HMS Mutiny [Game Over]

[Aisa]

4.07

Votecount 4.07

Eiralox (3):

Flea The Magician, Elements, Gimli.

Gimli (3):

BlueBloodedToffee, Malakittens, Eiralox.

Malakittens (1):

Radical Rat.

Elements (1):

Killing Joke.

Not Voting (1):

Bellaphant.

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to eliminate someone.

Day 4 ends in (expired on 2023-02-12 15:30:00).

Co-Mod Notes

• Combined Mod ISO
  
• Flea The Magician is V/LA.
  
• Gimli has reached his post limit for today and has 0/10 posts left in his reserve. He can only post naked voted every 12 hours.

[Eiralox]

[Elements]

I think I'm coming back round to KJ being town again

No, I don't think I am

[Flea The Magician]

Bella I still hate, once again seeing nothing but flapping here, honestly. When all I can remember of a slot is behavioural comparisions, kinda gets my back up.

It's blatantly clear that you don't like me here, at all.

Still, in the interest of communication, would you be able to expand on this? On Bellaphant?

I've been heavily reading you as a mutineer for large portions of this voyage. There was a period where you did feel wholesome.

This sort of is me extending a final olive wreath.

If you reject it, whatever.

I'm sorta tired of trying at this point.

You've given me no reason to like you and given nothing but convoluted flow and narrative which had little to no substance as I read it. I am happy to try and talk.

Bella made some krakens damned awful posts and pushes. Opening on Passenger, then being weird around me in response, then being weird around the ActionDan/Deflection issue. There has been repeated and near constant deliberate misinterpretations of posts to the point I am facepalming. Going into mechanical speculation, A deflector/kill redirector/whatever with 2 gated vigs seems obnoxiously strong for a town setup. 3 gated vigs is also disgustingly strong given pretty much every kill is accounted for meaning there is no additional scum kill power.

Even if we entertain the thought that Mala is a traitor/vig - that still stacks even more against mafia in balance imo.

The power balance of this game, the awful cases, the misinterpretation.
I need to go back over the claim if I ever remember to, and re-read that whole sequence.

[Eiralox]

Thank you.

[Radical Rat]

Flea, what do you mean by Bella being weird about ActionDan? Everything that happened around that seemed pretty reasonable?

[Malakittens]

Ngl did elements vote gimli today bc it feels like elly might be doing anything at this rate to save gimli
Aka vote me or eira

[Malakittens]

Gross. Twice
Once as a joke and the second for a claim.

Feels like elements is saving gimlis butt this round

Gonna sleep on this

[Malakittens]

VOTE: Gimli
where/what did you claim?

VOTE: Gimli
Now you do

[Eiralox]

Gimli and Erialox are my bottom SRs because this is borderline openwolfing and the AtE is disturbing.

Rat is town, I'm confident in this. BBT I thought was town anyway, glad for the confirmation. Wish it didn't involve the black spot.

Elements needs mechanically looking at with Mala. Haven't read mala because she's not done anything thats stuck in my memory - that said, the vig shot on a clearly scum enchant is townlock, more to come later.

Flea The Magician, these are your reads.

You are voting me with Elements and Gimli.

Radical Rat, who you say is town, is voting Malakittens, who you townlocked, promising 'more later.'

BBT, who you say you believed is town before their claim, is voting Gimli, who you find scummy along with Eiralox.

'Townlock' Malakittens, also on Gimli!

------------------

I'm not asking a question here, frankly I'm not even all that curious. I'm just laying out this pattern for all to see. I mean it's there, they can see it, but seems I have to do a whole lot more leg work here than Elements wants me to. I'll have to circle-talk crew out of this it seems. Your parroting of 'Mala traitor delayed vig' in a later post RE: Bella is pretty jarring here, ignoring the distinct possibility of Radical Rat or even someone else being a traitor, while still seeming very serious about the possibility that Mala might, suddenly, be on, for killing Enchant........

If you're not a mutineer I'm really not seeing the logic here.

[Bellaphant]

Bella I still hate, once again seeing nothing but flapping here, honestly. When all I can remember of a slot is behavioural comparisions, kinda gets my back up.

