Open 867: PYP: SEFD - Game Over !

[kitten around]

Well I know it’s not me and I don’t know why NM kills Porkens?

why would I kill Porkens? yeah yeah WIFOM or whatever but it's like almost always better to just take the more favorable F3 because people usually aren't all that likely to change their reads

Well I did expect it to be NM or me. So that obviously didn’t happen which is probably good because I would have probably voted Porkens and we would have lost.

Because I thought he sounded similar here to Trees.

[kitten around]

Dann how do you not have any thoughts wrt to who you think is more likely to be scum here? All is NM don’t vote you. Have you no other thoughts?

I literally said I would get to this later because I'm busy right now. I shouldn't be posting right now but I am anyway because I'm addicted to mafia I guess.

kitten, if you're town you are letting paranoia run away with you. which I get, I've been paranoid of your slot several times this game

but you need to slow down a little bit I think

I think if I was scum here and wanted a slam dunk win I would just hard lock you as town and vote NM

as of right now my gut is still to vote NM but I'm not going to do that yet

Yeah I am paranoid but I don’t want to vote unless I feel confident - one way or the other and I’ve been wrong on both of you before.

[kitten around]

like my little bit of doubt with you right now is that it's almost incredible to me that you have strong enough reasons to town read NM that you would scum read me

and like, your reasons are very circular and WIFOMy in that you can just apply them to me and get the same answer.

Also he was right about you not posting, so yeah I think it’s more likely to be you than NM but I want to hear from him first before I vote because in case it is NM fooling me, I don’t want the dead thread screaming at me post game.

So I want to hear your cases for why you’re both town and the other is scum, to help me make up my mind.

although posts like this make me think that just stems from paranoia about not wanting to be wrong. Which annoys me but I get, I've paranoia'd you a lot this game and I'm sure it's frustrating if you feel you've been obv town. I think it's likely you are just afraid of being wrong if you're referencing the dead thread. I feel that pressure too

but also I can't really answer to that

but I'm not scum just because you are afraid of me being scum

I did wonder about the whole trolling thing. Like NM claiming to confuse me with Kitty but that’s probably neither here nor there.

So tell me, why should I think it’s NM, not you?

If I can confidently townread either of you, this will become a helluva lot easier.

[kitten around]

I had made it pretty abundantly clear that Porkens was my top town read and I don't think NM scum read Porkens either

so I don't really think either you or NM could've brought him to F3

Why wouldn’t NM have brought Porkens to F3?

I think that would be a pretty easy miselim for scum!NM either way?

[kitten around]

Also he was right about you not posting, so yeah I think it’s more likely to be you than NM but I want to hear from him first before I vote because in case it is NM fooling me, I don’t want the dead thread screaming at me post game.

So I want to hear your cases for why you’re both town and the other is scum, to help me make up my mind.

also regarding this I wish people would not insinuate I was intentionally lurking?? I generally would not do that as either alignment because again I am addicted to mafia, it was literally just a holiday weekend here in the US and it happened to be very busy for me, I announced my V/LA way ahead of time. I think it would be really scummy (in the real life scummy type of way) to use an Out of Game Influence in order to intentionally lurk so I really wish people would stop insinuating I was trying to do that?

Dann, this doesn’t really answer my question. Why should I tr you more than NM?

[kitten around]

So tell me, why should I think it’s NM, not you?

If I can confidently townread either of you, this will become a helluva lot easier.

from my point of view:
1. I'm not sure why I'd ever choose an F3 with an NM who has been tunneling me for 3 day phases, especially when there is a Porkens/kitten F3 sitting right there
2. Kitty was like shitpushing me all through days like 1-4 even through NSG dying and only dropped the scum read for a weird pockety town read to support the elimination I was pushing on town
3. like almost every night killed townie has thought I was town. Penguin thought I was town, BEAR thought I was town, Roden thought I was town. Porkens went back and forth on me but I think he still generally thought I was town?
4. I was one of the main driving forces behind both kitty and nsg dying? with kitty in particular it was my swap to kitty that caused his death, I think there was a good chance NM dies instead if that doesn't happen which would obviously be way more favorable for me if I was scum here. Just in general the way both flipped scum have treated me is like... not how scum handles buddies
5. I would not be aggravating you as scum tbh. kitten, I know you very well. We've played together a lot. I know you are suspicious when people don't read you accurately. Why would I as scum cause you to be suspicious of me? Especially when NM is likely to just vote me? I would be aggroing the person who needs to town read me for no reason

anyway I really really hope that this is just NM because I think regardless of his alignment he's going to come in and vote me here

If you can provide any links or quotes, that would be super helpful. Well my answer to that, is that scum!Roden did try to provoke me in a previous game. It’s true scum!you is far more likely to pocket me. Idk Dann, I’m just really afraid to get this wrong.

