go back and relive it tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

What's an example of what scum!S_S would suggest for Tweet to claim?

Unsure, it would depend on the roles of the team and how exactly I felt the team was positioned.

An investigative role of some kind would probably be more likely allowed to survive; perhaps a tracker with a random "went nowhere" result on a townie N1. If they contradict it, hey we outed a PR; if not, hey our claim is backed up. Plus, if she dies anyway, it would create some WIFOM over whether she claimed a result on a partner.

Depending on partner positioning on the wagon, VT is also a good option. A VT claim pulled off well with a "last will"-ish post could convince people that she's not playing survivalistically enough to be scum.

I kind of think this post is pretty townie. I don't think scum S_S would tell MT to claim something investigative with scamper prettttty strongly hinting that they were an investigative of some kind.

The fact that this came out of him in this thought experiment to me kind of implies to me that this isn't something he's thought through in detail before and it feels pretty unlikely to be faked.

[Thestatusquo]

deas buddy can i get A Readslist(tm) from you

it can be naked that's ok i just wanna see where your head is at

TOWN: Datisi, scamper, cat, Nero
town: Ausuka, Dannflor, fireisred, GuiltyLion, Menalque
Currently considering as possible scum (this is dynamic and changes depending on the mood): Ydrasse, SS, fireisred, TSQ, Frogster

You don't find it concerning that you have me in a tier with literally the 4 people I find suspicious.

If I'm scum who are my buddies in this world exactly?

[Thestatusquo]

*find/have found suspicious today.

[Thestatusquo]

Like this world requires me to come in bus my buddy, and then try to also bus whatever buddies you think I might have?

It doesn't seem like you're thinking very hard about where I fit into the game state.

[Thestatusquo]

Nope, that's not fair.

[Thestatusquo]

Holding someone to the standard of never having shifting preferences and fluid reads or its a reason to scum read them is the opposite of fair actually.

[Thestatusquo]

"WOW HOLY SHIT HE PREFERS TO VOTE THE PERSON HE THINKS IS SCUM OVER THE CONSENSUS PERSON THAT IS IN HIS POE BECAUSE HE DOESNT TOWN READ THEM! THAT MEANS HE'S SCUM!"

"I AM VERY INTELLIGENT! AND I AM BEING VERY FAIR AND REASONABLE!"

[Thestatusquo]

Because that's not how I play this game. I try to vote the people I think are scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Because I don't play the game by just making a poe and not caring because I can be wrong? So I'd rather vote people I think are actually scum over people that I just think are ???

I've seen a lot of games lost because people are like oh we just flip these people and then we win and guess what the first 3 flipped arent scum and they lose.

[Thestatusquo]

...Being in a POE is not the same as being scum?

It just means I am not town reading them.

[Thestatusquo]

If you put a gun to my head and ask me what color SS flips I would say green. Same with mena.

But that doesn't mean I town read them.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm pretty sure fire is way likely to flip red and I'm not going to be strongarmed into voting a worse wagon.

[Thestatusquo]

I think its at like 6-7.

Hard to say without vote counts.

[Thestatusquo]

The day doesn't have to be between mena and ss. I hate false dichotomy. We could actually scum hunt instead of...whatever it is we're doing here?

[Thestatusquo]

We pushed multiple people to a claim yesterday and eliminated none of them.

[Thestatusquo]

Thats lazy.

[Thestatusquo]

My thought is that there's not really anyone interesting in disrupting this game state right now besides me and to a lesser extent ausuka so it feels to me like the scum are probably ok with where the day is at or we'd be seeing at least some sort of countering happening in other places and we don't really at all. It's another reason I'm not to stoked on the default pressure from the start of the day on these two slots just going through.

[Thestatusquo]

The day doesn't have to be between mena and ss. I hate false dichotomy. We could actually scum hunt instead of...whatever it is we're doing here?

Shea do you TR Mena and S_S?

I have been very clear on how I feel about Mena and S_S. I suggest you read my posts.

[Thestatusquo]

for one thing I don't think its remotely true to say something_smart is contentless, but for another thing I'd rather eliminate scum than just vote out people who don't talk as much.

[Thestatusquo]

Seems like you'll have no problem getting a lim on one of them anyway so if they flip green tomorrow you can say I was white knighting and if they flip red you can say I was refusing to lim my buddy so its a win win for you regardless here.

[Thestatusquo]

I think that's probably fair. It still bothers me though.

If I had to make a solvey team guess it would probably be like {deas, fireisred} and if there's a third someone like {GL, Dann or ydrasse}

I can't get over the fact that I just dont think either of these slots are scum deep down.

[Thestatusquo]

The day doesn't have to be between mena and ss. I hate false dichotomy. We could actually scum hunt instead of...whatever it is we're doing here?

Shea do you TR Mena and S_S?

I have been very clear on how I feel about Mena and S_S. I suggest you read my posts.

Based on your behavior I'm deducing that you TR both of them and if that's true then that take is approaching BoP range FMPOV.

Luckily you don't have to base it on my behavior, you can base it directly on the words I said about it when I had a back on forth on this exact subject with nero like a page and a half ago.

Like I said, maybe try reading the damn posts.

[Thestatusquo]

I mean by the strictest definition of the term "town read" I guess I do.

I think S_S is probably more likely to be town than not.

I'm less sure on Mena and probably would move over there towards the end of the day if my vote was needed but I see no reason why that would have to happen immediately when theres plenty of time for more people to realize fire is scum.

What's the rush, exactly?

[Thestatusquo]

But even if redfire we're scum there's still 1/2 more

Literally just suggested a team solve my guy.

[Thestatusquo]

Which one do you really think is town?

[Thestatusquo]

Which one do you really think is town?

