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[DeasVail]

Sorry about being late. Hello!

[DeasVail]

locktown

tbh i feel this

[DeasVail]

i have townpings on ydrasse and skitter

why skitter? I dont think skitter is very town at this point

[DeasVail]

VOTE: scamper

noice

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Nero Cain

vibez

[DeasVail]

I think Datisi is town

[DeasVail]

xofelf maybe bothers me a lil' b/c its all fluff and no content. I very vaugely remember playing with them before and scum reading them for similar reasoning. So maybe it's more of a NAI thing.

i agree with this read since og i was gonna come in and call soft elf scummy but it does seem pretty playstyle thing.

That quote is one of my issues with Nero. It's very wishy-washy and seems to be ignoring a very obvious next-step that could be used to determine whether that is AI for xofelf or not.

[DeasVail]

I think fb is a reasonable vote

[DeasVail]

xofelf maybe bothers me a lil' b/c its all fluff and no content. I very vaugely remember playing with them before and scum reading them for similar reasoning. So maybe it's more of a NAI thing.

i agree with this read since og i was gonna come in and call soft elf scummy but it does seem pretty playstyle thing.

That quote is one of my issues with Nero. It's very wishy-washy and seems to be ignoring a very obvious next-step that could be used to determine whether that is AI for xofelf or not.

whats the next step he should be taking..?
i thought thatnin the quote he was saying he read soft elf wrong b4..?

well clearly he remembers xofelf posting fluff, so I feel like the town approach is to look at a xofelf-town game to investigate the concentration of early-game fluff. If it seems fluffy, it's probably not worth being bothered about, no need to do a song and dance about it. Saying it in the way that nero has feels performative, an attempt to act like he has real thoughts, when in fact that post is just a bunch of vague and non-committal.

[DeasVail]

i have townpings on ydrasse and skitter

why skitter? I dont think skitter is very town at this point

its just a ping but i felt the townreadon ydra was sufficiently out of the box wherenone of her posts were conventionally townie so scum would be less likely to give a townread on those posts knowing its more likely to get weird looks

eh

[DeasVail]

cuZ i guess hed be happy to finally roll town in this pl cuz this pl is so nice and he doesnt feel very happy

maybe its cuz of other things like stress from work so im waiting for him to quit his job and see if his mood improves.

I will respond to other things as time permits, but this post is interesting to me because my reason for townreading Datisi was that his posts gave me less of a scum-stress impression and more like townie annoyance.
Datisi seemed less bothered by being suspected and more bothered by being misunderstood.

So I do wonder why Ari’s thought was Datisi being scum or stressed from work, rather than finally rolling town but it not starting out as he would have hoped

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Nero Cain

vibez

xofelf maybe bothers me a lil' b/c its all fluff and no content. I very vaugely remember playing with them before and scum reading them for similar reasoning. So maybe it's more of a NAI thing.

i agree with this read since og i was gonna come in and call soft elf scummy but it does seem pretty playstyle thing.

That quote is one of my issues with Nero. It's very wishy-washy and seems to be ignoring a very obvious next-step that could be used to determine whether that is AI for xofelf or not.

DV it seems like you have a case on Nero and I'm wondering why you seem, like, cautious about sharing it?

I didn’t have a case as much as scattered thoughts and a feeling that Nero didn’t seem like the town-Nero I knew. I also wanted to focus on Nero to start with because I’ve never played with Nero-scum and don’t actually know what that looks like. But yeah, I wanted more to sit on my thoughts than share all of them at the time.

The response to Marci was because Marci’s post seemed to be a response to mine by saying something they read as town from Nero.

[DeasVail]

Datisi seemed less bothered by being suspected and more bothered by being misunderstood.

how did you make that distinction

That is what it felt like to me when I read through, but I will most likely update/explain my Datisi read during my tonight

[DeasVail]

That quote is one of my issues with Nero. It's very wishy-washy and seems to be ignoring a very obvious next-step that could be used to determine whether that is AI for xofelf or not.

one of? Is there a reason that you are coming at me sideways instead of facing me head on? I'm hardly the first person to have conflicting reasoning on a slot and not doing a meta dive...what makes me unique in this situation? This seems overly nitpicky and a little hypocritical given that your intro is nothing but you agreeing with other people's reads and not giving any reasoning for your reads (me/datsi)


Also, elf claimed/confirmed that it wasn't AI in 250 so ???

Making my semi-yearly mafia appearance with a playerlist I'm pretty excited about.

While its great to hear from you it would have been much better if you talked about the first 8 pages.

You going to be this annoying all game or just play mafia?

I think calling out xoelf for fluff posting in lieu of content is a fairly productive use of a post. Like is there a reason that I shouldn't have been @ a contentless fluff poster?

Mostly because Nero hadn't done anything out of normal range there

What do you know of my range? As far as I'm aware we've only played once and I was town there. So if you've only seen me play town how can you question Ausuka's town read on the basis of range when you don't know what it is? If you think I am playing differently than our game together why not say that?

Your whole line of reasoning is that FB scum would claim scum as a rouse, correct?

more or less. Like I might be overcompensating for Infernal Affairs where he said things like

not voting me is a scum claim.

im clearly scum here. don't u slander me

The reason that I started to scum read him is that he was calling for votes on himself.

but if you read his ISO in the two games it's maybe not an apples to apples comparison. Like in IA he had a series of posts before ever calling himself scum and here he just comes right out and claims scum. Maybe the difference means nothing, maybe it means that he's more likely to be town here.

I was also a little suspicious of

so far VP, Ari, FB and maaaaayyybbbbeeee HEM seem a lil scummy. I like GL's stuff on scamper too.

HEM Is my only townread right now. How dare you

Like I really thought VP and Ari were scummy and when FB town reads the towniest of those 3 it made me

Only responding to the part of your post directed at me, but I’m not sure what’s so sideways about it. I think it’s a pretty normal thing in the early game to have a feeling about someone but not feel ready to fully articulate it.

Your comment on it being hypocritical does not really make sense to me because you’re just pointing out a different “bad” thing that I was doing which didn’t really seem relevant. Almost like responding to an insult in the schoolyard style “WELL your mom is…”. But I’m not really sure what that means for alignment.

I am interested in your lack of engagement with xofelf on their read of me though (or engagement with xofelf in general), given your earlier issue with their “fluff” and your interest in reads on me.

[DeasVail]

what did you think about deasveal's assumption on what's going on datisi's head. he seemed really confident.

Assumptions about what is going on in someone’s head is… kind of the basis of mafia dayplay imo

[DeasVail]

I like and agree with relly’s townread on xofelf

[DeasVail]

I also agree with the (seemingly) commonly held townreads of Ydrasse and Ausuka. Also fireisred leans town

[DeasVail]

Actually stronger town on fireisred. As scum, they would probably put up more of an act around being suspicious of me

[DeasVail]

Only responding to the part of your post directed at me

then learn how to edit better.

but I’m not sure what’s so sideways about it.

Well, in 318 you are calling your scumread on me some ~vibez~ bullshit but are presenting a semblance of reasoning in 326 going so far as to allude to having OTHER issues with me but you aren't presenting these reasons for ??? reason?

I think it’s a pretty normal thing in the early game to have a feeling about someone but not feel ready to fully articulate it.

I doubt this and even if this were true for some players it's an easy out to make as scum.

but it's super easy, barely an inconvenience! You just simply quote the offending post and then write a sentence or two about why you find it scummy. Takes less than a minute if you aren't manufacturing things.

I am interested in your lack of engagement with xofelf on their read of me though

???

So I called elf out, why do I have to continue to push them or engage? Elf already commented on you in 731. I mean, maybe if they don't fulfill their obligations I'll come back and but out of good faith I'm assuming they'll be back to comment on it at some point so why should I be badgering them about it? Its almost like you aren't really paying attention to the thread.

For me reads are more effort as town because they actually matter.

[DeasVail]

Nero, you seem quite bothered by my posts. Do you think I’m scum?

[DeasVail]

deas town nice let's go

y is that post townie?

the previous time i played with deas (as t/t) we mindmelded so much that i eventually got paranoid he could be pocketing me (partly thanks to FL encouraging that paranoia, but still)

and his post was pretty close to my thought process when i saw that post from ari, but i also hadn't said it in the thread. the read from her felt kinda rote/obligatory and didn't feel like it really looked deeper at trying to figure out datisi's alignment. and i hadn't really (even mentally) put words to why i felt that, but deas' post i think more or less captured it. i understand that isn't gonna do anything for anyone else but for me it results in a townread

but even beyond that, it's also just a p nuanced view of things that shows he's reading closely and thinking carefully about the posts he's reading, and imo the fact that he felt compelled to post about it before doing his main thoughts/catchup just feels like a towny kind of "this is a point that i actually care about" type thing. that on its own might merit just a slight townlean, bc he could fake that, but it was more the fact that i really vibed with the thought that made it stronger

HEM now that I'm reading it in context and paying closer attention to what DV was saying, I agree with this take. I don't think DV was projecting Datisi mindset as a means of pocket or WKing but was rather pursuing an Ari sort/read and making a novel and compelling callout. I think especially if I consider it in context of Datisi not really having a lot of thread pressure on him / seeming more comfortable as well, I wasn't really sure if there was a lot of votes/suspicion on Datisi at this stage or anything in which case this would be more convenient timing for that pop in

This would be a very narrow thing to base a read of me on though. Fireisred gets away with it because of our previous game, but you seem to be, I suppose, dismissing the read on me rather than actually trying to sort me

[DeasVail]

probably, yes

Cool

UNVOTE:

[DeasVail]

????

I unvoted

[DeasVail]

Your scumread on me seems superficial but not inauthentic

[DeasVail]

cool, who is your next fake push going to be on?

Maybe I’ll go for you again idk

[DeasVail]

I have faith in your ability to fool them

Hmm, seems like a trap.

Who do you think I should fake push? Ari?

[DeasVail]

I think you should fake push who you think you can mislim or at least hedge on. I also think you should do your own work. I'm anxious to see what you can manufacture.

