Datisi's Café [game over!]

[Vivax]

I believe there‘s decent reasons to listen to both camps here.
You having RCE in the PoE while a wagon is available and simply refusing to vote anyone but Roden is just weird to me.
Both players you should be able to read just as fine, or no? Why this supertunnel then. Reads like lack of flexibility a town should have. You don‘t really re-evaluate no matter what he says

[Vivax]

I'm not submitting a gamesolve here, I'm trying to flag up scummy players that are being ignored.

yeah but that just seems like town signalling (idk if that's the right phrase for it) instead of just, pushing the slots?

Yeah I feel a bit powerless about today's vote.

VOTE: Malakittens

VOTE: Malakittens

Why these votes and what's with the Yd-FG interactions?
They're like...Deliberately ineffective considering the best shot at getting any meaningful counterweight to the Roden wagon that forces scum to act (if Roden is town) is following Luke and Roden to the Titus wagon.

No claims on universal truth, but this shuffling won't force an active gamestate from players who avoid posting imo.

[Vivax]

these reads feel kinda convenient

do you have any actual thoughts on: roden, mastina, titus, luke

it can wait till later if you don't wanna post big but yeah, like i said, those names you've all listed feel v convenient and i highly doubt we have all scum in the less active half of the game

1428 still fairly accurate but Roden down a bit, I don't get the 0% thing.

As for 'convenient' reads, I didn't check my reads against the activity overview. You're right, I should have seen that my scumreads were less active which gives them a townpass, because we all know that scummy lurkers are always town in disguise. Just disregard everything then, I'll re-evaluate knowing that at least 2 mafia are within the top 5 posters.

On a serious note, yeah I don't think Ausuka/Malakittens/RC IS the scumteam, but they are all possible scum individually.

I'm ok with the idea that I might be townreading/townleaning a mafia, that's pretty much always the case. I'm not submitting a gamesolve here, I'm trying to flag up scummy players that are being ignored. And there's a big difference between 'the scumteam is not entirely lurkers' and 'Luke/Mastina/Roden/Titus' HAS TO have mafia in.

This sentence really rubs me the wrong way. Do you mean to say you weren't posting on a serious note before?
The entire post rubs me the wrong way

[Vivax]

Why shouldn‘t they be scum together? Reads like you‘re afraid of suggesting that

Luke, mastina, Roden, Titus relevant to you how? Reads like some antispew list with a mafia or two mixed in that you were forced to mention.

[Vivax]

Is anyone forcing you to have these reads, FG? Does the Fargo prp suggest that Uncrowned is manipulating your reads? Do you need assistance?

[Vivax]

I‘m the least scary person I know, personally. The scary type likes me tho, like the Fargo dude.
I somehow like dealing with those. Might go into the field at some point since I‘d probably not give a damn about having to deal with crazies, they‘re entertaining when they don‘t sensory overload you.

[Vivax]

Ausuka is so tilted atm.

Idk why this is so funny, maybe cause these are the first posts from her that look invested and you think that means tilting

[Vivax]

because she decided at the start of the game that she was going to scumread Ircher?

Ausuka you're lucky that the me(facet) who is fronting right now is not

actually

mastina(the facet) because she is furious and wants to scream at you for this.

I'll keep it fairly polite and say:

DON'T

make this accusation.

I never decide reads in advance. (I need to hit submit on this post before mastina actually does start fronting because she has a lot to say about that shit.)

The mighty facet is here fronting?
Ok I think Titus goes to town with that implied Ausuka SR.

How tf do you get hammered so quickly?

[Vivax]

firing

Roden [5]:

mastina, Andresvmb

,

Klick

, Malakittens,

Ydrasse

Titus [4]:

Roden, Lukewarm

,

Vivax

,

Ausuka

Hmm I wonder which of these wagons is scumdriven?

Just a thought.

UNVOTE:

Mission accomplished then?

[Vivax]

I think those colors are accurate, mastina.
Don‘t have the sass to shoot into luke or ydrasse though

[Vivax]

firing

Roden [5]:

mastina, Andresvmb

,

Klick

, Malakittens,

Ydrasse

Titus [4]:

Roden, Lukewarm

,

Vivax

,

Ausuka

Hmm I wonder which of these wagons is scumdriven?

Just a thought.

OOPS WRONG YDRASSE COLOR, fix'd.

Can we at least pretend to SR her

[Vivax]

I think mastina has been very vocal about summing up her reasons to SR Luke, or agreeing with my former ones

[Vivax]

Honestly it‘s in the ISO.
Both hers and mine. Ya tryna take Ydrasse‘s fake-scumread spot?

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

but what about that do you think is specific to luke being scum?

Because Luke is thorough and meticulous as town and absolutely methodical. His towngame is well-thought-out and doesn't make the ""mistakes"" in narrative he has made this game.

I hope I get town points for this.

As a matter of fact: yes, you do!

I feel like this meta has been brought up in the thread, so I'm surprised you find it scummy?

It's almost like Lukewarm made up a read, that he knew would make sense in a vacuum, so he started with the premise of me being scum and then made up the reasoning to reach that viewpoint.

I still think Roden not really talking about the Ircher wagon at all when it was (imo) the primary discussion point is strongly scummy.

So do I, especially given their role similarity.

It really feels like you're making this up. I understand why someone would be suspicious of me in a vacuum but this argument feels like you started at the premise "ausuka is scum" and then made up reasoning to reach that viewpoint.

You are correct; fire did this for you.
You know who else has done that?

Lukewarm with his Titus/mastina cases.
Both are scum!

I mean, I *agree* with the Lukewarm case. You can look back and see me saying the same things, I'm pretty sure - and peta also thought this! I don't think this really applies to luke here.

It applies.
I understand why someone would be suspicious of Titus in a vacuum. Or heck, even suspicious of me in a vacuum.
Those reads are not in of themselves bad.
But Lukewarm is explicitly making them up. He started with the premise of scum, then made up reasoning to reach that viewpoint. Reasoning which from an outside perspective looks like "oh this seems plausible enough" both as a narrative on the individual and as from coming from a viewpoint from town.

