Mini 2287: AB:LoAF (Postgame)

[Marashu]

Claiming farmer, potato or otherwise.

VOTE: Lich - fine line between

loaf

ing and being a

dead

beat.

[Marashu]

Besides memes, why would the meta janitor leave out N_M?

[Marashu]

Hey I drew Miller so there's that.

VOTE: TemporalLich

Does it tell you what type of miller you are?

[Marashu]

Benign factions can win with town, but that doesn't necessarily make them pro-town. Some can be disruptive, and since there's just a 50% chance of a benign faction being in the game (vs a 50% chance of 2 different anti-town factions) and scum can just lie about it anyway, I don't think I would trust a 3P Benign or benign groupscum claim.

I've not played in any Grand Idea style games before. Is massclaim on the table? I don't think it's alignment indicative but it would hold people accountable. I would propose starting with Herta (who has already narrowed his claim down to 4) and popcorning from there. Thoughts?

[Marashu]

I think page 3 is a little early for mass claiming here. Unless you have something to gain from this.



VOTE: Marashu[/v}

I kind of do, but it doesn't need to be so early.

[Marashu]

In a mini game like this, there are 3 factions guaranteed: town, a "true groupscum", and a random non-town 3rd alignment. 36 has a list of all possible alignments. So we guaranteed have something from the first list, and we have something from any of the four lists.

Universal Miller(Must pick)

You must pick this role if you recieve it in picks unless you would also be forced to pick the other recieved role, then you may choose.
Other roles always treat you as a vanilla role of the groupscum alignment with the smallest amount of members at game start(randomize if tied).
Warning:A vanilla role of the Conspirators returns "town" to alignment cops!

Herta is claiming this. From what I understand, most (if not all) groupscum have a miller name associated with them, so herta should at least know one of the groupscum in the game. If it's not a true groupscum, we will know that there are no solo 3p; if it is true groupscum it offers less info.

[Marashu]

On a semi-related note, I can't think of a super obvious reason for why Herta shouldn't full claim, I don't think not knowing the exact flavour of miller will cause scum to slip or anything like that.

This is fair. There's nothing scum gains here other than a heads up. It's a universal miller which means that my check returns the smallest faction that exists at the beginning of the game. Which I think will be useful to learn. I don't know what that faction is so I'm curious myself. So if there's a cop with a shot they don't have a good idea about, take it on me.

But, like, cops have names based on groupscum present, just like millers (if I'm understanding the game's flavour correctly). So if you are saying your role is actually Miller, that narrows it down to Conspirators or Guardians (and your role explicitly says that if you are a miller for Conspirators you would show up as a vanilla townie). That said...

I could've picked it out of the abloaf thread and hoped no one actually got it.

I think this is just as likely (especially since I don't think there's anything preventing multiples of the same role rolling? But I'm not sure). Roughly 10% chance of anyone getting this role (26 picks out of 252) vs the 1 in 13 of Conspirators being the groupscum in this game. I don't think it's unreasonable to say one of these is true, but a must-pick role being present at all in the list is convenient. For the record, I do think claiming miller right away is the right choice (others may disagree), but I'm not a fan of how slow getting any other info out of you was.

In either case, if we see two alignments outside of {Conspirators, Guardians} we should eliminate Herta IMO.

@Temporal, mind expanding a bit on your KittyTacky read? Also on how your read on me changed from 78 to 133?

[Marashu]

I return vanilla [smallest groupscum faction at the beginning of the game]. It says nothing about conspirators or guardians or any other faction other than town of course. Walk me through this like I'm 5, please.

According to the setup we have 4 factions, so I don't know why you're speculating on how many there are.

I also don't know what you mean by slow to get information out of me. I'm not on a timetable. And even if I were, what difference does/did it make?

I got 3 factions and not 4 from the following:

1. The moderator rolls 1d4. This corresponds to one of the 4 faction lists below.
2. The moderator rolls a random number from 1 to the number of entries in the corresponding list to determine what is present in the game.
3. The moderator rolls an additional number on the True Groupscum list.

One faction from any of the lists. One faction from True Groupscum. Town. Those are the three factions.

As I said, I might be misunderstanding how flavour works. My understanding was that 'Miller', 'Cop', 'Mason', etc would be changed to match whichever faction it is reflecting/investigating/excluding. For example, in the Dark Creatures entry, Miller is listed as 'Abyssal'. So my expectation is that your card would read Universal Must-Pick Abyssal. So either I'm wrong about how the role flavourings work (which, I'll be honest, is definitely a possibility), or we're in a setup where you would return as a Guardian/Conspirator (since those are the only two groupscum that would have Miller as Miller), or you're antitown who wanted to claim miller early but didn't know about miller flavour, and it's this last possibility that has me so fixated on sorting your claim.

[Marashu]

I also am not sure where is everyone going with the miller discussions.

A player claims miller. how is that too "specific" to not be claimed by scum? how is that a bad play if they are town?

its just a normal miller claim and I don't see anything we can get out of it by talking about it in day 1. I wish instead of that people would talk about their reads and how they feel about each other.

Sorry, I think I'm expecting a lot more out of this than I can get, and have been hyperfocusing way too much. I was hoping at least to learn one of the groupscum factions so we could try to plan around it. I can take a step back; I think I've said what I need to about my thoughts on the miller claim anyway.

[Marashu]

Sorry, lost track of time!

Because now I've cornered them into them NEEDING to have a reason. Later in the game if it comes to a point that their role doesn't have a reason for this, then they are caught lying.



I'm Smart huh?

This reasoning makes sense to me.

Should we share discards

I don't think there's a point because, with the meta janitor, it makes it SUPER easy to just lie about, and I don't think that there's any AI info to glean from it.

now the good players figure out if this is worth its salt and we either move elsewhere or do what y'all want

I'm starting to have doubts about Gimli.

UNVOTE: I'd be ok with a TL elimination today. I'm not keen on some of Enchant's reactions (specifically how Enchant reacted to the VT discard claim) so I'm not sure why people are saying Enchant comes out looking town from that exchange.

[Marashu]

Summary of claims so far:

Herta
Pick: Universal Miller (Must Pick)

TemporalLich
Pick: Meta-Neighbour
Discard: Extension

Doctor Drew
Pick: Meta-Neighbour

Kyoko Kirigiri
Discard: Vanilla

Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu
Discard: Vanilla

Enchant
Discard: Untopped Post Restrictor

To my understanding Doctor Drew didn't pick Meta-Neighbour; by TL picking it, Doctor Drew's slot was brought into the neighbourhood.

[Marashu]

I realize I edited out why I unvoted. I don't want to rush the day.

[Marashu]

I'm debating whether I should force the claim issue or wait a day to prove myself. I will say I have a role that is difficult for scum to interfere with and works best when coordinated with town. I have a back-up plan if we decide to not coordinate.

