Open 871 - The Haunted Village | Postgame

[Gimli]

Hiiiii I'm drunk and at a party and town and have no battery left

Kinda want Wednesday Addams to be a wolf and to pocket and make a fool of me

Glad to be playing with y'all

[Gimli]

Hi Wednesday

[Gimli]

Hi

I wanna townread both furtive and huyuhiko

[Gimli]

And std

[Gimli]

I want to go to a party

I'll invite you to the next one

[Gimli]

VOTE: Gimli
I don't want any untoward behavior from you. You be careful what you do around Wednesday.

That's perfect roleplay

[Gimli]

Hi

I wanna townread both furtive and huyuhiko

Wishful, wistful, whimsical

I'm actually townreading you both but maybe when sober I'll explain why (or retract it)

[Gimli]

VOTE: kyoko kirigir

Hiiiiiiiiii

[Gimli]

Missed an I

Gonna do something else now bye

[Gimli]

Good work

What are the Wednesday jokes?

[Gimli]

VOTE: Save The Dragon

Found mafia already only took 1 page.

Why is std scummy

[Gimli]

Good work

What are the Wednesday jokes?

I don't exactly know but it's a bit 'sus'.

Really? Why

That's weird I wanna townread you instead of dealing with your weird stances

[Gimli]

I will hard defend std the entire gameday so gl pushing him

[Gimli]

I just meant you seemed thirsty for a fictional character, nothing else to it

'sus' means something about alignments, doesn't it?

Have you seen Wednesday? It's really good

[Gimli]

All scum in the nonposters mafia is easy

[Gimli]

Townleaning kyoko and saihara for last posts, but I'm not convinced there's anything wrong with the way biancospino tried to make sense of early posts.

One clarification on fuyuhiko's vote is that the character is a major white knight so the vote was roleplaying that, I presume, and falls under what you call RVS.

[Gimli]

Townleaning kyoko and saihara for last posts, but I'm not convinced there's anything wrong with the way biancospino tried to make sense of early posts.

One clarification on fuyuhiko's vote is that the character is a major white knight so the vote was roleplaying that, I presume, and falls under what you call RVS.

I just realized they're talking about another fuyuhiko vote, so disregard my last post

[Gimli]

Hello Penguin

Want to expand on your biancospino vote?

[Gimli]

@bianco what do you think of the people sussing you?

[Gimli]

Any thoughts on any players in any way that's AI?

[Gimli]

Thats the best take possible it feels @saihara

I do think Bianco comes out of that exchange as a likely town, just on having the correct emotions and whatnot while being pressured

[Gimli]

Agree with std on bianco

I'm gonna townread STD as well which probably means he is scum

Wrt kyoko I think her evaluation is fine, overly nitpicky is good early as it gets the game going and whatnot

[Gimli]

...

Is there something on your mind now?

[Gimli]

Can someone explain Not Mafia's list to me? I have my assumptions about who is who but am not sure.

I wanna be Sandra bollocks

[Gimli]

VOTE: Wednesday Addams

[Gimli]

VOTE: Wednesday Addams

I know it's a bit of a reach but I think the scummiest thing in the game has been Wednesday posting a 'first' and then disappearing from the game for the next like 19 hours

Doesn't help that all I see in front of me are nulltown or townreads. Kyoko's posting is what I expect, STD has been sharp which is good to see, furtive actually reading the introduction posts and making mech spec that's useful for town is probably very towny of him, bianco's response to pressure has been good and everyone else is at least sensible. So >rand scum in the people not posting? Maybe.

[Gimli]

Vote + thoughts all look a bit surface level and conclusion of >rand scum in non-posters is non-confrontational in a way

VOTE: Gimli

Locktown

[Gimli]

All pushes on me are towny

Mafia too hard

VOTE: kokichi

[Gimli]

Im so non confrontational I'm gonna townread everyone that wants me dead apparently

[Gimli]

Yes

[Gimli]

Which means you randomly guessed I was scum in temple and now you can't stop you won't stop

I should post less crap though, just happy to be playing is all

[Gimli]

Temple game was more about your predecessor, but I mean that your tone here is similar to there

I'm the same guy and that's like my tone. Wanna talk about temple game for a quick second? I replaced into a nightless nightmare with scum team practically conceding in scumchat. I put my funny hat and tried to have fun in it, I didn't have a plan or really tried swinging votes in another direction. Here I might be spamming nonsense just the same but I'm working the game as I do it. Also this is the first game I play from the start since my hiatus, the other 3 completed games I replaced in. More importantly, I want to win this particular game real bad, so I'm doing my thing.

Didn't mean to take a jab at you, I know the worst made himself obvious in that game though, and there was very little I could do to sway y'all from killing me.

[Gimli]

I don’t understand why you voted Kokichi

Kokichi made a weird post about STD being scummy, referencing a nothing post by STD on page 1 that I dont think he gets to read alignment wise. So I'm voting there, let's see what happens when kokichi returns

As to my play, I like doing this thing and it can be annoying but it can be good as well

[Gimli]

Fuyuhiko very towny, love the kaito read and agree kaito is playing safe which could be scum indicative

[Gimli]

Am I literally Sandra bollocks

[Gimli]

I'm the ultimate super duper shitposter

This seems like a post of someone who wants to fit into the game without being noticed, since a lot of us here are Ultimate characters here. But, I didn't really scumread it that much, I just knew if I made that post, we would get out of RVS quickly. And it looked like it worked!! Aren't I the greatest.

Keeping my vote on you

[Gimli]

I thought that was one of my best posts

[Gimli]

You're townreading me?

[Gimli]

So all my posts are trash???

[Gimli]

Can't wait for that wall

[Gimli]

None of my votes were RVS and none of my townreads went unexplained (hopefully)

Nice that you worked so hard in the thread, bianco. I disagree with much of it but maybe that's how you work the game out as town, and that's all good.

[Gimli]

Oh actually I did RVS vote kyoko

Youre giving people scum and town points for things that aren't AI.

[Gimli]

Furtive/fuyuhiko
Bianco
Kyoko

Nulltown: std, saihara, Wednesday

Rest are null

[Gimli]

Interesting that you vote me, yet I'm just in the null pile, especially when you reconfirmed that you'd be keeping your vote on me after that last post of mine. Care to explain?

That post was crap

[Gimli]

I agreed with bianco that kokichi's push on STD for throwing meta as if it mattered for that read was towny

[Gimli]

My post or your reads post? Or both? Either way, doesn't add up

Certainly both but I'm talking about yours. You throw a scumread cause of the ultimate joke std made and then act mysteriously around it as if it meant anything. Didn't feel like a real thought, but it doesn't matter much it's just a vote that didn't go some place else

[Gimli]

I'm consolidating my fuyuhiko townread
Saihara's drunk posting could come from town

Don't want to elaborate either rn

[Gimli]

Saihara's drunk posting could come from town

Huh?

I'm townreading it, sorry about the phrasing. I think it shows suspicious approach to the game that I associate with being town more than being mafia. Especially the part about how the players are lacking thread presence, something I'm feeling as well and it's making the game hard to read.

I'll stop posting crap or, at the very least, I'll make the crap I post more thoughtful.

[Gimli]

Kokichi stated to have a reason for a sr, and in fact did

Ok. I'll problematize his line of reasoning for the sake of it, as I don't think it particularly leads anywhere. Kokichi's read into the 'ultimate shitposter' opening by std is actually too farfetched for him to seriously believe someone else might sense the same thing, and while keeping it hidden might take the game out of RVS, explaining a scumread literally does that same thing and is a more direct and fair approach to mafia, I think.

SO we probably shouldn’t be sheeping Gimli then, got it or we might wind up poweryeeting Marashu or something.

Don't sheep me I'm terrible at mafia.

But what are you talking about? What is this in reference or responding to?

[Gimli]

I think your townread of kokichi fine and nuanced and +++town points for it, bianco.

Bianco/furtive/fuyuhiko is my preliminary towncore. Not much to work with how slow paced the game is so far.

[Gimli]

VOTE: kaito

[Gimli]

Kaito/Wednesday/std gg mafia is easy

Jk

But maybe

[Gimli]

I'm trying to make the game move in any direction, wed. Your extreme overreaction may be a good sign anyway.

