Mini Normal 2288: Reposting Same Picture As Flavor Are Lame

[geraintm]

sorry, you all seem to have got here before me.
loads of names i dont recognise.

this is the 67th post

[geraintm]

i don't really get the focus on kow's vote tbh...

also don't think andante's response to it was scum indicative rather than just andante indicative though

VOTE: penguin power

[geraintm]

Kow has too many votes for this early. Got my eye on Penguin,red, Klick, and andante. Likely at least one scum on there.

I'm at work, so this is all I'll be able to say for the next fivish hours.

Argh, naughty point for you. Yes, how useful to pick 4 players and suggest 1 could be scum....

[geraintm]

1. Why does town need to plan what they are going to do for RVS in the pregame

Oops.
Are we not meant to do this?
I'm kinda forced now, would be weird if I didn't....

[geraintm]

Kow has too many votes for this early. Got my eye on Penguin,red, Klick, and andante. Likely at least one scum on there.

I'm at work, so this is all I'll be able to say for the next fivish hours.

Argh, naughty point for you. Yes, how useful to pick 4 players and suggest 1 could be scum....

Please explain how pointing out that someone who's already got about half votes needed for lynch less than 24 hours into the game is bad. All I said is to keep an eye on those people since there's a decent chance that one of them is scum since they're bandwagoning.

Because throwing a net like that is very likely to catch one scum , it doesn't mean anything but gives players opportunity later on to say they always thought a player was scummy.

It is day 1, there is pretty much nothing anyone can do which should set off a real scum ping. Just go with the flow and wait till tomorrow. Doing otherwise will make me pay attention

[geraintm]

It is day 1, there is pretty much nothing anyone can do which should set off a real scum ping.

do you really think this ?

Yeah he does. It's a recurring theme. It makes him difficult to read Day 1 especially because it's the same M.O. every game, but he does know how to lean into it when he's scum. It's best just to disregard for now and deal with him later.

yes this ^^^

leave me alone, i think i am easily spottable when scum later in the game, and i know i am difficult to read so i have standing request to be checked out early so we can avoid worrying about me.

[geraintm]

It is day 1, there is pretty much nothing anyone can do which should set off a real scum ping.

do you really think this ?

yeah. later on day 1 actions when combined with night knowledge and votes with resolutions day 1 actions can help inform you, but anyone who states they have strong reads/are certain about something on Day 1 is talking out of their bottom.

i've answered this, lets all move along and get this day over with as quickly as possible,ive got things to do

[geraintm]

VOTE: GamerGryff

[geraintm]

Brick

, this is your third game ever, correct?

geraintm

you seem pretty unbothered.

bothered by what?

[geraintm]

VOTE: GamerGryff

If you wanted to get the day over as quickly as possible, why this vote instead of Kow?

in the past ive literally just voted longest wagon the whole day.
today, i voted for the person i gave a naughty point to.

im not sure how i am meant to play day 1 and make people happy. if i dont give ashit i get wagoned. when i don't people dislike it too.

UNVOTE:

you all do you, i'll sit here and make snide remarks.

[geraintm]

Later with 151, you agreed with

Herta

that it's easier to catch you as scum earlier.

no, i said the exact opposite. i believe i am easy to spot a scum in the late game, but i suggest that someone checks me over tonight so we avoid all that because people have found me hard to play against as scum for some reason and i want to not have that happen this game

[geraintm]

Later with 151, you agreed with

Herta

that it's easier to catch you as scum earlier.

no, i said the exact opposite. i believe i am easy to spot a scum in the late game, but i suggest that someone checks me over tonight so we avoid all that because people have found me hard to play against as scum for some reason and i want to not have that happen this game

oh
you meant "checked" as in a night action

yes, checking on someone to me is when you go and see what they are up to at night. sorry if there is another meaning

[geraintm]

lol gerain!! don't let Penguin stop you from voting if you want to vote!
That's honestly the only thing for you I'm like "what??" right now

i didnt really want tot vote, but people get mad when i make literal no effort day 1 so i thought i would try, but then people got mad at me for that...

[geraintm]

VOTE: GamerGryff

If you wanted to get the day over as quickly as possible, why this vote instead of Kow?

in the past ive literally just voted longest wagon the whole day.
today, i voted for the person i gave a naughty point to.

im not sure how i am meant to play day 1 and make people happy. if i dont give ashit i get wagoned. when i don't people dislike it too.

UNVOTE:

you all do you, i'll sit here and make snide remarks.

Where did you give Gamer a naughty point, and how did my question lead to you unvoting completing?

Kow has too many votes for this early. Got my eye on Penguin,red, Klick, and andante. Likely at least one scum on there.

I'm at work, so this is all I'll be able to say for the next fivish hours.

Argh, naughty point for you. Yes, how useful to pick 4 players and suggest 1 could be scum....

and wasnt your question, more me being frustrated with how people were interacting with me. last game i got voted off day 1 for being awkward, and i just dont want to give people an excuse this game to do the same.

[geraintm]

I’m confused

can i help with that?

