Open 867: PYP: SEFD - Game Over !


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Post Post #1463 (isolation #200) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:10 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1280, Porkens wrote:*a question directed at rodan about johnnys post
In post 1281, Roden wrote:I checked Penguin, he's a weak spot in my read range and he seemed like he was fairly influential D1. I figured either I'd catch a deep wolf or we would have a strong player conftown'd and around for a couple days. He came back as town.

I considered checking Gamma, but I felt confident in my read there. Checking NSG seemed pointless if she wasn't going to be around and I thought there was a chance she could be Vig'd anyway. Porkens would've been my second choice for a check, but I figured we could make them readable from vote pressure in the end. No one else felt like a notable enough choice for a Cop check at the time.
In post 1282, Porkens wrote:I feel deep penguin for real
you missed that?
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Post Post #1464 (isolation #201) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:11 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I don't feel like that's something town ever forgets

VOTE: porkens
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Post Post #1469 (isolation #202) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:15 pm

Post by Dannflor »

okay

VOTE: star power
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Post Post #1470 (isolation #203) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:16 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I guess it's also unlikely you as scum wouldn't have been talking about that clear with your buddies and I don't know why you'd try to fake not knowing about it in this specific way
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Post Post #1472 (isolation #204) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:16 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1468, Porkens wrote:Also OMGUS much?
I cannot even tell if you scum read me
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Post Post #1473 (isolation #205) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:17 pm

Post by Dannflor »

yeah okay I believe you
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Post Post #1475 (isolation #206) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:18 pm

Post by Dannflor »

pls no
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Post Post #1485 (isolation #207) » Thu Nov 10, 2022 5:41 am

Post by Dannflor »

I think it's probably correct to just kill the slot that has flaked 3 times at this point
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Post Post #1490 (isolation #208) » Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:33 am

Post by Dannflor »

uh I strongly disagree with that statement
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Post Post #1522 (isolation #209) » Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:52 pm

Post by Dannflor »

hey everyone the day ends in like 2 days

@mod I'm going V/LA until Sunday night


I likely won't be around but I'll try to check in for changing my vote if absolutely needed

I think Yume is a much better vig target than elimination today and I think there are at least a couple good reasons to think Star Power is scum here, the fact that their slot has flaked out three times notwithstanding

I don't think waiting for catchups is very pro town at this point

anyway please do something
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Post Post #1523 (isolation #210) » Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:54 pm

Post by Dannflor »

also probably the purest wagon in the game :good:
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Post Post #1527 (isolation #211) » Thu Nov 10, 2022 5:07 pm

Post by Dannflor »

plausible
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Post Post #1528 (isolation #212) » Thu Nov 10, 2022 5:08 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1525, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Everyone else, vote star or tell me why you won't
your vote is parked on kitty
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Post Post #1619 (isolation #213) » Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:19 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I think I have a very very close to 100% read on an nsg partner

significantly less confident but still reasonably confident guess for the second

I'll wait for mass claim to be finished
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Post Post #1621 (isolation #214) » Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:21 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1599, JohnnyFarrar wrote:That was bad
what is this in response to
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Post Post #1622 (isolation #215) » Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:24 pm

Post by Dannflor »

oh

i went for tracker but didn't get it
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Post Post #1623 (isolation #216) » Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:25 pm

Post by Dannflor »

actually we skipped kitten around

kitten you should go
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Post Post #1630 (isolation #217) » Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:39 pm

Post by Dannflor »

hm worth a shot
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Post Post #1635 (isolation #218) » Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:47 pm

Post by Dannflor »

hi so is johnny conf town or am i reading the universal backup wiki page wrong
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Post Post #1641 (isolation #219) » Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:57 pm

Post by Dannflor »

ohp Penguin already asked

it is not that makes sense
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Post Post #1642 (isolation #220) » Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:58 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1637, JunkoChan wrote:So NSG was trying to shift attention to my wagon or gamma emerald for that matter
In post 546, northsidegal wrote:any particular reason for gamma over junko today?
:eyes:
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Post Post #1651 (isolation #221) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:24 am

Post by Dannflor »

interesting
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Post Post #1662 (isolation #222) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:38 am

Post by Dannflor »

defensiveness isn't alignment indicative for kitten
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Post Post #1671 (isolation #223) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:53 am

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1667, kitten around wrote:
In post 1662, Dannflor wrote:defensiveness isn't alignment indicative for kitten
What’s your current read on me Dann? Am I still part of your hero solve?
I think it's possible you are scum but you are not currently my top scum read

if you're not scum I think I'll get around to a correct read on you if I see you post enough
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Post Post #1676 (isolation #224) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:01 am

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1673, kitten around wrote:
In post 1671, Dannflor wrote:
In post 1667, kitten around wrote:
In post 1662, Dannflor wrote:defensiveness isn't alignment indicative for kitten
What’s your current read on me Dann? Am I still part of your hero solve?
I think it's possible you are scum but you are not currently my top scum read

if you're not scum I think I'll get around to a correct read on you if I see you post enough
Hmmmm . . . not liking this post. If you know who I am, then you know that this is never my scumgame here. I didn’t want to influence your answer because you calling me town would be nia.
I have definitely not seen enough to know that

I am waiting for something specific from you
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Post Post #1677 (isolation #225) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:02 am

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1675, kitten around wrote:
In post 1674, JunkoChan wrote:
In post 1672, kitten around wrote:
In post 1668, JunkoChan wrote:in simple words, FMPOV since NSG wanted to disolve the split at that time the split being (Junko/Gamma/dann) odd are one of you 2 is mafia

is that simple enough for you?
Well, obviously that can’t be true fmpov but there are other unconfirmed slots in the game. If that weren’t the case, than I wouldn’t take issue with that.