As for my bad reads, do you disagree with my stronger townleans in furtive, bianco and fuyuhiko? If so, why?

Why are you townreading kaito? You've already outed your alt p much, you don't have to do it with kaito as well so can you explain why you're townreading his safe stances so far apart from meta?

As for STD, I won't say much other than announcing a hard defense on page 2 was a joke. Are you townreading std?

[Gimli]

I’m not townreading Kaito, I’m saying that based on my knowing who they are, this doesn’t look so far like what I’d expect from their scum meta.

In this case, I don't like how you're soft defending kaito so early based on nothing. If you're not townreading the slot then I don't see how my vote there (which at that point I didn't even explain) is seen as a particularly bad thing. As far as your reads go, I could as well be voting scum here, right?

[Gimli]

If you had any idea exactly how much I absolutely loathe fake solving, there would be no “maybe” about it.

Do you always trash your scum game like this? Your solving has been minimal up to this point in the gamethread and I have the hardest time imagining you can't fake it as scum.

If I'm townreading anything you're doing is more emotion based and whatnot. But I read something that I should keep in mind, in that game I rep'ed in as a wolf and tried to push you for overreaction: people called it NAI then, so maybe townreading you here is too precipitated.

[Gimli]

Yo Gimli, why isn’t Shuichi in your towncore?

Idk, but you are. Want me to take you off and put him instead?

Or why don't you make your own towncore and put Shuichi?

If he supposed to be strong townread by everyone? I mean I agree he is towny anyway, but maybe his towniest posts came after I posted here for the last time.

[Gimli]

Maki posts good posts

[Gimli]

Why are you omgusing me so much?

Also, you don't give a fuck who's scum?

I sometimes wanna townread you, wed, but some of your posting isn't sitting well with me. Furtive is right that you're basically scumreading your scumreads throughout D1, which means if you're town you're quite easily open to being manipulated and buddied.

[Gimli]

I'd rather not clutter the thread with this. Tentatively townreading you anyway,

my little deathtrap

[Gimli]

Lol dafuq? <3

I don't think you understood that I was never scumreading you, just trying to make sense of your play and poking at things I disliked in your posting.

@std okay

[Gimli]

I don’t know who the scum are in this game. Believe it or not, I don’t really gaf.

@std that's why I used the "don't give a fuck" line. As for the fuyuhiko interaction, I thought it was odd that he wanted me to townblock people instead of doing his own townblock, but whatever.

I am trying to post a little harder since people have disliked my crappier posting

[Gimli]

Let me a tentative towncore that's frankly too big to be correct.

Maki/kyoko/Wednesday/furtive/fuyuhiko/bianco/Shuichi

I think all those people are town. In before all scum in this, but whatever.

So we have kaito/std/kokichi/penguin/nm sort of ridiculous POE

Kokichi probably the towniest in this row.

VOTE: Penguin

Just potatoing this game so far, and they like big wagons so let's make one with him

[Gimli]

I sheeped furtive's vote on kaito actually

And neither of us is scumreading you, as it's impossible to do so since you spent D1 not saying anything. Not much of a sheep but making a wagon so you can talk something which, voila

[Gimli]

Good to see this game pumping.

My 2c on that whole browbeating thing: I'm not being harsh to anybody. I used the "you don't give a fuck line" in response to Wednesday saying she doesn't give a fuck, literally, in those terms. And if I was being harsh, maybe I understand STD finding it sus cause he only played with me being some sort of happy go lucky player (apart from some speficic parts of our neighborhood in pairs mafia), but I disagree with people thinking that's a decent take on my posting. And that's all I'm going to say.

While obviously not thrilled with either Bianco’s and Kyko’s reads on me, they actually sounded believable is obviously dead wrong, yours otoh I don’t really buy.

I find many of wed's posts genuine and that she is doing her solving in her own way, that's quite reactive to how people are approaching her slot, and I think this interaction with fuyuhiko feels to me like a player trying to make sense of the game, so I'm further townleaning on Wednesday. Idk how good she is at emotionally posting throughout as scum but it really does feel like town frustration.

Everyone should be afforded a certain decency.

That's insane that my posting and STD's browbeating comment disassociated so much from where the conversation went, where "you don't give a fuck who's scum?" Becomes whether wolves should be treated with a certain decency. I'm really annoyed with this, I'm nice to everyone all the time. Meh.

Unless you’re literally accusing Gimli of actually being mean to me or something,

I would never.

He was drawing a conclusion from your post that wasn’t really there. I’ll admit I’m saying something similar but mine is more reasoned than his, as I see it he just saw one comment of yours and jumped you for it.

I came out of that interaction with Wednesday with a townread on her, so how does this make sense? And I was literally paraphasing her.

Jesus this is hard to read this early in the morning. Something about fuyuhiko feels off.

[Gimli]

can you write like 2 sentences about why you town read each of those people in your town block?

Yes let me see if I can back my tentative towncore up. I understand it's too early, it's just a way to organize my own thoughts and find reasonable wagons to form, and whatnot. That's how I spotted penguin as a viable candidate.

Maki: the best posting in the game with many thoughts that resonate with my own, and a particular way of positioning herself with others that's not trying to be townread, but it's simply being town. I think once or twice she said something about how she shouldn't be trusted, or that being around her is trouble, which I understand is also roleplay but is also not roleplay. Maki just feels good and sharp and town.

Kyoko: the early breaking down on bianco's post feels like she is trying to advance the game as I said before, and then her coming to the thread now and her treatment of Wednesday feels like a genuine scumread. I can totally see how Wednesday is coming across as overreactive to kyoko, and don't expect kyoko to give her leeway for it. Kyoko is also 100% down to business like I expect from her.

Wednesday: I just stated how I feel her posts come across as genuine, and how she is imo trying to solve from how players are interacting with her slot.

Furtive: the main thing is how he is treating me. Furtive is paranoid over my tone and I expect him to pretty much scumread me early on like he did. Our interactions in real time felt really good to me and I'm positive he is just town here. I never played with scum furtive but that's how I feel.

Bianco: his reaction to being pressured early was pretty good and his solvey posts feel like it's coming from town. I like his big multi-quote work on all the players in the game even if I disagree with some of his conclusions.

Fuyuhiko and suichi are players I need to reassess

[Gimli]

Also how this means he';s going to push gimli later on?

I don't want to interfere with your likely TvT but fuyuhiko is actually scumreading me afaict and I completely expect him to push me later on for being harsh and unfair to Wednesday, like he sort of did already.

Pedit: I'll go over maki and bianco in a bit. Re: roleplay, nothing is 100% just roleplay, when the game is going, I don't think.

[Gimli]

@kyoko: Wednesday is very likely town. And from town!wed's perspective, what she is saying about fuyuhiko makes perfect sense, imo. I just told you fuyuhiko is scumreading me afaict, and finding my stance unfair to Wednesday when that interaction ended up with me townreading her AND when he actually agrees with my "you don't care who's scum" comment is a bit nonsensical, don't you think? How am I being unfair if he actually agrees with my stance?

[Gimli]

Yes

[Gimli]

I was speaking in general to both of you wrt the sheeping but thanks anyway.

I wanna go back to this. Do you have any conclusivos wrt our sheeping each other? You think its scummy, or something? What's the difference, that makes our behaviour noteworthy, between us finding a wagon and you voting to make a main wagon out of any player with two votes?

[Gimli]

*conclusions

Dumb phone is dumb

[Gimli]

Also wrt your vote on me, is that attached to a scumread that you want to share with the village?

[Gimli]

Maybe townread isn't the right word here

It's just so stubborn and largely self-centered to the point that it has to come from an arrogant town position

Townread is the right word for it, I think.

[Gimli]

Wednesday is quite likely town. Very close to obviously town.

Sure she is

[Gimli]

That's the only thing you said that indicates you're making reads as well, good stuff.

I wonder how much easier it is for mafia to spot how towny Wednesday is

[Gimli]

All these flavours and you choose to be salty @penguin

[Gimli]

Game still hard wolves posting goo

I can see the bianco scumreads but I'm not really there

Last pages strengthened my kyoko/maki/wed townreads to a proper D1 towncore

[Gimli]

Posting *good

If wolves were posting goo it's be a tad easier

[Gimli]

I’ve kinda established my thought process on Gimli already but to be specific, I think he’s trying to mudsling a fair amount here.

