Open 871 - The Haunted Village | Postgame

[furtiveglance]

A Vampire (Roleblocker), Witch (Rolecop) and Ghoul (Goon).

That costs 3 points, so we probably have 6 points.

[furtiveglance]

Hiiiii I'm drunk and at a party and town and have no battery left

Kinda want Wednesday Addams to be a wolf and to pocket and make a fool of me

Glad to be playing with y'all

I was also just at a party

P.S. we meet again

[furtiveglance]

I don't think any good will come of further setup spec until later, let's just try and vote mafia as usual

[furtiveglance]

I don't think any good will come of further setup spec until later, let's just try and vote mafia as usual

You're the only one that's done so?

I know, it was pre-emptive

[furtiveglance]

I'm guessing that a few of these players are alts, but I don't want to pressure anyone to out that. Maybe it's a good thing to get away from meta.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: furtive
Quite the achievement being so scummy in <10 posts.

Thanks

[furtiveglance]

Hi

I wanna townread both furtive and huyuhiko

Wishful, wistful, whimsical

[furtiveglance]

I don't know how much I like the Wednesday jokes.

Unrelated: some low effort 'busy work'. This setup has been run twice (but the setup was slightly different): 2019 and 2020. First one was abandoned but would have been a scum win, second was a town win but seemed quite townsided

Might not be useful at all but might be.

[furtiveglance]

Good work

What are the Wednesday jokes?

I don't exactly know but it's a bit 'sus'.

[furtiveglance]

Good work

What are the Wednesday jokes?

I don't exactly know but it's a bit 'sus'.

Really? Why

That's weird I wanna townread you instead of dealing with your weird stances

I just meant you seemed thirsty for a fictional character, nothing else to it

[furtiveglance]

I don't see it

I'll wait to say why to see if anyone else catches it and they have the same reasoning.

Is it this post that I quoted? I think I can create a paradox by saying: I don't see it.

[furtiveglance]

Spoiler: Kyoko/bianco

I'll answer intraquote, blue is mine

I have to things to mention regarding this post.

I don't follow the assumptions about how mentioning "Wednesday" was emotional/pocketing or in any way sus. It just was a non-game-related poke at a great username on first page of a mafia game with no game related content to discuss.

I don't get jokes much. And if I did though it was sus, I would have said so, which I haven't.

the second thing is that this post is actually filled with assumptions and no conclusions. For example in the first paragraph, you're assuming Kokichi is actually having a reason to sus STD and he is not aiming to find a reaction and make progress which is the point of RVS.

Yes. Even if they aren't, I don't see what's the problem in actually producing a reaction assuming they were, isn't that the point?

Secondly you're assuming that Fuyuhiko's vote was serious. His intentions to vote is not yet clear by any means as we have to wait and see where he is going with that line of thought.

He offered a game-related reason for the vote. I don't care if it was or wasn't serious, it was not RVS regardless.

secondly, you say voting for them might be a "soft pocketing". Is this based on some previous interaction between those two slots in another game?

No, at least not that I know of. In fact I remarked multiple time how I don't know meta

If not how you concluded that his aggressive reaction and vote is an instance of pocketing?

I concluded that it might yes. And I don't get where you took the aggressive from, I was talking about

not seeing

the stated reason for the vote to furtive.

and then you add another hypothesis and say it's to redirect attention. Why would he - assuming he is up for no good - would want to redirect people's attention away from his previous RVS vote on page 1?

there is no previous RVS vote of std on page 1, so I don't understand what you're asking. I meant distracting from Fuyuikos' vote, which I also said I don't consider RVS. And I said it myself that I don't believe in this hypothesis.
I'm beginning to think I may need to work on my language skills.

All these assumptions, told out loud, don't seem to be coming up from a game-solving perspective. Its more like putting events the way you want them to be for your goal rather than finding that goal. All that being said the way you caught up on these two pages, it looks like shading and for that, I'll put my first FOS on you.

VOTE: biancospino

Well, that's not much of a FoS if you then actually vote.

My main point is that you talk about multiple - kinda baseless assumptions - without using them to get anywhere or make conclusions.

It just seems busy working. Also, it's shady because you mentioned everything that happened in the past 2 pages - assuming everyone with a hidden scummy motivation - without trying to conclude it or commit to any decisions if they were scummy or not.

Also whats wrong with voting a FOS?

Kyoko/bianco looks T/T to me initially

Spoiler: PP

Hello Penguin

Want to expand on your biancospino vote?

Equivalent wagon + more difficult name than yours = vote to become largest wagon

I remember PP chainsawing early game in Datisi's Cafe as town so this is something he does, not sure it's +town or neutral

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I'd like to know who Crotch Goblin of Woe is at least.

Spoiler: Gimli

Agree with std on bianco

I'm gonna townread STD as well which probably means he is scum

Wrt kyoko I think her evaluation is fine, overly nitpicky is good early as it gets the game going and whatnot

"Effort is not bad" yeah but the effort seemed fabricated IMO

I don't like the bolded. Have you townread scum!STD before?

That is what I disagree with; I don't think it looks fabricated, I think it looks like stream of thought

VOTE: Wednesday Addams

I know it's a bit of a reach but I think the scummiest thing in the game has been Wednesday posting a 'first' and then disappearing from the game for the next like 19 hours

Doesn't help that all I see in front of me are nulltown or townreads. Kyoko's posting is what I expect, STD has been sharp which is good to see, furtive actually reading the introduction posts and making mech spec that's useful for town is probably very towny of him, bianco's response to pressure has been good and everyone else is at least sensible. So >rand scum in the people not posting? Maybe.

Vote + thoughts all look a bit surface level and conclusion of >rand scum in non-posters is non-confrontational in a way

VOTE: Gimli

[furtiveglance]

Im so non confrontational I'm gonna townread everyone that wants me dead apparently

If you're right that it's all in lurkers then it's big brain well played to you

[furtiveglance]

Im so non confrontational I'm gonna townread everyone that wants me dead apparently

If you're right that it's all in lurkers then it's big brain well played to you

This is just feeling like Temple. It's a shame because I like playing with you

[furtiveglance]

Which means you randomly guessed I was scum in temple and now you can't stop you won't stop

I should post less crap though, just happy to be playing is all

Temple game was more about your predecessor, but I mean that your tone here is similar to there

[furtiveglance]

I remember PP chainsawing early game in Datisi's Cafe as town so this is something he does, not sure it's +town or neutral

This isn't chainsawing?

I love wagons. gl trying to read my alignment from it.

It was chainsawing for Gimli

[furtiveglance]

No, it wasn't?

Chainsawing requires actively defending one player through attacking another player. Neither of those things are true.



Back to school with you.

Ok, so I did misunderstand what chainsawing was.

I thought it was balancing votes like a see-saw

[furtiveglance]

Temple game was more about your predecessor, but I mean that your tone here is similar to there

I'm the same guy and that's like my tone. Wanna talk about temple game for a quick second? I replaced into a nightless nightmare with scum team practically conceding in scumchat. I put my funny hat and tried to have fun in it, I didn't have a plan or really tried swinging votes in another direction. Here I might be spamming nonsense just the same but I'm working the game as I do it. Also this is the first game I play from the start since my hiatus, the other 3 completed games I replaced in. More importantly, I want to win this particular game real bad, so I'm doing my thing.

Didn't mean to take a jab at you, I know the worst made himself obvious in that game though, and there was very little I could do to sway y'all from killing me.

I didn't realise all your completed games were replacement games, like I said in another game I thought you were an alt for a bit. I also really want to win this game, because I recently made a wiki page and my winrate is terrible. Besides, no deadlines for a month so...no work for the next week or two lol. Reading that post again I'm thinking that maybe I didn't say correctly what my problem was - it wasn't just 'level 1 thinking' or whatever but that you seemed to approaching the entire game in a really charitable and forgiving way, which doesn't match up with the towngame I saw in NY Dance Party. But I haven't seen you enter a completed game before so maybe it is style.

My vote isn't fixed on you, which it would be if I was really sure I was onto something. I haven't seen enough of everyone here to get a real feel for the game, but out of the players that have posted I'm probably most sus on Wednesday and Kaito so far. Saira (?) seems like quite a sharp player so one to keep an eye on.

[furtiveglance]

why are you sus on kaito

88 is 3 quite neutral takes and something I'd expect to come from scum because it doesn't take strong stances wrt other players

Spoiler: Weds

Temple game was more about your predecessor, but I mean that your tone here is similar to there

I'm the same guy and that's like my tone. Wanna talk about temple game for a quick second? I replaced into a nightless nightmare with scum team practically conceding in scumchat. I put my funny hat and tried to have fun in it, I didn't have a plan or really tried swinging votes in another direction. Here I might be spamming nonsense just the same but I'm working the game as I do it. Also this is the first game I play from the start since my hiatus, the other 3 completed games I replaced in. More importantly, I want to win this particular game real bad, so I'm doing my thing.

Didn't mean to take a jab at you, I know the worst made himself obvious in that game though, and there was very little I could do to sway y'all from killing me.