I will tell you this, if Dann knows who I am his answer to my question could be telling and I’ll leave it at that.
I know dude.
Town!Dann has never wrongly scumread me like ever, so I’m kind of worried now. If he had no idea who I was and gave the same exact answer, I’d probably have no issue with it.
I have wrongly town read you before

don't fret if you're town Nancy, I'll get there if you're not lying to me
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Post Post #1680 (isolation #226) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:12 am

Post by Dannflor »

I want to wait and see what Kitty claims
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Post Post #1691 (isolation #227) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:48 am

Post by Dannflor »

that's not very nice when she asked not to be outed
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Post Post #1693 (isolation #228) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:16 am

Post by Dannflor »

I didn't name drop her
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Post Post #1695 (isolation #229) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:19 am

Post by Dannflor »

oh i am an idiot
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Post Post #1696 (isolation #230) » Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:19 am

Post by Dannflor »

sorry I totally thought I said kitten there
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Post Post #1732 (isolation #231) » Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:20 am

Post by Dannflor »

I'm inclined to think Kitty's play around nsg/starpower looks uninformed

star power had like 5 votes and was not posting, honestly I would expect scum to already be bussing at that point

that positioning is like so awful for someone that knows what star power is flipping
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Post Post #1739 (isolation #232) » Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:43 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1732, Dannflor wrote:I'm inclined to think Kitty's play around nsg/starpower looks uninformed

star power had like 5 votes and was not posting, honestly I would expect scum to already be bussing at that point

that positioning is like so awful for someone that knows what star power is flipping
on second thought this might be awful reasoning to apply to Kitty
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Post Post #1741 (isolation #233) » Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:46 pm

Post by Dannflor »

amogus
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Post Post #1748 (isolation #234) » Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:03 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1744, JunkoChan wrote:there's also a world where Dann and jhonny are the other mafia
uhhhh can you expand on this world for me
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Post Post #1761 (isolation #235) » Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:35 pm

Post by Dannflor »

mkay I'll be back in a few hours to solve this game :cool:
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Post Post #1813 (isolation #236) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:54 am

Post by Dannflor »

sorry crashed after i got home last night

will be around today
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Post Post #1819 (isolation #237) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:42 am

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1814, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Talk to me Dann. These last 3 pages are bumming me out
kitten prob town

kitty idk it actually matters what my read on him is isn't he self resolving
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Post Post #1820 (isolation #238) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:42 am

Post by Dannflor »

I guess that assumes Johnny is town too
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Post Post #1821 (isolation #239) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:43 am

Post by Dannflor »

either way the jailkeeper claim narrows scum options

he should target penguin tonight unless there are any objections to that
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Post Post #1823 (isolation #240) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:53 am

Post by Dannflor »

VOTE: JunkoChan

I think this is scum
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Post Post #1828 (isolation #241) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:55 am

Post by Dannflor »

Junko why do I feel like you pivoted to pushing kitten not because you actually believe she is scum but because she seems easier to push than me
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Post Post #1829 (isolation #242) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:58 am

Post by Dannflor »

btw I am tempted to just town clear Porkens & Enchant

Porkens I think is individually pretty town anyways but regardless the comments from NSG about "tea leaf divining" sticks out in my mind

I think scum NSG would have expected to flip at some point and I wonder if she was trying to stave off speculation that would lead to people clearing other people who picked the same number as her

I have a hard time imagining scum thinking the WIFOM is worth giving up PRs *especially* if they picked multitasking
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Post Post #1832 (isolation #243) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:14 pm

Post by Dannflor »

NSG notoriously hates scum and I don't think is very confident in her abilities

I would very much expect her to believe she was going to die far before end game

And I think she placed an intentionally weak vote on JunkoChan at a time when there were already two big wagons on town in order to distance. nsg is not someone who can open wolf convincingly, I think she would've felt especially awkward hopping onto a town wagon at this time

if you actually look at the context surrounding the wagons at the time, there is pretty strong momentum on me and Gamma already. scum doesn't need to tip the scales.

I know I'm town. I'm pretty sure kitten is town at this point. The composition of both the main wagons then is confirmed town: scrrrdbear, yume, and nk15 on gamma, penguin and Roden on me

this pretty much matches up with my feeling this game that town has just been eating itself alive while scum stands to the sidelines

Junko was off pushing their vanity wagon in Porkens

NSG made a really weak vote on Junko. they didn't follow up trying to convince anyone of it, they didn't try to meaningfully persuade anyone off the wagons. they mostly just shit posted until they flaked out

is exactly the type of post scum tends to make when they know a wagon is going to flip town and want plausible deniability / town cred for it. she makes the same soft defense of gamma in . like she wants to encourage the wagons on us but doesn't actually want to stick out her neck and hard defend.

