Mini Normal 2285: GM [game over]

[skitter30]

Hello all!

@data vla on fridays/saturdays
(And sporadically till the end of the holiday weekend as well)

VOTE: redcardinal

[skitter30]

VOTE: val
I like 19

@val why is the vote a scumclaim ?

[skitter30]

*i meant to write i like 20 >.>

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Plz see next post

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Did you not read the next post?

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@val why is the vote a scumclaim ?

Not the vote - the post. It is an attempt at a fake dumb tell. Are you trying to get a read on the author of post 6 from the RVS posting here?

I say it's fake rather than genuine, as KT seems to suggest, because of KTs vote/unvote. Scoliosis trying to draw 3 reads (and two scum ones at that) from the RVS shit posting that went on before post 20 screams 'try harding', but if you a seriously try harding, do you serious think KT moving their vote around is something less AI than two "Hi <vote>" posts, and not bother looking into that?

We know KT was shit posting because Toto is IC, but Scoliosis is trying to dumb tell they didn't notice and need to give a read on post 6 - its internally inconsistent.

I actually didnt notice the IC post until now.

I agree that all of scoliosis' conclusions are based on very little, but I think the fact that they *tried* to create content at this stage is very townie - it moves the game out of RVS, and I find that very +town

I don't think the conclusions are meant to be very *firm* or like taken as fact, but rather trying to move the game along by throwing out *some* sort of statement and seeing what happens

That being said, i like this post from you
VOTE: herta

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Nah there's no sane reason to over-analyze this unless you're tryharding yourself.

What do you think of my vote on you?

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My Scoliosis townread is kinda eroding ngl. The last 2 posts just seem to be looking to be made to start an early push (it's 2 pages in) on pretty flimsy reasoning.

Scoliosis is obviously town and i'm starting to scumread you

[skitter30]

How did you guys miss the IC post it was right there

I didn't see it
And hello! Been a while

[skitter30]

I dont get, or like, the church wagon
I think we should be wagoning herta or kittytacky

[skitter30]

That's all I got

If you make a statement like 'by meta i don't think kitty's scum', i would expect you to be able to elaborate a bit more on it

Why did you say that you don't think he's scum?

[skitter30]

How did you guys miss the IC post it was right there

I didn't see it
And hello! Been a while

Hello how’s your foot? Mines still fucked

Oh dear >.> i'm sorry to hear that
mine was p painful to walk on for a few months but has been all healed for a while now

[skitter30]

Trying to create content in RVS counts as obviously town? Man I gotta try that next time

Yes, i think that's very townie
+ you can tell he's thinking abt the game and trying to understand how other people are trying to solve it (or not)

Do you think he's scummy or just don't particularly believe he's townie ?

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@herta i was going to ask the exact question but i continued reading and saw toto did and didnt see a point in asking it twice

But when you didnt really explain when toto asked you (71) i decided to ask 74

Usually when someone says something like 'i don't think x is scum by meya' i expect them to (be able to) follow up that statement with a sentence or two of an explanation explaining their reasoning and how they got to that conclusion

You've made the claim, the onus is on you to back it up, not on me to start reading old kitty games

I don't have any particular reason to disbelieve that statement, but i don't have any reason to believe it either, and i want to know why you made it

And i asked cuz i was curious if you had any thoughts on it

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Can't tell if I'm just confbiased because I want to believe I've made any remote progress in my reads though. I feel like regardless of your alignment Scoliosis is +town here though.

Indeed
They're one of the only townreads i've got so far

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Every game I've played with kitty that he's been reasonably engaged and stick-to-his-guns as in going deep on a hunch and apparent genuine curiosity he's been town.

Ig i'm not sure how you can tell he's displaying these traits at this point
Why weren't you willing to answer this question before?

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Why did you ask me what I thought of you voting me? I haven't seen a follow-up to that yet and it seemed kinda important to you at the time?

When you can.

Usually people have some sort of response when they get voted, and you didn't
Was trying to see how you'd react as well

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Trying to create content in RVS counts as obviously town? Man I gotta try that next time

Yes, i think that's very townie
+ you can tell he's thinking abt the game and trying to understand how other people are trying to solve it (or not)

Do you think he's scummy or just don't particularly believe he's townie ?

I just felt like on a re-read his arguments felt like bad faith pushes.

Fairly easy to fake this "towntell" as scum imo.

What makes them badfaith?
And a few people indicated that they hadn't seen the ic post, including myself. Are all of them scummy? If not, why is scoliosis?

[skitter30]

I dont get, or like, the church wagon
I think we should be wagoning herta or kittytacky

Naughty point. Didn't like your stream of posts

VOTE: skitter30

Would love to hear more abt both of these

[skitter30]

I dont get, or like, the church wagon
I think we should be wagoning herta or kittytacky

Can you expand on this?

Idk why people think church is scummy
I think herta is scummy
I don't like kittytacky's scoliosis push - i don't get how he lost the initial townread so fast, especially since it partially seems based on scoliosis 'not ressponding to kittytacky's question' when he hasnt posted at all since 20, it's not like scoliosis is avoiding kittytacky in particular

Like ig i'm kinda confused how kittytacky can start off liking 20 and then move to disliking it when other people find it scummy without scoliosis posting anything in between

[skitter30]

Also hello skitter/dann/IV

Heya unwnd, been a minute

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Could you give a contrast between Herta/Church? I think their posting style is actually similar

I ... am not even sure how to approach this fully as i don't think they're similar at all

Herta - i felt a lot of fluffiness/wishy-washyness/agreeing-to-agree in early posts like 33, 34, 35, bandwagon-y church vote, statements that they didn't seen willing (or able) to back up (like the kitty townread off of meta), and the whole 'i don't want to answer these questions' thing

Church - thought 40 was fine, don't love that they've mostly interacted with their wagon thus far and want to see what their content looks like when they come back

Pedit oh dear i hope you find it >.>
Can you explain 137 again plz? Why did you not want to answer the question because you were in a 1v1, and how does him being ic change that?

[skitter30]

Re: Church I don’t feel the interacting with people on wagon part is scummy. If I’m being attacked my instinct is to fight back and interact with the people who are interacting with me. Why is it scummy?

Seems kinda self-centered, i.e. only focusing on the things in the game that are abt them, and nothing else (i.e. like scumhunting)

It doesnt make them scum, but is worth calling out

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I don't think her gripes were tone-related at all?

Trying to create content in RVS counts as obviously town? Man I gotta try that next time

Yes, i think that's very townie
+ you can tell he's thinking abt the game and trying to understand how other people are trying to solve it (or not)

Do you think he's scummy or just don't particularly believe he's townie ?

I just felt like on a re-read his arguments felt like bad faith pushes.

Fairly easy to fake this "towntell" as scum imo.

What makes them badfaith?
And a few people indicated that they hadn't seen the ic post, including myself. Are all of them scummy? If not, why is scoliosis?

1. The val push is unexplained and they ignored my question completely, imo they made it up.
2. Scoliosis clearly at least tried to look like they paid attention-- if they were actually tryharding as town they'd have noticed the post.

1. They didnt post again at all tho, why are u treating that like they were ignoring you?
2. I feel like it was easy to miss and you're applying an arbitraty standard fo scoliosis that you aren't applying to other players

[skitter30]

It's early. The game is easy to re-evaluate. I re-read things and come to new conclusions about posts. Also being frozen is a thing.

