Open 865 | CultD3 | Postgame

[Roden]

VOTE: Hutmeil

Target locked

[Roden]

That would only be true if we mis-elim today. On the other hand, if we kill the Leader today then town gets like, five more chances to kill the second cultist. So it's a bit swingy.

[Roden]

Well they would be "Known 15" if they had a picture

ooooo
UNVOTE:

Why the unvote?

[Roden]

I agree with the early read on Elements, CL probably just does their best to fade into the background D1.

[Roden]

Fred looks like he's having fun, probably town just because he's staying active while not making a big deal out of the slow game activity

Drapion, do you think Gamma is the CL? Or is it just a general scum read?

[Roden]

I think I get why Gamma finds the wording weird. It just sounds like another way of saying it's a town lean or weak town read, but with the implication that you don't want to commit to the read.

PE: I sort of got it, it seems

[Roden]

You seem very careful this game, Drapion. Like your tone feels more controlled than usual.

[Roden]

You seem very careful this game, Drapion. Like your tone feels more controlled than usual.

How so?

In other games you typically feel off the cuff with the way you speak and play. Here you seem like you're putting in an effort to consider your words and appear succinct so there isn't any room to misunderstand you.

My initial thought was "maybe he's a town PR and I shouldn't mention it yet," but I don't think you're careful as a PR either. Do you think you're posting any differently than usual?

[Roden]

You seem very careful this game, Drapion. Like your tone feels more controlled than usual.

How so?

In other games you typically feel off the cuff with the way you speak and play. Here you seem like you're putting in an effort to consider your words and appear succinct so there isn't any room to misunderstand you.

My initial thought was "maybe he's a town PR and I shouldn't mention it yet," but I don't think you're careful as a PR either. Do you think you're posting any differently than usual?

Not really?
What’s the difference between this game and the micro game I had where I Vigi shot both wolves?

Idk if you're trying to defend your skill here but I'm not saying anything about how you're playing, it's how you're talking. In the Micro you do seem different there, you're less wordy and I don't get the feeling you're reading over your posts before you hit submit.

[Roden]

I'd be shocked if Gamma were scum tbh, early game investment is typically +town for him

[Roden]

Look at the post above yours?

[Roden]

I think me saying that Gamma's play is +town has a pretty huge effect on that theory. I'm pushing on Drapion, but I also scum read Hutmeil since they've done next to nothing so far and feel frozen.

[Roden]

0%

Now town lock me

[Roden]

Wrong game oof

[Roden]

Oh sweet, I can actually read Math

Vibe of the game so far was that your slot wasn't doing much and seemed frozen. I scum read Drapion independently of Hutmeil, but I read Hutmeil's inaction as scummier. Meg, Elements, and Gamma all seem pretty townie, not sure on Mala and Fred yet. NK15 is a player that I'm waiting for a meta tell before I settle on a read there.

Why no question/comment for Drapion?

[Roden]

VOTE: Drapion

Last few posts just look like an intimidation tactic. Warning someone that you'll vote them if they do a certain thing doesn't really make any sense from a town perspective. Why let your suspect know how to avoid getting scum read if you actually think they're scum?

[Roden]

Math isn't scum. Whenever he's polarizing like this it usually means he's town. I know that he can emulate it as scum as well, but I don't think he claims VT and intentionally avoids playing to survive here if so.

[Roden]

CL Math has to claim VT here so I don't think the claim is AI

Why wouldn't he follow me on Drapion then? If he's CL it would be the best play for him. If I'm wrong on Drapion then it makes me look bad and I can be pushed tomorrow. If I'm right then he has me pocketed.

Granted...he would know I'm cautious around him and that I would look out for a potential pocket. If he's scum then he would try to play around me like he has in past games.

If I had one thing I would say concerns me. It's that he isn't trying that hard to convince me to vote with him.

[Roden]

Math isn't scum. Whenever he's polarizing like this it usually means he's town. I know that he can emulate it as scum as well, but I don't think he claims VT and intentionally avoids playing to survive here if so.

So wait.
Who’s your town reads exactly?
Math and Gamma?
Or all my voters as well which just includes Not Known.

Meg Gamma Elements Math.

I could vote NK15.

[Roden]

CL Math has to claim VT here so I don't think the claim is AI

Why wouldn't he follow me on Drapion then? If he's CL it would be the best play for him. If I'm wrong on Drapion then it makes me look bad and I can be pushed tomorrow. If I'm right then he has me pocketed.

