Mini Normal 2285: GM [game over]

[Herta]

Breathe.

VOTE: Flippy

[Herta]

I am in a very manic state today so bear with me lol.

Kitty Mania

[Herta]

The IC post would be easy to miss for me because it typically takes me awhile to get to the intro material. This game I was specifically waiting for it to start though. I don't know whether it's AI for scoliosis but I'd give them a pass at this early point.

[Herta]

Val prob town or very good maf

31 gives val a starting point for sure. We'll see what he does with it from here.

[Herta]

20 does look kind of try hard for so early but, again, just something to note at this stage.

[Herta]

Posting here on a hunch.

[Herta]

The IC post would be easy to miss for me

Easy to miss in general? Sure, maybe.

Easy for the player who is try-harding enough to draw something AI from 3 'hi' posts? Not buying it.

I double don't buy it when I note the slots Scoliosis didn't comment on - KT, because the voting pattern specifically drew attention to Toto, and FlippyNips, who also didn't vote (and if fact explicitly disclaimed voting D1).

I'm wanting to give this a bit of space now, but I do also want to encourage people to actually think through the thought process that results in post 20 and evaluate if it actually makes sense before handing out free passes.

I understand the tendency to shrug and say 'eh, whatever' since I know we aren't catching scum in the first page most of the time, but if that is the conclusion you come to let's make that a considered conclusion at least.

Nah there's no sane reason to over-analyze this unless you're tryharding yourself.

[Herta]

innocent or not guilty?

[Herta]

Skimming the game before I sleep, nothing stands out as exceptional enough to comment on yet. The townleans are fine for now.

This statement strikes me a bit as odd. There is nothing exceptional to comment on yet you are fine with waving through the townleans made so far? For 1,5 pages that's kind of exceptional imo. Feels like a statement for a statement's sake.

VOTE: Church

Good vote I think.

VOTE: church

[Herta]

Skimming the game before I sleep, nothing stands out as exceptional enough to comment on yet. The townleans are fine for now.

This statement strikes me a bit as odd. There is nothing exceptional to comment on yet you are fine with waving through the townleans made so far? For 1,5 pages that's kind of exceptional imo. Feels like a statement for a statement's sake.

VOTE: Church

Good vote I think.

VOTE: church

As for you, why do you think it's good? Is it that you agree with what's been said so far, or that you have something else you believe I've done that is scummy?

A spirited post here.

[Herta]

Nah there's no sane reason to over-analyze this unless you're tryharding yourself.

What do you think of my vote on you?

I figured you had a reason.

[Herta]

My Scoliosis townread is kinda eroding ngl. The last 2 posts just seem to be looking to be made to start an early push (it's 2 pages in) on pretty flimsy reasoning.

Scoliosis is obviously town and i'm starting to scumread you

By meta I don't think kitty's scum.

[Herta]

That's all I got

[Herta]

That's all I got

If you make a statement like 'by meta i don't think kitty's scum', i would expect you to be able to elaborate a bit more on it

Why did you say that you don't think he's scum?

You

expect

that of me? Let's see here. You didn't ask the question, Toto did. I don't give much mind to what you demand wrt why I meta read Kitty town right now. Do you have reason to disbelieve me? If so lay it out. Otherwise if you're that curious why don't you dig up some Kitty games and take a spin? God knows I'm not going to do it for you.

Or you can rephrase your question because you come off pretty aggro on that and maybe I'll be more amenable to give you a better answer.

Why did you ask me what I thought of you voting me? I haven't seen a follow-up to that yet and it seemed kinda important to you at the time?

[Herta]

Sup town!

Val prob town or very good maf

VOTE: church

My Scoliosis townread is kinda eroding ngl. The last 2 posts just seem to be looking to be made to start an early push (it's 2 pages in) on pretty flimsy reasoning.

Scoliosis is obviously town and i'm starting to scumread you

By meta I don't think kitty's scum.

Tell us more

Do you have any comments on posts between 47 and 70 other than the post immediately before your 70?

[Herta]

Sup town!

Val prob town or very good maf

VOTE: church

My Scoliosis townread is kinda eroding ngl. The last 2 posts just seem to be looking to be made to start an early push (it's 2 pages in) on pretty flimsy reasoning.

Scoliosis is obviously town and i'm starting to scumread you

By meta I don't think kitty's scum.

Tell us more

Do you have any comments on posts between 47 and 70 other than the post immediately before your 70?

And why did you vote church anyway.

[Herta]

@herta i was going to ask the exact question but i continued reading and saw toto did and didnt see a point in asking it twice

But when you didnt really explain when toto asked you (71) i decided to ask 74

Usually when someone says something like 'i don't think x is scum by meya' i expect them to (be able to) follow up that statement with a sentence or two of an explanation explaining their reasoning and how they got to that conclusion

You've made the claim, the onus is on you to back it up, not on me to start reading old kitty games

I don't have any particular reason to disbelieve that statement, but i don't have any reason to believe it either, and i want to know why you made it

And i asked cuz i was curious if you had any thoughts on it

Fair enough. Every game I've played with kitty that he's been reasonably engaged and stick-to-his-guns as in going deep on a hunch and apparent genuine curiosity he's been town. There's one difference but I'm going to sit on that right now and let it develop to help my read because I'm not sure about an aspect of it.

[Herta]

@herta i was going to ask the exact question but i continued reading and saw toto did and didnt see a point in asking it twice

But when you didnt really explain when toto asked you (71) i decided to ask 74

Usually when someone says something like 'i don't think x is scum by meya' i expect them to (be able to) follow up that statement with a sentence or two of an explanation explaining their reasoning and how they got to that conclusion

You've made the claim, the onus is on you to back it up, not on me to start reading old kitty games

I don't have any particular reason to disbelieve that statement, but i don't have any reason to believe it either, and i want to know why you made it

And i asked cuz i was curious if you had any thoughts on it

Fair enough. Every game I've played with kitty that he's been reasonably engaged and stick-to-his-guns as in going deep on a hunch and apparent genuine curiosity he's been town. There's one difference but I'm going to sit on that right now and let it develop to help my read because I'm not sure about an aspect of it.