I think it's kinda weird to come to a totally different conclusion abt the same post at that point in the game when the pkayer in question hadnt posted anything at all in between

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I think Herta is town

This ia an interesting take, what am i missing

Also not sure abt unwnd, i thought him questioning me abt church/herta was a little weird but otherwise i'm a resounding null on him rn

[skitter30]

the crux of my read on my meow meow is that 116 is an insanely funny post like unwnd is managing the mafia leaderboards

Oh hi ydra!
You feel a lot less stilted than the church version tbh

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The game seemed in stasis so I thought with a strong leading impression it would motivate others to converse

Oh hey this is what i was trying to do

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nope

85 i mean

I thought the aggro was a very odd escalation given the question i had asked

[skitter30]

Feel hesitant on liking skitter in the same way Id have hesitance on Ydra

Skitter is especially good at aligning herself with best interests but secretly playing for the other team

I feel my read in that regard will be decided by flips

What does this mean in the context of this game?

[skitter30]

I like ydra and dann
Still good with my herta vote but if i'm going wildly wrong somewhere someone plz enlighten me

[skitter30]

I think it’s fine if you’re actually getting wagoned

The way you phrased it made it seemed like you were throwing shade in a scummy way not a “townies should act better” way

Not meant to be shade, more - i don't see why we're wagoning the slot, this is the one thing i don't like but that isn't enuf to call them scummy imo if that makes sense

[skitter30]

Your posts (to me) don't really seem telling as they're just pretty standard? You do things I'd expect, but I've seen games like that one where you really just fooled the fucking pants off everyone like your plant hydra

Just exercising caution

Fair enuf

[skitter30]

I don't think i'm readable at this point

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This has been objectively wrong on each occasion you've said it previously; and it remains wrong; but just to be clear - you are claiming you posted these in the belief that Scoliosis hasn't posted anyone of consequence since #20; and the "obviously town" read you gave yesterday was based entirely on post 20, and you didn't see that was the source of the church wagon you said you disliked?

I can think he's town without supporting his wagon
What's 'objectively wrong' ?

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I ... don't know what i was thinking, i read all of those posts but for some reason thought 41 42 happened right after 20 and before 24

I think i had iso'd both and somehow conflated post numbers, but that's my bad

I feel better abt kitty then

[skitter30]

I thought you hadn't seen it; and your "obviously town" read was even more overblown then I originally thought it was, and you were handing those reads out without even paying attention to even a limited ISO; or you had seen it and were pushing on KT in bad faith. I don't know what I am supposed to make of your answer that you did see it but have made some sort of error as to the order it was posted.

I understand in general how a desire to generate content can be townie, but I am struggling to see how #20 can result from a genuine thought process. Scoliosis tells me they hope to answer those questions today (although I would have preferred them just be answered rather than told they will) and I'll see if I can get there; but if you think I am missing some obvious and want to posit why #17 and/or #19 could (at least initially) draw a scumread that doesn't equally apply to #7 or #12; or why (assuming your hypothesis about the IC being easy to miss is correct) there is anything different about the lack of vote in #6 with #8 or #18, I am listening.

Scoliosis is the only one who can tell us in the end, but I would feel a lot better about you if you could convince me at least some thought has gone into that content rather than declaring someone "obviously town" on the basis they posted something without stopping to see if that something makes sense.

I liked 20, 41, 42, and they were very good posts for that stage of the game.
20- i liked that they were trying to find scum so early, and were not content to let the game remain in RVS (i give a *lot* of townpoints for that). They could have very easily continued with rvs, but their posts belies a motivation to try to start finding scum. The post is approaching the game from the pov that random voting based on a jokey-y vibe without trying to assess prior more 'content'-y posts are scummy. He's voted someone who made a rvs vote based on Wales, and called out another post that he felt suffered from the same problem (testarossa's sneeze post), and explained why he was not applying the same standard to a third (toto's). This isnt the epitome of scumminess, but he felt it was *scummy enough* to vote for at that point

I don't know why he didnt mention my 7 or kittytacky's slew of posts, or 13, but i see why 17 and 19 are grouped together. The post is written from a coherent, fairly nuanced, pov given the fact that we were literally on post 20, and was trying to move the game along. It's a town post. I don't think neglecting to mention 7 or 13 means he's being arbitrary, i'm assuming there's some reason he had for considering them to be in a different category

In 41/42, he found a more serious sr that he chose to pursue and push instead

20 is a great post for that stage of the game, which i said back in 36. Do i give it the same weight now? No. But for post 20, it was quite good

And i had a brainfart wrt whether or not they had seen/responded to kitty's question (i thought kitty's question was later for some reason), that's different than 'not even paying attention' or 'acting on bad faith', and doesn't have much to do with the basis of my scoliosis read at all (should it affect my kitty read? sure, and i addressed that already)

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I mean, the very fact you consider yourself to be unreadable at this point but considered Scoliosis to be not only readable, but obviously of one alignment is enough to give me serious pause about the genuineness of that read.

Double that when you ask me to believe you were actually trying to sort Kitty but failed to catch your own error.

And what does me being unreadable have anything to do with scoliosis's readability, we're very different players. Why should i be applying the same metric to both?

[skitter30]

Val is your argument for scoliosis-scum that 20 contains fake reads in an attempt to seem try-hard-y, and that it's fake for failing to look at other parts of the game that you consider more AI, and for not applying thr same standard to every rvs post?

[skitter30]

*to every earlier rvs post?

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It's as if post 20 is authored by two separate personas - the townie careful scum hunter wanting to move the game out of RVS; analysing the early posting carefully, latching on to a tiny scum ping and getting it out there to move the game forwards (and if that ended there, I would agree with you) and must have had a reason for categorising 17 and 19 differently from 7 or 13 that's so stuble and nuanced even you can't grasp it; but then there is also the second persona that derps over the IC, both the initial announcement and failing to notice the significance of KTs unvote/revote. There were other examples of people posting and not voting - both before and after Toto (Flippy, and geraintm)

But i don't think that these are in conflict at all tho

I think you're expecting too much out of a post20 post, and i think it's quite reasonable (and good) for ehat we had at the time

Like you're attributing a scummy motivation to something that i think boils down to - he missed the ic post, and found 17/19 more noteworthy to comment on than 7/13
Like you're expectations for what he *should* have been doing at that post are unreasonable imo

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I don't think I'm made a secret of what my problem with it is. Fake-reads, or more likely a fake-dumbtell with respect to Toto. We STILL don't have an answer as to if they did or did not realise Toto was IC at the point of posting #20. You say that it's easily missed, because you missed it, but I don't buy someone making a try-hardy post misses that, particularly when that slew of KT posts that were ignored specifically drew attention to Toto as IC. Maybe I can see someone not engaging enough to see the IC announcement also skimming through the early KT posts and not seeing the significance of that - but I don't see the same person being responsible for a "coherent, fairly nuanced" post belying a motivation to try and start finding scum also makes that mistake. You are correct in that I am applying a different standard to Sco, but I think there is more than enough justification for doing so.

I also don't think it's immediately obvious at all what kitty was getting at with that vote/unvote, i only got it after rereading the opening series of posts like 4 times

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The @data explanation in skitter's post isn't something I've seen scum post before on page 1. My feeling now with the benefit of hindsight is that skitter's choice to include it was nai and that without the @data part of their post, they posted exactly what I was looking for in 20. However, I don't regret overlooking that the first time, because I was trying to push the posts only which I've actually seen coming from scum. I do regret missing that toto is an ic, because I have actually seen scum vote the ic before as a joke on page 1.