What does one of them have to be town. Assuming this about mena/ss

Fun fact, if something doesn't seem to apply to you, you can probably just go ahead and assume I wasn't talking to you? I was directly responding to the last post dannflor made where he said that he "really thought that slot was town" after saying 2 names.

[Thestatusquo]

I do feel deep down S_S might be town

even though I have them listed at the bottom of my PoE

part of it is that I've been fooled by them so many times before because they play rather unintuitively as scum. but there have been quite a few moments that have given me pause. still I think my skill at reading them is very bad so I've been largely fine with them being a possible lim. Mena is someone who I see flipping scum more often.

but if my gut gut feelings are right then there is at least one more still hiding (and I also don't think they are scum together that seems rlly unlikely) which means I'm open to exploring other optiosn today

but I feel like I need more to latch onto in order to do that and I'm having trouble figuring out where to start with slots like fire or deasvail or whatever

Also like...I cleared CSF because I felt like the reaction to my test when she came in thread was good but she's pretty much done fuck all today and that "Did S_S really just come back in the thread after x!" post with a vote when S_S has posted in this thread a HELL of a lot more than she has makes me wonder if that clear was wrong.

[Thestatusquo]

CSF is a confirmed killing role

scum vig does not exist in normals

so either she is a town vig or some sort of gated serial killer? but SS told me to go to tin foil jail for that one

It is midnight and my brain is melting.

You are correct. Just goes to show that theres no reason lurkers have to be scum IG.

[Thestatusquo]

That would be funny, but I think if that is the case one would probably be bussing the other.

[Thestatusquo]

Which points are those?

[Thestatusquo]

So your point is essentially "Why am I scummy?"

I had a devil of a time getting nero to answer a similar question about me so I suspect you won't have much luck. He'll probably just tell you that the previous owner of your slot had tea with a dirty scum fuck in the 60s and for that you are forever dead to him.

[Thestatusquo]

And then spend 15 pages complaining about how you said he had no reason with with the wounded tone of a cat that has had its tail stepped on.

[Thestatusquo]

It does bother me that S_S is doing nothing, yes. But it bothers me every time I play with S_S, and he's town the majority of those games so I fail to see why I should think of it as a reason to scum read him.

[Thestatusquo]

*play with/mod.

[Thestatusquo]

On some level I just don't understand what S_S gets out of playing this way. It must be exhausting where every game you play you have to spend the majority of it defending your lack of doing much but he keeps playing so he must enjoy it so I just have to try to figure it out and that's why I keep calling the push on him lazy. It seems like you and the others are attempting to pretend like S_S's meta just doesn't exist because you're too lazy to find a person who actually has a high likelihood of being scum this game.

[Thestatusquo]

Where you not cared for as a kid or something,Shea?

Reported, yes I was fucking physically abused as a child you fucking prick.

[Thestatusquo]

What a fucking horrible person you are.

[Thestatusquo]

My shots at you are game related and not related to past fucking childhood trauma.

[Thestatusquo]

"HAHA FUNNY JOKE CHILDHOOD ABUSE"

How exactly did you think that was gunna land?

[Thestatusquo]

And, I'm not really looking to start a dialogue with Nero. (I mean if he wants to I won't refuse, but it seems unrealistic.) I mostly just want to bring to the attention of others that the reasons Nero has for scumreading me are mostly nothing.

can you do me a favor?

[Thestatusquo]

And, I'm not really looking to start a dialogue with Nero. (I mean if he wants to I won't refuse, but it seems unrealistic.) I mostly just want to bring to the attention of others that the reasons Nero has for scumreading me are mostly nothing.

do you actually think nero is scum or is this more of jsut a general protest ?

It's scum looking for that long shot chance

Has there been any majority wagon in this game you were against?

[Thestatusquo]

can you do me a favor?

I can do my best, what's up?

I want you to theory craft a brand new way you might be able to find scum reads that you haven't tried before and then do it.

[Thestatusquo]

In what way and why?

[Thestatusquo]

When i read like 200 pages of scum!S_S i noticed he kept ending his posts witn these stupid aphorisms involving numbers like "that's just my .02 cents" and "if i had a nickel for every time someone said that about a GL post I'd have...a dollar".

Now in #6574 he's going "call it six of one, half a dozen of the other" because he's getting excited because he thinks Shea and Nero are going to create World War 3

Did you read a town game too perchance to compare? He just does that regardless of his alignment is my experience.

[Thestatusquo]

When i read like 200 pages of scum!S_S i noticed he kept ending his posts witn these stupid aphorisms involving numbers like "that's just my .02 cents" and "if i had a nickel for every time someone said that about a GL post I'd have...a dollar".

Now in #6574 he's going "call it six of one, half a dozen of the other" because he's getting excited because he thinks Shea and Nero are going to create World War 3

Did you read a town game too perchance to compare? He just does that regardless of his alignment is my experience.

I'll read one now if you have one in particular you will recommend. I kind of feel like #6574 pinged you though for a different reason if I understand how you think at all.

I don't think you understand how I think even a little bit given...pretty much every comment you've made about me this game.

And I don't know what you're referring to.

Although I did just go back to glance through S_S's iso in cats vs dogs to try to find examples of the "just my two cents" type thing and I just...It's just ridiculous how different S_S's play is that game to here. Like he's still not forceful and he still isn't someone to throw his vote around and make something happen but there is much more trying to actually give opinions on the general state of the game and where things should be going. And I find that kind of odd given that he said he was particularly demotivated that game due to hating multiball.

Like, this quote, for instance:

despite my dream I think Titus is still best lim here for info

X

In a post using literally no words there is more attempt to actually influence the game based off his opinions than in this one. In his 8th post in the game having replaced in literally the day before. I need to read a scum game too I guess because like, the difference I see in S_S here and in CvD is just...way larger than I remember it being.

[Thestatusquo]

I think scum equity and buddy equity are just pretty common phrases generally speaking.