Okay I’ll think about it. Be back in a couple of hours

[DeasVail]

People I am considering as scum currently:

Juice, HEM, Aristeia, Firebringer, Gamma, GuiltyLion, Skitter, VP Baltar

But I don't feel strongly enough about any of them right in this moment to make a proper (or even a fake) push.

--

Regarding the Datisi townread, when I've seen Datisi stressed as scum it has come across more subtly than posts such as 308, which seems to more obviously communicate him being annoyed. 311 and 529 and 540 continue to focus on being misunderstood on a single thing. I think Datisi as scum in this instance would compensate by trying to look town in other ways rather than be fixated on righting this one wrong - (reason for this is that people are generally not going to "like" the fact that Datisi continues to try defending this one point even though imo it's more townie than scummy depending on the player)

[DeasVail]

Juice, HEM, Aristeia, Firebringer, Gamma, GuiltyLion, Skitter, VP Baltar

why ari
why juice wtf i dont remember them posting

I don't either

[DeasVail]

DV I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on GL and baltar

Baltar is one of the weaker suspects of that list, but the early ?suspicion? of datisi and description of whatever Datisi's post was as a reaction test, followed by a lack of much evident effort to clarify his read of Datisi since, feels a bit strange. I could imagine that Baltar as scum would prefer to avoid just easily townreading a town-Datisi, but here he almost seems to be... avoiding the topic.

GL's approach to reads so far feels more surface-level than I expect GL's reads to be. In a few cases he appears to only really pick one thing out and base a read around that rather than considering the player as a whole, which I think could be a scum approach.
Example Scum mindset: Find good material -> form read
Town mindset: Consider player in question -> What alignment do I think they are and why?

The most prominent examples for GL imo are his dismissive not-scum-read of me and 953 on Firebringer.

--

Also I noticed that Marci asked why Ari. Ari's read on Datisi does not seem as well thought out as I would expect (which I've already explained to some degree in a previous post) and she hasn't really done anything otherwise that makes me think she's town.

[DeasVail]

Actually stronger town on fireisred. As scum, they would probably put up more of an act around being suspicious of me

Why you specifically?

The one previous game we played together fire was actually quite suspicious of how much we mind-melded, and I think it would be more intuitive for scum-fire to replicate that.

ALSO, them calling me out as town felt very premature and definitely caught a few glances. It brought needless attention for scum, somewhat locks fire-scum into townreading a difficult but potential mislim and honestly makes a lot of sense coming from fire as town in this game.

[DeasVail]

this feels like the deasvail i’ve played w before so town

I think you're town too!

[DeasVail]

at least I hope so. would be a nice change

[DeasVail]

no you didn't ask to be insulted and you didn't deserve to be insulted in the way that you were insulted. That's not what I am saying at all.

from her POV, you said

"I feel like Marci town here is more likely to give a tonally aggressive response? like "stupid asusuka i dont have green hair" or something. she feels slightly uncomfortable"

and she thought you meant town!marci would be more mean/aggro to you; so um she went super aggro on you.

like one insult is obviously more hurtful than another insult but I don't think she can tell the difference[or at least I hope she can't >.>]

I'm sorry but I can only repeat to you that there is context to this you do not understand. If you need clarification, message me postgame. I won't escalate this any further in the game thread and hopefully this will be my last post on the subject. Goodnight.

Ausuka, I just want to say: I enjoy your presence in games. I appreciate you. Hopefully things are less heated tomorrow. Let's talk then.

<3

gm! (or good afternoon ig)

i dont have anything in specific i want to talk about rn which feels awkward

what do you wish you were doing today instead of whatever it is you are doing?

[DeasVail]

Baltar is one of the weaker suspects of that list, but the early ?suspicion? of datisi and description of whatever Datisi's post was as a reaction test, followed by a lack of much evident effort to clarify his read of Datisi since, feels a bit strange. I could imagine that Baltar as scum would prefer to avoid just easily townreading a town-Datisi, but here he almost seems to be... avoiding the topic.

How strong would you say your town read of datisi is right now?

uhhh.... not as strong as I'm pretending it is

[DeasVail]

this feels like the deasvail i’ve played w before so town

I think you're town too!

i’m town this time i swear

it's okay I will try not to waver again

[DeasVail]

what do you wish you were doing today instead of whatever it is you are doing?

idk im playing mafia while pretending to do work

its pretty alright


--

i feel like some of the townreads being thrown around right now are a little too free, but maybe im just overly paranoid. i dont feel like elaborating on that at this time though

I feel like I often pretend to play mafia while working, so your arrangement sounds a lot better I agree

[DeasVail]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

I have thoughts and stuff but not really the time/energy to say more right now.

[DeasVail]

This would be a very narrow thing to base a read of me on though. Fireisred gets away with it because of our previous game, but you seem to be, I suppose, dismissing the read on me rather than actually trying to sort me

I think you're reading something into my post that isn't there, I was giving HEM a follow up to my initial response to his question about that post in 925. You're correct I am not trying to sort you with that post, I am not trying to give or justify a townread on you there either

I don't really like the suggestion in your later post that just because I'm not actively trying to sort you means I'm not actively trying to sort in general.

I had 20+ pages to catch up on last night and I was stoned, and I didn't have any major issues with anything you had posted. If HEM hadn't asked I probably wouldn't have commented on you at all. That doesn't mean sorting isn't or won't happen, give it time

I think it was a reasonable interpretation given you were agreeing with a post by fire that was explaining a townread on me.

The part I've bolded also feels like cheap shade. I provided your suspicion on Firebringer as an example as well and I still think your progression on Firebringer rings hollow, as if you're pretending to care about it more than you are (see: you telling FB that they should do more or there will be problems, as you move your vote to Eiralox)

[DeasVail]

aww you cant hang around?

What did you want me to hang around for?

[DeasVail]

no, his time is divided between here and the mafia pt.

A few people townread me now, so you're probably going to have to do better than that

[DeasVail]

I know, it's a bit of a trolly comment. Just say that you are sorting and they town read you. I told you it was going to be easy to fool them.

how does it make you feel?

[DeasVail]

talking to me about datisi

So Datisi makes no attempt to pressure my slot even though he admits it's scummy, and didn't attempt to parse even further when prompted by Nero. No hot takes and no solves, just unproductive questions thus far.
Ari frames her narrative that she "forced" her readslist and pretends it's the scummiest thing to notice that it's bullshit and OMGUSes me.

I don't see how these slots could be town.

So Datisi makes no attempt to pressure my slot even though he admits it's scummy, and didn't attempt to parse even further when prompted by Nero. No hot takes and no solves, just unproductive questions thus far.

this is like, one of those times where i want to ask - what do you expect me to pressure you about? your slot is scummy because you dropped into the game, made a pretty much meme push on me, threw weak questions at ari, and left when she voted you. there is nothing to parse there, you and i both know that you're a better scum player than that, so it's not like i can actually draw a "well he's scum completely fucking up the game, gg" conclusion from that. and the only possible pressure i can put on you is general "what are your reads", which like. i find more value in seeing what you come up with yourself than what you come up with if i'm yelling at you about it.

Content to just push on players who are getting attention thrown their way and I haven't really gotten the impression that it's a town tell of "Pressuring for information" from them.

i have seriously pushed two (2) people, only one of which could even be classified as someone getting attention their way (and even then i was the first to pressure them!) so this is a bunch of bullshit

why is it not noob town trying to scumhunt?

tell me you didn't understand my post without telling me - because town, noob or otherwise, isn't capable of getting cognitively overloaded. andeven if it were a reaction test, noob town isn't gonna do such a complex reaction test. and deasvail isn't a noob. so like what is the point of this question.

Datisi hasn't pressured me actually. Which makes me suspicious because if Datisi remembers me as the one who "ripped through town" in that one game, then he must have due cause to pressure me. Also, when prompted by Nero, he gave up assessing my meta at the mere sight of the word "daddy". I believe Datisi would have spent some proper time sorting me. Datisi is also bolder to announce his reads, however bad. He also tries to create a townblock in my experience. That doesn't happen here. His participation does not influence this game, which is pinging my bottom.

oh bOY WHEre to start

there is nothing to pressure you on. i remember you as a good scum player, yes. so when i see a good scum player shitting the bed, that doesn't make me wanna pressure them, that makes me wanna leave them alone to see what is up. and you had no substance for me to pressure you over anyway.

i don't do second-hand meta, i've said this many times in prior games. i never intended to actually read your iso there or whatever, i just opened it because i bored and wanted to see if anything interesting would catch my attention. the beginning of your iso did. so i made a funny post about it. then i lost interest in it.

have i not been announcing my reads? and like, "he tries to create a townblock and he's not doing that here" is kinda bad reasoning because we played 2 micro blitz games like 2 years ago, where i wasn't constantly getting shit on from the get-go. do you think that maybe, just maybe, any of those factors influence the way i play? of course you don't, you jumped to "datisi scum" because you need some bullshit to push

I assume Datisi is able to create a townblock because that's how i remember his playstyle in early games.

9-player games
that had a 3-day deadline
where i wasn't getting constantly shit on right out of the gate

bruh

this is how he responded to me before and i want you to take a look at it. also with the way he addressed it in the mafia pt. whats ur take

I think that datisi's response to you in the Go game is quite different from how he is here.

I also am definitely overstating my ability to read Datisi, but I remember thinking in the Go game that he seemed more on edge and wish that I had followed up that suspicion at the time rather than letting it slide. Part of my thinking here is that I think the posts you quote above from that game are actually examples of Datisi trying harder to be read as town than he is here.

[DeasVail]

that people are town reading you? mostly eh...but maybe a little upset b/c I think you are fairly scummy.


It's also a little funny b/c aren't all the town reads on you for basically the same reason?

that is true now that you mention it

[DeasVail]

because I don't see how I can meaningfully address those accusations or engage with you on them.

scamper, let me into your head a bit, why did you feel compelled to respond to my case on you?

hmmm

The second quote would indicate that you don't see it as a necessary thing for someone to respond to accusations, so why are you then complaining about not being able to address my accusations?