I didn't realise all your completed games were replacement games, like I said in another game I thought you were an alt for a bit. I also really want to win this game, because I recently made a wiki page and my winrate is terrible. Besides, no deadlines for a month so...no work for the next week or two lol. Reading that post again I'm thinking that maybe I didn't say correctly what my problem was - it wasn't just 'level 1 thinking' or whatever but that you seemed to approaching the entire game in a really charitable and forgiving way, which doesn't match up with the towngame I saw in NY Dance Party. But I haven't seen you enter a completed game before so maybe it is style.

My vote isn't fixed on you, which it would be if I was really sure I was onto something. I haven't seen enough of everyone here to get a real feel for the game, but out of the players that have posted I'm probably most sus on Wednesday and Kaito so far. Saira (?) seems like quite a sharp player so one to keep an eye on.

Why are you suss on me?

Omgus on Gimli, and your entire ISO (until now) is about them apart from one alt-related post

[furtiveglance]

why are you sus on kaito

88 is 3 quite neutral takes and something I'd expect to come from scum because it doesn't take strong stances wrt other players

Spoiler: Weds

Temple game was more about your predecessor, but I mean that your tone here is similar to there

I'm the same guy and that's like my tone. Wanna talk about temple game for a quick second? I replaced into a nightless nightmare with scum team practically conceding in scumchat. I put my funny hat and tried to have fun in it, I didn't have a plan or really tried swinging votes in another direction. Here I might be spamming nonsense just the same but I'm working the game as I do it. Also this is the first game I play from the start since my hiatus, the other 3 completed games I replaced in. More importantly, I want to win this particular game real bad, so I'm doing my thing.

Didn't mean to take a jab at you, I know the worst made himself obvious in that game though, and there was very little I could do to sway y'all from killing me.

I didn't realise all your completed games were replacement games, like I said in another game I thought you were an alt for a bit. I also really want to win this game, because I recently made a wiki page and my winrate is terrible. Besides, no deadlines for a month so...no work for the next week or two lol. Reading that post again I'm thinking that maybe I didn't say correctly what my problem was - it wasn't just 'level 1 thinking' or whatever but that you seemed to approaching the entire game in a really charitable and forgiving way, which doesn't match up with the towngame I saw in NY Dance Party. But I haven't seen you enter a completed game before so maybe it is style.

My vote isn't fixed on you, which it would be if I was really sure I was onto something. I haven't seen enough of everyone here to get a real feel for the game, but out of the players that have posted I'm probably most sus on Wednesday and Kaito so far. Saira (?) seems like quite a sharp player so one to keep an eye on.

Why are you suss on me?

Omgus on Gimli, and your entire ISO (until now) is about them apart from one alt-related post

Omgussing is nia for me but to refer to my vote as an “omguss” is inaccurate. I thought his vote on me was surfacey and not really based on much. I’m also in general - especially early game focused more on people either pushing me/voting me for what I think aren’t good reasons because you really don’t have a lot more to go on.

I mean yeah I get that reaction, I literally said the same thing. But if I look at the game pre-flipping Gimli as town then your vote looks bad, which is somewhat obvious.

P.S. yeah I think I know your main!

[furtiveglance]

Eman
Pingu Flamethrower - penguinpower
Sparx
Crotch Goblin of Woe -wednesday
Unagi
Death Stare - furtiveglance
Sandra Bollocks
Uso Dayo
Modkill
Goatee - kaito
Baby Gangsta - me
Washing Machine - biancospino

This is my interpretations of the ones I think I've manage to decode.

Death Stare gotta be STD surely. No clue who I am in that case though

[furtiveglance]

Am I literally Sandra bollocks

baby gangsta?

[furtiveglance]

Im so non confrontational I'm gonna townread everyone that wants me dead apparently

If you're right that it's all in lurkers then it's big brain well played to you

This is just feeling like Temple. It's a shame because I like playing with you

Which means you randomly guessed I was scum in temple and now you can't stop you won't stop

I should post less crap though, just happy to be playing is all

Temple game was more about your predecessor, but I mean that your tone here is similar to there

i don't think gimli is like temple here tbh

Can you guys explain this for those of us who weren't in that game?

This is Temple. Gimli repped into a doomed scum slot

[furtiveglance]

Alright guys good one

[furtiveglance]

you DR people are too funny

DR?

[furtiveglance]

Dangan Ronpa characters

I see. they are all too funny

[furtiveglance]

@MOD

V/la for the next 4 days, recovering from an injury

get well soon

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Wednesday Addams

I know it's a bit of a reach but I think the scummiest thing in the game has been Wednesday posting a 'first' and then disappearing from the game for the next like 19 hours

Doesn't help that all I see in front of me are nulltown or townreads. Kyoko's posting is what I expect, STD has been sharp which is good to see, furtive actually reading the introduction posts and making mech spec that's useful for town is probably very towny of him, bianco's response to pressure has been good and everyone else is at least sensible. So >rand scum in the people not posting? Maybe.

Certainly you wouldn't be this oblivious as mafia.. Right?

Oblivious? Apart from the characterisation of STD, what do you disagree with?

[furtiveglance]

I thought that was one of my best posts

one of many

[furtiveglance]

You're townreading me?

Twas a joke

[furtiveglance]

So all my posts are trash???

Your posting could come from town

I said one of many sarcastically after you called that other one 'one of your best'

[furtiveglance]

Furtive/Gimli post way too much idk how to say that nicely without seeming like a jerk. I think there's a possibility of them to be scum, but this wouldn't be the day to figure it out. I dunno Furtive's deductive reasoning is half-baked and even penguinpower called out his misuse of chainsawing earlier lol

Are you calling me dumb? Wouldn't be the first time

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Kaito Momota

[furtiveglance]

Wednesday is town

[furtiveglance]

and of course furtive. I take a little longer to give reads on players I have very little to no meta with.

I don't know your main then

[furtiveglance]

It doesn't matter then

[furtiveglance]

Maki entrance and reads are interesting

How do you do the image blended into the background so well

[furtiveglance]

I'm frustrated at being asked to trust a meta read on a user I don't know by a user I might know

[furtiveglance]

Different maki energy from last game

Shoe on other foot? Wedsnesday vote not bad though

Is this a game you can link to, or are people on alts

[furtiveglance]

I townread Maki, need to think more about Wednesday. There's a game I need to re-read but I obviously can't say which one

[furtiveglance]

Game was off-site

Maki drags me to a lot of stuff but don't tell her that I enjoy it

What was her alignment in that game?

And I’ve got a heavy FOS on Maki for saying she knows who I am and it makes no difference. So if she’s tellingthe truth about the former, she’s very likely to be scum here. If she has no clue who I am or wrong, it’s a null but I know anyone saying especially Maki that they know who I am and sr me is making a bs claim.

It's pretty obvious because you play exactly the same way in every game on every account arghhhhhhhh

And then it's the whole thing of 'don't out me' but also 'I'm an alt and loads of my arguments are based on my main and knowing my main' which is less than fun to play with.

Sorry if this is pointed

[furtiveglance]

I townread Maki, need to think more about Wednesday. There's a game I need to re-read but I obviously can't say which one

past?

Why don’t you just click on who you think I am and metadive me and then tell me how I’m any different here from any of my other towngames?

Because then I have to refer to games, which you don't want

Do you not see the difficulty

[furtiveglance]

Wednesday, can you towncase Kaito without using meta?

[furtiveglance]

Wednesday, can you towncase Kaito without using meta?

Unfortunately not really. I don’t see what’s particularly scummy about his posts if I had no idea who he was but it townpings me because his posts are generally different as scum from what I’ve seen from him in past games.

Idk why you’re townreading Maki. Rn, she’s my#1 scumread and that goes straight to a thousand if she really does know who I am.

The way you play gives other players agency over your reads. Maki voted you as an RT apparently. They'll probably say you passed but I disagree because I think your response is meta neutral

[furtiveglance]

I'm town leaning Gimli because I think it's more likely he genuinely comes to the conclusion he did early on (about the top posters being town) as uninformed town than deliberately picks it as his strategy as mafia

[furtiveglance]

Wednesday, can you towncase Kaito without using meta?

Unfortunately not really. I don’t see what’s particularly scummy about his posts if I had no idea who he was but it townpings me because his posts are generally different as scum from what I’ve seen from him in past games.

Idk why you’re townreading Maki. Rn, she’s my#1 scumread and that goes straight to a thousand if she really does know who I am.

The way you play gives other players agency over your reads. Maki voted you as an RT apparently. They'll probably say you passed but I disagree because I think your response is meta neutral

Yeah I get it now and reaction tests are town plus+ so Maki can be town for that then. How does my play give other players “agency over [my] reads”?

Not really and that’s all I’m going to say about it.

You push everyone who votes you

So other players can choose to be townread or scumread by you

[furtiveglance]

What is your read on Kuzo?

Tone is a bit stilted but nothing I can pinpoint

I haven't read enough of this game yet, I need to read STD as well

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Kaito Momota

VOTE: kaito

Kaito didn't acknowledge these votes in their most recent appearance. Granted I didn't make a case so there wasn't much to respond to, but it's weird they didn't even comment on it.

Let me a tentative towncore that's frankly too big to be correct.

Maki/kyoko/Wednesday/furtive/fuyuhiko/bianco/Shuichi

I think all those people are town. In before all scum in this, but whatever.