[Thestatusquo]

S_S you said that game that frogster is talking about is a good scum game. Do you have an example of a game where you replaced into a scum slot and did poorly?

[Thestatusquo]

THEN WHY DO I SEE ONLY YOU USE EQUITY WHEN I SEARCH FOR IT AND THEN S_S USES IT FOR THE FIRSTTIME EVER AT THE MOST IDEAL OPPORTUNITY TO POCKET YOU

[Thestatusquo]

Had to go back a bit because I dont know if screenshotting ongoing games would be a no-no but uh, no I don't agree with you.

[Thestatusquo]

Playing with you is one of the most unique experiences I've ever had in my life so I guess thank you for that.

[Thestatusquo]

I fundamentally do not think this is a thing that matters but knock yourself out.

[Thestatusquo]

Shocked, shocked I say, to learn there is GAMBLING going on in this establishment.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm more interested in a game which could be described as bad but I'll still look.

[Thestatusquo]

Apropos of nothing I just went to ausukas wiki and
"Hi I'm Ausuka. I don't play mafia outside of marathons anymore. Because of this there's no reason to list any game data here. If you see me playing mafia, please tell me to stop. I occasionally mod games and post on sitechat."

On no. But I do not want you to stop. You're the only one who thinks I'm town.

[Thestatusquo]

Nope, I see no reason why this day needs to end yet.

[Thestatusquo]

Can you just stop talking to me outside of what is necessary to play the game of mafia?

[Thestatusquo]

I...do not think I'm saying what you think I'm saying.

Fire is still a better lim today.

[Thestatusquo]

I wanted you to think of something that you think might actually find scum. I don't think you believe this will.

I know you must believe that scum are findable, and I know that you probably know a lot of players and various bits of pieces of how they develop reads that you don't typically do yourself.

I meant something more along those lines, but this seems, while its a good faith response to my question in terms of effort, not a good faith response to my question in terms of what I was actually asking you to do.

I also asked for a game where you replaced in as scum that didnt go well for you.

[Thestatusquo]

I wanted you to think of something that you think might actually find scum. I don't think you believe this will.

What do you mean by "find scum"? This method is probably more reliable than chance, if there was anything I thought was

significantly

more reliable I would have used it already, and you restricted me to using theory instead of evidence. So the terms were pretty limiting in what I could actually do.

That's...not what I meant by theory crafting. I just meant like...think of something you think is likely to come from scum.

Do you legitimately just think that scum are not generally findable then? Have you expressed that opinion before?

[Thestatusquo]

Subject: Mini 2231: Radio Buzz | Game Over!

in my experience when there's 2 leading wagons and neither of the 2 have any solid/real read on the other wagon its probly just S/S

Excuse me for not having a read on a 20 post slot, I guess?

Wow what a post in this thread by pooky. He was right too.

[Thestatusquo]

ok but its like the only tangible thing you've done this game that to my mind approaches the traditional use of your vote to try to find reactions and scumbos so you should be able to understand why people are trying to scrutinize it?

[Thestatusquo]

I see we used the same method of quoting the locked thread.

[Thestatusquo]

my tinfoil theory is that menalque is a busy man but also playing a lot less lately and like maybe it's a wolf slot and he's like "okay i can do this" and then he remembers how soulsucking it is to be a wolf lol and then vanishes

being a wolf is way less soul sucking than being town.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: fireisredsir

[Thestatusquo]

Can we do the same to the mod for the one votecount in 3 days?

[Thestatusquo]

I don't have a lot to add here right now, I feel like the gamestate is stagnating but like I don't really feel like I can do anything to change that.

[Thestatusquo]

I kind of have the vague theory that player vote counts are more likely to come from scum than town because its an easy way to seem helpful and part of the thread without any accountability but I haven't actually put any effort into calibrating that or actually testing it with data.

Just a thought.

[Thestatusquo]

Haha okay Shea, gigs up. I see what you did now. Well played.

I have literally no idea what you're talking about.

[Thestatusquo]

Did I use the word equity unexpectedly or something?

[Thestatusquo]

Menalque

high certainty

-> S_S

medium certainty

-> Shea

medium-low certainty

-> Dease

very low certainty

-> fire

very low certainty

PEdit:

You seem a little defensive, Shea. Getting concerned?

Nope. I don't think you have the ability to get a lim on me even if you wanted to.

[Thestatusquo]

Put another way, I'm not concerned with what you're doing as either alignment I don't think.

[Thestatusquo]

Why?

[Thestatusquo]

interesting that both todays wagons have now parked on my vanity wagon while refusing to actually talk about each other (or be here) that much.

Not sure what it means but honestly I think it DOES point to maybe S-S

[Thestatusquo]

interesting that both todays wagons have now parked on my vanity wagon while refusing to actually talk about each other (or be here) that much.

Not sure what it means but honestly I think it DOES point to maybe S-S

LAMIST, distancing from S_S without doing anything to push the elimination forward on either Menalque or S_S

You are truly staggeringly bad at mafia

[Thestatusquo]

my scum game is good, yes.

[Thestatusquo]

What's the iconeum tell?

two major competing wagons consistently refusing to vote for one another, even when it would make sense from a survivalistic-pov, point towards them being s/s

I was kind of considering this to be not really applicable because its S_S specifically and he usually just wouldn't vote in that situation regardless.

But I think him voting fireisred changes my thoughts there considerably.

[Thestatusquo]

interesting that both todays wagons have now parked on my vanity wagon while refusing to actually talk about each other

(or be here)

that much.

how does the bolded apply to s_s?

It doesn't. I threw that in because the first part doesn't really apply to Mena imo mostly because he hasnt been here.

[Thestatusquo]

I can see how my wording there is confusing, I was mostly trying to say {doing something from within this subset of things} and instead the post implies that both are doing both things.

