i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]

[Gimli]

I'll reiterate: potato

anyway I should be gone for today, I don't mean to be pointy

[KittyTacky]

Ranger has felt like quite obvious town and claimed a vig shot last night in the neighbourhood

Speaking of, to the surviving neighborhood members: do you think I should fullclaim here?

Yeah, scum knows your claim, share with the class.

[Summon The Phoenix]

I'll reiterate: potato

anyway I should be gone for today, I don't mean to be pointy

Goodnight sweet prince

-Summon

[Ranger]

Okay, so let's start with Ranger.
This is my top scumread besides N_M and I've literally only been in this game like under a day. Their reads don't track with anything I'm getting from others, these questions they're asking on entry here are.... bad. and the VCA you posted implicates them heavily.

I realize you've not read the neighborhood.

It's advisable to do so.

I believed your slot scum strongly before last night. The outcome of last night made me believe the rest of the neighborhood is town. If MathBlade wasn't the last scum there, the outcome of last night would have been different.

The VCA ignores context as well. I had Enchant as among my strongest scumreads, and Not_Mafia as a strong scumread.

While last night I was afraid Not_Mafia was a jester, whatever happened to kill three mafia has convinced me he's not; he's either town or scum, and scum is the most likely.

Quiet Owl was going to be the elimination yesterday before Not_Mafia pulled the trigger on Lycanfire. Quiet Owl got to L-2 I believe. If you think Not_Mafia is suspect, then the context behind him hammering the towniest slot in the game (Lycanfire was universally townread) and saving the scummiest slot in the game (Quiet Owl was universally scumread) should perhaps make you reconsider the thought of Quiet Owl being town.

MathBlade also started the Lycanfire wagon as a

counter

to the momentum on Quiet Owl. He has

huge

partner equity with Quiet Owl when you observe context.

I realize you lack said context, but I can provide more tomorrow. (Busy tonight.)

[Ranger]

Ranger has felt like quite obvious town and claimed a vig shot last night in the neighbourhood

Speaking of, to the surviving neighborhood members: do you think I should fullclaim here?

Yeah, scum knows your claim, share with the class.

Alright.

CLAIM:

Indecisive Combined Solo Vigilante Duet Doctor
Paraphrased,
I target a player. If nobody else targets the player, I vig them.
If anybody targets the player, I protect them.
I can't target the same player two nights in a row.

I initially used the role defensively.
On N1, I protected Cat Scratch Fever, for being likeminded to me as part of the Frogsterking trio.
On N2, I protected Lycanfire, for their end of day analysis on kitten around.

On N3, I claimed to the neighborhood and directed the role offensively towards HighPrincessErinys. (I wanted to target one of Not_Mafia or Quiet Owl, but given Not_Mafia did the hammer and Quiet Owl was the elimination candidate until Not_Mafia did that, I figured they would be targeted by PR actions.)

Since CSF didn't die N1, we have confirmation CSF was targeted N1.
Since Lycanfire didn't die N2, that means Lycanfire was targeted N2.

Since HighPrincessErinys died N3, that means HighPrincessErinys wasn't targeted N3.

The neighborhood should also know why MathBlade spewed me town there last night. (Check the last two pages and see MathBlade's interactions.)

[imaginality]

Ranger if you only claimed to the neighbourhood N3 then how could you be so sure CSF would be targeted N1? If you were wrong about that you'd've vigged them

[Ranger]

Ranger if you only claimed to the neighbourhood N3 then how could you be so sure CSF would be targeted N1? If you were wrong about that you'd've vigged them

CSF was part of the Frogsterking-CSF-Ranger trio which you know so well.

Frogsterking was eliminated.

I thought the odds quite high CSF would be targeted by scum N1 since CSF was part of the Frogsterking trio and would only be empowered overnight by Frogsterking being quicklimmed.

[Prince of Paterson]

fifth, while reviewing this game, the worst noted that it might make sense to offer an advisory that mass claims may end poorly.

I would like to remind those who may not have seen it, or those who have forgotten, of this note.

I don't know if that only applies to an early mass claim or if it includes ones that may typically happen late in the game.

[Prince of Paterson]

Doubtful that Phoenix, Gimli, or KittyTacky are scum. Titus resolves tonight. The pool here is fairly narrow, in my view.

[Prince of Paterson]

Reread, actually, and not as confident on Gimli. I forgot that I had some issues with the way he progressed on kitten around. He was also very quick to back off Enchant when I mentioned a post of his that I thought could be town-indicative.

