HMS Mutiny [Game Over]

[furtiveglance]

4.05

Votecount 4.05

Gimli (2):

BlueBloodedToffee, Malakittens.

Malakittens (2):

Radical Rat, Gimli.

Flea The Magician (1):

Killing Joke.

Elements (1):

Eiralox.

Not Voting (3):

Bellaphant, Flea The Magician, Elements.

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to eliminate someone.

Day 4 ends in (expired on 2023-02-12 15:30:00).

Co-Mod Notes

• Combined Mod ISO

[Gimli]

Ah I missed Elly in the list

Still, that and what Nancy did is all fake solving fmpov

[Gimli]

You aren't actually reading if you think Gimli threw that out to attract my attention onto Malakittens.

neither is doing that. both heads of the hydra are just pretending to solve.

for reference to whoever is a townie: I was trying to argue with rat that a miller MADE SENSE in the setup, and that elly's results would still be 'different' with a miller in the setup. that was so he wouldn't miselim me and it wasn't me shading mala at all.

I've only come to terms with the possibility of mala wolf after the traitor mechanical speculation became clearer to me from rat's posts. of course, mala being shady about the miller thing helped.

[Eiralox]

Gimli, it's real simple here: Elements is scum.

I don't see how anyone can defend their votes, pushes and lack of concern at this point.

You know who else I believe are scum, but that's moot here: If you voted Elements I would have been willing to believe your current theatrical performance, even if only fractionally.

But you're not scumhutning, you're trying to save the mutineers from flipping at all:

EXACTLY what ya'll did to Gamma while I shouted at the top of my head that it's exactly what ya'll doing with Gamma. If KJ is scum, they're scum with Elements. Vote Elements, But KJ ain't, are they?

I've been really pushing you here, because I know ya'll were hoping that Mala would be mis-ellimable, maybe even thinking Mala wans't the one who killed Enchant.

Whatever.

No way we're voting Killing Joke over Elements, who's happy with offing crew left and right without pausing to even comment on why.

I'm starting to sound like the parrot here and think it's best if I step back, merely because at this point I'm wasting time on what I consider to be a shut case.

[Gimli]

But let's do a more consensus scum read first and go from there?

Like, if we elim Gimli and Flea, they flip red and the game isn't over THEN we go for Mala? Doesn't that make more sense?

we can be playing a game with a traitor and three pack wolves left. this can be ELO. flipping me would end the game if that's the case.

[Gimli]

The less amount of information that scum has the better. Can we just move on?

Unless you are telling me that I’m scum and enchant bussed me by fishing for my role.

So, to be 100% clear, all it says is that "you are a miller" with no elaboration on what that means?

Yes

I'll let the asshole thing slide since it was apparently influenced by outside forces, and I think that's mostly reasonable.

But these two posts should not exist in the same universe, EVEN IF we allow the possibility of a Role PM that doesn't explain the role.

The first one implies that information exists, otherwise there'd be nothing to hide from scum, and no reason to ask to move on instead. The answer would be "I already claimed everything" or something along those lines. The latter one claims that there was no such information.

And this isn't an instance of hiding a lack of power as bait either, because "I don't know" is completely neutral and doesn't influence what scum can or can't do with the role.

If she'd said she was only claiming miller to avoid the kill, and said so once the results discrepancy happened, I'd even buy that. But she didn't, and it's too late now that she's reaffirmed the claim multiple times.

EIRA
FLEA
WHOEVER ELSE IS TOWN

PLEASE READ THIS AND UNDERSTAND THE IMPLICATIONS

I have 5 posts left.

[Eiralox]

Ugh. I'm crew again? Gimli, even if both Killing Joke and MalaKittens are scum in this fantasy world you're peddling here, Elements would be their partner and therefore the go-to vote for today.

They're not.

Now I'm stepping away, let other crew members say their say.

[Gimli]

Gimli, it's real simple here: Elements is scum.

I don't see how anyone can defend their votes, pushes and lack of concern at this point.

You know who else I believe are scum, but that's moot here: If you voted Elements I would have been willing to believe your current theatrical performance, even if only fractionally.

But you're not scumhutning, you're trying to save the mutineers from flipping at all:

EXACTLY what ya'll did to Gamma while I shouted at the top of my head that it's exactly what ya'll doing with Gamma. If KJ is scum, they're scum with Elements. Vote Elements, But KJ ain't, are they?

I've been really pushing you here, because I know ya'll were hoping that Mala would be mis-ellimable, maybe even thinking Mala wans't the one who killed Enchant.

Whatever.

No way we're voting Killing Joke over Elements, who's happy with offing crew left and right without pausing to even comment on why.

I'm starting to sound like the parrot here and think it's best if I step back, merely because at this point I'm wasting time on what I consider to be a shut case.

it's possible that elly is scum, but then KJ is a goon. it's hard for me to compromise on elly today when I'm more certain on mala/KJ. but let me entertain this elly's scum world.

she can be lying about her pairings, scum had exactly the kind of cop that would give her the results she needs to make a fake claim. that's granted and I said it first in the thread today. but it's HARD, she has to basically bank on the PR hardclaim on d3 to always be true. but then again, if she is scum she has no choice.

if she is scum and KJ is town, then she is a roleblocker and visited KJ to roleblock them. granted as well.

if she is scum and KJ is scum, she visited KJ to... doctor them? doesn't make much sense. maybe? but idk.

so like. she is hardly ever scum with KJ. and the associations from d1 don't really work if my memory doesn't fail me.