[geraintm]

lets just eliminate kow y'all im pretty sure he scumslipped in RVS and his longer posts read like flailing

naughty point for you

one for yuo, one for gamergryf

[geraintm]

He knows to embrace that as scum, and he does so. In other words, it's the same game regardless of alignment. If theré's something not dependent on that, yeah why not. It's just that we recently completed a game where he was obstinately gera Day 1; it led into his elimination that Day; and it really was a waste of time and made the game harder than it probably should have been.

hey, we won!
though i think set up helped

[geraintm]

I’m not entirely sure what geraint is trying to do with “ people have found me hard to play against as scum for some reason and i want to not have that happen this game”

ive found in recent games people find me hard to read. as scum ive been left alone, as town ive been eliminated. i want to avoid that and i am volunteering to be checked tonight, it will make me much happier if i know that someone has seen that i didn't do anything bad at night.

[geraintm]

Taly, what are your thoughts around Geraintm's post 294? He gets checked N1 but holds off and performs an action N2 instead. Looks clean but clever scum play?

I cannot stress this enough, worrying about me today is pointless. It won't get town anywhere
And you don't think I am aware people will think the above? I'll repeat, if I am.scum people should be able to spot me as thr day goes on and there are enough people I've played with around that I will not be allowed to enter the end game without being solved one way or thr other.

[geraintm]

By that I specifically mean that by Page 7 I could easily see ar least one of Taly/Penguin/geraintm being scum and feeling like Gryff is a comfortable place to be

Naughty point

[geraintm]

i've a cop check on andante

she's clear

???!

[geraintm]

312 is a lot, ngl. But, it just seems like you decided 6 posts in that I am scum and then made every post I made thereafter to align with this 6 post read. Nonetheless I will indulge and answer snippets.

- To follow 70, in 106 you quote where Penguin accidentally said your name but then instantly corrected it, I’m starting to get the feeling these posts are “hey I’m here! Look I’m town!”

I van 100% see this being the case, you have my sympathy. Unless you are scum of course
Yeah, exactly what I am doing. I am new, getting a grip of the land but letting townie know I am here and at least trying to participate.

- 107 so you’re quoting Gamma who is quoting Gryff, and you go “I don’t like Gryff’s post” that post was 89, and you quoted penguin’s 100… meaning you were past 89, so now all of a sudden cause someone else brings it up, and you just say you don’t like the post, but you’re not specifying what about it you don’t like, and you also imply Gamma’s post is bad too, like, you’re quoting Gamma/Gryff and just like “This post is really bad, and this one is bad” and they’re so bad cause they “legitimize poor scum hunting” ??? like, why not go “What specifically about Red/Andante make them seem ok to you Gamma?” or something like that? Idk, I don’t like this post

So, because I answer posts out of order it adds to your scum read? Say what? You don't know how I catch up on posts or if I am posting between work, sitting on the toilet or doing a thorough catch up at the end of the day, how is that relevant?

Anyways, I gave my comments on the post. I thought Gryff just saying he thinks x and x are scum without a reason was poor, and then Gamma saying she thinks x and x are okay but not sure of the other two (again without a reason) was just doing the same thing. But Gamma's is worse because she didn't ask for his reasoning on why he thought they were scum but just enabled Gryff (and potentially others) by doing exactly the same thing.

-155 - Gamma seemed opportunistic to me, what more can I say?

Andante

, what are your thoughts on Gamma's reaction to my post? It seemed very over the top and she called me an "outed liar", other players have agreed they don't see her perspective. What are your thoughts?

-175- I would love to know your Gerain read as of this point tbh, cause you’re just “how is gerain difficult to read? They’re talking so we can read that!” ***possible TMI knowing gerain here

Gerain is my number 2 scum read because of post 247

-227: this implies you SR gamma, but like, you haven’t given any reads thus far?

Why does post 228 not count?

-228: So you give a reason for Taly and Herta town, and then you just go “Penguin town, And Andante” like, reasons?

This is the end of your argument right here, in the same post, next to '-107' part of you reason for scumreading me is calling out Gamma and Gryff for not giving reasons. And now you are saying I am scum for not giving reasons? Which one is it, you can't have it both ways. Because on this argument Gamma and Gryff just became scum leaning for you.

[geraintm]

Gerain is my number 2 scum read because of post 247

This js why I feel I can never win day 1, I sit there and ask to be checked, volunteer that people look me over and people interpret that as scummy.

[geraintm]

Argh! Just realised my 2nd previous post I messed up, but I hope you can see what I wrote brickwall.

But you are doing exactly to me what you are complaining is being done to you. You've decided I am scummy fo some reason and all my actions - even ones that to me scream town - you are twisting to be scum

[geraintm]

I'm juggling a lot with

Geraintm

because I do want to push for non-self-specific content but I don't think a vote will accomplish that.