Oh and it's a bit early to say he's gone deep but the signs are there.

[Herta]

Why did you ask me what I thought of you voting me? I haven't seen a follow-up to that yet and it seemed kinda important to you at the time?

When you can.

[Herta]

Do you have any comments on posts between 47 and 70 other than the post immediately before your 70?

Not really, I figured as conftown I don't bring a lot of value to the conversation other than my own flawed reads.

Oops sorry I forgot you're IC.

Carry on.

[Herta]

And why did you vote church anyway.

Why else, he sounded scummy, why are you asking me?

While I did forget that you're IC, that kinda makes this question even more important I think.

[Herta]

Every game I've played with kitty that he's been reasonably engaged and stick-to-his-guns as in going deep on a hunch and apparent genuine curiosity he's been town.

Ig i'm not sure how you can tell he's displaying these traits at this point
Why weren't you willing to answer this question before?

I thought I was in a 1v1 with Toto, which I was but I didn't need to be because IC.

[Herta]

I lost my phone so will be even slower than usual until I figure out what I'm doing with that.

[Herta]

Could you give a contrast between Herta/Church? I think their posting style is actually similar

I ... am not even sure how to approach this fully as i don't think they're similar at all

Herta - i felt a lot of fluffiness/wishy-washyness/agreeing-to-agree in early posts like 33, 34, 35, bandwagon-y church vote, statements that they didn't seen willing (or able) to back up (like the kitty townread off of meta), and the whole 'i don't want to answer these questions' thing

Church - thought 40 was fine, don't love that they've mostly interacted with their wagon thus far and want to see what their content looks like when they come back

Pedit oh dear i hope you find it >.>
Can you explain 137 again plz? Why did you not want to answer the question because you were in a 1v1, and how does him being ic change that?

I wanted to see how far he'd go with me. Nothing changed except I figured out to drop it.

[Herta]

I lost my phone so will be even slower than usual until I figure out what I'm doing with that.

I'll probably find some time at the office.

[Herta]

Okay I had a pocket scum read on skitter last night but I feel better about her today for some reason.

[Herta]

I missed two pages what.

[Herta]

I really thought you'd scum read me, val, with 37 but I don't get a vibe that you've even considered me.

[Herta]

Those cat's eyes are blue.

[Herta]

unwnd do you scum read anyone yet?

[Herta]

Posting here on a hunch.

gera what happened here?

[Herta]

Posting here on a hunch.

gera what happened here? I felt let down.

this game has taken so long to get going, ive been in the queue for ages

im going tobe so out of my depth with this game, excuses now for bumbling through it.

anyways, Wales off to play Iran in 19 minutes. i am hopeful of a 2-1 Welsh win

[Herta]

im going tobe so out of my depth with this game, excuses now for bumbling through it.

Actually what is this your I'm an inept clown scum game? I've seen that before.

[Herta]

VOTE: gera

[Herta]

You've given off bad juju the past few posts but I can't pin it down.

[Herta]

No no, more specifically how I feel like you're easily distracted

Honestly why are you voting gera for a post he made ~9 pages ago? Why is this now your new distraction

I don't know what you mean by distracted.

[Herta]

Your posts don't seem like they're going anywhere

That is my fundamental problem with you, you're just sorta involved with various things at surface level

If you think that's true why do you have a problem with it?

[Herta]

Pooky swoops in and takes over

VOTE: scoliosis

[Herta]

That's E-1 or E-2

[Herta]

I don't think scum (Dann) enters with a case like that against lhf (me). If it was a chainsaw like Pooky said it seems there are easier ways to do that?

[Herta]

[i have not been very engaged so far this game, can you tell?]

Yes, unfortunately, you can.

I'm asking myself if scum!geraintm makes that post. My initial thoughts are that geraintm smells like LHF here - if scum!geraintm's game plan is to hang back and lurk it down, they could have done a better job without this. This "page 17 was a bunch of crap and that's important to note"; "my RVS vote is being shading by scum" etc seem like they could well be surface-level thoughts by town not really enganing.

Actually what is this your I'm an inept clown scum game? I've seen that before.

I have seen some hints scattered around that indicate perhaps those initial thoughts aren't to be trusted with geraintm in particular. I'm feeling a touch on the lazy side, so if someone who thinks there are meta reasons to be reading geraintm differently then pointers will be gratefully received.

Well you're right re geraintm and it took me a minute to think about it and I voted him out of frustration more than anything. I don't remember who said that geraintm's lack of caring about day 1 smacked scummy, but geraintm does that every game. He does, however, know how to use that as a scum tool -- I have seen him explicitly state it in scum PTs. He did assign naughty points where I thought he should for the most part. I don't think he's anything other than null right now.

There are a lot of heavy hitters in this game and it looks like egos clashing.

I do think skitter has scum equity. When town she's fairly generous in her analysis and looks at things from a more open point of view. Here I'm finding her not doing that so much. It's like she's picking at little things maybe that I don't think she usually does.

[Herta]

I don't think scum (Dann) enters with a case like that against lhf (me). If it was a chainsaw like Pooky said it seems there are easier ways to do that?

I don't understand this post

wouldn't a case against "lhf" be the easiest way to chainsaw

this reads like appeasement and isn't actually helpful to anyone trying to read you correctly if you're town

you need to talk about your opinions on scoliosis (who you just voted!!) or Pooky or like anything else important

I'm not a major wagon right now it doesn't matter that you town read me

No I really don't. If you don't think I'm not addressing things I find important you're confbiasing or something.

