Mini 2287: AB:LoAF (Postgame)

[Aisa]

This setup makes me very happy and bouncy
VOTE: Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu

[Aisa]

What's the opposite of a potato? Anti-potato?
...Unpotato.

I claim Unpotato. I want to try to keep a list of claims in my ISO, in case you are reading this in the faraway future of May 2023, this game in is Night 11, and you've just subbed in.

[Aisa]

Kokichi Oma, have you played with N_M before?

[Aisa]

People's roles so far:
Gimli: Potato Propagandist, aligned with the Potato Tyranny
Aisa: Safeguarder of the universe against the Potato Tyranny
Herta: Yam

[Aisa]

Besides memes, why would the meta janitor leave out N_M?

I noticed that as well. Could just be mind games? If anything I doubt N_M would be janitor and choose themself not to redact.

Kokichi Oma, have you played with N_M before?

Yeah, I know they can be a bit of a troll at times.

Right… which is why if anything I feel like not redacting themselves is exactly in their wheelhouse, don’t you think?

[Aisa]

VOTE: Herta

Scum mindset, claiming miller instantly is scummy tactic

Why is it scummy?

[Aisa]

I think the value of a massclaim would depend to a large extent on the tradeoff between {telling scum who to kill / roleblock / mess with} and {better night action coordination / information / locking scum into a lie}, it seems very very dependent on the exact setup we have. Seems like it ultimately comes down to player preference and my preference is to not do it, but this is a democracy. I guess that if we mess up worst case we could still attempt to Mountainous the setup.

On a semi-related note, I can't think of a super obvious reason for why Herta shouldn't full claim, I don't think not knowing the exact flavour of miller will cause scum to slip or anything like that.

[Aisa]

VOTE: TemporalLich

[Aisa]

Claiming miller instantly is how you play miller, no?

Also maybe I'm starting to townread aisa, seems like a happy bunny that's towning the thread with bouncy energy

Kinda thought you claim miller either late D1 or early D2

Claiming miller after a red check is too late however.

The way I see it, the earlier one claims pretty much anything during a day phase the better - less pre-existing info, less time to plan a claim. Why did you think this?

[Aisa]

I want fun and games and memes, massclaiming isn't any of these things and I'm not reading mech yet.. maybe some other time

Who's had the best fun and games and memes so far?

[Aisa]

Sorry, kinda busy today so you won’t get much from me but

I got backed into overconfidence and backing down would be scummy

Tell me more about this and what made you feel backed into overconfidence?

[Aisa]

tbh I've forgotten my role this game and I'm going to keep it that way

Now that's a scum mindset

I want fun and games and memes, massclaiming isn't any of these things and I'm not reading mech yet.. maybe some other time

Who's had the best fun and games and memes so far?

You're all the game's fun so far
[...]

*twinkle*
Ok sorry I repent I apologise for fishing for compliments

On a semi-related note, I can't think of a super obvious reason for why Herta shouldn't full claim, I don't think not knowing the exact flavour of miller will cause scum to slip or anything like that.

This is fair. There's nothing scum gains here other than a heads up. It's a universal miller which means that my check returns the smallest faction that exists at the beginning of the game. Which I think will be useful to learn. I don't know what that faction is so I'm curious myself. So if there's a cop with a shot they don't have a good idea about, take it on me.

In other news, this claim seems way too specific to ever come from scum, and a cop check on herta.could be a good idea somewhere down the line to understand what kind of game we're playing.

It could literally come from scum who has that role, haha. Actually that does raise an interesting question - if somebody from the largest groupscum group in the game were to get the Universal Miller card, how would the two interact? Let me see if Meg will answer this question.

[Aisa]

*smallest groupscum group

[Aisa]

Marashu doesn't seem scum

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

starting to see a scummy mindset again

pedit: your reaction test doesn't faze me

What's the scummy mindset you're seeing?

V

oting Marashu purely to wagon with no good reason...

not even sheeping could explain that

yeah that's the question

but even if he wanted to talk about people what was that about 1 not posting yet?

it just doesn't make sense

that was the main reason I wasn't going to make a lead rist immediately

though it still is early D1 and lead rists are high effort for what is meant to be a non-serious setup

here is a lead rist for now

[Town]

Gimli - Town mindset, which can be discerned by towny posts appearing to be thoughtstreamed.
Herta - Way too gambity to be scum, despite the hasty claim.
Aisa - Good pushes.
KittyTacky - Seemingly townie.
Not_Mafia - Is Not_Mafia.
Enchant - Mostly RVS content, if not then setup spec.
narrow parking - An RVS vote and nothing else as of now.
Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu - No content as of now.
Yume - No content as of now except for a vote out of the blue.
Kyoko Kirigiri - Yeah idk.

Marashu - Seemingly not townie.

Kokichi Oma - Scummy mindset.

[Scum]

...Huh?

Why do the quotes look so much bigger than they did before the update? :'(

[Aisa]

Oh my bad, Marashu had the same question about TL's change of read before I did lol.

Actually that does raise an interesting question - if somebody from the

largest

smallest groupscum group in the game were to get the Universal Miller card, how would the two interact? Let me see if Meg will answer this question.

Meg said that a groupscum universal miller would be allowed. So e.g. if the smallest groupscum group in this game were the Apparitions, a Universal Miller Apparition would be allowed, and would investigate as an Apparition to relevant investigatives. (Meg is awesome.)

@Yume

, why are you voting Gimli?

[Aisa]

Just having a busy day. The list is pretty meh and I'm not sure what was his big fuss about "making a list" not making a list till that specific slot also posts stuff specially since in list its still "No content as of now"

whats "scummy mindset" with kokichi. can you elaborate on that read?

What's meh about the list to you?

[Aisa]

Spoiler: Re: discussion of Herta's role

I return vanilla [smallest groupscum faction at the beginning of the game]. It says nothing about conspirators or guardians or any other faction other than town of course. Walk me through this like I'm 5, please.

According to the setup we have 4 factions, so I don't know why you're speculating on how many there are.

I also don't know what you mean by slow to get information out of me. I'm not on a timetable. And even if I were, what difference does/did it make?

I got 3 factions and not 4 from the following:

1. The moderator rolls 1d4. This corresponds to one of the 4 faction lists below.
2. The moderator rolls a random number from 1 to the number of entries in the corresponding list to determine what is present in the game.
3. The moderator rolls an additional number on the True Groupscum list.

One faction from any of the lists. One faction from True Groupscum. Town. Those are the three factions.

As I said, I might be misunderstanding how flavour works. My understanding was that 'Miller', 'Cop', 'Mason', etc would be changed to match whichever faction it is reflecting/investigating/excluding. For example, in the Dark Creatures entry, Miller is listed as 'Abyssal'. So my expectation is that your card would read Universal Must-Pick Abyssal. So either I'm wrong about how the role flavourings work (which, I'll be honest, is definitely a possibility), or we're in a setup where you would return as a Guardian/Conspirator (since those are the only two groupscum that would have Miller as Miller), or you're antitown who wanted to claim miller early but didn't know about miller flavour, and it's this last possibility that has me so fixated on sorting your claim.

I think your understanding of most of the Miller roles is correct, but Herta's role just so happens to be an exception - the

official name

of the role is "Universal Miller", the role just

investigates

as e.g. Dark Creature to relevant Cops, and Vanilla to relevant Rolecops. If it helps, think of the Role as being named "Universally Suspicious Person" rather than "Universal Miller".

VOTE: kyoko

Game is kind of dead and I get that, but you're still talking about lich's list and I think the focus on that is scummy

It's the awkward period when RVS is over but there are still no leads. That's why is dead. Also I don't think there's much else to talk about, the list is pretty big as far as content goes so far.

Why not make some content yourself?

[Aisa]

Surely

this is a legitimate claim. I feel like Herta is reproducing the ?confusion? of having an odd role very well - seems like it would be hard to reproduce if it were a fake claim.