Nope. Go and see my last game to see what will happen

[geraintm]

I've been reading everything. Trying to find something to care about, but there's nothing. I don't have it in me to BS a read on someone off of any of what's being said. And that's exactly what any read I give you would be at this point, pure BS. I have no clue who is scum and D1 could last another 6 years and I still wouldn't find any reason to scum read anyone. The only reason I have a scum read on Andante has been mentioned, and it's there and it's what I'm going with until I have information that tells me something else.

There are literally no questions I could ask or answer that are going to make me town lean or scum lean any of you right now. I've played this game enough to know that I don't have this apparent foresight that so many appear to have D1 to know and solve the game. You know how I solve a game? Information. You know what I have absolutely zero of? Information.

So I'm just going to tell you how I wish this game was played and I look forward to seeing all of you tell me it's the wrong way to play.

First off, D1 should be a quick no elimination. A quick no elimination in D1 does so much for town, in my opinion. First it tells scum nothing, they already have more information than us to start, and the only way we win is to pass the amount of information they have. So give them no extra information D1 to focus a kill and make it completely random so they have to get even more lucky than usual to kill someone important. More times than not, because I would imagine there's going to be more not so useful town powers than useful town powers, town will escape N1 without any awful deaths, allowing their powers to get a night of free actions. That means information!

Also, I would wager quite a bit of money that most D1 eliminations hit a town player. And I'd wager a lot of money that most N1s end with a night kill on a town player. Start D2 with 50% less deaths to town. I mean is it even pro-town to lynch on D1? Knowing that it's practically random at that point?

I dunno, I just wish D1 would be spent entirely making it D2 as fast as possible.

Anyways, I look forward to being scum read for my opinions on how the game should be played. Don't feel bad about it, it always happens when I make this post.

I don't have any reads on anyone else. There will never be a list today. It will all be in the moment. I will look at wagons, and I will question weird votes. I will decide if I believe role claims and results when they're presented.

In fact, just consider this intent to hammer the first E1 I see. Even if it's me.

I like this ^^^^

[geraintm]

Argh! Just realised my 2nd previous post I messed up, but I hope you can see what I wrote brickwall.

But you are doing exactly to me what you are complaining is being done to you. You've decided I am scummy fo some reason and all my actions - even ones that to me scream town - you are twisting to be scum

It isn't really the same thing though, is it? Andante literally posted saying 6 posts in she thinks I am scum, and then subsequently went through every post I made and made it align with her read.

In post 228 I said you were town leaning. My read changed when you posted 247. I am happy with my read for now and will reassess as the game continues.

But for now VOTE: Haschel, think we need something from this slot.

I still.do t get how me volunteering to be checked is scummy?

[geraintm]

My thing is this, a no-lim guarantees no wagon on a town power that gets to L1 and has to claim it to stay alive.

i had this exact same argument in my first newbie game here, but here's the thing kowah:

1.the fact you can't effectively scumhunt yet in d1 perhaps doesn't mean others with more experience on this game can't. there's quite a few games that have scum eliminations on d1.

2. you're assuming that with "enough discussion" we can be conclude assuredly that we know who scum are, which isn't true and i've learned it painfully in my time here. Even the best town players in 20 years of this site incorrectly scumreads townies and townreads wolfies quite often, mafia isn't a game you can ever be sure of anything except on a cop/mech check/clear/guilty.

proving our guesses right or wrong to see if we should continue in a given direction or reconsider is the best way to win games. we "veterans" here all do that because most of us all have come to conclude it's the most effective way to play this game.

Argh, I hate the "well we've found scum day 1 so let's do it" argument.....

[geraintm]

Shirou, read 434 from Kow

i've read it now

@kowah there's no way to "counter" a cop investigation in a "normal game" in this site

godfather is the mafia role that gives a green result to a cop but it's not allowed in this queue

I didn't know godfathers weren't allowed in here, TIL. You can block an investigation though, or do you mean if it is successful there is no way not to get a truthful result?

[geraintm]

Shirou

is shitposting? We reading the same game?

Also I just read the implication of a claim and do not think it is productive to speculate its validity right now.

I also don't think it's ever wise for town to want to get checked because it removes agency for town PR to actually discern the alignment of a more null read.

Same issue I had with

Geraint

But people are reading me wrong, and have done in other games, my request was from a genuine desire to avoid situations where town doesn't k ow what to do with me.

[geraintm]

I've been here over 15 years, and I am terrible at this game

And i only ever check the wiki when I am given a role I've never seen before

[geraintm]

I miss the old layout with the huge icons for each player

I don't follow the various love ins between players the last 24 hours.

[geraintm]

so, as far as i can tell no one who is currently voting for Gryff has posted since the threat to self hammer was made.
I wonder if any will unvote.

i almost hammered for giggles and to get to day 2.

but i think, if they are scum they are best left in the game because if they are scum there is no way they will not crack fully later on.

[geraintm]

consider that me putting Gryff in my "i don't want them eliminated" pile

[geraintm]

consider that me putting Gryff in my "i don't want them eliminated" pile

Aren't we all in that pile?

at the time i wrote it, i think they were one vote off elimination, so at the time no

[geraintm]

i don't think a blowup like that from gryff is fake

if it is fake, then them resorting to antics like that day 1 mean later in the game they'll be obvious to spot.
but someone to keep an eye on though, they cannot be given the benefit of the doubt the whole game

[geraintm]

firstly, sorry for not having been around at the end of the last day, i was in a white van driving round the country.