Granted...he would know I'm cautious around him and that I would look out for a potential pocket. If he's scum then he would try to play around me like he has in past games.

If I had one thing I would say concerns me. It's that he isn't trying that hard to convince me to vote with him.

I mean why do you believe Math would always vote me here.
Like I already explained to you how they wouldn’t.

Like if Gamma is the Cult Member that isn’t the CL and is voting me, Math doesn’t want to also vote me, Math as the CL wants to distances away from me while still trying to indirectly have others vote me like you and Meg and you have done so.

Why would CL!Math let himself die today instead of voting to survive at least one more day?

[Roden]

Like the CL just needs to recruit one player and the cult actually has a really good chance of winning this, even if the CL gets voted out the next day.

[Roden]

Math isn't scum. Whenever he's polarizing like this it usually means he's town. I know that he can emulate it as scum as well, but I don't think he claims VT and intentionally avoids playing to survive here if so.

So wait.
Who’s your town reads exactly?
Math and Gamma?
Or all my voters as well which just includes Not Known.

Meg Gamma Elements Math.

I could vote NK15.

Um that is a very weird readslist IMO.

Can I ask why you didn’t say anything in regards to Elements and Gamma interaction, like if you thought both of them were town why didn’t you start trying to state your opinion there and same in regards to Math and Meg why are you continuing to let town attack each other?

Can you explain you thoughts from both interactions between Gamma-Elements and Meg-Math please.

I town read Gamma and Elements because of their interactions.

How did you come to the conclusion that I'm letting town attack each other when we're having this conversation right now exactly because I disagree with Meg and Math going after each other?

[Roden]

Like the CL just needs to recruit one player and the cult actually has a really good chance of winning this, even if the CL gets voted out the next day.

Great if Math doesn’t get executed today and gets executed tomorrow and flips CL, I’m going for you after Gamma cause this post screams “Convert Me” in Math’s view.

???

What?

This basically says that you think I'm town and that you're letting the cult know they don't have to recruit me because you'll vote me anyway.

[Roden]

Roden has your read's reasonings on Drapion shifted significantly since the start of the wagon?

I think he's just looking worse as the game goes on. He keeps trying to scare people into doing what he wants and talking in a way that's giving tips to the cult in how they should play tonight.

[Roden]

Was that hammer?

[Roden]

Ok no, I thought he had more votes. That's E-2.

[Roden]

Drapion, what's your read on NK15?

[Roden]

What's cult leadery about not voting in your first post?

Being afraid of voting and taking a stance.

I did take a stance.
On Gamma.
I thought their push on Elements was wolf motivated and still do.

I feel like you would just be dead by now if two townies were hard pushing town!you like this, that seems like a free invitation for the Cult to join the wagon and win. Especially because NK15 and myself would be solid wagon choices tomorrow if you flip town.

What do you think of the wagon on NK15? If your solve is Gamma/Math then isn't that another pure town wagon? Why aren't cult jumping on that either?

[Roden]

D1 ended with me feeling pretty good about my reads, but it just now hit me that the recruit means we're partially resetting our reads today.

Math is the one slot I feel really good about today. I don't buy Drapion's WIFOM and I think he spewed Math town, and I doubt he'd be recruited with how strongly he was getting scum read yesterday. Recruit most likely happened somewhere in the null reads/low activity slots since they'd be the safest choice, but I don't really want to look for recruits today, I wanna hit the CL.

Town reads in Meg/Gamma/Elements will have to be re-evaluated. Gamma at the very least definitely isn't CL.

[Roden]

Fuck it.

VOTE: drap

Bai.

VOTE: Mala

This felt like a "stop talking" quick hammer when it happened. We weren't close to deadline yet, and Mala doesn't have any readable content or associatives.

I do think roden is town tho

Hot take: I think you are town too

UNVOTE: gamma

Don’t think he’s scum.

VOTE: NK15

Bai

Unless you count these posts I guess. But the Gamma town read wasn't explained and neither was the vote on NK15. I feel like her reads/votes were just matching the game state at the time, if anything.

[Roden]

Exp to me why gamma is town.

I kinda get why math is spewed town which I agree with btw

Check Drapion's ISO and CTRL+F "Gamma". His interactions with Gamma were heavy and largely negative/tunneling even early on into the game, it's just way too much to be a bus. That along with my reasons for town reading him D1 make me think that at the very least, he isn't CL.

