Mini Normal 2280 | Music Hits of 2015-2019 | GAME OVER

[Porkens]

Hey I haven’t played in a while. Checking in as vanilla town

[Porkens]

I’ll be around now and then

[Porkens]

Good morning

[Porkens]

I used to do gutty townreads and scumreads page 1 and they were almost always wrong

[Porkens]

What do you mean “scan”?

[Porkens]

Still not sure what the word scan means in this context

[Porkens]

Ok thank you

[Porkens]

Sorry my reading comprehension is very poor. I wanted to know what you meant when you said you don’t get scanned in your earlier post.

[Porkens]

What are these townreads worth at this point? How likely are they to change? Why announce them now?

[Porkens]

I don’t know if it’s all that great. What if you are town reading scum, don’t you risk spreading that misconception to others? What if scum uses it as a way to plant town seeds on their members?

[Porkens]

I barely listened to music 2015-2019 so this was the first song I recognized

[Porkens]

Serious question: do you all read and understand everyone else’s posts? Or do you just sort of skim and go with feelings?

[Porkens]

I’m bad at this game.

[Porkens]

I’ve tracked my games very carefully and I am statistically worse than random.

[Porkens]

I don’t really have one. I’m going to try and not get miseliminated. That’s really my only goal. Although I know that can’t win the game by itself, it’s my goal for the first couple days, at which point I hope to have gotten some idea who is scum er not.

[Porkens]

Sometimes I can pick the scum perfectly t the start of the game but then talk myself out of it by the end. Other games I’m dead convinced I know the scum and am just totally wrong sometimes it’s super obvious but I still can’t see it. The worst is when unfortunately I last until end game and hammer wrong. I’m a chronic hammerer but I’m trying to be better. And when I’m scum I almost always get caught.

[Porkens]

So I’ve tried different approaches but yeah haven’t found one that wins games

[Porkens]

I mean I’ve thrown away some legendary wins. That’s what cuts the deepest.

[Porkens]

I don’t know if it’s all that great. What if you are town reading scum, don’t you risk spreading that misconception to others? What if scum uses it as a way to plant town seeds on their members?

Would it not, in fact, be more protown to

scumhunt

?

[Porkens]

Sometimes I can pick the scum perfectly t the start of the game but then talk myself out of it by the end. Other games I’m dead convinced I know the scum and am just totally wrong sometimes it’s super obvious but I still can’t see it. The worst is when unfortunately I last until end game and hammer wrong. I’m a chronic hammerer but I’m trying to be better. And when I’m scum I almost always get caught.

Can you explain this a little better? Are you saying that you're almost always the hammer?? Thoughts of N_M floating in my mind.

In the past, I have had a tendency to hammer when presented the opportunity. Frequently. I'm trying to do better.

Sometimes I can pick the scum perfectly t the start of the game but then talk myself out of it by the end. Other games I’m dead convinced I know the scum and am just totally wrong sometimes it’s super obvious but I still can’t see it. The worst is when unfortunately I last until end game and hammer wrong. I’m a chronic hammerer but I’m trying to be better. And when I’m scum I almost always get caught.

Can you explain this a little better? Are you saying that you're almost always the hammer?? Thoughts of N_M floating in my mind.

Porkens do you have scum games that you've won that you can link to?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83299&start=325

---

Time to eat dinner. I'll post more later hopefully.

[Porkens]

VOTE: wayward son

Gut

[Porkens]

Question to everyone, I see Porkens talking about how bad he is and throwing shade at the idea of Town blocs. His only game relevant post is his "gut" vote. Is it only Professor's defense of him that makes him Town?

“HAY EVERYONE LOOK AT THIS OTHER PERSON PLEASE”

[Porkens]

I didn’t say he was town.

[Porkens]

Question to everyone, I see Porkens talking about how bad he is and throwing shade at the idea of Town blocs. His only game relevant post is his "gut" vote. Is it only Professor's defense of him that makes him Town?

“HAY EVERYONE LOOK AT THIS OTHER PERSON PLEASE”

QFT

Nice, I like you.

[Porkens]

I didn’t say he was town.

They

[Porkens]

I really think wayward is scum. Plz ISO and confirm.

[Porkens]

I really think wayward is scum. Plz ISO and confirm.