I get that she played a detached and scummy game here.

flea/elly/mala/????? could work

[Eiralox]

Gimli, I'm as tired as you are.

Elements is a mutineer. I have nothing else to say.

[Killing Joke]

VOTE: Gimli

[Bellaphant]

Elly, why did you check mala?

[Gimli]

if mala is a miller who's also a one-shot, but the miller type isn't specified, then her miller doesn't mess with the cop that the wolves had, because she'll return as an officer either way. the 'miller' is an alignment miller if it's not specified. if it's anything else, it's specified. that actually means mala has lied and isn't a miller. she is the traitor. the miller claim was to signal to the wolves. enchant's posts to her were signaling to mala. KJ's gameday is signaling to mala. she is a traitor with a one-shot, she took down enchant.

it's crazy but it's what happened.

[Gimli]

the only time we scored, it was an own goal

and this is my final post <3

[Gimli]

actually I have one more post.

I want you all to pay attention to an important aspect of this game: the first time the word 'traitor' was used.

it was by KJ.

out of nowhere, joker starts traitor hunting RR. I think he wants to know who the traitor is, so he is signaling to the traitor that he is scum by bringing up the traitor ideas, by hunting traitors in the thread with absolutely forced reasoning against RR. I want you all townies to read those passages by KJ yourselves, I don't think I can influence your reads all that much anymore. but please read:

I don't believe this makes sense as a fakeclaim. I already just explained why, and why I changed my mind from my initial reaction.

She is claiming parity cop cause she can back it up cause they obviously have a VT cop

Sure, but Neapolitan already exists and is way more likely to have been floated as a fakeclaim than Vanilla Parity Cop. Outside of setups known to have wackier or more convoluted roles, there's just not usually a reason to even think about things like Vanilla Parity Cops.

Why do I not check something I don't believe?

KJ could be whatever mafia role that isn't giving a vanilla result, and you still get a false positive by targeting someone else cause you're a parity cop. Seriously elly

Thinking on it more, the less I think Mafia Vanilla Parity Cop makes sense. My gut reaction was that it's more useful for scum, and since scum are already inherently nerfed by the delayed kill, scum having decently strong PRs makes sense. My mistake though was that Scum will, at least for a while, have known roles to check against, which kinda negates the whole parity aspect. Why not just give them a straight Neapolitan at that point? And from there why overcomplicate things into a double targeting role you need to carefully keep up with all game? Even if the role is just entirely made up with no basis in reality... Neapolitan is just a better claim. Easier to maintain, easier to understand, easier to not do anything useful with.

So I think I'm back to trusting Elements here.

Scum make terrible fake claims all the time, just like they can push weak arguments (like the one above) if they so choose.

If scum!Elememts claimed Neapolitan they will eventually have to face the "...why are you still alive" question.

I messaged mods last night and received confirmation that this setup *can* contain traitors and Rats is *kind of* reading as Traitor to me this game.

I'll also note that openclaiming miller is a great way to signal that you're a traitor.

[Elements]

VOTE: mala

[Bellaphant]

Elly, why mala pls

@frog, why traitor at all?

[Elements]

Because it was a miller claim I didn't trust
Also partly for Gamma

[Bellaphant]

It felt like you did believe it before?

[Killing Joke]

Oh.

Eiralox is scum.

It's eira/KJ/mala

VOTE: Gimli

Not letting you chain miselims, bye.

~Harley

[Eiralox]

Gimli, re-hashing points I've already introduced into the narrative Day 2-3ish really isn't doing anything for you. Amazing how you're only now talking bout the traitor, now that ya'll so desperate to eke out a mis-elim here.

If there's a traitor here, it's Rad Rat. Their behavior today would affirm it, they know if even one of ya'll go down they're done for as well. If they're the traitor, they're just as cornered as ya'll and hoping desperately than one or more of five fools are gonna do the dumb thing here(If it's 5/4, which I'm more and more prone to believe it is as this circus progresses).

See, problem is, I think crew really have a handle on things here and won't be making the same mistake for the fourth time.

[Killing Joke]

Elly, why mala pls

@frog, why traitor at all?

I know Mala’s meta, this is her townplay like 99.9999%.

And Gimli’s been calling Eira town all game and suddenly we’re buddies with bleeding obvtown!Mala. If Gimli’s a potato with this, than they’re likely having a drought in Idaho. lol

[Eiralox]

Oh.

Eiralox is scum.

It's eira/KJ/mala

VOTE: Gimli

Not letting you chain miselims, bye.

~Harley

I ask again, please vote Elements? They're scum PR. Gimli might just be goon.

[Eiralox]

Or Elements can be goon as well tho.... Hmmm. Gamma hammer might point to it, maybe.

[Eiralox]

Ugh whatever. I'm not hammering or voting Gimli yet. Very tempted. But not yet.

[Radical Rat]

Malakittens has been caught in a lie, and I have yet to see an actual substantive refutation to that.

It is theoretically still possible she's scum with either or both of Elements/Gimli, but Malakittens is the only one who has been blatantly caught lying about her claim.

I get it, she shot Enchant and that makes people want to townread her. But she has been caught actively lying, and not in a way that makes any sense at all for Town to do.

This is the way it must be. Resolve the caught scum first, figure the rest out later.