[Roden]

Roden you may be right and Mala scum but she makes more sense as cult not CL.

I don’t think a CL quick hammers their only buddy like that.

Who do you think is most likely CL?

I do agree that Mala fits the bill for a recruit target though.

[Roden]

Roden you may be right and Mala scum but she makes more sense as cult not CL.

I don’t think a CL quick hammers their only buddy like that.

Who do you think is most likely CL?

I do agree that Mala fits the bill for a recruit target though.

I have a few theories but I want to see who responds to what before giving an overarching view.

I think I have a pretty good idea who I wanna flip but I think we are still missing a few people checking in to be sure

I think everyone's checked in at this point.

[Roden]

Now comes the question of who Roden would convert.

If they tried me and failed they would know they would need to buddy me. Especially if they think I am the inconvertible Townie.

This really matches his open and why I wanted to back off and give space to see if someone else was a convert target.

Nothing is striking me now which makes me think he failed the convert.

VOTE: Roden

?

I'm one of the main reasons Drapion even got voted out. Your and NK15 both became competing wagons, and even though I scum read both of your slots at different points, I never hopped over despite the fact it would've been justified. I don't think there's any universe where I bus Drapion as hard as I did for no reason and then try to recruit someone who claimed VT.

[Roden]

Oh sweet, I can actually read Math

Vibe of the game so far was that your slot wasn't doing much and seemed frozen. I scum read Drapion independently of Hutmeil, but I read Hutmeil's inaction as scummier. Meg, Elements, and Gamma all seem pretty townie, not sure on Mala and Fred yet. NK15 is a player that I'm waiting for a meta tell before I settle on a read there.

Why no question/comment for Drapion?

Oh sweet you can read me (continues to vote me and shade me)

Then you vote Drapion.

Imho in prior games you were a lot more mobile with your votes.

I think you were forced to vote Drapion by thread pressure and couldn’t back off either way without sacrificing your standing.

Can you quote where I voted and shaded you?

[Roden]

Shade is 176.

Vote was on hutmeil and not moved.

176 => strongly implies you read me as scum.

I didn't have a read on you at that point, 176 was in response to your introduction post where you asked my opinion on the game.

Howdy Reading now.

I am so glad to be town for once.

To that end kinda wanna see where everyone’s head’s at:

Meg: Long time no see. Who is your top town and scum read?

Mala: Is this it? The fabled game where we are both town and alive?

Roden: What are your vibes of the game so far?

Elements: Don’t know you that well. What’s your favorite thing about the game so far?

Campbell: Looks like your a strategy guy. Do you have a plan now or more just thinking mechanics?

Gamma: Nice work in the theme game. Gonna see if you have similar vibes. Any strong reads/feels?

NK15: Got any spicy thoughts? Usually you are good but tend to be drowned out so hope you see this and drop a spicy thought or read.

[Roden]

Math...you have to have content before I can read you...

[Roden]

Like, I could have just kept my vote on you. Multiple people wanted you gone, and instead I defended your slot. You made it clear you didn't want to vote Drapion, and if I was CL and wanted to use that against you I would've made sure Drapion interacted with you in a way that made you look worse so that I could mis-elim you today. The way you're describing my play otherwise makes it sound like you think I just fumbled the game and didn't know what I was doing.

[Roden]

Vote Count 1.04

I've been waiting for her for so long
Open the sky and let her come down

MathBlade (3):

Roden, Elements, Fredrick A Campbell

Gamma Emerald (2):

Malakittens, ProfessorDrapion

ProfessorDrapion (2):

Not Known 15, Gamma Emerald

Not Known 15 (1):

MegAzumarill

Roden (1):

MathBlade

With 9 alive, it's 5 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 1 is September 28 at 11:00 AM EDT.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-09-28 11:00:00)

Vote Count 1.05

What does revolution mean to you?
To say today's like wishing in the wind

ProfessorDrapion (3):

Not Known 15, Gamma Emerald, Roden

MathBlade (2):

Fredrick A Campbell, MegAzumarill

Gamma Emerald (2):

Malakittens, ProfessorDrapion

MegAzumarill (1):

MathBlade

Not Voting (1):

Elements

With 9 alive, it's 5 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 1 is September 28 at 11:00 AM EDT.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-09-28 11:00:00)

I don't understand why I kill the momentum on a strong mis-elim and instead bus my cult buddy here.

