Mini Normal 2288: Reposting Same Picture As Flavor Are Lame

[geraintm]

i've a cop check on andante

she's clear

???!

[geraintm]

312 is a lot, ngl. But, it just seems like you decided 6 posts in that I am scum and then made every post I made thereafter to align with this 6 post read. Nonetheless I will indulge and answer snippets.

- To follow 70, in 106 you quote where Penguin accidentally said your name but then instantly corrected it, I’m starting to get the feeling these posts are “hey I’m here! Look I’m town!”

I van 100% see this being the case, you have my sympathy. Unless you are scum of course
Yeah, exactly what I am doing. I am new, getting a grip of the land but letting townie know I am here and at least trying to participate.

- 107 so you’re quoting Gamma who is quoting Gryff, and you go “I don’t like Gryff’s post” that post was 89, and you quoted penguin’s 100… meaning you were past 89, so now all of a sudden cause someone else brings it up, and you just say you don’t like the post, but you’re not specifying what about it you don’t like, and you also imply Gamma’s post is bad too, like, you’re quoting Gamma/Gryff and just like “This post is really bad, and this one is bad” and they’re so bad cause they “legitimize poor scum hunting” ??? like, why not go “What specifically about Red/Andante make them seem ok to you Gamma?” or something like that? Idk, I don’t like this post

So, because I answer posts out of order it adds to your scum read? Say what? You don't know how I catch up on posts or if I am posting between work, sitting on the toilet or doing a thorough catch up at the end of the day, how is that relevant?

Anyways, I gave my comments on the post. I thought Gryff just saying he thinks x and x are scum without a reason was poor, and then Gamma saying she thinks x and x are okay but not sure of the other two (again without a reason) was just doing the same thing. But Gamma's is worse because she didn't ask for his reasoning on why he thought they were scum but just enabled Gryff (and potentially others) by doing exactly the same thing.

-155 - Gamma seemed opportunistic to me, what more can I say?

Andante

, what are your thoughts on Gamma's reaction to my post? It seemed very over the top and she called me an "outed liar", other players have agreed they don't see her perspective. What are your thoughts?

-175- I would love to know your Gerain read as of this point tbh, cause you’re just “how is gerain difficult to read? They’re talking so we can read that!” ***possible TMI knowing gerain here

Gerain is my number 2 scum read because of post 247

-227: this implies you SR gamma, but like, you haven’t given any reads thus far?

Why does post 228 not count?

-228: So you give a reason for Taly and Herta town, and then you just go “Penguin town, And Andante” like, reasons?

This is the end of your argument right here, in the same post, next to '-107' part of you reason for scumreading me is calling out Gamma and Gryff for not giving reasons. And now you are saying I am scum for not giving reasons? Which one is it, you can't have it both ways. Because on this argument Gamma and Gryff just became scum leaning for you.

[geraintm]

Gerain is my number 2 scum read because of post 247

This js why I feel I can never win day 1, I sit there and ask to be checked, volunteer that people look me over and people interpret that as scummy.

[geraintm]

Argh! Just realised my 2nd previous post I messed up, but I hope you can see what I wrote brickwall.

But you are doing exactly to me what you are complaining is being done to you. You've decided I am scummy fo some reason and all my actions - even ones that to me scream town - you are twisting to be scum

[geraintm]

I'm juggling a lot with

Geraintm

because I do want to push for non-self-specific content but I don't think a vote will accomplish that.

Nope. Go and see my last game to see what will happen

[geraintm]

I've been reading everything. Trying to find something to care about, but there's nothing. I don't have it in me to BS a read on someone off of any of what's being said. And that's exactly what any read I give you would be at this point, pure BS. I have no clue who is scum and D1 could last another 6 years and I still wouldn't find any reason to scum read anyone. The only reason I have a scum read on Andante has been mentioned, and it's there and it's what I'm going with until I have information that tells me something else.

There are literally no questions I could ask or answer that are going to make me town lean or scum lean any of you right now. I've played this game enough to know that I don't have this apparent foresight that so many appear to have D1 to know and solve the game. You know how I solve a game? Information. You know what I have absolutely zero of? Information.

So I'm just going to tell you how I wish this game was played and I look forward to seeing all of you tell me it's the wrong way to play.

First off, D1 should be a quick no elimination. A quick no elimination in D1 does so much for town, in my opinion. First it tells scum nothing, they already have more information than us to start, and the only way we win is to pass the amount of information they have. So give them no extra information D1 to focus a kill and make it completely random so they have to get even more lucky than usual to kill someone important. More times than not, because I would imagine there's going to be more not so useful town powers than useful town powers, town will escape N1 without any awful deaths, allowing their powers to get a night of free actions. That means information!

Also, I would wager quite a bit of money that most D1 eliminations hit a town player. And I'd wager a lot of money that most N1s end with a night kill on a town player. Start D2 with 50% less deaths to town. I mean is it even pro-town to lynch on D1? Knowing that it's practically random at that point?

I dunno, I just wish D1 would be spent entirely making it D2 as fast as possible.

Anyways, I look forward to being scum read for my opinions on how the game should be played. Don't feel bad about it, it always happens when I make this post.

I don't have any reads on anyone else. There will never be a list today. It will all be in the moment. I will look at wagons, and I will question weird votes. I will decide if I believe role claims and results when they're presented.

In fact, just consider this intent to hammer the first E1 I see. Even if it's me.

I like this ^^^^

[Herta]

I wish y'all would play the game you signed up for rather than the game you wish you were playing.