Fwiw it is indeed nai, my first post in basically every game is along those lines, i mention the vla thing right away each game

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Also i think 280 backs up my impression of 20

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I don't believe that any of the posts between skitter or KittyTacky are genuine from either side. I feel like skitter seems to be throwing reads around at random unless they are talking about KittyTacky, and with KittyTacky I feel like they are very precise about pointing out what exactly is wrong with his posts, yet there is a lack of meaningful aggression towards him.

Does ur scumread of me basically boil down to thinking i'm svs with kitty?
Am i still scum in a town-kitty world?

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Oh this has become a vibes game i see
Heya pooky

[skitter30]

this is where my reads are after full reread:

town:
ydra, iv, herta, freedom, unwnd, skitter, toto

neutral:
val, gera, kt

scum:
scol, dann


i'm willing to kill scol or dann today what do you think

VOTE: dannflor

look at him instead of engaging with my readlist and telling me what he agrees with or doesn't agree with he's there just sitting on the floor rocking back and forth hugging his knees mumbling gibberish

Bad takes

[skitter30]

hi skitts <3 no paranoia pls i towb this time

>.>

ok what do u disagree with

Uh most of your takes, and especially both of your scumreads

[skitter30]

Also UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

0 real time sorting/engagement to sort

lots of declarative statements dressed up to look fancier than they actually are

low desire to really be in the thread and talk out reads with the people he is "townreading"

Not being here in realtime is not a scumtell ...

[skitter30]

Unless you have reason to believe he is purposefully stunting his realtime inthread interactions, that's an availability-indicative thing, not an ai-indicative thing

[skitter30]

0 real time sorting/engagement to sort

lots of declarative statements dressed up to look fancier than they actually are

low desire to really be in the thread and talk out reads with the people he is "townreading"

Not being here in realtime is not a scumtell ...

this game started a week ago do you see him trying to have a conversation with anyone at any point about anything

That's not the sort of player he is, above post case in point

[skitter30]

Unwnd's scol vote is a little icky

[skitter30]

this is where my reads are after full reread:

town:
ydra, iv, herta, freedom, unwnd, skitter, toto

neutral:
val, gera, kt

scum:
scol, dann


i'm willing to kill scol or dann today what do you think

VOTE: dannflor

I think scol ia town
Dann is null and it's wild that you're voting him
Why are you townreading all of:me, herta, freedom, and unwnd

[skitter30]

The fact that you aren't voting pooky and are leaving your vote at nl makes me suspicious you are preparing for a read flip if you see my wagon becomes popular. I'm expecting scum skitter to continue to hedge their reads for a while so they have the option of pretending to flip their read on me if it becomes clear that scum need my wagon to go through today.

There is literally nothing in my iso that indicates that i have any desire or inclination to vote you, like half of my iso is indicating the exact opposite

[skitter30]

Ok, scoliosis are you an alt or gimmick player? Are you new? Do you have experience playing forum mafia?

[skitter30]

Fwiw i'm reading them as experienced in mafia but new to ms and is used to a different site meta (and/or possibly an irl player new to forum mafia)

[skitter30]

Ok that is very different than what i was thinking

[skitter30]

Fwiw i'm reading them as experienced in mafia but new to ms and is used to a different site meta (and/or possibly an irl player new to forum mafia)

Ok can you at least comfirm or deny this theory?

[skitter30]

Man playing without meta the one time was really really nice >.>

[skitter30]

I actually disliked that interaction the other way
Either way i still don't think scoliosis is scum here

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I feel like you let yourself get talked into that vote a little too easily @unwnd

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herta is very stilted as mafia, he doesn't really flow into the thread, it's like the guy at the party who has a drink in his hand but isn't involved in any of the conversations.

freedom is town because when he's scum, his questions are agenda-y and you can sort of see where he's trying to push something - here he's just kind of asking random things and popping in to say things.

unwnd is town because his play is completely perpendicular to his scum play - it is unstructured and freeflowing in a way that I don't think he really enjoys doing in general and especially as scum because chaos is the enemy of making plans.

I would say your description of scum-herta is p much exactly how they're playing this game, so

Don'r really have an opinion on freedom

I don't know if i agree with your unwnd meta either tbh

For me - fair enuf, that is probably a good way to read me

[skitter30]

I feel like you let yourself get talked into that vote a little too easily @unwnd

@unwnd

[skitter30]

Pooky swoops in and takes over

VOTE: scoliosis

This is a p gross vote

[skitter30]

One thing this does remind me of is that I refrained from saying last night that I think geraintm is more likely to be scum if skitter ends up being town.

I think gerantim looks p bad here irregardless of my alignment

[skitter30]

My suggestion if you hammer me is to vote out pooky next because I think they are most likely to be scum.

Don't think this comes from scum ^

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In general there's just a lot of posts that ask questions but never get followed up on, or lots of posts that try to portray some sort of background thought process like "something to note for now" or "there's something else I'm waiting for and need to sit on"

Yes this is exactly why i find them scummy. There's a lot of pop-waffle-y posts with vague opinions that get walk-backed, like within the same post sometimes or as soon as someone disagrees. Their opinions in their rearly posts are getting qualified within the post itself, and as soon as i pushed back on their scumread of me, they dropped the aggro-ness

The tone of 85 made no sense as a response to the question that i asked

There's no progression, or scumhunting. Just statments abt things that aren't material ('pooky taking over the game')

I unvoted cuz i was sitting on the vote for days but it didnt really seem.to be going anywhere so

VOTE: herta

[skitter30]

Why can’t it be s+s or

why can’t pooky be wrong town and unwnd scum pretending to be convinced?

This

[skitter30]

your takes this game feel like the lack the kind of depth and precision I'd expect from you if you're town -

He said he was sick, basically your whole post can be explained by how he was feeling in thr last few days

(Also feel better dann!!)

[skitter30]

Like how the hell you dont think unwnd is naive and gullible and not scum trying to get you killed is beyond me.

I could ask you the same question about pookythebear. The difference is this:

No no I'm fine with playing this out actually and like your perspective (of all fucking things)

VOTE: Scolosis

hyyyyyype

VOTE: scol

It was pookythebear's vote who created the flashwagon, not unwnd. Pookythebear didn't vote me until he saw that unwnd was doing it first. I feel like you fail to understand the significance of this, toto.

They had spent the prior like 10 posts mutually moving towards voting you. I think reading through that sequence is more important than who actually placed tbe vote first, as it explains the leadup/motivations of the vote

They voted within a minute of each other, and i would actuallu characterize this sequence of posts as unwnd following pooky's lead on the wagon, even if unwnd technically voted first

I don't think we can rule out either svs or svt the other way here from that sequence at all.

[skitter30]

If the wagon were to go through on me, unwnd and KT would look worse than Pookythebear, because they were the ones who voted first. The fact that pookythebear waited to switch his vote onto me until after he saw unwnd vote me is a sign that pookythebear knows I will flip town and unwnd doesn't know I will flip town. Also, it's significant in a game of this size for a wagon to move from 2 to 3 votes and this is something that I expect scum to be more prepared to take advantage of than town.

I think the third vote is usually considered the scummy one for getting rhe wagon going, no?

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I know this back-and-forth doesn't need my input but I'm not sure if pooky buries himself on a mislim on you, scol?

Maybe pooks disrespects me that much that he thinks I wouldn't immediately throw his thread credibility out of the window if you're town

Why wouldn't he as scum?
Why would he be throwing his credibility out of the window?