[Herta]

In post 651, Herta wrote:
He does, however, know how to use that as a scum tool -- I have seen him explicitly state it in scum PTs.

That's the sort of thing I was looking for, and if you have a specific game in mind I would be grateful.

Nevermind, I found it. Would still like clarification as to what you think I am right about though? You think gera is LHF and regret the vote there?

No I think geraintm is solidly null at this point. I think your point it could be a rope a dope strat or not is valid. But as I type that it seems you're not really committing so I don't know.

[Herta]

the inane comments thing also applies to geraint/basically everyone who has shitposted at any point so I don’t really see how that’s unique to herta

They don't have a lot of more serious content to even out their posting

What on earth are you even talking about?

[Herta]

also his "i become readable over time" is kind of bullshit since he literally won at endgame viewtopic.php?p=13483106#p13483106

by barely playing the entire game.

I am 90% sure if people take time to look at my posts over a game I can easily be spotted as scum. I know my posts (and votes) are different as scum and I can't help it.
I have zero idea why people struggle to spot me as scum.

There is no way I should ever be allowed to get to an end game any more without being checked, last game I begged and begged for people to look over me early doors so I wouldn't be a problem later.

How is your play in this game different from

Subject: Mini 2273: SDTLLSP 2 | Mafia Hideout

Hi.
I've never played with a traitor before either, so this is going to be weird.
I don't think we've played together before.

I will be useless day 1, I will sit there and moan and about pointless it is. My vote is very, very unlikely to be on the final wagon

People will hate me day 1, and at some point either day 1 or day 2 there will be a push to eliminate me, but I can usually count on enough people I've played with to go "oh, that's just the way he plays" for it not to matter

[Herta]

the inane comments thing also applies to geraint/basically everyone who has shitposted at any point so I don’t really see how that’s unique to herta

They don't have a lot of more serious content to even out their posting

What on earth are you even talking about?

For example, why is this the only thing you chose to respond to?

So what are you talking about?

[Herta]

Good post.

VOTE: gera

e-1

[Herta]

Looking at votes

Pooky's scoliosis push pretty quickly faded. He riled up everyone and unwnd votes sco in 458, Pooky at 459, Toto at 498, Herta at 508,. Then unwnd unvotes at 512 and Pooky unvotes at 555. At 557 Pooky says he's going to go back to scoliosis and he goes on to vote geraintm at 794 and just kind of drops the scoliosis push altogether while still talking smack about him.

Skitter votes me at 38 for reasons I still don't understand, unvotes at 462 because there's no wagon, and then revotes me at 607. She has pretty much sheeped Dann's case on me, which isn't a good one.

KittyTacky is doing what I would expect a town KittyTacky to do, tunnel on his initial read, which is scum!scoliosis who he voted at 11 and hasn't moved of of.

Ydra hasn't voted for anyone other than Pooky at 335 and then an unvote at 465. I don't remember Ydra being so uncommital but I don't remember a lot about their play in general.

Freedom has made one vote, geraintm at 722, and hasn't really committed to anything.

It took Val a long time to move off of his skitter vote at 106, when he voted scoliosis at 930, despite the obvious fact that there has been no will to wagon skitter all Day.

Geraintm has an RVS vote on me at 44, that he says is RVS but if you look at the post it doesn't look like RVS. No commitment to anything from him.

Dannflor's vote record looks okay: unwnd at 167 (could be RVS), Pooky at 419, Herta at 520, scoliosis at 749, geraintm at 866, and scoliosis again at 929, and the more I look at it the votes on unwnd, Pooky and Herta weren't really wagon votes so I think he looks better than what I had the impression of.

scoliosis doesn't look opportunistic, Val at 20, ydra at 41, skitter at 284, pooky at 468, unwnd at 551 and geraintm at 579. None of them were being wagoned except for the vote on ydra(church) was starting a wagon, and the vote on geraintm was the second vote.

Innocent Villager voted me at 79, pooky at 104 and geraintm at 107 with an unvote at 871. There's nothing scummy.

unwnd votes scoliosis at 458 after Pooky's case and unvotes at 512 when scoliosis says something to change their mind, geraintm at 753 sheeping IV with an unvote at 945.

I'd have KittyTacky and Innocentvillager as town. Maybe Val, Dann, unwnd as null town. geraintm as null scummish, freedom as null, Ydra as null, scoliosis as null scummish, Pooky as null scummish. Skitter as scum.

There's nothing really distinct btween Ydra and freedom. I could see being very wrong on Dann, unwnd and/or Pooky. My pool for today would be geraintm, scoliosis and skitter.

[Herta]

That was up to mid-day today. I need to add this evening.

[Herta]

Herta’s posting vibes this page kinda wack idk

What's wack?

[Herta]

Herta did you write 1043 in response to Pooky..?

No it was a work in progress from the past couple of days. still is a work in progress.

[Herta]

I don't think I could get that done in 7 minutes even on coke.

[Herta]

Herta why are you scum reading skitter again?

I do think skitter has scum equity. When town she's fairly generous in her analysis and looks at things from a more open point of view. Here I'm finding her not doing that so much. It's like she's picking at little things maybe that I don't think she usually does.

It's pretty much her treatment of me. Her close mindedness just gotten worse as the game has progressed. Typically she is able to at least see what I'm seeing even if she doesn't agree with it.

[Herta]

Scum seem to be okay with either lim I guess.

[Herta]

There's no push toward one or the other.

[Herta]

If Gera is scum shouldn't there be more pudding toward scoliosis and vv.

[Herta]

What do you think?

[Herta]

True

[Herta]

vice versa

[Herta]

Do you think we should kill scolio then?