[kitten around]

okay I just have one question for you kitten

what specifically are your obv town tells this game?

I don’t think I can answer without getting into trouble for trust telling but I just don’t ever play like this as scum. I’ve been earnestly solving, having convictions in my reads and just read my games, because I think it’s beyond obvious I’m town here and it pings me somewhat if you can’t see that.

You did say you would get there in correctly reading me, which is one of the reasons I tr you but NM seemed to be quite convinced it was you. Do you think he can fake that as scum?

[kitten around]

KittyTacky - I'm town.
Dannflor - Town. Generally been solvy, shading of me seems uninformed (both of my meta and of this game). I think the Junko push also seemed uninformed.
kitten around - Town. Activity around Junko seemed TvT honestly, I doubt scum would react so explosively to an attack and attract unneeded attention to themselves.
PenguinPower - Null. Didn't do anything outrageously scummy this game but he's just kinda there which I thiiiink is NAI for PP?
Enchant - Null. I can't read Enchant. Sorry.
Porkens - Scum lean. I still don't like this, was just a bit hesitant to vote them yesterday.
Not_Mafia - Scum. I reread the game today, I don't think this is town NM, NM contrary to popular belief actually plays to win as town and here he's just... there. I retract my "scapecow" comment, he really reads like bored/demoralized/dissociated scum from the tone of his posts. Lim this.

I guess I keep coming back to this

the town read on you looks more pockety than anything else. It's very similar to the read on me. Very vague phrases ascribing towniness without much specifics. Granted, Kitty doesn't go into specifics with any of his reads, but his longest and most detailed read is NM. I don't remember who said it, maybe RC, but I remember somewhere reading that if scum have one read that they ascribe a ton more words to it's usually likely to be a scum buddy. Because scum are hyper aware of how they are reading their buddies and want to make extra sure it looks "real"

also, from a gamestate perspective, I think it is likely that with NM and Kitty being the top two wagons of that day, it is very likely they'd bus each other.

a caught scumteam will push each other down to stay afloat

That’s a very good point actually. Kitty’s push on NM could definitely look like bussing.

It could be NM.

[kitten around]

Well my answer to that, is that scum!Roden did try to provoke me in a previous game.

I think provoking you might be a useful strategy for scum on like D1

not in F3 where scum needs you to town read them?

Well scum!Roden did that to me in an F3 as well or rather he was pushing the other townie and waffling on me, then the other townie voted me, than Roden hammered.

[kitten around]

early interactions between Gamma and NSG strike me as like

weird for a bus

Gamma seems genuinely upset that me and NSG would be voting her

I really hope you’re town here because I initially was leaning you over NM and now I’ve got that reversed. If I solely went by gut, I’d say I like your tone better than NM’s and why did he hamler Enchant if he was so convinced it was you? Why didn’t he fight for that read?

[kitten around]

I don't know NM

I thought at first I could twist my head and actually see your reasons for scum reading me but I have trouble seeing how you as town justified hammering three slots in a row while i was your top scum read

there wasn't even any particular type of trying to persuade people to vote me instead

it feels not real

Yeah, if I was as extremely confident on you!scum as he seemed to be, I would have hardpushed that read if it were me. I’m going to wait for NM but as town you don’t ever want to intentionally miselim and he never even tried to change either Porkens’ or my mind on Enchant, which would of course be fine if he wasn’t hardpushing you.

[kitten around]

my reason for thinking nsg and junko aren't paired is that if nsg did think it was safe to disengage at the end of the day yesterday it means no scumbuddies were at risk, so junko can't be a partner

this was actually a good read

He correctly read both Enchant and Junko.

[kitten around]

The rapid wagon on NM is just... idk. He usually tends to be the scape

goat

cow.

Kitty, can you explain where and how you went from scum reading me to town reading me? who do you actually think is scum right now? I don't remember you pushing anyone yesterday until there was a fire going on between me and Junko

Somewhere around D2-D3, when your weird behavior around me and Gamma stopped and you seemed very solvy, which I think is town. And I didn't vote because the game was pretty much going nowhere and in those situations I don't know what to do especially as town.