[Marashu]

I don't really understand the importance of associatives in this game, at least at this point, when we don't know the number of factions and what they are/how big they are.

You're right in that we don't know how big they are, but we. do. know. how. many. factions. there. are.

[Marashu]

I just realized there is only one multitasking role in the deck and that factions don't have multitasking by default. I think there's a lot to gain from coordinating, and I think it's better to use these early. I'ma claim.

Cloud Seeder

Twice per game during the day, choose one. It will be announced by the end of the day:

• Rain
  - Each player who uses a targeted action tonight will be announced tomorrow.
  
• Hail
  - All targeted actions passively fail tonight, and any limited abilities prevented this way will be refunded a shot if used.
  
• Fog
  - All targeted actions will be randomized tonight.
  
• Snow
  - Each player who is targeted by an action tonight will be announced tomorrow.

If we can't coordinate, I'm turning on hail for the next 2 days. Since it would stop all targeted abilities, that means no nightkills until N3. Drawback is, nothing targeted like cops until then either, but I think the good outweighs the bad. My ability activates during the day and since there are no day roleblockers, it will go through. Daylight Cult do get a factional daykill D2, though, so 1 in 13 chance of things going south with that option.

As fun as fog would be (especially if I got this role as scum!), I'm not choosing that option.

Depending on what roles we have, we should work with Rain or Snow. Rain could help us figure out if there's someone using a faction ability when they claim a passive ability. If we decide on targets, because of a lack of multitasking we can organize that and see who wasn't targeted but should have been (or at least get some information about what's going on there). Either way, as I said, my role works best with coordination and is difficult to disrupt (I'm painting a pretty big target on myself if groupscum is worried about this triggering twice). I want a massclaim so we can organize. If it doesn't happen, then I'll just be picking hail.

[Marashu]

If we don't massclaim but do want to use an investigative rather than overprotective, I think I prefer rain>snow.

[Marashu]

So it looks like taking the meta-neighbor role did not guarantee TLich would have a partner in it?

Incorrect.

TLich already had hood during discards and knew who is in it.

If TLich pick Meta Neighbour, hood are not closed.
If Meta Neighbour discarded, this hood closes, but continues to exist.

yeah that's what I said
why would he pick it if no one was in it though?

You have access to a meta-neighborhood PT with another random player

if this card is one of the role cards you can pick.

Bolded relevant part of the role - during the role selection stage, the random player will already be in the neighbourhood. They can then discuss whether to keep this role or to close the neighbourhood.

[Marashu]

Are we claiming things to determine what Marashu is doing?

Seems like a discussion point. I think it would be better. Kokichi disagrees. I feel like it would make people accountable and if we plan things right we could glean more information than otherwise. Drawback is, scum know what roles are in the game.

[Marashu]

With rain, just who acts.
With snow, just who is the target.

I think if it also gave action (x did y) it would defeat the purpose of the game.

[Marashu]

Snow would be useful in the case of someone saying "I'm going to target x tonight." If x was not targeted and y dies when nobody claimed they would target y, barring shenanigans we'd have a good place to start looking for scum.

[Marashu]

And in the case where all targets are accounted for, there'd be a decent chance one of the non-target roles (like miller or neighbour or janitor) have a faction ability. That said, if they show up with rain, there'd be even less doubt.

[Marashu]

Does anyone have meta with kitty? is this true?

I was in one game with KittyTacky. I find it hard to say whether this is true or not, because in that game town!KittyTacky was under pressure pretty much from the start. I think a major difference between the two is how much KittyTacky was quoting other players to engage or as reference for his posts. Contrast that with:

I got distracted. Honestly yeah, TL's page 10 posts are scummy imo.

VOTE: TemporalLich

[Marashu]

lich, are there jesters in the setup?

Benign third party introduction:Deathseeker
At Night 1, you may choose a number amongst 4, 5 and 6 and 7
If you choose 4 you must die during the 4th day or night of the game.
If you choose 5 you must die during the 5th day or night of the game.
If you choose 6 you must die during the 6th day or night of the game.
If you choose 7 you must die after the 6th day and the 6th night of the game have passed.
If you succeed you win the game and leave.
If you fail you leave the game and lose.

[Marashu]

I wish to be able to post content, I really do, but it's still D1 and that's when I am still in the 'floundering' stage.

Make a comment on one thing, just one thing, about the current game state.

[Marashu]

I think I'm fine with Hail if that's the consensus. Mara I think you should choose though.

I sent in my action around when TL reached E-2 (at around 470). I wanted to see if anyone would try rushing "before I could send an action in". Forecast is calling for hail.

[Marashu]

I'm against going for Yume because there's nothing there. There's no content worth mentioning in the ISO, and no game-advancing content from Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:47 am - Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:14 pm (the post on Jan 31 was a prodge at best).

I'm fascinated by N_M voting for KT. Someone with better meta on N_M, is this something town!N_M would do? Or is this just a game-advancing prodge?

I think I'm ready to vote TL. I would vote it now but I'm kinda curious to see if KT will be delivering the promised catch-up from 504. I know there would be more time to do a catch-up during the night, but this way at least we're holding KT accountable. But if nobody else wants to wait I'd be fine with TL being the D1 elimination.

TL, can you explain to me why Gimli is obvtown?

[Marashu]

I'm against going for Yume because there's nothing there. There's no content worth mentioning in the ISO, and no game-advancing content from Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:47 am - Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:14 pm (the post on Jan 31 was a prodge at best).

Realized my reasoning was unclear. I don't think activity is indicative of alignment, and would rather not risk losing a townie just because they aren't playing. At the same time, this shouldn't be condoned and I understand why this could be a policy elim. I'd rather just try finding scum, though.

PEdit - yeah, I could see that regarding KT. I'd also be ok with a KT elimination.

[Marashu]

That's E-2 for KT, by the way

[Marashu]

VOTE: TemporalLich

[Marashu]

My ability causes all targeted actions to fail
KT's ability, if it fails, causes an untargeted unstoppable kill.

If KT is town and assuming not Daylight Cult, we could get 3 elims and 2 vig shots before any scum/3P night actions.

[Marashu]

From what I understand, it goes through on the original intended target. So yes.

[Marashu]

My phone autocorrects vig to big.

New role: the Big. Armed with a minigun and over 300 bullets to gun down scum with.

DONE

[Marashu]

1 shot of weather remaining, yes.

I'd rather not - it helps us sort you if we can know why you're picking who you pick. So... this might have an obvious answer but I'm going to ask anyway, why Yume?

[Marashu]

Are you shitting me? I think a better question is why did those two think it was a good idea to drop such low-quality bait into the thread?

My question is why they didn't go even lower-quality and say they had a guilty on Herta?

[Marashu]

We don't have Dragoon as the Any faction.

I genuinely don't think we have Doom Seekers as the Groupscum faction, judging from flavour (this faction has flavour-related effects).