[Thestatusquo]

interesting that both todays wagons have now parked on my vanity wagon while refusing to actually talk about each other (or be here) that much.

Not sure what it means but honestly I think it DOES point to maybe S-S

I agree that this often points to S-S. I think it also mildly points to T-T, but I'll have to see what Mena does when he's here. I feel like at least it's reasonable for me to not have much to say about that slot, because he hasn't done much.

There were two people in that slot before him.

[Thestatusquo]

What's the iconeum tell?

two major competing wagons consistently refusing to vote for one another, even when it would make sense from a survivalistic-pov, point towards them being s/s

I was kind of considering this to be not really applicable because its S_S specifically and he usually just wouldn't vote in that situation regardless.

But I think him voting fireisred changes my thoughts there considerably.

which is why i specifically edited the post to reflect s_s's vote there, yes.

on one hand, i am liking what s_s is doing. on the other, i know that earlier today, while i was taking a walk, i was thinking how scum!s_s doesn't necessarily make *sense* because scum!s_s would have an idea on what he has to do to get townread, and he was obviously not doing that (e.g. being unhelpful when you asked him for a new solving strategy or wtv), and that didn't quite make sense. however, now that he's gone into doing traditionally townier stuff...

like. i kinda feel gross saying this, because i don't wanna *discourage* possible town!s_s from solving. but i'd be lying if i said the thought didn't cross my mind.

This whole post matches my thoughts pretty much exactly.

[Thestatusquo]

interesting that both todays wagons have now parked on my vanity wagon while refusing to actually talk about each other (or be here) that much.

Not sure what it means but honestly I think it DOES point to maybe S-S

LAMIST, distancing from S_S without doing anything to push the elimination forward on either Menalque or S_S

You are truly staggeringly bad at mafia

I think this goes against your character you portray when you say not to be ableist or whatever against people's intelligence. I think there's a motivation here to get me to doubt in my ability which is believable from Town!shea but seems to be a little bit too defensive and on the nose considering real Town!Shea is under no real pressure of losing the game here if I push his slot.

As either alignment I think I would find you pushing me annoying and not much more because I think your scum finding methods are not better than random chance and I don't particularly feel like its worthwhile to do anything to them besides just dismiss them off hand.

[Thestatusquo]

Like I feel very strongly that if I were scum here I would not care about you pushing me at all except in the sense that it makes the thread kind of unpleasant to read.

[Thestatusquo]

Alright, I guess I'll just go back to ignoring frogsterking.

[Thestatusquo]

on one hand, i am liking what s_s is doing. on the other, i know that earlier today, while i was taking a walk, i was thinking how scum!s_s doesn't necessarily make *sense* because scum!s_s would have an idea on what he has to do to get townread, and he was obviously not doing that (e.g. being unhelpful when you asked him for a new solving strategy or wtv), and that didn't quite make sense. however, now that he's gone into doing traditionally townier stuff...

I think the missing link in this reasoning is-- I'm town and under pressure. Of course I'm going to try to transition to things that are more likely to get me townread! I'm still taking things on my terms, but I'm trying to meet people in the middle.

And, if I were scum, I would have long since gone into antispew/WIFOM mode. Not that what I'm doing now couldn't be that, but I wouldn't necessarily be trying harder to live because I would have already given up on living in the long term.

I guess my thought is just...you don't usually do this as town, do you? I seem to remember you being pretty resistant to changing how you're playing in order to get townread before. In fact, I remember you say this game that it leads to you getting miselimmed.

[Thestatusquo]

Why do you keep double posting.

[Thestatusquo]

i am eagerly awaiting to hear more abt gl's scamper vote on the morrow

What about my scamper vote?

and this is partnery imo

Is it? I feel like its pretty normal to pick up on someone asking someone for something and not you when you did roughly the same thing?

I'm missing all the context here without going back and rereading but I wouldn't consider this partnery in a vacuum.

[Thestatusquo]

Why do you keep double posting.

because i have a shitty mouse that, in about 75% of cases, double-clicks when i normal click and i don't know how to fix it

and my internet is moderately shitty and lets both posts go through

if you have a fix for my shitty mouse, i'm all ears

I'm willing to buy you a new mouse if you can't afford one.

[Thestatusquo]

Damn guess datisi must be my second traitor.

[Thestatusquo]

Since you're not in the PT datisi and SS can you tell me who we should shoot tonight? I have thoughts but I'd like to hear yours first.

[Thestatusquo]

Depends on perspective I think.

[Thestatusquo]

Since you're not in the PT datisi and SS can you tell me who we should shoot tonight? I have thoughts but I'd like to hear yours first.

In case you're wondering, Frogster, this is an example of me being performative as town because I know I'd say something like this as scum.

For your analysis in the post game.

[Thestatusquo]

oh no but now I know that you know that I would say it as town because I would say it as scum and therefore I might be scum trying to make it look like I'm town trying to do what I would do as scum.

Lots of levels here.

[Thestatusquo]

Taunting you about being unable to get me limmed is also something I did here as town because I've done it before as scum

[Thestatusquo]

It's more so based on the fact that Shea is really persistent about voting fire and it reminded me of my scum play from that large normal where I kept pushing Yeet and VP nonsensically to rile up the Town.

i mean, shea can theoretically be scum independently

i just don't get any ~vibe feelsies~ about him/s_s having a mental connection or whatever the fuck it is

i think his play here makes sense as scum most if mena and s_s are both town

but i don't wanna think about that scenario right now

Looking forward to the world where S_S or someone flips town and I get attacked for being right two phases in a row.

[Thestatusquo]

I assume if we flipped fire and they were red I would be double bussing.

[Thestatusquo]

Wait hold up.

fireisredsir

fireisred

Fire is red.

Has anyone thought of this before?