[DeasVail]

In response to GL's questions

what's missing from me here that you think you would see from me as town that would demonstrate that I "care"?

I think I've explained that the process behind the development of your reads appears to be based on superficialities rather than deeper thought. I chose the examples I did because Firebringer had appeared to be your biggest scumread and a read on me is more likely for me to engage on. You say that I've disregarded your other posts but I can assure you that I haven't.

For further clarity, I think the below quote

Fire I am willing to put a pause on you for now but I am taking you at your word that you are going to start actually doing real & useful things at some point and if you don't we are gonna have issues my man

Is more fit to the purpose of demonstrating that you still care about your Firebringer read, than actually achieving something useful for you as town. If Firebringer is scum, they're going to act like scum. If they're busy, then they're going to be busy. It just seems weird to make a threat like that, unless it's to make your switch to Eiralox look better.

--

like, assume that I'm town for a sec, what do you actually expect from me to say in reply to this to help you read me correctly?

I think the actual content of replies to suspicion is not very useful. I planned to progress my read of you based on

how

you replied and also just further general observations of your play. The barrage of complaints doesn't really make me feel better about your alignment being town. Either you think I'm scum (which is not reallly the impression I'm getting), in which case what's the point in complaining, or you think I'm wrong town, in which case from your perspective you shouldn't have much to worry about because surely you'll convince me that you're town with your play over time, right?

A) are you townreading Eirolox
B) Are you now saying by voting me that you're more confident that I am scum than you are on either of them?

Yes, I had a very mild townread on Eiralox after their HEM vote. It seemed unusual for scum to make a vote without saying anything long after two previous posts of non-content. I don't really stand strongly by this thought and can't argue against people saying that they seem different from previous games as town, but I feel more confident in you being scum because at this point I could really just see Eiralox's alignment flipping either way. I don't have much reason to believe FB is town but I think their less involved play is just as easily explained by them being busy rather than scum.

--

In response to your more recent posts, I think the zeroing in is inevitable because I was hardly going to be talking about all of your posts. I also am sure that you can come up with some nuanced takes as scum, but there isn't anything in your play that makes me read you as town, and so the things that I find concerning have more weight.

Another interesting thing is that skitter's multiple posts about you feeling off was also suspicion that you couldn't respond to/engage with and yet your complaints are about me.

[DeasVail]

I think maybe if you are town you have an idea that town!me should be really invested in pushing my top scumread or whatever

that is definitely not my thought

the switch was only suspicious because you needed to threaten firebringer in the process

[DeasVail]

Another interesting thing is that skitter's multiple posts about you feeling off was also suspicion that you couldn't respond to/engage with

also I did engage with skitter? several times 888, 904, 908, 1107

I had missed 888 and skitter's engagement with you prior to that, apologies.

[DeasVail]

I don't feel satsified, but there's nothing more I want to explore right now. I'll need to sit on the read and see if I still the same way after that.

Happy to engage on anything that you/anyone else needs from me though

[DeasVail]

It's cool, I'm feeling a bit less kerfuffled by you now and this may risk sounding like scummy bravado but I'm feeling more secure than I was earlier that this won't be a game long Issue after this lil back and forth

I'd be curious for if you have any takes on scampers case on Irrelephant. I think your TR on Eiralox is premature but I'm mostly just waiting for Eiralox to come to thread

I think it's a good case though I don't agree with the outcome. The most compelling part of it for me is 571.

[DeasVail]

I'll give it a look over at somepoint but in our last game where he pushed me as scum (we were both town) he didn't reset despite my pushback.

huh?

[DeasVail]

Just a heads up that my activity is going to be limited over the next few days but I’ll be checking in as I can

[DeasVail]

I am okay with the gamma wagon

[DeasVail]

I’m going to have to

v/la for 2 days

Apologies

[DeasVail]

I will be able to catch up properly within the next 24 hours but my initial feels are that Dann is town. Do I have reason for it? Not really, but maybe I will later.

Conman I could go either way on and I’ll need to do a bit more of a read.

I’m stiiill comfortable with the vote on GL and a lot of his posts make me twitch a bit but I’m not going to be passionately advocating for that until I’ve had a chance to really think about it because obviously confirmation bias can be a thing

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE:

[DeasVail]

Idk:

Deasvail

<3

[DeasVail]

[Ausuka, scamper, xofelf, ydrasse]
[HEM, Aristeia, fireisred, obscure, relly]
[Datisi, Dannflor, Firebringer]
[Nero Cain, VP Baltar, GuiltyLion, Frogsterking]
[Gamma, Marci, Conman]

[DeasVail]

Obviously Dannflor's place in my reads cluster means I do not have a confident read on the slot, but I remember someone speaking negatively of the following quote:

they were like, sorry my brain is overloaded and dipped. they didn't try and were perfectly content about that. they were a townie who got overwhelmed by the volume of the game.

And I actually am reading it as town because I think it would feel pretty awkward saying that as scum. I think scum would feel like they are PROTESTING too much.

--

PEdit: Now that you've asked that I've actually changed my mind. I

did

think that their posting as a general rule felt less like light-hearted fun and more like trying to look a certain way. I think posts like 1799 and 1800 felt performative to me, but on ISO it does actually feel looser than I remembered.

[DeasVail]

I hate that both Gamma and Deas are calling con scum but not voting there

I'm not voting anywhere

[DeasVail]

Nero btw you still need to show me that mystical last game we played where I suspected you and didn't back down

[DeasVail]

deas, is there a reason why you are not voting anyone at this moment in time

50% because I've only just finished reading up on the game and want to ISO conman and gamma before choosing a vote
50% because people always get really weird about people not voting and it's kind of fun

[DeasVail]

And I actually am reading it as town because I think it would feel pretty awkward saying that as scum. I think scum would feel like they are PROTESTING too much.

that was me and i did indeed feel like he's protesting too much

maybe i'm just like too surface level, but i don't really think the read makes much sense from a genuine mindset because scum flake out all the time

pedit: if i had to guess he's probably eating humans

yeah I think that's a reasonable take

I guess my view is that the only reason Dann-scum would post that would be because he thought it would make him look town, and my leaning is that he as scum wouldn't have actually thought that.
But I'm also not convinced by my reasoning.

[DeasVail]

Why post a readslist and then say you need to do ISOs?

Structuring reads helps give me a starting point from which I can adjust them according to new information/review of previous posts.

Otherwise it's all just mush and I get lost in my head.

I guess I could not post my draft reads list, but I felt like posting it at the time

[DeasVail]

[Gamma, Marci, Conman]

im not scum

DV talk to me about Marci please I am townreading her right now

why do u tr me even LMAO im living my best life!!

???

I don't think this is that unusual

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[DeasVail]

For me the deciding factor is multiple instances where Gamma has posted in such a way that is displaying outrage/disbelief in response to a certain/person event that is actually benign to the point where I struggle to believe that she can feel so passionate about it.

798

2111 through 2114

And more recently the ??? at marci

[DeasVail]

gamma does that, like, all the time though

I don't have the luxury of having played multiple recent games with gamma, but from games I am aware it matches my impression of scum-gamma more than town-gamma. If there are equivalent examples of gamma-town doing it I would be willing to reevaluate.

PEdit: thanks for the link, but it is not quite an example of what I mean

[DeasVail]

VP I also had the thought of a lot of GL’s posts being busy work, but I don’t think it’ll take off Day 1 (also I probably need more time on that read)

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ConmanMick

I think CMM is more likely scum than Gamma at this point.

[DeasVail]

all my scumreads keep pushing each other...

I’m not pushing anybody

[DeasVail]

ok baltar iso thoughts:
- maybe the easiest take here, but i don't think his interaction with datisi felt like partners to me? he felt a little like... worried. like he was kinda poking from a distance out of a sense of obligation but not really fully engaging. it didn't feel like they were on the same page or matching each other's energy
- irrel slot is believable as a partner here. nothing too bad tho
- same goes for firebringer slot
- i don't really see the marci read as clearing @scamper?
- the GL thing ehh i kinda am leaning town GL now, don't find the S/S take as compelling as i did originally
- i kinda get the feeling the way he interacted with the major wagons of the day means that one of them was on scum but im not really sure which. v helpful i know. he just felt slightly uncomfortable at times later in the day when he was sorting out which direction to go, like he needed to do some sort of action beyond what he would normally just do to get townread

I hard agree with Datisi town yeah

Leaning town on GL too because it felt like he was trying to stir up suspicion on GL by piggy-backing on my (likely incorrect) read.

[DeasVail]

I hard agree with Datisi town yeah

why hard agree

They would have been having a lot more fun with each other as scum imo

[DeasVail]

Spoiler: deasvail

my impressions of DV have soured. I had originally skimmed his spat with GL and just thought ooh towny posts but revisiting them I feel that they drift a little too performative

I don't feel satsified, but there's nothing more I want to explore right now. I'll need to sit on the read and see if I still the same way after that.

Happy to engage on anything that you/anyone else needs from me though

there's just moments like these that make me feel like DV is trying to put on the air of having shifting reads and thoughts without actually having a towny trajectory. Like he's a little too conscious about needing the "correct" amount of time and space to change his read on GL when I feel like the more towny response would've just been to not care about it and be like oh okay I'm feeling better about you now GL.

I mean maybe DV really just needs time to "sit with his read"

I will be able to catch up properly within the next 24 hours but my initial feels are that Dann is town. Do I have reason for it? Not really, but maybe I will later.

Conman I could go either way on and I’ll need to do a bit more of a read.

I’m stiiill comfortable with the vote on GL and a lot of his posts make me twitch a bit but I’m not going to be passionately advocating for that until I’ve had a chance to really think about it because obviously confirmation bias can be a thing

VP I also had the thought of a lot of GL’s posts being busy work, but I don’t think it’ll take off Day 1 (

also I probably need more time on that read

)

Leaning town on GL too because it felt like he was trying to stir up suspicion on GL by piggy-backing on my (likely incorrect) read.