We'll probably find out if we have Daylight Cult today; they get a day faction kill on even days (they can use it at night, and while it can't be blocked by things that happen simultaneously, it can be blocked by existing effects, so hail would block it. If they want a kill they need to do it during the day).

Because it was mentioned that we might have multiple groupscum hunting each other, it is worth noting that most Compleationists don't know they are scum (only one starts the game as knowing they are scum, but they know who their team is and needs to "recruit" them to wake them up). I'm not convinced we're in this setup but don't want to rule it out; we might be in a situation with 1 informed scum and a solo 3P (benign or otherwise).

I thought it was possible TL was unrecruited Conspirator, but TL would have flipped without alignment if that were the case. Conspirators was my #1 pick before, but I am less convinced now.

[Marashu]

We don't have Dragoon as the Any faction.

I genuinely don't think we have Doom Seekers as the Groupscum faction, judging from flavour (this faction has flavour-related effects).

We'll probably find out if we have Daylight Cult today; they get a day faction kill on even days (they can use it at night, and while it can't be blocked by things that happen simultaneously, it can be blocked by existing effects, so hail would block it. If they want a kill they need to do it during the day).

Because it was mentioned that we might have multiple groupscum hunting each other, it is worth noting that most Compleationists don't know they are scum (only one starts the game as knowing they are scum, but they know who their team is and needs to "recruit" them to wake them up). I'm not convinced we're in this setup but don't want to rule it out; we might be in a situation with 1 informed scum and a solo 3P (benign or otherwise).

I thought it was possible TL was unrecruited Conspirator, but TL would have flipped without alignment if that were the case. Conspirators was my #1 pick before, but I am less convinced now.

I have 0 clue what some of these are. I'm assuming no day kills or we would have had one yesterday?

Dragoon - 3rd party who needs to be in final 3, and steals win from other factions
Doom Seeker - group scum who get stronger by targeting other players.
Daylight Cult - can only attack on even numbered day/nights (so no daykill D1), and can recruit on day 3 and every 4 days after that.
Compleationists - kind of confusing, but only one is "awake" and the rest are sleeper agents. The awake one can recruit the sleepers at night by targeting them, and if ever it's only sleepers alive, one sleeper will wake up at random.
Conspirators - passive godfathers. They have 1 (at this game size) who isn't in the scum PT (who loses if not recruited and their partners die). Their partners have a list of players who could be the scum who is not in the group PT, but for every potential member, there's someone else on the list who is not aligned to them. They can pull someone from the list into their PT, but the risk is that if they pull the person who is not on their team, that person then has full access to the scum PT and could rat them out. People are told if they are on "the list".

[Marashu]

Aisa, did you ever get a chance to look at anyone else? Where are you at right now?

[Marashu]

any ways eno ugh soft clai ming

I can full claim end of day. Thin king ab out it

I thought it was about word length (going 3 or 4 letters) but there's a 5-letter word in there. Also went through the role list and couldn't find anything that would do this (besides Fuyuhiko's claimed Witch role, but that looked like it was specific words). From the way you're posting, is this restriction self-imposed?

Aisa, did you ever get a chance to look at anyone else? Where are you at right now?

Assuming you're talking about that comment I made last gameday. I did look at a few other posters, but settled back onto TL because I townleaned a lot of the active posters. I still think the main thing is getting a read on some of the more lurky slots. I wouldn't quite call Fuyuhiko and Kyoko lurky but I also haven't thought a lot about them. I think there can quite easily be a lot of scum in {KT, NM, Kyoko, Fuyuhiko, Drew}, the thing is figuring out if that's the right read of the gamestate.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about. What do you make of Enchant right now?

Also, clearly claiming my role early on was a fucking mistake.

It might be clear to you but it's not necessarily clear to anyone else; I think the way you claimed was fine. I feel like you're tearing yourself apart with this despite the fact that Kyoko hasn't said anything about that posting pattern being because of you. And if Kyoko does come out and say it, that will raise lots of questions.

[Marashu]

That could have broke or
Marashu could have been lying.

To Group: Was there anyone else who didn't submit?

It started to hail in the town! Any player using a targeted action will fail tonight!

[Marashu]

Still worth the group answering in case any other shenanigans happened

[Marashu]

On second thought, no.

[Marashu]

Also, clearly claiming my role early on was a fucking mistake.

It might be clear to you but it's not necessarily clear to anyone else; I think the way you claimed was fine. I feel like you're tearing yourself apart with this despite the fact that Kyoko hasn't said anything about that posting pattern being because of you. And if Kyoko does come out and say it, that will raise lots of questions.

What kind of questions

Rise them please

Questions like, how did it get through? Some sort of strongman ability? Or are you lying? What's the scum motivation for trying to say that you were post-restricted by Fuyuhiko? What words are actually censored? What's the motivation for Fuyuhiko targeting you but denying it? Are we in a game with an ability-copying role? Should we just 1-for-1 this because there is scum between you and Fuyuhiko? Those kinds of questions.

It's time to play my favorite game: Everyone give me your biggest scumread and the reason as to why. Best answer gets my vote

Right now I'm looking at Doctor Drew. Didn't like his reaction to the obviously very real and not at all troll guilties at day start. I remember vaguely thinking at the time of his entrance D1 that he was repeating similar opinions, but I would need to actually reread that part of the thread and not just look at ISO for it.

[Marashu]

You know I was lying now. what's your conclusions/questions and why not ask them yet?

Those questions only really applied if you were actually claiming that you were post restricted through hail, though? So until you actually came out and accused Fuyuhiko (which you didn't), my questions there didn't matter. You've explained your reasoning for what you were doing. As for conclusions/questions, I can tell you were testing Fuyuhiko's role, but what did you glean out of Fuyuhiko's alignment from that?

[Marashu]

Mara, can you clarify what you mean by 'repeating similar opinions'? I skimmed the thread somewhat before I replaced in, and then a bit more after I officially joined, those were my quick slight observations about the game at the time.

And as far as my reaction to enchant and not Mafia. I saw the two guiltys right in a row, first was confused of the false guiltys and then why they posted basically at the same time. Then remembered it was hailing and really thought I caught scum in some sort of gambit, which is why I kept saying that besides me being town, there is one other big reason why this is impossible. Then I realized it was all probably a reaction test, and trolling by Not Mafia, and I stopped paying attention to it, especially after Not Mafia said he was a gunsmith.

I feel a bit dumb I didn't immediately think reaction test first, but not the first time that has happened sadly lol.

So "repeating similar opinions" might not have been the best wording, but it all felt kind of surface level. But I also see now that you admitted in the post I was thinking of that it was surface level.

TL changing their Mara for no reason.....when Mara was the first town ping I got was a bit....weird?

^ this was something that caused TL to get a lot of scrutiny in early game, so 6 pages later it wasn't really a bold take.

And it was Kiki...or Kyoko, sorry I am gonna fuck that up a lot(damn anime names and avatars), who called that out as well......seems towny(or at least not the same alignment as TL).