[Klick]

Yeah Gryff reads as hard town to me

Is it really just the lack of fear from getting scumread that supports this?

Yes, though after sleeping on it I think 'hard town' is an exaggeration

[Klick]

Making a more proper response to your recent points Andante
But were people even calling Penguin town? I've read back twice recently and don't remember that being much of a point of discussion but it's entirely possible that I just filtered that info out

I recall saying so earlier and nothing's caused me to doubt that. I'm not following your suspicion there.

I've not stated suspicion of PenguinPower
He's not really done anything to influence my read on him yet

[Klick]

Gamma -
In addition to Brick's take on her, she's barely said anything in the first place. If you're going to be made about me not "giving content" then you can't not say the same about Gamma.

Herta -
Seems to have a history with Gamma and knows their shit on how she plays. Even despite him suggesting to get me out of here, I'm going to say this is town, for the time being. This could be deflection and trying to push it off on Gamma. If Gamma is town, I'm gonna say Herta is scum, and vice versa.

in fact those two reads together don't even make SENSE

if Gamer thinks that one of Herta/Gamma is scum and clears the other, and town reads Herta for now, he necessarily had to think Gamma is scum which isn't the impression i get from his read on her (Gamma) at all.

i believe this was an informed read. decent confidence although i've learned the hard way to never be sure of anything i guess...

This just reads as Gryff making these reads right before writing them
Gryff wrote the Gamma read, moved on to Herta, and then had further thoughts about Gamma while developing the Herta read without going back and changing what he wrote originally about Gamma

and I think that lack of care in detail is more likely to come from town!

[Klick]

dunno who to vote between gamma/gryff

gamma seems the path of less resistance hm?

klick i think you're too early to call gryff the mislim bait for scum just because he sounds scummy, i believe he has decent chances of being actual scum

I'm open to it as a possibility but I think it's wrong atm

[Klick]

happy to yeet kow now

let's go!

Haha I had the opposite reaction
UNVOTE:

[Klick]

I think town is currently dominating the conversation

[Taly]

I don't understand the logic behind no limming D1 but the only time I've seen scum in memory argue for it is later in game or with non-normal mechanics.

Might start a vanity

[PenguinPower]

I've not stated suspicion of PenguinPower
He's not really done anything to influence my read on him yet

By that I specifically mean that by Page 7 I could easily see ar least one of Taly/Penguin/geraintm being scum and feeling like Gryff is a comfortable place to be

[Klick]

That is a list of people who voted Gryff along with a general statement about how juicy a Gryff wagon probably looked to scum
Like if you want to get into the details then yes I think you *being on the Gryff wagon* does make you somewhat more likely to be scum on an individual level
But on a personal/behavioural level you haven't done anything outside of what I'd expect from you as town or scum

[Klick]

[Taly]

*squints at

klick

really hard*

[Taly]

Kow

, let's just say we do no-lim, what is the benefit if you don't give content outside of the

Andante

tunnel?

[Klick]

I can't actually tell whether that's fully sarcastic or carries some actual bewilderment behind it

Either way

*looks at Taly blankly and shrugs*

[PenguinPower]

lmao - so you're saying you calling me potential scum for an action I did is not me doing something that has an influence on your read on me

BUT

that same action makes me more likely to be scum on an individual level (wtf does this even mean) but not on a personal level?

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: klick

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah Gryff reads as hard town to me

Is it really just the lack of fear from getting scumread that supports this?

Gamma

, how do you feel about

Kow

?

i'm def not trying to effort too much here mhm

wanna vibe

do u guys wanna vibe

only if you're town

shirou

sad if not

I don’t really have a hard opinion on Kow rn

[Klick]

lmao - so you're saying you calling me potential scum for an action I did is not me doing something that has an influence on your read on me

BUT

that same action makes me more likely to be scum on an individual level (wtf does this even mean) but not on a personal level?

Yes?

I think being on the Gryff wagon is something that scum, in general, would be likely to do in this position.

Unfortunately, reality doesn't often work according to generalities - which is something that a lot of people on the site often have trouble grasping. General tells hold much more limited weight than people like to think, because everyone thinks differently. I believe that analysing how someone actually behaves as an individual is a much more accurate lens to use for sorting someone's alignment most of the time.

So yes, I think Gryff is a likely place for at least one scum to park their vote, and you're one of the people who parked their vote on Gryff. But it's not something that changes my view of you much in the grand scheme of things.

Even this conversation is a pretty good example of what I'm saying. Generally I find your interpretation of my read on you to be pretty uncharitable in a way that I'm naturally inclined to not trust. But you've reacted this way to my way of thinking about the game at least once before to my memory and been town. You seem to genuinely feel this way about how I play. So even though I think your read on me is shit, I don't think it's scummy on its own.

[Klick]

There's two ways of solving being talked about here and my terms for them might not be the best but the concept shouldn't be that difficult to grasp.

There's general scumhunting, things that are widely-applied tells like OMGUS, Lim All Liars/Lurkers, 'NSG tell', etc and things that apply disregarding individual differences. So 'there's probably scum on the Gryff eagon' would be a general scumhunting statement

and there's behavioural scumhunting, things that take into account the person being read and their personality. A large chunk of this category is 'meta', but assessments of someone as an individual don't have to be limited to gameplay in another Mafia game

My take is that most of general scumhunting is not accurate enough to actually be useful in a game
and behavioural scumhunting is good when used right but most people use it wrong