It's blatantly clear that you don't like me here, at all.

Still, in the interest of communication, would you be able to expand on this? On Bellaphant?

I've been heavily reading you as a mutineer for large portions of this voyage. There was a period where you did feel wholesome.

This sort of is me extending a final olive wreath.

If you reject it, whatever.

I'm sorta tired of trying at this point.

You've given me no reason to like you and given nothing but convoluted flow and narrative which had little to no substance as I read it. I am happy to try and talk.

Bella made some krakens damned awful posts and pushes. Opening on Passenger, then being weird around me in response, then being weird around the ActionDan/Deflection issue. There has been repeated and near constant deliberate misinterpretations of posts to the point I am facepalming. Going into mechanical speculation, A deflector/kill redirector/whatever with 2 gated vigs seems obnoxiously strong for a town setup. 3 gated vigs is also disgustingly strong given pretty much every kill is accounted for meaning there is no additional scum kill power.

Even if we entertain the thought that Mala is a traitor/vig - that still stacks even more against mafia in balance imo.

The power balance of this game, the awful cases, the misinterpretation.
I need to go back over the claim if I ever remember to, and re-read that whole sequence.

Talk to me about being weird on ad? Again, as I said to gimli, why does scum!Bella claim....anything yesterday and bring the limelight on them?

And 'deliberate' misinterpretation? Coz...this literally only seems to happen with Fae. Everyone else can talk to me normally: I only get into these weird back and forths with Fae.

Eira, bbt: I'd rather vote flea over gimli, but I'm worried it's because gimli occasionally looks 'reasonable'. Come talk to me?

(Also, kj, the quoted should give you very much flashbacks to 'come talk to me, not about ne')

[Flea The Magician]

Flea, what do you mean by Bella being weird about ActionDan? Everything that happened around that seemed pretty reasonable?

I remember it feeling weird. I didn't like the claim and felt it was way too early.
Like i said i need to look at it again and the sequence after

[Flea The Magician]

Gimli and Erialox are my bottom SRs because this is borderline openwolfing and the AtE is disturbing.

Rat is town, I'm confident in this. BBT I thought was town anyway, glad for the confirmation. Wish it didn't involve the black spot.

Elements needs mechanically looking at with Mala. Haven't read mala because she's not done anything thats stuck in my memory - that said, the vig shot on a clearly scum enchant is townlock, more to come later.

Flea The Magician, these are your reads.

You are voting me with Elements and Gimli.

Radical Rat, who you say is town, is voting Malakittens, who you townlocked, promising 'more later.'

BBT, who you say you believed is town before their claim, is voting Gimli, who you find scummy along with Eiralox.

'Townlock' Malakittens, also on Gimli!

------------------

I'm not asking a question here, frankly I'm not even all that curious. I'm just laying out this pattern for all to see. I mean it's there, they can see it, but seems I have to do a whole lot more leg work here than Elements wants me to. I'll have to circle-talk crew out of this it seems. Your parroting of 'Mala traitor delayed vig' in a later post RE: Bella is pretty jarring here, ignoring the distinct possibility of Radical Rat or even someone else being a traitor, while still seeming very serious about the possibility that Mala might, suddenly, be on, for killing Enchant........

If you're not a mutineer I'm really not seeing the logic here.

this is why you are scum.

I dont have a feasible solve, ive said that. Im weighing my options as i go at this point with all the information i have an using the theories of others.
I do not believe by any stretch currently that RR is anything but crew. The Traitor claim towards him from what i rememeber from my skim was basically "no u."
Mala taking the shot at Enchant is something that has been brought up as a serious point. Enchant was deep in his scum meta and was a brillant shot for town to make, bad for scum regardless of his alignment.

More later was delivered. It may not have been much, but it was delivered with my reasoning

I have not townlocked gimli. Both he an ye need a long walk off a short plank. Fact is when you placed your vote there my gut said no. Its not much, its not substantial but at this point I listen to it.

[Eiralox]

Eira, bbt: I'd rather vote flea over gimli, but I'm worried it's because gimli occasionally looks 'reasonable'.