[Roden]

Yeah I really don't agree that because I didn't town read you after you wrote a single RQS post that I must be the CL

[Roden]

I didn't take back a read on you. Like there's nothing else to say here, what you're seeing here is a completely foreign interpretation of what actually happened.

What I'm understanding is that because I didn't unvote Hutmeil after you replaced in, you think that I scum read you as well. If that's the case, that's something I can understand. If not, I don't know what to say, I can't argue with something that I know didn't happen.

[Roden]

Why are there so many blank votes? And what's the case on Elements?

[Roden]

I feel like I'm falling off a bit this game, sorry

I don't want to vote Elements because of their D1 play and interactions with other players, I just don't get the vibe that they're the CL. However I don't really have a compelling case besides my vibe read. Meanwhile NK15's case seems genuine, it clashes with my read but I think I could just be wrong on Elements. NK15 is town by meta, so I'm willing to follow him here since I do feel like Mala's been townier today anyway.

VOTE: Elements

[Roden]

I feel like I'm falling off a bit this game, sorry

I don't want to vote Elements because of their D1 play and interactions with other players, I just don't get the vibe that they're the CL. However I don't really have a compelling case besides my vibe read. Meanwhile NK15's case seems genuine, it clashes with my read but I think I could just be wrong on Elements. NK15 is town by meta, so I'm willing to follow him here since I do feel like Mala's been townier today anyway.

VOTE: Elements

What is your NK15 meta?

Basically, my experience has been that he has a really hard time faking conviction. So if you can tell that he believes in what he's saying, then you know that he's town. It isn't that he's a bad liar as scum, he's just so transparently earnest when he's solving as town.

[Roden]

I already gave my reasoning earlier for why I thought Mala was the CL. I don't think it ever really got refuted, instead her posts just got a bit better and I started doubting my read over the gap in time of the site going down for a few days.

NK15, if you're getting paranoid now then could you look back at my case on Mala? If you don't have any issues with it then I'm fine with trusting my gut and going back there. But don't drop your suspicion on Elements just because of paranoia.

[Roden]

A chance for what? Elements already claimed and NK15 wanted them dead days ago. The only other option is running up Mala, and it looked like we don't want to force any more claims today.

[Roden]

Life's a bit hectic atm but I'll do what I can to post.

Not shocked at all by the Cop claim, NK15 was pretty openly soft claiming it yesterday. If I saw it then the Cult definitely saw it, and I feel pretty confident that him claiming to have checked Math last night just means he got recruited. Math doesn't make sense as a Cop check, nobody really thought he was the CL on D2 and NK15 had instead heavily suspected Mala. I don't think it makes any sense to want to elim Mala yesterday but then Cop check a consensus town read. Though it makes perfect sense to do so as a Cult recruit, because telling us that a town read is town is better than claiming anything about Mala's alignment.

[Roden]

I mean I don't really see much of a viable alternative.

Who would you say is Cult Leader?

It's between you/roden/fred

Again:

I thought fred was the cop hence me backing off D2.
I have to reexamine

unless drap really bussed roden I don't think its roden

which leaves me between u/fred

at least in my POV

If NK15 is real like you said, Fred can't be CL

So initial thoughts were that Fred got recruited N1 and the team was Mala/Fred/NK15. But this looks a bit like theatre to me, which seems unnecessary, but if the Cult knows Mala likely gets yeeted today then theatre isn't the worst option if you want a recruit to go deep after the death of the CL. In this case, it's possible Meg got recruited instead of Fred, and that this back and forth between Mala and Meg is meant to frame Fred through associatives.

[Roden]

Life's a bit hectic atm but I'll do what I can to post.

Not shocked at all by the Cop claim, NK15 was pretty openly soft claiming it yesterday. If I saw it then the Cult definitely saw it, and I feel pretty confident that him claiming to have checked Math last night just means he got recruited. Math doesn't make sense as a Cop check, nobody really thought he was the CL on D2 and NK15 had instead heavily suspected Mala. I don't think it makes any sense to want to elim Mala yesterday but then Cop check a consensus town read. Though it makes perfect sense to do so as a Cult recruit, because telling us that a town read is town is better than claiming anything about Mala's alignment.

Interesting. What softs did you think you saw?

I was thinking someone else softed Jailkeeper.

I really don’t see how you get NK was softing cop.

Can you go into that more?

It's mainly his approach to Fred. He hardly interacted with him beyond some light suspicion D1, but then hard defended him D2 with no progression or reasoning on why he suddenly thought Fred was town. His thoughts had wavered on every player except Fred.