I think that's a crazy take on how I'm playing this game, I've got a whole lot of townreads and am trying to make people post and whatnot but, like, sure I'm mudslinging.

When have I been malicious? Can you point to a couple of examples of this?

[Gimli]

Why the fuck do you need to re-assess Shuichi?

I didn't remember very well why I was townreading Shuichi and thought my other leans were clearer. The same goes for you, it's not reassessing because of the poster itself but the changes in the threadstate

[Gimli]

I think {furtive, Maki, Wednesday, Gimli} holds 2-3 scum

In before 4 townies and then you also townie barking at a bunch of wrong trees

[Gimli]

I can see the scum case against STD but I'm not going there, not on D1 anyway, but not really against it either

Pedit: yup his scumreads are all over the place. probably paranoid townie for it (here's another bad townread cry abt it kokichi)

[Gimli]

VOTE: furtiveglance
This, Gimli, and Maki is my solve as of this moment.

Furtive is town
Maki is probably good enough to be scum but I don't think she is
And you're probably not good enough scum to be scum here so you're also town

[Gimli]

You can keep crying kokichi

[Gimli]

Fuyuhiko is making a scumteam consisting of highly engaged posters and then maki cause she is suspecting him, much range don't think such range is likely as scum. This no mafia? How mafia? Me no good player point obvious thing get kokichi much salt in eye

[Gimli]

VOTE: furtiveglance
This, Gimli, and Maki is my solve as of this moment.

Gladiate Fuyuhiko

Dude.

[Gimli]

But it seems like your game plan here is to ad hominem your way past my scumread on you.

I'm sorry if all I can do is townread the thing you're doing

[Gimli]

Dumb townies

[Gimli]

Your read on me is literally “you’re bad at the game so you’re town”.

You're all too negative. It takes a massive amount of effort to push a whole lot of townies the way you're doing here as mafia só early, you end up collecting enemies and making people wagon you and getting a spotlight you don't want as mafia. I'm not saying you're bad.

[Gimli]

Gimli talk to me about furtive

Sorry if you already have quote is fine

Furtive is like "your tone is like that game when you were mafia" and I'm like "ok locktown never change" and that's it I think. I see where he is coming from otherwise and I think we're sharing many similar points of view in the game which is nice

[Gimli]

VOTE: furtive

Bananas

You should explain this vote methinks. Why is furtive scum?

[Gimli]

Phrasing like "idk if it was warranted" = "I don't think/agree/believe it was warranted". You're too focused on the idea that saying idk necessarily means not saying anything.

As to the bianco scumreads in the game I suppose they have merit but this discussion Shuichi and furtive are having won't help

[Gimli]

ISO'd bianco and agree it's a fine day 1 elimination

[Gimli]

I think since a good number of players are coming around on bianco, we should force him to hardclaim.

[Gimli]

Let's cautiously kill bianco while he is v/la and can't defend himself

[Gimli]

Do we think we have enough for a gameday? I think mostly everyone had their say and whatnot, and finally there's a good case against someone who I agree might be posting like a wolf here.

Furtive do you want to hard defend bianco? Are you strong townreading him?

[Gimli]

Omg he is e-2

Do we kill him? It can be fun it can be memes

[Gimli]

"biancospino was eliminated he was a town sorcerer"

[Gimli]

Ok

I choose fun

Sorry bianco

VOTE: biancospino

NM opening his prod message in 2 minutes and hammering

[Gimli]

First unvote is a Debbie downer

[Gimli]

Being protown and everything, maybe I should trust you

But also

[Gimli]

Also if bianco is a wolf is he being bussed? That was kind of a flash wagon wasn't it

[Gimli]

Okay

Gnight prince

UNVOTE:

[Gimli]

- 0.75 Saihara

+0.6 Furt

+ 0.2 Oma

I know this is likely a joke but

But? Are you scumreading it?

[Gimli]

Wrt bianco's wagon: it has been going on and off since the beginning of the game, with Shuichi and kirigiri being the first people to go there. The resistance to it, reads wise, came from a single player, furtive, who is afaict the only one vocal about bianco being town here. The other resistance came from STD unvoting, something I don't think he does as scum here unless he is scum with bianco, since the elim could go through and it would be my fault for ending the game earlier by E-1ing when NM is in the game. Depending on the flip I could look horrible, suggesting a claim and then stimulating an elimination.

Both players resisting the elimination are town, I think. I'm not townreading much of anything STD posts, but clearly I don't have a good grasp of how he plays, and the unvote was protown and it's the sort of protown thing that never gives people town points. So... Maybe the wolves are fine with this going through? Or maybe they're in the background, but are not the people slowing down the wagon imo.

[Gimli]

I voted bianco to eliminate him and end the gameday, after being somewhat convinced by suichi's case on him. But also to create a situation, to put STD in a spot cause I'm having the hardest time reading him, and to see what happens, you know?

[Gimli]

Why?

[Gimli]

Who's mafia here, furtive? Fuyuhiko, who else? There's three of them I guess

[Gimli]

Interesting dynamics with STD and furtive scumreading each other but not really explaining why. STD's vote on furtive was the only solo vote he made this game, without accompanying a wagon, as far as I can recollect. Perhaps there is scum between the two? I assume if they're TvT they're both going to try to reach other in the thread, but this isn't happening here. They seem to be talking past each other a lot.

Hmmmmmmm

I'm sorry if my rambling bores everyone and feels like busywork or whatever. I'm ISOing both furtive and STD and see what hits the surface.

[Gimli]

Im so non confrontational I'm gonna townread everyone that wants me dead apparently

If you're right that it's all in lurkers then it's big brain well played to you

This is just feeling like Temple. It's a shame because I like playing with you

Quoting this to remind myself, and explain to the game properly (as much as phoneposting in a bar will get me to properly do it) why furtive is town.

First of all this is nothing like temple game so lolfurtive and omgus. But the important part is the feelings, the vote, the suspicion. It doesn't seem fake. "It's a shame because I like playing with you" strikes me with an uppercut of towniness. I don't see scum!furtive posting this to town!me. It's going to places I don't feel he'd feel too comfortable going as scum, you know? And also, the scumread itself was solid. Not the metaread but the nonconfrontational part.

Okay brb

[Gimli]

Reading that post again I'm thinking that maybe I didn't say correctly what my problem was - it wasn't just 'level 1 thinking' or whatever but that you seemed to approaching the entire game in a really charitable and forgiving way, which doesn't match up with the towngame I saw in NY Dance Party. But I haven't seen you enter a completed game before so maybe it is style.

So this is another example of towny posting when furtive is sussing me. I think my excessively forgiving posting could be seem as scummy and I like that he is following up on his scumread of me with good evidence, including a different meta read on a game I was town and playing different, which now does make sense as a scumread based off meta.

[Gimli]

I just want pressure and wagons and I think furtive could be scum but maybe more due to POE than anything he's done

But your furtive vote was a solo vote, no? Meaning that time it wasn't a wagon and it came right after you asked me for a read on furtive. So there has to be something more than pressure and wagons here.

[Gimli]

I'm scumreading you strongly again STD, you feel very blend and reactive and kind of empty of meaningful posts, but this time I'm not going to bother listening to my guts since I seem to always scumread you or something. If people wagon you I'll probably join and when you flip town I'll pretend I had nothing to do with it.

Came out of that duo ISO strong townreading furtive, however.

I feel like maybe Wednesday is my only locktown. And then Shuichi/furtive/fuyuhiko, then maki/kyoko, then maybe kokichi is a townlean but it's already a stretch. I can vote anyone that's not those players and don't feel strong enough to scumcase anyone.

Okay that's it for now

[Gimli]

Thats exciting

[Gimli]

I hope to read much more of this tomorrow, cya later

[Gimli]

- 0.75 Saihara

+0.6 Furt

+ 0.2 Oma

I know this is likely a joke but

But? Are you scumreading it?

If I said it was most likely a joke, why would I scumread it.

So why the "but" and the "shifty"?

[Gimli]

Who feels like limming bianco with me for funzies?

I would this morning but now I feel we should hear from kaito, maki, and other slots that I feel didn't participate enough D1.