[Herta]

Day started not feeling it will see tomorrow.

[Herta]

I'm more confident reading unwnd as town now.

[Herta]

Herta who do you scumread?

VOTE: Skitter

Also you seem to have missed the part where unwnd wants you dead.

Considerate of me isn't it.

[Herta]

K but why?

Herta why are you scum reading skitter again?

I do think skitter has scum equity. When town she's fairly generous in her analysis and looks at things from a more open point of view. Here I'm finding her not doing that so much. It's like she's picking at little things maybe that I don't think she usually does.

It's pretty much her treatment of me. Her close mindedness just gotten worse as the game has progressed. Typically she is able to at least see what I'm seeing even if she doesn't agree with it.

[Herta]

Why Pooky again?

Do you have any reads freedom?

[Herta]

Anyone can explain how to read herta again and why he is town/scum here?

I can see town!herta thinking he is a lhf and and easy target to come for, so the skitter tunnel scum case makes sense from that pov. At the same time he is not contributing much to resolving the game which is scummy, but that seems to be his approach to the game as both town and mafia from the few games I could look into.

Also herta, if you are town, can you town up?

Did you even read my EOD reads list? Are you even reading any of my posts?

[Herta]

Why Pooky again?

Do you have any reads freedom?

I think that Val is probably Town and because you don't seem openwolfy, you also might be town.

No scum reads? Scoliosis?

[Herta]

Why Pooky again?

Do you have any reads freedom?

I think that Val is probably Town and because you don't seem openwolfy, you also might be town.

No scum reads? Scoliosis?

Scol seems a bit odd today.
I don't really like that his focus on Kitty.

Does that mean you townread kittytacky?

[Herta]

I don't read scoliosis as scummy as yesterday. Really thought he was flailing a bit but I don't see him as a priority today except that his flip may help read other slots since he's been in the thick of it.

Really don't know why unwnd would scum read me. "Weird phrasing" can't be a real reason right? It's probably just a general scum read like I usually get.

[Herta]

Why Pooky again?

Do you have any reads freedom?

I think that Val is probably Town and because you don't seem openwolfy, you also might be town.

No scum reads? Scoliosis?

Scol seems a bit odd today.
I don't really like that his focus on Kitty.

Does that mean you townread kittytacky?

Not really but I feel like Town would pay more attention to other slots.

Well you didn't list him before when I asked for reads. I guess you're null reading him. I are you reading anyone else as null?

[Herta]

But not t/t?

[Herta]

VOTE: Scol

We’re not ending this day when some people are literally not even playing. My vote is still spiritually here.

@Datisi it’s Day 2 not Day 1

We're not ending but you just did?

[Herta]

Oh your already on and meant to unvote?

[Herta]

no opinion, what opinion should i have

I don't think scoliosis is particularly scummy but it would be a good flip because he's been in the thick of it the whole game. It would inform the alignments of some others.

[Herta]

no opinion, what opinion should i have

I don't think scoliosis is particularly scummy but it would be a good flip because he's been in the thick of it the whole game. It would inform the alignments of some others.

Please elaborate on how it would inform the alignments of others

How much clarity do you gain on a Scol scumflip or townflip?

We're going to be able to better judge probably why there was resistance or not from particular players. To what degree I don't know, but if scoliosis flips red then we can pretty much lock kt as town, whoever had that brush with scoliosis at the beginning of the game val maybe as town. Probably others.

[Herta]

I'm not Herta but I feel like what he's saying makes sense as we could look at how people interacted with Scol's wagon.

Kinda this I guess.

[Herta]

I would buy that brochure.

[Herta]

I don't think scoliosis is going to flip maf at this point either. If nothing else because it's been difficult to get the lim done. I don't know why gera would defend him so hard, and same with skitter.

[Herta]

I feel like Town will want to contribute some final reads but scum will try to dismantle their wagon.
Scol seems to be doing neither.
So I'm conflicted tbh.
Though, leaning scum for his focus on you.

I don't understand why scoliosis focusing on kitty is scummy but kitty focusing on scoliosis is townie. And Is scoliosis really tunneling kitty?

[Herta]

I don't know where this goes.

Is no one up for a skitter wagon?

[Herta]

Roll credits.

[Herta]

Math the specific message in the signup thread was that this is a complex game so fyi.

[Herta]

Math the specific message in the signup thread was that this is a complex game so fyi.

Yep

I don’t think I can be any more blunt here

And toto is informed that Mafia have ninjas or are ninjas or smth.

[Herta]

But what is the scum motivation? If he comes in and we lim a Town!pooky we just lim math tomorrow.

[Herta]

VOTE: pooky

e-1

[Herta]

Well, I can only advise you make "eventually" sooner rather than later; who knows how long any of us have left?

I also think that Herta needs to take a stance on where they want to be re: Sco and Pooky.

I wanted to wagon Herta earlier with your predecessor because I don't really have a good read there, and I thought I might have some shot of getting a read if we could force them to play, and that would also help me get a handle on Skitter. (Herta and Skitter look pretty unaligned where I'm standing). It unfortunately didn't happen, but Ydrasse has convinced me that skitter can wait a phase.

pedit: OK, that'll do it.

I think pooky is more likely scum than scoliosis at this point. Pooky's back and forth between scoliosis and gerantim was not good because I don't think pooky would kill bc of policy over an actual scum read. It seems convenient? Scoliosis is less scummy today but I do think their flip would be informative. And pooky's would too. I just think pooky's scummier than scoliosis.

Also this:

Pooky's scoliosis push pretty quickly faded. He riled up everyone and unwnd votes sco in 458, Pooky at 459, Toto at 498, Herta at 508,. Then unwnd unvotes at 512 and Pooky unvotes at 555. At 557 Pooky says he's going to go back to scoliosis and he goes on to vote geraintm at 794 and just kind of drops the scoliosis push altogether while still talking smack about him.