Twice more throughout the day DV reiterates that he needs more time with the read, and then he opens today by saying he's town leaning GL because scum agreed with him. It just feels like DV was looking for a reason to back out of that read and finally found one if that makes sense? It fits the overall profile of scum who has chosen a high-profile player to hard push in order to look towny a lot more than say Ausuka's push on Datisi. The trajectory just seems faked?

idk

@DV

I'd like to hear from you more on why Baltar made you swing your read in the opposite direction. Because it feels like none of your actual concerns with GL was addressed, you just kept claiming you might be wrong.

The VP flip is new information that honestly supersedes my original read. I obviously had reasons for suspecting GL but it’s not like those concerns are ever going to be “addressed”. It’s a matter of me deciding “do my reasons for suspecting GL still hold up, or have subsequent events proven that my read is probably wrong?”

Dann, if I were town here, would you expect me to still be scumreading GL? Do you still scumread GL?

[DeasVail]

Dann, if I were town here, would you expect me to still be scumreading GL? Do you still scumread GL?

I don't *town read* GL

Can you elaborate more on what parts of Baltar's play makes you think GL is town?

I don’t have anything more to elaborate on in regards to that. My thoughts are pretty much what I stated. I was suspicious of GL (and there were a few others unsure about him). VP comes in at a time when there are multiple competing wagons and is like “how about GL?” It feels needlessly risky from a buddy and more designed to fuel existing paranoia on the GL slot.

In regards to current reads etc. My engagement is pretty superficial at the moment and Marci is a read I’m not sure on. I’ll hopefully have more on that tonight

[DeasVail]

From a quick skim, I think I would vote Dann over Marci

[DeasVail]

Can your engagement get less superficial tho

Eventually, as life allows.

Why does it matter to you?

[DeasVail]

Is that a real question?

Why does it matter to me that a player in the mafia game I am playing is engaged in that game?

Doesn't feel like a real question.

Lol

No, it really is a real question.

If town is asking a question, I expect there to be a reason for it, an anticipated outcome. Scum just ask questions for the sake of it, or to look town. Is that what you did?

[DeasVail]

No I would like you to play this game more. That is why I asked the question.

And this knee jerk reaction seems kind of bizarre to me considering my interaction pattern today is far from that of a player who is desperately making busy work in order to find things to talk about.

But it’s easy for scum to say that someone should play the game more because it seems like a “generally good idea”. But in reality, what does a town player asking that actually expect to have happen? From your perspective, my reasons for lesser engagement could be alignment-related or other-commitment-related, neither of which are going to be influenced by you asking me to be more engaged. So my thoughts follow a path of “hmm does town actually think that’s a useful post to make, or is it scum just saying things?”

I don’t scumread it in and of itself, but it’s something worth probing imo, especially since you’re a slot i townread that has suspicion from others

[DeasVail]

And also I just decided I'd like to vote you to maybe maybe "life allow" a little more quickly.

VOTE: DeasVail

I’m pretty busy at the moment dude. This is me sneaking in some posts on a lunch break so I don’t think you’re going to get much more out of me right now.

[DeasVail]

And also I just decided I'd like to vote you to maybe maybe "life allow" a little more quickly.

VOTE: DeasVail

I’m pretty busy at the moment dude. This is me sneaking in some posts on a lunch break so I don’t think you’re going to get much more out of me right now.

Then die?

This seems weirdly aggressive.

Also, engaging with people is a way to help me get engaged in the game as well. Also fwiw, the interaction has helped me solidify my townread you. My goals are not always going to be totally clear. Anyway that’s it from me. Be back later

[DeasVail]

As I indicated would likely happen earlier, I have tonight had time to catch up on the game and provide my thoughts. I will be doing this in the form of describing my reads on players, with a short summary of my reasoning for each read. Further discussion on any particular read is also welcome!

Strong Townreads

thestatusquo (Shea)

- There are several incredibly town aspects of Shea's play here, to the point where I highly doubt they are faked. There is a strong sense of Shea viewing their opinions and impact on the game as important, they truly seem bothered when others aren't paying attention to their reads/posts (see: self-vote and surrounding posts), and there is a transparent difficulty in understanding when someone views or plays the game in a way that is different from how Shea thinks the game should be viewed/played. For scum, this stuff just wouldn't

matter

, and it would be a whole lot of effort to consistently pretend that it does in the way Shea has.

[okay I have tried but I don't feel confident enough to put anyone else in the strong townread box oops]

--

Moderate Townreads

Ausuka

- Ausuka's play blends humour, light-heartedness and actual legitimate scumhunting in a way that comes across as natural and I think would be difficult for scum to keep up for as long as Ausuka has. This as reasoning for a read is more vague than I would have liked it to be, but it's because I remember multiple points during reading through where I have thought that a post by Ausuka was town and am not huuugely motivated to go back and find them rn considering that explaining my reads on other people is probably more of a priority.

scamper

- Similar to Ausuka in that the read is one that has generally built up from his posts over the course of the game, but particularly notable was the original Irrelephant case, which came at a time when there was not actually much suspicion on the slot at all. Also being the first (I think) to express the suspicion that Obscure is not new to forum mafia (and is pretending otherwise) is another example of a hot take that I feel scum could be hestitant to express.

Datisi

- Light townread for earlier stuff that I expressed during Day 1 (posts from Datisi that felt more like being frustrated with not being listened to rather than frustrated by being correctly suspected) and a stronger townread for.... imo very likely not being scum with VPB. I think the general expectation is that VPB and Datisi would interact a lot so I would have expected more focus on "interacting" if they were scum together (I was thinking Day 1 that there was less back-and-forth between them than I would have expected), plus in hindsight whilst VPB's posts @datisi often feel targeted, Datisi's posts about VPB are just more chaotic. Example 1939 where Datisi's read on VPB fits exactly what I would expect of town-Datisi there, but scum-Datisi with scum-VPB would probably feel self-conscious about waffling too much on his read of a partner.

humaneatingmonkey

- Pet theory of me and Datisi being scum together seems genuine, especially with them still trying to explore that idea on Day 2. Also, I was reading a recent game where HEM was scum and their play seemed a lot more focused on trying to manipulat the gamestate than it is here. Also Ari was in that game, correctly scumread HEM, and townread HEM here.

fireisredsir

- fire's early expression of a townread on me was probably less beneficial for scum because it was the kind of thing that would attract attention and was different from our previous game together where fire was wary of me. Fire's expression of a mild townread on me since then makes total sense based on me being more peripheral but, again, does not necessarily make sense for scum when I expressed I was townreading fire for NOT doing that. Also fire's posts and takes have been the kind that I've very often found myself nodding along to, which.. is reassuring! (I'm just sorry that I have not been actively posting enough for it to be much of a mutual thing)

GuiltyLion

- Stuff I've talked about recently re: likely not being partners with VPB

--

Weak Townreads

Obscure

- Whether Obscure has experience in forum mafia or not is not something that I want to place too much signifcance in. I like the consistency of Obscure's suspicion on me and then acting on it in 3245. I also actually think the naked vote is townie in this case because Obscure's previous posting gives me the impression that Obscure if scum here would think it important to back up his assertions with reasoning, so would probably feel self-conscious as scum just putting a vote on me without clearly explaining it. I also kind of like the awkwardness of assuming fire-town in 2978. The reason why Obscure is only a weak townread for me is because I am a bit concerned by their D1 end-of day posts 2511 and 2518 because it looks quite a bit like trying too hard to look uninformed. I am conflicted!

Nero Cain

- I was actually thinking Nero could be scum, but then I saw a post where they said I was off the table for them today which is just bizarre from scum. Why would scum do that? Why would scum not want me eliminated today?

xofelf

- It feels like town xofelf? and the reads they have expressed are expressed in the way that I would expect xofelf as town to express reads. I initially thought things like xofelf's post on fire (which kind of went beyond purely reasons to town/scum-read) were super town but I'm keeping open in the back of my mind the possibility that a more psychological approach is actually a mechanism for xof-scum to fake scumhunting. Do I really think this? No. Xofelf is probably town and I expect this will become more apparent, but I'm having a moment of paranoia rn.

Ydrasse

- Still feels a lot looser in playstyle than when I've seen Ydrasse as scum before but I'm just not as struck by Ydrasse's posts being town as I was early Day 1. All my moderate townreads are stronger so Ydrasse goes here.

Dannflor

- I like Dannflor's Shea read and while I was suspicious of their read on me "souring", I was suspicious because I thought it was from scum preparing to have me as a miselim option. Their follow-up questions instead come across as curious rather than aimed at a particular outcome.

--

Not Townreads

Frogsterking

- I don't really know how to read Frogsterking, but in my experience the time for Frogsterking to die is when I read the other people in the game as more town than him and we are getting to that point.

Gamma Emerald

- I haven't seen anything making Gamma more likely to be town than I thought he was Day 1. I also don't like 2803 and the focus on either-or pairs. It doesn't seem like real scumhunting to me, and instead a possibly scummy way of making the reads feel more natural than they actually are.

marcistar

- I don't know what to think and I'm sorry.

Something_Smart

- Firebringer said they were scum and S_S says that he's not.

--

As you can see I have very low confidence in my not-townreads, but at the same time everyone in moderate-townread land and above I feel pretty good about and even some of my weak townreads I feel guilty about putting them where I have. Sometimes indifference is the biggest indicator of being right on a scumread I suppose?

VOTE: Frogsterking

It just feels like the best path to me. Maybe I'll have more words for it later.

[DeasVail]

Dv as someone who has never played with Xofelf can you talk about your xofelf meta

uhhh that is a very good question and one that I'm not sure I can answer well, but I'll give it a go.

My experience with xofelf is much more through a personal friendship and survivor games than through mafia games.

I have only played one previous game with xofelf where we were both town, and (I think?) correctly identified each other as such by the end of the game. In that game, xofelf perhaps put their trust in people too easily, but expressed reads in a similar way to how they have done here.

I don't have experience with xofelf as mafia, but I do have experience with xofelf having something to hide, where they tend to be more vague and evasive, with the proviso that this may not necessarily apply to mafia games, and it's been quite a while since I've had an interaction with xofelf where they did have something to hide.