But the issue arises in that Lukewarm's narrative is only consistent from an outside viewpoint casually glancing in--it's not something internally consistent. Lukewarm's cases don't come from the perspective of trying to figure out the alignment of the player in question and demonstrating the conclusion he thinks they are scum. Lukewarm's cases demonstrate he thinks they are scum and then demonstrate the narrative used to justify this viewpoint.

The cases make efforts to ignore inconveniences that get in the way of the point being right. They manipulate things in a disingenuous way lacking honesty, by exaggerating points in favor of the viewpoint and downplaying the points in opposition to the viewpoint.

Like...You consider a lot of things at once in parallel, but don‘t really point and shoot. I hope this doesn‘t come across as mischaracterizing, but it‘s what keeps me sus on you.

This is accurate; Lukewarm is missing the "A-HA!!!" factor.

Making the cases he has is not an a-ha! factor; making the cases he has is having predetermined the outcome and writing the evidence to fit that narrative.

I was fully prepared to defend Roden from being the days elimination before he decided to throw a temper tantrum. I don't think that I will be doing that any more tbh.

(Like, compare this sort of interaction with Roden to those of Klick/furtive/jjh/etc. Lukewarm knows Roden's alignment. Others do not.)

These are just the bottom collection.
I'd say the lack of aha-factor is what described it best for me and was more akin to my thoughts. Synthesizing into a simpler argument is what I prefer doing, personally. Except on D1, then I'm just a loose cannon.
Kinda not in the mood to open that Pandora's box again like the slapping fiesta I had with luke at day start.

[Vivax]

Turns out when I came home yesterday and wanted to drink a bit I grabbed some homemade elder syrup and chugged it down thinking it was Rosè, but I only just realized it
I should donate a lobe of my liver or something, since to me alcohol is some sort of performance enhancer but I need a ton to get properly drunk despite not being burly

the a-ha factor point is reasonable ig, i wanted to know what specific mistakes in narratives he had tho

For me the most blatant one remains the fact Luke pointed out Ircher's mistake first iirc, but only joined the wagon after Peta voted with a do-do-do, they went extinct for a reason.
These are a recollection of various things that stuck out to me while questioning. And the feeling panic thing is something you can take for granted, or not. Pretty sure I didn't have a reason to.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I have not been having a lot of fun with Day 1 of large games. So I might try to coast this one out.

But I also might be bad at sticking to that lol.

But for now, and until I inevitably fail at holding back, Peta I declare you a double voter

VOTE: Klick

I have not been having a lot of fun with Day 1 of large games. So I might try to coast this one out.

But I also might be bad at sticking to that lol.

But for now, and until I inevitably fail at holding back, Peta I declare you a double voter

VOTE: Klick

Oh is this the mythical Lukewarm scumgame?

...'Cause it looks like a mythical Lukewarm scumgame.

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

Hi y'all, I'm gonna be fully transparent with this:

I am setting my productivity to 0% today.

You may call that anti-town as much as you want; you can consider it suspicious as much as you want. Which is fair. The scum extra kill mechanism is ludicrously strong and I am fully aware of the risks.

But I have very strong reasons for doing so. I promise that by D4, you'll know why.
I won't go 0% more than once.

But for ~reasons~ I need to go 0% today. Let's just say I'll become a scumhunting GOD.

I kinda feel like you should have just done this, and not declared it tbh.

Are you basically claiming that you have a power worth the over all productivity taking a hit?

Conversely, people probably should not declare intent to go to 100% productivity, because that is paramount to claiming either a VT or a PR with a bad ability.

damn mega townie analysis from you on something that's already been done congrats you're at the top of my TRs

This feels like a horrible reason to town read me tbh.

Thanks. I hate it.

Ah. my bad lol

Probably just because I do see people town read people for dumb things like that on the regular.

35 - reads like pocketing attempt for a susceptible player

38 - Kinda agreed with it at the time for the whole self-consciousness in post

39 - Very fast ping on Ircher, no adaptation through vote

82 - Reminds me of myself in terminator when a townie wrongly concluded I was town. I snarled at em, more or less (it was Gamma)

85 - extension

Pinging Ircher that early could be read as hedging considering the slot seems to act in a rather headstrong way about the reason he's being wagoned so quickly

Oh look, I am being talked about

Spoiler:

I have not been having a lot of fun with Day 1 of large games. So I might try to coast this one out.

But I also might be bad at sticking to that lol.

But for now, and until I inevitably fail at holding back, Peta I declare you a double voter

VOTE: Klick

I have not been having a lot of fun with Day 1 of large games. So I might try to coast this one out.

But I also might be bad at sticking to that lol.

But for now, and until I inevitably fail at holding back, Peta I declare you a double voter

VOTE: Klick

Oh is this the mythical Lukewarm scumgame?

...'Cause it looks like a mythical Lukewarm scumgame.

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

Hi y'all, I'm gonna be fully transparent with this:

I am setting my productivity to 0% today.

You may call that anti-town as much as you want; you can consider it suspicious as much as you want. Which is fair. The scum extra kill mechanism is ludicrously strong and I am fully aware of the risks.

But I have very strong reasons for doing so. I promise that by D4, you'll know why.
I won't go 0% more than once.

But for ~reasons~ I need to go 0% today. Let's just say I'll become a scumhunting GOD.

I kinda feel like you should have just done this, and not declared it tbh.

Are you basically claiming that you have a power worth the over all productivity taking a hit?

Conversely, people probably should not declare intent to go to 100% productivity, because that is paramount to claiming either a VT or a PR with a bad ability.

damn mega townie analysis from you on something that's already been done congrats you're at the top of my TRs

This feels like a horrible reason to town read me tbh.

Thanks. I hate it.

Ah. my bad lol

Probably just because I do see people town read people for dumb things like that on the regular.