[skitter30]

And it's not just cause he has a scumread, it's just the way he's gone about it. The position he finds himself in. It's not like his slot was being closed in on. This thread had little direction until Pooky came in. T[/b]hat is honestly rare form from him, especially considering the circumstances. I really would like you to debate the prospect of why scum would behave this way. This isn't D4 where Pooky needs to secure a mislim (or get himself out of a bad spot), it's D1 where we know fuck all.

The game was moving towards a scoliosis wagon before pooky repped in, he just accelerated it

[skitter30]

Your immediate response to two or three votes (four counting IC) was pretty much 'oh well town sux you know my reads peace'.

The only reason I unvoted is my unfinished business with Herta and me trying to decide how I feel about your egotism

Are you even town unwnd, or am I just completely off track with you? You've made several awful posts in a row which I could swear look like you're scum egging on Pookythebear and I.

I don't think he's town and i think he's letting pooky lead his pushes rn

[skitter30]

Shut the fuck up Flavor Leaf

Alt outting should be a crime.

Wait really
...

If true this actually changes my read quite a bit
(Also unwnd u shouldnf have said that)

[skitter30]

Fwiw i'm reading them as experienced in mafia but new to ms and is used to a different site meta (and/or possibly an irl player new to forum mafia)

Yeah maybe this is the issue, like the way they interact with everyone is just... huh?

Well not anymore apparently, now he's just resoundingly null

[skitter30]

The most significant post created over the last 24 hours was 572. In the grand scheme of things that's what I care about.

It was a p bad post indeed

[skitter30]

I'm having a super busy couple of days, i'll be around later tonight >.>
I'm p sure gera is like the epitome of a LHF flip, why are we wagoning him exactly?

[skitter30]

No meta experience at all but i don't really thing what they're doing is inherently scummy, just not *helpful* per se, which isn't the same thing

In contrast, herta is popping in to make inane comments, is being very wishy-washy on their stances and positions, ans is making rather oppurtunistic votes

I admit that i only vaguely skimmed since i was here last but, uh, why are you even voting him? From your iso looks like you're not really convinced his behavior is scum-indicative either

[skitter30]

re Herta what opportunistic votes? i don’t feel like wishy-washy is a really a scumtell either especially since I do it a lot

Their scol 'this is e1 or e2' vote
And it's more than just wishy-washy - they walk back their own stances p immediately, sometimes even in the same post
It's that they don't have any consistent set of convictions or pov about their approach to the game

[skitter30]

the last game I played with gerain was a large normal datisi setup

he basically did no solving and lurked all the way to the end and just twiddled his thumbs while the town ate each other for lol reasons.

I have no desire to repeat the experience if he's not going to put in effort and become readable/try.

A very cursory look at the opening posts of that game - he actually seems to have been putting in more effort there than here

[skitter30]

the inane comments thing also applies to geraint/basically everyone who has shitposted at any point so I don’t really see how that’s unique to herta

They don't have a lot of more serious content to even out their posting

[skitter30]

Hot take if pooky is scum skitter is probably scum with him

That would be glorious :)

I'm gonna try to catch up more thoroughlu later tonight but realistically it might be saturday >.>
Idk if people want to wait that long

[skitter30]

the inane comments thing also applies to geraint/basically everyone who has shitposted at any point so I don’t really see how that’s unique to herta

They don't have a lot of more serious content to even out their posting

What on earth are you even talking about?

For example, why is this the only thing you chose to respond to?

[skitter30]

i be around tomorrow feeling nasty

Feel better!

[skitter30]

I don't especially think gerantium is scum tbh, i think there are better flips today

I think he's trying p hard to get his pov across in the last page and explain why he *isn't* scum and why this isnt his scumgame, in a bit of a self-righteous kinda way that i don't think usually comes from scum

Also everyone is at worst just kinda fine with this - nobody really has a problem with this going through. Is he getting bussed here? Like what are scum doing rn ?

[skitter30]

I like kitty on thr last page
Can we wagon herta again plz >.>

[skitter30]

I refuse to vote Gera rn, he has consistently shown to play like this as town D1 and I don't do policy lims. He always gets run up for shit takes like clockwork. Get Scol instead.

I am aware I look very bad if the coin flips tails and gera is actually scum, I just think what he's been doing is completely NAI because he thinks D1 is irrelevant.

This is gonna sound weird cuz i'm quoting these posts, but no
I like the fact that he's taking a hard stance here and showing that he *knows* how this'll look if gera is bad, yet defending him anyway
It's more abt the conviction in his stance than what the stance actually is if that makes sense

[skitter30]

I am worried that you are not at least showing a little bit of urgency in your elimination

I kinda think he was showing urgency *for him* in some.of his posting yesterday. I think *for him* he's actually trying p hard to defend himself

A lot of his posting has this vibe of incredulity that people don't recognize that this is lightyeard away from his scumgame - this is the approach he's taking to try to not get flipped

[skitter30]

Like he's going into 'i don't want to get flipped, and i can't believe they're flipping me here' mode, and that's manifesting as disbelief thay people actually think he could be town here

[skitter30]

*think he could be scum here

[skitter30]

being useless is literally his default go to approach to the game at every day and i literally just lost a game to him playing the exact same way

Idk i havent played with him before
I still don't think he's scum here

[skitter30]

i remain wholly unconvinced by your herta push but I am willing to switch just for you if you ask nicely because I am trying to be a nicer person. how much confidence do you actually have that he flips mafia here

Not 100% sure but i think it's a lot more likely than scum-scol or scum-ger rn tbh

[skitter30]

I am worried that you are not at least showing a little bit of urgency in your elimination

I kinda think he was showing urgency *for him* in some.of his posting yesterday. I think *for him* he's actually trying p hard to defend himself

A lot of his posting has this vibe of incredulity that people don't recognize that this is lightyeard away from his scumgame - this is the approach he's taking to try to not get flipped

Do I have zero reading comprehension my impression was that he is just saying his behavior is completely NaI

Posts like these have that sort of 'incredulous' vibe

Spoiler:

also, i think i am a bad scum player - i get way too skittish and panicky as the game goes along and i think i am very easy to spot compared to being town. i don't think i am ever a good idea for an early kill, i think i am easily solvable as the game progresses.

VOTE: geraintm

I've decided I like my pookythebear/herta/geraintm solve the most, and I prefer this wagon because I feel reasonably confident geraintm is scum and it gives more time to figure out the other slots.

can you elaborate on how/why you are reasonably confident on geraintm

it is day 1, there is no way anyone can get a read on me, just isn't possible. and certainly at the point they claimed they were certain i was scum - i had what - 8 posts and halfof those were random votes stuff?

also his "i become readable over time" is kind of bullshit since he literally won at endgame viewtopic.php?p=13483106#p13483106

by barely playing the entire game.

I am 90% sure if people take time to look at my posts over a game I can easily be spotted as scum. I know my posts (and votes) are different as scum and I can't help it.
I have zero idea why people struggle to spot me as scum.

There is no way I should ever be allowed to get to an end game any more without being checked, last game I begged and begged for people to look over me early doors so I wouldn't be a problem later.

[skitter30]

You don’t think this could mean Kitty is scum and gera is town…?

Ok if kitty is scum
Amd gera is town

Why does kitty make 892, or even pursue this stance at all if it looks like gera is close to getting flipped and he knows he'll look bad afterwards

?

[skitter30]

My new scumteam is like Dannflor KittyTacky Herta (???)

Wait what?
How do dannflor/kitty work with herta

Why is dannflor switching between gera/scol, he shouldnt care if he's scum

And also why does kitty care so much abt whether or not we flip gera?