Herta, have you thought about asking the mod to clarify how your role works?

[Aisa]

Wait I'm dumb lol, I literally asked Meg yesterday? the day before? I believe my interpretation of how Universal Miller works is the correct one.

Why are you voting Fuyuhiko, Herta?

[Aisa]

Kiinda working on a Lich case, but I'll think about it after I'm done writing that

[Aisa]

Here is why I think we should wagon Lich:
- The change of read on Marashu (compare 1a-1b to 2)
--- Their explanation doesn't convince me. Just matches my model of how scum who gets caught on an inconsistency reacts.
- Their explanation for why they felt backed into overconfidence wasn't actually an explanation, they just sort of... restated when they felt backed into overconfidence.
- The lead rist just seems kinda strange in general. 1. why say that you need Fuyuhiko to post given several other slots also haven't posted much of note, and given you proceed to throw a nullbin on all these other slots anyway? 2.
- Kokichi's posts feel like they have ulterior motives? That's kind of vague. What are the ulterior motives?

Would love to hear any thoughts or see anyone jumping on the wagon

[Aisa]

I kinda wanna stick with Lich as there's more actually scummy stuff there. I'll give you, Herta, that Fuyuhiko could be posting more, and I don't think the post where they ask you why you didn't claim looks amazingly aware of the game. And lurking is always a bit scummy, imo. But, who knows.

Hi I’m incredibly lost, what’s going on?

You could try reading my case on TemporalLich above and tell me what you think

[Aisa]

But, who knows*.

*maybe they're just struggling to get into the game.

[Aisa]

I'm also feeling uneasy by kokichi but I'll try to re-read parts of the game and see if I can write some words about it. I thought it was peculiar that kokichi decided to position in my favour when herta scumread me for asking about the setup, but he didn't push herta for it or anything, so it seemed like just posturing which may or may not be uncharacteristic for kokichi.

I don't feel like what Herta has done was worse than what Lich has done so far overall and I'm not voting them yet either. I just want to point out observations objectively. W-Why are you being so mean to me?

What

is

your read on Herta?

[Aisa]

Catching up now, if anyone wants to talk

[Aisa]

I think the value of a massclaim would depend to a large extent on the tradeoff between {telling scum who to kill / roleblock / mess with} and {better night action coordination / information / locking scum into a lie}, it seems very very dependent on the exact setup we have. Seems like it ultimately comes down to player preference and my preference is to not do it, but this is a democracy. I guess that if we mess up worst case we could still attempt to Mountainous the setup.

On a semi-related note, I can't think of a super obvious reason for why Herta shouldn't full claim, I don't think not knowing the exact flavour of miller will cause scum to slip or anything like that.

Why did you think this, and also, why are you trying to act like my question is off when you said this?

I feel like the post you quoted is pretty self contained.

I made the statement about Herta full claiming because I noted they didn't full claim and felt confused by that, but I don't really see the fact the claim was not initially full as AI. I

feel like

your question was a bit off because it didn't demonstrate awareness of this conversation that Herta and I had. Why did you use the wording "act like"?

[Aisa]

Catching up now, if anyone wants to talk

What are your reads and what do you think of Enchant vs Kirigiri last few pages

My reads:
Some shade of a townread on you, Marashu, Herta, and Gimli.
Still suspicious of Lich.

Enchant vs Kirigiri:
- This is definitely not a game where everyone is guaranteed to roll VT!
- I don't really think saying you discarded a "vanilla townie" card rather than a "vanilla" card is AI. Or like, maybe it is, but I have no idea in what direction.
- I am *ahem* clearly not still salty about the last time I lost a game because of a similar reason, but people who soft need to be evaluated like everyone else, not just forgotten about because they softed something
- In fact there's plenty of other players who have been speaking of mechanics in slightly more or slightly less flawed ways - just off the top of my head, 1. Herta's claim, 2. Gimli seemingly being unaware of literally any detail in the setup, 3. you thinking everyone in the game will get a non-VT role. I sort of wonder why Enchant was drawn to comment on Kyoko specifically.

[Aisa]

Also yay, first post on my birthday!!

Happy birthday!

locktowning kokichi I think. suspicion over kyoko is good. suspicion over lich I still don't see it but it might just be things people scumread other people for that I don't, so.

I think sharing discards is an interesting idea. but does it make our actual roles more likely to reveal? like, the strength of them. making the game easier for scum at night, and whatnot. and does it help our wincon as townies to share such a thing? I think I'm against it.

Can you tell me why Lich is townie to you at all?

i mean its a little over the top to be scum at some points, scumreads merging together, wants to do a reads list as soon as everyone posts etc. I don't see a person playing like them and think they're scum, but clearly it's pinging everyone else so maybe I'm wrong. it's not that I'm necessarily going like 'oh this is a nice towny post', it's more a sensation that it's a townslot.

Any chance you can be a little more specific?
My personal experience has just been that often the seemingly-scummy slots are actually scummy >.<

[Aisa]

- In fact there's plenty of other players who have been speaking of mechanics in slightly more or slightly less flawed ways - just off the top of my head, 1. Herta's claim, 2. Gimli seemingly being unaware of literally any detail in the setup, 3. you thinking everyone in the game will get a non-VT role. I sort of wonder why Enchant was drawn to comment on Kyoko specifically.

I wonder if the mighty Wizard-Mercenary will confirm this for us if I use enough cringey emojis to summon him

[Aisa]

Summary of claims so far:

Herta
Pick: Universal Miller (Must Pick)

TemporalLich
Pick: Meta-Neighbour
Discard: Extension

Doctor Drew
Pick: Meta-Neighbour

Kyoko Kirigiri
Discard: Vanilla

Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu
Discard: Vanilla

Enchant
Discard: Untopped Post Restrictor

[Aisa]

Also yay, first post on my birthday!!

Happy birthday!

locktowning kokichi I think. suspicion over kyoko is good. suspicion over lich I still don't see it but it might just be things people scumread other people for that I don't, so.

I think sharing discards is an interesting idea. but does it make our actual roles more likely to reveal? like, the strength of them. making the game easier for scum at night, and whatnot. and does it help our wincon as townies to share such a thing? I think I'm against it.

Can you tell me why Lich is townie to you at all?

i mean its a little over the top to be scum at some points, scumreads merging together, wants to do a reads list as soon as everyone posts etc. I don't see a person playing like them and think they're scum, but clearly it's pinging everyone else so maybe I'm wrong. it's not that I'm necessarily going like 'oh this is a nice towny post', it's more a sensation that it's a townslot.

Any chance you can be a little more specific?
My personal experience has just been that often the seemingly-scummy slots are actually scummy >.<

I'll try. Sometimes I townread things I don't fully understand.

For instance, lich's response to the miller claim is calling it scum, scum tactics and scum mindset. Do I get it? No I don't get it. But why would scum be faking this level of paranoia?

Why not? Scum have to fake some paranoia somewhere.

Then there's... His whole ISO kind of looks like that. So many scumreads, and I think I disagree with most if not all of them? Or at least the reasoning. But I have a feeling of that presence that's trying to understand the game and it just feels town. The excessive self awareness in some posts is also too unbelievable. Scum wouldn't be this upfront with looking scummy?

Hmmm
just re-ISOed TL and I don't see anything scum couldn't fake. Do I remember someone else bringing up that TL's reasoning for scumreading Kokichi is consistent?

OK. Let's analyse:

Spoiler:

@Temporal, mind expanding a bit on your KittyTacky read? Also on how your read on me changed from 78 to 133?

KittyTacky's questions feel towny to me.

When I was reading your ISO for when I was compiling the lead rist, it didn't feel towny despite my initial read. That being said, your push is towny to the point "seemingly not townie" doesn't make sense as a read.

Just having a busy day. The list is pretty meh and I'm not sure what was his big fuss about "making a list" not making a list till that specific slot also posts stuff specially since in list its still "No content as of now"

whats "scummy mindset" with kokichi. can you elaborate on that read?