For example, the isochecks were more proactive than I would have expected xofelf to be as scum and my slight paranoid feelings are probably because there just hasn't been enough of that to reassure me.

[DeasVail]

I think Nero’s points on the relly posts are decent but in a more general sense I think there is risk in frustration with Shea’s play turning into scumreading Shea’s play.

[DeasVail]

redfire what are your reads rn?

prob most interested in looking for scum in dann, shea, SS, marci rn. a slight level below that would be xofelf and gamma

strongest TRs on ausuka, scamper, you. not quite as strong on datisi, hem, obscure, ydra, frog. then DV and GL are kinda weak townleans ig

i think thats everyone

okay this is funny
our strongest TRs line up but aside from that there's notable variance
I think I'll pencil in fire as town for this

I think Fire is town too but this seems like a very superficial reason for reading them as town and prone to bias. (I.e. what if your townreads are wrong etc)

[DeasVail]

it's possible. I'm not an emotionless robot.

That was not so much directed at you because your reasoning feels more targeted at vp/relly stuff which I don’t really oppose for reasons other than shea being town

[DeasVail]

And also I just decided I'd like to vote you to maybe maybe "life allow" a little more quickly.

VOTE: DeasVail

I’m pretty busy at the moment dude. This is me sneaking in some posts on a lunch break so I don’t think you’re going to get much more out of me right now.

Then die?

This seems weirdly aggressive.

Also, engaging with people is a way to help me get engaged in the game as well. Also fwiw, the interaction has helped me solidify my townread you. My goals are not always going to be totally clear. Anyway that’s it from me. Be back later

DV - why did this interaction make you townread Shea

I don't really vibe with Shea's push on you at all here, especially I think 3294 suggesting that your 3284 and 3286 is an "attack" felt like embellishment of what you did

I agree that it was embellishment but that’s not scummy imo. Shea felt attacked because I wasn’t behaving in the way that they wanted me to. I think town are more likely to expect that townies should do what they want them to, while scum obviously know that they are scum and so are less less likely to get offended by not being considered as important as they think they are.

Also re: your question on Frogster, I don’t think “viability” is that at important at this stage of the day. I would happily consider an elim on S_S but it’s also relatively early on in S_S’s period of engagement with the game.

[DeasVail]

Hence my concern that people are conflating Shea-frustrating with Shea-scummy

PEdit:

Historically I’ve actually been a lot better at identifying scum as a vig or serial killer. Frogsterking is the sort of player I would shoot if I were a vig, hence my vote.

[DeasVail]

Historically I’ve actually been a lot better at identifying scum as a vig or serial killer. Frogsterking is the sort of player I would shoot if I were a vig, hence my vote.

I consider this a non-answer. Dease has only played one game with me and I was scum.

I don’t see what that has to do with my answer

[DeasVail]

I think with Frogster there is risk of dismissing him as town because he’s weird (which is much like what happened in my previous game with him)

[DeasVail]

Historically I’ve actually been a lot better at identifying scum as a vig or serial killer. Frogsterking is the sort of player I would shoot if I were a vig, hence my vote.

I consider this a non-answer. Dease has only played one game with me and I was scum.

In my experience scum players tend to lean into "oh Frog is anti Town/doesn't make sense" as an excuse to plant a wagon on me. I believe the fact Dease has only played one game with me (where I was scum) would make them more curious about sorting my slot in this game if they were Town. Also, unlike some players like Dats, fire or S_S, Dease wasn't present in any games where I went full A-WOL as town!Frog, so I find it difficult to believe Dease actually thinks brain-off killing Frog is a solid approach to sorting the game.

Why do you not think my vote on you is a way of sorting you?

[DeasVail]

I don’t really like the timing of the suspicion on me and using my vote on CMM as an example of me being scummy. It just feels like an easy thing to point to when in reality it probably wouldn’t have made much difference to scum-me if I were on the conman wagon or not

I guess I just assumed you were because you said you find me suspicious because of others scum reads on me and a large portion of those scum reads on me comes from rellys vote on conman. I'm not going to go check that you actually said those specific words but I thought it was implied. If that's not why you find my slot suspicious I'm all ears.

Also I want to apologize for using the term idiot. It's ableist and I need to get better at checking myself on that shit.

1291 is a better explanation of why your slot is suspicious. Apparently the behavior laid out in #1291

is

NAI for elephant. Weird.

I'm now expecting to find Dease was positioned EoD on the CMM wagon for highly dubious reasons.

[DeasVail]

I think with Frogster there is risk of dismissing him as town because he’s weird (which is much like what happened in my previous game with him)

the thing with Frog is I find his reads to be genuine and largely aligning with mine so I don't really see what reason there is to be suspicious of him and don't really remember any good ones being presented

Oh the main reason for me is that I don’t think there’s anything that town about him.

[DeasVail]

Interesting that DeasV was also in that game. DV could you compare and contrast the play of frogsterking in that game with this one?

Sorry, I missed this post, and it's actually kind of convenient that I've noticed it now because Frogster's alignment (and what it is) is something very much on my mind at the moment. My recollection of Frogster in that game was that he was lurky for the period that Datisi was in the game, however he had a burst of activity at the start and was actually quite active towards the end of the game as well, so I'm not sure if the period of lurkiness was actually that alignment-relevant.
One thing that I am noticing on a re-read is that Frogster's various theories in that other game seemed more... wild.. than here. Other than that I can't really identify a significant difference, but maybe that is a significant difference? I don't know. A lot of Frogster's posts just seem to be saying things without a convincing (to me) trajectory or conviction.

[DeasVail]

When it comes down to it, there's not much in it for me between frogster/gamma/S_S/marci. I don't feel passionate about limming any of them, but I feel good enough about my townreads that limming any of them is probably fine?

Would be keen to hear more from obscure though.

[DeasVail]

I am slightly bothered by the "hopefully I wake up to the dead thread" sort of stuff but again, I sort of have difficulty seeing the scum-motivation

[DeasVail]

basically frog is one of the people i have no baseline expectations of and i'm not confident meta on him will actually be useful because i don't understand him at all. i think there are differences between the two games but nothing clearing

yeah pretty much

[DeasVail]

wtf

is this just a reaction for the sake of reacting?

[DeasVail]

like "ooo, I'll just post "wtf" because it'll seem like I'm acting natural and stuff"

why the "wtf" post otherwise?

[DeasVail]

idk basically yes but i dont think too deeply so kinda no as well

the wtf was my reaction to ausukas "wall with no conclusion" but i judt didnt wanna be rude abt it..

okay...

I mean,

do you have a conclusion?

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: marcistar

[DeasVail]

I am not that busy anymore btw so you can hold me accountable for stuff rather than saying I'm not doing anything because i'm busy

[DeasVail]

I’ll be catching up over the next couple of hours!

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Gamma

[DeasVail]

the thing I like about obscure right now is he feels earnest to me in this fixation on DV. I know "why me instead of [x]" is usually a scummy response but I get the sense scum!obscure would be making more noise about S_S or Dann, instead he's largely rebuffed voting those players and is pushing his own vanity scumread that doesn't have any real traction at the moment

I kind of agree with this. There's also an inconsistency in Obscure's push on me (suspects me for having difficulty with getting scumreads, while earlier said it wouldn't be that hard for him as scum because it's Mafia 101), which is more often townie than not. Scum (esp. newer scum imo) try harder to make sure their posts and reads are consistent.

[DeasVail]

SS is avoiding interacting with the thread and is shading my slot, and hasn't given any believable reason why they're playing this way.

I definitely did not get the sense that S_S was avoiding interacting with the thread

[DeasVail]

My reservation with HEM is that I'm not sure that their play here is trying all that hard to look like town, which is the sense I have gotten from seeing HEM as scum previously. Here it seems more like they are just mucking around and having fun without actually caring all that much.
I'm interested in seeing the reaction to the wagon, but not all that interested in seeing HEM eliminated before that.

[DeasVail]

Frogster, I thought that this was a particularly proactive and useful post from S_S:

the S_S progression was kinda ??? and i don't really buy that he went from, like, 'no compelling reason to vote ss' to doing it so quickly.

what's the scum motivation for doing this?

[DeasVail]

Frogster, I thought that this was a particularly proactive and useful post from S_S:

the S_S progression was kinda ??? and i don't really buy that he went from, like, 'no compelling reason to vote ss' to doing it so quickly.

what's the scum motivation for doing this?

Okay is that it?

You just asked me to quote anything, so I did.

If you wanted more than one thing you should have asked for more than one thing

[DeasVail]

Frogster, I thought that this was a particularly proactive and useful post from S_S:

the S_S progression was kinda ??? and i don't really buy that he went from, like, 'no compelling reason to vote ss' to doing it so quickly.

what's the scum motivation for doing this?

Okay is that it?

You just asked me to quote anything, so I did.

If you wanted more than one thing you should have asked for more than one thing

Touché, I feel like you're being a little bit defensive though.

but you also think that I'm scum, so it makes sense that you would feel that way, right?

[DeasVail]

Touché, I feel like you're being a little bit defensive though.

Defensive isn't the right word. "Hostile" or "Not trying to sort my slot" is how I characterize the brief interactions I've had with you, including this one.

PEdit:

No, what's noticeable more so is the lack of curiosity.

This is the second time where I've directly engaged with you and then you have shut down the engagement by accusing me of not trying to sort you, despite me engaging with you.

It almost feels like... you don't want me to sort you.

[DeasVail]

it also felt off that it took me taunting scamper for him to get into this warpath when i have been his scumread since d1

how do you expect town to respond to being taunted?

[DeasVail]

well you're saying that scamper deciding to push a wagon on you after you taunted him was off, but that seems like a pretty natural reaction

[DeasVail]

Deas do you have a full reads list and if so would you like to show the class?

Town: thestatusquo, ausuka, scamper, datisi, guiltylion, fireisredsir, obscure, nero cain, ydrasse, dannflor
Maybe town: HEM, Enchant, S_S
Not town: Frogsterking, Gamma, Marcistar

[DeasVail]

I refuse to be on the same line with TSQ. Move on of us down.