[skitter30]

VOTE: Scoliosis

E-2

Quick reminder that we might want to wait for Toto before going E-1 in case of quick hammer shenanigans.

VOTE: scoliosis

Back to wanting this or herta

Still want hera more ^

[skitter30]

what is your stance on scoliosis rnow skitter

Still probably town
Don't want to end the day there

[skitter30]

My new scumteam is like Dannflor KittyTacky Herta (???)

Wait what?
How do dannflor/kitty work with herta

Why is dannflor switching between gera/scol, he shouldnt care if he's scum

And also why does kitty care so much abt whether or not we flip gera?

Posturing for Dann because exactly because he doesn’t care who flips

Whiteknighting for Kitty/maybe he felt locked into this read for whatever reason so just wants towncred idk

At that point it seemed reasonably likely gera was going through

Not saying I have any remote confidence in any of these scum but it’s just a gut shot

I mean yeah in my mind this is starting to get a little stretch-y as motivation for them to be scum

[skitter30]

You don’t think this could mean Kitty is scum and gera is town…?

Ok if kitty is scum
Amd gera is town

Why does kitty make 892, or even pursue this stance at all if it looks like gera is close to getting flipped and he knows he'll look bad afterwards

?

Why would he look bad after defending a greenflip..?

He said he knew he would look bad IF geraint flipped scum which in thsi hypothetical scenario geraint doesn’t flip scum

Ahhhhhh this is what i get for reading/typing up fast at work >.>
Agree with you that this doesn't rule out scum-kitty/towm-gera, but idk why scum-kitty is stretching out his neck here for town-gera

[skitter30]

I'm kinda scumreading unwnd ...

[skitter30]

I don't remember offhand but i v much dislike the last like three pages from you

[skitter30]

You're actively egging on ydra to hammer here

[skitter30]

Fair enuf
Still think it's scummy of you to egg this on, especially without a claim, when you know that ydra might well do it ...

[skitter30]

I mean yeah it's a possible explanation, my point is that neither of those are particularly likely imo, so having a solve of all 3 doesn't seem right to me

[skitter30]

Ydra actually doing it is the punchline

Sure, and there's a lot of scum motivation for setting up that joke, no?

[skitter30]

That's fair but i'm explaining why i don't think that world is particularly likely

[skitter30]

I'm not a chaotic scum I'm more a 'web of deceit' scum

That was actually directed at iv, not you @unwnd

I do think that egging on a hammer is at best anti-town even if it would be fun, and would be certainly be furthering scum-wincon in the event that scol is town

Whether or not you think it's fun or claim it's out of the scope of your meta it's not townie

[skitter30]

If Gera is town he will become smarter come D2.

I refuse to vote Gera rn, he has consistently shown to play like this as town D1 and I don't do policy lims. He always gets run up for shit takes like clockwork. Get Scol instead.

Posts like these

[skitter30]

Kitty is defending gera, the question is whether that's coming from scum-kitty or town-kitty

[skitter30]

VOTE: unwnd

[skitter30]

I'm not a chaotic scum I'm more a 'web of deceit' scum

That was actually directed at iv, not you @unwnd

I do think that egging on a hammer is at best anti-town even if it would be fun, and would be certainly be furthering scum-wincon in the event that scol is town

Whether or not you think it's fun or claim it's out of the scope of your meta it's not townie

K and what if scol is scum? I guess just bussing right :roll:

I don't think he's scum, and even if *you* think he's scum encouraging hammer without claim is anti-town at best and you know better, esp. toto said he wants say something before hammer, esp. since you know there's a very decent chance ydra will take you up on it

I agree that in the scok-scum world it is unlikely you are scum with him. In the scol-town world this is quite bad imo

[skitter30]

Hello i'm around
I had surgery two days ago so i've been a little out of it >.>

[skitter30]

geraintm [7]: Scoliosis, Toto, Freedom, Herta, innocentvillager, Val89, PookyTheMagicalBear [HAMMER]
Scoliosis [4]: KittyTacky, Dannflor, unwnd, Ydrasse
Herta [1]: geraintm
unwnd [1]: skitter30

I think there's most likely two scum on and one scum off here
Would have been criminally easy for scum to be on gera there

[skitter30]

Toto is alive and geraint obviously flipped tonw

I'm another one questioning my read on IV. I'm still fine with that flip, and I have no problem with IV deciding to policy that, but the continued characterisation of that being an "obviously town" flip has me wondering. It was not obvious to me, at all, and that means either IV has a much, much better grasp of mafia that I do, or it's much more obvious when you have a pre-knowledge of gera's alignment, and that's bleeding in to these sort of posts.

It's not something that tanks the whole read for me, since Dunning–Kruger is a thing and it might be the case IV is just better at mafia...but I don't think I'm that bad at mafia, either.

I think iv is one of the towniesr players in the game rn and i really, really don't think scum take the stance of trying to flip their biggest townread on policy
It's just a wild stance to take and has a very high chance of blowing up in their faces and causing a lot of suspicion later down the line. Scum don't really take a position like rhat normally

(Also my prior tr on val is kinda evaporating)

[skitter30]

resetting all my reads

these are off the table for me today:

Toto, IV, KittyTacky.

I want to know what Dannflor/Ydrasse/Skitter want to kill

Agreed with rhese townreads
I still want to kill herta

[skitter30]

The main thing that stops me from wanting Scol is just how absolutely dead the gamestate was at EOD. gera was likely to go through but not at all certain. If Scol was scum I would've expected more activity/more urgency from both Scol and his team to move towards gera.

Agreed

[skitter30]

if anything I'd actually expect Scol's teammates to be on Scol's wagon because it

looks better

in post analysis? If we flip them both and Scol is S and Gera T then the natural push targets on D3 would be the Gera wagon.

Conversely if Scol does go through on D1 - there's no reason why Gera wouldn't be following him on D2 with the way he refused to vote for Scol.

I still don't really think scoli is scum tbh

[skitter30]

BTW Scol's unexplained turnaround of me smells of scum trying to eliminate a threat.

I mean it isnt really unexplained, he thinks i'm scum and has been harping on you as a potential partner on me for a while

Also i'm not sure he views you as a threat either

[skitter30]

I'd ask for a reads list from skitter, kt and pooky, but I don't think skitter and kt will bother to fake one and I already know scum pooky can make one up at will.

K but why?

Herta why are you scum reading skitter again?

I do think skitter has scum equity. When town she's fairly generous in her analysis and looks at things from a more open point of view. Here I'm finding her not doing that so much. It's like she's picking at little things maybe that I don't think she usually does.

It's pretty much her treatment of me. Her close mindedness just gotten worse as the game has progressed. Typically she is able to at least see what I'm seeing even if she doesn't agree with it.

Have i ever even played with you before? What is this based on?

Also, no, i can't really tell (ot thus even agree) with what you're seeing, other than the fact that you apparently sr me now i've no idea what you're thinking abt anything

[skitter30]

I'd ask for a reads list from skitter, kt and pooky, but I don't think skitter and kt will bother to fake one and I already know scum pooky can make one up at will.

Toto
Iv, kitty
Ydra, scol
freedom
Dan, val
Pooky, unwnd (but not together)
Herta

[skitter30]

VOTE: herta

[skitter30]

if anything I'd actually expect Scol's teammates to be on Scol's wagon because it

looks better

in post analysis? If we flip them both and Scol is S and Gera T then the natural push targets on D3 would be the Gera wagon.