[Prince of Paterson]

Spoiler:

oh like I have something in my role that interferers with investigative roles so don't target me with those please

Mcmenno is probably town from this post

think both mcmenno and elements are town for mcmenno's post and then elements' reaction alone. + elements ISO doesn't vibe too strong either way but I think she's been more towny than the other way around

@furtive: I didn't really see it as a miller claim + I do townread miller claims (even though my days of mafia are way behind me now for me to tell you what I generally townread). I think the phrasing is very specific and not particularly likely to be coming from scum, and I think elements' solve of the slot is sharp in a towny way.

Yet, Kitty didn't claim to send meat to Elements. Then me and Elements being swapped makes sense.

VOTE: McMenno

If no one claims to meat Elements, I think we have proof of the bus drive.

why are you voting mcmenno? who else are you scumreading?

or. hear me out, I know this is not too much fun: let's flip NM. it's a dead slot, and all wagons are garbage.

VOTE: mcmenno

Scummiest poster in the game

Hard to argue against a Not_Mafia wagon, but it's a redux of the McMenno wagon. Feels like random guessing

Have you read their posts? I don’t understand how you’re even comparing the two?

McMenno I mean.

I also don't understand the comparison as NM is just giving a bunch of nothing while mcmenno feels like the epitome of UTR scum.

And yes I was townreading him cause of the claim but after going back and forth in so many slots that aren't actually very scummy at all I think this is a fine compromise

IDK how to weigh in on mcmenno other than it needs death and if I had a dayvig I'd kill it

Ranger hard defending mcmenno makes absolutely zero sense to me unless he has information or is powerwolfing

powerwolfing makes sense in this game given how the loudest players are pushing for strange wagons that will probably flip town

I accept these wagons: mcmenno/NM/george bailey? and it feels like it's so damn hard to push for these low hanging fruits because they're being hard protected, which doesn't make sense if they're town.

game looks like all the people posting and trying are town, and if they're not town they're still universally townread and are powerwolfing the game as a result.

with so many towny players, the people not playing the game is where a lot of the scum is, so we should 100% go after UTRs.

town's inability to read and scumhunt got a townie top poster killed on d1. some of these same people are being loud about their other hero reads, and getting sheeped as a result.

not george bailey.

I'm killing mcmenno or NM and if mcmenno is a wolf I'll be highly suspicious of ranger in this game.

I'm not going there as a matter of policy, I'm going there as a matter of gamestate + I find all three of them scummy tbh. enchant does not feel like town at all, mcmenno showing up to go 'omg im not wagonz' is something that deserves a dayvig, and NM started getting a little survivalistic once we tried forming a wagon around him. gun to head they're all scum.

we really don't have to go for mcmenno, I don't think. if KA flips town you can put on my tab

elements is just voting the top wagon while V/LA to help move the game forward. she did unvote and went for mcmenno who you're scumreading.

I don't see how any of those wagons are going to happen today. maybe McMenno but under heavy protest from ranger, at least.

the only thing that just pinged me about lycanfire was their attempt at discrediting biancospino's claim. other than that IDK that I scumread it - pending a reread.

McMenno I can move there and flip it, sure. It's not playing mafia and there's nothing to townread it for, other than ranger squinting her eyes pretty hard to find a reason.

I'll recheck your TR on KA now and see if I agree with parts of it.

Extreme jumps in confidence like this make me nervous. There's not really posts that support the changes in reads. He townreads over the claim, calls the wagon garbage, then later suddenly calls them the scummiest poster in the game and starts solving around them being scum and Ranger defending them. This confidence seems to disappear later, though, and he doesn't push for them at all the next day.

I had similar issues with his progression on kitten around. I'm not willing to call Gimli locktown. That said, I think his claim and play today feels more like it comes from town.

[Gimli]

"sudden change" is two whole real life days. I ISO'd mcmenno and figured they were probably scum. My starting posts were not as good as I was a D2 replacement and didn't remember much of what I read before day started.

As to my KA read, I explained countless times why I was confident she was scum and why we didn't need to flip elsewhere, cause her progression on QA was almost definitely coming from mafia. Those were posts I either didn't read or understood well at first, which is why I couldn't get a proper read on the slot until later that day.

But I'm only defending myself for the sake of it. If the majority wants I'll happily get voted out this gameday, and then I'm removing NM.

[Gimli]

I'm not going there as a matter of policy, I'm going there as a matter of gamestate + I find all three of them scummy tbh. enchant does not feel like town at all, mcmenno showing up to go 'omg im not wagonz' is something that deserves a dayvig, and NM started getting a little survivalistic once we tried forming a wagon around him. gun to head they're all scum.

I should also note that in this post I'm going after three UTR slots that are all scum (unless NM flips something else which I doubt).

[Gimli]

I was the only player being loud about enchant/NM/mcmenno on d2, I think. did I move from KA and QO to these slots? yes I did, but they were mafia so it's okay.