So we have kaito/std/kokichi/penguin/nm sort of ridiculous POE

Kokichi probably the towniest in this row.

VOTE: Penguin

Just potatoing this game so far, and they like big wagons so let's make one with him

I'll vote here since 1 vote on Kaito probably does nothing, but I'd like to see more from them.

VOTE: PenguinPower

[furtiveglance]

I'll vote here since 1 vote on Kaito probably does nothing, but I'd like to see more from them.

VOTE: PenguinPower

Well that’s not actually valid or true reasoning but the dismantle and second sheep is noted.

I sheeped furtive's vote on kaito actually

And neither of us is scumreading you, as it's impossible to do so since you spent D1 not saying anything. Not much of a sheep but making a wagon so you can talk something which, voila

Thanks for speaking for furtive btw.

This last line is a bit strange, since Gimli's response was very much relevant. Makes me think PP could be mafia salty at 2 town voting together

[furtiveglance]

Am I ignoring something? What?

[furtiveglance]

When Gimli unvoted, I forgot that you had also voted Kaito and thought I was the only one on them.

[furtiveglance]

Fuyuhiko is giving me a bad vibe with the last pages

VOTE: Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu

[furtiveglance]

What is your read on Kuzo?

Tone is a bit stilted but nothing I can pinpoint

Think you can explain this now?

Fuyuhiko is giving me a bad vibe with the last pages

VOTE: Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu

What in particular besides what me and Gimli pointed out?

I townread/lean all of their scumreads

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: furtiveglance
This, Gimli, and Maki is my solve as of this moment.

Gladiate Fuyuhiko

[furtiveglance]

I feel like being obstinate with my read on bianco and continuing to increase in volume until something changes

Bianco is very likely scum and I'm willing to bet my marbles on it.

I feel confident about this as I believe his behavior is highly indicative of scum. I've gestured about it and I've voted him but I still feel like I'm not being listened to. I need a way to curb my own frustration before it turns into resentment.

Now I'm not telling you that my word is gospel. I'm not saying that my choice is the only one that matters, but I feel the best I could do in this situation is be forthright. There's a lot of it being D1 but this is actually the perfect time to nail unanticipated scum.

OK, enough prefacing this.

I think that bianco's verbiage as put himself is telling.

It was telling when I said something before and it's telling now. I believe that Bianco's speech does not translate into a curious townie who is considering all the options, rather a scum who is weighing on every possibility. All bianco has done is retell events.

Bianco only does what is required.

If you go look at his walls and the conclusions you can reach is that his wall was made from anything other than requirement then get your head on straight. Go look at it even on a skim. That's a wall made by scum who is getting by on the merit of effort. A few formatting and specifics is enough to whet people's appetite? His analysis is bone dry. Even himself doesn't seem particularly interested.

Bianco's motivations are lacking.

Town has a responsibility to read other players and determine their alignment. Scum pretend to do this. Interaction happens as this is a text-based game. Not exactly philosophical there but I believe he is pretending. I believe this as his own responsibilities entirely are dependent on other players. Look at how many times bianco has either 1) Responded to someone 2) Clarified a point made from someone else. You should not be shocked to see this makes up most if not all of his posts outside of his "wall."

His perspective remains to be limited by choice.

Bianco was given ample time to determine how he feels about Kyoko with a direct interaction. He instead made surprise! a few observations and called it good. He limits his perspective because there is a possibilty of saying too much.

Interesting

I'll read their ISO later

[furtiveglance]

Bianco only does what is required.

If you go look at his walls and the conclusions you can reach is that his wall was made from anything other than requirement then get your head on straight. Go look at it even on a skim. That's a wall made by scum who is getting by on the merit of effort. A few formatting and specifics is enough to whet people's appetite? His analysis is bone dry. Even himself doesn't seem particularly interested.

What do you mean bone dry? I would interpret bone dry as taking no strong stances/avoiding decisive reads on players, and bianco seems to be doing the opposite.

[furtiveglance]

Are you serious right now lmao

Just answer the question

[furtiveglance]

20: you already know what I think of this. +scum.

38: a bit defensive, idk if that was warranted. I'm gonna give this a 0.25+scum.

42: this and the following are nulls. I don't know why exactly STD had to remark in #43 that #42 was stilted, I don't think it particularly was and I don't get the need to excuse oneself even if it was, but I don't want to read to much into it.

76: idk, I don't agree with this vote. While I don't agree with Kyoko's criticism of me either, that seemed to me an honest attempt to scumhunt. Scumreading them over "being too nitpicky" with that (cfr #91, #92) seems a little forced. +0.5scum

90: of this post I like how my TR is apparently, cfr 94, not set in stone. It was not actually challenged afterwards, hough one must assume that if #76 were genuine than the TR on me probably is too. The Kaito TR is also reasonable.

132--141, 179: I'm ignoring meta posts rn, at least possibly until I find the will to go read games.

144: eh, the question is legitimate. +town

157: eh, this one I like less, falls somewhere in the category of asking about own SRs. Though I'm giving STD some slack for it.

159, 165: gut readings are fine, especially this early. Fuyuhiko apparently doesn't like that, and that may be reasonable, I just don't agree that's particularly AI at this point.

180: I genuinely didn't understand this post. Does what? @STD, I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, I would just like a clarification. I'm guessing it is trivially linked to 183?
Btw, 183 seem like a genuine attempt to workshop, I'm giving it +0.25 town.

191: while I also find #38 distasteful, this response to Kokichi is credible. I guess it could be construed as attempting to negate all further attempts at using meta to read him, which idk if I like. +0.25scum.

total: 0.75+scum

Please point out a decisive read on StD here

Look at the bottom

[furtiveglance]

OK and do you think these quote attributions follow any semblance of order and are not just thrown together merely for effort sake

The order appears to be chronological

I sometimes make walls in which there are some conflicting ideas

[furtiveglance]

How can a read be decisive if the recollection of events do not match the conclusion

They do though. It's clearly an aggregate read

[furtiveglance]

How in the fuck is an arbitrary number of 0.75+ scum conclusive? That's not even a full number

SOMETIMES THEY GIVE OUT 0.25

[furtiveglance]

Why would a town assign arbitrary structure to their reads that does not follow the own posts they are commenting on

I didn't agree that they don't follow.

[furtiveglance]

So if they don't follow then how is it decisive

They do follow. Did you misread my last post?

[furtiveglance]

It's clearly an aggregate read

What is an aggregate read

What bianco clearly does

Weighs up his responses to individual posts together

[furtiveglance]

That doesn't even follow because some of his responses don't have assigned values to it lmfao

But some do

[furtiveglance]

So how can an arbitrary pattern that has no barring on the conclusion form an aggregate

The individual responses to posts clearly do have a bearing on the conclusion and form an aggregate

I think I said this already

[furtiveglance]

No they don't because the value assigned is not clarified in any significant way

Do you know what decisive means? When something is decisive, there is no room for hypothetical or random events. Yet we can see by his post alone that his thoughts are often littered with both.

You're conflating the idea of having reads with them being completely set in stone and devoid of nuance

[furtiveglance]

Please point out the nuance in bianco's reads for me

You literally quoted a nuanced read on STD

Do you know what nuanced means

[furtiveglance]

20: you already know what I think of this. +scum.

38: a bit defensive, idk if that was warranted. I'm gonna give this a 0.25+scum.

42: this and the following are nulls. I don't know why exactly STD had to remark in #43 that #42 was stilted, I don't think it particularly was and I don't get the need to excuse oneself even if it was, but I don't want to read to much into it.

76: idk, I don't agree with this vote. While I don't agree with Kyoko's criticism of me either, that seemed to me an honest attempt to scumhunt. Scumreading them over "being too nitpicky" with that (cfr #91, #92) seems a little forced. +0.5scum

90: of this post I like how my TR is apparently, cfr 94, not set in stone. It was not actually challenged afterwards, hough one must assume that if #76 were genuine than the TR on me probably is too. The Kaito TR is also reasonable.

132--141, 179: I'm ignoring meta posts rn, at least possibly until I find the will to go read games.

144: eh, the question is legitimate. +town

157: eh, this one I like less, falls somewhere in the category of asking about own SRs. Though I'm giving STD some slack for it.

159, 165: gut readings are fine, especially this early. Fuyuhiko apparently doesn't like that, and that may be reasonable, I just don't agree that's particularly AI at this point.

180: I genuinely didn't understand this post. Does what? @STD, I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, I would just like a clarification. I'm guessing it is trivially linked to 183?
Btw, 183 seem like a genuine attempt to workshop, I'm giving it +0.25 town.

