Open 870 | White Flag Mountainous | Postgame

[fireisredsir]

Hmm idk, i feel like your recent page was slightly townie.
One thing though, i think you said you townread me when replacing in but since then you’ve been unsure or something? Can you explain how your read on me has developed from the time you repped in to now?

i thought you seemed pretty towny in your reaction to shirou + your not knowing that there were nightkills + i was sheeping ari's read on you a bit + i thought shirou was scum and didn't think he was scum with you

since then you've felt not very present and like you aren't really engaging or trying to sort people, just showing up for the occasional comment. and that's not really what i

the std kill was what made me start considering that you could be scum, bc he suspected you, and i felt it was slightly odd for him to die over CSF/pina and that there was likely a reason for that

tgp attacking shirou when he attacked you could be a chainsaw but on further consideration i decided it seemed not super likely

basically i just kind of feel my reasons for townreading you were a bit weak and it felt like you could be slipping under the radar here lately

[fireisredsir]

i don't think ive gone beyond scumrange but i don't think im approaching this in the way that i would if i were scum. idk why i would come in pushing tgp when i could have easily diverted conversation elsewhere.

I got the impression that you came in hardpushing shirou tbh but still had TGP in the same tier in your reads list

shrug, tgp wasn't here and i think by the time i was going to talk about him you had already made the points i was gonna make. didn't seem like an important topic bc he seemed likely to be the lim either way

thats kinda my point tho. as town there im gonna be more interested in seeing what else is going on in the game and sorting everyone else and engaging with them. i kept my vote on tgp the entire day from the time i first came in bc i wanted him dead but the thread didn't need me talking about him in order to flip him, and other things caught my attention

as scum im a lot more self conscious about the fact that a scum partner is likely to die and i probably would put more effort into either looking uninformed/unaware by townreading him, or i would commit to the bus and case him and campaign for votes

[fireisredsir]

since then you've felt not very present and like you aren't really engaging or trying to sort people, just showing up for the occasional comment. and that's not really what i

was looking for since my impression of you is that you get townier over time usually

oops didn't finish my thought

[fireisredsir]

Fire do you wanna vote Gimli?

im not in a rush, but yes

i think we should wait for the replacement at least

[fireisredsir]

We already knoe Pina is town tho

i think the slot is town and that is part of why i want to wait for the replacement

we're currently short one town voice and so scum have an outsized influence on the thread

[fireisredsir]

listen it's fun and all to talk about gimli and we can kill gimli if both furtive/fire flips town but both furtive/fire felt like they *knew* TGP was scum

Fire in particular never stopped voting TGP even when StD tried to wagon me, fire just stayed on TGP the entire game while shading other slots like me and Klick

it just doesn't feel natural, it feels like he knew TGP was scum and didn't want to be somewhere else when TGP flipped.

i would never have limmed you over tgp there

i considered voting klick i think

[fireisredsir]

early in the day i also considered voting you but once tgp said he was extremely confident i was scum and then refused to explain why my vote wasn't gonna leave him

even if i wasn't 100% confident on him being scum, which i never am, those posts where he came back to the thread and posted twice with zero substance were inexcusable

[fireisredsir]

idk fresh perspectives are usually useful

[fireisredsir]

i don't think gimli is necessarily crap though easily could be scum imo

it's just like...

fire though...

sitting on TGP and shading others/accusing me of bussing non-stop?

decent odds of red mhm

why is that something i wouldn't do as town?

[fireisredsir]

hi lycanfire

[fireisredsir]

best chances are klick and gimli imo

im feeling less good about toto lately and after a reread i did earlier, maybe a dark horse

shirou is still possible, everything he's done lately is all show and no substance, but part of me kinda buys the temper tantrum throwing

[fireisredsir]

i don't really think it's furtive anymore. probably wouldn't recommend that lim. i think he had similar levels of confusing confidence in house of the dragon

[fireisredsir]

so shirou can check that it out if he actually cares (guaranteed he doesn't)

town shirou from dance game probably would have though so eh maybe he is scum after all

[fireisredsir]

wdym by "is just lol"

[fireisredsir]

Fire I’m sorry if you are town. I’ve been trying to get a read on you today but I already mentioned why I’m not convinced. You have been ‘sorting’ ppl but in a somewhat passive aggressive way. The case for scum!you is you are throwing darts to see what sticks. I guess not following up on gimly is a counterexample to what I just said but I also felt that was somewhat odd. Like not trying to stick your neck too much until you see a wagon building.

I guess also honestly, I don’t want to lose to scum you if tgp fucked up the antinassociatives.

IDK man. If you are town what do you think we should do with you.

how do you think that would benefit me if i were scum? it's very easy to vote for people. im not dumb. it's very obvious that i would get townread more in this situation for being more confident and pushing in a specific direction. it would also be like infinitely more effective at ensuring whoever my partner is doesn't die. like, why would i need to throw darts to see what sticks? i could have just flipped someone by now if i wanted to

the reason im not doing it is because i don't want to end the day yet. i feel like the day so far has been useful for gaining information and i think im in a better and hopefully more accurate place with my reads than i was, like, a day or two ago. there's still threads that i think are unresolved. klick finally started really engaging with things this day phase and i wanted to see where he was going with it next, and he hasn't had a chance to do that yet

we have plenty of time and i think it benefits town not to rush here bc there's still a lot that i think we can learn. i do understand that there is benefit to having wagons and seeing how the game responds to them, and now that the replacement is here im more willing to do that, ill prob vote tomorrow, although i still don't think we should end day soon

i also have been doing a lot more than you have in the last 36 hours or so to push the game towards a more solvable state, and you haven't voted either. so... if you're town, what exactly is your case? you've been very much just sitting in the background here and not pushing any strong beliefs but just waiting things out to see what sticks. so why is that valid reasoning for me being scum?