Yeah... It was past early D1 despite not everyone having content but I was needing to do a lead rist so I can make sure my vote makes sense.

Anyway, Kokichi Oma's pushes feel like they have ulterior motives behind them.

Also Kokichi clearly wants a mislim or at least to cause confrusion

@Lich analyze the wagon on you, please. What do you think of each vote?

Marashu's vote on me is an RVS vote, so that's a purely NAI vote
Aisa's vote on me is towny (I believe the vote was in RVS, but Aisa put out a case on me which has a towny mindset even though the case itself is meh)
Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu's vote on me is somewhat reactive but also comes with an associative, so I will say the vote itself is NAI (the pushes are scummy though)
Kokichi Oma's vote on me is scummy and the post afterward basically means they were rolefishing the universal miller claim

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

Best elim as of now due to having many associatives... Kokichi and Kyoko are very likely co-aligned

actually idk

my scumreads might be merging together

actually idk

my scumreads might be merging together

what does that mean, merging together? as in they're aligning themselves ITT from your POV?

no, kokichi and kyoko were seemingly the same player and I was scumreading kokichi

then again kokichi and kyoko are very likely co-aligned and it would be difficult to convince me that a kokichi wagon is not the way to end Day 1 as a kokichi elimination will provide a lot of info

considering that kokichi and kyoko have very strong associatives... my vote is on kokichi because kokichi is an outright openwolf (and not in a jestery way)

I see, like, 2 ideas repeated:
1. Kokichi is scum, plus generic accusations like he "clearly wants to cause a mislim" and "is a powerwolf"
2. Kokichi and Kyoko are aligned
It's not that much work to keep track of these two ideas and keep repeating them, so I think I disagree with the conclusion that TL's posting so far is sufficient to prove he has a consistent thought process.

[Aisa]

Summary of claims so far:

Herta
Pick: Universal Miller (Must Pick)

TemporalLich
Pick: Meta-Neighbour
Discard: Extension

Doctor Drew
Pick: Meta-Neighbour

Kyoko Kirigiri
Discard: Vanilla

Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu
Discard: Vanilla

Enchant
Discard: Untopped Post Restrictor

To my understanding Doctor Drew didn't pick Meta-Neighbour; by TL picking it, Doctor Drew's slot was brought into the neighbourhood.

Ooh right, that could very well be the case!

I'm debating whether I should force the claim issue or wait a day to prove myself. I will say I have a role that is difficult for scum to interfere with and works best when coordinated with town. I have a back-up plan if we decide to not coordinate.

I guess that if you think it's best to massclaim I'm willing to go with it!

the consistency was brought up by kyoko (who is also scumreading TL)

I'm feeling like herta in that I don't townread TL enough to stop a flip and I'll gladly eliminate him cause it feels like it'll be a constant distraction if town cause I don't think his posts will sway anyone that is currently SRing him

I wanna toss my name in the hat as someone who wouldn't mind some time to look at other slots, sorry, I realise I've been contributing to the problem of lots of attention on TL so far. I'll talk to someone else.
...Tomorrow. After I sleep

[Aisa]

~

Fancy prodge with promise of more content tomorrow

~

Rain seems slightly more useful than snow, I'm not sure about rain vs hail, maybe slight lean hail.

I got distracted. Honestly yeah, TL's page 10 posts are scummy imo.

VOTE: TemporalLich

Tell me a bit more about why they're scummy? Do you have any other reads? How likely do you think TL is to flip scum?

[Aisa]

There was something I didn't like about Kitty's early posting, but changed my tuned as I kept skimming, will revisit that as I read the thread again.

Did you ever reach a conclusion on this?

[Aisa]

There was something I didn't like about Kitty's early posting, but changed my tuned as I kept skimming, will revisit that as I read the thread again.

Did you ever reach a conclusion on this?

I did not actually, got a bit caught up on the TL situation, kind of forgot about them.

What did you originally not like?

[Aisa]

Yeah this is a hard game currently, I kinda waver between eliminating someone who is not posting and someone who is posting. I usually don't like eliminating for high information but I also worry that if we do e.g. KittyTacky, then tomorrow will be a repeat of today.

Though we earn an extra yeet if the game is nightless for a couple nights. That seems pretty good, much more robustly useful than either Rain or Snow I think.

P-edit: nice

[Aisa]

I do have some faith that the lower volume posters will give us some more AI content in time, and they may not be an *easy* read but I think that we may be able to take a reasonable guess eventually.

Doesn't really help resolve today though hmmm

[Aisa]

I think the value of a massclaim would depend to a large extent on the tradeoff between {telling scum who to kill / roleblock / mess with} and {better night action coordination / information / locking scum into a lie}, it seems very very dependent on the exact setup we have. Seems like it ultimately comes down to player preference and my preference is to not do it, but this is a democracy. I guess that if we mess up worst case we could still attempt to Mountainous the setup.

On a semi-related note, I can't think of a super obvious reason for why Herta shouldn't full claim, I don't think not knowing the exact flavour of miller will cause scum to slip or anything like that.

Why did you think this, and also, why are you trying to act like my question is off when you said this?

I feel like the post you quoted is pretty self contained.

I made the statement about Herta full claiming because I noted they didn't full claim and felt confused by that, but I don't really see the fact the claim was not initially full as AI. I

feel like

your question was a bit off because it didn't demonstrate awareness of this conversation that Herta and I had. Why did you use the wording "act like"?

I said “act like” because I saw what seemed like you trying to shade me for what you already were doing
As for not showing awareness of the conversation, yea I wasn’t aware of this post at the time I asked about Herta’s claim situation. I catch up stream-of-consciousness style I would say.
You at least seem to have a good head about the matter

Re: Fuyuhiko, FWIW I thought this seemed like a skillful response to my question. Super envy the at-least outward complete cool if they're scum.

[Aisa]

I still just want the Litchi Lichen out today really, still think some of their posting makes no sense, is pretty easy and I actually scumread.

As opposed to Yume or KT where I'm like *shrug* could be scum I guess

@TemporalLich the neighbourhood seems pretty important to you. Any progress there yet?

[Aisa]

Oh right, and: too scummy to be scum doesn't really do much for me. Thanks for explaining though Gimli.

[Aisa]

They could be aligned? I don’t think it was *that* coordinated though.

Maybe not aligned but in a hood together, but yes, I think this is a possibility too. Though I'm not sure why they move *so much* in lockstep, I guess that probably actually doesn't prove much except that they were online at a similar time. Even if you're both planning a reaction test you don't exactly need to coordinate it down to the minute.

But yeah overall I think that "??wtf is this obvious bait??" is the right way to think about it.

[Aisa]

Aisa, did you ever get a chance to look at anyone else? Where are you at right now?

Assuming you're talking about that comment I made last gameday. I did look at a few other posters, but settled back onto TL because I townleaned a lot of the active posters. I still think the main thing is getting a read on some of the more lurky slots. I wouldn't quite call Fuyuhiko and Kyoko lurky but I also haven't thought a lot about them. I think there can quite easily be a lot of scum in {KT, NM, Kyoko, Fuyuhiko, Drew}, the thing is figuring out if that's the right read of the gamestate.

Yume should have claimed when people called for them to be vigged.

Especially as an invest. Sigh.

This seems a bit... revisionistic? LAMISTy? I'd like to know what Kitty thinks they-re accomplishing with this.

Spoiler: @mod

i cannot count

Omg I did that once too, I made like 8 posts thinking I was going to grab a pagetop then noticed XX45 was not a multiple of 25 lol

[Aisa]

any ways eno ugh soft clai ming

I can full claim end of day. Thin king ab out it

Hang the fuck on
Why are you acting like this? I wouldn’t have been able to target you, and you wouldn’t even know if I had!

Is she talking about your action with that post though? I feel like she may be softing some other kind of role

[Aisa]

I have a guilty on Doctor Drew

Of what kind, dear Miltank? Are you and Enchant in a hood?