Conversely if Scol does go through on D1 - there's no reason why Gera wouldn't be following him on D2 with the way he refused to vote for Scol.

I still don't really think scoli is scum tbh

I would be interested in anything you can give on Scol (when you feel recovered) given that he is the Most Popular Wagon.

I dont think he's flipping scum
He's too disconnected from the rest of the game and too many people want to flip him. Who are his partners even?

[skitter30]

I semi vibed with the “Val’s random scumread on me feels a bit stilted” but maybe it’s just because he thinks so radically differently from me so I’m willing to chalk the ping off aa a mere playstyle diff

I feel like he's reaching a little too much

[skitter30]

The main thing that stops me from wanting Scol is just how absolutely dead the gamestate was at EOD. gera was likely to go through but not at all certain. If Scol was scum I would've expected more activity/more urgency from both Scol and his team to move towards gera.

Agreed

Again, why would he be urgent if a townie essentially jumped onto the gallows and hanged himself? He was in no danger as long as gera didn't claim and kept being stubborn.

A little earlier on, before the whole not claim thing, it wasnf obvious who was going to get flipped and nobody was particularly trying to save scoli

[skitter30]

I dont really associate reaching with town at all

[skitter30]

I really can't imagine making my entire game as scum here abt trying to defend the guy that is p obviously gonna get flipped at some point

Why is scum-me doing that again?

I still think unwnd is scummy but he doesnt make sense as a scoli partner imo, he jumped on that wagon eay too fast when pooky repped in

[skitter30]

vote count 1.13

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-12-06 00:45:52).

yeet

Scoliosis [6]:

KittyTacky,

Toto

, Herta, Dannflor, Val89, unwnd

geraintm [3]:

Scoliosis, Freedom, PookyTheMagicalBear

Herta [2]:

geraintm, skitter30

not voting [2]:

Ydrasse, innocentvillager

mod notes

~ this is a mod note

flavour

I think at this point it was p solidly leaning towards scoli, and it switched towards gera in the next page when toto switched and a bunch of people followed

And then gera sealed it when he refused to claim

Scum couldnt have instigated the switch as toto originated that. Freedom and herta followed, and i still think thay herta is scummy

[skitter30]

do you think Scoli’s recent behavior has been townie/not scummy

I think most of his day2 posting is nai and 'i'm going to get flipped soon anyways so why am i even talking to you guys'

Which isnf like helpful but doesnt make him scum

Idk Pooky and Scol both feel kind of scummy today, Scol’s scumminess sort of started yesterday

I kinda doubt it’s SvS though? I mean maybe? But unlikely

I think I want to vote in these two slots today so I’m interested in how this fight develops.

Yeah I hate to break it to you (not really, I love it) but I'm expecting you to carry this game and I'm not intending on fighting it out with my scum reads. I feel like you've come close to solving this game two or three times now and I feel like I'm potentially throwing you off trail with my stinky "scumminess." I don't know what to say other than that it isn't me, I swear.

And this isnt really pandering either. He's not trying to butter you up to get you to get him to not be flipped, he's trying to make the game easier for you to solve when he's gone.

[skitter30]

So youre saying the only relevant wagonomics stuffs happens before this point huh…

Also hope you are recovering from surgery well skit - good to have you back and helping us

Yeah, basically. Once everyone got riled up over the non-claim it seemed fairly inevitable.

The switch *from* scol to making gera the leading wagon is p interesting imo

And thanks! Every day a little better >.>

[skitter30]

I think most of his day2 posting is nai and 'i'm going to get flipped soon anyways so why am i even talking to you guys

I think that this can come from town qnd scum in general but in this case it's sort of overlaid with the vibes of 'ugh why doesnt everyone see what i see and i have no patience to explain things to these dullards while they're trying to wagon me' which feels more townie than scummy to me

[skitter30]

I still don't think he's scum
But *if* he were and we're trying to identify the key wagonomics, it would be that part of the game. And generally i dont think we can fraw any wagin based conclusions from things that happened after gera refused to claim

[skitter30]

Why do you think pooky is scum here?

And what do you think abt unwnd? That's who i'd want to vote if not herta

And r.e. scol - i really couldn't tell you why he's choosing to play this way but this is the vibe i'm getting from him

[skitter30]

Hmmm?

[skitter30]

Ok sounds good let's talk abt it tom have a good night!

[skitter30]

I am utterly awful at reading him >.>

I dont think scol/pooky makes sense as svs because i dont think he reps in and immediately tries to wagon his partner

[skitter30]

I think most of his day2 posting is nai and 'i'm going to get flipped soon anyways so why am i even talking to you guys

I think that this can come from town qnd scum in general but in this case it's sort of overlaid with the vibes of 'ugh why doesnt everyone see what i see and i have no patience to explain things to these dullards while they're trying to wagon me' which feels more townie than scummy to me

Can you explain the last part?

Which part

[skitter30]

Why Pooky again?

You didn't ask yet.

Meh, still skitter-kt-pooky imo. I don't think any of my town reads have become stronger or weaker either.

I'd ask for a reads list from skitter, kt and pooky, but I don't think skitter and kt will bother to fake one and I already know scum pooky can make one up at will.

Scol why do you think you are scummy?

I don't think I'm scummy, I think I'm null and within scum range.

Posts like these

[skitter30]

They exhibit the vibe i described above
I think scum would be trying more, and not checking out due to lack of patience or from getting annoyed

[skitter30]

That's my point

[skitter30]

What abt it?

[skitter30]

I feel like Town would be nuanced while scum would be more nitpicky.

I'm not really sure i agree with this statement

[skitter30]

That town are more likely to be nuanced
And that scum are more likely to be nitpicky

Or that you can draw conclusions abt someone's alignment with that statement

[skitter30]

Right, and scum-me chooses ro spend the entire game defending her partner who is clearly gonna flipped at some point because ...

We gotta fill in that blank in order for that to make sense

[skitter30]

>.>

[skitter30]

No, i dont
I'm basing this off of what i see happening here

[skitter30]

Or, i think he's town and am explaining why i don't like the fact that we're abt to flip him for the second day in a row

Do u actually think i'm scum (with him) here?

[skitter30]

Right, and scum-me chooses ro spend the entire game defending her partner who is clearly gonna flipped at some point because ...

We gotta fill in that blank in order for that to make sense

because u think ur going to look like bad town for it instead of scum for it?

I really cant imagine why scum-me would think this is a good path to take in this scenario

Also hey fire

[skitter30]

ive only read about 15 pages and i think so.
I have no clue how u got to townread to begin with on the slot. Its very fucking wild.

I dont think the way he's playing this comes from scum

[skitter30]

Hey i wasnt here for like a week
I'm p sure if i wanted to find a reason to switch i could have come back with some sort of revelation to justify voting if i wanted to

And there's a lot in the early pages abt my initial townread too, lmk what u think when u get there

[skitter30]

Still don't think we should do this

[skitter30]

In that ...?
I dont believe in flipping slots because it might be informative

[skitter30]

Sco has been scummy enough to end up being a leading wagon, with that wagon comprising at least a portion of slots she says she is townreading, but to her (and seemingly only her) Sco is obviously town but that read seems to have come from his opening post, that it was 'trying to move the game out of rvs', and when I've pointed out the issues I have with the post being internally inconsistent I've been told

I'm 'expecting too much of a early post'

.

people can be scummy without being scum, see: how basically every misflip happens

i also don't believe i said the bolded, i just think you read it wrong

[skitter30]

skitter I kind of see what you’re saying ablut how scum doesnt play like this but idk maybe hes just tired of constantly playing scum?