Shouldn’t

you

do that? It's your read on them after-all.

Their ISO is my case. Don’t be lazy.

I have another scumread I’ll keep in my pocket for now.

[Porkens]

It was their posts in that span that clinched the read.

[Porkens]

Question to everyone, I see Porkens talking about how bad he is and throwing shade at the idea of Town blocs. His only game relevant post is his "gut" vote. Is it only Professor's defense of him that makes him Town?

“HAY EVERYONE LOOK AT THIS OTHER PERSON PLEASE”

QFT

I'm not so hot on my "tinfoil theory" anymore. I never mentioned Professor's claim to see if he would push it as an excuse to not vote him. It'd probably be late game before he could prove it.

When I get back on later tonight, I'll revise my vote. I think Shiidaji is Town.

Professor, Porkens. OMGUS I guess.

Galron, and maybe Malcolm.

These are my best guesses.

NJAC and Wayward.

Without quotes, can you summarize your scum read on NJAC? Something quick?

After Galron's ISO. I just don't know what to say or ask.

@ Galron What do you think?

[Porkens]

That would be the real nightmare scenario.

[Porkens]

I want PD town. I wish it.

[Porkens]

I think Galron's wagon is all Town.

Mine, ehh.

Malcolm's vote maybe scum.

What do you think of 489?

[Porkens]

I strongly believe ger is town.

[Porkens]

I strongly believe ger is town.

And I strongly believe the opposite.

If you think he's town, make an actual counterargument.

This is quickly reminding me of 2273 where I am one of the only people actually making an argument.

Read ger’s first post.

[Porkens]

I think Crescent's case on Gera is solid. Their contradictions here do not make sense as town. Moving my vote before going to sleep.

VOTE: Geraintm

That’s a scummy fucking vote.

[Porkens]

What a weird wagon to go the distance.

[Porkens]

Okay. Professor, what was your claim yesterday? I can’t find it.

[Porkens]

Reasonable questions, I’ll try to answer after work.

[Porkens]

Not able to post yet but brief skim and Malcom looks pretty scum. Beating a dead horse in grandiose fashion.

[Porkens]

I strongly believe ger is town.

I think Crescent's case on Gera is solid. Their contradictions here do not make sense as town. Moving my vote before going to sleep.

VOTE: Geraintm

That’s a scummy fucking vote.

What do people think of these posts? On the one hand they feel a bit too obvious for Porkens and Gera to be teammates. Scum would typically be more subtle. But from Porkens' game so far I'm not exactly sure subtlety is something they really do. The second post here feels like an overreaction; why does Porkens, as someone who admitted themselves struggled with reads, have such a strong townread and visceral reaction to a vote on a player who is notoriously difficult to read confidently in D1?

First of all, “what do people think of these votes” is a sus way of bringing something up. But as for why that vote was scummy it was because it was just pure sheeping without admitting it.

[Porkens]

Okay. Professor, what was your claim yesterday? I can’t find it.

Any thoughts this turn? What do you make of my Ger/Kitty read? How does Wayward turning out to be town affect your read on the game?

I think ger is town based on his soft claim. Kitty I’m unsure on.

[Porkens]

Rereading with no scum flips always felt more like homework than fun detective work Had a moment of weakness where I started suspecting Malcolm pretty hard due to his shift in read on Ger and the votepost on Ger where he agrees with Cres's case. But I see where his changed early read on ger happened.

This is more words than how I said it but no one blinks that it’s the same.

[Porkens]

@malcolm.

i dont want day 1 eliminations. i believe town is best served not killing anyone and starting the game only 1 player down and with whatever night info they have, rather than 2 down.
i think everyone's thoughts on day 1 are pointless.
but you can use the info gained from actual actions - votes - on day 1 during day 2.
i think during day 1 all but the few scum (and in there are townies with extra info) are just waffling out of their arses everytime they say someone is scummy (and yes, i include myself in that). during day 1 you can't do anything with what anyone says, it is just pointless. i sit there and give out naughty points as place holders for when i think someone has done something i dont like and want to make a note that later on they can be used as something to return to - (which is what i should have done with you instead of voting).

but once we have a flip then we can start to piece the game together.
and that is what i am trying to do.

you cannot use the defence of "i didnt really want to eliminate wayward, look i said it!" whilst then actually voting for them.

that is an action and i can make reads based off your actions.
you cannot say that you only voted them off because it provides more information, and then vote for me for using the very information you have provided for my reads!