Bellaphant, I've been heavy sus on all three slots since mid Day 3. I was happy to vote between Elements and Gimli, now today, I'm with you: I'm willing to switch to Flea.

I don't think it matter though: I'm sure there's a traitor, I'm sure it's either Rat or Killing Joke, still heavily leaning to the former though I like that they, you know, actually has presence and has recently thrown a good question Flea's way.

So.

Because I believe there's a traitor, it pretty much means that if Gimli was crew here, and you know, we're at 5/4, Gimli or I would already have been hammered and this ship would have been lost.

Mala and Toffee both said they're not voting Elements today, so for actual winning-this-game purposes, I'm camping on Gimli right now. If you can convince Toffee and Gimli, and whoever else is crew(propably Killing Joke but I'm really not liking there silence here, again) to switch to Flea the Magician, I'm at least willing to actually get something done today.

As I told Elements though, really not seeing the motivation for crew! Gimli to have burned out there posts today. They only later latched onto the traitor thing, and this just for the weird push on Mala.

If Gimli, in my honest opinion, was crew and thought there was a chance that we're at 5/4, and they'r ethe wagon, they would have survived smarter. However, Gimli with Mutineer PT would know that they can safely burn out without risk of easy hammer.

I've talked about these three a lot, and I'm kinda where I'm at where I was End Day 3, Start today, on being happy with voting any one of them. I'll expand more, explain myself more, show why they really really seem to be mutineers more, when I get time.

For now, and I haven't mech specced this but I know Elements was real interested in drawing me out on this and Flea earlier did hint at this theme, simply look at Loyal Sailor claims:

Eiralox
Killing Joke
Flea the Magician
Gimli

I trust your claim, Mala's claim, and BBT's claim more than ever. Gimli and Flea's setup spec are just wrong, especially if there a traitor at work: One-shot vig, one-shot delayed vig, basically is just a D1 and D3, or twho-shot vig. Redirect might seem powerful, depending on number of uses it has, but as I said before, passenger and dan are dead. Killing roles aren't always in favor of crew, what with us only having one mutineer flip here and all and being in deep trouble.

So:

Lookout
1 shot vig
1 shot vig
Redirector

[Loyal Sailors]


vs.

[Whatever Elements is]
[Other scum Roles]
[Enchant, basically an Informed Neapolitan]
(Unrelated the first and only game I've ever modded had an informed non-multitasking roleblocker-neapolitan, not sure why I'm sharing that but whatever)

vs.

Possible/Probable traitor, wholly dependent on what scum are INFORMED on.

This seems like a setup that makes sense to me, maybe(looking at this game) slightly scum-sided

scum are INFORMED, so Gimli and Flea(and Elements? can't remember) being salty about game being unbalanced against scum really amsues me, but I don't wanna be mean, I just sort of want to end this.

Maybe later I'm back, maybe not, see if I need to engage in more of this circle talk i'm so hated for.

[Eiralox]

this is why you are scum.

Nah.

Its not much, its not substantial

Yup

but at this point I listen to it.

Ok then

[Flea The Magician]

Bella I still hate, once again seeing nothing but flapping here, honestly. When all I can remember of a slot is behavioural comparisions, kinda gets my back up.

It's blatantly clear that you don't like me here, at all.

Still, in the interest of communication, would you be able to expand on this? On Bellaphant?

I've been heavily reading you as a mutineer for large portions of this voyage. There was a period where you did feel wholesome.

This sort of is me extending a final olive wreath.

If you reject it, whatever.

I'm sorta tired of trying at this point.

You've given me no reason to like you and given nothing but convoluted flow and narrative which had little to no substance as I read it. I am happy to try and talk.

Bella made some krakens damned awful posts and pushes. Opening on Passenger, then being weird around me in response, then being weird around the ActionDan/Deflection issue. There has been repeated and near constant deliberate misinterpretations of posts to the point I am facepalming. Going into mechanical speculation, A deflector/kill redirector/whatever with 2 gated vigs seems obnoxiously strong for a town setup. 3 gated vigs is also disgustingly strong given pretty much every kill is accounted for meaning there is no additional scum kill power.

Even if we entertain the thought that Mala is a traitor/vig - that still stacks even more against mafia in balance imo.