35 - reads like pocketing attempt for a susceptible player

For point of reference, Peta is the only person on this player list that I talk to outside of mafia games.. I also expected him to understand why I would consider coasting in his shadow day 1, since the last completed Large game that I was in was so unbearable Day 1 that both Peta and myself repped out before Day 1 ended (and then proceeded to talk to one another about how terrible the game was, and how all large games should have a day 1 post cap). It also helps that he is someone who I would actually trust his reads.

o be fair, those are all reasons why he would be the person I talked to out the gate as either alignment.

38 - Kinda agreed with it at the time for the whole self-consciousness in post

39 - Very fast ping on Ircher, no adaptation through vote

I did not vote Ircher there for two reasons.

Firstly, I had just said that I was giving my vote to Peta lol

Secondly, I wanted to see if he would talk about his thoughts there before I revealed that I was thinking it was TMI, and I held to that until the moment that Furtive quoted me, explained why I was asking, and voted him for it. Imo, talking to get more information from someone is better then just voting them and putting them on the defensive. (see 357)

That is also why, when Peta voted Ircher, and I followed him in 81, I tried hard to play off my Ircher vote as a joke vote.

82 - Reminds me of myself in terminator when a townie wrongly concluded I was town. I snarled at em, more or less (it was Gamma)

85 - extension

Pinging Ircher that early could be read as hedging considering

the slot

Luke seems to act in a rather headstrong way about the reason (mech TMI)

he's

Ircher being wagoned so quickly

I am not really sure what you mean by that last sentence tbh.

What do you mean by "act in a rather headstrong way"?

1) Okay? Guess I'll take it

2) What makes you think Peta wasn't following you?

3) Felt like you and fire in unison did the whole mechanics mumbojumbo on Ircher which I pointed out seemed a bit...Expansive on the productivity bit.

Secondly, I wanted to see if he would talk about his thoughts there before I revealed that I was thinking it was TMI, and I held to that until the moment that Furtive quoted me, explained why I was asking, and voted him for it. Imo, talking to get more information from someone is better then just voting them and putting them on the defensive. (see 357)

That is also why, when Peta voted Ircher, and I followed him in 81,

I tried hard to play off my Ircher vote as a joke vote.

:fry:

So I did not have any reason to think that he was being more serious there. And I also did not want to ask, given my hanging question for Ircher.

So you pointed out Ircher's mistake first? I think. But you only voted when Peta had to make you vote. Then it was a joke vote, but...

But you're still voting Ircher are you not? Occasionally popping in to question people who townread you.

Town:
Lukewarm
Klick

Is this sorted?

If yes, why am I at the top?

Alas, these posts are kinda draining

I'd say Luke displays some characteristics you'd associate with a martyr mindset, but according to some, feeling of guilt being scum-indicative is somewhat of an unbased rumour

P-edit: Always try to follow the guide of some fella called ace when vig. Kill coinflips early. Less wiggle room to push a mislim, and disencourage that type of play.

I think you don't understand how D1 went down.

How many larges how have you played?

Enough
But let's consider this: The ones who called it weird either don't reply (FG) or believe it (Fire)
While Luke goes on attack mode after not commenting, supposedly having no info whatsoever of how many extra kills scum had. At the very least, you'd have reason to assume Luke has an agenda or ulterior motive here.

Lukewarm is an absurdly bad slot to flip here, to be honest. Like I don’t believe you genuinely think that slot is decently likely to be Scum. Maybe I’m being very basic, but how is 588 + the early questioning not just disqualifying as a place to look today? I don’t get it.

A very detailed case on Ircher when he had 9 votes on him? After pinging him on Page 2 but not voting him right away? Seems repetitive, or performative.
And also, I can feel the panic

P-edit: Always try to follow the guide of some fella called ace when vig. Kill coinflips early. Less wiggle room to push a mislim, and disencourage that type of play.

I think you don't understand how D1 went down.

How many larges how have you played?

Enough
But let's consider this: The ones who called it weird either don't reply (FG) or believe it (Fire)
While Luke goes on attack mode after not commenting, supposedly having no info whatsoever of how many extra kills scum had. At the very least, you'd have reason to assume Luke has an agenda or ulterior motive here.

My vote on you came before you posted this day phase, so acting like I am pushing you in response to your comments this day phase is pretty silly.

I started typing my case out on you immediately after reading 1072, it just took me me a bit to pull together the relevant quotes.

(Which is why 1082 has no comment on your vig claim, because it was written before I read the posts you pedit'ed me with)

That would mean you don't find the BBT kill weird enough to believe he was vigged. But then, why don't you agree with suspecting those who did if you are town?

P-edit: Always try to follow the guide of some fella called ace when vig. Kill coinflips early. Less wiggle room to push a mislim, and disencourage that type of play.

I think you don't understand how D1 went down.

How many larges how have you played?

Enough
But let's consider this: The ones who called it weird either don't reply (FG) or believe it (Fire)
While Luke goes on attack mode after not commenting, supposedly having no info whatsoever of how many extra kills scum had. At the very least, you'd have reason to assume Luke has an agenda or ulterior motive here.

My vote on you came before you posted this day phase, so acting like I am pushing you in response to your comments this day phase is pretty silly.

I started typing my case out on you immediately after reading 1072, it just took me me a bit to pull together the relevant quotes.

(Which is why 1082 has no comment on your vig claim, because it was written before I read the posts you pedit'ed me with)

That would mean you don't find the BBT kill weird enough to believe he was vigged. But then, why don't you agree with suspecting those who did if you are town?

I never said that it was unbelievable for a vig to have targeted BBT.

I don't think that it was even that weird of a thought to have had, so not sure what you are asking me here.

Do I think that it is possible for a townie to think that BBT was a vig kill? Yes.
Do I think it possible that the scum team would target him thinking he is a PR? Yes.

Did I think that you were scummy before your claim? Yes.

You just made three strawmans you could answer yourself.

The sentence: 'I don't think anything about the BBT kill' would have achieved the purpose of communicating that.