Sorry but you continually ignore what the vast, vast majority of players who play mafia say on this one - D1 eliminations have value because they give us info. Without info we are shooting into the dark D2. With no elimination we'd have nothing because Crescent is a strong player and would have been an unsurprising night-kill no matter what.

Now we know Porkens consistently pushed town from the start. Now we know who voted out a townie - reasonably or otherwise - going forward. We know who actively avoided the wagon, perhaps for their own self-gain.

The majority of mafia for uninformed town involves shooting into the dark. Even now, on D2, our info remains somewhat limited, because if you are town you do not know who is scum, the literal point is to solve, whether it be based on intuition, votes, gut or links between players. Without eliminations and votes it is impossible to do that. Refusing to compromise on wagons or eliminate players is fundamentally anti-town. You have been told this over and over again, by players who are experienced and good at mafia, and you simply refuse to take this info on-board.

If you are town your suspicion of me for the hammer is just fundamentally a complete misreading of the game. I have said, multiple times now, we needed someone to be voted out D1 and nobody has hammered. My concern when going to bed was nobody would be around to do so and we would head into D2 without an elimination. What if Wayward had actually been scum? It would've been a wasted turn. I don't think you are town but if you are - without meaning to sound like a dick here, please engage with the actual realities of the game and how everyone else plays mafia instead of holding theories and reads based on your own obscure approach to the game nobody else actually agrees with or follows.

It is simply impossible to work alongside a townie who refuses to compromise on a wagon because they think they know better, then blames another player for hammering because too many players in the game are just outright refusing to compromise or consider an alternative elimination to whoever they want out.

And again - this is part of my issue with your approach here. You say D1 is useless but pushed me. When it suits you, you are evidently happy to eliminate, but then won't compromise on anyone else. That is just fundamentally anti-town, mafia involves compromise.

This is what i was talking about dead horses. There is just no reason to go one so verbosely about this issue. It clutters thread and is anti town

[Porkens]

I think whoever steered the wagon away from Galron is scum with Galron.
VOTE: Galron

Can you please summarize your case on Galron?

I'm sheeping Malcolm who sheeped Crescent.

The previous post sums up exactly why I'm not against voting Porkens. Barring a full-on town confirmation. players like him almost always get voted off eventually. It's a matter of when, not if.

But here's a fun fact: Galron really has arguably done even

less

than Porkens has, he just hasn't been as obvious about it. He has given exactly one reason to suspect Drapion (#179), said he's voting him or Malcolm is #384, and given exactly one reason to suspect Malcolm (#472). That's... Really it.

Porkers may be doing next to nothing, but his approach to Wayward, as much as I had to pull teeth to get him to actually elaborate on anything, is more than we've gotten out of Galron. Porkens is failing, but Galron feels like he's totally lurking from commitment.

I feel like we have circled around this train while discussing trains to oppose it, while most people seem to agree everyone voting him is town, while the player the train is on hasn't given us any reason to look away him. I have yet to see anything that resembles true, game-solving thought process, and he's the lowest poster in the entire game, who has done effectively nothing since September 13th.

IMO this makes sense, I played with town Galron and he's not this much of a contentless lurker.

I think Professor is town too, Galron just hid in the shadows while two townies were being run up.

BTW

@Mod the thread icon is still a moon and not a sun.

Whoooooowow this is a scummy post. What does it do? What

[Porkens]

Okay. Professor, what was your claim yesterday? I can’t find it.

Any thoughts this turn? What do you make of my Ger/Kitty read? How does Wayward turning out to be town affect your read on the game?

It really doesn’t do much, I’m bad at wagon analysis. I think kitty is more likely scum than ger given the soft. Galton I could see scum too.

[Porkens]

How is that scummy?

Because it’s exactly the kind of post scum makes when they want to appear active but don’t want to dó anything

[Porkens]

I’m not going to make a town analysis of myself, no.
You get my reads, analyze how you want.