NSG never follows up trying to case Junko even when literally no pressure builds after her vote. why? because she doesn't actually care
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Post Post #1833 (isolation #244) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:16 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I also generally think Junko is not approaching kitten like a townie who thinks a slot is scum does

Junko's posts are meant to antagonize not solve

I see what Johnny says about Junko generally being abrasive. That's true. And I definitely think town getting annoyed with kitten is possible, but I think in that case there would still be some attempt to understand kitten's motivations or try break through to her, especially if Junko really thought scum was between me and kitten

but that's not really the case. Junko's pivot and push seems more designed to make kitten look bad and because Junko knows that's going to be an easy elimination to get. I don't get the sense Junko actually cares about my alignment nor kittens
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Post Post #1834 (isolation #245) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:19 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1767, JunkoChan wrote:
In post 1764, kitten around wrote:
In post 1301, Star Power wrote:
In post 288, Dannflor wrote:
In post 206, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 202, Porkens wrote:There’s a serious non rvs wagon on gamma.
Do you support it or not?
If you do, why not join it?
If you don’t, what’s the motive behind posting this?
this is like the towniest post I think you've made but I'm also wondering if you're partners
:!: :!: :!:
This is why I don’t think it’s Dann.
If it's not Dann it's you, that's my point
also like Junko, I don't believe you actually believe in your own solve. Not just because you don't actually seem interested in interacting with me or interacting with kitten in a non-inflammatory way

but because you make posts like this:
In post 1744, JunkoChan wrote:I'm just gonna say, if you are town Nancy (I don't even care about you alt thing cuz it was already revelaled so fuck off) you threw right here, right now for overeacting

I mean there's a fking world where N_M and enchant are both mafia

there's also a world where Dann and jhonny are the other mafia

I made an educated guess and you freaked out the moment I pointed it out

anyway, this game feels really dead so go on with the show
where you casually slide NM and enchant into the PoE which feels just really opportunistic and slimy.
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Post Post #1836 (isolation #246) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:24 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 977, JunkoChan wrote:
In post 975, Roden wrote:VOTE: NSG
Weird for You to vote nsg after your last day 1 post

This should be a nobrainer

VOTE: Porkens

I don't want to say I told you so, but I did
also from the other side of JunkoChan > nsg

I think this was a really weird soft defense considering JunkoChan ostensibly scum read nsg all of D1 (which Junko weirdly never actually voted or pushed despite stating she was scum a couple times?)

I also don't really believe Junko actually missed SCRRRDBEAR and Roden both pushing nsg in the twilight of D1
In post 1034, JunkoChan wrote:on that note we could lim nsg, if nsg flips town, we lim roden, if scum we lim porkens or another roden call no?
I also think this post, already made after the nsg wagon started to build (and Junko was still pushing Porkens for ???? reasons) is like classic scum trying to look uninformed on a flip

town usually do not think in terms of chain flips because they don't know how people are going to flip. this type of outlining a long chain that is never going to come to pass reads as performative exactly because Junko knows nsg will flip scum
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Post Post #1840 (isolation #247) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:29 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1619, Dannflor wrote:I think I have a very very close to 100% read on an nsg partner

significantly less confident but still reasonably confident guess for the second

I'll wait for mass claim to be finished
I lied when I said this btw

I wasn't as sure on JunkoChan at the start of the day, but I wanted to see if anyone had any particularly scummy reactions to this during massclaim

like literally a page later Junko started pushing the idea that they were hard cleared town from NSG's flip and that scum was between kitten and me

I don't think this is a coincidence especially because they specifically were trying to fish out where I stood in without revealing exactly where they stood on me.

one of the reasons I feel a lot better about kitten and JohnnyFarrar too, is that after a scum flip on D2, I'd be expecting scum to do damage control and most importantly control the narrative

both kitten and Johnny have been more lackadaisical and on the sidelines and not trying to influence the game too much while Junko has been the only one meaningfully pushing any sort of narrative about the game

And it really feels like a narrative not a real thought
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Post Post #1841 (isolation #248) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:30 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1839, JunkoChan wrote:but there's one thing i don't suck at, and that's puppetting as scum and if you really think I would play like this as scum and this is not scum!you pushing for me, one day I'll return the favor
can you explain to me what exactly you wouldn't be doing here as scum

I don't think you've played "badly" necessarily here at all

what is so bad it couldn't be scum
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Post Post #1842 (isolation #249) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:33 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1838, JunkoChan wrote:you are insulting my scumplay Dann
I suck at solving unless is late game
I can sort of imagine what could happen given the current scenario
but that's it, if you actually believe this story you are making you are probably actually scum and if somehow you manage to move the wagon on me, you should go next
I don't expect you to be good at solving

I don't know how that excuse is relevant

but I think if you're town you actually have some curiosity about people's alignments and I don't really see that today. the way you are interacting with kitten in particular feels more focused on goading than like trying to get reaction or figure her out at all.

I mean, I know you might goad and troll as town, but I think hidden beneath that would be some amount of curiosity

I feel like you're not curious about me either? like you proposed this story about scum being between me and kitten but you didn't actually try to talk to me about it. When I tried to engage you on it you shut me down
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Post Post #1846 (isolation #250) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:37 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1843, JunkoChan wrote:
In post 1841, Dannflor wrote:
In post 1839, JunkoChan wrote:but there's one thing i don't suck at, and that's puppetting as scum and if you really think I would play like this as scum and this is not scum!you pushing for me, one day I'll return the favor
can you explain to me what exactly you wouldn't be doing here as scum

I don't think you've played "badly" necessarily here at all

what is so bad it couldn't be scum
dude you are basicly saying i'm acting like this towards kitten because I don't want to solve and just attack her and I don't want to push you because kitten is "easier"

If I were scum here I would continue to meme post and ignore kitten and don't draw attention to myself like that

it would be such a stupid move
why is that a stupid move

scum love 1v1 shit fights because it gives them content to hide behind

like do you really believe as scum you'd be afraid of negative attention for doing this? I don't really believe that's an actual thought you'd have

I think kitten is a hyper defensive personality and any sort of attack on her tends to come off better than her defense just from an optics point of view (sorry kitten). and it feels like you know that and are pursuing that
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Post Post #1851 (isolation #251) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:43 pm