I thought this one was just kind of echoing your previous statement, but when I look back, it's also wrong? I called it out first in the post immediately following TL's list, but besides myself, the first one to really challenge the shift in opinion was Aisa in 144.

There was something I didn't like about Kitty's early posting, but changed my tuned as I kept skimming, will revisit that as I read the thread again.

I think I stand corrected on this one, since at the time KT was under some scrutiny for not engaging. I'm curious about what changed your tune at the time, considering the next time you mention KT is when you vote for that slot at the end of D1.

My bigger concern is the reaction. Scum have a harder time noticing jokes than town. The reasoning was explained to me a while ago but I'm not great at explaining it, but basically because they have more that they need to think about in their reactions, they have a hard time picking up on it. Not a flawless way of scumhunting by a long shot, but in a recent game I was in I caught someone who missed several jokes, got talked out of pursuing them, and sure enough, they were scum. I can see scum!Doctor prioritizing diverting suspicion over laughing at the joke, even if it was clearly a joke.

I don't like that pretty much the instant I said I wanted to look at your slot there were suddenly 3 votes there - it's making me paranoid.

PEdit - Gimli, if we're in a conspirator game then there would be someone who is Lone, yes. I had thought that TL might have been that, to be honest. Aisa mentioned that I was probably wrong since Herta's role name was Universal Miller and not Miller.

N_M, your type change makes Whitney sad.

[Marashu]

Darn, not Aisa. Someone else. Let me find who.

[Marashu]

Or I'm blind (in my defense, it was hidden by spoiler tags). 170

[Marashu]

Or I'm blind (in my defense, it was hidden by spoiler tags). 170

ah, I see. so we're not necessarily playing against that groupscum.

you and enchant mentioned us knowing how many factions there are in the game. I'm not sure I read why or, if I did, I didn't understand.

TLDR is that in the setup post, mod says there's one true groupscum and one "Any" alignment (could be solo or another groupscum). So it's 2 non-town alignments in the game.

[Marashu]

Not many other strongman effects that I could see that didn't need very specific circumstances. (there might be some hiding in wording though)
Doom Seekers do get factional strong man, but they're the group I'm most sure is not in the game because part of what their faction does is mess with flavour.
Did KT take that role as scum? Ehhh, maybe? If so, then scum could have a faction kill every night if they suspect a town roleblocker or protective roles. It seems strange that KT would claim it if scum, though.

[Marashu]

Snow would be useful in the case of someone saying "I'm going to target x tonight." If x was not targeted and y dies when nobody claimed they would target y, barring shenanigans we'd have a good place to start looking for scum.

let's bring this to the table today?

Not against it. I'd want to make sure we're coordinated if we do it though.

[Marashu]

If we're not using hail, absolutely. If we are going another round of hail, then maybe? I still think there's some advantage to it but I can certainly see the arguments against.

[Marashu]

Basically a fruit vendor. A few roles and a couple alignments (most notably Mysterious Electricians) use the energy, but there's no guarantee they are in the game.

[Marashu]

Oh, but a couple places reference that mysterious energy might do something in a game:

Mod Note: This role charges someone with a mysterious energy indefinitely. (Roles like Mysterious Eidolon can lose mysterious energy charge)

Still, have fun figuring out what being charged with a mysterious energy does.

If Mysterious Energy remains undefined, then the moderator may decide what Mysterious Energy does.

So it's possible that you do something and only Mod knows what.

[Marashu]

Can someone explain how this conspirators works? Confused on that one. They don't know mafia and mafia knows them?

Conspirators is the name of the groupscum. Lone is a member of the groupscum but are not in the scum PT and do not know who their teammates are. The ones in the PT have a list of POSSIBLE teammates, but half the list will be people who are not on their team. For example, with these players:

A - Conspirator
B - Conspirator
C- Lone Conspirator
D - Town
E - Town

A and B would share a PT. C wins with A and B, but if both A and B are removed from the game, C loses. A and B receive a list, saying either C or D is their partner. They can choose to bring in anyone on the list. If they choose C, C is no longer a loner, and will not lose if A and B are removed from the game. However, if they choose to bring D in to the PT, that means there's a townie with full access to the scum PT. D is also informed that they are on the list, so D would know that it's possible to get recruited, and would know that it's a conspirator game. C and D also don't flip their alignments on death.

[Marashu]

Um, what? This... but... the Picks PM has alignment in it, so you know what alignment you are when you pick..? What?

[Marashu]

I think this makes is more likely that you do have the must pick miller role.

[Marashu]

Or I'm blind (in my defense, it was hidden by spoiler tags). 170

ah, I see. so we're not necessarily playing against that groupscum.

you and enchant mentioned us knowing how many factions there are in the game. I'm not sure I read why or, if I did, I didn't understand.

TLDR is that in the setup post, mod says there's one true groupscum and one "Any" alignment (could be solo or another groupscum). So it's 2 non-town alignments in the game.

I was under the impression of possibly 4 total scum. so it could be as many as 6? with 3 in each?

Maybe? The setup doesn't go into exact number, just that the mod should balance alignments. The example provided has 9:3:1. I don't know if that would become 9:2:2 or 8:3:2 or 7:3:3, but if it's 7:3:3 this is going to be a very difficult game.

[Marashu]

Yes kinda

So what weather do you forecast would yield the best results for town?

[Marashu]

Feeling wiped today. Will effort more tomorrow.

[Marashu]

I don't think N_M and Drew are both scum together.

I think there's a good chance of scum being in {Aisa,Drew}. Slightly leaning more towards Aisa for a couple reasons. I wasn't a fan of where Aisa landed for the scum POE (it seemed kind of low-reaching), and the post Aisa use for reference to townread Enchant seems a bit weak? (840 referencing 809). But I'm also concerned that I don't see as much suspicion as I would expect from this slot. For example:

It's more that I at least townlean everyone else!

I've touched on this slightly, but I voted Fuyuhiko partly to vote someone.

I know Aisa said this playerlist seems to be cautious with votes, and I can see that, but I am seeing more scrutiny from a lot of other slots. Even looking at Aisa's case on Fuyuhiko, I see a lot of hesitance. I can't tell if this is just because Aisa is checked out or not, but there seems to be something tonally off for this slot? But I haven't played with Aisa before.

Even though I'm townleaning Gimli currently, I think an {Aisa, Gimli} scumpair is possible. Hm. As I'm going through the playlist, there are a few players I could see as partners with scum!Aisa (namely Gimli, Herta, Enchant, Kokichi). I'm having a harder time seeing that with Doctor Drew (which, I guess if you are scum, good job?)

VOTE: Aisa

[Marashu]

Does Gimli saying they don't town read Aisa make you take pause at their possibly of a scum pair? Or are you just dismissing that as wifom.

Um, are you talking about when Gimli decided to re-evaluate Aisa in 947? So far as I could tell, that ended with 988.