I agree with freedom that i dont expect town to play like this either.

So at this point with the information we have is which is more unlikely?

Stubborn deflated town who’s too lazy and sees no path forward or deflated burnt out wolf?

i mean sure but he doesn't really seem like the type to just 'give up' when the going gets rough, based on the numerous fights he's picked over teh last two days

also, like, if he's scum ... why is the game dead? is he getting bussed? what are scum doing rn ?

[skitter30]

If you are town I'm worried it's just a playstyle thing but like it feels like you are trying to manipulate everyone in the palm of hands

this isn't manipulative-pooky and this game is like the antithesis of him trying hard

[skitter30]

Scoliosis [5]: KittyTacky, PookyTheMagicalBear, Ydrasse, unwnd, Firebringer
PookyTheMagicalBear [3]: Scoliosis, innocentvillager, Toto
Herta [2]: Val89, skitter30
skitter30 [1]: Herta

i don't hate the pooky wagon tho

i think that scum on scol would be in the middle slots, like in {pooky/ydra/unwnd}

[skitter30]

Im on the “wait for a replacement” side but im a party pooper and take this game too seriously sometimes

same

[skitter30]

Pooky originated the Scol push. He was fairly townread thanks to skitter until Pooky repped in and immediately rocked the boat. Then everyone followed him. I disagree with your version of events that he joined in on your deathtunnel

i don't think scol has been fairly townread at any point in this game, this has been a fairly controversial position since the start and iirc people were indicating they were going to wagon scol well before pooky repped in

it doesn't really make a lot of sense for scum-pooky to be bussing scol here (like, just, why enter teh game bussing your partner and stick with it for like two days), but it does make sense for scum-pooky to be voting town-scol here quite a bit

[skitter30]

i mean i'm not sure i'm 'expecting' a replacement so much if the options are 'flip the slot now' or 'wait a few hours and if he doesn't show up replace the slot'
i'd rather the latter

pedit yeah i agree that his push was the catalyst for sure
that's why it doesn't make sense as a bus

[skitter30]

i think he could be scum here tho

[skitter30]

If you are town I'm worried it's just a playstyle thing but like it feels like you are trying to manipulate everyone in the palm of hands

this isn't manipulative-pooky and this game is like the antithesis of him trying hard

He tried abnormally hard in the beginning I felt

Now hes kind of whatever i guess sure

Do you think his characterization of his own meta as just a pure memer (for the most part) when scum is reasonable

i dont' think he's been trying hard really at all in this game
and i think he plays some scum games as a memer and sometimes he's more serious, i think it depends on the game

[skitter30]

OK, then how should I have been reading it?

then i misremembered what i said

[skitter30]

My point being if you are going to use the origination of the Sco wagon as a vehicle to read Pooky, it would be worth re-reading those early pages, because I don't think either narrative, that KT nor Pooky really got the ball rolling there tells the whole story.

there was a lot of desire to wagon scol prior pooky rep-in

he was not immediately getting flipped tho; i don't think the push on him in the ~200-300's was going to lead to his flip in the immediate future, at that stage of the game

at the same time, i think pooky voting there (coupled with unwnd immediately following the vote), was a catalyst that led to an argument between pooky/scol that led to herta placing an 'e1 or e2' vote a few hours later

i don't think pooky votes there, or starts that argument, if they're buddies
it makes a lot of sense if scol is town, tho, and there were many people focused on the slot already

i don't think it's contradictory at all to think that kitty's push and pooky's push at different stages of the game had different weights and impacts

Spoiler:

hyyyyyype

VOTE: scol

vote count 1.06

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-12-06 00:45:52).

yeet

Scoliosis [3]:

KittyTacky, unwnd, PookyTheMagicalBear

Herta [2]:

skitter30, geraintm

geraintm [2]:

innocentvillager, Herta

skitter30 [2]:

Val89, Scoliosis

PookyTheMagicalBear [2]:

Ydrasse, Dannflor

Ydrasse [1]:

Toto

not voting [1]:

Freedom

mod notes

~ this is a mod note

flavour

Pooky swoops in and takes over

VOTE: scoliosis

That's E-1 or E-2

(scol votes pooky a couple posts after the vc leading to a fight between them that culminates in many people voting scol)

[skitter30]

sorry technically unwnd voted first i think but it was in collusion/with the support of pooky

i still don't know who's scum in that interaction but the posts from 450-460 or so are gross and there's definitely scum in the two of them

[skitter30]

i felt like 1651 was dumbing down my argument into something less nuanced than what i was trying to say at the time, which made me bristle a bit because i don't think that's something i would have tried to argue or say in that way

what i meant 292 more in the sense of:
your expectations for his reasoning on the difference between posts are unreasonably high given the stage of the game, i don't think that he needs to have an explanation for why he commented on one prior post and not the other, and i don't think it's scummy if he doesn't have such an explanation. in post 20 he can choose to have found one or two prior RVS posts notable but not all of them, and that doesn't imply that he's internally inconsistent or making up things

i don't particularly care to rehash our differing interpretations of 20 yet again tho, which is why i kinda left it as is

it isn't something i 'ought' to push back against, it's just more like i don't like how you presented my argument, and you sometimes take things out of context (or draw odd conclusions) which annoys me

[skitter30]

i don't think it's contradictory at all to think that kitty's push and pooky's push at different stages of the game had different weights and impacts

Is anyone suggesting it is?

Looking at skitters ISO for that quote has reminded me that at one point, she wanted to wagon KT for changing his read on Sco.

Like ig i'm kinda confused how kittytacky can start off liking 20 and then move to disliking it when other people find it scummy without scoliosis posting anything in between

This was all pre-Pooky rep-in.

My point being if you are going to use the origination of the Sco wagon as a vehicle to read Pooky, it would be worth re-reading those early pages, because I don't think either narrative, that KT nor Pooky really got the ball rolling there tells the whole story.

I need to go check if there were indeed "other people" plural who found 20 scummy, or if skitter was just overstating it for the sake of trying to get something moving on KT since I remember feeling like a lone voice but if there were multiple people expressing reservations about Sco prior to KT starting to push there, I don't understand either point of view.

[skitter30]

the implication in 1734 is p clearly that you think i shouldn't be thinking that pooky was the catalyst of the scol wagon, is it not?

you seem to imply that me thining KT was scummy earlier means that I shouldn't think pooky is resonponsible for the scol wagon?

[skitter30]

i think he could be scum here tho

Just to clarify, he being "pooky"?

yes

[skitter30]

I need to go check if there were indeed "other people" plural who found 20 scummy, or if skitter was just overstating it for the sake of trying to get something moving on KT since I remember feeling like a lone voice but if there were multiple people expressing reservations about Sco prior to KT starting to push there, I don't understand either point of view.

also you yourself are admitting that you had a similar POV to kitty at this time
what exactly is the criticism with the statement of 'other people' here ?

[skitter30]

people remember different things differently
and tend to be the protagonist in their own story

[skitter30]

and 1734 definitely seemed like it was directed at me, but fair enuf

[skitter30]

i don't give much weight to kitty's reasoning for town-pooky tbh

[skitter30]

I really don't understand. What naunce or context do you thing is being lost by summing up:

everything after teh first comma

[skitter30]

i'm not really sure why *this* is what you're choosing to vote me over, but ok

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

VOTE: val89

19 looks like a scum post to me.

I suspect Testarossa too for posting 17. By comparison, 6 doesn't include a vote so it isn't trying to blend.