The power balance of this game, the awful cases, the misinterpretation.
I need to go back over the claim if I ever remember to, and re-read that whole sequence.

Talk to me about being weird on ad? Again, as I said to gimli, why does scum!Bella claim....anything yesterday and bring the limelight on them?

And 'deliberate' misinterpretation? Coz...this literally only seems to happen with Fae. Everyone else can talk to me normally: I only get into these weird back and forths with Fae.

Eira, bbt: I'd rather vote flea over gimli, but I'm worried it's because gimli occasionally looks 'reasonable'. Come talk to me?

(Also, kj, the quoted should give you very much flashbacks to 'come talk to me, not about ne')

Its on my todo list. And yes ive said it a lot. Because its happened a lot. Its clear what is said, what is meant, and people are choosing to change the context and even meaning of the words in places.

I've attempted to talk to you so i could sort you. Several times. Instead you gave "flat" answers. You have answers with no thoughts, no definitive beyond a yes or no, i could not have a conversation with you.
Considering I'm autistic that's a challenge at the best of times but your language use was specifically of the shut this down variety.

Again, doesn't make a good case, neither does meta. So i don't push solely on that.

[Flea The Magician]

this is why you are scum.

Nah.

Its not much, its not substantial

Yup

but at this point I listen to it.

Ok then

Eiralox with a perfect example of "This conversation is now over." In text form. Despite wanting to talk to me.

[Flea The Magician]

As well as context shifts and reframing too. Cute.

[Eiralox]

I'm done talking with you. You had your chance to help this crew. Right now you just want me to burn out my posts without doing hard casing: Not gonna happen. The next time you hear me talk it's gonna be factual casing, I'm done with 'No u' and useless banter with folk who never had the interest of this crew at heart.

[Radical Rat]

When should Bella have claimed in your opinion Flea? I know you said you need to reread the situation, but like.

No one comes forward about the spot for a while for... Reasons > People start talking about a follow the spot strategy > ActionDan, a slot no one really townread before this, claims spotted > Bella, knowing she targeted ActionDan, claims to have done so while still keeping in mind the possibility scum did just directly shoot Dan instead.

Making the possibility of Dan being scum known when people start floating the idea of treating him as an IC makes sense for Town with Bella's role to do. Bella's role makes sense to exist as Town, because while it can potentially be significantly powerful if she hits scum with it, it also weakens NKA and the ability to treat a spot claim as IC. The presence of extra killing roles, and the implied existence of a scum roleblocker by BBT's claim, both also potentially counter the bulletproof aspect, so I don't think it sounds all that unreasonable.

[Eiralox]

KILLING JOKE

Harley, Joker, where ya'll at?

What ya'll thinking about what Radical Rat is doing, that is, engaging with Flea the Magician while talking past Bellaphant?

[Bellaphant]

Flea, it just feels like you have 'a problem' with my slot. I don't recognise your version of our interactions at all: I talk to you, you slag me off. Rinse and repeat. Like I said, this isn't happening with anyone else.

No one was tr-ing ad so I used my shot.

Ad, then, to my perspective, lied: he didn't claim black spot. I knew either my redirect had worked and I'd been targeted, or there was town doc/RB/etc
Considering my role basically only works once (why would scum target me again), me claiming was net + for town at this point
Ad spends the day not getting mad at me for targeting him or really seeming interested at all in the mech
I assume the scum team knows, via ad, who I believe is scum, to then know it's me that's done this - they know they shot me! Again, claiming is net +
Ad is just town. The day ends confusingly.

What's scummy about it? The town motivation should be obvious everywhere.

Scummy would have been to act as ic all day, use the town cred to push an elim with only minimal support if my buddies for distancing, and then crash and burn today.

Or, just....say nothing..if I'm scum, I either have a redirect and redirect a vig (which....no one has claimed) or just...killed action Dan and made the whole thing up. For ....reasons.


Do either of these seem likely?

[Elements]

RR, I don't think the Mala wagon is going to happen today.

[Bellaphant]

Elly, yoy also seem to be happy with me being scum. Can you explain yesterday from that pov?

[Elements]

I'll have to look over it again which I don't want to atm