191: while I also find #38 distasteful, this response to Kokichi is credible. I guess it could be construed as attempting to negate all further attempts at using meta to read him, which idk if I like. +0.25scum.

total: 0.75+scum

Please point out a decisive read on StD here

None of these points say idk

[furtiveglance]

That's clearly just a turn of phrase. In 2 of the examples they're saying "idk if I like that" or equivalent

[furtiveglance]

That's clearly just a turn of phrase. In 2 of the examples they're saying "idk if I like that" or equivalent

So if they don't know then how is it decisive

Idk if I like that = I don't like that

If this whole time you were just arguing about the semantics of how bianco expresses themself then we wasted a lot of time

Objectively speaking they've given a lot of nuanced opinions about every other player in the game, which can't be said for anyone else

[furtiveglance]

I hope you realize that I'm not trying to say using idk is scummy

I'm asking you to consider if it sounds like he's just making shit up

I have considered it

[furtiveglance]

Please consider it harder

Anime joke

The consideration is continuous, as with every slot

[furtiveglance]

Here's what I'm considering more strongly at the moment

He suggested kicking me out to add in Shuichi. How much stock do you think I put into Gimli’s towncore? It’s more flimsy than a tower of twigs!
Gimli is an immediate suspect. I don’t put much stock into this Kaito townread business myself. Third could be someone like furtive or Maki.

???

Do you scumread Kaito? I’m getting townvibes from both of those slots: furtive, Maki.

But neither of them are townreading Kaito so not following?

So why is Maki scum rather than just wrong on you and same question also to me, obviously?

I think you fail to understand that was meant as my idea for who’s scum if you’re town. I think if your town Maki is potentially manipulating you. Kaito I thought was meh, he’s at least okay now that he’s given some more incisive commentary.

Furtive I still don’t entirely trust from his weird call to stop mech spec when he was the only one to do it plus his weird interest in the number of alts

. I think I’ve kinda established my thought process on Gimli already but to be specific, I think he’s trying to mudsling a fair amount here.

Look at Fuyuhiko's reason for a 'scumread' on me. 1) All I did was establish the probable numbers of points in play, and say that was all that needed to be said. 2) I mentioned it once, it hasn't affected my reads. This looks extremely flimsy and it looks like he's trying to tie me to Gimli by appealing to the level 1 logic of voting together = mafia together

I think {furtive, Maki, Wednesday, Gimli} holds 2-3 scum

VOTE: furtiveglance
This, Gimli, and Maki is my solve as of this moment.

Again, same thing with me and Gimli and I don't know why Maki is in there. Probably trying to widen the group scumpool by including a relative/near UTR.

[furtiveglance]

if im using my magic gut it's kyoko

but i dunno it could just be heartburn

It's fine if you scum-read me as long as you present arguments that we can work with to sort your slot and mine in the process.

I think Kyoko is town

[furtiveglance]

why are you sus on kaito

88 is 3 quite neutral takes and something I'd expect to come from scum because it doesn't take strong stances wrt other players

Spoiler: Weds

Temple game was more about your predecessor, but I mean that your tone here is similar to there

I'm the same guy and that's like my tone. Wanna talk about temple game for a quick second? I replaced into a nightless nightmare with scum team practically conceding in scumchat. I put my funny hat and tried to have fun in it, I didn't have a plan or really tried swinging votes in another direction. Here I might be spamming nonsense just the same but I'm working the game as I do it. Also this is the first game I play from the start since my hiatus, the other 3 completed games I replaced in. More importantly, I want to win this particular game real bad, so I'm doing my thing.

Didn't mean to take a jab at you, I know the worst made himself obvious in that game though, and there was very little I could do to sway y'all from killing me.

I didn't realise all your completed games were replacement games, like I said in another game I thought you were an alt for a bit. I also really want to win this game, because I recently made a wiki page and my winrate is terrible. Besides, no deadlines for a month so...no work for the next week or two lol. Reading that post again I'm thinking that maybe I didn't say correctly what my problem was - it wasn't just 'level 1 thinking' or whatever but that you seemed to approaching the entire game in a really charitable and forgiving way, which doesn't match up with the towngame I saw in NY Dance Party. But I haven't seen you enter a completed game before so maybe it is style.

My vote isn't fixed on you, which it would be if I was really sure I was onto something. I haven't seen enough of everyone here to get a real feel for the game, but out of the players that have posted I'm probably most sus on Wednesday and Kaito so far. Saira (?) seems like quite a sharp player so one to keep an eye on.

Why are you suss on me?

Omgus on Gimli, and your entire ISO (until now) is about them apart from one alt-related post

Omgussing is nia for me but to refer to my vote as an “omguss” is inaccurate. I thought his vote on me was surfacey and not really based on much. I’m also in general - especially early game focused more on people either pushing me/voting me for what I think aren’t good reasons because you really don’t have a lot more to go on.

I mean yeah I get that reaction, I literally said the same thing. But if I look at the game pre-flipping Gimli as town then your vote looks bad, which is somewhat obvious.

P.S. yeah I think I know your main!

@furtive why did you make this post? Iirc Gimli was never even in any danger? And if that hypothetically had even happened why would my vote have looked bad? I guess I don’t understand the point of this post?

I was probably a bit inaccurate with my wording - I should have said that I was coming round to a townread on Gimli at the time, and so your vote (and progression, which was a large part of your ISO) on him looked bad to me. But now I think it's just a style thing.

Regarding bianco and claiming...they just said they were going V/LA. More importantly, I don't think this is a good wagon. Kaito/STD probably the worst votes on it.

[furtiveglance]

Also if bianco is a wolf is he being bussed? That was kind of a flash wagon wasn't it

I don't think bianco is. Posting, gamestate, wagon

I'm going to bed now

[furtiveglance]

I'm actually unasleep now. Kokichi, here's a question: Fuyuhiko/STD had an argument earlier. You can choose T/T, T/S, S/T or S/S.

[furtiveglance]

I'm actually unasleep now. Kokichi, here's a question: Fuyuhiko/STD had an argument earlier. You can choose T/T, T/S, S/T or S/S.

Eh, not sure. And I don't like to box people in these scenarios day 1. I think STD is likely mafia as evident of my vote, but I don't think that has any changing on my read of Fuyuhiko

Calling someone mafia is quite restrictive yeah...let's not put people in a box

I think I missed your scumread on STD

Let me ask you more directly: let's say STD has flipped mafia - is that argument anti-associative? Or could it be bussing?

[furtiveglance]

I'm 150x150px bigger now

You've also taken your cap off and turned round a bit

[furtiveglance]

Maybe for my next avi I could be Bilbo Baggins or something

[furtiveglance]

I probably won't post much until bianco returns

[furtiveglance]

StD and idk...Kaito?

[furtiveglance]

Can someone scumread me by the way, I don't want to be night one kill in this game.



I'm scared..

scum

It's time to claim...

[furtiveglance]

StD and idk...Kaito?

Why is STD scum here?

I think the Fuyu/STD argument looked contrived, that's most of it. But obviously 'wow preflips'

[furtiveglance]

Hey guys

This is looking like an easy game

bianco's vote was on Fuyu so I don't think it's them anymore

I'll read up later but I don't think Kaito's comment about the Roleblocker is towny

VOTE: Kaito Momota

[furtiveglance]

awooooooooooooooo!

am I howling or are you just excited

[furtiveglance]

It's stating the obvious

[furtiveglance]

I think we can assume Gimli, Wednesday, Fuyu, Kyoko and Kokichi are all town

[furtiveglance]

I think we can assume Gimli, Wednesday, Fuyu, Kyoko and Kokichi are all town

what do you make of the rest?

Penguin can probably ruled out due to voting bianco early on

I think it's probably Kaito, Maki and STD just aren't as towny as everyone else for me

[furtiveglance]

Penguin can probably ruled out due to voting bianco early on

Nope - I hard bus a lot as scum.

Right now I'm assuming no one's hard bussed because it's usually a good assumption to make

[furtiveglance]

I think we can assume Gimli, Wednesday, Fuyu, Kyoko and Kokichi are all town

Based on what?

My interpretations of interactions with the deceased Witch

[furtiveglance]

I think we can assume Gimli, Wednesday, Fuyu, Kyoko and Kokichi are all town

Uhh. Not really

Who in particular are you doubting?

[furtiveglance]

Kaito, can you give us some reads?

Town: Kyoko, Kokichi, Wednesday, Gimli, Furtive
Less sure: Penguinpower, Save the Dragons
Possible mafia: Fuyuhiko, Maki

Can you explain why bianco's vote on Fuyuhiko looked partnered to you?

[furtiveglance]

Here's the wall. In nice spoiler so that it won't fill the screen.

Spoiler: Wednesday

I will ignore posts I don't find significant.
118: I agree with Wednesday here that Gimli's sus on her is not really founded, in fact just posting some rvs placeholder and then disappearing is the sort of thing I'd do myself if a game were to begin while I had RL things to do -- frankly, I don't really care for the implication here that Wednesday was faking that.
That said, I'm unsure if that line of thinking is necessarily scum indicative, it is going for the easy fish though, so Wednesday's vote may be justified; it is however a somewhat agressive post (yes, I used that adjective myself this time).
As for the buddying comment, well I also saw it as already remarked, but people seem to think it was just a joke and I can get behind that, I just don't think it was a good joke.

133: I don't necessarily agree that switching votes rapidly during D1 is very scum indicative. If anything reveals some fluidity that I believe could more easily come from town. And I don't think that Gimli is "making votes for the sake of it", his votes are justified (even if, indeed, flimsily). I think this post is +scum actually.

146: that's fine, but I think asking to motivate a sus read on oneself is more likely to come from groupscum (I have no data on this, this is just based on my forma mentis. If anyone has data to back off the converse, I'll gadly hear it). So half +scum.