VOTE: Klick

I will be taking no questions at this time.

i am going to assume you have way more tucked up your sleeve about this. to me it feels like a pretty strong night action.

having seen the two deaths, i can sense a theme running through all the roles

Lazy Shirou just setting off my scumdar btw. i've got nothing more than that on them, but they feel off

[geraintm]

i am going to assume you have way more tucked up your sleeve about this. to me it feels like a pretty strong night action.

What about Penguin's post specifically makes you make that assumption?

immediate vote, no questions

[geraintm]

I think geraintm is a pretty good scum equity slot

explain...

not going to let you just toss that out without anything else

[geraintm]

firstly, sorry for not having been around at the end of the last day, i was in a white van driving round the country.

VOTE: Klick

I will be taking no questions at this time.

i am going to assume you have way more tucked up your sleeve about this. to me it feels like a pretty strong night action.

having seen the two deaths, i can sense a theme running through all the roles

Lazy Shirou just setting off my scumdar btw. i've got nothing more than that on them, but they feel off

geraintm
- does nothing all day 1, explaining that he thinks day 1s are pointless and that's his playstyle, he's not going to do much
- comes in day 2 making an excuse for not being around in day 1, despite already explaining that he thinks day 1s are pointless.
- fishes for a PR on his first post of day 2

VOTE: geraintm

my explanation of my absence is so people didnt think i deliberately ducked the end of day 1.
i wasn't fishing, no one else sit there and wonder about penguin's post? like...i almost straight up voted for Klick on the basis on that post

[geraintm]

Did geraintm make the kill last night?

nope, but i can understand why you of all people would think that.

[geraintm]

Ok herta is actuaĺly prob scum, I cant be that scummy to you but dont receive a vote

VOTE: herta

this is a bad vote

[geraintm]

i am going to assume you have way more tucked up your sleeve about this. to me it feels like a pretty strong night action.

What about Penguin's post specifically makes you make that assumption?

immediate vote, no questions

Consider that that's been Penguin's MO towards me all throughout the game prior to this

I think geraintm is a pretty good scum equity slot

explain...

not going to let you just toss that out without anything else

Frankly it's mostly a gut feeling. You've done nothing at all that looks towny. I vaguely remember in prior games with you feeling at least a little bit like you could be town in games where you were town. In this game I've got nothing and that bothers me.

It's not much but it's enough for me to feel like it might be accurate!

day 1 me you can ignore, and i think day 2 i had posted once or twice for you to come to a scum read on me? that seems real quick.

I still want to know what geraintm did last night.

i know you do.

i am like 99% happ y to join HErta on their VOTE: Shirou
their push on Herta i hate.

[geraintm]

my explanation of my absence is so people didnt think i deliberately ducked the end of day 1.

who thought that? seems overly defensive

no one said it, but i was more than happy to say.

[geraintm]

day 1 me you can ignore, and i think day 2 i had posted once or twice for you to come to a scum read on me? that seems real quick.

I had this vague impression of you throughout yesterday but felt giving it time to develop was appropriate

'A scum read' is a reductive way to describe the read I've stated on you in an attempt to further your point
My read on you is exactly as I stated in the post you quoted. And that read wasn't developed 'real quick'.

My working theory of this game is at least two scum in {geraintm, Herta, PenguinPower, redFF} with one potential deepwolf in {Taly, Shirou, Firebringer, Andante}

I think geraintm is a pretty good scum equity slot

how else do you want me to describe your read on me?

i feel it was developed quickly, because day 1 me is useless and Day 2 i had posted almost zilch

[geraintm]

UNVOTE:

this is disappointing

[geraintm]

@klick

yep, i'd done nothing that looks towny. that doesn't make me scum though. and yet you had on your vague scum feeling stuck me in your 4 person scum pile and "has good scum equity" and i was just confused how you could take that from what i had done in game.

It's not much but it's enough for me to feel like it might be accurate!

i am going to object to someone going with "its not much" to placing me in a scum pile. some people in game might have reasons for putting me lean scum that i can understand, but not you.

you are then using my response to your reasoning as a reason to go after me, because i didnt respond to you properly. but all you have given me is "you vaguely feel like scum because you don't feel like the geraintm i've played with before" - and how am i meant to respond to that concretely? i literally backed off day one even harder than normal because i knew i was going to antogonise people, and day 2 i had the one or two posts - all i can do is explain why you might be getting such a vague feeling off me (i hadnt done anything of substance in game) and i can't win with you.