Post by Dannflor »

can you answer what your read is on me now, Junko

and why
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Post Post #1855 (isolation #252) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:45 pm

Post by Dannflor »

and you think I'm scum with Johnny?
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Post Post #1876 (isolation #253) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:27 pm

Post by Dannflor »

did anyone suspect roden
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Post Post #1880 (isolation #254) » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:28 pm

Post by Dannflor »

junko i think it would help me if you talked about your reads on not me/kitten

like who do you actually think is most likely to be town

what happened to your read on Porkens

I don't have a good sense for what you actually think about the game at all
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Post Post #1931 (isolation #255) » Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:46 pm

Post by Dannflor »

does anyone have a reason for NM scum
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Post Post #1936 (isolation #256) » Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:02 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I mean no
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Post Post #1937 (isolation #257) » Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:03 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I just feel uneasy that I cased Junko and then all of a sudden an... apathy wagon sprung up?

I mean maybe it really is that easy but it just feels like weird timing
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Post Post #1956 (isolation #258) » Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:04 pm

Post by Dannflor »

uhhhhh
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Post Post #1999 (isolation #259) » Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:41 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I’m sad
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Post Post #2000 (isolation #260) » Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:41 pm

Post by Dannflor »

Kitty why are you alive
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Post Post #2002 (isolation #261) » Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:59 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I’m glad* oops
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Post Post #2005 (isolation #262) » Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:53 pm

Post by Dannflor »

yknow it feels kinda bad that you popped in here to answer my question but without any other reactions or thoughts or questions
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Post Post #2006 (isolation #263) » Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:54 pm

Post by Dannflor »

also can't say i am a mega fan of not mafia finally having an opinion on the game after

1: he was put in real danger yesterday
2: i hard pushed a townie's elimination
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Post Post #2007 (isolation #264) » Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:55 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I don't know why I desperately keep wanting these games to be so much harder than they actually are
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Post Post #2009 (isolation #265) » Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:57 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2003, KittyTacky wrote:
In post 2000, Dannflor wrote:Kitty why are you alive
Scum might be trying to frame me as scum JK?
it also kinda doesn't really sound like you believe yourself here
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Post Post #2010 (isolation #266) » Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:58 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2008, Enchant wrote:Targeting roleblocker in 2 scum game is plausable kill.

Jailkeeper atleast can be reflected by "I was shot, not performing kill".

SO i don't understand this accusation.
I mean I'm not saying it's a guilty

but I think in a world where Penguin is confirmed town it's somewhat weird to allow a confirmed town to be alive for that long
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Post Post #2012 (isolation #267) » Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:09 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I don't really think kitten approaches the 1v1 between me and Junko the way she did yesterday

she was pretty unafraid to get in the middle of it and engage with both Junko and me in way that didn't really feel like she was trying to score town points or look particularly good

I'd say it's probably pretty unintuitive for scum to play that was just because it's not especially great optics to piggy back off my push when looked at surface-levely? looking deeper though I feel like a post like speaks more to confident town than scum because like... that was such a free opportunity to shade other slots. 1899 shows some willingness to engage Junko so I don't feel like kitten was just focused on burying Junko either

I would expect scum to be playing around that 1v1 more on the sidelines obviously, there's really no need to get involved if town is already eating itself
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Post Post #2013 (isolation #268) » Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:13 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I will admit to some concerns about kitten's slot that have been stewing since the beginning of the game that I can finally talk about now due to Pictures ending

basically Gamma's emotional reactions to pushes this game (and his reactions to a couple players in particular) were very reminiscent of how he reacted to Nero hard pushing him in Pictures (which was a gamma!scum vs. Nero!town dynamic). there's just a little less empathy in those emotional reactions than I've come to expect from town!Gamma

but after yesterday I'm starting to think Gamma's just been having a tough time recently IRL regardless and I probably shouldn't be reading into those similarities. I'm like decentish at reading kitten barring one horrible game that shall not be named so I'm more inclined to trust my read on the slot from yesterday than my read from D1

I kinda don't have super strong faith in any of my reads right now though
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Post Post #2014 (isolation #269) » Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:16 pm

Post by Dannflor »

Porkens approached the 1v1 more on the sidelines but that's just kinda how Porkens seems to play and I have a hard time scum reading the tone on any of his posts

the way the random Junko/Dann crackpot theory is presented reads a lot more "town conspiracy theory" than scum trying to sew paranoia or stir the pot further

I guess if I have a massive blind spot maybe it's here but I also remember thinking Porkens/NSG D1 is never aligned so
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Post Post #2015 (isolation #270) » Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:21 pm

Post by Dannflor »

Dann
Penguin

Kitten
Porkens
Enchant?

=====

NM
Kitty

NM and Kitty both were more sideliney in the fight. NM more just from being absent until his name was called and Kitty had a really weird pop-in where he called me town (after calling me scum for the rest of the game) and then used me as an excuse to vote junko. I thought Kitty's pop-in was quite likely a bus at the time but uh, I'm really sorry Junko

Kitty, can you explain where and how you went from scum reading me to town reading me? who do you actually think is scum right now? I don't remember you pushing anyone yesterday until there was a fire going on between me and Junko

Enchant I've kinda just lazily town binned because I don't really think he makes sense as a partner with either NM or Kitty? ig I don't really get why Enchant let up on the "jailkeeper claim is scum" push yesterday? but beyond that I don't really have any problems with the slot
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Post Post #2016 (isolation #271) » Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:28 pm

Post by Dannflor »

kinda hate myself if scum is just the 3 lowest posters
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Post Post #2019 (isolation #272) » Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:56 pm