148: I actually like this interaction. The unvote seems to corroborate that Wednesday actually espouses the view in #133, as #142 does indeed alleviate the perception she had that Gimli's vote were just random. +town

149: whatever. The explanation is sound, and I also agree to the distaste of Gimli's vote for her, but I won't give her town cred for this.

176: see, this is a pretty inconsequential friendly banter. However, I point that out because post #127 is also inconsequential banter, and their both with STD. At this point I don't think it's consequential, but notice how STD was actually the only player Wednesday approached to in this manner (excluding quoting NM's read list, but then again lots of people, myself included, did that at some point).

total: 0.5+scum

Spoiler: STD

20: you already know what I think of this. +scum.

38: a bit defensive, idk if that was warranted. I'm gonna give this a 0.25+scum.

42: this and the following are nulls. I don't know why exactly STD had to remark in #43 that #42 was stilted, I don't think it particularly was and I don't get the need to excuse oneself even if it was, but I don't want to read to much into it.

76: idk, I don't agree with this vote. While I don't agree with Kyoko's criticism of me either, that seemed to me an honest attempt to scumhunt. Scumreading them over "being too nitpicky" with that (cfr #91, #92) seems a little forced. +0.5scum

90: of this post I like how my TR is apparently, cfr 94, not set in stone. It was not actually challenged afterwards, hough one must assume that if #76 were genuine than the TR on me probably is too. The Kaito TR is also reasonable.

132--141, 179: I'm ignoring meta posts rn, at least possibly until I find the will to go read games.

144: eh, the question is legitimate. +town

157: eh, this one I like less, falls somewhere in the category of asking about own SRs. Though I'm giving STD some slack for it.

159, 165: gut readings are fine, especially this early. Fuyuhiko apparently doesn't like that, and that may be reasonable, I just don't agree that's particularly AI at this point.

180: I genuinely didn't understand this post. Does what? @STD, I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, I would just like a clarification. I'm guessing it is trivially linked to 183?
Btw, 183 seem like a genuine attempt to workshop, I'm giving it +0.25 town.

191: while I also find #38 distasteful, this response to Kokichi is credible. I guess it could be construed as attempting to negate all further attempts at using meta to read him, which idk if I like. +0.25scum.

total: 0.75+scum

Spoiler: Penguin

65: it's possible I'm just dumb, but this post doesn't make any sense to me? There were not two competing equivalent wagons, mine was already the largest and not tied with anyone. +0.25scum.
Also I resent the implication that my user is difficult >:(

67: uhm. Noncommital, but idk how much to read into it.

135: I mean, the wiki says that buzzword is a buzzword. Though I'm willing to actually give this and 137 +0.5town, this is a gut feeling but it's just that it seems to me it is quite to brazen for a scum.

total: +0.25town

Spoiler: Penguin

Spoiler: furtive

9: I actually read this as null. I guess it could be beneficial to town to start analysing mech early, though this one remark is pretty shallow and quite trivial, so a scum could have easily made it without really hurting anything.

13: this I like... a bit less, since he was the one to start doing setup spec. I'm giving it +0.25scum for that, though the awkward thing is that I actually agree with the suggestion here.

15: eh, that explanation does not actually completely alleviate the uneasiness.

21: this is a bit brazen, I actually don't hate it. At the very least is not panicky. Let's say +0.25town.

30: same thing as for #9; it's all well and good we know that, but the utility is so little that a scum could have easily made this observation without hurting anything. I'm not gonna give town cred for that.
About the Wednesday jokes, I do believe he just meant he didn't like those as jokes, at least as of 40, so whatever

117: about PP, I don't like doing meta, maybe when I'll have the will I'll check the veracity, though I do appreciate the comment.
I'm not 100% sure I do like the Gimli comment though, in a way it's, somewhat ironically, a bit surface level. Now I like that furtive is sharing some early reads, and I'm giving some town cred for that, but that's not really enough effort for me to give much. +0.5town

129--138: meta, meta, meta. I don't know meta.

151, 158: I don't care much for the assumption that Wednesday's vote would look particularly bad after town!Gimli flips; it is true that Wednesday was tunnelly and all, but to say that would implicate that Wednesday is probably not town if Gimli is is a lot of a stretch. I also don't care about the need to comment on the optics of what will happen when Gimli flips town, I of course get that it was just an argumentative hypothesis, it's just that sussing Wednesday on the fact that she would be sus assuming the veracity of a particular hypothesis sound off. +0.75scum, not a full +scum because I liked #151 in isolation.

199: eh, may be a decent attempt to get some interactions. +0.25town

205: That's bantery. May mean nothing though.

Spoiler: Gimli

6: I though it could be buddying, but people seem to think it's just a joke and whatever, I can manage to see it being that.

22, 23: that's well and good, but, like, why? +0.25scum
(also, I noted Gimli did call Fuyuhiko as huyuhiko a couple times. Is this just a typo or there is some lore reason to it, just curios)

28: I am willing to concede this may just be a late RVS vote and go on.

39: okay, but again, why exactly is that? Like, am I wrong in getting so upset about this? +0.5scum

46: eh, I actually do like this post. It's attempting to call out furtive on backpedaling, though I'm not convinced he was in the first place. Still, +0.25town.

56, 59: the TRs are fine. I'm unsure how I should thik about being defended like this though, I'm always a bit paranoid it may be buddying. Whatever, +0.25town.

63, 64: inciting discussion; that's good. +0.5town

87, 100: idk, lots of TRs. The STD things is probably a joke, but a bit distasteful to me, though I'll leave this at null.

116: it's a bit of a stretch alright. She may have had RL issues or whatnot, I feel like discounting this may be the case is slightly rude, but more to the point is slightly going for the easy target. +0.25scum, but I'm not sure on this.

122--124: uh. What. +0.25scum

142: the explanation makes sense. +0.25town

total: 0.75+scum

Spoiler: Kokichi

33, 37: this to me seems a towny thing to do. I suppose it's possible for scum to do that to throw some easy shade, but also I don't think it would be effective at all. On the other hand, a Townie is either genuine, and so the vote is fine and also trying to see if someone else is of the same opinion to corroborate one's own is fine, or is attempting a reaction test which clearly has more utilty for town. +town.

190: this is on the same page as me thinking #38 to be slightly defensive. Kokichi here seems to be genuine, +0.25town

196: yeah, that line of reasoning is... flimsy at best. Though they're right that it would have taken us out of RVS, and doing so I believe is protown. I'm not giving extra town cred for this post in itself, since it was after the fact.

total: 1.25+town

Spoiler: Saihara

49: this post I like. I don't think it seemed fabricated concern, and it was good to initiate the game proper. +town

95--103: It was not a good job at convincing, but wathever.

total: 1+town
In all manners, my previously stated TR on Saihara stands.

Spoiler: Kyoko

50: I have already answered to the content of this post, and made clear my opinions on it. I want to say that, however, that some of the criticism in my original 78 are clearly resolved by 80, which does clear a lot of the doubts I had on her. With that, #50 does seem actual effort to scumhunt, so +town.

104: I'm not sure I understand the meaning of the embedded picture. Not reading anything wrong into it, I'm just genuinely unsure.

112: eh, that's good. Well, I don't agree completely, though this is a pretty lucid explanation that I don't see scum making. +0.5town.

total: 1.5+town

Spoiler: Fuyuhiko

14--18: eh, a little quick to draw conclusions, but not completely unreasonable. +0.25town

145: ok. Don't think it's an AI thing to say though.

149 (I also believe 152 ties to this): since you're not the first to ask, I was under the impression that a FoS was just a way to signal willingness to vote a spot one find suspicious -- and so that a vote is no longer a FoS, since you already acted on that willingness. From what I'm understanding from here, I probably understood that wrong.

154: that's actually a reasonable question, though my judgment of Kaito may be clouded, since most of the things they said tie to me. +0.25town

156: why? It does come across as a bit brisky, I'll admit that.

164: as I said, I don't think gut reads are necessarily scummy. And the tone here seems a bit sarcastic to me, which I would imagine could possibly be some sort of veiled accusation. +0.25scum (but I'm not the best at reading tone...)

172: is this remark somewhat offhanded or what? I don't get if it sais that they're reading Gimli as town for that post, or sarcastically that they find all their other post so scummy that that one is the towniest.

178: this actually shows coerency with #156 and #164, so I'm gonna put it down as a bit townie-looking. +0.25town

total: 0.5+town

Spoiler: others

• Kaito is mostly talking about me and others' interactions with me, so it would be difficult for me to comment on them. I don't have actual reasons to scumread them at the moment, and in fact
  I do like the fact they're not hard TRing me
  and are in fact willing to entertain Kyoko's points, like in #108.
  
• Not_Mafia is just null. I don't think that the fact they put themself on the bottom does necessarily mean the list is trash, I think it's just memey. I also don't think the list is of much value, looks like is there mostly as joke anyway.

This list doesn’t look great for either Kaito or Maki. Maki is left out completely but the Kaito read is strange. He seems to like Kaito but fails to give him any kind of rating.