[Aisa]

Aisa, did you ever get a chance to look at anyone else? Where are you at right now?

I suppose I am a bit more weary of the Miller claim right now from Herta. N_M is well.. N_M so I'm not sure what to think about that slot. I was kinda hoping that would have been the vig shot.

Lol, do you see a bunny when you look in the mirror in the morning?

Can you tell us a bit more about what you were thinking when you hammered TL? Why were you hoping NM would be the vig shot?

[Aisa]

...Why you're wary or weary of the Miller claim too, actually, sorry

[Aisa]

[...]

Aisa, did you ever get a chance to look at anyone else? Where are you at right now?

Assuming you're talking about that comment I made last gameday. I did look at a few other posters, but settled back onto TL because I townleaned a lot of the active posters. I still think the main thing is getting a read on some of the more lurky slots. I wouldn't quite call Fuyuhiko and Kyoko lurky but I also haven't thought a lot about them. I think there can quite easily be a lot of scum in {KT, NM, Kyoko, Fuyuhiko, Drew}, the thing is figuring out if that's the right read of the gamestate.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about. What do you make of Enchant right now? [...]

I probably shouldn't be sheeped on this, but I think he's a little towny overall. He seems interested in the game, is commenting on the kind of things I would expect him to comment on, I can generally see where he's coming from (e.g. in this post).

any ways eno ugh soft clai ming

I can full claim end of day. Thin king ab out it

Hang the fuck on
Why are you acting like this? I wouldn’t have been able to target you, and you wouldn’t even know if I had!

Is she talking about your action with that post though? I feel like she may be softing some other kind of role

she's clearly fragmenting her posts in a way to play around my role
I legitimately submitted no action last night. So for her to be acting like I targeted her is shady as fuck to me.
Also, clearly claiming my role early on was a fucking mistake.

Hmm, what would she get by doing that though? Seems like a silly thing to pretend, there's no way she doesn't get found out - if she thought that the person you targeted would get notified, then she would be expecting to get CC'd. I don't think that's her intention.

I think that regardless of her alignment she's having a play around with the fact that she is aware of your role. I don't think there are many universes in which she's actually like "ha ha let me pretend Fuyuhiko targeted me", that doesn't really go successfully in any case.

[Aisa]

Spoiler:

any ways eno ugh soft clai ming

I can full claim end of day. Thin king ab out it

Hang the fuck on
Why are you acting like this? I wouldn’t have been able to target you, and you wouldn’t even know if I had!

Is she talking about your action with that post though? I feel like she may be softing some other kind of role

she's clearly fragmenting her posts in a way to play around my role
I legitimately submitted no action last night. So for her to be acting like I targeted her is shady as fuck to me.
Also, clearly claiming my role early on was a fucking mistake.

I actually believe you have this role now so my small test worked

I also love how you're furious. It looks genuine

Now tell me what you think of how others reacted to your sudden push on me?

@Kyoko, sounds like you know Fuyuhiko. What do you think is town-indicative about Fuyu's posting?
Can you also tell me what kind of reactions you were envisioning with your test?

Meanwhile,
VOTE: Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu

[Aisa]

I think there can quite easily be a lot of scum in {KT, NM, Kyoko, Fuyuhiko, Drew}, the thing is figuring out if that's the right read of the gamestate.

Why these 5?

It's more that I at least townlean everyone else! Feel free to ask about a couple specific players if you want more details.

Can you tell us a bit more about what you were thinking when you hammered TL? Why were you hoping NM would be the vig shot?

That I'm glad TL was getting elim'd cause I assumed scum. And cause N_M is usually the designated vig target since he's pretty much barely posting as either alignment, so rather a shot there to potentially get scum.

What do you think of Yume as a vig shot?
Thanks for the answers so far, sorry for the ongoing interrogation

[Aisa]

BUT YOU'RE A 3P THO

Sounds like you're >rand 3P yourself

@Kyoko, sounds like you know Fuyuhiko. What do you think is town-indicative about Fuyu's posting?
Can you also tell me what kind of reactions you were envisioning with your test?

Meanwhile,
VOTE: Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu

Why this vote when you asked for answer right before voting?

I wanted to both get my answer and apply pressure and couldn't be bothered to wait for my answer before applying pressure

It's more that I at least townlean everyone else! Feel free to ask about a couple specific players if you want more details.

Well drew has 3 votes on him right now and is in that group of 5. Why not vote him instead? Or do you not scumread him as much? What's your reasoning?

Drew has felt like a mixed bag, there was some stuff in his ISO that I thought looked towny. Nothing impossible to fake I guess, but I like the reaction to the fake guilty, felt like the right amount of indignation, plausibly town.
It also just didn't register that Drew had three votes on him, nor would that have made me more likely to vote there

[Aisa]

What do you think of Yume as a vig shot?
Thanks for the answers so far, sorry for the ongoing interrogation

Yume wasn't doing anything so I think the vig shot was fine. Explained that earlier

That's not how it works, ok?
You're supposed to give some indication of if you realised that it was discussed at the end of yesterday who KT would shoot T_T

Spoiler:

any ways eno ugh soft clai ming

I can full claim end of day. Thin king ab out it

Hang the fuck on
Why are you acting like this? I wouldn’t have been able to target you, and you wouldn’t even know if I had!

Is she talking about your action with that post though? I feel like she may be softing some other kind of role

she's clearly fragmenting her posts in a way to play around my role
I legitimately submitted no action last night. So for her to be acting like I targeted her is shady as fuck to me.
Also, clearly claiming my role early on was a fucking mistake.

I actually believe you have this role now so my small test worked

I also love how you're furious. It looks genuine

Now tell me what you think of how others reacted to your sudden push on me?

@Kyoko, sounds like you know Fuyuhiko. What do you think is town-indicative about Fuyu's posting?
Can you also tell me what kind of reactions you were envisioning with your test?

Meanwhile,
VOTE: Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu

I don’t particularly like how you’re handling this. What is suspicious to you about me trying to cut off what came across as an obvious shade campaign at the time?

I don't think it was a really obvious shade campaign. You've said that it was shady to you that Kyoko acted like she was targeted by you. I'm saying: I don't think she was trying to imply that you targeted her specifically, I think she was going for more of a "ha I am aware that this role is in the game" vibe.

[Aisa]

Hmm, what would she get by doing that though? Seems like a silly thing to pretend, there's no way she doesn't get found out - if she thought that the person you targeted would get notified, then she would be expecting to get CC'd. I don't think that's her intention.

I think that regardless of her alignment she's having a play around with the fact that she is aware of your role. I don't think there are many universes in which she's actually like "ha ha let me pretend Fuyuhiko targeted me", that doesn't really go successfully in any case.

Spoiler:

any ways eno ugh soft clai ming

I can full claim end of day. Thin king ab out it

Hang the fuck on
Why are you acting like this? I wouldn’t have been able to target you, and you wouldn’t even know if I had!

Is she talking about your action with that post though? I feel like she may be softing some other kind of role

she's clearly fragmenting her posts in a way to play around my role
I legitimately submitted no action last night. So for her to be acting like I targeted her is shady as fuck to me.
Also, clearly claiming my role early on was a fucking mistake.

I actually believe you have this role now so my small test worked

I also love how you're furious. It looks genuine

Now tell me what you think of how others reacted to your sudden push on me?

@Kyoko, sounds like you know Fuyuhiko. What do you think is town-indicative about Fuyu's posting?
Can you also tell me what kind of reactions you were envisioning with your test?

Meanwhile,
VOTE: Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu

ok this is weird

how you got from those arguments and questions to vote fuyuhiko?

what gave the impression that I "know fuyuhiko". Also wy you asking about what is "town indicative" in his posting? burden of proof is if you wanna work on a scumread, to find for reasons to scum read someone.

this just doesn't make sense.