[fireisredsir]

also if i were just focused on surviving i would have voted gimli lol

but it is somewhat true, i don't really trust y'all to win this if you lim me today honestly, so yes im more survival focused than i often would be in a similar situation

and i think the poe in my eyes is too wide for us to afford a lim on me that imo isn't really justified or necessary

[fireisredsir]

gimli klick shirou

worried about toto moreso now than before

less worried about norwee and furtive

probably the main losing scenario is like if it's shirou/klick and lims are me > furtive > gimli

[fireisredsir]

I still think Toto is town. I get what they meant earlier by you feeling survivalistic - it does feel like you always have a wide PoE. Once you moved furtive up in your readslists, someone else (gimli or toto) gets slotted in a lower tier, even though there are only 2 scum left. Maybe that's just how you play, idk but it does feel survivalistic in one sense of the word

maybe he is yea

reading his entrance to this day i think it looks townier than he has been lately so dunno maybe its just recency bias

and yea i think that is generally how i play. i rarely am confident that i have the whole game solved and i like to play with backup plans in mind for if im wrong

and when things start to feel too easy is usually exactly when I start to try to challenge any assumptions i was making that might have had a weak foundation. because almost always i am missing something and games aren't actually that easy

[fireisredsir]

luckily in this setup its ok to let one maf slip through the cracks as long as you don't let two

so maybe I don't need to be so worried but i am anyway, i think this is probably pretty possible to lose in a lot of worlds and i think it should be solvable

[fireisredsir]

but it is somewhat true, i don't really trust y'all to win this if you lim me today honestly, so yes im more survival focused than i often would be in a similar situation

and i think the poe in my eyes is too wide for us to afford a lim on me that imo isn't really justified or necessary

idk this is maybe an overreaction

i do think that if shirou is scum and you lim me, town loses like 90% of the time

but it's probably only shirou scum worlds that are an issue. if shirou is town then you'll prob hit scum in the consensus poe and be fine

[fireisredsir]

i think there's close to no way fire wouldn't have voted gimli already if he was town, almost everyone other than maybe toto has voted

i'm happy people finally are seeing my issue with him, he's always on the fence, loves to shade but not to stick his neck for it

WHY

this is so dumb lmao

there is literally zero benefit to me not voting there if im scum. you're saying that it positions me better and everything but it positions me worse. how can you possibly think that im that bad at this game that i wouldn't recognize that, it's extremely obvious

you think im scum bc you are incapable of understanding that other people can have a different mindset than you as town. im patient. im not arrogant. i hate forcing things through. i always like to keep talking to people. was it a mistake this time? yea probably, since we might have just won if i voted gimli. but i always want to take more time on things as town

[fireisredsir]

there is exactly one reason i don't vote there as scum and it would be if im partners with gimli but i don't even think you're arguing that? idk maybe you are. i don't understand what you're arguing

[fireisredsir]

its at e-2 rn but sure ill vote

VOTE: gimli

i think klick is more likely still tbh but hopefully it's just both of them

at least i think shirou is probably town now

[fireisredsir]

my heart just really isn't in this vote tbh i hope im wrong though

if he flips town im getting called out for tmi tomorrow it's gonna be great

[fireisredsir]

thanks

[fireisredsir]

you too!!

[fireisredsir]

gg! ty for modding

i think scum legit couldn't keep up with the conversation this day phase and that isolated and revealed them

so i think that talking it out was the correct play. it correctly ruled out half of the poe for me (furtive and shirou)

[fireisredsir]

was fun solving w you that one night furtive!! i think we did a p good job of it

[fireisredsir]

yea furtive was mvp. also turned around a slot that was marked for death multiple times

imagine if we collectively hadn't talked things out and just let shirou powerlim through me and furtive at the start of day here like he was demanding. do we win in that world? probably not!

[fireisredsir]

csf also played really well, like 90% correct in direction pushed and obvtown while doing it

[fireisredsir]

i think the scumsidedness relies on scum being able to take advantage of the added thread control they have through having an extra member. which is easier said than done and kinda depends on the players they have

[fireisredsir]

shirou, nobody is going to have perfect reads, that's impossible. your reads overall were still good. i think the frustrating part of your playstyle is when you have such a need for control over the game that you insist that everyone follow you and that you get what you want, and you block things out that could change your mind

personally it has the opposite effect on me. im a lot more interested in listening to your reads and stuff when you aren't like that, bc i know from dance game that when you're doing that you aren't seeing things clearly. once you ultimatumed on maria i just kinda stopped giving any weight to the things you were saying

i think the same thing happened here too. i think if you were able to turn that down just a little bit then it would make the games a lot more fun for everyone, and also probably would be more successful. ive enjoyed the times when you aren't like that and i respect your play and abilities outside of that aspect