[Thestatusquo]

Kinda just willing to hammer mena. :/

I dont understand why people even bother replacing into games if they're going to do this.

[Thestatusquo]

I think I would support some rule where if you continually replace out of scum slots under pressure you get timeouts. It happens so much and its like...not a fun way to win the game imo. If Mena is scum I'll be like extremely disappointed.

[Thestatusquo]

I ain't gunna just omegalul hammer. Even if me claiming intent did lead to frogster stealing the hammer on the slot I'd been pushing all day last time.

[Thestatusquo]

We're on the same train of thought of no need to end the day yet, just I'm expressing frustration at mena more than anything else.

[Thestatusquo]

Seems like an act of mercy to not make anyone else play that slot at this point.

[Thestatusquo]

you...replaced into a game and immediately forgot it existed?

[Thestatusquo]

even if he flipped scum it wouldn't make me look better. (It would, in fact, make me look worse.)

but like, if he flips scum it would get us closer to winning the game

and we still have several miselims available so limming wolf!Mena into town!Smart would not be game-losing

I feel like Something_Smart as town would actually be more survivalist here? Voting Nero seems to me like an attempt at looking town.

I mean, pure survivalism doesn't help me unless I can also look town, like I said I'm very afraid of chaining town-S_S and town-Mena in either order. Voting Mena would be a blunder, because it would hasten that, and even if he flipped scum it wouldn't make me look better. (It would, in fact, make me look worse.)

This seems like a weird thing to be this worried about unless you explicitly town read Mena.

[Thestatusquo]

I thought it was a funny joke.

Also, I think you're overstating your clear in a way that I'm not sure town would do.

Scamper saying "I have reason to believe datisi is town" is NOT "Datisi is confirmed town."

Unless I missed something.

[Thestatusquo]

I think you're doing it to do a pro town thing but like...you know?

[Thestatusquo]

Cool I don't have the information scamper does and "clear" can mean very different things from confirmed town all the way down to much less than that.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not worried about it, I'm completely happy with the state of the game wrt you and scamper. I'm treating you both town until further notice, but I don't think that is the same as claiming you're confirmed town.

[Thestatusquo]

I think its mildly weird that the scum chose to shoot a vig over the claimed investigative role, but I have found that second guessing stuff like that doesn't usually end up being fruitful.

pedit I'm always worried about you.

[Thestatusquo]

We make better choices when we listen to each other's takes but if you aren't willing to listen to my takes then I'm skeptical sheeping your takes is actually +EV for me because my reads are very good when I am not on tilt.

[citation needed]

[Thestatusquo]

Also I'm not going to speculate on someone being sick or not. I assume if mena says hes sick than he is sick, I do still find the phrasing "I completely forgot about this game." to be unlikely.

I don't think someone would replace into a game and then immediately forget about it especially considering the pressure on the slot.

So yeah, believe sick, don't believe forgot about game.

[Thestatusquo]

Idk dude speculating about someone's health just feels kind of gross and i just wish you wouldn't do it at all in any capacity.

[Thestatusquo]

Frogster i think the most pro town thing you could do right now would be to just shut the fuck up for like 15 hours.

[Thestatusquo]

Hey guys my girlfriend just got in a car accident so I'm headed to the hospital and won't be able to post as much. Can you please push Mena + Dease through, it wins the game for us unless I don't understand how the roles work. I'll track S_S or fire ig

Hadn't read this yet before i yelled. I hope your girlfriend is ok.

[Thestatusquo]

I would be pleased if Mena were town and we could go Lim fireisred.

I will say i think fb enthusiasm argument is pretty bad. I've seen him enthusiastic as town and not enthusiastic as scum many times with good player lists and bad ones.

[Thestatusquo]

Mena do you have reasoning for the scum portion of that read list

[Thestatusquo]

Also how much reading is it based on

[Thestatusquo]

Whelmed is exactly how I feel about the mena posts personally.

[Thestatusquo]

There is less follow through than I would like.

[Thestatusquo]

i mean, frog imo, but idk he probably is town

I actually think that frogs batshit antics are the opposite of "trying to appear town."

[Thestatusquo]

Frog seems to not give even the faintest fucks about trying to appear town.

I do not know if frog necessarily knows what "appearing town" means though so its kind of hard to evaluate.

[Thestatusquo]

I had gone to bed feeling pretty strongly about Frog!scum because like... what town has the motivation to play that hard right now

but idk im feeling less hot about it in the cold light of day

we just kill menalque yeah?

feels like this is a read that would require knowledge of the game state to properly evaluate. How can you possibly know how hard scum!frog would be playing without knowing the alignments of mena and S_S, right?

[Thestatusquo]

Do we have a vote count? I will hammer tonight if mena hasn't given us anything else to work with.

[Thestatusquo]

Frog seems to not give even the faintest fucks about trying to appear town.

I do not know if frog necessarily knows what "appearing town" means though so its kind of hard to evaluate.

don't agree, i think frog does know what looks town

and i think he is doing the most to look like how he looks as town, not some abstract ideal of what "towny" looks like

Given the things he keeps claiming are scum indicative I don't know if I could disagree with the statement "frog does know what looks town" any more strongly.

[Thestatusquo]

I dont agree with that. I've read several frog town games and a frog scum game.

[Thestatusquo]

you think this looks more like the scum game?

No I think it looks more like the town game, my point is simply that I don't think frogster is that aware of the differences between town scum and frog scum.

Or at the very least, I don't think the play here remotely looks like the scum play. So like, yeah is it possible frogster has gained +1000skill points since that scum game, maybe but I don't think its particularly likely.

[Thestatusquo]

I think the longer the game day goes on the more...idk kind of performative S_S's reasons for not doing anything before? Idk they feel a lot less sincere to me than they did at the beginning of the day but maybe that's just a reflection of my just general wanting this day to be over more than anything else.