"It's almost like this was the point you wanted to make about my read on you all along, but you decided to beat around the bush a bit to make it look more natural. It didn't really matter to you what response I gave."

i am not sure what the above means? all i have done is say your read on me is a bad one and you need to let it go and wait for actual day 2 to roll on before making proper reads on me, not just on your day 1 vague feeling.

so from what im getting herta playstyle is naturally scummy ?

herta is not scummy.

penguin - why the quick vote entering day 2 and then backing off? very mixed signals

[geraintm]

You want to position my suspicion of you as stronger than it is so that you can argue that I shouldn't suspect you strongly

A good way of putting my current read on you is 'everyone else in the game is townier than you'

Of course I don't have solid reasoning for suspecting you, you've not done anything substantial
But there are three scum to find, and other people are giving me reasons to think it's not them, and you're not
You're thinking too much about trying to 'win with me' or otherwise argue against the fact that you have wound up at the bottom of my PoE through virtue of kinda doing nothing

I don't have to have specific things to point at that you've done that are scummy to think that you could very easily be one of the three players in this game with a red Role PM

ho hum. i don't know how to argue against this then, as it is an absence of towniness that you are using to vote for me.
i'll leave it, interacting with you isn't helping at all. i have no reason to think you are scum (i just found your view on me odd and i was compelled to respond).
i am much more interested in Shirou....

[geraintm]

penguin - why the quick vote entering day 2 and then backing off? very mixed signals

hi. I'm penguin.

what would you have done if i had followed your vote? it to me looked like you had a guilty.

[geraintm]

oh, i'm still not taking questions.

that isnt how this works

[geraintm]

I'm looking froward to Klick trying to push this scum team

[geraintm]

I'm looking froward to Klick trying to push this scum team

Alright not all three of you then
Which one is your buddy then, redFF or Herta?

I don't know about redff, but I am 99% sure herta is town. But you cannot back off now, you are committed to this and I want you to explain yourself properly.

[geraintm]

I'm looking froward to Klick trying to push this scum team

Alright not all three of you then
Which one is your buddy then, redFF or Herta?

I don't know about redff, but I am 99% sure herta is town. But you cannot back off now, you are committed to this and I want you to explain yourself properly.

I'm committed to exactly what I've said at the strength that I said it
I'm not committed to what you say I believe

I want to look more closely at Herta soon because I don't really have a solid individual read there, I thought their posting was kinda towny early in the game
But optically {redFF, Herta, geraintm} feels like a very very good pool to lim in today

You have narrowed down on the three of us. It is a very very good pool. You are committed to that in my book....

I'm not sure what you think I am saying about your views beyond agreeing with you that you really, really think there are multiple scum in that pool of 3 -i dont believe ive put words in your mouth at all, but I really, really want you to expand on them and convince others to join you.

BTW, want shirou back in the game, that is where I am currently voting

[geraintm]

I am 99% sure herta is town.

If you're this level of confident that Herta is town, help me and everyone else see it.

VOTE: klick

[geraintm]

Are shirou and klick the worst scum pair going or is one just really bad town?

What townies when someone says they are 99% sure someone else is town doesn't respect that (you can go back and check my past games and see if i am ever this strong about something when i have pulled itnfrom mely ass) and instead just barges in and says we are partners? This is a complex game, and there is zero way I would say that not knowing it would get found out at some point in this game, and yet they just keep going.

I could be scum, but there is no way then that herta is scum too in this scenario.

But these 2 just keep on coming.
I would write more but weekend and I post less then, but this push by the pair of them stinks

[geraintm]

i'm barely reading this game and everytime i open geraintm/herta ISO they just scumpost on every other post

this menace needs to stop pls

i think i'm off again see u

Other players need to step in now with their opinions because today is going to boil down to this disagreement.

[geraintm]

hat townies when someone says they are 99% sure someone else is town doesn't respect that

"RESPECT IT"

WAMFGIWAIGAWGIM

I DON'T NEED TO RESPECT IT DUDE U GOTTA EXPLAIN THAT SUPER STRONG TOWN READ

nope.
If Shirou is off the table because Firebringer says they are town and will explain in a few days, then you have to do the same with me.
I cannot understand at all how townies can look at a person going "I am clearing a player with 99% certainty" and want to vote them out. you instead should go "well, that person must be pretty sure about themselves, i wonder what they are going to say tomorrow"

you certainly don't try and push that slot to compromise it, especialy when that player was so confident in their position they begged to be pushed because they knew it would just expose the pushers even more.

nahh

on second thought he made the effort to do that super funny video but isn't really pushing us back here

VOTE: herta~

i'm more unsure of herta being the scum but for now i'll sit here for a bit more

are people just not paying me any attention? how can you vote here? if you think i am scum you vote me first over herta.

The thing that stood out to me the most was the claim of buddying on D1. I thought about it from my point of view, being buddies with people on D1 seems like a survival tactic. It was just that tiny thing that made me think "oh, ya know, that seems like the opposite thing town would do on D1"

The only reason I haven't voted you is because I haven't done my own research to see if that's even true. I don't recall seeing you deny it.

who si this aimed at?

I'm in a pickle here. I feel like town are very disjointed currently. And this day is losing steam and I don't know how much else will be learned from it until a lim.

