i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Even now we have a lot of kills unaccounted for. I think there almost has to be a serial killer still alive.

Okay, there is a risky play that might be worth considering if we DO have 2 evils alive.

We could choose to not eliminate, and see if the SK and the Scum shoot each other. It'd be a prisoner dilemma on their parts.

If you genuinely think there MUST be two... it is our only winning play as town.

But it's probably better to assume only one scum.

If KittyTacky retains his double vote tomorrow he can kill me and use his double vote force a no-lim and win the game the following night.

The winning play is to eliminate KittyTacky

Ahh... I didn't consider that. That's actually possible that it's a factional ability of some form if they're the last scum remaining.

Or that Kitty is the Usurper thing in this game and that town and scum both got to send something, so town sent usurper and scum sent our name?

Ah...

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm gonna be honest, Prince.

I really think we have to do KT here.

[Not_Mafia]

Do we know where the double vote ability came from?

0 fucking clue. Not even KT appears to know, by claim.

So it can only come from scum, right? If I were scum why would I give the double vote to someone to the person I'd likely be 1v1ing, even if I couldn't target myself I'd give it to one of the townie players and focus on getting them to vote with me

I agree with you my dude. I think you'd have given it to me and tried to convince me it was KT.

I'm not the one you need to convince here, I suspect.

This was more a universal comment that was springboarding off yours, I'd be curious to hear what Prince and your hydra partner have any real counterpoints to this

[Summon The Phoenix]

Do we know where the double vote ability came from?

0 fucking clue. Not even KT appears to know, by claim.

So it can only come from scum, right? If I were scum why would I give the double vote to someone to the person I'd likely be 1v1ing, even if I couldn't target myself I'd give it to one of the townie players and focus on getting them to vote with me

I agree with you my dude. I think you'd have given it to me and tried to convince me it was KT.

I'm not the one you need to convince here, I suspect.

This was more a universal comment that was springboarding off yours, I'd be curious to hear what Prince and your hydra partner have any real counterpoints to this

Why would you not send it to KT?

Your claim in particular that we would receive the double vote is hard to believe, because I've maintained a scumread on you for days now.

-Summon

[Not_Mafia]

Do we know where the double vote ability came from?

0 fucking clue. Not even KT appears to know, by claim.

So it can only come from scum, right? If I were scum why would I give the double vote to someone to the person I'd likely be 1v1ing, even if I couldn't target myself I'd give it to one of the townie players and focus on getting them to vote with me

I agree with you my dude. I think you'd have given it to me and tried to convince me it was KT.

I'm not the one you need to convince here, I suspect.

This was more a universal comment that was springboarding off yours, I'd be curious to hear what Prince and your hydra partner have any real counterpoints to this

Why would you not send it to KT?

Your claim in particular that we would receive the double vote is hard to believe, because I've maintained a scumread on you for days now.

-Summon

I didn't claim you in particular, I said I wouldn't give it to the player I'd be 1v1ing

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Being honest I really do feel like this is three townies being paranoid and one scum dodging the thread.

[Prince of Paterson]

I hope so. I don't think KittyTacky has really tried to solve in a while now. There's a couple of things I wanted to reread still but maybe it doesn't matter.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I hope so. I don't think KittyTacky has really tried to solve in a while now. There's a couple of things I wanted to reread still but maybe it doesn't matter.

Are you willing to prove me town to make this easier on you?

If you vote KT right now, we will show we're not instantly hammering, and you can feel comfortable we're town.

You've already convinced us you're town, so... I'd like to be able to show you without a doubt we're town so you can really dive into this.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm not looking to end this early, so as the one in this hydra who actually thinks its KT, I assure you I'm going to say "not voting" and just assure you we are town and then we can discuss between NM and KT.

[Summon The Phoenix]

I definitely want KittyTacky to come and post before we decide anything

The thing I keep coming back to is that all of Not_Mafia's arguments can be countered by him just straight-up lying/being scum.

-Summon

[Not_Mafia]

I definitely want KittyTacky to come and post before we decide anything

The thing I keep coming back to is that all of Not_Mafia's arguments can be countered by him just straight-up lying/being scum.

-Summon

What external/independent arguments exist for Kitty being town?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I definitely want KittyTacky to come and post before we decide anything

The thing I keep coming back to is that all of Not_Mafia's arguments can be countered by him just straight-up lying/being scum.

-Summon

Yeah I'm not looking to eliminate KT right now, I'm just saying I want us to be proven town so we can help facilitate this.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh noooo I scared Prince off

[Prince of Paterson]

Don't want to vote yet. There's no deadline. I want to look at a few things from earlier in the game first.

[KittyTacky]

As of so far you have provided no evidence this is remotely possible to have occurred.

Because it isn't.

My partner summon thinks this is too weird for you to be scum.

I don't.

I admit it saddens me but the truth is this. At this point we are confirmed town by your own words. By the very mass claim you just ran, we are confirmed town..

By continuing to push us you act anti townly, in a possible ELO situation.

I see no logical argument why any of this connects to the ??? Phase, but given your behaviour I think you might be the one informed on that phase.

Maybe you aren't. Maybe you can prove me wrong here and flip it and come in here and recognize we are confirmed town and work with us to decide who is evil remaining.

But if you come back in here with the HARD FACTS decided as they are ans continue to throw shade at us about some mystery power that gave you TWO messages (part of why this is suspicious) and can ONLY have come from scum.

I will at this point be forced to believe you are scum at that point.

Like the logic isn't even that hard to follow. No townie alive or dead could have done what you are claiming

So only scum could do this.

So wherher you are town being duped or the scum who made it up, there is only one person who is completely clear of suspicion for doing this, and it's US.