But IDK, maybe I come home later and vote him for fun if he is E-1

[Gimli]

Fine let's do this

Sorry if you're town bianco

VOTE: biancospino

[Gimli]

UNVOTE:
Meh

[Gimli]

VOTE: biancospino

Okay

[Gimli]

Wait so fuyuhiko is not even on bianco and is saying that? Weird, huh

[Gimli]

It's going through anyway

[Gimli]

Can we just end this day, I don’t want to have to worry about this game right now

Why would it be worrysome? Do you think you can be in trouble and get eliminated?

[Gimli]

It's going through anyway

....this doesn't answer my question at all...this is the opposite of answering my question

I don't know alignments so I'm insecure about making things go through

Speaking of which I'm home now and there wasn't a hammer so I'mma UNVOTE: again

[Gimli]

Saihara, I want to know one thing from you. What do you think of maki this game? If I trust her, would that be a mistake?

[Gimli]

I want you to expand on the "a bit questionable" part. The reason for this, is that if this is how maki plays as mafia then I will never have a proper and will always erroneously townread her, and I can see she didn't really show towniness, just very good reasoned posts, and that can be enough to win the game for scum I think.

I'm voting bianco before sleeping

[Gimli]

VOTE: bianco

Okay

That's E-1 again

[Gimli]

Are they hammered? Can we have an updated vote count?

They're hammered yes

[Gimli]

Extreme dead air, I'm glad we're flipping someone

[Gimli]

wow

[Gimli]

This went way better than how I was scaring myself from around the end of that day phase.

VOTE: Kaito Momota

My hunch says this was a bus by kaito

okay cap'n

VOTE: kaito

[Gimli]

saihara's case was the only actual scumcase in d1, and it was a pretty good one. kaito was the first to take notice of it, I think, after saihara asked for people to read him again. it could be a bus, I don't like kaito's posting otherwise, but I think kaito/fuyuhiko do have a point that he was early and if this is a bus, it's a well made one especifically to try to play a long game. however, if one of your scum partners is not_mafia, you're gonna want to defend bianco, or at least not help bury him so early.

what do people think of STD?

[Gimli]

I think if it's not kaito, it could be STD, it could be actually furtive even though I'm strong townreading him, but just for being the only hard defender of bianco, and then there's penguin cause I don't think you can clear penguin, and then there's... maki? posting good but knowing how to post good arguments as mafia. but that's quite unlikely, I'm just adding maki because I think I'm hard clearing everyone else for the time being.

is this a good solve? kaito < std < penguin < furtive for now

[Gimli]

E

m

a

n

P

i

n

g

u

F

l

a

m

e

t

h

r

o

w

e

r

S

p

a

r

x

C

r

o

t

c

h

G

o

b

l

i

n

o

f

W

o

e

U

n

a

g

i

D

e

a

t

h

S

t

a

r

e

S

a

n

d

r

a

B

o

l

l

o

c

k

s

U

s

o

D

a

y

o

M

o

d

k

i

l

l

G

o

a

t

e

e

B

a

b

y

G

a

n

g

s

t

a

W

a

s

h

i

n

g

M

a

c

h

i

n

e

N

o

t

_

M

a

f

i

a

This game is hard, can I have a clue?

fun times that this was SvS

[Gimli]

Here's the wall. In nice spoiler so that it won't fill the screen.

Spoiler: Wednesday

I will ignore posts I don't find significant.
118: I agree with Wednesday here that Gimli's sus on her is not really founded, in fact just posting some rvs placeholder and then disappearing is the sort of thing I'd do myself if a game were to begin while I had RL things to do -- frankly, I don't really care for the implication here that Wednesday was faking that.
That said, I'm unsure if that line of thinking is necessarily scum indicative, it is going for the easy fish though, so Wednesday's vote may be justified; it is however a somewhat agressive post (yes, I used that adjective myself this time).
As for the buddying comment, well I also saw it as already remarked, but people seem to think it was just a joke and I can get behind that, I just don't think it was a good joke.

133: I don't necessarily agree that switching votes rapidly during D1 is very scum indicative. If anything reveals some fluidity that I believe could more easily come from town. And I don't think that Gimli is "making votes for the sake of it", his votes are justified (even if, indeed, flimsily). I think this post is +scum actually.

146: that's fine, but I think asking to motivate a sus read on oneself is more likely to come from groupscum (I have no data on this, this is just based on my forma mentis. If anyone has data to back off the converse, I'll gadly hear it). So half +scum.

148: I actually like this interaction. The unvote seems to corroborate that Wednesday actually espouses the view in #133, as #142 does indeed alleviate the perception she had that Gimli's vote were just random. +town

149: whatever. The explanation is sound, and I also agree to the distaste of Gimli's vote for her, but I won't give her town cred for this.

176: see, this is a pretty inconsequential friendly banter. However, I point that out because post #127 is also inconsequential banter, and their both with STD. At this point I don't think it's consequential, but notice how STD was actually the only player Wednesday approached to in this manner (excluding quoting NM's read list, but then again lots of people, myself included, did that at some point).

total: 0.5+scum

Spoiler: STD

20: you already know what I think of this. +scum.

38: a bit defensive, idk if that was warranted. I'm gonna give this a 0.25+scum.

42: this and the following are nulls. I don't know why exactly STD had to remark in #43 that #42 was stilted, I don't think it particularly was and I don't get the need to excuse oneself even if it was, but I don't want to read to much into it.

76: idk, I don't agree with this vote. While I don't agree with Kyoko's criticism of me either, that seemed to me an honest attempt to scumhunt. Scumreading them over "being too nitpicky" with that (cfr #91, #92) seems a little forced. +0.5scum

90: of this post I like how my TR is apparently, cfr 94, not set in stone. It was not actually challenged afterwards, hough one must assume that if #76 were genuine than the TR on me probably is too. The Kaito TR is also reasonable.

132--141, 179: I'm ignoring meta posts rn, at least possibly until I find the will to go read games.

144: eh, the question is legitimate. +town

157: eh, this one I like less, falls somewhere in the category of asking about own SRs. Though I'm giving STD some slack for it.

159, 165: gut readings are fine, especially this early. Fuyuhiko apparently doesn't like that, and that may be reasonable, I just don't agree that's particularly AI at this point.

180: I genuinely didn't understand this post. Does what? @STD, I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, I would just like a clarification. I'm guessing it is trivially linked to 183?
Btw, 183 seem like a genuine attempt to workshop, I'm giving it +0.25 town.

191: while I also find #38 distasteful, this response to Kokichi is credible. I guess it could be construed as attempting to negate all further attempts at using meta to read him, which idk if I like. +0.25scum.

total: 0.75+scum

Spoiler: Penguin

65: it's possible I'm just dumb, but this post doesn't make any sense to me? There were not two competing equivalent wagons, mine was already the largest and not tied with anyone. +0.25scum.
Also I resent the implication that my user is difficult >:(

67: uhm. Noncommital, but idk how much to read into it.

135: I mean, the wiki says that buzzword is a buzzword. Though I'm willing to actually give this and 137 +0.5town, this is a gut feeling but it's just that it seems to me it is quite to brazen for a scum.

total: +0.25town

Spoiler: Penguin

Spoiler: furtive

9: I actually read this as null. I guess it could be beneficial to town to start analysing mech early, though this one remark is pretty shallow and quite trivial, so a scum could have easily made it without really hurting anything.

13: this I like... a bit less, since he was the one to start doing setup spec. I'm giving it +0.25scum for that, though the awkward thing is that I actually agree with the suggestion here.

15: eh, that explanation does not actually completely alleviate the uneasiness.

21: this is a bit brazen, I actually don't hate it. At the very least is not panicky. Let's say +0.25town.

30: same thing as for #9; it's all well and good we know that, but the utility is so little that a scum could have easily made this observation without hurting anything. I'm not gonna give town cred for that.
About the Wednesday jokes, I do believe he just meant he didn't like those as jokes, at least as of 40, so whatever

117: about PP, I don't like doing meta, maybe when I'll have the will I'll check the veracity, though I do appreciate the comment.
I'm not 100% sure I do like the Gimli comment though, in a way it's, somewhat ironically, a bit surface level. Now I like that furtive is sharing some early reads, and I'm giving some town cred for that, but that's not really enough effort for me to give much. +0.5town

129--138: meta, meta, meta. I don't know meta.