What strikes me as bizarre was bianco saying he really liked that Kaito wasn’t “hard townreading [him]”. but like why would he even have that thought since I don’t think Kaito had even given any reads at this point but will cross check, just to make sure.

that probably does make them more likely to be aligned. it's weirdly constructed like he was somehow too aware of kaito when writing about him, even though he left both him and his other team mate as footnotes on his big MQ.

If bianco really put both their teammates as 'others', that's cold. What can you expect from undead I guess

[furtiveglance]

Here's the wall. In nice spoiler so that it won't fill the screen.

Spoiler: Wednesday

I will ignore posts I don't find significant.
118: I agree with Wednesday here that Gimli's sus on her is not really founded, in fact just posting some rvs placeholder and then disappearing is the sort of thing I'd do myself if a game were to begin while I had RL things to do -- frankly, I don't really care for the implication here that Wednesday was faking that.
That said, I'm unsure if that line of thinking is necessarily scum indicative, it is going for the easy fish though, so Wednesday's vote may be justified; it is however a somewhat agressive post (yes, I used that adjective myself this time).
As for the buddying comment, well I also saw it as already remarked, but people seem to think it was just a joke and I can get behind that, I just don't think it was a good joke.

133: I don't necessarily agree that switching votes rapidly during D1 is very scum indicative. If anything reveals some fluidity that I believe could more easily come from town. And I don't think that Gimli is "making votes for the sake of it", his votes are justified (even if, indeed, flimsily). I think this post is +scum actually.

146: that's fine, but I think asking to motivate a sus read on oneself is more likely to come from groupscum (I have no data on this, this is just based on my forma mentis. If anyone has data to back off the converse, I'll gadly hear it). So half +scum.

148: I actually like this interaction. The unvote seems to corroborate that Wednesday actually espouses the view in #133, as #142 does indeed alleviate the perception she had that Gimli's vote were just random. +town

149: whatever. The explanation is sound, and I also agree to the distaste of Gimli's vote for her, but I won't give her town cred for this.

176: see, this is a pretty inconsequential friendly banter. However, I point that out because post #127 is also inconsequential banter, and their both with STD. At this point I don't think it's consequential, but notice how STD was actually the only player Wednesday approached to in this manner (excluding quoting NM's read list, but then again lots of people, myself included, did that at some point).

total: 0.5+scum

Spoiler: STD

20: you already know what I think of this. +scum.

38: a bit defensive, idk if that was warranted. I'm gonna give this a 0.25+scum.

42: this and the following are nulls. I don't know why exactly STD had to remark in #43 that #42 was stilted, I don't think it particularly was and I don't get the need to excuse oneself even if it was, but I don't want to read to much into it.

76: idk, I don't agree with this vote. While I don't agree with Kyoko's criticism of me either, that seemed to me an honest attempt to scumhunt. Scumreading them over "being too nitpicky" with that (cfr #91, #92) seems a little forced. +0.5scum

90: of this post I like how my TR is apparently, cfr 94, not set in stone. It was not actually challenged afterwards, hough one must assume that if #76 were genuine than the TR on me probably is too. The Kaito TR is also reasonable.

132--141, 179: I'm ignoring meta posts rn, at least possibly until I find the will to go read games.

144: eh, the question is legitimate. +town

157: eh, this one I like less, falls somewhere in the category of asking about own SRs. Though I'm giving STD some slack for it.

159, 165: gut readings are fine, especially this early. Fuyuhiko apparently doesn't like that, and that may be reasonable, I just don't agree that's particularly AI at this point.

180: I genuinely didn't understand this post. Does what? @STD, I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, I would just like a clarification. I'm guessing it is trivially linked to 183?
Btw, 183 seem like a genuine attempt to workshop, I'm giving it +0.25 town.

191: while I also find #38 distasteful, this response to Kokichi is credible. I guess it could be construed as attempting to negate all further attempts at using meta to read him, which idk if I like. +0.25scum.

total: 0.75+scum

Spoiler: Penguin

65: it's possible I'm just dumb, but this post doesn't make any sense to me? There were not two competing equivalent wagons, mine was already the largest and not tied with anyone. +0.25scum.
Also I resent the implication that my user is difficult >:(

67: uhm. Noncommital, but idk how much to read into it.

135: I mean, the wiki says that buzzword is a buzzword. Though I'm willing to actually give this and 137 +0.5town, this is a gut feeling but it's just that it seems to me it is quite to brazen for a scum.

total: +0.25town

Spoiler: Penguin

Spoiler: furtive

9: I actually read this as null. I guess it could be beneficial to town to start analysing mech early, though this one remark is pretty shallow and quite trivial, so a scum could have easily made it without really hurting anything.

13: this I like... a bit less, since he was the one to start doing setup spec. I'm giving it +0.25scum for that, though the awkward thing is that I actually agree with the suggestion here.

15: eh, that explanation does not actually completely alleviate the uneasiness.

21: this is a bit brazen, I actually don't hate it. At the very least is not panicky. Let's say +0.25town.

30: same thing as for #9; it's all well and good we know that, but the utility is so little that a scum could have easily made this observation without hurting anything. I'm not gonna give town cred for that.
About the Wednesday jokes, I do believe he just meant he didn't like those as jokes, at least as of 40, so whatever

117: about PP, I don't like doing meta, maybe when I'll have the will I'll check the veracity, though I do appreciate the comment.
I'm not 100% sure I do like the Gimli comment though, in a way it's, somewhat ironically, a bit surface level. Now I like that furtive is sharing some early reads, and I'm giving some town cred for that, but that's not really enough effort for me to give much. +0.5town

129--138: meta, meta, meta. I don't know meta.

151, 158: I don't care much for the assumption that Wednesday's vote would look particularly bad after town!Gimli flips; it is true that Wednesday was tunnelly and all, but to say that would implicate that Wednesday is probably not town if Gimli is is a lot of a stretch. I also don't care about the need to comment on the optics of what will happen when Gimli flips town, I of course get that it was just an argumentative hypothesis, it's just that sussing Wednesday on the fact that she would be sus assuming the veracity of a particular hypothesis sound off. +0.75scum, not a full +scum because I liked #151 in isolation.

199: eh, may be a decent attempt to get some interactions. +0.25town

205: That's bantery. May mean nothing though.

Spoiler: Gimli

6: I though it could be buddying, but people seem to think it's just a joke and whatever, I can manage to see it being that.

22, 23: that's well and good, but, like, why? +0.25scum
(also, I noted Gimli did call Fuyuhiko as huyuhiko a couple times. Is this just a typo or there is some lore reason to it, just curios)

28: I am willing to concede this may just be a late RVS vote and go on.

39: okay, but again, why exactly is that? Like, am I wrong in getting so upset about this? +0.5scum

46: eh, I actually do like this post. It's attempting to call out furtive on backpedaling, though I'm not convinced he was in the first place. Still, +0.25town.

56, 59: the TRs are fine. I'm unsure how I should thik about being defended like this though, I'm always a bit paranoid it may be buddying. Whatever, +0.25town.

63, 64: inciting discussion; that's good. +0.5town

87, 100: idk, lots of TRs. The STD things is probably a joke, but a bit distasteful to me, though I'll leave this at null.

116: it's a bit of a stretch alright. She may have had RL issues or whatnot, I feel like discounting this may be the case is slightly rude, but more to the point is slightly going for the easy target. +0.25scum, but I'm not sure on this.

122--124: uh. What. +0.25scum

142: the explanation makes sense. +0.25town

total: 0.75+scum

Spoiler: Kokichi

33, 37: this to me seems a towny thing to do. I suppose it's possible for scum to do that to throw some easy shade, but also I don't think it would be effective at all. On the other hand, a Townie is either genuine, and so the vote is fine and also trying to see if someone else is of the same opinion to corroborate one's own is fine, or is attempting a reaction test which clearly has more utilty for town. +town.

190: this is on the same page as me thinking #38 to be slightly defensive. Kokichi here seems to be genuine, +0.25town

196: yeah, that line of reasoning is... flimsy at best. Though they're right that it would have taken us out of RVS, and doing so I believe is protown. I'm not giving extra town cred for this post in itself, since it was after the fact.

total: 1.25+town

Spoiler: Saihara

49: this post I like. I don't think it seemed fabricated concern, and it was good to initiate the game proper. +town

95--103: It was not a good job at convincing, but wathever.

total: 1+town
In all manners, my previously stated TR on Saihara stands.

Spoiler: Kyoko

50: I have already answered to the content of this post, and made clear my opinions on it. I want to say that, however, that some of the criticism in my original 78 are clearly resolved by 80, which does clear a lot of the doubts I had on her. With that, #50 does seem actual effort to scumhunt, so +town.

104: I'm not sure I understand the meaning of the embedded picture. Not reading anything wrong into it, I'm just genuinely unsure.

112: eh, that's good. Well, I don't agree completely, though this is a pretty lucid explanation that I don't see scum making. +0.5town.

total: 1.5+town

Spoiler: Fuyuhiko

14--18: eh, a little quick to draw conclusions, but not completely unreasonable. +0.25town

145: ok. Don't think it's an AI thing to say though.

149 (I also believe 152 ties to this): since you're not the first to ask, I was under the impression that a FoS was just a way to signal willingness to vote a spot one find suspicious -- and so that a vote is no longer a FoS, since you already acted on that willingness. From what I'm understanding from here, I probably understood that wrong.