1. How so?
2. It's not trying to blend... because it's by the IC.

IMO this kind of weird comment (2) is townish.

VOTE: Church

Popping in to say I'll be active tomorrow.

I don't like this.

The townleans are fine for now.

What townleans?

Nothing scummy IME, but feels like everyone's poking at a dead slug of a game (assuming holidays, that's what was up for me) trying to get life out of it.

The game just started. It doesn't sound to me like you've read the game at all. I feel like you're lying in 40 and I want to know why.

nothing stands out as exceptional enough to comment on yet.

Nothing scummy IME, but feels like everyone's poking at a dead slug of a game (assuming holidays, that's what was up for me)

The game just started. It doesn't sound to me like you've read the game at all. I feel like you're lying in 40 and I want to know why.

I misspoke in 41. It isn't that it sounds like you haven't read the game, it's that it sounds like you've read the game

too much

and are being careful not to create any unintentional links or imply which points you know were important and which weren't.

when i was remembering what happened here after the fact, i thought that this was the order:
* 20 happened
* scol posted 41/42
* kitty had some followup questions on 20 (in 24) that he thought had gone unanswered, which he mentioned again a couple of times later. at this point i thought that scol *hadn't* posted again after 24, so i thought kitty was being unreasonable in expecting a response when (i thought) scol hadn't posted again at all

-

also for the second point: you're literally the other people. You acknowledge that there were other people (yourself)

my starting point r.e. the timeline was wrong and a mistake, but i dont' think the conclusion was unreasonable given where i was starting
when it was pointed out that the timeline was wrong i re-evaluated

[skitter30]

Fwiw i'm reading them as experienced in mafia but new to ms and is used to a different site meta (and/or possibly an irl player new to forum mafia)

Derp number 3. No re-evaluation in light of that assumption being proven incorrect.

Wait really
...

If true this actually changes my read quite a bit

There should have been, though, apparently.

it was specific the revelation taht it might be FL that I was re-evaluating

[skitter30]

then i misremembered what i said

Derp number 4.

everything after teh first comma

No, wait! It's not a derp; Val is trying to deliberately misrep her position.

i did *not* accuse you of trying to deliberately misrep your position, i said i disliked the way you framed it and that it annoyed me.

[skitter30]

is it just me or is skitter more sassy these days

yes apparently

[skitter30]

the way I read you is mostly looking at your posts - comparing to thread and seeing if you're keeping up and generally how much you want to be here. if you feel like you want to be here/engage I slot you as town. You have issues keeping up with the thread this starts looking worse.

For me - fair enuf, that is probably a good way to read me

Cool. I'll take your word for it.

It looks to me like you are phoning this game in, and apparently that's your scum meta.

phoning it in would be ignoring you now
i'm around when i can be, life is busy

[skitter30]

MathBlade replaces unwnd.

Catching up now.

Anyone got a TLDR to get me started?

we're abt to flip scol who i think is town
yesterday we policy-flipped gera for not claiming
toto is ic
iv is obvious town
kitty is probably town
val is probably town but somewhat annoying
i think there's probably scum in you/pooky

[skitter30]

Pooky seems sus.
Val v Skitter seems TVT

why to both of these?

pedit you've fallen off the face of the game since like mid-day1 and have been popping in sporadically and a bit inanely, the tr from way back when has dropped off
pedit2 what's never happening?

[skitter30]

Elimming me.

And cool. I probably will be even more sus and never elimmed. Should be awesome.

Because Pooky isn’t hyperposting and I don’t see him trying to control things.

TVT is just gut no reason just getting thoughts down based on posting them coming back.

Although if I am wrong on that you’re more likely S than Val

the first pedit was at ydra
i don't think pooky not hyperposting is ai fwiw, i think that more depends on what sort of mood he's in and what sort of game it is

either way
VOTE: pooky

[skitter30]

fwiw i do kinda wish the scol slot had been repped first ...

[skitter30]

?
the whole game is waiting on the scol slot, it's at like e2 or e1 or something
just would have been better for the game as a whole for that slot to be filled first

[skitter30]

i'm not sure what you're saying math, tbh
but i agree with you on the scol wagon

[skitter30]

I'm actually finding these posts a little scummy

[skitter30]

But it’s okay I will just use my scum powers of mind control and we elim Pooky.

Repeat after me

*we will elim Pooky*

I mean i'm voting him already, but this is making me reconsider a bit

Pedit yes, abt math

[skitter30]

I mean we can try one on math

[skitter30]

math is already here tho

I mean i think he'd still have to respond 'in the moment tho'

Pedit i dont think the disappearing is ai

[skitter30]

Lurker elims sometimes hit scum but are more often refuge for the desperate.

Given gamestate scum likely desperate

What does this even mean in this context?

[skitter30]

Math do u think scol is town or scum here?

Pedit ?

[skitter30]

I have to say, Pookies Sco + Skitter + Unwnd solve is starting to look quite appealing.

I think I would be desperate to kill pooky in that situation as well.

This is wild, but sure

[skitter30]

I think math can be scum here
But not with pooky

[skitter30]

I think math can be scum here
But not with pooky

Oooh the scummy backpedal while keeping vote on Pooky. Fun times let’s go!

I've been saying for abt 1000 posts that i think there's scum in the pair of your slots, but don't know who it is

[skitter30]

VOTE: pooky

e-1

Still think herta is scummy here ^

UNVOTE:

Don’t want a scum quick hammer. But still there in spirit.

You're arguing that pooky is scum, why would thia be a bad thing from your pov?

Pedit i mean i'm always down to wagon herta

[skitter30]

mathblade is really in silly mode isn't he

Im kind of shocked at how easy it was to start the Pooky wagon

What do you think abt math here?

[skitter30]

That was meant for iv i'm not sure how the fire post got quoted

[skitter30]

VOTE: pooky

e-1

Still think herta is scummy here ^

UNVOTE:

Don’t want a scum quick hammer. But still there in spirit.

You're arguing that pooky is scum, why would thia be a bad thing from your pov?

Pedit i mean i'm always down to wagon herta

Skitter where are your reads at rn? Why are you still voting pooky if your top scumread seems interested in putting E1 Pooky than voting for Scol?

Well i spent most of the day on my top scumread and didnt really get much traction there
I'm def willing to try to wagon again if there's any level of support for it

And i stayed on pooky since i dont want to vote scol, leaving the one other major wagon ...

But i dont really think scum-pooky reacts this way to math pushing him so

UNVOTE:

I don't hate the idea of wagoning math either

[skitter30]

Pooky seems sus.
Val v Skitter seems TVT

why to both of these?

pedit you've fallen off the face of the game since like mid-day1 and have been popping in sporadically and a bit inanely, the tr from way back when has dropped off
pedit2 what's never happening?

Elimming me.

And cool. I probably will be even more sus and never elimmed. Should be awesome.

Because Pooky isn’t hyperposting and I don’t see him trying to control things.

TVT is just gut no reason just getting thoughts down based on posting them coming back.

Although if I am wrong on that you’re more likely S than Val

viewtopic.php?p=13527714#p13527714

Pooky imho would blow up if he thought it would change people’s minds.

I don’t care about ate. You could beg me for a million dollars for the best cause in the world and I wouldn’t care as it’s NAI.

In other words I have no doubt what Pooky is saying he believes in I just think it’s scum Pooky trying to get off the block.

The only way to convince me is to effort and he doesn’t want to.

Well, is efforting scum-indicative or not for him?