[Roden]

I especially want to see what Roden proposes and to take an actual stance on something.

Roden I am pretty sure is scum here.

?

I gave my reads and what I think the team is and what the order of recruitment. Claiming that I've proposed nothing and have no actual stances is just, bewilderingly wrong here. Right now I'm just waiting for Johnny to catch up since I don't see any particular reason to argue with anyone that is obviously cult, because you're pretty much my only town read talking right now.

[Roden]

The only thing I'm interested in talking about right now while we wait is your paranoia on me, because we literally just lose if you pivot onto me.

[Roden]

I especially want to see what Roden proposes and to take an actual stance on something.

Roden I am pretty sure is scum here.

?

I gave my reads and what I think the team is and what the order of recruitment. Claiming that I've proposed nothing and have no actual stances is just, bewilderingly wrong here. Right now I'm just waiting for Johnny to catch up since I don't see any particular reason to argue with anyone that is obviously cult, because you're pretty much my only town read talking right now.

Who are your townreads that aren't talking?

Johnny's overextended catch-up isn't doing much to address the current game state. Fred is also barely here; I'm pretty certain he isn't CL due to how NK15 played around him and my belief that NK15 was not recruited N1.

[Roden]

Don't plan on voting atm. Johnny did you finish catching up?

[Roden]

No I hit a really gnarly Math post on whatever page I left off on and I go cross eyed every time I try to process it

But hey I'm here if you wanna chat

What do you think the chances are of CL!Mala self-voting here vs notCL!Mala?

[Roden]

Vote Count 2.04

Ow, I was born to the city
But I longed to roam free

Elements (3):

Gamma Emerald, Not Known 15, Malakittens

Malakittens (2):

Roden, MegAzumarill

Fredrick A Campbell (1):

Elements

Roden (1):

MathBlade

Not Known 15 (1):

Fredrick A Campbell

With 8 alive, it's 5 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 2 is October 7 at 9:00 PM EDT.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-10-07 21:00:00)

Vote Count 2.05

Well, the night, it rise above you, rise above me
And the blues, they swirl around me

Malakittens (4):

MegAzumarill, Fredrick A Campbell, Elements, Not Known 15

Elements (3):

Gamma Emerald, Malakittens, Roden

Roden (1):

MathBlade

With 8 alive, it's 5 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 2 is October 7 at 9:00 PM EDT.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-10-07 21:00:00)

Roden can you remind me/elaborate why you switched wagons here

My meta read on NK15 made me trust his case on Elements + I was losing confidence on my Mala CL scum read since I wasn't facing much resistance to it.

[Roden]

It’s funny that no one is just trying to reassess and step into my shoes here.
I’m town but no one is giving me the benefit of the doubt and tbh it’s kinda demoralizing which is where I’m at the moment


UNVOTE: me

It's kinda impossible to give you the benefit of the doubt here when you self vote and don't get quick hammered. It's an instant loss if you were town, which means at this point we have to figure out if you're a recruit trying to draw the vote or if you're the CL trying to scare people off.

For me, I think unvoting sooner rather than later makes sense as a CL, because the AtE attempt looks less convincing as time goes on and you're not yet hammered.

[Roden]

Still no quick hammer here.

Pretty sure both recruits are voting the CL currently but that isn't really a new take from me. But I think the lack of quick hammer + the gutsy nature of their push just means that this is the correct vote, and that the following days are mainly going to be a battle where you're the tie breaker, Math.

[Roden]

Why would I vote when Math just said to post to remove quick hammer team options? Furthermore Fred asked for another day, so I'd rather not put Mala in self-hammer range and cut discussion short.

[Roden]

If Malakittens were cult leader, that might indeed explain why they haven't been executed.

I am not sure town aligned players would dare vote in an execute or lose scenario.

Did you really need an entire day just to say this

[Roden]

Kinda done with wasting time and doing nothing. Unless someone gives me a hard "no" here, I'm just gonna vote in an hour from now.

[Roden]

VOTE: Mala

[Roden]

I think it's over

[Roden]

No actually, Day 1 was real.

[Roden]

Yeah Meg's the one who pointed out NK15. I mainly just pushed whatever Meg was mentioning in the PT and tried to draw negative attention away. They were actually the last person I suspected too before I got recruited, so I didn't really have to fake my read there.

[Roden]

GG, and thanks for modding!