151, 158: I don't care much for the assumption that Wednesday's vote would look particularly bad after town!Gimli flips; it is true that Wednesday was tunnelly and all, but to say that would implicate that Wednesday is probably not town if Gimli is is a lot of a stretch. I also don't care about the need to comment on the optics of what will happen when Gimli flips town, I of course get that it was just an argumentative hypothesis, it's just that sussing Wednesday on the fact that she would be sus assuming the veracity of a particular hypothesis sound off. +0.75scum, not a full +scum because I liked #151 in isolation.

199: eh, may be a decent attempt to get some interactions. +0.25town

205: That's bantery. May mean nothing though.

Spoiler: Gimli

6: I though it could be buddying, but people seem to think it's just a joke and whatever, I can manage to see it being that.

22, 23: that's well and good, but, like, why? +0.25scum
(also, I noted Gimli did call Fuyuhiko as huyuhiko a couple times. Is this just a typo or there is some lore reason to it, just curios)

28: I am willing to concede this may just be a late RVS vote and go on.

39: okay, but again, why exactly is that? Like, am I wrong in getting so upset about this? +0.5scum

46: eh, I actually do like this post. It's attempting to call out furtive on backpedaling, though I'm not convinced he was in the first place. Still, +0.25town.

56, 59: the TRs are fine. I'm unsure how I should thik about being defended like this though, I'm always a bit paranoid it may be buddying. Whatever, +0.25town.

63, 64: inciting discussion; that's good. +0.5town

87, 100: idk, lots of TRs. The STD things is probably a joke, but a bit distasteful to me, though I'll leave this at null.

116: it's a bit of a stretch alright. She may have had RL issues or whatnot, I feel like discounting this may be the case is slightly rude, but more to the point is slightly going for the easy target. +0.25scum, but I'm not sure on this.

122--124: uh. What. +0.25scum

142: the explanation makes sense. +0.25town

total: 0.75+scum

Spoiler: Kokichi

33, 37: this to me seems a towny thing to do. I suppose it's possible for scum to do that to throw some easy shade, but also I don't think it would be effective at all. On the other hand, a Townie is either genuine, and so the vote is fine and also trying to see if someone else is of the same opinion to corroborate one's own is fine, or is attempting a reaction test which clearly has more utilty for town. +town.

190: this is on the same page as me thinking #38 to be slightly defensive. Kokichi here seems to be genuine, +0.25town

196: yeah, that line of reasoning is... flimsy at best. Though they're right that it would have taken us out of RVS, and doing so I believe is protown. I'm not giving extra town cred for this post in itself, since it was after the fact.

total: 1.25+town

Spoiler: Saihara

49: this post I like. I don't think it seemed fabricated concern, and it was good to initiate the game proper. +town

95--103: It was not a good job at convincing, but wathever.

total: 1+town
In all manners, my previously stated TR on Saihara stands.

Spoiler: Kyoko

50: I have already answered to the content of this post, and made clear my opinions on it. I want to say that, however, that some of the criticism in my original 78 are clearly resolved by 80, which does clear a lot of the doubts I had on her. With that, #50 does seem actual effort to scumhunt, so +town.

104: I'm not sure I understand the meaning of the embedded picture. Not reading anything wrong into it, I'm just genuinely unsure.

112: eh, that's good. Well, I don't agree completely, though this is a pretty lucid explanation that I don't see scum making. +0.5town.

total: 1.5+town

Spoiler: Fuyuhiko

14--18: eh, a little quick to draw conclusions, but not completely unreasonable. +0.25town

145: ok. Don't think it's an AI thing to say though.

149 (I also believe 152 ties to this): since you're not the first to ask, I was under the impression that a FoS was just a way to signal willingness to vote a spot one find suspicious -- and so that a vote is no longer a FoS, since you already acted on that willingness. From what I'm understanding from here, I probably understood that wrong.

154: that's actually a reasonable question, though my judgment of Kaito may be clouded, since most of the things they said tie to me. +0.25town

156: why? It does come across as a bit brisky, I'll admit that.

164: as I said, I don't think gut reads are necessarily scummy. And the tone here seems a bit sarcastic to me, which I would imagine could possibly be some sort of veiled accusation. +0.25scum (but I'm not the best at reading tone...)

172: is this remark somewhat offhanded or what? I don't get if it sais that they're reading Gimli as town for that post, or sarcastically that they find all their other post so scummy that that one is the towniest.

178: this actually shows coerency with #156 and #164, so I'm gonna put it down as a bit townie-looking. +0.25town

total: 0.5+town

Spoiler: others

• Kaito is mostly talking about me and others' interactions with me, so it would be difficult for me to comment on them. I don't have actual reasons to scumread them at the moment, and in fact I do like the fact they're not hard TRing me and are in fact willing to entertain Kyoko's points, like in #108.
  
• Not_Mafia is just null. I don't think that the fact they put themself on the bottom does necessarily mean the list is trash, I think it's just memey. I also don't think the list is of much value, looks like is there mostly as joke anyway.

rule of three things

[Gimli]

you're town again aren't you

wolfy m'fer lol

[Gimli]

I think we flip kaito, then

[Gimli]

I'm voting for Fuyuhiko because they did not interact with the Bianco wagon, which I believe makes them more likely to be mafia. They posted 714 but it was vague and they didn't place a vote. That and their reads in posts 475 and 490 are pretty off the mark.

those are all good points on fuyuhiko

[Gimli]

I think it's very strange that he wanted to end the day already but wasn't voting biancospino

there's also not_mafia missing the hammer many times, so maybe they really didn't want to go there

I'm clearing fuyuhiko for tone and seeing scum everywhere and all in super wrong places which is very towny

[Gimli]

pet scumread: penguin was trying to frame people for not wanting to hammer bianco around EOD

probably just being town and making associates but maybe mafia trying to plant associates instead

[Gimli]

it's the roleblocker. we know what scum has, it's in the mod posts at the beginning of the game.

and furtive talked about it in the first page.

I'm under the impression you don't know we know that, per your last post. did I misunderstand you, kaito?

[Gimli]

*misunderstood

english bad

[Gimli]

there's only one possible bus on bianco and it's kaito. if it's not kaito i'm looking offwagon.

oh i see

i don't know if i think kaito's it anymore

VOTE: kyoko

kyoko isn't offwagon though?

[Gimli]

How do you get rule of three from this? He’s got the entire playerlist mentioned.

clearly I'm an idiot

[Gimli]

there's nothing more throwing a scum partner under the bus than what kyoko did to biancospino at the very start of the game, but okay if all you're looking at are the votes

[Gimli]

I don't see it

@Kokichi, unless the RVS banter is AI for std for some meta reason, which I don't know, that's the only post you may be referring to on page 1.
Now, Fuyuhiko's motivation for their (I presume) non-RVS vote is indeed pretty evident, so not to see it may be a little weird -- so I guess it may just be a very soft pocketing (or a very soft attempt to detract the real vote placed on his undeadbuddy, though frankly I would think doing such a thing, with that intention, barely out of RVS when there's no actual indication that relieving pressure would be necessary, has very little to no benefit and would risk outing one's buddy, so I'd be cautioned to exclude this hypotesys).

Though frankly, idk, it's not like it's so glaring that I'm convinced it's so. If we're looking at pocketing attempts, I'd even say that Gimli's joking about Wednesday is more emotionally significant to the parts involved (though, again, it may just be an interpersonal meta thing, which I wouldn't know about).

I have to things to mention regarding this post.

I don't follow the assumptions about how mentioning "Wednesday" was emotional/pocketing or in any way sus. It just was a non-game-related poke at a great username on first page of a mafia game with no game related content to discuss.

the second thing is that this post is actually filled with assumptions and no conclusions. For example in the first paragraph, you're assuming Kokichi is actually having a reason to sus STD and he is not aiming to find a reaction and make progress which is the point of RVS. Secondly you're assuming that Fuyuhiko's vote was serious. His intentions to vote is not yet clear by any means as we have to wait and see where he is going with that line of thought. secondly, you say voting for them might be a "soft pocketing". Is this based on some previous interaction between those two slots in another game? If not how you concluded that his aggressive reaction and vote is an instance of pocketing? and then you add another hypothesis and say it's to redirect attention. Why would he - assuming he is up for no good - would want to redirect people's attention away from his previous RVS vote on page 1?