[Porkens]

There is no analysis there. “I’m sheeping” “that makes sense here I’ll paraphrase it” “here’s a random statement based on nothing” “oh kid look”

[Porkens]

No order within groups:

Ger
Salsa
Professor

Njak
Malcomb

Gal
Kitty
Birdy

Ish

[Porkens]

town

Null

Scummy

[Porkens]

Wayward was a pure gut read for me, his reaction didn’t change that, but I didn’t make any kind of case whatsoever or try to persuade anyone and yet it happened

[Porkens]

Btw,

@Porkens

, in which post

geraintm

soft claimed?

His first post

[Porkens]

Btw,

@Porkens

, in which post

geraintm

soft claimed?

No order within groups:

Ger
Salsa
Professor

Njak
Malcomb

Gal
Kitty
Birdy

Ish

Who is Birdy and why do you scum read them?

The person with the bird avatar. Gut read

[Porkens]

There is no analysis there. “I’m sheeping” “that makes sense here I’ll paraphrase it” “here’s a random statement based on nothing” “oh kid look”

On what planet is sheeping scummy. I didn't have much to add. Indeed there's no analysis because I agreed with someone else's analysis.

It’s not the sheeping that’s scummy, it’s the act of posting literally nothing that will jostle the game state. Trying not to make waves.

[Porkens]

There is no analysis there. “I’m sheeping” “that makes sense here I’ll paraphrase it” “here’s a random statement based on nothing” “oh kid look”

On what planet is sheeping scummy. I didn't have much to add. Indeed there's no analysis because I agreed with someone else's analysis.

Vote: Porkens

what's your gameplan for today?

Gut it out, keep poking the hornets nest, see what flies out

[Porkens]

Btw,

@Porkens

, in which post

geraintm

soft claimed?

im curious about this too. what tells do i have.

yesterday's posts about me feel very different, mainly because the people writing them havent done it from the point of view that i am scum. you get very different answers if you come at me from a different point of view.

i have this fear that this might be now setting me up to live because they think i might want to go after malcolm. i was first set up via crescent, and now other things? i dunno, maybe, getting paranoid now

You deny you soft claimed in Your first post?

[Porkens]

Alright then if you deny it then I’m going to have to rethink your town equity. Demoted to null for now.

[Porkens]

I’m from the US

[Porkens]

Yeah I’d vote kitty. Drapion is being silly now.

[Porkens]

Malcom has a definite manipulative scum vibe though.

[Porkens]

Wait like you are fine with me being eimiatez?

[Porkens]

Hmm that’s a good question. I guess I just don’t feel like voting yet.

[Porkens]

Also, no

[Porkens]

On Galron, I dunno, I'm split. There's not too much effort from the slot just now and I can see the idea they're just lurking around and not doing much in the hope they'll avoid attention. But I've not found their actions during the game particularly scummy.

Kitty points out Galron isn't usually this low effort as town but I feel like I definitely have seen them coast a bit as town before.

And it concerns me that Kitty reads - beyond being sheeped - feel like they are all just primarily depending on meta. Galron is scum because they're posting too little; Ger is town because they always play this way. It's a useful way for scum to seem like they have opinions without having an actual view or opinion on the gamestate as it is. My stance on meta is it's useful but has limitations and I think it can look scummy when players use meta to hide behind a read.

It feels like you are tactically fence sitting and bidding your time.

[Porkens]

Planting seeds and casting sideways shade

[Porkens]

Gathering intel to further your agenda

[Porkens]

What’s your case on Galron?

[Porkens]

So are we just going to fool around until deadline again and go with the least effort wagon happen again?

[Porkens]

Porkens' attack on me really smells of scum opportunism under a semi-plausible cover of "Kitty's reasoning is lazy".

Mmm let’s do this, I don’t like the way you smell either.

[Porkens]

Yeah actually no I don’t think you are scum.

HEY WHOS WILLING TO SHOOT THE MOON WITH ME?

VOTE: malcom e-3

[Porkens]

Ok let’s talk NJAC

[Porkens]

NJACs ISO is basically 3 things:

1. Do you think XYZ is town? Why?
2. What is your case on XYZ?
3. You didn’t respond to 123, please go back and respond.

This is quintessential scum fluffing. It looks like activity, but it’s not. It looks like it contributes, but it doesn’t. It’s scum playing facilitator.

VOTE: NJAC

[Porkens]

I decided their effort is genuine.