And in the flip side of that, not sure I could see Herta and Aisa scum together (and I obviously feel like Herta is the scummier of the two, but I am also not opposed to voting Aisa).

And then you say stuff like this. Posts like 917 and 926 really do sound like you could see them as scum together, so I'm not sure why you don't think so here? What has changed?

I can't really comment about Enchant and Aisa, outside of there fake guilty, nothing really sticks out that could connect them.

I put this one down because I could see it as a possibility; the reasons for Aisa excluding Enchant from the scum POE seemed a bit weak to me.

Koki and Aisa I could see, if I remember correctly (and thise damn anime avatars have me all confused lol) there hasn't been much between them that isn't, too me at least, superficial.

This one might be me being paranoid, but yeah, I'm not seeing much scrutiny here between the two slots. Or rather, after doing an ISO on Kokichi, this might just be on Aisa's end. Like, I've liked some of Kokichi's reasoning elsewhere in the game, but I also feel like I would regret taking my eyes off Kokichi.

[Marashu]

UNVOTE: Aisa

There are a few things that get around weather, all kind of specific. N_M, is it your role or someone else's role that let you get your guilty through hail?

Flipping N_M to confirm the guilty on Drew might not be bad, but N_M might be town here. I think if we're getting rid of N_M, the slot should be voted, not vigged.

I think lurkier slots are more likely to be scum. Sadly, because I'd like to believe that the outcome of a mafia game is not just determined by who puts more time into it, but that's a digression.

I think we might need to agree to disagree on this one. I really don't think that activity = alignment.

PEdit: Enchant, I was thinking you were responsible tbh. There is a role that would allow it; I just need to confirm how it resolved.

[Marashu]

Surprise me.

Did you lend or give anything to N_M last night?

[Marashu]

I was looking at umbrella, yes.

[Marashu]

I don't know how giving an item is resolved, but it can also be lent for a night, and if it's lent out, I would imagine it applies that night. And the lender is immune to weather before the lending.

[Marashu]

From my POV, there's exactly 1 - you. Which is why I thought you might have done it.

[Marashu]

PS - hail mode is go. I'll look at Fuyuhiko this evening.

[Marashu]

Then why not duplicate the claimed reverse vig to guarantee a shot or two at night?

[Marashu]

Possible, but because the alignment wins alone, it's weird that N_M would do that D2.

[Marashu]

Hm. So if we kill all groupscum before the pirates get to take any night actions, they lose. It is to their benefit if there is at least 1 true groupscum left standing by N3. Neat.

That said, if they plunder town and the groupscum is eliminated, pirates win with town because the only other faction alive at that time would be town. They just need to pick someone on town's side to vanillize - by N3 I'll be out of shots anyway and don't care if you vanillize me, but it wouldn't give any role info if your team plans on using it for rolecopping.

[Marashu]

I wanna go watch MasterChef right now. Before I go, I leave you with this riddle: what if Gimli is the other Pirate

So Pirate is a group scum?

Pirate is a benign groupscum.

Spoiler: Pirates

Faction Introduction:

Pirates

Pirates

have a factional Complex Combined Vanillaiser/ Role Cop action. (the target will lose all personal abilities and the

Pirate

performing their action will learn their role. This fails if used on a vanilla role.

Pirates

win when at least 1 player from each other alignment still alive in the game has been successfully plundered and at least one

Pirate

is alive.
A

Pirate

win causes all members of that faction to leave the game victorious and the rest of the game to continue.
Additional Info:
Cop: Maritime Cop
Godfather: Pirate Captain
Miller: Sailor
Mason: Coast Guard

Factional Concept by KittyTacky

(Note that since this post is a faction introduction it should be treated as "Vanilla" if rolled for a role.)

[Marashu]

Wait, a pirate win means they exit the game with a win. So it's guaranteed that the first person they target and the last person they target are not aligned. And it sounds like people discarded vanilla roles, which are the roles that protect from pirate, oddly enough. That said, if pirates tell us who they are pirating, then if they exit at night, we can basically use that as a parity cop between the first person they target and the last person they target. No reason to hunt/shoot pirates.

[Marashu]

Herta could be a pirate. If herta looked at the picks and saw must-pick miller, herta didn't need to worry about how the pick affected alignment. Then, per steps 6 and 8 of the setup which say that faction PTs are given after all discards are resolved, herta finds out about the faction via PT. I honestly believe Herta didn't see the faction in the original pick PM, which means that herta thinking scum was assigned after the picks might be a scumslip. But that's my tinfoil theory.

At this point, I don't even know.

[Marashu]

Wait, a pirate win means they exit the game with a win. So it's guaranteed that the first person they target and the last person they target are not aligned. And it sounds like people discarded vanilla roles, which are the roles that protect from pirate, oddly enough. That said, if pirates tell us who they are pirating, then if they exit at night, we can basically use that as a parity cop between the first person they target and the last person they target. No reason to hunt/shoot pirates.

But on the flip side, if we wait too long, can't they just side with scum?

Hard for them to scumside, if you think about it. As soon as they find someone of every faction, they leave the game. It's to their benefit to find scum early so that they don't risk dying. But for them to fully scumside, they would need to only plunder scum and have town removed.

[Marashu]

But if we kill both pirates before they get one of each side, then they lose. So it's very much to their advantage to work with town.

[Marashu]

Assuming that the Any faction really are pirates.

[Marashu]

do pirates share a PT? do they know each other? kirigiri said as if she doesn't know who the other pirate is.

Kyoko knows who the other pirate is. Kyoko also called that person 3P, so I think she's treating the entire Pirate faction as a 3P faction that wins independently since it's not a True Groupscum faction.

(also this means I'm not the only 3p in game. there are 2 of us. make whatever you want of the setup based on this info)

[Marashu]

I feel like we're arguing semantics at this point - when I read "us" I see Kyoko identifying as the same alignment as the "another 3P". If there is another benign 3P or benign groupscum that is not pirate, they should CC

[Marashu]

Also, what is all this discussion about me being group scum?

I mean, the category in the setup is called Benign Groupscum...

I agree that this can be resolved later. I think it'll come out if you are lying about being a pirate, but for now I'm at least willing to work with claimed pirates. I assume you're willing to call your plunders once the hail lifts?

You’ll also note Marashu is in there; I honestly don’t see why he isn’t in the discussion as a possible suspect.

Part of why I volunteered to be pirate plunder on N3. There's a good chance I'll be NK'd, but even if scum decide to shoot for more active roles, then I'll be point A of effectively a parity cop, and if the pirates find scum and leave, that'll make it easy enough to resolve my slot. Plus, because I'll be out of shots, it won't be as disruptive to town as if they would plunder another town role.

I don't know. It might be Gimli? Or Herta? VOTE: Gimli

[Marashu]

I mean, there's literally a "groupscum" that only wins if all true groupscum are dead and no town members die at night (namely Heralds), so I agree that the name groupscum is misleading for the benign groupscum category.