All these assumptions, told out loud, don't seem to be coming up from a game-solving perspective. Its more like putting events the way you want them to be for your goal rather than finding that goal. All that being said the way you caught up on these two pages, it looks like shading and for that, I'll put my first FOS on you.

VOTE: biancospino



pedit. And I found my first town read.

@STD this was at the start of page 3. do you think that's likely SvS? it was also crossposted with suichi's vote, meaning they were both noticing the same thing. no one's vote is higher than kyoko/suichi's first suspicions on bianco I think, that set the tone of the game.

that you think being on a wagon has higher antipartner equity is crazy for me but maybe you're fakesolving because you're the wolf!!!!

[Gimli]

I don't see it

@Kokichi, unless the RVS banter is AI for std for some meta reason, which I don't know, that's the only post you may be referring to on page 1.
Now, Fuyuhiko's motivation for their (I presume) non-RVS vote is indeed pretty evident, so not to see it may be a little weird -- so I guess it may just be a very soft pocketing (or a very soft attempt to detract the real vote placed on his undeadbuddy, though frankly I would think doing such a thing, with that intention, barely out of RVS when there's no actual indication that relieving pressure would be necessary, has very little to no benefit and would risk outing one's buddy, so I'd be cautioned to exclude this hypotesys).

Though frankly, idk, it's not like it's so glaring that I'm convinced it's so. If we're looking at pocketing attempts, I'd even say that Gimli's joking about Wednesday is more emotionally significant to the parts involved (though, again, it may just be an interpersonal meta thing, which I wouldn't know about).

Okay, Gimli spewed town but he’s been pretty obvtown anyway. This makes me not to want to vote Kuzo. Gimli, sanity check me on this but I think this looks antipartnery for Kuzo.

yeah. kuzo has been incredibly towny otherwise too I think

[Gimli]

VOTE: std

awooooooooooooooo!

[Gimli]

CAUGHT YOU AGAIN

(never caught you)

[Gimli]

I think STD is really townie because if he’s actually fake solving here, than I want lessons. lol

teach me how to read STD

[Gimli]

kyoko/wed
furtive

kuzu
kokichi


maki
STD/penguin


kaito

my reads are looking like this RN. the spaces between them denotes the distance in how much I'm townreading them.

Agree with kyoko we must flip people today instead of holding. it is both the right mechanical play, because we have all town alive to work on the game, and because its more fun that way, and I'll choose fun over 'right play' if the right play is tanking the game and making people disinterested in it.

[Gimli]

Here's the wall. In nice spoiler so that it won't fill the screen.

Spoiler: Wednesday

I will ignore posts I don't find significant.
118: I agree with Wednesday here that Gimli's sus on her is not really founded, in fact just posting some rvs placeholder and then disappearing is the sort of thing I'd do myself if a game were to begin while I had RL things to do -- frankly, I don't really care for the implication here that Wednesday was faking that.
That said, I'm unsure if that line of thinking is necessarily scum indicative, it is going for the easy fish though, so Wednesday's vote may be justified; it is however a somewhat agressive post (yes, I used that adjective myself this time).
As for the buddying comment, well I also saw it as already remarked, but people seem to think it was just a joke and I can get behind that, I just don't think it was a good joke.

133: I don't necessarily agree that switching votes rapidly during D1 is very scum indicative. If anything reveals some fluidity that I believe could more easily come from town. And I don't think that Gimli is "making votes for the sake of it", his votes are justified (even if, indeed, flimsily). I think this post is +scum actually.

146: that's fine, but I think asking to motivate a sus read on oneself is more likely to come from groupscum (I have no data on this, this is just based on my forma mentis. If anyone has data to back off the converse, I'll gadly hear it). So half +scum.

148: I actually like this interaction. The unvote seems to corroborate that Wednesday actually espouses the view in #133, as #142 does indeed alleviate the perception she had that Gimli's vote were just random. +town

149: whatever. The explanation is sound, and I also agree to the distaste of Gimli's vote for her, but I won't give her town cred for this.

176: see, this is a pretty inconsequential friendly banter. However, I point that out because post #127 is also inconsequential banter, and their both with STD. At this point I don't think it's consequential, but notice how STD was actually the only player Wednesday approached to in this manner (excluding quoting NM's read list, but then again lots of people, myself included, did that at some point).

total: 0.5+scum

Spoiler: STD

20: you already know what I think of this. +scum.

38: a bit defensive, idk if that was warranted. I'm gonna give this a 0.25+scum.

42: this and the following are nulls. I don't know why exactly STD had to remark in #43 that #42 was stilted, I don't think it particularly was and I don't get the need to excuse oneself even if it was, but I don't want to read to much into it.

76: idk, I don't agree with this vote. While I don't agree with Kyoko's criticism of me either, that seemed to me an honest attempt to scumhunt. Scumreading them over "being too nitpicky" with that (cfr #91, #92) seems a little forced. +0.5scum

90: of this post I like how my TR is apparently, cfr 94, not set in stone. It was not actually challenged afterwards, hough one must assume that if #76 were genuine than the TR on me probably is too. The Kaito TR is also reasonable.

132--141, 179: I'm ignoring meta posts rn, at least possibly until I find the will to go read games.

144: eh, the question is legitimate. +town

157: eh, this one I like less, falls somewhere in the category of asking about own SRs. Though I'm giving STD some slack for it.

159, 165: gut readings are fine, especially this early. Fuyuhiko apparently doesn't like that, and that may be reasonable, I just don't agree that's particularly AI at this point.

180: I genuinely didn't understand this post. Does what? @STD, I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, I would just like a clarification. I'm guessing it is trivially linked to 183?
Btw, 183 seem like a genuine attempt to workshop, I'm giving it +0.25 town.

191: while I also find #38 distasteful, this response to Kokichi is credible. I guess it could be construed as attempting to negate all further attempts at using meta to read him, which idk if I like. +0.25scum.

total: 0.75+scum

Spoiler: Penguin

65: it's possible I'm just dumb, but this post doesn't make any sense to me? There were not two competing equivalent wagons, mine was already the largest and not tied with anyone. +0.25scum.
Also I resent the implication that my user is difficult >:(

67: uhm. Noncommital, but idk how much to read into it.

135: I mean, the wiki says that buzzword is a buzzword. Though I'm willing to actually give this and 137 +0.5town, this is a gut feeling but it's just that it seems to me it is quite to brazen for a scum.

total: +0.25town

Spoiler: Penguin

Spoiler: furtive

9: I actually read this as null. I guess it could be beneficial to town to start analysing mech early, though this one remark is pretty shallow and quite trivial, so a scum could have easily made it without really hurting anything.

13: this I like... a bit less, since he was the one to start doing setup spec. I'm giving it +0.25scum for that, though the awkward thing is that I actually agree with the suggestion here.

15: eh, that explanation does not actually completely alleviate the uneasiness.

21: this is a bit brazen, I actually don't hate it. At the very least is not panicky. Let's say +0.25town.

30: same thing as for #9; it's all well and good we know that, but the utility is so little that a scum could have easily made this observation without hurting anything. I'm not gonna give town cred for that.
About the Wednesday jokes, I do believe he just meant he didn't like those as jokes, at least as of 40, so whatever

117: about PP, I don't like doing meta, maybe when I'll have the will I'll check the veracity, though I do appreciate the comment.
I'm not 100% sure I do like the Gimli comment though, in a way it's, somewhat ironically, a bit surface level. Now I like that furtive is sharing some early reads, and I'm giving some town cred for that, but that's not really enough effort for me to give much. +0.5town

129--138: meta, meta, meta. I don't know meta.

151, 158: I don't care much for the assumption that Wednesday's vote would look particularly bad after town!Gimli flips; it is true that Wednesday was tunnelly and all, but to say that would implicate that Wednesday is probably not town if Gimli is is a lot of a stretch. I also don't care about the need to comment on the optics of what will happen when Gimli flips town, I of course get that it was just an argumentative hypothesis, it's just that sussing Wednesday on the fact that she would be sus assuming the veracity of a particular hypothesis sound off. +0.75scum, not a full +scum because I liked #151 in isolation.