And why is it relevant if you thought I was scummy before? So did a bunch of others. This reads like you are pre-empting backing off the read, but you missed that train...

[Vivax]

Here we are, battling the forces of corruption.
For this purpose, I‘m looking for someone to ship 30 sacks of dry beans for this winter to me

[Vivax]

I mean, I‘m mentioning this cause fire asked me to, while they should be able to find the same stuff I found. But I suppose asking is fine from time to time.

I don‘t know either why I have this grasp on you if it‘s correct. But, working theory:

I‘m convinced some kind of distant perception exists over this forum game at times. I have been kinda essaying it throughout my games.
Sometimes I believe I can feel other‘s emotion‘s, not everyone‘s, not always. Similar to how mastina said that Ircher radiated scum.

I do prefer lighthearted games, but also the occasional headbutting. At the old community we used to have very vocal fights. Guess it gave me a thick skin, we were mostly able to be honest, and learn to deal with outbursts from some.

[Vivax]

And I made it clear I‘m not going to shoot you. See? That‘s the martyr mindset again.

[Vivax]

But you are sure we haven‘t played together before? Idk, maybe your posts remind me of someone else.

[Vivax]

VOTE: Titus

Fine, gonna flipflop again.

[Vivax]

vote count 1.06

with 21 votes in play, it takes 11 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-09-29 01:45:00).

firing

Ircher [9]:

mastina, Lukewarm, Titus, furtiveglance, Ausuka, RCEnigma, Klick, BlueBloodedToffee, Vivax

Ydrasse [4]:

Roden, Andresvmb, PenguinPower, Nero Cain

Titus [3]:

petapan, Malakittens, fireisredsir

petapan [1]:

Something_Smart

Vivax [1]:

Ircher

Roden [1]:

Uncrowned

Malakittens [1]:

jjh927

not voting [1]:

Ydrasse

mod notes

~ i am using a vote counter, let me know if there are any mistakes.
~ this is a mod note.

flavour

flavour

now playing...
♫

Magazin - Oko moje sanjivo

♫
▶ ❚❚ ●─────────────────────────────  0:01 / 3:04

VOTE: Ydrasse

Ircher was outed at this point but him quoting the VC here means he tried to dress this up as self-pres. Or maybe some flavour-related reason (I mentioned Lasagna in tft that just finished)

[Vivax]

I‘ll be honoured if anyone compared me to Garfield
It‘s surprisingly accurate lmao

Am I vain, or who? TF do I know I only play invitationals for now.
And also that we live in parallel realities. I <3 this country

[Vivax]

hi drunk titus, you think luke is scum? why?

Because he's pushing me.

Seriously check TFT

Luke was in tft?

[Vivax]

I‘ll be honoured if anyone compared me to Garfield
It‘s surprisingly accurate lmao

Am I vain, or who? TF do I know I only play invitationals for now.
And also that we live in parallel realities. I <3 this country

Luke scum. He expects me to acknowledge him because he posted a lot of words equalling waaah Titus caught my partner for bad reasons

Waaaah we ride shiny and chrome valhalla style?

VOTE: Roden

Ergh I can‘t stop laughing at all of this including past games

[Vivax]

I don‘t know I‘m on a safari currently

[Vivax]

Camp probability or camp odd coincidence

[Vivax]

i read a bit of tft but not enough to know what she's talking about, vivax do you?

Yeah, I see ‚signs‘ since two months (totally sane I know)
But from where I‘m standing it‘s hard to pinpoint the ‘reason‘, kindaaaa slowly getting there. But feels like wading through a jungle where every corner tries to pull you in.

In a game of mafia, first I‘d argue comes knowledge, then you weigh it, and figure out what the heck happened and who you should talk to.

Because tragedy of the commons, apparently

[Vivax]

But yeah I‘m vain as fuck. The entire family is, it‘s just not something you show irl if you don‘t wanna get into trouble around here. It‘s rather peaceful and rustical, and if you keep yourself humble on the outside you meet interesting peeps.

But presumably on a forum game I can be artsy, cheeky and whatnot

[Vivax]

I‘ll be honoured if anyone compared me to Garfield
It‘s surprisingly accurate lmao

Am I vain, or who? TF do I know I only play invitationals for now.
And also that we live in parallel realities. I <3 this country

Luke scum. He expects me to acknowledge him because he posted a lot of words equalling waaah Titus caught my partner for bad reasons

Waaaah we ride shiny and chrome valhalla style?

VOTE: Roden

Ergh I can‘t stop laughing at all of this including past games

What part of this conversation results in you going back to Roden?

I am confused

The WAAAAAAAHHHHH part

[Vivax]

Have fun !
Great posting.
Need to reread a lot of stuff clearly.

[Vivax]

Nice google ad
‚the horse as friend and partner‘
Riding school Ragnarök

While Russia greenlights tactical shrooms
fml
Meanwhile I‘m looking for a brain that‘s similarly bazonks
Turns out we‘re living on it

[Vivax]

Oh you might be an Empath, then. No, seriously. I am an empath and I have that exact same thing happen. I take on the emotions/feelings of those around me and have them as their own.
When people are sad, I get sad; when people radiate happiness, I become as happy as they are. I genuinely feel the emotions of others as my own emotions. Events that I have no emotional attachment to I get as emotional as the person who has the attachment to that event, feeling their feelings.

It works in person, but it also works online. I can pick up on the anger of someone and begin to feel angry myself. (This, ahhh...is not a good thing if someone is angry at me and I become angry at them.) I can pick up on a lot of emotions. It's not a 100% thing. It only works about 50-90% of the time. Where I have the connection established to be able to feel it.

So you're not wrong. It exists. It's real. It's a thing.

I

knew

there was a reason I instavibed with you in TFT.
(Empaths tend to have an easier time vibing with other empaths since they just collectively "get" experiences of each other.)

It's a trait that backfires easily. Is why I mostly prefer to be on my own with nothing but my thoughts. And often look like I'm daydreaming around others.
I also have this theory or superstition that if you throw a bunch together to resonate a thought, 'weird stuff' can happen. But maybe that's a discussion for another time.