So my initial thought is to leave my desired lim as no one seems interested in Shirou. I see no point in pushing a new wagon, so that leaves me with the current bunch:

Klick (3): redFF, Herta, geraintm
PenguinPower (2) Firebringer, GamerGryff
geraintm (2): Klick, PenguinPower

Are the three wagons with 2 or more votes. Of everyone, Red is the only person who currently gets a solid town read from me. It makes sense to join who he is voting for. Problem with that is, I like Klick as a town lean. Our convo earlier felt nice, so I don't feel comfortable joining that wagon.

What about Penguin? I don't have a read on them or Fire as of this moment, but I've got a slight scum lean on Gryff. So that causes me to pause before voting here.

Geraintm's wagon has a town lean of mine in Klick, and a null in Penguin. So this feels like the party I want to join.

VOTE: geraintm

so you don't think i am scum, you lean Gryff as scum, but you are voting me because you like the people who are currently voting me?

[geraintm]

@klick - you have zero interest in trying to eliminate Firebringer?

if you do get to flip me and then i turn green, what is your response, what is your plan then exactly?

as far as i can see, your progression on me goes from

#282 where you suggest Vig should shoot me (your post 17)

to #946 where i think you say i am scum because no reason (that was your post 94 - you had gone about 65 posts without mentioning me)

#1000 you respond to my post aimed at penguin
#1003 - you think i am scum

#1111 - you have me as scum in a small pool

but i still never see why you think i am scum

i have since done nothing but say the reads on me are bollocks and my opinion on another player. you still havent given me a reason why i am scum besides gut feeling
post #1129

and on the basis of a gut feeling you are going to eliminate my slot - when you acknowledge the claim i am making about herta?

i want you to go back and properly explain your progression on me.
i dont want you to come up with an explanation based on the current game state, i want you to go back and explain the guy feeling and so on which caused you to place me in the small scum pile you made

because i cannot see how a townie gets to where you are now.

[geraintm]

That may seem weak. That's because it is!

Because I don't have a strong scumread on you. I have never claimed a strong scumread on you.

Vig should shoot geraintm he's probably scum but not at a level where it will be anywhere near conclusive by the end of D1

I think geraintm is a pretty good scum equity slot

My working theory of this game is at least two scum in {geraintm, Herta, PenguinPower, redFF} with one potential deepwolf in {Taly, Shirou, Firebringer, Andante}

VOTE: geraintm

See I think there's actually a nonzero chance the scumteam is exactly redFF/Herta/geraintm and they really didn't like the look of my PoE.

But optically {redFF, Herta, geraintm} feels like a very very good pool to lim in today

bullshit on it being a weak, gut feeling.
you don't keep bashing a player the way you do on a weak feeling.
you don't get to weasel and say i never had a strong scum read on you when you keep saying i am who you want to eliminate and vote for me.
and i am not allowing you to back track, say you don't have a strong read on me but oh yeah i want you to claim and i want to vote you.

i straight up voted you for your rolefishing previously and i am not claiming now.

At what point do you think it is acceptable for someone to put a vote on you? At what level of confidence must they feel that you're scum?
Because when you play the way you're currently playing, you do not produce much content that is alignment indicative one way or the other.
If you're scum, am I meant to just keep you alive indefinitely because I'm not *confident* that you're scum?
Or am I meant to use what IS there to read you and ride with it?
Because when other players' odds of being scum go

down

, your odds of being scum go

up

.

when there is a preponderence of evidence that i am scum. and there isn't anything like that now.
and there is certainly no use eliminating a player after what i have said previously today.
i am solveable in this game, i know i am, but i am not going to let your weak excuse to generate a wagon on me go unchallenged. it stinks.

[geraintm]

VOTE: geraintm
I don't vibe this scum but im not strong town either.
So w/e

gah, vibes is it again. makes a change from gut i guess.

[geraintm]

i am much more interested in Shirou....

ohhh hang on yall, gerain does stuff? I have never seen gerain pick a side... not that I can recall at least lol, but then again I don't focus on much after d1 hahaha

they were someone i wanted to see more of today, but i have backed off after the claim they were town.

[geraintm]

iso his participation today (and even yesterday)

I don't abide by hypocrites who ate'd their way out of a yeet

what does this mean? sorry

[geraintm]

*looks around for shirou effort*

*keeps on looking*

*gets lost while looking*

*dies of hunger having not found what he is looking for*

but you have cleared them as town so we've stopped looking for now.
why you throwig shade at them?

[geraintm]

By the by I never thought about it in the moment since I misplaced it but someone mentioned role madness earlier and I can confirm that's not the case

is this their claim as VT?
if so, i don't follow at all?

[geraintm]

Zero of those things say that I have a strong scumread on you.

we have very different thinking on what a strong scumread is then

[geraintm]

@firebringer

i missed the humour, sorry.

@kowahbunga

i was at one time interested in Shirou, but they have been cleared for now by Firebringer so i am not going near that now.

your vote is very sheepy.

@redff and @penguin

ok, i suppose, their post was very convoluted and so i didn't spend the time to decipher it

[geraintm]

if he flips scum i think we gotta kill herta tomorrow

i looked and i thought i had already done Gryff, must have been mistaken.