As for your question, I am pretty much null on the slot. I think them claiming their true role outright was town + and I'm happy with how they reacted so far about me playing with that claim.

I've touched on this slightly, but I voted Fuyuhiko partly to vote someone. This seemed like quite a cautious playerlist in that everyone was talking a lot and asking questions, but not voting much. If you ignore NM and Enchant. Idk, it made sense in my head at the time, so I thought I would try to contribute to making something happen.

But I do also think Fuyuhiko deserves more attention. I've played with people for whom getting "furious" and OMGUSing is a scumtell. You both have danganronpa characters for usernames and you said that you were going to play with friends in the queue and you sound familiar with him when you say things like "I like this reaction from you" (not a direct quote).

Are you telling me to find reasons to vote Fuyuhiko rather than ask you to give me reasons? Sure, if you're town, I get where that comes from. But there is also such a thing as asking someone for a second opinion on a slot. and I'll work on a case when I am confident enough on something that I think it's worth pushing.

The point about them claiming their true role is a good point, I'll give you

[Aisa]

Hmmm - actually, I see mixed content ISOing Fuyuhiko. I think the interactions with TL early on look consistent. The push on me and the general reaction to Kyoko thoughhhh

Millers ave to claim right away. its the way it works

My question (maybe just out of curiosity) is why would anyone choose to be miller

like whats, the other option that they actually discarded that was worse. That's why I actually have some considerations about believing the miller claim

this is probably the smartest approach anyone's had to the miller claim
and I am acknowledging that there are reason to pick it that were stated

VOTE: kyoko

Game is kind of dead and I get that, but you're still talking about lich's list and I think the focus on that is scummy

this feels disingenuous
I think Kyoko makes good points, and aside from that consistent pressure in this scenario I think is actually town-indicating.

These examples of two posts I like. I particularly like the idea that consistent pressure is town indicating. I probably agree?

I don't like having the fate of the game in my hands so I'd rather sheep people I think are town.

This feels weak
Why don’t you have faith in your reads?

Hmm
Do you think this is scum indicative, Fuyuhiko?

Hmm, what would she get by doing that though? Seems like a silly thing to pretend, there's no way she doesn't get found out - if she thought that the person you targeted would get notified, then she would be expecting to get CC'd. I don't think that's her intention.

I think that regardless of her alignment she's having a play around with the fact that she is aware of your role. I don't think there are many universes in which she's actually like "ha ha let me pretend Fuyuhiko targeted me", that doesn't really go successfully in any case.

Now that I’ve spelled out my logic, do you still think my reaction makes no sense?

I didn't see this earlier. Your posting is consistent, which is a slightly good sign I think, though the concern was always more that you were trying to attribute motivations to Kyoko that weren't there or trying to come across like you were misinterpreting them.

I need sleep, so I'll think more about this tomorrow

[Aisa]

Sorry for disappearing; it's been a long 48 hours. I'd like to see if there's anything I can do to change your minds here. I think that to people who know my playstyle I should be findable as town. Though there's a few people I've never played with in this game, hopefully some of it carries over. Something that's helped me in the past is just talking directly to the people who were voting me; I'll gladly discuss anything you want with you.

[Aisa]

I don't think it was a really obvious shade campaign. You've said that it was shady to you that Kyoko acted like she was targeted by you. I'm saying: I don't think she was trying to imply that you targeted her specifically, I think she was going for more of a "ha I am aware that this role is in the game" vibe.

what do you have to suggest

it wasn't specific to me

like you thought Kyoko knew me earlier right? That doesn't mesh with this assertion imo.

That's not what I'm saying. I agree she was clearly referencing your role. Maybe she was even clearly referencing your role. Here is all the background to this discussion:

Spoiler:

[...]

any ways eno ugh soft clai ming

I can full claim end of day. Thin king ab out it

Hang the fuck on
Why are you acting like this? I wouldn’t have been able to target you, and you wouldn’t even know if I had!

Is she talking about your action with that post though? I feel like she may be softing some other kind of role

she's clearly fragmenting her posts in a way to play around my role
I legitimately submitted no action last night. So for her to be acting like I targeted her is shady as fuck to me.
Also, clearly claiming my role early on was a fucking mistake.

Hmm, what would she get by doing that though? Seems like a silly thing to pretend, there's no way she doesn't get found out - if she thought that the person you targeted would get notified, then she would be expecting to get CC'd. I don't think that's her intention.

I think that regardless of her alignment she's having a play around with the fact that she is aware of your role. I don't think there are many universes in which she's actually like "ha ha let me pretend Fuyuhiko targeted me", that doesn't really go successfully in any case.

You said: "Hang on, Kyoko, why are you acting like I targeted you?"
I said: "Doesn't sound to me like she's implying that you targeted her. I think she's just acting like she thinks you might have targeted

someone

."
You said: "She is structuring her posts to play around my role. She is acting like I targeted her."

I agree that she was playing around your role. I disagree that she was

acting like you targeted her with your night action

.

Spoiler:

[...]

Hmm, what would she get by doing that though? Seems like a silly thing to pretend, there's no way she doesn't get found out - if she thought that the person you targeted would get notified, then she would be expecting to get CC'd. I don't think that's her intention.

I think that regardless of her alignment she's having a play around with the fact that she is aware of your role. I don't think there are many universes in which she's actually like "ha ha let me pretend Fuyuhiko targeted me", that doesn't really go successfully in any case.

Now that I’ve spelled out my logic, do you still think my reaction makes no sense?

I didn't see this earlier. Your posting is consistent, which is a slightly good sign I think, though the concern was always more that you were trying to attribute motivations to Kyoko that weren't there or trying to come across like you were misinterpreting them.

I need sleep, so I'll think more about this tomorrow

I said: "I don't think she gets anything out of pretending you targeted her."
You said: "Do you still think my reaction makes no sense?"

And, like, yes? I'm saying: why do you think she implied you targeted her with your night action when none of her posts give me that impression?

[Aisa]

- I don't like the Herta wagon, think they're pretty Towny. The sparknotes version is that they don't really seem like they have an agenda to me, like I don't think they're actually trying to push through any elimination and sometimes seem content to just chill in thread, and I think this is town-indicative for them.
- Also doubtful on Doctor Drew. I'm less sure of this because I've never played with them before*. It's kind of a gut read, but they seem to be coming from a place of genuinely trying to scumhunt.
- I also support Hail. I don't think Rain or Snow would be much use. If we all claim and use Snow, scum could probably kill in the pool of people who were supposed to be targeted. If we use Rain, one member of the scumteam can just a role that can visit, then go and do the kill.
- Vigging NM sounds good; I would also be fine with giving Kitty a pool of people to shoot.

Things I'm planning to do tomorrow after some sleep include: responding to Marashu, towncasing Doctor Drew and Herta by quoting the posts instead of being vague.

Is anyone else interested in Fuyuhiko? That's the slot I most want right now. Could people explain why they actually townread that slot?

Maybe throw in Kokichi into the scum bucket for just voting me by quoting Marashu's post instead of giving any original justification.

*this is a lie, we actually were briefly together in a game in 2019 (sorry to not have brought it up earlier, Doctor, lol), I'm just assuming it's no longer relevant.

[Aisa]

Counter wagon good.

What does this mean? Which one is the wagon? Which one is the counter wagon? Why is it good?

Using hail again seems to me not a good play. This game lacks information, and part of that is because no one was able to do anything last night. So we're going to end up with two dead townies probably and no more information than we have today except for that. And unless those two players have a lot of associations, we're going essentially on the same information tomorrow as we have today. And that puts us that much closer to elo, if not in elo, and that's that.

Does that make any sense?

As for an alternative, I don't have one. I was just thinking about hail today.

Thing is I don't know if Rain or Snow are much better. You don't know that we're going to end up with two dead townies (unless you do), and if you think the current candidates are bad, please do suggest alternatives

[Aisa]

VOTE: kyoko kirigiri

How do you feel about this instead?