My reads list:
KittyTacky - I'm town.
Dannflor - Town. Generally been solvy, shading of me seems uninformed (both of my meta and of this game). I think the Junko push also seemed uninformed.
kitten around - Town. Activity around Junko seemed TvT honestly, I doubt scum would react so explosively to an attack and attract unneeded attention to themselves.
PenguinPower - Null. Didn't do anything outrageously scummy this game but he's just kinda there which I thiiiink is NAI for PP?
Enchant - Null. I can't read Enchant. Sorry.
Porkens - Scum lean. I still don't like this, was just a bit hesitant to vote them yesterday.
Not_Mafia - Scum. I reread the game today, I don't think this is town NM, NM contrary to popular belief actually plays to win as town and here he's just... there. I retract my "scapecow" comment, he really reads like bored/demoralized/dissociated scum from the tone of his posts. Lim this.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

this progression

idk it's possible I'm hardcore confbiasing right now but it looks so much like a "bus to stay afloat" type progression

Yeah, it could look like scum distancing and Kitty’s role was more important, so scum in general would prefer to bus their least important role.

[kitten around]

Do you know how much I hate F3s

I was seriously hoping to get a “you have died” pm but trust me to hopefully get this right. In a past game I was in F3 with scum!Hopkirk and town!Pooky alt. Hopkirk had thoroughly pocketed me but town!Pooky alt, eventually got me to see reason and we won.

[kitten around]

There’s a serious non rvs wagon on gamma.

Do you support it or not?
If you do, why not join it?
If you don’t, what’s the motive behind posting this?

this is like the towniest post I think you've made but I'm also wondering if you're partners

We have played together Johnny! (And yes, to be clear, I am an alt, here to explore different ways of playing as far as the eye can see)

Sorry Dann. I know catch-up content is a lot different than current content from the perspective of trying to form a read on my slot. Reading like this is definitely what will help me get to a place where I can feel confident solving the game though, and I figured some content as I went was better than none. Maybe I'll compile it all into one post and post it when I'm done?

I think starting with Day 2 would just confuse me, sorry. But I'll try to give more current commentary!

Neither nsg nor Star ever say anything about NM. And I think these posts look antipartnery for you.

[kitten around]

but 1301 moreso.

[kitten around]

okay

VOTE: not_mafia

I literally don't think I'm ever going to be able to get a different read than this

and if I'm wrong I'd prefer it just end now

I think it’s probably nm but would still like him to post but leaning to vote him rn. Sorry if it’s frustrating to you but I just really need to be sure.

[kitten around]

Kitty why are you alive

Scum might be trying to frame me as scum JK?

This again sounds antipartnery.

[kitten around]

God I hate this but if I’m wrong and I didn’t even wait for NM to post, I will be really upset with myself.

[kitten around]

I do think it’s probably him. You sound really genuine. I just have enough slight paranoia that I need to wait.

[kitten around]

Penguin what do you think of Dannflor?

idk what to think

i think we should have yeeted you and i don't like your hammer yesterday but also that's you...

Not_Mafia - Scum. I reread the game today, I don't think this is town NM, NM contrary to popular belief actually plays to win as town and here he's just... there. I retract my "scapecow" comment, he really reads like bored/demoralized/dissociated scum from the tone of his posts. Lim this.

If you re-read the game today, then how did you forget I was cop cleared?

NM, convince me it’s Dann and not you because rn, I think everything most likely points to it being you.

[kitten around]

dannflor's reaction is yuk, immediately starts throwing out random accusations and over-explaining random things unprompted

Go read the posts leading up to this, shameless scum posting

I read those posts, why are they scummy?

[kitten around]

Has everyone claimed roles and draft choices?

Gamma drafted rb but got vt. Don’t know why this is even relevant atp?

I mean if I were scum here, you’d already be hammered. Don’t remember what Dann drafted but I think he got vt.

[kitten around]

Obviously claims are relevant whatchu talking bout Willis

Why? If I were scum here, the game would already be over and you didn’t even want to claim initially.

[kitten around]

oh

i went for tracker but didn't get it

I don’t see how any of this helps you at all NM and you haven’t addressed any of either mine or Dann’s points. I also think you sound differently than Schadd’s game here. I don’t believe why you think asking for claims means anything at elo.

[kitten around]

I think it should be beyond obvious to you now NM that I have to be town and you asking for everyone’s role claims and not just Dann’s is hella weird. It think it’s highly suss that unlike Dann you’ve had no reaction whatsoever to my not hammering either one of you because I could easily have won the game with either.

So, I think it’s just probably you because claims are irrelevant at this point I think your reaction is just plain weird.

[kitten around]

dannflor's reaction is yuk, immediately starts throwing out random accusations and over-explaining random things unprompted

Go read the posts leading up to this, shameless scum posting

Pointless rambling, quantity over quality, fake commentary on how unsure and torn he is an blah blah blah

These don’t look like real thoughts.

[kitten around]

VOTE: Not Mafia

If this is wrong, then Dann deserves this anyway.

*prays*

I don’t think things will get any clearer than they are right now.