[Vivax]

UNVOTE:

Funny posts should never feel awkward. It's easy to look townie when you're unafraid.
Unvoting cause I wouldn't mind Dann's take before we hammer.

[Vivax]

UNVOTE:

Funny posts should never feel awkward. It's easy to look townie when you're unafraid.
Unvoting cause I wouldn't mind Dann's take before we hammer.

No. It was the emotions. Horny drunk when y'all are sober would feel awkward I'd imagine.

I am not afraid of much in mafia. The only thing I get afraid of is screwing up the plans of others.

There's good faith and there's bad faith in the matter of intention, sometimes there's psychoticism that bad faith instrumentalizes.
Whatever you did while drunkposting, it's obvious good faith.

JJH is throwing me off with the Roden townread here (in a good sense, as it's the first crack in the wall needed maybe to get rid of Titus and Roden being main wagons), I need to socialize a bit irl and then will be back at night.

[Vivax]

If anyone ever tried to clone me I'd go full Connor MacLeod on

myself

them. They can't replicate the biography anyway, of watching simpletons bashing their heads in over boshite. It's fun in the mafia context, not so fun nowadays when it's a bunch of countries with tools bigger than their brains.
This is what we're playing, right? Doomer's last stand or something, unless you're in team kool aid (having fun is fine but jeez, why is nobody going out to make a ruckus like in the 70s)
Dangling from cliffhanger to cliffhanger like Mowgli on a thread of spider web after he's been dumped into a river and rescued by a wolf

[Vivax]

these reads feel kinda convenient

do you have any actual thoughts on: roden, mastina, titus, luke

it can wait till later if you don't wanna post big but yeah, like i said, those names you've all listed feel v convenient and i highly doubt we have all scum in the less active half of the game

VOTE: Malakittens

VOTE: Roden

cheeky L-1

So is this fella town or what?

[Vivax]

Tales from the willage: A friend of mine I visited today filmed a hawk landing on her balcony's birdhouse, devouring a sparrow before a squirrel went to check it out. Rather uncommon for a woodland bird. Kinda impressing that a gardener finds the beauty in that.

[Vivax]

sidenote: i'm also concerned with the lack of input from basically everyone who is parked on the ydrasse wagon, especially since the slot has hardly been commented on seriously by anyone

Concerned. VC looks like this.

Ydrasse [4]: Roden, Andresvmb, jjh927, PenguinPower

Next significant output is this.

roden needs to play the game

blue needs to play the game

andre needs to play the game

jjh wants to do things

i would like to see what develops between klick/rc

does S_S have input or is he just gonna chill while this goes through? same with ydrasse

i'd like to know where nero's heads at given the whole thing about ircher's wagon being too fast to hit L-1 on p14. has that changed now that things developed or is the sentiment still the same?

obviously there comes a point where waiting is just diminishing returns but i thiink we're ok to sit on this for a bit

Suddenly this concern doesn't look that relevant anymore.

[Vivax]

Back from my rounds.

I'd disagree on

Luke

being slamdunk town tbf. I could even see him paired with mastina. Mastina is the only one who saw what I saw on Luke. That'd be nice if I had a blanket agenda of pushing Luke, but could also mean she saw how I could be correct. And she voted Ircher for perhaps the wrong reason while knowing the correct one.

Titus

Roden

both town I

could

see. I don't understand why Roden went silent when I jumped in for him.

Klick

called both me and

Andres

town. Correct on my account. I don't think Andres would approach me in such an abrasive manner as town. But more input from Klick would be appreciated, I've found it valuable.

Ausuka

decided to put more effort in. That's about it, but worth a townread considering zero pressure. Probably just means the motivation went up.
On the contrary,

Uncrowned

dropped off heavily and is in the collective blind spot.
I hold

fire

in high opinion from Turing and am surprised they asked me to expound on Luke, didn't get any particular feedback. But I think they're town right now.

JJH

sticks out to me for dunking on me when I called Titus scum for reasons on D1 and now doing the same on Uncrowned. Someone mentioned him being a paragon, but there's not an actual rationale for thinking he's town.

FG

is consistently inquisitive, so I'm just gonna townbin him. Minus points for voting Mala with Uncrowned however.

Penguin

just kinda exists, but the lax attitude makes me think town.

Ydrasse

,

Mala

read like they're in a pit of exhaustion, or maybe lack of motivation. But yeah, tinfoil aside in a townie way, somehow.

[Vivax]

I don't get what you mean there

That maintains like 75% of that initial concern voiced in 469. That's looks like consistency to me

You're using math, and consistency is what made town catch Ircher for being too consistent, so it's not really an universal criterium.
I'm seeing someone voicing concerns (and avoiding calling it suspicion while at it) based on a wagon on Ydrasse as if the read on Ydrasse was something he could pivot from. But in the later instance of mentioning her, he kinda binned her in with the rest as if that perspective still wasn't in place.

[Vivax]

I don't think Andres would approach me in such an abrasive manner as town

EBWOP: As scum

[Vivax]

idle thought if roden flips town there’s mafia in the people who doubled down on him after he was being stubborn as an acceptable reason to kill him

titus valiantly trying to defy the drunkposting = town theory

Hey Ydra, is there a reason you are still on the Roden wagon?

Cuz she’s scum

The only thing that gives me paused on Roden is wagon distribution.

It's either a) scum shopping for a backup and failing or b) scum waiting out a TvT.

If we do move off of Roden, it should be to someone not voting for either Roden or myself.

someone like....s_s!

Two fresh takes, nice

[Vivax]

Suddenly this concern doesn't look that relevant anymore.

uhh

elaborate? I don't see the link

Ok, we know Ircher flipped scum. There wasn't really a guarantee from an uninformed point of view.
A smart-ish approach for scum would be to just generally suspect the counterwagon, which your post seemed to have the intention of doing. Without a way of guessing if Ydrasse was actually town, as your later post suggested.