Kyoko, unless you demonstrate at the earliest opportunity that you are not a threat, I will vote you

I don't think tomorrow should be ELO normally. I assume two groupscums of 3 each are about the limit of what "balance" will permit? So if we eliminate once and Kitty shoots one, that puts us in 3-3-3 tomorrow.
...yeah ok right, the situation could be dire, but I wonder if it's still worth weighing against just leaving Kyoko alive and letting her confirm herself

[Aisa]

Oh, good point, we shouldn't hammer anyone until Marashu confirms he has used his ability.

[Aisa]

Not Mafia's claim is weird. I entertained it for a moment at the start of the day, but yeah, can anything actually get past Hail?

Also, Not Mafia sweetheart, you realise that if scum are so inclined, you are not any less likely to get smoked because you claimed a "gunsmith equivalent" than if you full claimed your role?

[Aisa]

True tbf

[Aisa]

Sorry, I don't mean any insult by that, just, you know. Everyone knows you're a calculating and heartless miltank.

[Aisa]

I don't think N_M and Drew are both scum together.

I think there's a good chance of scum being in {Aisa,Drew}. Slightly leaning more towards Aisa for a couple reasons. I wasn't a fan of where Aisa landed for the scum POE (it seemed kind of low-reaching), and the post Aisa use for reference to townread Enchant seems a bit weak? (840 referencing 809). But I'm also concerned that I don't see as much suspicion as I would expect from this slot. For example:

It's more that I at least townlean everyone else!

I've touched on this slightly, but I voted Fuyuhiko partly to vote someone.

I know Aisa said this playerlist seems to be cautious with votes, and I can see that, but I am seeing more scrutiny from a lot of other slots. Even looking at Aisa's case on Fuyuhiko, I see a lot of hesitance. I can't tell if this is just because Aisa is checked out or not, but there seems to be something tonally off for this slot? But I haven't played with Aisa before.

Even though I'm townleaning Gimli currently, I think an {Aisa, Gimli} scumpair is possible. Hm. As I'm going through the playlist, there are a few players I could see as partners with scum!Aisa (namely Gimli, Herta, Enchant, Kokichi). I'm having a harder time seeing that with Doctor Drew (which, I guess if you are scum, good job?)

VOTE: Aisa

I don't know why I promised I would respond to this last night, I know people are usually not very amenable to self meta but I suppose I'll try >.<
I think a lot of this is fair, but I'd like to ask you to consider if you're conflating being hesitant, which is something that I am a lot and that I have difficulty getting rid of even when I try, with not wanting to solve the game.

I think lurkier slots are more likely to be scum. Sadly, because I'd like to believe that the outcome of a mafia game is not just determined by who puts more time into it, but that's a digression.

P-edit: holy cow, gimli

[Aisa]

Here are some posts that make me want to townread Doctor Drew.

Spoiler:

I can confirm TL's claim.

What's your read on Lich in and out of the neighborhood? Are you the only two or are there more people?

Just TL and I in the neighborhood. They also said that I (or specifically narrow parking) was a random choice.

There hasn't been much action in the hood, just TL explaining to my former self what a hood is lol. Really no real alignment read from that. I almost feel like they are too scared too give too much away, but their in thread activity has matched their hood activity, so might be nothing big about that.

In thread, seems weird that they are the only real wagon and besides TL's push on Kyo, there been a real push for a counter wagon. I keep going back to TL's sudden read change on Mara, which to me seemed the most scummy thing to happen to that point.

I feel like I am overthinking my way out of a TL voted, but I would prefer to let things play out a bit more.

"I feel like I am overthinking my way out of a TL vote" this doesn't seem like a scum thought process

Spoiler:

Agreed that Gimli and KT are almost guaranteed to not be same alignment.

Hey, maybe first instincts were correct.

VOTE: KT

End of D1 when under fire is quite the time for TL to come alive and making some sense at least

I like this, because I also thought TL seemed a bit townier towards the end of the day.

Spoiler:

I have a guilty on Doctor Drew

I also have guilty on Doctor Drew

Wut?

There is more than one reason this is untrue, I will let you guess what they are.

(Spoiler, one of which is I am town).

I personally like this reaction. I know Marashu didn't, saying

Right now I'm looking at Doctor Drew. Didn't like his reaction to the obviously very real and not at all troll guilties at day start.

,
but I think the reaction is good. I think it's normal to have a "what??" reaction if you walk into thread as on day 2 and see that two slots claim to have a guilty on you?
I think it would have been much worse if he hadn't categorically denied the guilties and tried to play them off or find some kind of excuse for them.

The posts above are examples. The point is that I find Drew's vibe towny, it's like they're not really actively trying to push anything through.

I need a break, but I'll be back later.

[Aisa]

I just found this alignment which seems possibly relevant!!

Third Party Introduction:

Duplicator

Abilities: Factional "Duplicate" action. Target a player during the day, learn the target's role card.
At night, you have a factional ability to use the role that you found during that day. This action is multitasking. If you found a role with no activated night ability, you become 1 shot Bulletproof that night.
Once per game may choose to self target with their factional day ability. Once per game may choose to use their day ability twice in one day.

Goal: Eliminate all opposing factions, or prevent them from killing you. You win alone.

[Aisa]

It acts during the Day, so would explain how NM got past Hail. It could be that NM found a scummy looking card and decided to claim the guilty. That's maybe slightly less solid than a gunsmith, but in the same ballpark?

It could also absolutely be that NM is just trolling as usual, there's something like a 1/40 chance of this alignment being in the game, so

[Aisa]

Kyoko is clearly being disingenuous. Sorry Kyoko. You keep saying that you can confirm that you can win with both town and scum and, as such, are no threat to anyone. You're conflating being able to win with town

under certain circumstances

with

never

being a threat to the town. It's called a third party for a reason; if your wincon aligned with town perfectly you'd be a happy fluffy town unicorn or something.

[Aisa]

I don't really know, Fuyuhiko. You seemingly kept pushing me without ever directly addressing my point as I recall and now you seem to think Gimli is scum, but I've seen scum!Gimli, and he made a lot less sense. He never explained anything. Here he looks like he's trying to rally the town around common causes. Like Kyoko 3p and voting for you.

But then you go and do things like calling out Kyoko for whatever she's doing in the exact same way that I think about the problem, so, rn I have no clue what is going on.

UNVOTE:

[Aisa]

As for Kyoko, whether she needs to be voted out imo depends heavily on which 3p she is, and I haven't decided which one fits her behaviour best yet.

[Aisa]

Maybe throw in Kokichi into the scum bucket for just voting me

Wow, you're also very good at this game. I must be scum for voting you.

Wow, nice selective quoting me

Maybe throw in Kokichi into the scum bucket for just voting me by quoting Marashu's post instead of giving any original justification.

I don't really know, Fuyuhiko. You seemingly kept pushing me without ever directly addressing my point as I recall and now you seem to think Gimli is scum, but I've seen scum!Gimli, and he made a lot less sense. He never explained anything. Here he looks like he's trying to rally the town around common causes. Like Kyoko 3p and voting for you.

But then you go and do things like calling out Kyoko for whatever she's doing in the exact same way that I think about the problem, so, rn I have no clue what is going on.

UNVOTE:

when have you seen me scum btw?

Explorers of the Hidden Temple

I wanna go watch MasterChef right now. Before I go, I leave you with this riddle: what if Gimli is the other Pirate

[Aisa]

Hi, I am busy right now and haven't read some of the newest posts, but just popping in to reassure that I will definitely be around and able to weigh in in a few hours, before the deadline

[Aisa]

Right ok, I just did an unofficial VC and I think Drew is hammered
votes are guaranteed to be out of order

Doctor Drew (6) - Enchant, Herta, Kokichi, KittyTacky, Marashu, Not_Mafia
Herta (2) - Doctor Drew, Gimli

Not voting (3) - Kyoko, Aisa, Fuyuhiko

What can I say? Judging by the latest posting, Drew better frigging flip town

[Aisa]

I'm not sure what has and hasn't been brought up cause I haven't read all the last ten pages, I'll do that next and reply to what there is to reply to. But consider that my role is security guard. I target a player and they can see everyone else who visited them that night. May be useful to check the pirates are actually targeting whoever they say they are targeting.