WE aren't doing herta tomorrow

[geraintm]

would be great to hear from taly before the day ends for sure

would be nice to hear from the victim too

[geraintm]

would be great to hear from taly before the day ends for sure

would be nice to hear from the victim too

Who is the victim again?

I'm an idiot, I didn't read the post and thought it wasn't from the person at the end of thr wagon

[geraintm]

VOTE: gryff
This isn't going anywhere else now

[geraintm]

I was going to give him time to answer my questions.

It felt like they had given up and we weren't going to get anything useful out of them today, and the weirdness of the self hammer offer was not good, there was nothing they could have said that wouldn't have resulted in their elimination today so I was happy to get it over with. See you tomorrow

[geraintm]

i'd rather those who haven't said they have roles to go first so they can be caught out in any missteps with their claims.

[geraintm]

I was going to give him time to answer my questions.

It felt like they had given up and we weren't going to get anything useful out of them today, and the weirdness of the self hammer offer was not good, there was nothing they could have said that wouldn't have resulted in their elimination today so I was happy to get it over with.

See you tomorrow

i went to see Herta last night, bold was the crumb

[geraintm]

I was going to give him time to answer my questions.

It felt like they had given up and we weren't going to get anything useful out of them today, and the weirdness of the self hammer offer was not good, there was nothing they could have said that wouldn't have resulted in their elimination today so I was happy to get it over with.

See you tomorrow

i went to see Herta last night, bold was the crumb

i want your full role sir.

Town Announcing Compulsive Voyeur

[geraintm]

I targetted gryff night 1
herta night 2

there were no actions targeted on either

[geraintm]

i knew herta went to to me night 1 (his roll, unlike mine, tells the target who has targeted them), so night 2 i went to them so they would know there was someone out there who was moving around and not killing. i looked for any sort of clue from gryff that they were targeted night 1, but i couldnt see it anywhere in their posts, no crumb at all

[geraintm]

I'm the motion detector. Geraintm night 1 and there was movement. Kowabungah Night 2 no movement

are you announcing?

yes, that was in my claim.
i didn't realise for a while that my target wouldn't know it was me until i saw the Loud modifier on another roll

[geraintm]

It is day 1, there is pretty much nothing anyone can do which should set off a real scum ping.

do you really think this ?

yeah. later on day 1 actions when combined with night knowledge and votes with resolutions day 1 actions can help inform you, but anyone who states they have strong reads/are certain about something on Day 1 is talking out of their bottom.

i've answered this, lets all move along and get this day over with as quickly as possible,

ive got things to do

the bold bit there was my crumb that i was compulsive

[geraintm]

i was 99% sure of HErta being town day 1 because of their response to seeing me absent last night. i had asked to be checked and i was but the way they played it just to me had them as almost certain town. others may disagree but there is no way i am ever going after herta.

[geraintm]

claims

HErta

- motion detector
n1 geraintm no movement
n2 kowabunga no movement

geraintm

- voyeur
N1 gryff
n2 herta

lazyshirou

- VT

firebringer

- Loud Loyal Visitor
N1 Shirou
N2 Andante




Clears
Shirou from Firebringer
Andanta from Firebringer

[geraintm]

@herta - sorry, am idiot

[geraintm]

claims

HErta

- motion detector
n1 geraintm movment detetced
n2 kowabunga no movement

geraintm

- voyeur
N1 gryff
n2 herta

lazyshirou

- VT

firebringer

- Loud Loyal Visitor
N1 Shirou
N2 Andante

penguin

- VT




Clears
Shirou from Firebringer
Andanta from Firebringer

[geraintm]

claims

HErta

- motion detector
n1 geraintm movment detetced
n2 kowabunga no movement

geraintm

- voyeur
N1 gryff
n2 herta

lazyshirou

- VT

firebringer

- Loud Loyal Visitor
N1 Shirou
N2 Andante

penguin

- VT

redff

- VT


Clears
Shirou from Firebringer
Andanta from Firebringer

[geraintm]

btw, the reason why i wanted those who hadnt said they had roles (me and herta in my eyes) to claim later was by forcing us to claim first with our targets it allowed scum to more easily claim vanilla town because they knew they werent targeted for sure

[geraintm]

11. Gamma Emerald. Eliminated D1 as Town Announcing Lazy Hider.
1. Brickwalll. Died N1 as Town Loud Novice Follower
10. GamerGryff. Eliminated D2 as Vanilla Townie
13. Klick. Died N2 as Town Loud Announcing JOAT (Motion Detector-Finder, Watcher-Finder, Neapolitan, Tracker)

So, we have a lot of VTs alive, I'm sure more unclaimed are VT, how are only PRs dying? Like, the Klick kill was definitely odd there, so I feel like scum may have just known him to be PR and that would explain it? but yeah, I'm seeing VT claim after VT claim, and idk something feels off.

you think maybe some might be lying?