[Thestatusquo]

*become not before

[Thestatusquo]

you think this looks more like the scum game?

No I think it looks more like the town game, my point is simply that I don't think frogster is that aware of the differences between town scum and frog scum.

Or at the very least, I don't think the play here remotely looks like the scum play. So like, yeah is it possible frogster has gained +1000skill points since that scum game, maybe but I don't think its particularly likely.

which scum game did you read? large normal 238 he made a lot of efforts to match aspects of his play to aspects of his townplay, more than i remembered. he is def aware of the differences

idr, whichever one was linked in the thread.

[Thestatusquo]

intent.

[Thestatusquo]

This one I'm not mad about.

[Thestatusquo]

Still kind of think this is gonna flip green but whatever. We were never getting off it.

[Thestatusquo]

The good news is Mena will still be here tomorrow so we can chainsaw Mena into me and lose to fireisred somehow.

[Thestatusquo]

any last words Smart?

what kind of a post is this btw

if people didn't listen to me while I was alive why the hell would they listen after I'm dead

Legitimately exasperated by this dude. Listen to you on what? That you were town? Why do you expect people to just listen to that when you're completely unwilling to do anything that remotely helps the town solve the game. If you're town this was a ridiculous performance from you and genuinely upsetting that you seem to think you've done nothing wrong?

[Thestatusquo]

My exasperation is not with being bad, I'm awful, but with not trying.

[Thestatusquo]

The irony is that i was the one who spent the whole day saying i thought you were green and no one was willing to listen to me because you gave them nothing

[Thestatusquo]

I think you need to fundamentally reevaluate your thresholds for what you think is town and scum behavior.

[Thestatusquo]

I dont have much to add right now but I'm here and reading.

[Thestatusquo]

You pointing to the S_S iso is irrelevant and you should know this because you weren’t there. There was a real chance of me being eliminated instead of gamma and scum in that position were going to have to tread carefully. Do they give up on gamma or try to get me eliminated? How hard do they try? Do they say almost nothing about me (except for occasional shading) while also not committing to gamma in the hope that things may swing in my direction without them actually spearheading it? I’m not sure what’s so difficult to parse about that theory

Was there???

[Thestatusquo]

I feel like something is clicking in my head here.

But I'm not sure what. The way datisi reacted to the night kill is weird to me.

Frogster being so sure mela is scum while simultaneously being willing to "flash wagon fire with extreme prejudice." when that was the only serious option besides the two of them that was brought up all day is also weird.

[Thestatusquo]

It's really hard for me to sort through what I think about people's play yesterday because of how demotivated the whole game was.

Like I don't think Ausuka's play yesterday was particularly townie compared to how I felt about her play yesterday, but I'm not sure how much weight to put on that given the state of the day.

[Thestatusquo]

*play previously

[Thestatusquo]

scamper
Datisi
Cat Scratch Fever

The why are you alive crew. Scamper softed an investigate role day one (I think it was day one) and has managed to survive 3 nightkills? Same with Datisi who was involved in that clear. Cat scratch looked good to my initial reaction test of them replacing in but has done actual nothing and also should probably be dead at this point?

Are the scum just trying to make me wifom myself here? Datisi coming in immediately and pointing this out FEELS like a vague tell I've seen many times where scum make a kill deliberately to introduce wifom and then want to make sure town is talking about it.

This combined with yesterday Datisi trying to railroad that they were confirmed town when thats very different from what the actual game state is makes me leery here.

I think its probably time for scamper to actually give full information here so we can evaluate it, plus theoretically he also should have some other useful results for the PoE and if he is truly an investigative he has to die tonight anyway, right?

[Thestatusquo]

There's plenty of time to get back to mena eventually if people still think he's scum but I'm not going to let today turn into the self-fulfilling prophecy bullshit we had yesterday where Nero and Frogster basically refused to let people consider any other options.

[Thestatusquo]

yesss i love being prejudized

i can't like srspost rn but i plan to this afternoon

my reads are all mushy and id like to try to fix that

scum are trying to goad this Town into killing them in order to end their suffering

PEdit:

Menalque's reads list is a comedy gold mine. I'm sure every player can look at it for a few minutes and come up with their own unique and valid reason why it's implausible to come from Town

Can you stop this performative nonsense pushing and actually try to think through the information we have? Comments like this which speak to a state of the game happening because X are so frustrating because they accomplish nothing. They can't be evaluated and are therefore COMPLETELY useless.

[Thestatusquo]

i *think* datisi is the only one I could see as plausibly being scum of those three

if CSF is scum then they have to be an even night serial killer but um does anyone actually think that?

This is why I want info from scamper.

[Thestatusquo]

It's really hard for me to sort through what I think about people's play yesterday because of how demotivated the whole game was.

Like I don't think Ausuka's play yesterday was particularly townie compared to how I felt about her play yesterday, but I'm not sure how much weight to put on that given the state of the day.

Shrug, I mean it's hard for me to effort too hard if there's a pretty big chance that we're on track to win already and me doing Things might just reduce our win rate and waste our time

I do think some of my townreads have become stale so I will do some reviewing today

I think our chances of winning go down significantly if we continue to have completely non-productive days like yesterday.

[Thestatusquo]

yesss i love being prejudized

i can't like srspost rn but i plan to this afternoon

my reads are all mushy and id like to try to fix that

scum are trying to goad this Town into killing them in order to end their suffering

PEdit:

Menalque's reads list is a comedy gold mine. I'm sure every player can look at it for a few minutes and come up with their own unique and valid reason why it's implausible to come from Town

And yet you didn't manage to come up with any of those reasons yourself.

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Tell me why they're implausible to come from town. Should be easy given how certain you seem about it.

[Thestatusquo]

as soon as someone says "I wouldn't do x as scum" they immediately demonstrate a reason why they would

[Thestatusquo]

I don't love dannflors side of this interaction but I'm not really sure how much I don't like it.