[Marashu]

Kyoko, what do you think of my thoughts on Herta in 1379?

[Marashu]

can you show the posts in which you think they scum slipped with thinking alignments were assigned post picking?

1003, 1004, and 1006

[Marashu]

My reasoning is specifically in 1003, because scum!Herta would have noticed the PT after the choice so assumed that's when alignments were given out. But yeah, it could be WIFOM if Herta only noticed town in the final role PM.

[Marashu]

UNVOTE: Made that vote while tired. Need to sleep on this. Will figure out where my vote should actually be in the morning.

[Marashu]

1) I'm not trying to kill kyoko
2) we have only got somewhere on D2 because I pressured wonky and weird things that happened itt.

I get being scumread by kuzu because I scumcase and voted them. By you I don't understand. I feel like I got us somewhere in the game. I saw you unvoted but even still, I don't understand what I did to be voted in the first place.

I'm dumb when I'm tired. I saw kyoko say truescum were probably in the people pushing pirates, I remembered you pushing pirates, and reacted.

[Marashu]

OK with voting Drew now, but can you let us know who you'll be checking tonight since we have a point A parity cop, and if you leave the game we won't know who you targeted?

[Marashu]

Anyway if NM fakeclaimed guilty, then he is HOSTILE against Town.

It means Pirates HOSTILE to town. Therefore they WILL side against us.

Bold of you to assume N_M is not hostile against town as town.

[Marashu]

type of group scum matters too, there were some variant win cons I presume?

Most true groupscum have basically the same wincon of eliminate all threats against them. Some, like Apparitions, are to eliminate all other factions. It's impossible for Witches and Pirates to win together fwiw, because all witches are vanilla and have what would be their role converted into spells.

[Marashu]

It's also a "gunsmith guilty".

[Marashu]

type of group scum matters too, there were some variant win cons I presume?

Most true groupscum have basically the same wincon of eliminate all threats against them. Some, like Apparitions, are to eliminate all other factions. It's impossible for Witches and Pirates to win together fwiw, because all witches are vanilla and have what would be their role converted into spells.

How would witches be vanilla if everyone gets a choice of roles in this setup?

The Witches are all vanilla members, and cannot have passive abilities.

The witches have 2 spells, a factional kill spell and a factional curse spell.
Each spell may not be used in two nights consecutively, and each member may only cast 1 spell each night.
The roles that witches pick are turned into factional spells performing that action. Any passive abilities are made active abilities when making this change.
If a witch picks "Vanilla" as their role they will add a one-shot curse spell that is separate from the original factional curse spell.

[Marashu]

Witches (not to be confused with Witch) is a True Groupscum faction

[Marashu]

Why is that not wise?

The prevailing theory is one of them is scum. So based on that, killing both of them in a row would always kill a scum and a town. I think there’s a better way to approach this. It starts by voting out Drew today.

Go on...

[Marashu]

*shrugs* could be Drew/Aisa. Either way I probably won't be around when deadline rolls around, so VOTE: Doctor Drew.

[Marashu]

Also, what exactly does vig enabler “enable”?

Vigilante Enabler

Vigilantes may no longer attempt to use their Vigilante ability if you are dead. Factional actions are unaffected.

Hm. So unless I'm mistaken, if Aisa dies, KT gets full vig mode unlocked?

[Marashu]

After reading through Drew's ISO, I'm pretty sure it's not KT.

[Marashu]

Because it's arsonists, even if we're at 5:2:2, we probably still have at least 2 more days because they would need time to ignite. Even better if we're 6:1:2

[Marashu]

I'm glad you guys decided to finally listen to me

Because you were the deciding factor.

[Marashu]

But it also buys more time for the parity cop play if they're willing to play nice.

[Marashu]

Right now if I had to guess, I'd say Drew's partner was Aisa.

I also just noticed that Aisa was the first one to push the 'N_M might have been meta janitor' narrative at gamestart.

[Marashu]

Was there hail last night?

It started to hail in the town! Any player using a targeted action will fail tonight!

[Marashu]

that being said, since no one is dying by the scum faction tonight (beside maybe by a vig shot) I want to kindly request to no eim today, so we can plunder a town player and win with you all

I was wondering if you would offer that. I'm personally not against it.

[Marashu]

The only thing is, we don't know if it's 1 or 2 remaining arsonists

[Marashu]

I think today we should massclaim and coordinate. pirates should try to visit T and S so they can leave the game and win. so one of (me, kokichi, zuku?) and aisa if we're not just eliminating aisa today.

By my count, the only people who haven't claimed are Kokichi, Enchant, and N_M.

[Marashu]

I kinda don't want Fuyu or Gimli plundered N3; they both have abilities that send messages to their recipients, so if they use those abilities then they aren't dousing.

[Marashu]

If not for the mass roleblock, right now we would be at 11 players (KT likely would not have had successful vig shots) with 2 doused. I think this game was always going to be a

slow burn

.

[Marashu]

We also know what N_M's discard is

[Marashu]

I kinda don't want Fuyu or Gimli plundered N3; they both have abilities that send messages to their recipients, so if they use those abilities then they aren't dousing.

I’ve already said my target receives no notice if my visiting them.

they don't know what they can't post?

Yup. That’s why I thought it might be more sporting to claim on Day 1.

Oh wow. I completely misunderstood this.

[Marashu]

I was more interested in massclaiming so we could coordinate around the more investigative weathers. If we're doing no elim, then Aisa's role might be more useful without? I dunno, I haven't fully thought that one through yet. A delayed faction kill makes the risk against stronger roles lower, I guess.

[Marashu]

I asked the mod a question about some interactions; I'm waiting until I hear back before voting.

[Marashu]

Doesn't work the way I was hoping. Unfortunate.

VOTE: No Elim

If somehow this gets rushed through overnight, ideal world I'd like Aisa to claim target first, then that target claim any results.

[Marashu]

I'm no longer convinced my idea is the best course of action. 2 trains of thought right now.
1) no planning going into the night. Aisa claims target first at the start of D4, then target claims results, if any. Pro: if Aisa is town, there's a chance of catching arso by them visiting the same target. Con: If Aisa is scum, there's a chance Aisa can claim to target someone nobody else did while actually dousing, which is risky for scum!Aisa but if there's no cc then we're back to where we started I guess. Also if town!Aisa and the shot's a miss, that leaves Aisa as a likely mislim. This plan
2) Aisa targets the same person who would be targeted by FN. Pro: if Aisa is lone remaining arso, it prevents Aisa from dousing or reveals that Aisa did not use Security Guard on planned target. Con: if town!Aisa it means we're not using our investigative to hunt for scum.

@Pirates, I've been assuming all game that groupscum are not multitasking. Can you confirm whether or not that's true?

[Marashu]

(or if you don't care for "groupscum", teams with a factional ability)

[Marashu]

Ok, then yeah, I don't think we should be telling Aisa where to target.