Post by Dannflor »

counterpoint: Image
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Post Post #2022 (isolation #273) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:15 am

Post by Dannflor »

i resign
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Post Post #2026 (isolation #274) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:48 am

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2024, KittyTacky wrote:PenguinPower - Null.
huh
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Post Post #2028 (isolation #275) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:49 am

Post by Dannflor »

is that real
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Post Post #2034 (isolation #276) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:00 am

Post by Dannflor »

no you don't
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Post Post #2035 (isolation #277) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:02 am

Post by Dannflor »

kinda impressed that kitty forgot that as either alignment tbh
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Post Post #2037 (isolation #278) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:12 am

Post by Dannflor »

VOTE: not_mafia

intuit this
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Post Post #2038 (isolation #279) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:14 am

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2024, KittyTacky wrote:Not_Mafia - Scum. I reread the game today, I don't think this is town NM, NM contrary to popular belief actually plays to win as town and here he's just... there. I retract my "scapecow" comment, he really reads like bored/demoralized/dissociated scum from the tone of his posts. Lim this.

VOTE: Not_Mafia
I'll kill kitty too

this explanation on this feels like a bussingggg
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Post Post #2043 (isolation #280) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:45 am

Post by Dannflor »

I didn't say it was because of a swing in opinion
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Post Post #2044 (isolation #281) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:46 am

Post by Dannflor »

I just feel like that's a lot of words to call someone scum who barely has that many words in his ISO
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Post Post #2045 (isolation #282) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:47 am

Post by Dannflor »

especially when Porkens is just "still don't like this"
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Post Post #2047 (isolation #283) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:56 am

Post by Dannflor »

hmm
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Post Post #2063 (isolation #284) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:50 am

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2053, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 2024, KittyTacky wrote:Not_Mafia - Scum. I reread the game today, I don't think this is town NM, NM contrary to popular belief actually plays to win as town and here he's just... there. I retract my "scapecow" comment, he really reads like bored/demoralized/dissociated scum from the tone of his posts. Lim this.
If you re-read the game today, then how did you forget I was cop cleared?
lmao
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Post Post #2064 (isolation #285) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:50 am

Post by Dannflor »

I don't know if "being wrong on Junko" is exactly the barometric I wanna use here
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Post Post #2066 (isolation #286) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:51 am

Post by Dannflor »

kitten what do you mean when you say resolve within me/NM

how firm is your read on me
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Post Post #2067 (isolation #287) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:55 am

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2049, Porkens wrote:
In post 2014, Dannflor wrote:Porkens approached the 1v1 more on the sidelines but that's just kinda how Porkens seems to play and I have a hard time scum reading the tone on any of his posts

the way the random Junko/Dann crackpot theory is presented reads a lot more "town conspiracy theory" than scum trying to sew paranoia or stir the pot further

I guess if I have a massive blind spot maybe it's here but I also remember thinking Porkens/NSG D1 is never aligned so
Quote part of my approach of the 1v1?
I thought posts like and or where you are kinda just meme posting in the midst of some intensity between me and Junko looked like Just Posting to Post

You kinda avoided taking a side until you town read both of us in without much substantiation or trying to defuse the fight

it rubbed me the wrong way
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Post Post #2068 (isolation #288) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:57 am

Post by Dannflor »

but I think the way you just

absolutely shit on NSG's read in is so unlikely to come from scum buddies especially that early in the game

like if you're scum there you aren't even bussing you're just like trying to shatter her credibility and for why

and like when I read through yesterday with less emotional eyes you just feel pretty comfortable
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Post Post #2069 (isolation #289) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:58 am

Post by Dannflor »

VOTE: Kitty

I think I believe that NM believes what he's saying more than I believe Kitty believes what he's saying
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Post Post #2073 (isolation #290) » Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:34 am

Post by Dannflor »

no

I kinda think Porkens is the most likely town slot in this game aside from Penguin
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Post Post #2085 (isolation #291) » Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:13 pm

Post by Dannflor »

v/La until Sunday for thanksgiving related things


will try to pop in as I can
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Post Post #2086 (isolation #292) » Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:13 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I don’t really think NM is the last one anymore
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Post Post #2134 (isolation #293) » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:38 am

Post by Dannflor »

I have been busy all weekend with family stuff

I'm back now
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Post Post #2135 (isolation #294) » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:40 am

Post by Dannflor »

enchant do you have reasons to believe kitten is scum beyond like, number/claim?

I don't have a good idea of what your reads actually are or what you want in this game

you were ready to vote me yesterday, what happened to that?
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Post Post #2137 (isolation #295) » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:45 am

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2024, KittyTacky wrote:KittyTacky - I'm town.
Dannflor - Town. Generally been solvy, shading of me seems uninformed (both of my meta and of this game). I think the Junko push also seemed uninformed.
kitten around - Town. Activity around Junko seemed TvT honestly, I doubt scum would react so explosively to an attack and attract unneeded attention to themselves.
PenguinPower - Null. Didn't do anything outrageously scummy this game but he's just kinda there which I thiiiink is NAI for PP?
Enchant - Null. I can't read Enchant. Sorry.
Porkens - Scum lean. I still don't like this, was just a bit hesitant to vote them yesterday.
Not_Mafia - Scum. I reread the game today, I don't think this is town NM, NM contrary to popular belief actually plays to win as town and here he's just... there. I retract my "scapecow" comment, he really reads like bored/demoralized/dissociated scum from the tone of his posts. Lim this.
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Post Post #2138 (isolation #296) » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:47 am