Town: thestatusquo, ausuka, datisi, guiltylion
Town?: fireisredsir, obscure, nero cain, ydrasse, dannflor, scamper, HEM
Maybe town: Enchant, S_S
Not town: Frogsterking, Gamma, Marcistar

This is another possible variation of my reads. Is that better?

[DeasVail]

I was reading over HEM and I sort of like the juxtaposition of non-serious posting and occasional actual serious pushes that it

feels

like they get excited about. E.g the CMM push.

But the other thing about the CMM push was 2452 where I would more expect scum to be all like "I WILL DIE BY MY CMM READ" rather than be all like "yeah dann or CMM whatever sounds good to me" (paraphrased). I think scum would pretend to care more in HEM's position there.

[DeasVail]

idk the only HEM-town game that I've seen they needed to be saved by a mason claim so maybe I'm underestimating their ability to look town.

[DeasVail]

I do not like this response even a little bit.

I don't buy that HEM even expected to be attacked for his posts. For him to come in and claim it was a master plan to get scum read as a GAMBIT to out all the scum who would VOTE FOR HIM despite the existence of two other wagons that already had momentum is just...a lot to swallow.

tbf HEM did challenge scamper to build the HEM wagon

I am feeling very cautious about my sort-of townread on HEM, but that's not really what's bothering me

PEdit: Nero was talking about my reads list. And it's okay, I moved Nero down.

[DeasVail]

does it feel calculated and does he care about the results

that is the question yeah

[DeasVail]

HEM, please claim

[DeasVail]

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

[DeasVail]

i doubt it

[DeasVail]

also i need to go

UNVOTE: humaneatingmonkey

[DeasVail]

what is a tilt wagon?

[DeasVail]

what is a tilt wagon?

When the towncore goes on tilt and throws away the D2 kill.

why do you think the scumreads on HEM are bad?

[DeasVail]

what is a tilt wagon?

When the towncore goes on tilt and throws away the D2 kill.

why do you think the scumreads on HEM are bad?

It seems like the scum reads come from tilt. I think HEM is good enough to pass for D2.

What do you mean by "good enough"?

[DeasVail]

You seemed more confident in HEM being town here:

yes

can people who naked voted me please drop their reasons for voting tnx

TOWN

What changed?

[DeasVail]

Quoting a post and saying "TOWN" seems like a different level of confidence from "good enough to pass for D2" (the latter of which implies that you would more likely consider eliminating HEM on a later day).

Also if you're basing your reads off the assumption that I'm scum, why not push for my elimination? HEM was more widely townread than me on Day 1. Maybe you could make it happen.

[DeasVail]

If you're accusing me of having wavering levels of self-efficacy then you caught me red-handed.

Can you rephrase this without any psych jargon?

(It doesn't make much sense tbh)

[DeasVail]

I feel a bit hypocritical for saying this but part of me is thinking that maybe we should just eliminate HEM.

[DeasVail]

Ehh I’m not in a rush dw

[DeasVail]

I feel a bit hypocritical for saying this but part of me is thinking that maybe we should just eliminate HEM.

why

Frogster is seeming a bit more townie to me now, plus I think HEM’s play since the wagon formed is more scummy than townie, the refusal to claim particularly so.

[DeasVail]

I will wait for a gamma replacement before voting HEM.

HEM, I await great things from you in the meantime.

[DeasVail]

Yeah I’ve never seen anything like this from them as scum

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Dease

I'm not inflexible:


My cold read on Dease is that they're not vindictive, and I think Dease probably cares little enough about a single loss (Large Normal 238) that it's unlikely to cloud their reads. If my assumptions are correct then Dease progression on my slot is ...bad.

and im just not really convinced that he comes out of that wanting to vote frog? and then stays there while there's wagons on multiple other people in his poe, when he says he doesn't care much which one gets eliminated?

IF Dease or someone else can show that Town!Dease has a tendency to be vindictive, I can believe that Town!Dease was temporarily biased because of their prior experience with me.

I don’t really understand why I need to be “vindictive” to have a scumread on you

[DeasVail]

i agreed with his strongest townreads in 3333 for the most part (the confidence on shea seems too strong tho)

I get the impression from your reads that you think shea is more likely town than not. Why is your approach to a strong townread on Shea one of saying "it's too strong" rather than considering why someone might have that strong townread?

@marci i mean its hard to have a receipt of him not doing something

but here he said this, and never voted SS despite SS being a major wagon (it got to like 6 or 7 at one point?)

When it comes down to it, there's not much in it for me between frogster/gamma/S_S/marci. I don't feel passionate about limming any of them, but I feel good enough about my townreads that limming any of them is probably fine?

Would be keen to hear more from obscure though.

earlier when asked why he didn't vote marci or SS, who were getting wagoned at the time (i think 4 votes on SS), he said this, which is kinda a non-answer:

Also re: your question on Frogster, I don’t think “viability” is that at important at this stage of the day. I would happily consider an elim on S_S but it’s also relatively early on in S_S’s period of engagement with the game.

hey Deas, why did you vote frog instead of your other scum reads that we getting wagoned like SS and Marci?

Historically I’ve actually been a lot better at identifying scum as a vig or serial killer. Frogsterking is the sort of player I would shoot if I were a vig, hence my vote.

i think his interaction with frog about SS could easily be paired with SS as well

Why as scum do you think I made the deliberate choice to avoid the SS wagon?

Also, I don't agree that it is "best mafia play" to always vote for the scumread with the biggest wagon. Towards the end of the day, sure, but why do that at the beginning of the day when wagons are always changing anyway? It just reminds me of kids soccer where everyone is mindlessly chasing the ball.

[DeasVail]

oh hi Deas. I didn't think we said your name 3 times but maybe we did?

Good morning!

[DeasVail]

My preference currently would be Gamma > Something_Smart > Frogsterking (but i don't really want to kill Frogster tbh)

Which is awkward with the gamma replace-out.

[DeasVail]

eh fuck it, VOTE: fireisredsir

I'll be there for a deas wagon if we need me at dl.

i don't really think dv is scum but i'm just kind of tired

and i am increasingly having Concerns about frog

VOTE: S_S

I want these responses to be looked into after Dease flips

Is this fake certainty? idk

[DeasVail]

I get the impression from your reads that you think shea is more likely town than not. Why is your approach to a strong townread on Shea one of saying "it's too strong" rather than considering why someone might have that strong townread?

idk maybe, like your reasons are good reasons and are mostly similar to the reasons i have for townleaning, it just felt weird to me that you didn't have much doubt there. it is possible you are just good at reading him tho. but anyway that wasn't really a significant point in my post

Why as scum do you think I made the deliberate choice to avoid the SS wagon?

i mean the idea that i was suggesting was that you're partners. but if SS is town, another possibility would be that you just want to avoid getting your hands dirty on a town elim. i don't know which it would be

but i do find it very weird that at a point in the game where it felt like the main candidates for elim were shea, who is your strongest townread, and SS, who was in your main elim pool, you never had any interest in voting SS. shea was even saying around that time that he felt like his death as inevitable. wouldn't you want to try to prevent that?

It didn’t seem like there was much intent from people to ELIMINATE at that time. And surely you would agree that shea was being melodramatic?

[DeasVail]

I’ve decided I don’t think Frogster is especially likely as scum to think that my scumread on him is vindictive.

[DeasVail]

VOTE: obscure

How much of this is because obscure is not posting?

Do you think his relative inactivity is alignment-relevant?

[DeasVail]

I get the impression from your reads that you think shea is more likely town than not. Why is your approach to a strong townread on Shea one of saying "it's too strong" rather than considering why someone might have that strong townread?

idk maybe, like your reasons are good reasons and are mostly similar to the reasons i have for townleaning, it just felt weird to me that you didn't have much doubt there. it is possible you are just good at reading him tho. but anyway that wasn't really a significant point in my post

Why as scum do you think I made the deliberate choice to avoid the SS wagon?

i mean the idea that i was suggesting was that you're partners. but if SS is town, another possibility would be that you just want to avoid getting your hands dirty on a town elim. i don't know which it would be

but i do find it very weird that at a point in the game where it felt like the main candidates for elim were shea, who is your strongest townread, and SS, who was in your main elim pool, you never had any interest in voting SS. shea was even saying around that time that he felt like his death as inevitable. wouldn't you want to try to prevent that?

It didn’t seem like there was much intent from people to ELIMINATE at that time. And surely you would agree that shea was being melodramatic?

Oh, I remember that I wasn’t particularly interested in voting s_s at the time because he had just replaced in and apart from not-townreading the slot, I didn’t have any good reason to scumread there (see: my reasoning for the not-townread in my reads list)

[DeasVail]

I guess my biggest reason for thinking deas might be scum outside of the obvious not being here or seeming to care very much is like entirely tone. He has this sort of matter of fact I can't believe I have to explain this to you tone that feels not earnest and I associate it with scum quite a bit.

I do kind of take issue with the accusation of “not being here”

Otherwise both of the other things are probably true to some extent

[DeasVail]

I guess my biggest reason for thinking deas might be scum outside of the obvious not being here or seeming to care very much is like entirely tone. He has this sort of matter of fact I can't believe I have to explain this to you tone that feels not earnest and I associate it with scum quite a bit.

+1

I think there's also an absence of anger or indignation I would expect to see in a Townie being wrongfully accused in general.

PEdit:

I played with Dease and read one or two games they were in and I thought they came across as earnest.

I don’t think I could bring myself to feel angry about anything, let alone this game

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Gamma emerald

[DeasVail]

I think the vigs should shoot who they want to shoot

[DeasVail]

you?

I've never been that interested in directing vig shots

[DeasVail]

you?

I've never been that interested in directing vig shots

gib opinion tho

i swear i wont focus on only ur opiniom but i want to know what u think!!