[Marashu]

Just to be clear. There cant be more than 2 scum right? like we cant have 2 / 2 / 1 ?

1. The moderator rolls 1d4. This corresponds to one of the 4 faction lists below.
2. The moderator rolls a random number from 1 to the number of entries in the corresponding list to determine what is present in the game.
3. The moderator rolls an additional number on the True Groupscum list.

Large versions of this game have a guaranteed 2 anti-town factions and a guaranteed 1 benign faction. Mini versions only have one guaranteed anti-town and one "Any" slot that can be anti-town or benign.

[Marashu]

Guess we're waiting for Aisa to check in.

[Marashu]

Aisa, it's been over a week since Drew flipped. Have you had time between then and now to think about the game?

[Marashu]

Enchant, why not coordinate with KT if you weren't aiming for scum? Or do you think that KT was scum? I think the bigger question for me is why out this way, if you were concerned yesterday?

[Marashu]

Might have been worth coordinating with your RB claim to confirm. I have KT locktown though so I'm not too worried about it.

[Marashu]

But like, you claimed RB earlier. If you had claimed it D3 and coordinated, then revealed D4, then it's not worthless?

[Marashu]

Oh wait I see what you're saying I think

[Marashu]

If KT had said they had tried to make a shot and called you out, then you could clear them.

[Marashu]

Why do you have KT locktown?

Interactions around Drew that didn't feel like distancing, and I think that scum!KT wouldn't holster because right now scum need to get kills as quickly as possible.

[Marashu]

Fun playerlist, I know most people here

"Who we votin'?"

pro'lly Aisa. We were waiting for your slot to check in. Also just noticed that N_M hasn't checked in since daystart.

[Marashu]

Wait what?

I saw that TL got voted D1, didn't see the vote D2. I think the game OP needs updating

D1 TL was voted out. Yume was vig'd N2 by KT. D2 we voted out Dr. Drew, who flipped scum. Herta was vig'd N2. D3 we did no elim. N3 no one died, but was also likely the first time arsonists could douse.

[Marashu]

I mass-RB'd nights 1 and 2. It was a 2-shot ability.

[Marashu]

Pirate win-con is tough for them to win without working with town. Basically, they win if they target at least 1 town and all scum die. They could also win by targeting at least 1 town and at least 1 scum. Right now we're treating them as a factional parity cop; they'll be calling their shots before the night so if they exit with a win, we know who to vote out.

[Marashu]

To scumside, they need to target only scum and no town.

[Marashu]

(when I say target, I mean target with their factional ability, which is a rolecop and vanilliser)

[Marashu]

I really hope this is worth the hype.

[Marashu]

So Kitt can only shot if scum?

Only if scum or some other effect RB's or otherwise prevents the kill (none that have been revealed yet)

[Marashu]

Gimli, sell me on KT over furtive.

[Marashu]

(order might only matter if there are 3 arsonists)

[Marashu]

I have a plan as to what we can do to win this. If there is only one Arson left then we have autowin, but I am a bit nervous that there is more than one. My idea is that we vote in Furt/KT and if game ends great. If we do vote out 1 of the Arson in KT/Furt and the game continues, we have Pirates plunder Aisa. If they leave then we know Aisa is last pirate. If we vote out the town in the two of Furt/KT, we still have Pirates check Aisa so if there is 2 Arsons remaining, we will either have Aisa confirmed as scum or town if the pirates stay. Then we can just vote out the last arson if we mislim'd between Furt/KT. I had to think of a way to make sure we cover for in the event there is 2 Arson remaining.

This sounds good. @Pirates, does the vanillizing happen before or after other checks? (ie does it also act as a RB?)

[Marashu]

I think kokichi was using that word instead of scum. Kokichi also said pirates should check if Aisa is last pirate.

[Marashu]

If pirates stay, clearing Aisa would also clear me. If Pirates leave, then we know probably the whole scumteam going into D5. If we flip scum today, that would also clear whichever of {KT/Furtive} is left behind.
If it's not Aisa and there is a 3rd Arso, it would have to be in {Gimli, Enchant, Kokichi}.
If we guess wrong, going into tomorrow we'd be at 5:1:2 or 4:2:2 with 2 doused. We then get scum the next day and are at 5:2 Victory or 4:1:2 with 3 doused, which is effectively elo because ignite that night, bringing it to 1:1:2. Pirates would be kingmaker if they haven't already left, otherwise 1:1.
If we guess right, going into tomorrow we'd be at 6:2 Victory or 5:1:2 with 2 doused. Guessing wrong would put us at 4:1:2 with 3 doused, which is again ELO.

By ELO if they hadn't found the last scum, I think we'd have 3-4 cleared townies between pirate clears and {KT/Furtive} if we guess that one right. The one risk is pirates lying about their targets.

Does this check out? Am I missing something?

[Marashu]

I find it strange that Gamma would holster as either alignment.

[Marashu]

But by that same logic, same for KT.

[Marashu]

VOTE: Kitty

[Marashu]

UNVOTE: I want to go back and re-read those two slots tonight. No need to rush this.

[Marashu]

why should we plunder out of your guilty

For the same reason we went for No Elim D3. But this is also why I think order matters.

In all honesty, I think Pirates will be winning this game either way.

[Marashu]

If the team is something like Kokichi/Enchant, as an example (completely outside of the POE)

D4 we out {KT/Furtive}, bringing us to 4:2:2. N4 You target Aisa and are still in the game, and we are at 2 doused. D5 we eliminate the other of {KT/Furtive}. We are at 3:2:2. Arsonists ignite. Go into D5 with 1:2:2 with pirates acting as kingmakers.

vs

D4 we out {KT/Furtive}, bringing us to 4:2:2. N4 you target Kokichi. We are at 2 doused, but you exit the game, leaving us at 4:2 with 2 doused. We also know that the other of {KT/Furtive} is town, and that there is scum in {Kokichi, me}. We would have 1 clear ({furtive/KT}), but would need to eliminate correctly or go to 3:2; ignite and game over. Otherwise, we would go to 4:1 with 2 doused and 2 clear. That night would bring us to 3 doused because igniting would just bring the game to 2:1.

vs

D4 we out {KT/Furtive}, bringing us to 4:2:2. N4 you target the other of {KT/Furtive}, and we are at 2 doused. Since you do not leave, we would have 2 clear and would know that Kokichi is lying. We remove Kokichi, bringing us to 4:1:2. That night we are at 3 doused, and let's say you target Aisa. We now have 3 clears because you are still in the game.

Yeah. I see what you mean. As for the alternative, with town!Kokichi

D4 we elim scum. You target the survivor. We are at 5:1:2 with 2 doused but 2 clear.
OR
D4 we elim scum. You target Kokichi (as an example). We are at 5:1:2 with 3 clear or 5:1 and know the final scum.
OR
D4 we elim town. You target kokichi. We are at 4:2:2 but because you're still here we know the other is scum, and we have 2 clear.