[Thestatusquo]

i think datisi/scamper paranoia isnt that helpful because iirc we have enough room that we can leave it for a while and if they don't die then it's suspicious

Well, this is why I want the info now if it exists. Killing scamper tonight is the level 0 scum play and I would argue its already kind of suspicious that both are alive.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think its fair to say ausukas reads have been consensus. As someone who he was strongly reading as town while everyone else was trying to kill me and it being maybe the only thing that kept me alive in this game.

[Thestatusquo]

I think the gamma interaction towards ausuka looks a lot more like a Scum-town than scum-scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Like we have examples of gamma interacting with buddies this game and they don't look anything like that.

I'm not saying that all interactions look the same but occams razor plays a role here, yes?

[Thestatusquo]

redfire what are your reads rn?

prob most interested in looking for scum in dann, shea, SS, marci rn. a slight level below that would be xofelf and gamma

strongest TRs on ausuka, scamper, you. not quite as strong on datisi, hem, obscure, ydra, frog. then DV and GL are kinda weak townleans ig

i think thats everyone

okay this is funny
our strongest TRs line up but aside from that there's notable variance
I think I'll pencil in fire as town for this

do you have an opinion on this post, shea

yes

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really think I'm ever going to see Shea!scum

I dont even know what this is in reference to.

As an aside I kind of read the dann-ausuka exchange as TvT.

I don't think his reasons are AS bad as ausuka thinks they are. I think looking at interactions with gamma make sense and I haven't done any deep dives myself but I do kind of vibe with his point about Ausukas interactions towards gamma a bit.

When I fundamentally disagree with Ausuka here is that I don't think theres a ton of motivation for scum dannflor to come into the day and try to attack ausuka specifically. They say there's a lot to gain but I'm not really sure what that is, exactly. I don't think a push on Ausuka is ever going to work here and even if it somehow does what has scum accomplished if they're in the group of dann-mena or dann fire?

I would argue not much. They took out a consensus town read player who will surely take them down while doing it.

Shrug.

[Thestatusquo]

why is fire now in between them?

You are thinking of Dease. I swapped him and fire because of fire's EoD3 and swapped Dease and Dann because Dann is playing my lurk + troll + tinfoil scum game and it's becoming more effective the more apathetic everyone becomes. Menalque should be pushed through before any more tinfoiling happens. You said you wanted Menalque to "town it the fuck up" and Menalque never did that. Now...Menalque is still alive. Why is Menalque not being voted? Menalque has been given every chance and refuses to do anything resembling a Town Beast. If anything Menalque has demonstrated they are a Scum Beast because they ended yesterday with only 2 votes and I'm the only one currently pushing them with any fervor.

answer my question please.

[Thestatusquo]

I want to lim fire instead of mena I think but I'm not like super opposed to a mena flip because I have a hard time believing both wagons yesterday were on town with the way they moved.

[Thestatusquo]

I am opposed to a dann flip I think.

[Thestatusquo]

Also since it wasn't clear from the first post on the subject I think ausuka is town. But I think the things dann was picking out are at least somewhat reasonable things to be paranoid about, and I don't think its a scum play to put forth that kind of effort to poke ausuka like that in this gamestate.

[Thestatusquo]

I do kind of vibe with the point ausuka makes that dann has been relatively open to vague suspicion on almost everyone today. (see, comments about datisi for example) but I don't think thats like super inconsistent with a town player forcing themselves to reevaluate either.

[Thestatusquo]

I have a spicy secret scum read that I will keep under wraps for now lest I get made fun of.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really agree with any of those reasons.

I also town read S_S. I also town read you. Activity level does not make someone town as evidenced by all my scum games. And saying scum reading Deas is opportunistic because you were pushing him is just stupid when clearly the opportunistic scum play would be scum read S_S.

The point is that I do not agree that its a ridiculous and unbelievable list.

Nor do I really understand why even if you think its an unreasonable list that would be indicative of scum since townies have ridiculous reads all the time.

[Thestatusquo]

The opportunistic point is SO bad because it ignores lots of other ways in which scum!mena could have been opportunistic and chose not to be, such as scum reading me, such as town reading Nero who was pretty universally town read. Such as scum reading the counter wagon.

This is just really bad logic.

[Thestatusquo]

*such as NOT scum reading me.

[Thestatusquo]

No I was right the first time. I need coffee. Mena townread me when the opportunistic play would be to scum read me. Mena town read S_S when the opportunistic play would be to scum read him. Mena ???piled Nero when the opportunistic play would be to town read there.

[Thestatusquo]

Like is mena still scum? Idk maybe. But your argument is bad.

[Thestatusquo]

No?

[Thestatusquo]

We're fighting because your reasoning is extremely bad and its annoying me.

[Thestatusquo]

As far as I understand it getting engaged is a binary state.

[Thestatusquo]

This reread doesn't feel real to me.

Or at the very least it doesn't match with how I expect rereads to look.

[Thestatusquo]

This reread doesn't feel real to me.

Or at the very least it doesn't match with how I expect rereads to look.

What did you think of my debate with fire, Shea?

Tbh i remember nothing of it.

[Thestatusquo]

Just throwing out random "x feels why" or "oh i think x is town now" with no reasoning or anything is just... Not how i seriously see town approach real rereads.

Usually there's quotes. Or specific posts or specific thoughts on things that happened. There's none of that here. There's just random asides on alignment.

It just feels so fake. I'm going to see if i can track down a fire game where there did a reread as town and see if it looks anything like this because i remember them saying they're on mobile before but idk man.

[Thestatusquo]

Am I crazy? Has anyone seen a town reread before that looked like this?

[Thestatusquo]

You're a huge part of the reason fire wasn't voted out yesterday. You and everyone else who insisted that we had exactly two options.