In a general sense my main priorities for death right now are Gamma and Something_Smart, but I'm passionately against vig-leashing or directing vig kills in general so I tend to just resist those sorts of questions on principle (especially from someone who isn't even claiming to be a vig). I could get more into the why etc. of this but that wouldn't really be relevant, and it's the sort of thing I would say as either alignment.

In my experience with Gamma as town, he has (for me personally) felt much easier to work with and follow his reads, but here is similar to scum games I've seen where the takes and reads themselves are stranger and more emotion-fuelled. 3509 comes across as such a tepid reason to townread someone and 4285 is so oddly timed in a way that matches more with rogue-scum than what I expect from Gamma as town. 4318 also rings like trying to sound town with the "call me scum, idc" line.

S_S I was initially scumreading less because there were some early signs of him trying to have influence on the game, but that has since fizzled out into nothing and an apparent contendedness to just let things happen around him. Though it has been a while since his last post, so I'm keen to see where things go from here.

[DeasVail]

To whoever is reading this and considering replacing in, I reckon we can make it fun!

[DeasVail]

fire, what has created a sense of almost-passion regarding me being scum? With me being town (obviously this is not clear to people rn but I'll likely be flipped sometime soon), the progression seems strange in some ways. This might be unfair because I've felt a sense of apathy in regards to the game too, but for someone that has worked well with me before, there seems to be a lack of expression from you as to why I'm different from when you've played with me before.

Also I don't want to eliminate Obscure at this point.

[DeasVail]

Also Obscure I just wanted to say that I'm glad you're here and please don't feel the pressure to be around or post more than you can. as long as you can post within the game rules' activity requirements you're good in my book

[DeasVail]

This game is weird for me in that I have varying strengths of townread, with varying levels of convincing reasoning (in my mind) for people being town. Often in town-games I have had "scumreads" that I feel more passionate about than anything I've felt passionate about here, but in this game I don't have very much more than "uhh I townread these people, and I don't have good reason to think those people are town".

I think the main difference between my play here and me playing as scum is that as scum I don't think I would be comfortable with... not having scumreads. I, and most other people, can manufacture reasoning as scum easily enough. Here I'm just reading posts and I'm trying to make them stand out to me but they're just not.

[DeasVail]

i think we have to kill you rather than risk outing another PR

idk what to do with obscure tbh

might just throw them in the hem pool of 'they won't endgame and can die at some point unless they get confirmed'

i sort of think at this point we should just kill someone who says "feel free to just off me"

I think this is really anti Town reasoning

Ausuka's post in particular seems sensible.

[DeasVail]

fire, what has created a sense of almost-passion regarding me being scum? With me being town (obviously this is not clear to people rn but I'll likely be flipped sometime soon), the progression seems strange in some ways. This might be unfair because I've felt a sense of apathy in regards to the game too, but for someone that has worked well with me before, there seems to be a lack of expression from you as to why I'm different from when you've played with me before.

Also I don't want to eliminate Obscure at this point.

i mean i do think you're very different, but i probably am as well, and I don't think that's something that anyone else is going to care about

i don't feel the same drive to solve things. you seem a little more stiff and inflexible, especially when being questioned, whereas in the previous game it felt like you were easy to talk to and converse with

i felt glimpses of that early on but it's kinda disappeared

idk ive already lost the brief moment of almost-passion that i had, im weak

Fair. I have these moments where I think you could be scum, but at the end of the day I don't think you are.

I probably have displayed more of a "pissed off" vibe here than usual, and I apologise for that.

[DeasVail]

Also S_S interaction with both these wagons gives me the hibbityjibbities.

I agree with this

[DeasVail]

But also I think tweet is probably scum

[DeasVail]

so vote there?

I think I am already

[DeasVail]

@all

FYI one argument in favor of flipping Dease is that I think it will help to sort obscure, since their main play (aside from lurking) has been their scum case of Dease. If Dease flips scum (which I think is pretty likely) then we know to evaluate obscure's progression for bus potential, and if Dease flips Town (which I'm pretty skeptical of) then I think obscure should just get shot because I think they're probably lurk scum who parked a vote on Dease.

I still believe there is likely one or more scum slot somewhere between Dann, S_S and Shea, and I can't tell who it is.

@all tldr;

I think Dease is findable is scum whereas obscure is just suspicious, and there is AI information we can get on obscure by flipping Dease, but not the other way around.

That is a somewhat convincing argument, every player in the game I've read so far is divided on Deas, the game's lulling to standstill it seems like, and obscure isn't something ppl are happy with since they're just baseline suspicious (from what I'm getting at)))

I noticed that Dann mentioned having a pocket tunnel on obscure earlier in the game, but I also saw him saying obscure never really had any meaningful pressure. So I'm wondering what obscure did earlier on, I'm assuming they just had trouble keeping up and lurked but that's not exactly a basis for Dann wanting his tunnel to be correct, so im probably missing something

I don't believe that Tweet actually thinks this is a convincing argument.

[DeasVail]

Hey CSF! Did you find what you were looking for about Dease and obscure?

No not really, I haven't found the part where those wagons began. This game could really use some more VCs. What are your reads on those slots?

I'm kind of reading backwards, and one cursory thought I had was that the reasons listed for scumreading Gamma in 5085 were kind of weak considering he's their top scumread.

Part of it is that what I posted there was more focused on recent Gamma posts moreso than posting earlier, but mostly it's that I haven't had especially strong reasons to scumread anybody this game and Gamma was the closest I got to it.

I’ve decided I don’t think Frogster is especially likely as scum to think that my scumread on him is vindictive.

What made you think this? Did something clear up your confusion in 5042?

Post 5042 was kind of a gut reaction, but after further thought, it seemed more likely that the thought of "DV is only suspecting me because I was scum in his only other game with me" came from Frogster as town.

[DeasVail]

my two main novel thoughts I had rereading obscure:

VOTE: Gamma Emerald this is a scum slot I think

HEMs early stuff I thought town and also VP but a few things struck me as off from both and I would like to look back properly at both.
I don't particularly think FB is town but I can wait for him to kick into gear for now and he's done enough that I am not auto scumreading so I don't want to vote there right now.
I am interested in seeing more of Xof's iso dives to see what kind of content is there
I will look at some stuff in the morning. I'm trying to just chuck down rough notes so I don't have to start fresh so I appreciate this is a bit halfhazard.

I don't like how cagey this feels and I don't like the excuses for:

• *Not expanding on the VP and HEM reads
  *Posting in order to use the thread as a notepad

At this rate I'll say there's probably a scum in Gamma, xo, Conman

to comment on this,

I saw conman was also a substitute. I feel like I'm doing the same thing? i agree that it's actually helpful when you're coming into the game so late because everything is kind of inflated. so i'm a townie and i sympathize with it, at least, not sure how much of an alignment tell.

i considered just keeping notes on a document first, but if something happens and i die, i want to be able to have my thoughts out there, and humanmonkey mentioned on the last page it's better to just spew all my thoughts.

I could see this post as a bit white knighty of Conman and a little LAMIST. namely the logic of "I think he's townie, cause he's doing this thing I'm also doing" I can imagine as insidiously trying to plant the idea that obscure is town.

deasvail

weird post about me (skitter), but i can ignore this since i'm not going to hold onto a first post into the game. hmm, starts by just outing a bunch of townreads, which feel sort of easy as a lot of them are sort of founded around "i agree with X's reads" rather than establishing their own (948, 949, etc)

i don't like 950 that much either because it sort of feels like they've making up a narrative "as scum, i'd expect them to do X" when that's really not like a logical assumption - mafia can act in a lot of different ways.

3242 some of the re-evaluation on the VP flip feels kind of decent.

i'm struggling a little with 3333. i feel like it's not hard for mafia to find suspects, but it may be more challenging for mafia to actually sound convincing/believable when they push on these suspects, and it sort of feels like deas doesn't really have any strong pushes (so basically what people were saying about me, even though i don't think it's contextually true about me), and that they are struggling in this regard.. which, they do acknowledge this, but i don't necessarily see that as a plus point. their read on me feels a bit.. eh, flat/waffly, like they are just sort of shrugging it off as a slightly lesser townread than before due to what people are saying but not putting a ton of thought into it. also i'm willing to look at frog again, but gut says it's not a good place to push based on my feelings yesterday.

all in all, i still think they deas has a good chance to be scum.

so rereading this post, I don't see why obscure actually thinks DV is more likely scum than anyone else. There's an implicit argument that having a lot of townreads is scummy, but it's not presented directly and it doesn't really hold up - lots of players in the game have the "too many townreads" mindset at the moment, why single out DV over all the rest? And further it applies to obscure as well, which he himself acknowledges here, but then obscure throws this out without attempting to explain the difference between DV's play and obscure's own. just an assertion that they are different.

I also specifically don't like the bit on 950 - there's a lack of depth to obscure's treatment of it.

1) just because it's not a "logical assumption", why is it scummy for DV to think fire is more likely to fake paranoia as scum?

2) the point of how "mafia can act in a lot of different ways" is true, but also kinda meaningless? like in my mind you could use that as a general retort to a lot of arguments or reasons why people might scumread somebody. the whole game is trying to make informed guesses around how scum is likely to behave. so the way obscure is just wholesale dismissing DV's read feels really uncharitable - I'd at minimum want to understand whether obscure has any thoughts on if fireisred would be more likely to fake paranoia as scum, to understand if obscure tried to empathize or engage with DV's read at all. But instead we don't see that, we just have obscure calling it a bad read by DV.

I leaned towards the messiness of the read on me more likely coming from town. Obscure seems like a thoughtful player and my inclination was that as scum he would be more careful to avoid the inconsistencies in his suspicion of me.

I don’t consider this to be clearing as such, but it does make me hesitant to scumread obscure.

[DeasVail]

Also gamma is someone who I have thought was scum for a while but had difficulty articulating the read. I think that Tweet’s replace-in is also more typical of scum and I feel good about eliminating there

[DeasVail]

The other thing about Obscure’s scumread of me is that he was the first person to make a serious push on me. As scum when you identify someone to “scumread” who is not widely suspected at the time, I think there is a greater feeling of pressure (particularly for someone newer) to make the read “smooth”, if that makes sense.