[Aisa]

So my plan revolves around Gimli’s PoE from a bit ago, which I think is solid enough. To recap, that PoE was {Herta, Drew, Aisa, Kitty}. Kitty obviously needs to stay around through tonight. Drew is the most optimal vote-out as he has ties to Herta and Aisa. If Drew flips town, by the common consensus of Herts and Drew having one scum, Herta is the best shot. If Drew flips scum, Herta is probably town and should be shot but since Aisa’s scum equity is in the universe where Drew is scum, she’s a good shot if Drew flips scum. Past tonight, any additional flips are at “we’ll see”.

This?

I am trying to figure out what I can say that is useful to say in this situation, unfortunately being useful kinda requires having read the last 10 pages of posting

[Aisa]

I'm not sure what has and hasn't been brought up cause I haven't read all the last ten pages, I'll do that next and reply to what there is to reply to. But consider that my role is security guard. I target a player and they can see everyone else who visited them that night. May be useful to check the pirates are actually targeting whoever they say they are targeting.

So you're saying you shouldn't be shot because you can keep the pirates honest?

I don't really like to advocate that I should or shouldn't be shot, that seems really self serving. I think I have a useful role, and now that the information is on the table, people can consider it if they want to. And of course I'd like to convince you all to think about shooting someone else in the time I have left, but I guess that accepting responsibility for one of my reads seems like a fair way to go if I have to go

[Aisa]

People's roles so far:
Gimli: Potato Propagandist, aligned with the Potato Tyranny
Aisa:

Safeguarder

of the universe against the Potato Tyranny
Herta: Yam

This is my crumb, ta-da

[Aisa]

Right now if I had to guess, I'd say Drew's partner was Aisa.

I also just noticed that Aisa was the first one to push the 'N_M might have been meta janitor' narrative at gamestart.

I can't believe Herta was actually just a Miller. And I agree Aisa is probably just last partner. Do Pirates just lose then?

it's just aisa isn't it, I don't even see a third arson in this game

Spoiler: Hi

[Aisa]

Anyway, I'm really sorry that we've had a misvig. I felt like it was either me or someone whose alignment wasn't confirmed to me. Good job those of you who had Drew down (...everyone except me?). I do wish I had been around a bit more yesterday and got the chance to really sort Drew properly given that clearly I didn't do an amazing job, and to make people feel better about me. I'll try more today.

I agree with Kyoko here tbh.

I'm sorry, what is there to agree with exactly? I feel like the word "agree" only makes sense if you're talking to someone of your own alignment. Kyoko is a pirate and will naturally advocate for whatever is best for her, which may sometimes incidentally happen to align town interests sometimes.

[Aisa]

if pirates care for the mechanical win let's go on with finishing the massclaims already

aisa just outed herself so let's get this done with

Hey! That's not what I'm saying :c

[Aisa]

Summary of mechanical information so far:

Claims:

TemporalLich
Pick: Meta-Neighbour
Discard: Extension

Kyoko Kirigiri
Pick: Modified Friendly Neighbour
Discard: Vanilla

Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu
Pick: Witch
Discard: Vanilla

Enchant
Discard: Untopped Post Restrictor

Aisa
Pick: Security Guard

Gimli
Pick: Mysterious Musician

Marashu
Pick: Cloud Seeder

KittyTacky
Pick: Inverse Killer

Flips:

TemporalLich - Town Meta-Neighbor --- Discard: Extension
Yume - Town [One-Shot Meticulous] Tracker
Doctor Drew - Arsonist Cartel Multitargeting Meta-Janitor Meta-Neighbor
Herta - Town Universal Miller (Must Pick card)

[Aisa]

True

Summary of mechanical information so far:

Claims:

Kyoko Kirigiri
Pick: Modified Friendly Neighbour
Discard: Vanilla

Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu
Pick: Witch
Discard: Vanilla

Enchant
Discard: Untopped Post Restrictor

Aisa
Pick: Security Guard

Gimli
Pick: Mysterious Musician

Marashu
Pick: Cloud Seeder

KittyTacky
Pick: Inverse Killer

Not_Mafia
Discard: Neighbor

Flips:

TemporalLich - Town Meta-Neighbor --- Discard: Extension
Yume - Town [One-Shot Meticulous] Tracker
Doctor Drew - Arsonist Cartel Multitargeting Meta-Janitor Meta-Neighbor
Herta - Town Universal Miller (Must Pick card)
[/quote]

[Aisa]

Why exactly do we wanna massclaim again?

Maybe the individual players who have not yet massclaimed are in a better position to evaluate whether claiming will be useful? Catching a scum off a bad claim seems like a very remote possibility.

[Aisa]

I kinda don't want Fuyu or Gimli plundered N3; they both have abilities that send messages to their recipients, so if they use those abilities then they aren't dousing.

I’ve already said my target receives no notice if my visiting them.

they don't know what they can't post?

Yup. That’s why I thought it might be more sporting to claim on Day 1.

Sporting? Making yourself a target to be more sporting to scum?

That's like outing your hand in poker to be more sporting to your opponent.

I mean I think it would be pretty anti-town to not claim this role. I'm not sure this really makes sense.

[Aisa]

True

Summary of mechanical information so far:

Claims:

Kyoko Kirigiri
Pick: Modified Friendly Neighbour
Discard: Vanilla

Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu
Pick: Witch
Discard: Vanilla

Enchant
Discard: Untopped Post Restrictor

Aisa
Pick: Security Guard

Gimli
Pick: Mysterious Musician

Marashu
Pick: Cloud Seeder

KittyTacky
Pick: Inverse Killer

Not_Mafia
Discard: Neighbor

Flips:

TemporalLich - Town Meta-Neighbor --- Discard: Extension
Yume - Town [One-Shot Meticulous] Tracker
Doctor Drew - Arsonist Cartel Multitargeting Meta-Janitor Meta-Neighbor
Herta - Town Universal Miller (Must Pick card)

Why are there only links for some roles?

It doesn't have any special meaning beyond which roles I looked up in the abloaf thread at the time I made the list

[Aisa]

Anyway, the plan seems good to me - I'll target whoever I think would be most useful to target tonight and claim at the start of tomorrow

[Aisa]

VOTE: No elim

[Aisa]

Hi hi I targeted Gimli last night

Spoiler: hi

[Aisa]

Would you be terribly offended if I disappeared for 20 minutes and then came back to talk Gimli

[Aisa]

Cool - extreme towniness on demand in 20 minutes, then

[Aisa]

I am back, in case anyone wanted to talk. Otherwise I'll reread the game a bit and do some posting in my own time.

[Aisa]

I think robbing Kitty is play.

I tried to roleblock Kitty and shot didn't happen?

Kitty you didn't try to shot?

Uh, what?

Okay if you want you can rob me.

Also what? If you're a roleblocker that's useful

[Aisa]

Marashu - I have some rough thoughts, but tbh I just have not been keeping up with the game as much as I should've and to flesh out the ideas I will need to talk to folks a bit more. But here are my rough thoughts:

Aisa - it me
Kyoko - Pirate
NM - Pirate

Marashu - I think this is town because of the way you've been playing, Your role is a pro-town role to have. I can't see many ways scum would be able to use it to their benefit. And certainly what I would do is not go and claim this on Day 1, and try to get everyone to coordinate. Is this a bad reason to tr someone?
KittyTacky - Also probably got a bad reason to tr this, but if I were scum I would simply not claim that I was an inverse killer, and try to take advantage of hail when Marashu claimed. Kitty has yielded pretty happily to the common consensus at the end of the day both nights and I feel like they haven't done much to try to influence that consensus, so they're not likely the arsonist.
Gimli - I think this is town. The vibe seems towny. One thing that makes me doubt this a bit is that I was just looking back over Drew's elim and his reaction there does look like it could be theatre.
Kokichi Oma - I feel like as a game collectively we've just let this slot slide for too long? Like looking back at my iso I was thinking about this slot a few days ago and then mostly forgot about it. Definitely on my list to look more into.
Fuyuhiko - I don't think I ever said that I felt like an idiot when I realised she was Gamma! I'm still pretty undecided on this slot.
Enchant - think this is pretty sus, I know Gimli has townread him for mech posting, but I'm not sure the mech posting has been super sound.