[Gimli]

I'm calling UTR under the radar, not universal townread, and I need to stop using that acronym anyway cause it confuses more than it helps

[Titus]

I'd still like to sleep on this but I think Not Mafia is the play today due to policy.

I'd like any claims of people who visited Ranger's n1 or n2 "targets".

We need to track these guns and kills.

There's probably more mech than that but Mama Bear is tired.

[Titus]

Let's suppose for a moment that every gun was successfully given and hit it's target despite no one claiming guns. We have an extra kill night 1 as no guns were given.

N2 has no extra kill. Scum have a compulsive disloyal doctor. If third party was aiming for scum, but hit the compulsive target, then this explains the missing n2 kill. It also could be 3p bulletproof.

I don't like Ranger claiming a gun here.

There's the ??? mark phase as well.

I think we MUST conclude at least 1 3p maybe 2.

[Titus]

Prince, why are you town, aside from VCA?

[Gimli]

I think trying to understand the mechanics is gonna be more complicated than just flipping all the remaining scum atm. after they're gone we can check out what kill belongs to what power role or player etc until we can finally understand what kills belong to a 3p, if such a 3p exists.

titus, do you think a 23er like this would have 6 nontowns total? being 5 groupscum and one SK neutral, for instance?

[Gimli]

if there's no neutral and it's a 6 player groupscum, then day 3 was all about reaching parity. they had to keep quiet owl alive and fastplayed with NM and mathblade outing themselves to get a kill. Bare in mind that mathblade's lycan vote was the most absurdly insane thing and it was 99% of the time coordinated with NM so they could get lycan killed. my theory is that NM's role would require someone to place a vote, and none of the players voted were good enough kills. lycan was a top townread and math's vote there was meant to activate NM's power.

NM's elimination today is not a matter of policy, unless of course the policy is killing scum

.

[Gimli]

votecount 3.03

slept through my alarms this morning... damn

4 players voting for Quiet Owl (HighPrincessErinys, Gimli, imaginality, furtiveglance)
2 players voting for Ranger (Titus, Lycanfire)

9 players not voting (Quiet Owl, Prince of Paterson, McMenno, Enchant, Not_Mafia, MathBlade, Ranger, KittyTacky, UltimateGamer)

with 15 votes, it takes 8 to eliminate.

mod notes:

This wagon sucks btw. I don’t like it.

note that NM could've killed ranger but didn't.

[Gimli]

that actually makes ranger a likely scum partner for not_mafia, or mafia thought ranger was 3p already and needed her to achieve their wincon

just throwing some ideas out there

[Gimli]

Ranger has felt like quite obvious town and claimed a vig shot last night in the neighbourhood

Speaking of, to the surviving neighborhood members: do you think I should fullclaim here?

Yeah, scum knows your claim, share with the class.

Alright.

CLAIM:

Indecisive Combined Solo Vigilante Duet Doctor
Paraphrased,
I target a player. If nobody else targets the player, I vig them.
If anybody targets the player, I protect them.
I can't target the same player two nights in a row.

I initially used the role defensively.
On N1, I protected Cat Scratch Fever, for being likeminded to me as part of the Frogsterking trio.
On N2, I protected Lycanfire, for their end of day analysis on kitten around.

On N3, I claimed to the neighborhood and directed the role offensively towards HighPrincessErinys. (I wanted to target one of Not_Mafia or Quiet Owl, but given Not_Mafia did the hammer and Quiet Owl was the elimination candidate until Not_Mafia did that, I figured they would be targeted by PR actions.)

Since CSF didn't die N1, we have confirmation CSF was targeted N1.
Since Lycanfire didn't die N2, that means Lycanfire was targeted N2.

Since HighPrincessErinys died N3, that means HighPrincessErinys wasn't targeted N3.

The neighborhood should also know why MathBlade spewed me town there last night. (Check the last two pages and see MathBlade's interactions.)

I don't care about this claim not even a little bit for what it's worth

[Gimli]

2 players voting for Lycanfire (MathBlade, Not_Mafia)
4 players voting for Quiet Owl (HighPrincessErinys, Gimli, imaginality, furtiveglance)
2 players voting for Ranger (Titus, Lycanfire)
1 player voting for Enchant (UltimateGamer)

9 players not voting (Quiet Owl, Prince of Paterson, McMenno, Enchant, Not_Mafia, MathBlade, Ranger, KittyTacky, UltimateGamer)

with 15 votes, it takes 8 to eliminate...

...but the hammer made it 2!

enchant, QO, ranger are the wagons on D3. my theory is that NM had to pick an existing wagon, not vote someone with 0 votes, which is why mathblade went to lycanfire after doing some theatre in the thread.

[Gimli]

A PLAN: we flip NM, titus targets ranger, ranger targets quiet owl. if anyone is alive tomorrow we eliminate them. that might end the game.