[DeasVail]

I remember back in the day when the bar for sufficient activity was to have more posts than the mod.

[DeasVail]

…slows down to less than one page per 24 hours?

[DeasVail]

I’m uh pretty sure tweet is scum and attempts to leave me open as an option seem suspicious

[DeasVail]

Unless people think I’m scum with the gamma slot…

[DeasVail]

Unless people think I’m scum with the gamma slot…

is there an obvious reason im not remembering that would make this so unlikely

idk i feel like ive forgotten most of this game already so probably

idk from an external perspective I’d probably consider it at least possible, but gamma is pretty much the only person I’ve scumread this game with any real reasoning behind it.

It just seems wasteful to consider using an elimination on me instead of almost-certain scum, whose flip could potentially help inform reads on me

[DeasVail]

like, I guess I'm not really thinking deas-gamma but you did push me and GL d1 with reasoning behind it. I dunno, if you had any reason to vote Con or f you were just there but sitting there and saying that you've been pyshing people without reasoning, seems revisionist, no?

Yeah you’re right, sorry. I was not thinking about my early suspicion of you and GL for some reason. Apologies.

[DeasVail]

It just seems wasteful to consider using an elimination on me instead of almost-certain scum, whose flip could potentially help inform reads on me

This is also inconsistent:

@all

FYI one argument in favor of flipping Dease is that I think it will help to sort obscure, since their main play (aside from lurking) has been their scum case of Dease. If Dease flips scum (which I think is pretty likely) then we know to evaluate obscure's progression for bus potential, and if Dease flips Town (which I'm pretty skeptical of) then I think obscure should just get shot because I think they're probably lurk scum who parked a vote on Dease.

I still believe there is likely one or more scum slot somewhere between Dann, S_S and Shea, and I can't tell who it is.

@all tldr;

I think Dease is findable is scum whereas obscure is just suspicious, and there is AI information we can get on obscure by flipping Dease, but not the other way around.

That is a somewhat convincing argument, every player in the game I've read so far is divided on Deas, the game's lulling to standstill it seems like, and obscure isn't something ppl are happy with since they're just baseline suspicious (from what I'm getting at)))

I noticed that Dann mentioned having a pocket tunnel on obscure earlier in the game, but I also saw him saying obscure never really had any meaningful pressure. So I'm wondering what obscure did earlier on, I'm assuming they just had trouble keeping up and lurked but that's not exactly a basis for Dann wanting his tunnel to be correct, so im probably missing something

I don't believe that Tweet actually thinks this is a convincing argument.

I don't really know if being inconsistent is actually AI, I just thought it was worth pointing out.

I’m not sure what the inconsistency is but I could be missing something

[DeasVail]

I’m not sure what the inconsistency is but I could be missing something

5325 implies you don't believe prioritizing flipping scummy slots based on what they reveal about harder-to-read slots is a convincing argument. In the second paragraph of 5500 you make a very similar argument in favor of what you want yourself.

Also, is Town!Dease this apologetic?

Oh, no 5325 is me questioning Tweet’s authenticity. Tweet’s posting did not at all give me the impression that they had actually given much thought to what my alignment meant for obscure’s and vice versa. I mean, I also disagree with the specifics of the argument in that case but that’s not as relevant

As for the apologising, I felt silly for having said something that was clearly wrong.

[DeasVail]

I’m not sure what the inconsistency is but I could be missing something

5325 implies you don't believe prioritizing flipping scummy slots based on what they reveal about harder-to-read slots is a convincing argument. In the second paragraph of 5500 you make a very similar argument in favor of what you want yourself.

Also, is Town!Dease this apologetic?

Oh, no 5325 is me questioning Tweet’s authenticity. Tweet’s posting did not at all give me the impression that they had actually given much thought to what my alignment meant for obscure’s and vice versa. I mean, I also disagree with the specifics of the argument in that case but that’s not as relevant

As for the apologising, I felt silly for having said something that was clearly wrong.

Okay. Is apologizing something you do frequently as Town though? It stood out to me in your scum games I looked at.

I honestly wouldn’t know. I think you mentioned that you’ve looked at town games of mine, so you’d probably be better positioned to answer that question

[DeasVail]

I'm not sure why it's so hard to get this hammered.

I’m with you on this one

[DeasVail]

I actually do not think it's impossible that TSQ reps in and pushes his scum buddy. He gets mad that he wasn't on the scumflip yesterday so he looks better?

thoughts? @ anyone not named Dann

I plan on reevaluating tsq

I also don’t know why enchant was shot over me tbh

[DeasVail]

Looking back over end of day 2, Cat and Frog were the most vocal about exploring options other than tweet. Cat actually voted for me, which I think is much more likely from town because tweet was likely being eliminated at that stage and it’s just not a good look. Frog is reasonably likely to be town too because of the messy way in which (from an external perspective) he was very blatantly trying to make something else happen, but I am less certain on Frog-town than Cat-town because scum-Frog may have felt encouraged by town-Cat pushing for something else to happen.

I think that TSQ’s play end of D2 is scummy in a vacuum, but I’m not sure if it changes my overall read of them.

It’s also worthwhile considering the possibility that this was just a situation with low scum presence. S_S had earlier seemed to be encouraging the idea of a wagon on me without wanting to commit to it himself and while I probably think obscure is less likely scum than S_S, it is definitely possible.

[DeasVail]

Dease, I'm confused why Cat is even being considered in 5732.

I don’t take anything for granted

[DeasVail]

I could consider fireisred as scum. Seems the most likely busser on the gamma/tweet wagon, as they were clearly trying to make a dv wagon happen before that (when there was clear interest from obscure, Marci and frog) and haven’t mentioned me D3.

But mena I would be interested in why you think S_S is town

[DeasVail]

scamper you ready for more votes on mena?

[DeasVail]

I am v confused

tbh me too. I thought it was a gambit, but I guess not!

[DeasVail]

that is a hardclaim, btw

why would you announce you were gunsmith before Mena claimed, giving him the opportunity to fakeclaim a role with a gun?

Obscure had already claimed VT

[DeasVail]

oh okay cool I didn't think it was real

[DeasVail]

but would he?

[DeasVail]

some reaction tests are longer than others

...

is life just one long reaction test?

[DeasVail]

it would be funny if mena were a mafia doctor

[DeasVail]

it's okay I am not suggesting this as a real thing

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

For me the deciding factor is multiple instances where Gamma has posted in such a way that is displaying outrage/disbelief in response to a certain/person event that is actually benign to the point where I struggle to believe that she can feel so passionate about it.

798

2111 through 2114

And more recently the ??? at marci

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ConmanMick

I think CMM is more likely scum than Gamma at this point.

this turns into the vc:

ConManMick (9): Ydrasse, Aristeia, Irrelephant11, Ausuka, Datisi, scamper, Gamma Emerald, humaneatingmonkey, DeasVail
Dannflor (3): GuiltyLion, Frogsterking, fireisredsir
GuiltyLion (3): obscure, Dannflor, VP Baltar
Gamma Emerald (2): marcistar, Nero Cain
obscure (1): Firebringer
Aristeia (1): ConManMick
Not voting (1): xofelf

one interesting? thing i noted is that gamma voted for conman when the choice was between dann/conman. (vpb also voted conman when choosing btwn the two.) now that doesn't HAVE to mean anything but it also Might mean something

deas, do you remember your progression into voting gamma and ultimately deciding to not vote gamma? because the first quoted vote was at the time other people were voting for gamma, so i wanna know what changed your mind here

I don’t remember it too well but I think there was an aspect of not feeling confident enough in my gamma read to push harder at the time. I also felt that conman’s posts in the preceding pages aligned more with scum flailing to try and look town, but obviously I was wrong on that.

[DeasVail]

VOTE: something_smart

[DeasVail]

The stakes do not quite feel high enough, nor is the game whittled down enough for me to go into ultra solvey mode. I really am at the point where I feel like S_S is a good enough elim.

[DeasVail]

Fwiw, I don’t remember the last time I played a scumgame where people actually…. discussed stuff in the scumchat

[DeasVail]

Hmmm, I do remain underwhelmed by Menalque but I don’t really think the slot is scum.

[DeasVail]

T3 made this game as a reaction test

Also we can be friends I guess Mena I feel like your response was probably town

If you betray me I will cry

I would never, I am the towniest lil townboi there is

hence why I'm not yelling at scamper about game throwing

This is a scum response.

hang on, explain this

The questioning of tsq’s post I think was a townie thing to catch onto. Menalque as scum knows that they are scum so wouldn’t think “tsq’s post is concerning!”, but as town it feels like suspicious stoking of the fire. The way that it’s phrased too is assertive, as if catching onto something rather than what I expect from scum trying to look like they’re hunting.

It’s overall a small thing and I guess still possible from scum but it’s not exactly the sort of INTENTIONAL post that I see scum making

[DeasVail]

deas buddy can i get A Readslist(tm) from you

it can be naked that's ok i just wanna see where your head is at

TOWN: Datisi, scamper, cat, Nero
town: Ausuka, Dannflor, fireisred, GuiltyLion, Menalque
Currently considering as possible scum (this is dynamic and changes depending on the mood): Ydrasse, SS, fireisred, TSQ, Frogster

[DeasVail]

Just as an example, 30 minutes ago Menalque would have been in the bottom tier but I thought about it.

[DeasVail]

Where is the mena wagon at now?

[DeasVail]

Where is the mena wagon at now?

It's time for you to hop on the bus

Well I might, but would prefer to know whereabouts on the bus I’d be sitting

[DeasVail]

I’m V/LA for the next 24-48 hours

[DeasVail]

It's scum looking for that long shot chance

How does that make any sense? Why wouldn't I just push for Mena if I wanted someone to die who isn't me?

I feel like Something_Smart as town would actually be more survivalist here? Voting Nero seems to me like an attempt at looking town.

[DeasVail]

I could vote Menalque I guess?

[DeasVail]

I’m feeling antsy in the pantsy!

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Menalque