If we flip scum you should target someone else; otherwise targeting the survivor really does look like the best play.

PEdit - I see other scenarios so I will read them now

[Marashu]

having caught up, I agree with the plan in 2024

[Marashu]

If scum!KT, scum have a guaranteed kill tonight if we leave him alive. If scum!furtive, we just need to be careful with words going into D5.

VOTE: Kitty

[Marashu]

(I still don't know if your vanillize counts as a roleblock)

[Marashu]

Aisa is easy mislim if she's town. In the event that she's town and one of Enchant or Gimli is the scum then we are in a very bad spot.

and if today an arson dies, they are definitely next in poe to be checked and pirates will target them.

but if we kill KT this day phase and their not the scum, the arson will be definitely between you or furitive. Why would we be targeting aisa then?

Because this covers all scenarios and gives us an extra day in the event Aisa is town. Look at it like this.

Say I am scum with Gimli Enchant or Aisa.

Mislim today.

vote me out tomorrow.

Pirates are in the clear because they leave right away. But town has to figure out last scum in those 3. Say Enchant is the scum in this scenario, town loses 100% since I think everyone townreads him

In my scenario we clear Aisa or scumclaim her. If shes town thats great and we narrow down scum to one of Gimli and Enchant (unlikely but possible) if shes scum, you leave already and win. and we have the 2 scum remaining. This path is way easier for us as town. and I guess slightly less easy for pirates but still you win regardless.

Hold on.

So if you were scum, we mislim today. They target Aisa. Arsonists douse. We'd know Aisa's alignment but not which of you or {KT/Furtive} is scum. If Aisa is town, then Aisa and I are clear, but we have You and {KT/Furtive} as one scum, and Gimli/Enchant as the other. We would still need to sort your pair, and then we're at 3 doused. If we guessed wrong, then even if we resolve the other slot, arsonists ignite and we're at 1:1.

Even if you're town, your plan involves sorting your slot and KT/Furtive's slot, which if we get it wrong, is kaboom.

I'm just worried that your plan would have us sorting one day too late if we get it wrong.

PEdit - yeah, if it's just 1 arso left, then this is moot, but I'd rather be prepared if it is 2 arsonists.

[Marashu]

If it's only 1 arsonist, then we do have time to flip everyone in KT/Furtive/Kokichi. If it's 2, we don't.

[Marashu]

If we get KT wrong:
Targeting Aisa clears Aisa and myself if town and reveals scum in {Aisa, myself} and {Kokichi/Furtive} if the pirates leave. Downside to this, if Aisa is town, we need to guess between Kokichi/Furtive or lose.
Targeting furtive clears Kokichi and myself if furtive is scum (I can't be the same alignment as furtive and furtive can't be the same alignment as KT, therefore I must be the same alignment as KT in this scenario), but we get no more checks. We then need to solve between Aisa/Gimli/Enchant. Downside is the lack of checks; we could afford to get one wrong before we lose.
Targeting furtive clears furtive and myself if furtive is town. We would need to sort Aisa/Gimli/Enchant, but in this scenario we have an extra pirate check.

[Marashu]

If we get KT right, 100% pirates should target Aisa.

[Marashu]

Because I'd be checked by a parity cop. From my pov, Aisa is scum, but mechanically I wouldn't be cleared until Aisa flips.

PEdit - just trying to be thorough.

[Marashu]

Need to step away now though

[Marashu]

Oh, right! I was getting Enchant's ability confused because it's backwards with Kitty. If Kokichi is town then Kokichi should choose death tonight; if it's some sort of vigi action it should go through. Right? Or would it not count because it's not called Vigilante? That's also assuming it is a vigi shot...

[Marashu]

Quasi-multiball. Opening setup post gives an example of 3 True Groupscum, 1 3P, and 9 town. We're in a situation where instead of 1 3P there's a team of 2 benign (can win with town or scum). So we don't know if that means 3 True Groupscum and 8 town or 2 True Groupscum and 9 town.

[Marashu]

Well that's interesting.

VOTE: kokichi

[Marashu]

Can confirm that I didn't get any notice of being pirated.

[Marashu]

I had no idea what my role was gonna do.

Death seem like it could be a vig?

I'm not even sure Death will be a vig. War wasn't what I expected.

I just remind that i am Evil Vig Disabler, uhum.

[Marashu]

do I win regardless? I'm not sure I understand what the message really means

do I win with pirates?

I asked about that D3 (that's the question I was waiting for from the mod before voting). Basically, the message means that it's POSSIBLE to win, not that you will win. For example, if kyoko had sent that message to an arso, but hadn't plundered an arso yet, the arso would still receive the "you can win with this player" message.

Can win with them doesn't mean will win with them.

[Marashu]

I prefer winning. Come on Kirigiri!

There's a critical blunder in your plan - namely getting N_M to not hammer. N_M's been denied long enough this game.

[Marashu]

@N_M Kokichi's at E-1

[Marashu]

Also, if Kokichi's plan was to win with pirates, wouldn't have told pirates to go for Aisa because then town wouldn't be doused and pirates would be out. Maybe one pirate is doused but it's super unlikely that both are. Unless partner is currently voting for Kokichi to throw us off.

[Marashu]

I notice that nobody has claimed Aisa's watcher results...

[Marashu]

Yeah, I think I see the plan. It was always Kokichi/Aisa. Furtive/KT was always a diversion so we wouldn't get there in time. Pirates would exit by targeting Aisa, and town wastes time between fuyu/KT so that even with an Aisa elim, we're too late. So they were trying to win with pirates, but by selling out one of their own.

[Marashu]

I'm glad I decided to inspect Doctor Drew

Play of the game.

GG everyone, well played Arsonists. I continue my trend of just believing everyone's claims (Kokichi had me completely fooled until Kyoko pointed out that it might not be legit). I agree that Hail makes the game less interesting for a role-madness but I also had to play to my wincon, which includes denying antitown the ability to act. If I were scum, I would absolutely be spamming fog! If I were more confident, I was thinking of saying I'd go for rain but submit snow (or vice versa) but I'm not clever enough to fully commit to that kind of play.

[Marashu]

Thank you pirates (this deserves its own post)

[Marashu]

My discard was also pretty good so that likely would have been a point of discussion if not for the meta janitor.

[Marashu]

Ah, I see.

Thanks for modding! I'm considering trying to run this as a large maybe late summer. I think before I roll alignments I might just do what you said and write out the 40+ wincons (especially if some need to be touched up) so I can make all the wincons and losecons (if relevant) public.

[Marashu]

I am disappointed none of you yelled at me

I was just coming to check if you had done it, since it was in the middle of the night for me.

[Marashu]

"And yes, I am going to use this Hood for all my random ramblings."
"Doctor Drew may no longer post here"

^ Is such a funny exchange.