There is no reason for me as scum to come into this day phase, while being the only confident townread of yours, and do this. If I were scum I could have easily gotten an elimination on Not_Mafia or KittyTacky.

I'm also not pushing you. I doubt I would vote for you. I believe I have an obligation to share the message that I received.

The fact that there were two messages (received in the same PM, but clearly marked as separate) is part of what made me doubt that this is just a scum mailman or something messing with me. That would only arrive as one message. This seems to be a clearly defined power where the message comes in two parts. That makes it less easy for me to dismiss it as clearly faked by scum.

I get your obligation if you are actually town, but the fact is you're sitting here in an ELO situation and instead of talking to me about who you think is scum between Kitty and NM you're grilling me on a thing you received as two different messages that no living player as of last night could have done without being scum.

And your argument is that a dead player could have sent it. Well, QO made 0 mention to this ability and probably would have claimed it while they were alive, don't you think? I think that QO as a townie would 100% have claimed it, so when a townie GOT THAT MESSAGE they would know who it was from.

So not QO.

And then Bianco, why didn't they use it in days before this? And if it's just them, why is it two split messages?

Let's say I trust you, because I do or at least I want to believe my read on you was correct. Let's say you're telling the truth, and let's then argue for the sake of argument it isn't NM or KT (even though KT has claimed multitasking and could have theoretically sent 2 different messages with 2 different abilities and still killed so that seems to explain it being 2 messages?)

The only other option would be something related to the ??? phase right? Like 3 scum died out of NOWHERE and no mechanic explains it. Maybe it's a game mechanic then, and in exchange for suddenly being dead on day 4 they get to each send a message to influence the game anonymously.

So they know I see you as town and if they send this to you they can try and make a fake story to tell us both down this river.

One question: how is me claiming multitasking relevant. If I was scum fakeclaiming I'd not claim MT.

[KittyTacky]

Like, I am asking you in a Bastard game, in ELO, to trust your eyes and your reads.

It's one of NM or KT at this point. I want them to cross vote and I want to discuss it with you, because right now I'm leaning KT.

Are you sure you want me to vote NM? If NM is town, mafia could hammer.

[KittyTacky]

At this point Prince, I'm going to ask you to sort of make a call on this.

I know I'm town. Yesterday I generated the plan that put us here with a chance to win, I setup so that Ranger would die, my top scumread. I think Ranger was possibly saveable. I think I could have convinced Gimli and others to eliminate Titus yesterday and argue "We need more bodies alive for tomorrow" and like tried to win today with Ranger if I was scum.

My path to winning as scum is much easier if I play differently than I have. I think I agree with you that you never bother faking those messages coming in today because I had you as town you could have just won by using me to lead you there.

So in my mind... NM appears town with his logic and vote, you're town and I'm town so there's only really one option left.

A player with an unexplained double vote (the third scum gift? 2 messages to you and making KT a double voter?) and who is multitasking fruit vendor which is a suspect claim.

The Usurper phrasing specifically is what made me question things. I don't think you'd be standard mafia. If you're scum then it's third party and your slot needed to kill the mafia godfather and be the last one remaining.

As for the other two, I've read KittyTacky as town by play, but it's believable that he could be a serial killer, since that often allows one to play as uninformed. I think Not_Mafia does have some mafia team equity with his hammer to save Ranger, even if Ranger may have genuinely not wanted him to.

I lean towards KittyTacky as well. I think him falling off in presence as the game has progressed is not a good sign.

I fell off in presence because I was busy IRL. I have a life.

[KittyTacky]

So Kitty has double vote...?

It's not in my role? What the fuck?

Someone doublevoterized me but I didn't get any message? Or is it just a mod error.

I don't think whoever doublevoterized me is town anyhow. I'd think a town doublevoterizer would have given the power to someone who isn't a dumb fuck.

SO probably scum counting on me doing a Kitty moment.

These posts do seem like a genuine reaction to me.

Multitasking what precisely. They are a vendor with a one shot. They can multi task ONCE. Why give them that modifyer?

I can vend a fruit or a vegetable depending on the day evenness BUT in addition to that I can also give out meat at any time, but once. What's why multitasking.

If I was an activated doublevoter I'd have claimed it.

I sent to Titus again like asked but they died.

The only thing that's concerning to me is the lack of any reads in these posts, or even an idea of what KT is thinking.

-Summon

Well I think you're town and so is Paterson. NM is most likely scum. But this game has been very hard for me to read.

[KittyTacky]

I just don't want to vote NM until EOD because it's equivalent to ending the day right then and there and I want discussion.

[KittyTacky]

Actually.

What if NM is some kind of scum special-case inventor that gives out vote-related abilities, and the ability to give himself stuff? He gave himself the hammer and me a double vote, counting on me to mess up.

[KittyTacky]

Not sure why scum KittyTacky claims multitasking when he could just not ever vend meat. Actually, I suppose so that he could claim he vented meat to the kill target if he ever gets tracked or watched.

Why haven't you vended meat, KittyTacky?

I vended meat to Titus D1 but she didn't get it. I don't know what happened.

viewtopic.php?p=13632265&hilit=meat#p13632265

[KittyTacky]

I fullclaimed there.

[KittyTacky]

I will vote NM after people respond to my post.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, I am asking you in a Bastard game, in ELO, to trust your eyes and your reads.

It's one of NM or KT at this point. I want them to cross vote and I want to discuss it with you, because right now I'm leaning KT.

Are you sure you want me to vote NM? If NM is town, mafia could hammer.

I have to trust in Prince being town and myself being town.

If you vote NM right now, I will show you that I will not hammer, you'll see I'm confirmed town, and it really will be that easy.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

For me, it's always going to be one of you or NM today, so I'd rather you vote now earlier than later so I have a chance to discuss with Prince from a position of "hey look I'm town you can stop being paranoid now"