154: that's actually a reasonable question, though my judgment of Kaito may be clouded, since most of the things they said tie to me. +0.25town

156: why? It does come across as a bit brisky, I'll admit that.

164: as I said, I don't think gut reads are necessarily scummy. And the tone here seems a bit sarcastic to me, which I would imagine could possibly be some sort of veiled accusation. +0.25scum (but I'm not the best at reading tone...)

172: is this remark somewhat offhanded or what? I don't get if it sais that they're reading Gimli as town for that post, or sarcastically that they find all their other post so scummy that that one is the towniest.

178: this actually shows coerency with #156 and #164, so I'm gonna put it down as a bit townie-looking. +0.25town

total: 0.5+town

Spoiler: others

• Kaito is mostly talking about me and others' interactions with me, so it would be difficult for me to comment on them. I don't have actual reasons to scumread them at the moment, and in fact
  I do like the fact they're not hard TRing me
  and are in fact willing to entertain Kyoko's points, like in #108.
  
• Not_Mafia is just null. I don't think that the fact they put themself on the bottom does necessarily mean the list is trash, I think it's just memey. I also don't think the list is of much value, looks like is there mostly as joke anyway.

This list doesn’t look great for either Kaito or Maki. Maki is left out completely but the Kaito read is strange. He seems to like Kaito but fails to give him any kind of rating.

What strikes me as bizarre was bianco saying he really liked that Kaito wasn’t “hard townreading [him]”. but like why would he even have that thought since I don’t think Kaito had even given any reads at this point but will cross check, just to make sure.

that probably does make them more likely to be aligned. it's weirdly constructed like he was somehow too aware of kaito when writing about him, even though he left both him and his other team mate as footnotes on his big MQ.

If bianco really put both their teammates as 'others', that's cold. What can you expect from undead I guess

NM though would be understandable since he did absolutely nothing other than make a highly entertaining readslist.

I don't see myself as death stare, more like a resigned look

Your avi is somehow in time with every song I listen to

[furtiveglance]

What happened to spoiler tags?

[furtiveglance]

Spoiler: testing

What happened to spoiler tags?

Use [ spoiler = ] NOT [ spoiler minus the equal symbol ]

Spoiler: If there's one player that the group consensus isn't suspicious of but I'm secretly paranoid about, it's:

made you look

[furtiveglance]

I like looking even when I know what's gonna be there

[furtiveglance]

Good job on shooting a Ghoul. shoot for goal pun

Might as well follow the claimed TPR's vote

VOTE: Maki Harukawa

[furtiveglance]

Oh so Kaito was capping. Fuyu has no reason to lie here

VOTE: Kaito Momota

[furtiveglance]

I wish this game was more interesting than it turned out to be cause it's always good to play with friends

Fun times had by all

[furtiveglance]

Gimli is joking. I'm confused by Kokichi's claim though because it looks serious. I can see town motivation for Maki to lie if they wanted to draw the nightkill as a VT, but I still wouldn't recommend it. I'm sure we'll find out soon regardless

[furtiveglance]

I think Kaito is just lying still regardless

[furtiveglance]

First.

Second

Kokichi/Maki have some 'splainin to do. 6 points of PRs are dead, so Undead must have underspent unless they're

both

lying. But for them both to be PR, scum would have had to underspend by more than one point at least, which seems really unlikely. I'm expecting a retraction here.

[furtiveglance]

hi Gimli

[furtiveglance]

I’ll be upfront since I think town’s early advantage makes this an affordable choice: I have a green check on Maki.

maki clear
6 points from our flips + kokichi and maki are also claiming PR.

it's not important what they are RN so they don't need to claim.

I think the last wolf is either STD or pp

Right Maki is clear.

Do you think Kokichi would lie as town? Or are you considering scum underspending by at least 2 points to troll us?

[furtiveglance]

STD scumcase: he is scummy and fakesolving. I don't buy it.
pp scumcase: he is a mountain of

salt

cause his team mates were

potatoes

.

I suggest we go with one of them today.

Could salt and potatoes be linked

[furtiveglance]

kokichi claimed at f'ing twilight, I think it's extremely unlikely he is actually scum

Lying as town could mess with the Night Actions though, I don't see the motivation for it

I'll wait for Kokichi to come on, but FOS there

[furtiveglance]

If you think both claims are real, it means that scum decided to waste at least 2 points for no reason, with which they could have replaced the Ghoul with a better role.

[furtiveglance]

The fact that only one of you that voted Kaito is mafia is mind blowing

It looked like a desperation claim to me with the other 2 claims taken into account

[furtiveglance]

The fact that only one of you that voted Kaito is mafia is mind blowing

It looked like a desperation claim to me with the other 2 claims taken into account

It was pretty obvious Maki was trying to roleswap. Which is why I tried to say unvote without actually saying it. I tried to confuse Mafia at twilight but it just wasnt gonna happen.

How was it obvious? I considered it and mentioned the idea of Maki trying to die, but dismissed it because a clear will always die anyway and there's no need to displace the actual PRs.

[furtiveglance]

The fact that only one of you that voted Kaito is mafia is mind blowing

It looked like a desperation claim to me with the other 2 claims taken into account

It was pretty obvious Maki was trying to roleswap. Which is why I tried to say unvote without actually saying it. I tried to confuse Mafia at twilight but it just wasnt gonna happen.

wait so you're not a PR
and maki isn't a PR either
so it's indeed 6 points
let's just play mafia then, enough mech talk this is mountainous

Are you just trusting Kokichi's read into Maki's role here

[furtiveglance]

I'm actually a little surprised I wasn't shot last night tbh

I'll bite - why?

[furtiveglance]

I thought furyhiko found me scummy

Ok I thought you meant the nightkill

[furtiveglance]

I'll bite

chomp

It means I'll ask the question that's hanging in the air

[furtiveglance]

Tomorrow just think about kyoko

I am thinking, it's continuous

Quote some sus posts maybe?

[furtiveglance]

That would be wild

If you were mafia it would be mild

[furtiveglance]

chomp

It means I'll ask the question that's hanging in the air

The undead team consists of a Vampire

I'll bite

Vampires suck blood don't they? I guess you have to bite first

chomp, no regrets

[furtiveglance]

Yeah we could have had auto but I think it's still hard to lose, because I think you/Gimli/Wednesday are all town and Maki is conf

[furtiveglance]

Top 3 suspects

1. SaveTheDragons
2. PenguinPower
3. Kokichi Oma

[furtiveglance]

every post by STD my mind goes 'yeah this is scum posturing'

wed you're so towny how can you be so towny

we don't know if maki misplayed or if she is PR yet

I, yeah, if we miselim today I see our towncore imploding and things getting funky. which is great cause it's no fun if it's easy <3

Can't have funky without fun

STD is giving me pause with probably the same posts you see as posturing
I think PenguinPower is less likely for some reason

Kokichi is probably just annoying town

[furtiveglance]

i kind of believe kyoko today so maybe i'm wrong about her, it was mostly gut anyway due to POE so someone who's really townie is the last scum i think

back to the drawing board

Can you explain how you came up with this, knowing Kuzo had a vig shot and last scum is an rb?

huh? why wouldn't the scum rb him anyway because they don't know who he's shooting at?

Yeah, the fact that Fuyu was probably RBed doesn't mean that his shot would have been correct.

[furtiveglance]

This seems like a slightly pointless argument

I don't like doing nothing

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

[furtiveglance]

Why are we even voting right now before the clear has even said anything yet

It wasn't a hammer it was E-4 or something

[furtiveglance]

i don't like any of furtive's suspects tbh

Yeah me neither, glad we agree

[furtiveglance]

Why are we even voting right now before the clear has even said anything yet

It wasn't a hammer it was E-4 or something

You saw how quickly votes piled yesterday, why even bother contributing?

It's a statement of intent

I'll post again when Maki comes back

[furtiveglance]

you're even getting pp's joke about furtive being a vampire (the roleblocker!) while playing dumb that you're surprised you're alive, when clearly by this conversation with wed you know very well the JOAT got rb'ed

do you not know how time works

i realized there was a rb after i made that comment

okay. if you're town stop with the potato.

do you think it's furtive? I think it could be furtive.

When did you start feeling this way

[furtiveglance]

Giving up moment?

VOTE: PenguinPower

[furtiveglance]

Voting off

anyone

is literally bad gameplay and we should no lim until ELO for results

[furtiveglance]

Giving up moment?

VOTE: PenguinPower

pls do, let me enjoy peace of not having to put up with kokichi

That was here.

Damn

[furtiveglance]

i was half joking earlier about furtive being scum but he probably is

oh I thought u were

[furtiveglance]

Thanks I try

[furtiveglance]

why are you sus on kaito

88 is 3 quite neutral takes and something I'd expect to come from scum because it doesn't take strong stances wrt other players

Spoiler: Weds

Temple game was more about your predecessor, but I mean that your tone here is similar to there

I'm the same guy and that's like my tone. Wanna talk about temple game for a quick second? I replaced into a nightless nightmare with scum team practically conceding in scumchat. I put my funny hat and tried to have fun in it, I didn't have a plan or really tried swinging votes in another direction. Here I might be spamming nonsense just the same but I'm working the game as I do it. Also this is the first game I play from the start since my hiatus, the other 3 completed games I replaced in. More importantly, I want to win this particular game real bad, so I'm doing my thing.