[Herta]

I think pooky is more likely scum than scoliosis at this point. Pooky's back and forth between scoliosis and gerantim was not good because I don't think pooky would kill bc of policy over an actual scum read. It seems convenient? Scoliosis is less scummy today but I do think their flip would be informative. And pooky's would too. I just think pooky's scummier than scoliosis.

OK, thank you. Which "actual scum read" of Pookies did you have in mind?

The other wagon, scoliosis.

[Herta]

skitter30, Herta

p wild that these two have been tunneled on each other as scum but think its cool to work together

It's a jungle out there.

[Herta]

there's nothing townie in enchant's entire iso and skitter handwaving it to vote me with her #1 scumread is pretty lulzscum

Enchant seems oddly resigned for a rep into a slot that's constantly under fire. I'd think town would put in more effort.

Kitty is scum, i recognize this pattern of providing nothing of value by attacking already doomed slot to give impression he does something.

That's the scummiest thing you've said. Kitty is obv town.

[Herta]

Want me to hold your beer?

[Herta]

Any last thoughts?

[Herta]

Kitty has been obvtown the entire game. That enchant hasn't read anything isn't anything you or anyone else can be expected to know.

And if you look at the specific post from enchant he says there's a pattern of adding nothing to the conversation by kitty and that kitty is giving the impression that he's doing something. For someone who hasn't read the game or at least kitty's iso, that's a fairly disingenuous thing to say. It's a bald accusation with really no basis in fact. This past Day or so I haven't really thought Scoiosis or enchant were particularly scummy, but that post is a damn scummy post. Why make that claim if you don't know what kitty has been doing the game? Near as I can tell it's only to discredit kitty in an effort to distract from something.

[Herta]

But I like insulting you, Enchant. You take it so well.

[Herta]

It's beautiful. Be honest.

[Herta]

Herta’s vote onto Enchant seems pretty bizarre

???

[Herta]

Herta’s vote onto Enchant seems pretty bizarre

???

Herta if you didn’t see I asked you a question (if ur already responding ignore this)

I saw the question and I think enchants answer is plausible. I obviously didn't read it as a meta read on kitty. But you did I guess so I suppose that's on me.

But my question had to do with you thinking I voted enchant.

[Herta]

it kind of feels like herta is using the kitty townreads as a bludgeon on enchant if that makes sense

What do you mean by this? Kitty has been obvtown.

[Herta]

Reminder that herta trajectory here is p awful
(And if anything thinks *that's* viable lmk)

You should go through that trajectory. I'm curious as to what my agenda is here.

[Herta]

it kind of feels like herta is using the kitty townreads as a bludgeon on enchant if that makes sense

What do you mean by this? Kitty has been obvtown.

white-knighty i guess is the best comparison but i don't think it's quite right
like you have these thoughts on kitty (i do too) but the way you posted them at enchant felt wrong because it's like
you're scummy to question kittytacky how dare you

like you're offended for kt lol

I kinda was. Kitty has been playing his town game. But the thing I didn't like about enchants post was he alleged there was a pattern of uselessness and whether you think kitty is town or not that's clearly not true.

[Herta]

ehhh

it's hard to gauge that sort of statement w/o flip i think
wolf enchant is of course going to call someone screaming for their head a useless wolf
town enchant thinks kitty is useless because like, yeah lol this slot is very wrong about them

Don't you eee. It's not about the label it's about the reasoning. He could have called him a Martian and the reasoning still wouldn't hold.

[Herta]

Honestly makes me thing Kitty is actually town and you are whiteknighting them.

Well kitty _is_ town.

[Herta]

Herta, who do you SR?

Skitter is scum.

[Herta]

Okay I'd really prefer skitter of course. It's not me. I have like nothing to do here. But I will vote Pooky. And Freedom is getting like no scrutiny at all.

Pedit VOTE: pooky[/vote

Where are we vote wise.

[Herta]

VOTE: Pooky

That's L-2

[Herta]

,

,

,

Dats spamming.

[Herta]

Are we gonna see like 5 people die tomorrow because mafia are planning on chaining nightkills

I assume that isn’t possible in a normal game but Datisi did say it was complex…?

Yeah i really dont think this is a thing

Can we plz vote herta now?

VOTE: herta

Agreed that val looks worse

Skitter gets Xmas Tesla for killing me. But I'm a Grinch.

[Herta]

I used chat GPT to translate and evaluate the statement in the context of a mafia game:

"Skitter, a werewolf in our game, earns a Christmas Tesla as a reward for defeating and killing me. Despite this, I continue to play the role of the Grinch and do not appreciate the prize."


"It is not clear from the given statement whether the author is playing the role of the mafia or the town in a werewolf game. The statement mentions that the author has been defeated and killed, which could suggest that the author was a member of the town and was targeted by the mafia. However, it is also possible that the author was playing the role of the mafia and was simply expressing their frustration at losing the game. Without more information, it is difficult to determine the author's role in the game."

VOTE: chatGPT

wishy-washy

It's hilarious how accurate that first paragraph is.

[Herta]

Yeah I wanna know too ydra. If skitter is an inno I don't know.

[Herta]

Ugh!

Guess I'll wait for Fireb.

[Herta]

I'm vt. Seems scum not killing any night is questionable especially after no one died n1 they'd be desperate to kill. And then another night where no one dies? Too out there for me.

[Herta]

If scum are ninjas would that confuse your result ydra?

[Herta]

Nah. I think Kitty was just wrong, not scum.

[Herta]

if you want to murder skitter, i feel like the actual decision is to flip Ydra to prove her role.
if she flips town, we know skitter got framed and is clear. (minus ascetic possibility i guess)
If flips scum then we have to flip skitter tomorrow.