[Vivax]

I dont think there's a world where enough slots get off ircher wagon for that to matter

How is that even relevant?
If I know Ircher is scum and see a counterwagon, my informed perspective will allow me to accuse the members of the counterwagon of trying to deflect off Ircher.

That should apply even more now that Ircher flipped scum. But you aren't really bothering with pushing thread into a specific direction or the one you formerly suggested was a bunch of scummers on Ydrasse for no good reason.

[Vivax]

And if I go the really, really lazy route and consider this entire day a bunch of noise while town argues over which TvT wagon is better and turn a sonar on, I get a bunch of names that should pop up: Klick, Uncrowned, Penguin, jjh, RCE, perhaps Ausuka.

[Vivax]

Roden if someone isn't sure whether or not you're scum (

*holds a very big neon sign pointing at myself*

) then claiming your productivity costs could potentially sway them one way or the other
Right now your refusal/reaction to pressure is making me think that you look scummy
I could very well be wrong about this, but I think you actually giving a satisfying answer to the question you've now been asked by multiple people who have different perspectives on your alignment would definitely help at least me accurately determine your alignment

This player writes a bit like fire lol
But yea that asterisk part leaves a sour aftertaste

[Vivax]

Pair them with S_S if they're scum, though
I seem to forget that player exists while looking for the subs

[Vivax]

So apparently the whole joke is this klick account being correct on everything
Question is if it's TMI or literally for the memes.

[Vivax]

So apparently the whole joke is this klick account being correct on everything
Question is if it's TMI or literally for the memes.

Literally for the memes is quite a funny phrasing

You don't say
The ride never ends, or seems to
But fiction can never trump truth that would simply send most insane at the current state of affairs

[Vivax]

How is that even relevant?
If I know Ircher is scum and see a counterwagon, my informed perspective will allow me to accuse the members of the counterwagon of trying to deflect off Ircher.

Ah.

I see.

You are saying that he was attacking the Voters at an opportune time, vs attacking the person who is the counter wagon.

It feels like the path of least resistance there would have been to go after someone who is already a wagon, then try to stir up a brand new one on the basis of having a vote parked.

Nah, if I see Ircher doing what he did I'm just going to assume he's dead in the water tbh
But I might get the idea to shade those who don't see the same

[Vivax]

And I don‘t know how Luke cooks posts so quickly but it‘s sort of scary and feels very reactive.

I secretly have 1,000 monkeys constantly typing away at keyboards in an office building, and I am just scanning through looking for the best ones to cop and paste. They have gotten pretty good at it, my posts in my first few games were nearly unintelligible.

I believe it
But if you think this text is unintelligible, oh

boy

[Vivax]

I can see mastina scum now.
But it's probs the only really active one

[Vivax]

Mastina could be;
Scum. Probs. Though she is the;
Only active one.

I see writing like a wave and an old deal struck at 5 AD at the eve of the Fall of Rome that persisted until today, while people follow their programming in their little bubble that keeps them sane, while a bunch of remnants of feudalism keep the servants at arm's length telling them this machine is going to last forever.

[Vivax]

Mastina could be;
Scum. Probs. Though she is the;
Only active one.

I see writing like a wave and an old deal struck at 5 AD at the eve of the Fall of Rome that persisted until today, while people follow their programming in their little bubble that keeps them sane, while a bunch of remnants of feudalism keep the servants at arm's length telling them this machine is going to last forever.

Old deal, Ancient Wave
A bubble keeps them sane while
servants are lasting

Servants don't consume fossils, machines do. You think the former is more valuable than the latter?
Should have become a resonance chamber, not a latifundium

[Vivax]

One of my favs in movies is Will Graham, what mastina would call an empath. A cranky guy who is drawn to sympathize with evil without imitating it.
If that makes you Hannibal, why would I ever have any interest into trying to sympathize with you ?

[Vivax]

VOTE: Lukewarm

b-b-beats

[Vivax]

After my intimidating pressure vote, Luke finally delivered
The temperature doesn‘t correspond to the usual name.

UNVOTE:

I really didn‘t like the wrong person to cater to part.
While I still sus Uncrowned, the S_S pick could have some merit

VOTE: S_S

[Vivax]

So, about that thing yesterday...
Did you know that you can save up on a lot of electricity by not playing mafia? And your chances of survival increase dramatically on a bean diet

[Vivax]

I rescind my vig claim

[Vivax]

i am one bad game away from policy votelocking anyone who fakeclaims

Mark Ausuka locktown for this game

[Vivax]

VOTE: Titus

Well, I really want to be right on that Roden tone-/motivation-read, and S_S doesn't seem to be happening, he popped in briefly on the last page or so.
Although I'd vastly prefer to kill anyone who posted less

[Vivax]

\
Check Roden's read progression on Lukewarm and fireisredsir.

Especially on D2.

Read progression on Luke: I said he's town

Read progression on Fire:

I mean, he's probably got a point here, or nay ?
I'd endorse it if players gave Luke more thread pull. Specifically players who are open to mastina scum.
But of course, the Roden flip is tempting, information-wise

[Vivax]

I rescind my vig claim

Wait, are you for real?

Good question.
I'm a neurobiological correlate of a parallel dimension of sensations and experiences, you?

(But really, scum knows it's nonsense and I am vig, I only give the cred to Ausuka though, so this looks like you're trying to replicate it lol)

[Vivax]

I rescind my vig claim

Wait, are you for real?

Good question.
I'm a neurobiological correlate of a parallel dimension of sensations and experiences, you?

(But really, scum knows it's nonsense and I am vig, I only give the cred to Ausuka though, so this looks like you're trying to replicate it lol)

You think that as Scum I would try and replicate someone else’s reaction for Town cred? No, I was actually furious for a short 5 seconds until I realized you’re probably just lying. I also don’t think there’s enough power at the beginning of the game if everyone used it to the max to lower the average sufficiently to allow for 3 NKs. I think it’s a rather clever way of ensuring the Scum don’t ever find themselves in a situation where they’re faced with a lot of Town power and cannot escape their fate so to speak further down to line.