[Thestatusquo]

what

[Thestatusquo]

sorry for being inactive, i had a busy day yesterday

going to try to digest the cases that have been made now

I would like a full claim from you because i expect you to die tonight.

[Thestatusquo]

i also agree that fire's reread isn't Great but also at this point i think i'd need much much more from him to change my opinion of him on this game

uhh, who said that frogs can post like this as scum, was it @shea? (if it wasn't, whoever it was) do you still hold that view? bc i am really struggling to imagine scum-frogs posting with this much... i don't know non-rude words to describe it, but you know what i mean.

What does this first line mean? Are you saying you actively town read fire? If so...WHY?

Also I believe it was fireisred who was arguing with me who said that.

[Thestatusquo]

no, i'm saying i think he's scum, and while i acknowledge that his catchup exists and isn't great, it doesn't change my opinion on much of anything

Gun to your head who is more likely to flip scum fire or mena.

[Thestatusquo]

alright well I'm gunna go camp over here

VOTE: fireisredsir

Also my spicy scum read is nero who I think has done basically nothing but anti town stuff for basically two whole days now and has really faded into the background after getting a consensus town read day 1 and whose push on me reminds me a lot of the kind of fake pushes I make all the time as scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Datisi prob is a scum doc but I'm not super super confident. Kinda bummed that I thought I had a good read on him.

Like this post is WILD.

[Thestatusquo]

I went and looked briefly and I couldn't really find fire doing a reread like this as either alignment.

[Thestatusquo]

here is town fire doing a reread

Spoiler:

ok well im just gonna talk to myself for a bit if no one is around

what i wanted to say earlier in my post that my phone ate, was that in the previous large, where datisi and skitter were both scum, i mostly townread them off play, but there were certain things that did hit as scummy for me. moreso for skitter, but datisi had a couple. and all of them came down to when the things that they chose to push, the things they chose to back off of, the way they positioned themselves, just felt a little... off. there were plenty of posts where they were logical, rational, hitting genuine emotional beats, productive, solving, etc etc, all the things a good town should do. and those mostly did a good job of masking the moments that seemed off and made them feel insignificant. but those moments were still there.

i know thats a sample size of 1, but i also did feel similar things from skitter in panic room d1, so im rolling with it as a model of what i should be looking for when scumhunting Good Players (tm), cause i don't have any better ideas when there aren't any flips.

so i reread the game and here's a mostly unordered and maybe incomplete list

1. skitter backing off dwlee in 182. i was not satisfied at all with dwlee's answer here and i don't think skitter should have been either

2. skitter being the "reasonable party" in the prism vs ari debate is something ive seen scum skitter do. but i have a feeling its just something that skitter does. still noting it bc it is something i thought about

3. prism's switch on ari in 155. i know she's said recently that she thinks that would have been bad scumplay for her to do that, but idk the latching on thing here just kiiinda feels like the way in which scum could look for a weak spot to attack and tunnel. town can do that too obviously, and i think prisms reasoning later in the argument are fair and reasonable and well-stated, but there's something about the initial trigger that i don't quite buy. my heart isn't in this one tbh but i have told myself that im not supposed to listen to my heart here

4. vp's early aggressive push on skitter is just... hm. kinda reminds me of monkey in the recent panic room game, where he's plausibly hiding behind an exaggerated push "for the sake of pressure" because then you don't have to look genuine while doing it. hm hm. like it feels like it's too... out of the playbook? if that makes any sense? and something that someone would likely want to pull out if they're having trouble fitting in and vibing

5. my hearts not in this one either. shuichi in 222 and voting dwlee soon after. idk if i can really count this one bc i agree with it so it doesn't really feel off but... i can very easily see a world where scum would sheep me on a somewhat under the radar read. and people try to pocket me like an average of 10 times per game so i should probably be wary of that possibility

6. vp 255 just doesn't feel like vp picking on things that i think town vp should genuinely care about picking on

7. 275 mostly noting this for later if we get some flips. but it does feel like dwlee is realigning their reads to be looking for scum in the generally popular scumreads. this isn't an inherently scummy thing to do but it is a potentially significant positioning move

8. datisi giving a teamread of skitter/vp but not wanting to givr any sort of a read on vp individually felt a little off to me

9. actually kinda not loving datisi's push on skitter in general here on a reread, although it didn't bother me the first time. the things he's choosing as reasons don't quite feel like they match the tone of the push? god the more I type here the less i feel like these reads are useful or explained in any coherent way but im already committed

10. dwlee's switch on vp in 410 kinda stands out to me bc vp had just recently started making some more effort-y posts, but I don't think the posts were very good? maybe dwlee disagrees, but if they have tmi that vp is town, i think his posts would look townier than they are

11. prism with enchant as top townread in 422 is just strange imo. i don't think anyone is really obvtown here, so... maybe. mostly i just agree with all the points made by shuichi in 438



ok i got sleepy and this post is definitely already way longer than it should be. maybe ill continue this approach another time if i end up deciding it was useful

If there is justice in this world Shea will kick your butt for doing incomplete meta research like he did to me

In this case he's doing it because I asked him to.

But this just confirms my suspicion that real fire rereads look much like I would expect them to with thoughts and analysis and posts and what not and not "I'm on page 60 now frogster might be scum idk"

[Thestatusquo]

its a 240 page game im just livetweeting my thoughts. i will probably try to summarize them more cohesively once i finish

idk it sounds super unhelpful to me to respond to decade old posts and give quotes for exactly what im thinking prior to me finishing but i can if you want

p sure i did exactly this in frenemies

i also don't really expect to convince anyone i shouldn't die at some point in the next few days here, but i would like the chance to figure out who i think is scum and illustrate why

My whole point is that you didn't live tweet it though. You had like 3 total thoughts in the first 60 pages of the game?