She got no result because you presumably JK tiger. So flipping them doesn't tell us much imo.

I just find their claim super convinient. They are now useless to town. I also don't find the claimed lack of night actions believable given wagon pressures. Also some previous potential breadcrumbs were hinting different things imo.

my action doesn't stop ydrasse action. She wouldn't get no result, she would get skitter didn't visit anyone if skitter was scum

It's a check was successful it not. It doesn't say whether someone visited someone.

[Herta]

I'm okay with doing but this is one of the more interesting games I've been in.

[Herta]

I'm okay with doing but this is one of the more interesting games I've been in.

This was supposed to be dying, not doing.

[Herta]

If scum are ninjas would that confuse your result ydra?

I'm not Ydra but I doubt that it would as Ninja only affects roles that are Tracker/Watcher-like.

Doesn't checker fall into that category?

[Herta]

Like 60-40 it's accurate and
60-40 skits is town based on Occam and her interactions with pooky don't look like partnered
60-40 ydra is town bc game is hard and roles are funky so role somewhat makes sense, and ydra interactions with pooky are neutral
I still don't understand the inno exactly but willing to wotc.

[Herta]

Think freedom might need to be looked at later too. Not sure.

What if we are making this too hard and scum shot IV twice?

VOTE: Freedom

Wym?

[Herta]

Freedom is kind of a hero shot. He has no interactions with anyone really at least none that mean anything I don't think. So his flip is wasted if green bc no associations. I don't it but I'd rather someone who gives us an idea of rest of team.

[Herta]

Freedom is kind of a hero shot. He has no interactions with anyone really at least none that mean anything I don't think. So his flip is wasted if green bc no associations. I don't it but I'd rather someone who gives us an idea of rest of team.

don't mind it but

[Herta]

Herta posted some ...thoughts...

I really don't know. What do you not like about what I posted?

[Herta]

If we kill Freedom we don't get much, hope we hit red. If we kill Val or me we get some info anyway. I'm not sure what my green flip tells you. I don't think it does much if anything to solve skitter. She and I have been going at it since page 1, but if I die you can't automatically red slash skitter because of the weird ydra skitter invest and result. Maybe it pushes skitter a little bit more toward scum, but I don't know. I don't know anyone else you can consider on my flip.

I defended Kitty hard I think, so do you lean green on Kitty then?

I defended Freedom, but really only because he's low-info flip with his lack of interactions and late-in-the-day voting. Really I'd love to flip him but again low info. But what does my flip tell you about him?

Everyone else has wanted to kill me at one time or another or at least kind of still does. So ???

I guess Val but I'd have to iso him to see his interactions because he posts like once or twice a day and really the only things I remember about him are his scoliosis push and him voting for me a couple of times for reasons I don't think were ever articulated. I know I was town reading him and he's got more content than I do so I guess?

My preference would be to lim in Ydra/Skitter and I want to say Val but I want to look him up first. I don't like deciding on Ydra and Skitter but it's just a weird climate this game. I don't get it, and I think everyone is kinda stuck. So maybe in the end we just pick someone and flip. Does Ydra lie about that? Really? I dunno if big fake plays are part of her scum game. I just dunno much in this game at all except there seems to be a mood.

So if we're going to go in {freedom, val, herta} I'd prefer val but outside of those three I guess ydra even though skitter has seemed scummy all game but her interactions with pooky looked uninformed.

[Herta]

Ydra claimed role and the way it was presented just doesn't seem scummy

[Herta]

Yeah a no yeet will just end up with mafia no-killing or taking a shot at a PR or IV. The game won't move forward and we might lose a town voice. I want somewhere within the VTs. Herta has been just

there

all game.

What does that tell us? Flip from what do you get? Val? Me? How do any of those inform who the rest of the team is?

[Herta]

My preference would be to lim in Ydra/Skitter and I want to say Val but I want to look him up first. I don't like deciding on Ydra and Skitter but it's just a weird climate this game. I don't get it, and I think everyone is kinda stuck. So maybe in the end we just pick someone and flip. Does Ydra lie about that? Really? I dunno if big fake plays are part of her scum game. I just dunno much in this game at all except there seems to be a mood.

[Herta]

This is fine.

VOTE: Ydrasse

[Herta]

I'm starting to feel Math scum myself. I can't follow some of these scenarios. They don't make sense, like the one skitter pointed out in 3045. (This is the second time I've agreed with her lol.)

Regardless I've actually been having a hard time following math's thoughts all day, independently of the following:

I think skitter's been questioning math, and I've just maybe confbiased myself from agreeing with her.

And I get the impression that Math is trying to discredit skitter and there's a bit of genuine incredulity on behalf of skitter?

fixed broken post tags for the vote counter. ~D

[Herta]

also i think if you suspect shenanigans, uh, the fact that we have two roles claiming with their whole chests to block kills... while we have like, nothing but no kills, is uh. well.

This is a really good point. Why do we have to protectives like this.

[Herta]

ydra can be scum but i think no-killing n1 is wild
but if that happened math has to be scum with her here

I doubt ydrasse is scum. Why inno you when it’s a free miselim (if you’re town)?

She could have picked anyone else if lying.

I am back to Fire + Skitter and Fire blocked Ydrasse I think

You think Fire's scum and you're accepting his role claim?

[Herta]

vla through 12/31

I'm fine with flipping in freedom, herta and val. We get a dead body with freedom, some info with Herta, and more info with Val I think.

This game has me questioning everything really. Even the lock IV town read. I can see where toto is going with that. I think that's the reason for my little pings about Math also.