Lying on a game of forum mafia. Who would ever do that?
Wait...How does anyone get into politics..Hmm. Oh yeah. News is what someone doesn't want you to see, everything else is advertising.
Names and symbols all over the place matter, and wealth makes the rules.

On a more serious note, Dannflor is a beacon of rationality here. I sort of believe your reaction.

Uncrowned is more of a null for me at the moment, but I agree that Roden would be informative. And we got some nice wagons to analyze afterwards.
Mala is mia, hope she's recovering

[Vivax]

Wouldn't be surprised if Klick's were the best reads in the game tbf
Probably one of the players where I'd close my eyes and chainsheep

[Vivax]

I rescind my vig claim

Wait, are you for real?

Good question.
I'm a neurobiological correlate of a parallel dimension of sensations and experiences, you?

(But really, scum knows it's nonsense and I am vig, I only give the cred to Ausuka though, so this looks like you're trying to replicate it lol)

You think that as Scum I would try and replicate someone else’s reaction for Town cred? No, I was actually furious for a short 5 seconds until I realized you’re probably just lying. I also don’t think there’s enough power at the beginning of the game if everyone used it to the max to lower the average sufficiently to allow for 3 NKs. I think it’s a rather clever way of ensuring the Scum don’t ever find themselves in a situation where they’re faced with a lot of Town power and cannot escape their fate so to speak further down to line.

Lying on a game of forum mafia. Who would ever do that?
Wait...How does anyone get into politics..Hmm. Oh yeah. News is what someone doesn't want you to see, everything else is advertising.
Names and symbols all over the place matter, and wealth makes the rules.

On a more serious note, Dannflor is a beacon of rationality here. I sort of believe your reaction.

Uncrowned is more of a null for me at the moment, but I agree that Roden would be informative. And we got some nice wagons to analyze afterwards.
Mala is mia, hope she's recovering

I’ll just explain what I meant because you’re being condescending for literally no reason. Sure people lie in a game of mafia I mean if you want an award for stating the most obvious things you are way ahead of everyone else. No, I meant, in the context of what was being discussed and what you said, assume I am Scum, I don’t bother trying to imitate someone else’s reaction because what’s the point? What do I get? Instead, I either push you there thinking you rescinding your claim opens an avenue of attack. Or I defend you because I think that’ll make me look better. I just felt like smashing you over the head instead. And then I realized it wasn’t worth the effort.

I don't think I was being condescending. Rather, mirroring. You have tonally always approached me aggressively in this game, so you're playing to expect aggression back. If I don't play into it, that could make me mafia. If I do, then I do what you want.

[Vivax]

I buy his claim,

For anyone who is interested, I think that a role like the one Roden has claimed is almost guaranteed to be in this game.

Compare Peta's role to the standard Wiki description

Each Night, you may

target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether or not that player is able to privately communicate with another living player (you cannot distinguish between a player who is alone in a private topic, and a player who does not have private topic access at all).

during the night,

target a player. assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether or not that player is able to privately communicate with

at least one

another living player,

via private topics or otherwise.

you cannot distinguish between a player who is alone in a private topic, and a player who does not have private topic access at all.

It is very clear that Datisi copy and pasted the role from the wiki, and then made slight modifications. He purposefully made it extra clear that it included communication methods beyond PTs. That seems to Roden's role.

I also feel like it is good design to make peta's traffic analyst have a false guilty, so that it is not just a cop.

Wow, nice catch. But the otherwise is really weird.

[Vivax]

i skim roden's iso and it's like

mailman who can get messages back for free right ?

that claim is probably real ya but i don't get how alignment follows that one

If you were modding a 21 player and you gave Mafia 4 players (not confirmed), would you give 2 Mafia useless abilities?

This FG or Uncrowned? Not that dissimilar in style, but FG writes more neutrally.
Btw this game started as a death metal concert and now it feels more like reggae, vibes-wise.

[Vivax]

Ah, actually it's Dannflor's argument from before I think. Well, one doesn't exclude the other two if you get my drift.

[Vivax]

Friendly reminder that one of the roles that already flipped would be a false guilty for the traffic analyst that would itself create additional false guilties

Also worth noting that scum are also likely to have a role that would be able to 'explain' the guilty if they got hit by the traffic analyst because that's pretty common design

Roden is town regardless but the mechanical reasoning on this page is pretty poor. Roden being town is very much in spite of the mechanical reasons for him not to be

Yeah, jailkeeper causes false guilties.
The flirt causes them too, though iirc the details correctly.
So you'd be expecting a scum neighbourizer if you thought Roden was town, n?

[Vivax]

Anyway, need to make my rounds, collect protection money, have a drink, then send my curriculum to the PLA /jk

But jjh is sort of implying he's neighbourized with Klick and thinks that's the scum, methinks

[Vivax]

First quote shouldn't be there

[Vivax]

Anyway, need to make my rounds, collect protection money, have a drink, then send my curriculum to the PLA /jk

But jjh is sort of implying he's neighbourized with Klick and thinks that's the scum, methinks

No, you're completely off, but I wouldn't really expect you to be on the same page as me

Thanks for the feedback. Taking wild guesses is something you don‘t like I suppose.
But my vote is still on Titus and we share the Roden townread,so I don‘t get your hostility.
I get it that I like to drift off from the main goal of this game for entertainment, but that can‘t be a bad thing since it‘s just that.

[Vivax]

I find speculating about specific reads from dead people being why they were killed to be incredibly unscientific and really not worth time at all

Honestly. That‘s just bogus.
Especially when you‘ve been playing with each other for years.
But this post in a room just doesn‘t look honest.

[Vivax]

o

I have an obligation to support the CW, but I'd argue it's a very townie trait of thought for you right here.

[Vivax]

Wouldn't be surprised if Klick's were the best reads in the game tbf

Klick is voting Roden and has the main defenders of Roden as in his nulls or scum.