Post by Dannflor »

Spoiler:
In post 154, northsidegal wrote:
In post 149, Porkens wrote:4. You did downplay your own read - we can agree on that. I think that’s scummy because it’s a good setup for having your read proved wrong. I can see scum motivation there. What would the town motivation be?
i didn't "downplay" anything and if you think that i did you quite simply aren't reading anything that i'm saying. i try to be clear about the strength or relative lack thereof when it comes to my reads at all times – if you think that it's more likely that i'm "setting myself up to have a read proven wrong" when nk15 has literally only made one single post than that i'm just being clear about exactly what i think, i'm not really sure what to say. being clear about the lack of strength of a read isn't "downplaying".
In post 155, Porkens wrote:Ok well agree to disagree I think that’s the definition of downplaying.
In post 156, northsidegal wrote:if you have a read that isn't very strong and you make that clear, what would you call that?
In post 157, Porkens wrote:Downplaying
In post 158, northsidegal wrote:okay, i guess we just have a different understanding of that word. to me saying something is "downplaying" has a pretty intrinsic negative connotation of something being bad and you attempting to make it look less bad, when i guess you don't think that's the case.


I don't know is this like ever scum theater

it's just such a stupid thing to fight over

I feel like scum buddies would be more aware of how just like, dumb the fight is
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Post Post #2139 (isolation #297) » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:48 am

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2136, Enchant wrote:Kitty flipped.
how did that impact your reads
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Post Post #2140 (isolation #298) » Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:38 am

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2127, Enchant wrote:I will be reluctant to vote Dann anyway. NK seems to be tunneled.

... Which fairly could cost us game if both NM and Dann are town.
if you believe this can you like, explain why
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Post Post #2156 (isolation #299) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:47 pm

Post by Dannflor »

god
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Post Post #2157 (isolation #300) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:48 pm

Post by Dannflor »

please do not lol vote me if you're town NM

I will give this some attention later tonight or tomorrow
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Post Post #2158 (isolation #301) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:49 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2153, kitten around wrote:I don’t think it’s NM so maybe I’m wrong on Dann?
what exactly about NM has you feeling this way?
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Post Post #2162 (isolation #302) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:05 pm

Post by Dannflor »

kitten if I was scum I would just tell you what you wanted to hear all game and never once consider you as scum

but I don't actually know your alignment so I have to be careful

I don't know why you think I'd try to frame you when NM is very likely to just vote me at the start of the phase
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Post Post #2165 (isolation #303) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:07 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2161, kitten around wrote:
In post 2157, Dannflor wrote:please do not lol vote me if you're town NM

I will give this some attention later tonight or tomorrow
NM lolhammers not lolvotes generally. It’s not me Dann and the fact that you can’t tell that is concerning me. Why are you not asking me not to vote you?
NM has vote parked me for the last 2 phases or so

I right now think it is more likely that you are town but I'm not ready to make that decision yet because it's fucking F3 and I've fucked up in this exact position locking you as town wrongly before

so forgive me if I need a little time

and I was asking NM not to vote me because chances are he votes me in his first post here

which is fine if he's scum but there is an off chance he's town
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Post Post #2167 (isolation #304) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:08 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2159, kitten around wrote:Well I know it’s not me and I don’t know why NM kills Porkens?
why would I kill Porkens? yeah yeah WIFOM or whatever but it's like almost always better to just take the more favorable F3 because people usually aren't all that likely to change their reads
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Post Post #2169 (isolation #305) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:12 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2163, kitten around wrote:Dann how do you not have any thoughts wrt to who you think is more likely to be scum here? All is NM don’t vote you. Have you no other thoughts?
I literally said I would get to this later because I'm busy right now. I shouldn't be posting right now but I am anyway because I'm addicted to mafia I guess.

kitten, if you're town you are letting paranoia run away with you. which I get, I've been paranoid of your slot several times this game

but you need to slow down a little bit I think

I think if I was scum here and wanted a slam dunk win I would just hard lock you as town and vote NM

as of right now my gut is still to vote NM but I'm not going to do that yet
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Post Post #2170 (isolation #306) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:16 pm

Post by Dannflor »

like my little bit of doubt with you right now is that it's almost incredible to me that you have strong enough reasons to town read NM that you would scum read me

and like, your reasons are very circular and WIFOMy in that you can just apply them to me and get the same answer.
In post 2160, kitten around wrote:Also he was right about you not posting, so yeah I think it’s more likely to be you than NM but I want to hear from him first before I vote because in case it is NM fooling me, I don’t want the dead thread screaming at me post game.

So I want to hear your cases for why you’re both town and the other is scum, to help me make up my mind.
although posts like this make me think that just stems from paranoia about not wanting to be wrong. Which annoys me but I get, I've paranoia'd you a lot this game and I'm sure it's frustrating if you feel you've been obv town. I think it's likely you are just afraid of being wrong if you're referencing the dead thread. I feel that pressure too

but also I can't really answer to that

but I'm not scum just because you are afraid of me being scum
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Post Post #2173 (isolation #307) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:18 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I had made it pretty abundantly clear that Porkens was my top town read and I don't think NM scum read Porkens either

so I don't really think either you or NM could've brought him to F3
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Post Post #2175 (isolation #308) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:22 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2160, kitten around wrote:Also he was right about you not posting, so yeah I think it’s more likely to be you than NM but I want to hear from him first before I vote because in case it is NM fooling me, I don’t want the dead thread screaming at me post game.