[Herta]

Anyone thinks it is possible/likely all three scum were on the Gera wagon?

geraintm [7]: Scoliosis, Toto

, Freedom, Herta, innocentvillager, Val89,

PookyTheMagicalBear

[HAMMER]
Scoliosis [4]: KittyTacky, Firebringer, MathBlade, Ydrasse
Herta [1]: geraintm
unwnd [1]: skitter30
not voting [0]:

If not at least one scum in {Kitty, Firebringer, MathBlade, Ydrasse, Skitter}.

It's funny the answer is almost the equivalent to are all PR claims true?

So which two of freedom. IV and Val do you think? I mean if that's the theory and I'm townreadin iv, the team is exactly Val and freedom. I don't know that I can see them pulling off a Scum strategy that doesn't involve at least one claiming or countering a pr.

[Herta]

It was important for us to know 0 that there were ninjas. Otherwise the game is unbalanced??? Or is the ninja thing a red herring? It doesn't feel like it is. I mean what is it distracting us from?

[Herta]

I know you had questions iv. I'll get to them. I was just looking in before bed.

[Herta]

Herta can you tell me a bit more about your scumgame vs town game - and why from your point of view you are town this game, and should we be able to see it

I'm apparently scummy regardless of my alignment. I think I have more direct mannerisms than a lot of people are used to and that doesn't read as friendly as people are used to here. But I get run up fairly regularly no matter what. I think pooky is probably right in his analysis that I'm more wooden as scum, but I don't really see it. So I don't know what to tell you.

Looking at votes

Pooky's scoliosis push pretty quickly faded. He riled up everyone and unwnd votes sco in 458, Pooky at 459, Toto at 498, Herta at 508,. Then unwnd unvotes at 512 and Pooky unvotes at 555. At 557 Pooky says he's going to go back to scoliosis and he goes on to vote geraintm at 794 and just kind of drops the scoliosis push altogether while still talking smack about him.

Skitter votes me at 38 for reasons I still don't understand, unvotes at 462 because there's no wagon, and then revotes me at 607. She has pretty much sheeped Dann's case on me, which isn't a good one.

KittyTacky is doing what I would expect a town KittyTacky to do, tunnel on his initial read, which is scum!scoliosis who he voted at 11 and hasn't moved of of.

Ydra hasn't voted for anyone other than Pooky at 335 and then an unvote at 465. I don't remember Ydra being so uncommital but I don't remember a lot about their play in general.

Freedom has made one vote, geraintm at 722, and hasn't really committed to anything.

It took Val a long time to move off of his skitter vote at 106, when he voted scoliosis at 930, despite the obvious fact that there has been no will to wagon skitter all Day.

Geraintm has an RVS vote on me at 44, that he says is RVS but if you look at the post it doesn't look like RVS. No commitment to anything from him.

Dannflor's vote record looks okay: unwnd at 167 (could be RVS), Pooky at 419, Herta at 520, scoliosis at 749, geraintm at 866, and scoliosis again at 929, and the more I look at it the votes on unwnd, Pooky and Herta weren't really wagon votes so I think he looks better than what I had the impression of.

scoliosis doesn't look opportunistic, Val at 20, ydra at 41, skitter at 284, pooky at 468, unwnd at 551 and geraintm at 579. None of them were being wagoned except for the vote on ydra(church) was starting a wagon, and the vote on geraintm was the second vote.

Innocent Villager voted me at 79, pooky at 104 and geraintm at 107 with an unvote at 871. There's nothing scummy.

unwnd votes scoliosis at 458 after Pooky's case and unvotes at 512 when scoliosis says something to change their mind, geraintm at 753 sheeping IV with an unvote at 945.

I'd have KittyTacky and Innocentvillager as town. Maybe Val, Dann, unwnd as null town. geraintm as null scummish, freedom as null, Ydra as null, scoliosis as null scummish, Pooky as null scummish. Skitter as scum.

There's nothing really distinct btween Ydra and freedom. I could see being very wrong on Dann, unwnd and/or Pooky. My pool for today would be geraintm, scoliosis and skitter.

Also, this was your big notes post a while ago, after scum pooky prompted you to provide some thoughts. You said you were working on these notes. Did you stop taking notes/do you have other notes to share with us?

I was working on this, you're right. I was tracking all the votes from Day 1 or whatever Day that was in Excel and was working off of that. I forgot about it sometime during that Night so I haven't updated anything. For me to track the rest of the votes and work like I was might be a little ambitious.

[Herta]

Is Freedom who you are landing on IV?

[Herta]

dumb thought but i think while note taking and info gathering is p nai i want to think herta would feel a little more shame in saying @yeah i gave up”
also i’ve never seen anyone admit to like vote tracking in excel lol

I like finding excuses to use Excel.

[Herta]

I guess if we're getting down to it.

VOTE: freedom

[Herta]

Skitter why am I scummy as opposed to freedom?

[Herta]

vla thru 12/31

Optimism.

[Herta]

VOTE: ydrasse

[Herta]

I don’t like the Herta wagon. I think mathematically (will verify later as rush job) a scum has to be on it somewhere. I also don’t like how a majority of the game isn’t working with a Toto + IV or hell if super paranoid Toto town block.

It feels wrong.

So you think the team is one of {skitter30, KittyTacky, Firebringer, Val89, Ydrasse} and one of {freedom, Mathblade, Herta, innocentvillager}?

[Herta]

Or are you thinking both scums are in {skitter30, KittyTacky, Firebringer, Val89, Ydrasse} ?

[Herta]

Every time I start thinking Math is scum, I think of Firebringer's certainty that he's town and I dunno. Because I was thinking why couldn't it be skitter and Math. If I'm looking at the last VC that kind of makes sense, because why would both scum be on my wagon? But then ydra drops over to freedom after that vc, which doesn't seem scummy to me. By play and/or tone, skitter is the scummiest of everyone. Then Math & firebringer & val. Then ydra & freedom. Those are all tone reads I guess because no one has actually done anything outrageously scummy but skitter. I hate that I can't mechanically town IV, but he's town. And of course toto.