Didn't mean to take a jab at you, I know the worst made himself obvious in that game though, and there was very little I could do to sway y'all from killing me.

I didn't realise all your completed games were replacement games, like I said in another game I thought you were an alt for a bit. I also really want to win this game, because I recently made a wiki page and my winrate is terrible. Besides, no deadlines for a month so...no work for the next week or two lol. Reading that post again I'm thinking that maybe I didn't say correctly what my problem was - it wasn't just 'level 1 thinking' or whatever but that you seemed to approaching the entire game in a really charitable and forgiving way, which doesn't match up with the towngame I saw in NY Dance Party. But I haven't seen you enter a completed game before so maybe it is style.

My vote isn't fixed on you, which it would be if I was really sure I was onto something. I haven't seen enough of everyone here to get a real feel for the game, but out of the players that have posted I'm probably most sus on Wednesday and Kaito so far. Saira (?) seems like quite a sharp player so one to keep an eye on.

Why are you suss on me?

Omgus on Gimli, and your entire ISO (until now) is about them apart from one alt-related post

Omgussing is nia for me but to refer to my vote as an “omguss” is inaccurate. I thought his vote on me was surfacey and not really based on much. I’m also in general - especially early game focused more on people either pushing me/voting me for what I think aren’t good reasons because you really don’t have a lot more to go on.

I mean yeah I get that reaction, I literally said the same thing. But if I look at the game pre-flipping Gimli as town then your vote looks bad, which is somewhat obvious.

P.S. yeah I think I know your main!

Furtive, did you ever explain this? Because first off, Gimli was never in any danger at the time of my vote and it’s hard to not view this as a possible tmi read?

Yeah I explained at some point that my Gimli read was trending upwards more than I had expressed at the time, and the omgus looked bad

[furtiveglance]

Good work

What are the Wednesday jokes?

I don't exactly know but it's a bit 'sus'.

Really? Why

That's weird I wanna townread you instead of dealing with your weird stances

I just meant you seemed thirsty for a fictional character, nothing else to it

Why were the Wednesday jokes suss? I view it as totally nia and why would Gimli or anyone else for that matter “be thirsty for a fictional character”?

Like furtive, this is kind of a contradiction. How did you get from thinking the Wednesday jokes were suss to nia reading it?

The 'sus' is in quote marks because it wasn't meant as a read

[furtiveglance]

Game was off-site

Maki drags me to a lot of stuff but don't tell her that I enjoy it

What was her alignment in that game?

And I’ve got a heavy FOS on Maki for saying she knows who I am and it makes no difference. So if she’s tellingthe truth about the former, she’s very likely to be scum here. If she has no clue who I am or wrong, it’s a null but I know anyone saying especially Maki that they know who I am and sr me is making a bs claim.

It's pretty obvious because you play exactly the same way in every game on every account arghhhhhhhh

And then it's the whole thing of 'don't out me' but also 'I'm an alt and loads of my arguments are based on my main and knowing my main' which is less than fun to play with.

Sorry if this is pointed

bianco also pointed this out but it wasn’t me who said anything about my account initially, so I didn’t think that was a fair thing to say but since you do know who I am, I don’t understand why it would have even bothered you?

It was partly the sense that a few of the players in this game are/were alts and that gave other players an advantage in a way

[furtiveglance]

you should ask furtive

Yeah Neck Biting 101 changed my life, Dr. Acula is a goated lecturer

[furtiveglance]

group consensus seems to be me STD and PP and I think it's one of them so yeah

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

[furtiveglance]

pre-flipping means looking at the game treating a player as town

[furtiveglance]

Yeah I thought Gimli was making a weird joke

[furtiveglance]

pre-flipping means looking at the game treating a player as town

But why when he wasn’t remotely in any danger? Besides. I can understand someone making that comment about themselves or if you have an inno on someone like Kuzo did Maki but it just seems odd to me, your extreme confidence at that point that Gimli would flip town.

Clarify: depends on the reasoning I guess but I generally don’t say to another player when someone else is being voted * who’s not me, who’s not in danger that I don’t have an inno on, that they’re going to look bad when other slot flips.

I would be far more likely to assert my confidence in my townread of them and tell the other player that maybe it’s a bad vote at the most but not that they will look bad on their flip.

I wasn't warning you, I was explaining my early scumread of you. I think we're going round in circles a bit

[furtiveglance]

You're obsessing over the language I used, and interpreting me saying

I was conditionally viewing the game in a certain way

as me saying

I thought Gimli was going to get flipped soon

, which I wasn't.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Penguin

[furtiveglance]

relatable^

[furtiveglance]

I see I'm at E-2
Fairly obvious that I'm a Villager
No need to reiterate my reads, they haven't changed
I would go STD first I think

[furtiveglance]

I see I'm at E-2
Fairly obvious that I'm a Villager
No need to reiterate my reads, they haven't changed
I would go STD first I think

Why is is obvious and why is STD scum?

Because I think if it were that obvious, you wouldn’t currently be my top scumread.

When you’re super obvtown, I usually see it and the one time I think I was wrong on you was based more on PoE than anything else and my read on you isn’t based on Poe.

If you think you’re alignment is so obvious, explain why then because I’m not seeing it?

I meant it was fairly obvious that I'm a Villager

claim

I can see why I'm suspicious if you view associatives in quite a rigidly logical way, but that's obviously not always foolproof.

It certainly feels like this is based on PoE. Which is fine, I'm certainly not getting nightkilled anytime soon and I'd rather not be the game-losing vote.

I can't see Mafia in [you, Gimli, Kyoko, Kokichi, Maki] for the life of me so gg if that's the case

[furtiveglance]

I don't think I'm obviously town. Read again what I said - I'm obviously a Villager

claim

If you're asking me to towncase myself, for future reference I'd say that I wouldn't argue with another player about how towny my teammate is as Mafia.

[furtiveglance]

I did directly resond to you many times - it often involved clarifying something that you'd misconstrued.

As for PoE, I meant the group in general.

[furtiveglance]

Not directly, no.

[furtiveglance]

Yeah I get that.

[furtiveglance]

should we No lim forever^?

[furtiveglance]

Tonight:

[furtiveglance]

wow

This is quite annoying

[furtiveglance]

Maybe it was

I thought bianco was pretty towny and didn't get the wagon

Another clown moment for me

[furtiveglance]

furitive has to die

cri

[furtiveglance]

Vote me then. I think town wins anyway

[furtiveglance]

I am not. I've been very clear that I think [Penguin, STD] has the last mafia, and I think those two will be voted in the coming days

[furtiveglance]

I am not. I've been very clear that I think [Penguin, STD] has the last mafia, and I think those two will be voted in the coming days

case them both. which one is more likely scum to you and why? Why everyone else is town to you

make a read list if you can

PenguinPower for lolcatting

STD has seemed slightly more genuine

Everyone else just seems really obviously town

[furtiveglance]

1) what anime are you from

[furtiveglance]

Do I have a reputation as mislim bait? I don't think I get mislimmed that much

[furtiveglance]

Well, you're not gonna like this game...

[furtiveglance]

In the games I've seen you that's all that's happened to you.

Not many games then

[furtiveglance]

Kokichi can I just say that's also true of me

[furtiveglance]

fingers crossed for postgame

Don't think so mate, I've only got 4 votes

[furtiveglance]

ah

well

self vote and let's end this

Only scum self-vote

[furtiveglance]

I can only imagine how it is to be scum against a town that's composed of nothing but towny danganronpa characters who are all townreading each other

it must be hell

ask PenguinPower

[furtiveglance]

?
I was town
No redactions in my 'notes' PT

[furtiveglance]

What do you guys think, is 3 Cop/Vig/Track JOATs and a Rolestopper vs Rolecop/RBer/Goon balanced?

[furtiveglance]

I can only imagine how it is to be scum against a town that's composed of nothing but towny danganronpa characters who are all townreading each other

it must be hell

Yeah it sucked, as you'll see in the PT we were grumbling about players meta reading each other on alts and it's just like...bruh

[furtiveglance]

Grrr

[furtiveglance]

unwnd were you a player?

[furtiveglance]

Yes I was Saihara

Wasn't a secret account or anything

I'm impressed, I had some praise/grumble for you in the scum PT

[furtiveglance]

why did scum waste their points?

you could have had 1 extra role cop instead of a goon or to pick in other ways

We weren't allowed to double up on a role. We considered Immortal (Godfather) over Vampire (Roleblocker) as you'll see, and even Death Knight (Avenger) over Witch (Rolecop)

[furtiveglance]

Yeah. Make it so Town don't know what roles we have. ^^

[furtiveglance]

I can only imagine how it is to be scum against a town that's composed of nothing but towny danganronpa characters who are all townreading each other

it must be hell

I thought Fuyu and Kaito was prob scum until they claimed PR.

That was the thing, the entire scumpool claimed PR on D2 and I was just...

[furtiveglance]

Gamma were you in this?! lol