[Porkens]

It was a meme

[Porkens]

Pretty sure it’s NJAC/Suji or whatever their name is

Why do you think “suji” and NJAC are partners?

[Porkens]

I think they are a difference check but not sure whom their partner is.


Pretty confident Porkens and Malcolm are town.

Wait, what are you saying?

[Porkens]

Vote NJAC

[Porkens]

Hahah, see? Town.

[Porkens]

Salsa, my read on kitty changed based on their reactions in the last couple pages. They read town to me. I see them in a town light now.

Strongly prefer NJAC. Ger why are you not on NJAC?

[Porkens]

Well take a look there are 10 hours left and your wagons are tied at L-2

[Porkens]

Point to 3 posts that aren’t one of the above.

[Porkens]

@njac

[Porkens]

Where do you think you e advanced the game?

[Porkens]

No I mean show me where you have advanced the game state; an example.

[Porkens]

NJAC are you going to stay parked on Kitty? What is your reason for scumreading kitty?

[Porkens]

For 1) can you show a post and explain in some way?
3) can you show the post?

[Porkens]

Yes, Shidaji could be scum here.

Keep this in mind if I die tonight.

Also don't forget my case on Kitty.

Honestly two laughable concepts here: one is the idea that mafia would shoot NJAC. Why would they do that, exactly?

Two: the word “case” used quite loosely.

I’ll hammer before I go to bed in 3 hours but I STRONGLY SUGGEST anyone who reads this and isn’t doing so already VOTE NJAC.

[Porkens]

Ugh, actually scratch that. I’m not hammering ger.

[Porkens]

You just hammered. Are you going to pretend you didn’t know?

[Porkens]

Oh nvm.

The claim…ehhhhhhh I’m not especially feeling it.

[Porkens]

I go sleep good luck game.

[Porkens]

Really I thought Malcom’s reaction was hilariously over the top exagerated

[Porkens]

Someone should do one of those color coded vote analysis thingys.

[Porkens]

Sorry it’s been a while, Malcolm, can you articulate your townread on Ger?

[Porkens]

I’m fine with galron today but I want to look at a couple things before we end the day

[Porkens]

Ok ok cool VOTE: salsa

[Porkens]

If you are really at e-1 you should claim I think.

[Porkens]

I think this is rushing it.

[Porkens]

In elo: {Scum,

Professor

,

Salsabil

}

2 scenarios:

1.

Professor

votes me, I vote scum & scum votes me.

Result

:

Scum win

2.

Scum votes me, I vote scum &

Professor

votes me.

Result

:

Scum win

There's a whole world of other scenarios. PR Drapion might get shot by F3 if it ever gets to that point. We have potential PR actions left to work with before then, plus prof can still technically be scum alol

Basically from a town perspective you shouldn't ever do this. I was thinking you were reaction baiting earlier, but if you're honestly town burying your head asking your TRs to vote you, you gotta fortify mental!!! I was expecting more kickback to Drapion casing you than this.

If it wasn’t because of me pushing Shii to vote NJAC, scum would be alive to day and be in allot better of position.
So get outta here Salsa with you calling me “useless” lmao.

I agree with this Everyone has a different style.

This post is NJAK level scummyz

[Porkens]

You are talking about galron?

[Porkens]

You really see nothing townie from salsa?

[Porkens]

Is that a hammer? Just to make sure VOTE: galron

My townread of prof is slipping. Also can see salsa scum.

[Porkens]

Nice nice I am glad I was right about salsa and dp.

[Porkens]

Pd

[Porkens]

Wait galron roleblocked me N2?

[Porkens]

Props to ger for the soft claim conversation, very town tell very good

[Porkens]

Appreciated all the effort from salsa and prof and Malcom you sweaty tryhards

[Porkens]

I picked you for doc because of that kinda fixed you both as town to me

[Porkens]

'Ello 'ello 'ello.....

God this game took ages to start, i was observing the Queue for ages waiting.

i think i recognise most of the people's names. i would suggest (from past experience) that if there is a cop type role in the game that Crescent gets checked night 1, they cannot be allowed as scum to get too far into the game.

I'll check in during the day, as I can. Just expect more from me at night!

Vampire confirmed, gotcha

Anyways, here we have gone from the 2nd to a 3rd

I thought you were softing watcher