[Aisa]

Maybe throw in Kokichi into the scum bucket for just voting me

Wow, you're also very good at this game. I must be scum for voting you.

Wow, nice selective quoting me

Maybe throw in Kokichi into the scum bucket for just voting me by quoting Marashu's post instead of giving any original justification.

This was one of the things I was looking back at which I regret letting slide. Can you explain this now please, Kokichi

[Aisa]

Not really useful in game with Arsonists.

Why not?

[Aisa]

I'm moreso asking what made you decide to quote exactly that snippet of mine you quoted.
That quote looks literally so much worse without the context I provided and it meant you avoided actually explaining what your reasons for voting me were at the time. I get that you might not remember, but yeah, if you do happen to remember...

[Aisa]

I'm moreso asking what made you decide to quote exactly that snippet of mine you quoted.
That quote looks literally so much worse without the context I provided and it meant you avoided actually explaining what your reasons for voting me were at the time. I get that you might not remember, but yeah, if you do happen to remember...

Counter wagon good.

At this point I think I'm fine with voting anyone except Marashu, Kitty and Kirigiri possibly

Your teammates?

You're too good at this game.

Maybe throw in Kokichi into the scum bucket for just voting me

Wow, you're also very good at this game. I must be scum for voting you.

Con text. Also rest of the post is fluf so.

The context I'm talking about is not the rest of your posting, it's the rest of my posting, aka the bolded line here:

Spoiler:

Maybe throw in Kokichi into the scum bucket for just voting me

Wow, you're also very good at this game. I must be scum for voting you.

Wow, nice selective quoting me

Maybe throw in Kokichi into the scum bucket for just voting me by quoting Marashu's post instead of giving any original justification.

Also the rest of which post is fluff?

[Aisa]

I have KT locktown

Why do you have KT locktown?

[Aisa]

It seems to me that Enchant's behaviour does check out with his claim today.

That's why i asked to be robbered.

That's the only part I don't get?

[Aisa]

A certain slot with a purple haired avatar and a checkered scarf is still dodging my question

[Aisa]

Am I missing something or does it not make sense for KT to shoot anyone?
I guess maybe Kokichi's role does something I don't understand?

If not, either KT is town in which case his shot won't go through anyway
Or KT is scum in which case either he'll just shoot someone and implicate himself, or do nothing and claim his shot didn't go through

[Aisa]

Evil Vig Disabler

Vigilantes not aligned with the Town cannot target people with the killing action of a Vigilante, visit people with the killing action of a Vigilante or kill people with the killing action with a Vigilante.

This ability ceases to function at the start of the day if you are dead.

Inverse Killer

Each night you may target a player. If you were instead performing a "Vigilante" action instead of this ability, and that action would

not

cause the death of the targeted player, then activate the following effect.
The targeted player unavoidably die. This effect is untargeted and cannot be stopped.

Just to recap, this is due to the interaction of Kitty and Enchant's roles

[Aisa]

I am a very single minded bunny
I see all this controversy
and all I thought was this was going to be my time of redemption, that the pirates would check me and we would all live happily ever after*

*until the arsonists torch us all to ashes but bunnies can't think more than 1 day ahead

[Aisa]

With that said I resign myself to reading all the setup spec now

[Aisa]

Yeah, I've read it all and what Kyoko and Marashu are saying makes sense.
Very strictly speaking the ideal check tonight changes depending on who is scum - like obviously the best check is the one that hits scum. If Koki is town then in some sense the ideal check is outside of the trio (*waves*), if Koki is scum it is definitely better to check inside the trio.

[Aisa]

Wait, that's a silly wait of thinking about it - actually if we don't hit scum inside the trio then pirates checking inside the trio guarantees us finding a scum by tomorrow. That makes sense.

[Aisa]

Aisa is here
I targeted Kokichi last night, I thought that if he was town then the arsonists might try to douse him, he’s not gonna claim that for obvious reasons

[Aisa]

As for the rest… I don’t see how this isn’t a win unless the pirates decide to troll us

[Aisa]

Says mr 50% arsonist xx

[Aisa]

Says mr 50% arsonist xx

what do you mean with this?

I was talking to Enchant
If Marashu and furtive are town then that leaves [Enchant, Gimli] as possible arsonists fmpov
Assumes that there aren’t 4 arsonists I guess

[Aisa]

Hopefully that’s total trolling >.>
I get the Pirates can townside and that the arsonists are a slightly weak faction but 7v4v2 seems a bit too not-townsided

This is about Kokichi’s latest post

[Aisa]

Meatworld calls, but I can post in an hour or so if Meg hasn’t locked the game by then

[Aisa]

Well, looks like this game is just going great for me, huh?

I'm not an Arsonist. I know my chances of getting whichever one of you two is also Town on board are quite slim. I'm sure today is going to be a long road.

[Aisa]

I also think Enchant is the arsonist

Initial thoughts are that I'm tempted to look at this to decode whatever went on last Night, but trusting NM at their word is often not a good idea, is it?

[Aisa]

Except that any plan that apparently points to one person also makes sense to, you know, take suspicion away from any other person. I've seen scum argue so many times that X wouldn't do this to Y unless they were a certain alignment.

[Aisa]

Sigh
Don't blame you but was worried this would happen

[Aisa]

Nah, you're good. Both Enchant and I are trolling you.

[Aisa]

^You two hammering me

Cool cool back to work I'll post more thoughts later

[Aisa]

Congratulations on your win, town and pirates. A lot of you did well and called out at least parts of the scumteam.

This felt like a pretty rough game for me. I think I did ok at some points but ultimately lacked motivation, especially when I started to get scumread. I set out to use a tone that (imo) was a bit different from my usual for both alignments, but I did not obtain a convincingly towny result, I think.

[Aisa]

I agree the pirates could potentially have swung either way, and that’s not something you can really control in the design phase, and this is a bastard setup. Most importantly.

Thanks to my scumpartners. I’m sure I was a bit grumpy at points but they were very accommodating of that.

Kokichi claimed his real role, and we spent hours of our lives speculating on what his actions might do, and I still don’t know what the actions do and look forward to finding out.

Also probably just shouldn’t have given up on dayplay as early as I did.

[Aisa]

Reading dead thread it’s interesting that Meg and I had a pretty different idea of my chances of winning in the end

[Aisa]

Mathematically the value of arsonists is increased the more people that are alive, because a correct elimination is less likely.
The exception would be if you think it would be easier to convince one of enchant/gimli over marashu/furtive.

That makes sense!
I guess fmpov I was nearly mechanically guiltied and Marashu and furtive were nearly mechanically cleared, so killing Marashu and furtive didn’t make much of a difference. And talking 1 townie out of 2 into a moment of folly is easier than talking 2 townies out of 4 into a moment of folly. And maybe, maybe, one of Kokichi’s actions was going to help me out from beyond the grave somehow.

I think Kokichi's war action turned out funny. Since the witch hadn't submitted an action there was no word chosen so no effect on that end (lowered the 3 shot to 2 shot though) and if Kitty had aimed the inverse killer at someone other than furtive it would've resolved as a kill. (Possibly even falsely outing kitty to enchant as scum from his role)

That is pretty funny yeah