[Herta]

Every time I start thinking Math is scum, I think of Firebringer's certainty that he's town and I dunno. Because I was thinking why couldn't it be skitter and Math. If I'm looking at the last VC that kind of makes sense, because why would both scum be on my wagon? But then ydra drops over to freedom after that vc, which doesn't seem scummy to me. By play and/or tone, skitter is the scummiest of everyone. Then Math & firebringer & val. Then ydra & freedom. Those are all tone reads I guess because no one has actually done anything outrageously scummy but skitter. I hate that I can't mechanically town IV, but he's town. And of course toto.

I left kitty tacky out, which has happened a lot this game. I just don't think of KT when I'm thinking about this game, which is something or nothing I dunno. But KT has been town by meta I guess, null otherwise, including tone.

[Herta]

Both freedom and KT have been just bland to me.

[Herta]

Honestly makes me thing Kitty is actually town and you are whiteknighting them.

Well kitty _is_ town.

Herta what happened since here?

Nothing's really changed except no one seems to know what the fuck is going on, including me, so I'm more open to different possibities.

[Herta]

I think it's time to stop torturing yourselves, and us, and choose. We need 6 votes and 18 hours to collect them. I"m willing to vote anyone really except for myself. I don't know that killing one of the three of us gets anyone any closer to a solve, especially with a green flip, as it would be with me.

[Herta]

Skitter I feel like you answered everything except for the main question: why is Herta scum, other than Pooky’s supposed weird favoritism of him?

1. i don't think they're really solving
2. i feel like many of their votes are opportunistic and do not imply or bely a trajectory that i can follow
3. i don't know why this flip is like impossible to get if they're town here - why is it so hard to flip them ?
4. i think they look aligned with pooky

i can come up with reasons to townread a whole lot of other people but i'm still struggling here
and don't see a good reason to change my mind tbh

If you're town you're just confbiasing. You've been scum reading me since like page 3. None of those reasons existed at that point.

[Herta]

Is that 3 or 4?

[Herta]

I don't think it matters.

VOTE: Freedom

[Herta]

No skitter it's not me. I don't even think it's you anymore.

[Herta]

I think math should claim their night action before anyone else.

[Herta]

But I want to see firebringer's entrance first.

[Herta]

Well it's not out of math's scum range, but it does seem +town.

[Herta]

I don’t think there is a scum between Kitty and me but a scum between Kitty and Fire.

So you think fire is scum.

[Herta]

I think I've seen kitty over play a pr as town before but I can't remember where. And i guess if he's don't that he could certainly do a gambit as scum.

[Herta]

Val can u address this bit plz

The bit where pooky was offering up Sco + yourself + Unwnd as the team, all while Unwnd was expressing doubts on the town IV he had just saved, then Math reps in, starts softing all kinds of PRs and then settles on a doc claim who saved IV and who knows Pooky is scum while suddenly pooky decides, actually this new rep is absolutely town, all while they are been pushed, and then goes into anti-spew mode and self-hammers the next day?

I'm not sure what you think the issue is, really. The point of a N1 no kill was to enable a fake doc claim to go deep, and busing what is essentially a goon who is catching heat from the legit town you've cleared for the towncred seems perfectly in keeping with that plan.

Okay but math wasn't here for Night 1 so that means that unwnd or someone else was going to fake claim doc, but if that were true why would math, as replacement for unwnd, soft other PRs instead of just doc?

[Herta]

I guess the poe has shrunk. That's about it.

Fire what does killing me get you exactly. You meaning town.

I don't think sitter is Scum for reasons I was going on previously but she's just in the poe now.

I'd just lim ydra here.

VOTE: ydrasse

[Herta]

Skimming the game before I sleep, nothing stands out as exceptional enough to comment on yet. The townleans are fine for now.

This statement strikes me a bit as odd. There is nothing exceptional to comment on yet you are fine with waving through the townleans made so far? For 1,5 pages that's kind of exceptional imo. Feels like a statement for a statement's sake.

VOTE: Church

Is this a fake read or is it distancing?

[Herta]

Kitty faked a guilty on fire

No

[Herta]

Everyone was sheeping iv and toto. I'm the one who said we were running out of time to get something done. Would you rather we not eliminate anyone yesterday? I mean I fought against the freedom lim until it was apparent that was the only one that was going to go.

[Herta]

VOTE: Freedom

Fuck this game

VOTE: freedom

VOTE: Freedom

I don't think it matters.

VOTE: Freedom

Fuck, I'm fine with Freedom too if Herta isn't going anywhere.

VOTE: Freedom

All practically in the same page.

Prior to that I had voted from as an alternative to me only.

[Herta]

i think ydra has not been playing in the scum pt because she has not been involved.
Herta been picking kills is my theory of this game actually.

The subtext here is insulting.

[Herta]

The scum pt is going to scar me I think.

[Herta]

You're too cute to vote rn

[Herta]

I don't town read any of the posts including kt and I could vote any of you.

[Herta]

Your woofie pfp

[Herta]

Yeah I was insulted but I would have to find it to remember why

[Herta]

Of the prs? At this point no.

[Herta]

It doesn't seem there's much to say. We should just get on with it.

[Herta]

Oh nice.

[Herta]

Okay I laughed.

[Herta]

Is fire confirmed by anything more than play?

[Herta]

Really the simple answer is skitter.

But I guess other possibilities exist. Scum ydra townchecks scum skitter. That just seems messy. Made for this moment. But scum ydra townchecking town skiter, and scum fire townchecking town herta. That seems sexier. Also made for this moment. And much more worthy of scum in this game.