[kitten around]

Not_Mafia was yeeted on Day Six! He was a

Vanilla Townie

.!

kitten around was endgamed - she was a Vanilla Townie!

Congratulations to the Mafia Team of Dannflor, KittyTacky, and Star Power for winning Open 867 PYP: SEFD!

God, I can never read Dann. Sorry NM.

[kitten around]

can someone not even case but just give me like the bulletpoints on dann scum, i'm waiting on a lot of content from him but don't really feel as though that warrants a vote yet

This kind of reads like scum who doesn’t want to look bad for miseliming a townie.

Bizarre to me, how Junko viewed that as any kind of associative.

I don’t think this is how scum treats a buddy.

Oh here it is

Okay, I feel really dumb but when NM started asking for role claims when it was clear that I obviously couldn’t be scum, it just pinged me.

This is probably Dann’s best scumgame to date. He really fooled me. :/

[kitten around]

Good luck on those alt redacts spookly

+1

Please do that Pooky,

Thanks for hosting. Sorry town.

[kitten around]

I really wish you didn't overreact to it

I do apologize for the alt thing, but i was already pissed off by that point

I wasn’t. Numerous times I seriously considered replacing out because of how you were interacting with me.

[kitten around]

Subject: PYP Spec Chat

Also NM obviously trolls you

You’re saying he’s trolling me with the Kitty thing? I honestly can’t say I’ve ever been trolled by him before.

Oof, ok she might be scum after all. NM hard trolled her in a game a few months back, Enchant and I were both in that game. It's an unnecessary lie as town, and I doubt she would've forgotten about it either since I remember it really upset her at the time. I wonder if NM and Enchant remember and if they'll bring it up.

I have no clue what you’re referring to here Roden? Please refresh my memory.

I’m gobsmacked that so many people thought it was me until I didn’t hammer. I was beyond bleeding obvtown here. Dann’s scumgame has gotten so good if this is any indication, I don’t know if I’ll ever feel confident in tr after this game.

[kitten around]

Subject: PYP Spec Chat

Also NM obviously trolls you

You’re saying he’s trolling me with the Kitty thing? I honestly can’t say I’ve ever been trolled by him before.

Oof, ok she might be scum after all. NM hard trolled her in a game a few months back, Enchant and I were both in that game. It's an unnecessary lie as town, and I doubt she would've forgotten about it either since I remember it really upset her at the time. I wonder if NM and Enchant remember and if they'll bring it up.

I have no clue what you’re referring to here Roden? Please refresh my memory.

I’m gobsmacked that so many people thought it was me until I didn’t hammer. I was beyond bleeding obvtown here. Dann’s scumgame has gotten so good if this is any indication, I don’t know if I’ll ever feel confident in tr after this game.

Actually I think I remember now but NM didn’t actually troll me, he deathtunnelled me because he wrongly sr either my opening or second post.

Roden, I don’t lie about shit like that as any alignment. I thought NM seemed more sincere in that game. It seemed no one in the dead thread but Junko thought it was Dann, so I wasn’t the only one fooled.

[kitten around]

GG all, in retrospect I made a few missteps but oh well, I set up NM and Enchant to look very bad (on Dann's coaching but still).

I should have realized that you suddenly hardpushing NM like you did wasn’t a bus but a blatantly obvious attempt to save your scumbuddy Dann.

[kitten around]

Subject: PYP Spec Chat

Also NM obviously trolls you

You’re saying he’s trolling me with the Kitty thing? I honestly can’t say I’ve ever been trolled by him before.

Oof, ok she might be scum after all. NM hard trolled her in a game a few months back, Enchant and I were both in that game. It's an unnecessary lie as town, and I doubt she would've forgotten about it either since I remember it really upset her at the time. I wonder if NM and Enchant remember and if they'll bring it up.

I have no clue what you’re referring to here Roden? Please refresh my memory.

I’m gobsmacked that so many people thought it was me until I didn’t hammer. I was beyond bleeding obvtown here. Dann’s scumgame has gotten so good if this is any indication, I don’t know if I’ll ever feel confident in tr after this game.

Actually I think I remember now but NM didn’t actually troll me, he deathtunnelled me because he wrongly sr either my opening or second post.

Roden, I don’t lie about shit like that as any alignment. I thought NM seemed more sincere in that game. It seemed no one in the dead thread but Junko thought it was Dann, so I wasn’t the only one fooled.

Didn't think you'd just forgotten about it tbh.

It didn’t make sense what you posted because NM was dead serious with that tunnel. He was wrongly convinced I was scum, so no, not a troll.

[kitten around]

I should have shot Dann like I wanted to

+1

When in doubt, shoot Dann.