So I want to hear your cases for why you’re both town and the other is scum, to help me make up my mind.
also regarding this I wish people would not insinuate I was intentionally lurking?? I generally would not do that as either alignment because again I am addicted to mafia, it was literally just a holiday weekend here in the US and it happened to be very busy for me, I announced my V/LA way ahead of time. I think it would be really scummy (in the real life scummy type of way) to use an Out of Game Influence in order to intentionally lurk so I really wish people would stop insinuating I was trying to do that?
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Post Post #2177 (isolation #309) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:32 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2174, kitten around wrote:So tell me, why should I think it’s NM, not you?

If I can confidently townread either of you, this will become a helluva lot easier.
from my point of view:
1. I'm not sure why I'd ever choose an F3 with an NM who has been tunneling me for 3 day phases, especially when there is a Porkens/kitten F3 sitting right there
2. Kitty was like shitpushing me all through days like 1-4 even through NSG dying and only dropped the scum read for a weird pockety town read to support the elimination I was pushing on town
3. like almost every night killed townie has thought I was town. Penguin thought I was town, BEAR thought I was town, Roden thought I was town. Porkens went back and forth on me but I think he still generally thought I was town?
4. I was one of the main driving forces behind both kitty and nsg dying? with kitty in particular it was my swap to kitty that caused his death, I think there was a good chance NM dies instead if that doesn't happen which would obviously be way more favorable for me if I was scum here. Just in general the way both flipped scum have treated me is like... not how scum handles buddies
5. I would not be aggravating you as scum tbh. kitten, I know you very well. We've played together a lot. I know you are suspicious when people don't read you accurately. Why would I as scum cause you to be suspicious of me? Especially when NM is likely to just vote me? I would be aggroing the person who needs to town read me for no reason

anyway I really really hope that this is just NM because I think regardless of his alignment he's going to come in and vote me here
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Post Post #2178 (isolation #310) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:32 pm

Post by Dannflor »

okay I just have one question for you kitten

what specifically are your obv town tells this game?
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Post Post #2181 (isolation #311) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:41 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2024, KittyTacky wrote:KittyTacky - I'm town.
Dannflor - Town. Generally been solvy, shading of me seems uninformed (both of my meta and of this game). I think the Junko push also seemed uninformed.
kitten around - Town. Activity around Junko seemed TvT honestly, I doubt scum would react so explosively to an attack and attract unneeded attention to themselves.
PenguinPower - Null. Didn't do anything outrageously scummy this game but he's just kinda there which I thiiiink is NAI for PP?
Enchant - Null. I can't read Enchant. Sorry.
Porkens - Scum lean. I still don't like this, was just a bit hesitant to vote them yesterday.
Not_Mafia - Scum. I reread the game today, I don't think this is town NM, NM contrary to popular belief actually plays to win as town and here he's just... there. I retract my "scapecow" comment, he really reads like bored/demoralized/dissociated scum from the tone of his posts. Lim this.
I guess I keep coming back to this

the town read on you looks more pockety than anything else. It's very similar to the read on me. Very vague phrases ascribing towniness without much specifics. Granted, Kitty doesn't go into specifics with any of his reads, but his longest and most detailed read is NM. I don't remember who said it, maybe RC, but I remember somewhere reading that if scum have one read that they ascribe a ton more words to it's usually likely to be a scum buddy. Because scum are hyper aware of how they are reading their buddies and want to make extra sure it looks "real"

also, from a gamestate perspective, I think it is likely that with NM and Kitty being the top two wagons of that day, it is very likely they'd bus each other.

a caught scumteam will push each other down to stay afloat
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Post Post #2183 (isolation #312) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:42 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2180, kitten around wrote:Well my answer to that, is that scum!Roden did try to provoke me in a previous game.
I think provoking you might be a useful strategy for scum on like D1

not in F3 where scum needs you to town read them?
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Post Post #2184 (isolation #313) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:43 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2182, kitten around wrote:Do you think he can fake that as scum?
...yes

I don't know NM has scum read me for ??? reasons for like 3 days now and always found another wagon to hammer despite me being his top scum read

I am doubting that it's real
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Post Post #2186 (isolation #314) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:45 pm

Post by Dannflor »

early interactions between Gamma and NSG strike me as like

weird for a bus

Gamma seems genuinely upset that me and NSG would be voting her
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Post Post #2188 (isolation #315) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:49 pm

Post by Dannflor »

gamma unprompted early roleblocker claim seems

like very weird scum play if it's scum play
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Post Post #2189 (isolation #316) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:50 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2182, kitten around wrote:I don’t think I can answer without getting into trouble for trust telling but I just don’t ever play like this as scum. I’ve been earnestly solving, having convictions in my reads and just read my games, because I think it’s beyond obvious I’m town here and it pings me somewhat if you can’t see that.
okay, thank you

that actually helps somewhat
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Post Post #2191 (isolation #317) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:51 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I don't know NM