What do you think that says about Roden's alignment, then?

^ this one

Sidenote:
So how's the reality in front of you in America? Mine seems to be rather different, but I wouldn't see why you'd have a right to know it with how...

[Vivax]

... there's rather little amounts of you throughout Europe, or the world for that matter . Which is a shame, nothing's holding you back save of yourselves .
But when you turn on an electronic devices, what is the first thing you see ? Or rather, whose ?
And when you go out of your doorstep, what is it instead ?

[Vivax]

Wouldn't be surprised if Klick's were the best reads in the game tbf

Klick is voting Roden and has the main defenders of Roden as in his nulls or scum.

What do you think that says about Roden's alignment, then?

^ this one

Sidenote:
So how's the reality in front of you in America? Mine seems to be rather different, but I wouldn't see why you'd have a right to know it with how...

I'll have to take this back, your quote being townie, rather. Just looked tunneled enough to be town, but it's still not true.
Applies to many things lol

[Vivax]

I don't see you using Klick's opinion in good faith here right after I said that I valued it.
That's just very very manipulative

[Vivax]

So I'll personally just lock mastina scum and advise town to listen to Luke. Who for some reason isn't already being listened to. Seems familiar, but 5head enough to be paranoid about, so it's excusable for a while. But this is just Luke town imo and has more clue than anyone else.

[Vivax]

Vivax you confuse me, but I guess I'll take the voice of endorsement lol

Did you go read other games of mine or something?

You'd rather want to ask yourself why a lot of town seems to treat you like the dumpster gameplay-wise
No I didn't read any Luke games under that name

[Vivax]

Same as klick, or Roden. From my limited experience limming Roden seems like some kind of meme

[Vivax]

Be comfortable in the fact that someone will bring the rage

[Vivax]

@Vivax:

I'd prefer if you shot me over Luke tonight so that Mastina can't hide behind her fake scum read on me all game.

Tell me this isn't original thought while on the Roden wagon with a straight face.
Any town on it is just empwering a charade

[Vivax]

A very long charade aimed at self-extinction with a very high cost for the responsibles

[Vivax]

I re-rescind my vig claim
and claim doomsayer

chirp chirp

[Vivax]

In Jubilees 10:1, another angel called Mastema appears as the leader of the evils spirits.

Caught you, mafia scum

[Vivax]

After another hour of tedious, most dutiful and game-focused scumhunting, I have finally assembled a comprehensive list of salient suspects. Salient, but low on salt to keep your blood pressure low while reading this bombastic piece of outstanding information, that I should probably charge copyright fees for, and fear prosecution from the Spanish winquisition. But luckily, the PLA has decided to accept me, I shall meet you on the battlefield:

Spoiler:

[Vivax]

In the apocryphal Book of Jubilees, Yahweh grants the satan (referred to as Mastema) authority over a group of fallen angels, or their offspring, to tempt humans to sin and punish them.

The plot thickens
thus we became the clot chickens

[Vivax]

Kabbalah presents Satan as an agent of God whose function is to tempt humans into sinning so that he may accuse them in the heavenly court

Presumably uncrowned/creature

But were you able to do that outside of here without effort ? Or were you made to do it ?
Should you have been able to do it, you'd have stayed away from everyone else, or not ? Until the relevant age~number of delivery
Unless you enjoyed it, which is unfathomable when you see every action in life as slavery

[Vivax]

Uncrowned what do you think of the idea scum might be bussing Roden

not impossible but unlikely, i would say

Hard at work here to avoid that

Spoiler:

[Vivax]

Why are you so desperate to discredit someone you think will flip scum and has no sway or power in the game?

Like you just get town spewed if I flip red, right?

Though you could do a readslist or something
If you're scum, remember to go into anti-spew and post the opposite of the actual alignments.
Also remember to troll your browser on the regular so it trolls you back. It's really conscious already.

[Vivax]

I believe mastina's reads have strong potential to be very good from early on. So I'll let her know I may or may not just be fueling the CW for *reasons* and she shouldn't take my suspicions too seriously, I'm not gonna tunnel. Just in case that it's been frustrating lol. But not a townlock.
This game must be insanely frustrating for scum. Looking at the wagons I could even see Fire/Dann/Roden team atm, or at least the votes look that way to me.

[Vivax]

If I muse a bit about psychology, I'd wager that one of the lessons I learned is that in the dark triad, a narcissistic empath is the poison that unmasks the machiavellian psychopath

[Vivax]

Strategic reasons and improving mafia morale

[Vivax]

Quite awe-inspiring ngl

[Vivax]

Why are you so desperate to discredit someone you think will flip scum and has no sway or power in the game?

Like you just get town spewed if I flip red, right?

Though you could do a readslist or something
If you're scum, remember to go into anti-spew and post the opposite of the actual alignments.
Also remember to troll your browser on the regular so it trolls you back. It's really conscious already.

I gave a final reads list.

Mb, missed it for the lack of formatting on a first scan
If you do end up flipping scum, your tone has improved a lot
Meanwhile tho

UNVOTE:

[Vivax]

Half the game has been successfully exorcised
Maybe we should play interpret the flavour
A few post in a way that seems simply..Not ok
Like an overload that led to short circuit
So they need their souls retrieved

[Vivax]

So when I started playing here, someone mentioned the return of the mafia hospital. I can‘t get rid of the feeling that it blew up somewhere. And there‘s too much subliminal stuff around for me to have any orientation.

It‘s kinda depressing when you don‘t feel like you can cheer someone up who might need it, as I thought it was a main reason to play the game, or maybe learn stuff on the side. I don‘t have a particular incentive to make this a brain power contest.

Besides, it‘s draining to be so focused on the internet all the time. A mafia break does wonders to stop it from being a sweatfest. Peeps who play constantly are forced to lose their spark of originality over time and it becomes a chore.

Admittedly I hardly ever lose motivation to write in this context.

[Vivax]

VOTE: Roden
L-1

The false reality persists (google search said so)

[Vivax]

GG thanks for the invitation