199: eh, may be a decent attempt to get some interactions. +0.25town

205: That's bantery. May mean nothing though.

Spoiler: Gimli

6: I though it could be buddying, but people seem to think it's just a joke and whatever, I can manage to see it being that.

22, 23: that's well and good, but, like, why? +0.25scum
(also, I noted Gimli did call Fuyuhiko as huyuhiko a couple times. Is this just a typo or there is some lore reason to it, just curios)

28: I am willing to concede this may just be a late RVS vote and go on.

39: okay, but again, why exactly is that? Like, am I wrong in getting so upset about this? +0.5scum

46: eh, I actually do like this post. It's attempting to call out furtive on backpedaling, though I'm not convinced he was in the first place. Still, +0.25town.

56, 59: the TRs are fine. I'm unsure how I should thik about being defended like this though, I'm always a bit paranoid it may be buddying. Whatever, +0.25town.

63, 64: inciting discussion; that's good. +0.5town

87, 100: idk, lots of TRs. The STD things is probably a joke, but a bit distasteful to me, though I'll leave this at null.

116: it's a bit of a stretch alright. She may have had RL issues or whatnot, I feel like discounting this may be the case is slightly rude, but more to the point is slightly going for the easy target. +0.25scum, but I'm not sure on this.

122--124: uh. What. +0.25scum

142: the explanation makes sense. +0.25town

total: 0.75+scum

Spoiler: Kokichi

33, 37: this to me seems a towny thing to do. I suppose it's possible for scum to do that to throw some easy shade, but also I don't think it would be effective at all. On the other hand, a Townie is either genuine, and so the vote is fine and also trying to see if someone else is of the same opinion to corroborate one's own is fine, or is attempting a reaction test which clearly has more utilty for town. +town.

190: this is on the same page as me thinking #38 to be slightly defensive. Kokichi here seems to be genuine, +0.25town

196: yeah, that line of reasoning is... flimsy at best. Though they're right that it would have taken us out of RVS, and doing so I believe is protown. I'm not giving extra town cred for this post in itself, since it was after the fact.

total: 1.25+town

Spoiler: Saihara

49: this post I like. I don't think it seemed fabricated concern, and it was good to initiate the game proper. +town

95--103: It was not a good job at convincing, but wathever.

total: 1+town
In all manners, my previously stated TR on Saihara stands.

Spoiler: Kyoko

50: I have already answered to the content of this post, and made clear my opinions on it. I want to say that, however, that some of the criticism in my original 78 are clearly resolved by 80, which does clear a lot of the doubts I had on her. With that, #50 does seem actual effort to scumhunt, so +town.

104: I'm not sure I understand the meaning of the embedded picture. Not reading anything wrong into it, I'm just genuinely unsure.

112: eh, that's good. Well, I don't agree completely, though this is a pretty lucid explanation that I don't see scum making. +0.5town.

total: 1.5+town

Spoiler: Fuyuhiko

14--18: eh, a little quick to draw conclusions, but not completely unreasonable. +0.25town

145: ok. Don't think it's an AI thing to say though.

149 (I also believe 152 ties to this): since you're not the first to ask, I was under the impression that a FoS was just a way to signal willingness to vote a spot one find suspicious -- and so that a vote is no longer a FoS, since you already acted on that willingness. From what I'm understanding from here, I probably understood that wrong.

154: that's actually a reasonable question, though my judgment of Kaito may be clouded, since most of the things they said tie to me. +0.25town

156: why? It does come across as a bit brisky, I'll admit that.

164: as I said, I don't think gut reads are necessarily scummy. And the tone here seems a bit sarcastic to me, which I would imagine could possibly be some sort of veiled accusation. +0.25scum (but I'm not the best at reading tone...)

172: is this remark somewhat offhanded or what? I don't get if it sais that they're reading Gimli as town for that post, or sarcastically that they find all their other post so scummy that that one is the towniest.

178: this actually shows coerency with #156 and #164, so I'm gonna put it down as a bit townie-looking. +0.25town

total: 0.5+town

Spoiler: others

• Kaito is mostly talking about me and others' interactions with me, so it would be difficult for me to comment on them. I don't have actual reasons to scumread them at the moment, and in fact
  I do like the fact they're not hard TRing me
  and are in fact willing to entertain Kyoko's points, like in #108.
  
• Not_Mafia is just null. I don't think that the fact they put themself on the bottom does necessarily mean the list is trash, I think it's just memey. I also don't think the list is of much value, looks like is there mostly as joke anyway.

This list doesn’t look great for either Kaito or Maki. Maki is left out completely but the Kaito read is strange. He seems to like Kaito but fails to give him any kind of rating.

What strikes me as bizarre was bianco saying he really liked that Kaito wasn’t “hard townreading [him]”. but like why would he even have that thought since I don’t think Kaito had even given any reads at this point but will cross check, just to make sure.

that probably does make them more likely to be aligned. it's weirdly constructed like he was somehow too aware of kaito when writing about him, even though he left both him and his other team mate as footnotes on his big MQ.

[Gimli]

VOTE: maki

[Gimli]

I’ll be upfront since I think town’s early advantage makes this an affordable choice: I have a green check on Maki.

Holy shit

[Gimli]

Good morning fellas I think we're ending the game today

Let me heat up coffee

[Gimli]

Imagine if we just no eliminated today instead of outing. We would have 2 more results tomorrow. No way either of you were getting killed or roleblocked.

lol kokichi doesn't want the game to end

[Gimli]

I’ll be upfront since I think town’s early advantage makes this an affordable choice: I have a green check on Maki.

so

suichi dead joat: 2 pts
fuyuhiko either joat or cop: 2 or 3 points
maki claimed pr: ?? points
kaito claimed joat?: 2 points.

so that's always more than 6 points.

[Gimli]

@Gimili (as you're my makoto in this game) please go over the case one more time and explain what happened so everyone can come to the same conclusions

there's a slim chance scum used less points than they could've and everyone is telling the truth, right?

[Gimli]

if scum only had 3 points to spare, then kaito is always the liar

either way it's today's flip

[Gimli]

VOTE: kaito

[Gimli]

sorry wed I was catching up

let's wrap this game up

[Gimli]

I wish this game was more interesting than it turned out to be cause it's always good to play with friends

[Gimli]

yeah

kaito flip is a necessity

let's vote him and end the day

[Gimli]

I’ll be upfront since I think town’s early advantage makes this an affordable choice: I have a green check on Maki.

Holy shit

top tier NA's by town this game too

[Gimli]

is this memes

[Gimli]

you're the meanest penguin I've ever met pp

[Gimli]

I'm actual PR. This quick hammer was suspect. Clearly Kaito wasnt actually claiming PR but trying to bait kill from mafia.

I'm also a PR

[Gimli]

ugh gl?

[Gimli]

okay let's figure this bullshit out

[Gimli]

I’ll be upfront since I think town’s early advantage makes this an affordable choice: I have a green check on Maki.

maki clear
6 points from our flips + kokichi and maki are also claiming PR.

it's not important what they are RN so they don't need to claim.

I think the last wolf is either STD or pp

[Gimli]

STD scumcase: he is scummy and fakesolving. I don't buy it.
pp scumcase: he is a mountain of salt cause his team mates were potatoes.

I suggest we go with one of them today.

[Gimli]

kokichi claimed at f'ing twilight, I think it's extremely unlikely he is actually scum

[Gimli]

claimed PRs: one is maki who I think is actually lying about being a PR but it does NOT matter cause she is clear.

the other is kokichi with a twilight claim. it makes no sense if he is scum.

it means scum underpicked their powers. it doesn't matter much.

[Gimli]

STD scumcase: he is scummy and fakesolving. I don't buy it.
pp scumcase: he is a mountain of

salt

cause his team mates were

potatoes

.

I suggest we go with one of them today.