I thought at first I could twist my head and actually see your reasons for scum reading me but I have trouble seeing how you as town justified hammering three slots in a row while i was your top scum read

there wasn't even any particular type of trying to persuade people to vote me instead

it feels not real
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Post Post #2192 (isolation #318) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:53 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1248, Gamma Emerald wrote:my reason for thinking nsg and junko aren't paired is that if nsg did think it was safe to disengage at the end of the day yesterday it means no scumbuddies were at risk, so junko can't be a partner
this was actually a good read :(
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Post Post #2193 (isolation #319) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:55 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 102, KittyTacky wrote:Gamma Emerald is being weird but I'm not sure if that's scummy or just being NAI weird.
In post 258, KittyTacky wrote:
In post 151, Porkens wrote:Yeah gamma is scummy.
Still not seeing it.
In post 259, KittyTacky wrote:
In post 159, Dannflor wrote:i have a scum read on porkens

it is medium strong
Me too NGL, the Gamma case feels a little forced. Intent to vote once I finish my backread.
In post 264, KittyTacky wrote:
In post 263, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Kitty talk to me about Porkens when you're done reading, I haven't quite landed on an opinion there
The case on Gamma gave me terrible vibes. Then they suddenly jumped off despite seeming pretty convinced.
In post 815, KittyTacky wrote:I still think Gamma is probably town.
In post 980, KittyTacky wrote:Was re-reading the game. Pretty sure Porkens is scum, esp by the interactions with Gamma.
VOTE: Porkens
In post 1110, KittyTacky wrote:
In post 1105, JohnnyFarrar wrote:
In post 1102, Dannflor wrote:
In post 1044, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Also I'm not gonna vote Gamma today barring something wild
Johnny can you elaborate on this like you elaborated on your read of me that one time
The two things that jump to mind when thinking about Gamma's position in this game are

1) The way their wagon rose and fell yesterday feels natural to me

2) I don't think scum hears whoever say "yeah scum prolly tried for Bear's role and didn't get it" and goes YEAH I DID THAT out loud in the thread
And I agree with this, Gamma is nearly locktown for me.
In post 1420, KittyTacky wrote:
In post 1350, Dannflor wrote:like Porkens made this huge big splash for what reason

what was it prompted by

it's such an unintuitive gambit if scum because like he was never in danger!! I know scum like to be nonsensical and shit and you shouldn't read scum by what they would "intellectually do"

but I have found generally town are likely to crack under little to no pressure way more often than scum who try extra hard to seem cool and unbothered
I just think his bad case on Gamma and the gross reaction to being pushed outweigh the strange claim.
this feels like a WK response to an early wagon on town

I don't think it's natural or intuitive at all for scum to persistently and defiantly town read a buddy in this way

it reads like wanting cred for after Gamma flips
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Post Post #2195 (isolation #320) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:57 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1965, KittyTacky wrote:The rapid wagon on NM is just... idk. He usually tends to be the scape
goat
cow.
In post 2024, KittyTacky wrote:
In post 2015, Dannflor wrote: Kitty, can you explain where and how you went from scum reading me to town reading me? who do you actually think is scum right now? I don't remember you pushing anyone yesterday until there was a fire going on between me and Junko
Somewhere around D2-D3, when your weird behavior around me and Gamma stopped and you seemed very solvy, which I think is town. And I didn't vote because the game was pretty much going nowhere and in those situations I don't know what to do especially as town.

My reads list:
KittyTacky - I'm town.
Dannflor - Town. Generally been solvy, shading of me seems uninformed (both of my meta and of this game). I think the Junko push also seemed uninformed.
kitten around - Town. Activity around Junko seemed TvT honestly, I doubt scum would react so explosively to an attack and attract unneeded attention to themselves.
PenguinPower - Null. Didn't do anything outrageously scummy this game but he's just kinda there which I thiiiink is NAI for PP?
Enchant - Null. I can't read Enchant. Sorry.
Porkens - Scum lean. I still don't like this, was just a bit hesitant to vote them yesterday.
Not_Mafia - Scum. I reread the game today, I don't think this is town NM, NM contrary to popular belief actually plays to win as town and here he's just... there. I retract my "scapecow" comment, he really reads like bored/demoralized/dissociated scum from the tone of his posts. Lim this.

VOTE: Not_Mafia
this progression

idk it's possible I'm hardcore confbiasing right now but it looks so much like a "bus to stay afloat" type progression
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Post Post #2197 (isolation #321) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:59 pm

Post by Dannflor »

okay
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Post Post #2198 (isolation #322) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:59 pm

Post by Dannflor »

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Post Post #2199 (isolation #323) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:59 pm

Post by Dannflor »

Do you know how much I hate F3s
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Post Post #2201 (isolation #324) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:01 pm

Post by Dannflor »

it's the "idk about NM's wagon he tends to be a scapegoat"

to "NM IS HARD SCUM KILL HIM" in 50 posts that feels... manufactured
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Post Post #2204 (isolation #325) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:08 pm

Post by Dannflor »

okay

VOTE: not_mafia

I literally don't think I'm ever going to be able to get a different read than this

and if I'm wrong I'd prefer it just end now
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Post Post #2209 (isolation #326) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:15 pm

Post by Dannflor »

so much tension just went out of my body oh my god
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Post Post #2211 (isolation #327) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:23 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2206, kitten around wrote:
In post 2204, Dannflor wrote:okay

VOTE: not_mafia

I literally don't think I'm ever going to be able to get a different read than this

and if I'm wrong I'd prefer it just end now
I think it’s probably nm but would still like him to post but leaning to vote him rn. Sorry if it’s frustrating to you but I just really need to be sure.
not frustrating

I just needed to stop being anxious about this game

at least now I can go to bed knowing I was right
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Post Post #2212 (isolation #328) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:24 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I think it's worth noting btw that Penguin Power didn't need to be night killed when he did. I mean he was conf town but he could've been night killed at any time before F3

the fact is he was town reading me and pushing NM shortly before he died
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Post Post #2247 (isolation #329) » Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:30 am

Post by Dannflor »

gg everyone

thanks for modding pooky

shoutout to kitty and NSG/Starpower
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Post Post #2255 (isolation #330) » Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:03 pm

Post by Dannflor »

You played really well kitty it was a blast :]
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