[geraintm]

I believe there's one additional thing in favor of scum!Geraint aside from the fact he at some point assumed you got no movement on him and then changed it:

Voyeur is the role that makes the most sense to be scum here in my opinion. With so many Loud roles, it's easy to get a sense of who visited who from dayplay, so for example:

If a voyeur had targeted me at night 1, and assuming Fire is telling the truth, by N2 they should know that Fire is a investigate PR as long as I said a simply "Fire visited me" or so commentary. It's relatively easy to hunt PRs here with voyeur due to announcing/loud modifiers.

I at no point thought he got no movement on me. I knew he would have, hence me saying early day 2 when he thought I could be scum that I knew why he would think that.

[geraintm]

Did geraintm make the kill last night?

nope, but i can understand why you of all people would think that.

This was me saying to herta that I knew he had watched me and seen that I had left my house in.

[geraintm]

I don't have much time at the weekend, but are people saying my claim is wrong, or you think I am scum despite it?

[geraintm]

I believe there's one additional thing in favor of scum!Geraint aside from the fact he at some point assumed you got no movement on him and then changed it:

Voyeur is the role that makes the most sense to be scum here in my opinion. With so many Loud roles, it's easy to get a sense of who visited who from dayplay, so for example:

If a voyeur had targeted me at night 1, and assuming Fire is telling the truth, by N2 they should know that Fire is a investigate PR as long as I said a simply "Fire visited me" or so commentary. It's relatively easy to hunt PRs here with voyeur due to announcing/loud modifiers.

I at no point thought he got no movement on me. I knew he would have, hence me saying early day 2 when he thought I could be scum that I knew why he would think that.

I don't understand how you thought it made sense for him to think you're scum either if you targeted Gryff. You couldn't know he was a motion detector, so out of all possibilities like tracker and etc, I don't see how someone that visited the person that wasn't nightkilled would think it made "sense" for someone that targeted him to think they're scum

His comment that could I be a killer meant I knew that he had targeted me (because I was told that) and that his ability knew I was absent but hadn't got a result that meant he could say I was scum, just he was suspicious. I acknowledged their concern but I was confident as town they would never be able to find me guilty as scum because they never would be able to.
I was incredibly disappointed that my target never said they had been targeted by someone, because I would have been able to point to that. My night action, targeting herta and crumbling it was to show them why I was absent night 1

I merely made a typo in my round up, it was obviously nothing more than that.

If I am scum I don't sit there and clear herta in day 2 (and I did back off from it when I was told to btw, even though I wasnsure) and then let herta stay alive night 2 but instead target them with my ability.

[geraintm]

I'm not clever enough to work through set up to see who is thrme best to kill today. I just know I am not the right person to go after. Am happy to use my night action as directed.

[geraintm]

and I know you mapped a bunch out, I'm sorry I tried reading it!!

tbh I wanna
VOTE: Herta

Like, Herta has dissapeared, and isn't participating in this "what do we do?" convo, feels sus, and I previously SRed herta before

Nope, never this

[geraintm]

I don't have time to do much more than small posts

[geraintm]

I would be really surprised if Geraintm isn't scum at this point, so I think I'm at something like:

Geraintm - scum

one of [Freedom/Fire]

one of [Kowah/Herta/PP]

I think if Fire is scum we need a watcher here perhaps to balance it out. I think one of Fire/Freedom makes some sense as town in this setup but not both, and I don't think it makes a lot of sense for neither to be town as well if Geraint is scum, we would only have one more motion detector while scum has Voyeur + Watcher + Whatever Fire really is

One of [Freedom/Fire] is probably town and the other one is scum I think.

I'm really confused on who third scum may be, I think it's not impossible for it to be a traitor and that's why some interactions feel so weird between potential parnters.

If there's a traitor and Fire is scum, maybe his real role is unloyal visitor and he has been searching for his traitor or something, I don't know, that's where I'm at.

You will be surprised. Make plans for me flipping green

[geraintm]

I'm not sure what I could have done in the game BTW to not get in this posisition where people are reading me as scum.
I've not lied, I've explained all ynreads and yet and getting pushed and I don't know why

[geraintm]

I don't even get why gerain is so confident herta is town

I explained my thought process on why herta is town. Its there in my posts

[geraintm]

if Herta is scum and Geraint is town, he's hard wolfsiding here as well.

I think Geraintm is scummy by dayplay, his role makes the most sense as benefiting scum to me as a weaker rolecop, he seemed hesitant to fullclaim before Herta did, and has been too quick in my opinion to call Herta town beyond any doubt.

Then I also don't think that both loud loyal visitor and a watcher can be town given the already confirmed town PRs we've.

Herta isn't a priority to me right now unless Geraintm flips town somehow.

This planned flip of herta after me flipping green is going to turn out horrible for town.

[geraintm]

Like....I could have been 100% played by scum herta, but if so I've been well played

[geraintm]

God this is dumb.
I'm green.
Work it out now

[geraintm]

hmmm, can't say it was a fun game for me. felt like my posts had zero impact on the game and just made my own position worse. i would have been next to useless if i had stayed alive though as working my way through so many roles would not have suited me