Could salt and potatoes be linked

so you wanna go pp today? what are your reads rn?

pedit: i think the claim is real

[Gimli]

you can be sanctimonious about it or you can find the last scum with us

[Gimli]

The fact that only one of you that voted Kaito is mafia is mind blowing

It looked like a desperation claim to me with the other 2 claims taken into account

It was pretty obvious Maki was trying to roleswap. Which is why I tried to say unvote without actually saying it. I tried to confuse Mafia at twilight but it just wasnt gonna happen.

wait so you're not a PR
and maki isn't a PR either
so it's indeed 6 points
let's just play mafia then, enough mech talk this is mountainous

[Gimli]

VOTE: STD

[Gimli]

@furtive: it's a standard play when you're a VT with a green check. maki can claim whatever she wants cause she is already clear. and since it's maki I assume she'll try playing optimally giving wifom to wolves. kokichi did the same thing, that's okay. it may not make sense in the end cause wolves can count and knew how many points they had, so they knew the real claimant was fuyuhiko.

[Gimli]

I don't see it

@Kokichi, unless the RVS banter is AI for std for some meta reason, which I don't know, that's the only post you may be referring to on page 1.
Now, Fuyuhiko's motivation for their (I presume) non-RVS vote is indeed pretty evident, so not to see it may be a little weird -- so I guess it may just be a very soft pocketing (or a very soft attempt to detract the real vote placed on his undeadbuddy, though frankly I would think doing such a thing, with that intention, barely out of RVS when there's no actual indication that relieving pressure would be necessary, has very little to no benefit and would risk outing one's buddy, so I'd be cautioned to exclude this hypotesys).

Though frankly, idk, it's not like it's so glaring that I'm convinced it's so. If we're looking at pocketing attempts, I'd even say that Gimli's joking about Wednesday is more emotionally significant to the parts involved (though, again, it may just be an interpersonal meta thing, which I wouldn't know about).

I have to things to mention regarding this post.

I don't follow the assumptions about how mentioning "Wednesday" was emotional/pocketing or in any way sus. It just was a non-game-related poke at a great username on first page of a mafia game with no game related content to discuss.

the second thing is that this post is actually filled with assumptions and no conclusions. For example in the first paragraph, you're assuming Kokichi is actually having a reason to sus STD and he is not aiming to find a reaction and make progress which is the point of RVS. Secondly you're assuming that Fuyuhiko's vote was serious. His intentions to vote is not yet clear by any means as we have to wait and see where he is going with that line of thought. secondly, you say voting for them might be a "soft pocketing". Is this based on some previous interaction between those two slots in another game? If not how you concluded that his aggressive reaction and vote is an instance of pocketing? and then you add another hypothesis and say it's to redirect attention. Why would he - assuming he is up for no good - would want to redirect people's attention away from his previous RVS vote on page 1?

All these assumptions, told out loud, don't seem to be coming up from a game-solving perspective. Its more like putting events the way you want them to be for your goal rather than finding that goal. All that being said the way you caught up on these two pages, it looks like shading and for that, I'll put my first FOS on you.

VOTE: biancospino



pedit. And I found my first town read.

IMO this is why kyoko is clear

[Gimli]

Oh yeah you still think that cross post couldn't be bussing even tho she would have no idea shuichi was making that post

it makes her more likely town cause she is mindmelding super hard with a townie. it's not posturing it's just natural solve and, yeah. kyoko can take me to f3 and win at this point.

also kyoko's entire d1/d2 are towny. I could be wrong but I don't see her or wed ever being scum.

[Gimli]

Kyoko->gimli->furtive probably solves it

okay

we're flipping you today

[Gimli]

the last mafia is a roleblocker. they can roleblock and kill, right?

[Gimli]

Yes I just picked three names yours included because I'm scum trying to antagonize you for ???? reasons

it's just an awful solve imo, you never produced a read on kyoko it's just 'what about kyoko' and voting her and thinking she is scum for whatever scum oriented posturing reason you're finding

I'm hard scumreading you the entire game and you know that, I was just, you know, I didn't want to miselim you again after pairs mafia.

but now we're too far into it and you're still fake solving imo.

[Gimli]

maki may have fucked it

[Gimli]

why is kokichi town?

he was on a high horse yesterday blaming us even before the flip as he knew this would happen. who will assume maki lied there instantly without having more info about the setup?

it's an old habit, I think. once you're a clear inside a claim you claim as well so you can wifom the wolves into not being sure who to NK. it works fantastic in basic cop mafia games. didn't work here, but I get the idea.

I know it had terrible results, I get it.

I don't think it's kokichi though. I think it's STD.

[Gimli]

Considering I'm already clear from Kuzu, I suppose me outting doesn't matter.

I'm claiming PR.

potato

[Gimli]

maki can still be a PR though, it wolves underpicked

[Gimli]

if maki wasn't lying and is a PR i'm gonna hardclear both kyoko for being legitimately angry and kokichi for his twilight claim, because that would mean doing things they would never really do as wolves. 1) kyoko assuming maki lied now and 2) kokichi making a PR claim at twilight to pretend to be wifoming wolves after maki claimed while simultaneously just being mafia that knows maki lied and is going full brain scum on everyone at twilight, for something that quite frankly would never clear him and I'm sure I'm the only one who thinks it clears him

[Gimli]

Paused my treadmill just to respond to wed

We know the scum PRs, it's a roleblocker a goon and a rolecop. Maki is never a godfather cause scum don't have gf

[Gimli]

every post by STD my mind goes 'yeah this is scum posturing'

wed you're so towny how can you be so towny

we don't know if maki misplayed or if she is PR yet

I, yeah, if we miselim today I see our towncore imploding and things getting funky. which is great cause it's no fun if it's easy <3

[Gimli]

@STD yeah IDK man you're my solve I'm sorry I tunnel you everygame I promise to try and not do that but I'll think you're scum next game as well. like, this isn't a gameday I'm gonna figure out you're a townie when you're going after kyoko and suspecting the bubbaloo claimants and stuff like that. it feels like fake solving and not a town thinking through. I think you're better than this so I think it's you.

[Gimli]

i kind of believe kyoko today so maybe i'm wrong about her, it was mostly gut anyway due to POE so someone who's really townie is the last scum i think

back to the drawing board

Can you explain how you came up with this, knowing Kuzo had a vig shot and last scum is an rb?

huh? why wouldn't the scum rb him anyway because they don't know who he's shooting at?

Yeah, the fact that Fuyu was probably RBed doesn't mean that his shot would have been correct.

but that same guy, STD, is saying 'I'm impressed I'm alive because fuyuhiko was suspecting me'

like what is this?

let me grab a quote...

I'm actually a little surprised I wasn't shot last night tbh

is this playing dumb? someone tell me.

[Gimli]

the last scum is confirmed to be the RBer

pedit: okay.

[Gimli]

i kind of believe kyoko today so maybe i'm wrong about her, it was mostly gut anyway due to POE so someone who's really townie is the last scum i think

back to the drawing board

Can you explain how you came up with this, knowing Kuzo had a vig shot and last scum is an rb?

huh? why wouldn't the scum rb him anyway because they don't know who he's shooting at?

Yeah, the fact that Fuyu was probably RBed doesn't mean that his shot would have been correct.

but that same guy, STD, is saying 'I'm impressed I'm alive because fuyuhiko was suspecting me'

like what is this?

let me grab a quote...

I'm actually a little surprised I wasn't shot last night tbh

is this playing dumb? someone tell me.

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=grasping+at+straws

you're even getting pp's joke about furtive being a vampire (the roleblocker!) while playing dumb that you're surprised you're alive, when clearly by this conversation with wed you know very well the JOAT got rb'ed

I'm not gonna case you I'm just pointing at this thing.

[Gimli]

you're even getting pp's joke about furtive being a vampire (the roleblocker!) while playing dumb that you're surprised you're alive, when clearly by this conversation with wed you know very well the JOAT got rb'ed

do you not know how time works

i realized there was a rb after i made that comment

okay. if you're town stop with the potato.

do you think it's furtive? I think it could be furtive.

[Gimli]

IDK I need a wider POE since I'm the deepscum

or like, IDK

d3 feelings, you know

[Gimli]

VOTE: penguin

salt and potatoes theory

[Gimli]

in before kokichi 'omg guys you're voting stop voting'

[Gimli]

agree

[Gimli]

Good

I'm ready to clear kyoko and kokichi with this

[Gimli]

okay

we all have a similar scumpool of STD, furtive and penguin to work with

I'm fine clearing all the people maki is clearing as kyoko and kokichi have spewed themselves town this gameday (apart from being towny all game) and wed is just town