Micro 1069: Korina Runs Another GIM [Finale]

[Radical Rat]

Pirate ship?

I must have been press-ganged I thought this was a Salem-esque small town

Cult claim

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Radical Rat]

Oh shit I didn't check other votes

[Radical Rat]

UNVOTE:

[Radical Rat]

Oh shit I didn't check other votes

i don't trust you

Are there any jester like roles in GI?

Literally everything that can exist is in Grand Idea. And many things that can't.

[Radical Rat]

Everyone should claim whether they're the Townie who likes Pirates of the Caribbean.

If no one is, we're confirmed singleball at least.

[Radical Rat]

In case that post didn't make it obvious, I am not.

[Radical Rat]

I don't see why we wouldn't want an IC. Assuming furtive is true claiming, they're guaranteed to live at least one night, and having ICs around is good for PoE

[Radical Rat]

If they exist and claim now, we get a guaranteed two days of IC.

If they exist and don't claim now, we only have either zero or one day of IC depending on if they get run up or lucky shot by scum.

And if one doesn't exist, then we know we're in single ball with a limited number of potential roles.

I think it's worth it, under these specific circumstances

[Radical Rat]

No, because that says ALL players die, not just scum

[Radical Rat]

Still, that is very good information to have, also it maximizes use out of the IC because of furtive, so.

[Radical Rat]

Fair enough, but I think the associated setup information is good enough that they should claim before the end of the day at least

[Radical Rat]

Actually now that I'm thinking about it we can get the same information from any non-Pirate scumflip. Maybe they should wait until D2.

[Radical Rat]

Carries the caveat in an earlier post of assuming furtive was telling the truth.

But it is the necessity of that assumption, and Meg being right that an IC is more useful once we have reads/flips to apply to analysis that makes me think D2 might just be better.

[Radical Rat]

@Mod

Regarding the Cult clause, would that take priority over the pirate retheme if that were rolled, or would the pirate retheme mean no cult?

[Radical Rat]

It's also possible for pirates to exist normally though. They could probably make a guess based on number though. And if they lied about it, it's a death sentence D4 after we all get the scurvy notification. Though I guess it's also THEORETICALLY possible for both to exist...

[Radical Rat]

I'm pretty comfortable with you, furtive, and bianco all being Town for now.

No one's really done anything that stands out to me as scummy yet, Gamma asking about massclaim doesn't really bother me, though I do disagree with doing one now.

Mildly worried about Aeronaut not showing up yet though

[Radical Rat]

Furtive is just making me laugh. I feel like there's something effortless about being funny that doesn't translate well when people are scum to me

Hmmm
Nah. That’s not satisfactory. I think “scum aren’t funny/don’t get jokes” is kinda discredited as a tell.

No, it's true. Scum can't tell jokes or they die

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Nono

The vibes... They're just not there.

Drew's right that it feels artificial. Like they're posting out of obligation and not genuine takes

[Radical Rat]

It's still not my favorite take. But you did give some thoughts before that I didn't realize were there.

What is your favorite take so far?

[Radical Rat]

Drew locktown

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Nono

The vibes... They're just not there.

Drew's right that it feels artificial. Like they're posting out of obligation and not genuine takes

What does vibes mean? Are you voting because Nono seemed disinterested/uninvested or do you disagree with something they've said. And why is Drew locktown?

Vibes is like. The feeling I get reading their posts. Disinterested isn't quite the phrasing I would use, more like insincere, but it's just a vague sense I get from reading them, not anything in particular I can point to and say "this is scummy," so it's just vibes.

Drew being locktown is mostly a joke because I enjoyed their interaction with Nono, though I do genuinely townread them right now.

[Radical Rat]

I don't know whether it is or isn't. I just know that I don't believe the posts when I read them.

[Radical Rat]

I'm happy with my vote on Dr Drew

I think Meg and Nono are town

I agree on Meg, but what do you see in Nono?

[Radical Rat]

votecount 1.4

Doctor Drew (3, E-2)

- voted by MegAzumarill, Furtiveglance, Nono

Gamma Emerald (2)

- voted by Looker, Doctor Drew

Nono (2)

- voted by biancospino, Radical Rat

MegAzumarill (1)

- voted by Aeronaut

not voting (1): gamma emerald

with

9

alive, it takes

5

to reach majority.

deadline: (expired on 2023-02-24 21:07:00)

mod notes: <3

Multivote was a bluff

[Radical Rat]

Town Compulsive Framer

Each night, you must choose a player to frame. Framed players appear guilty to all investigations on the night that they are framed.

@Mod
Would your interpretation of this role include non-alignment based investigations, such as Tracker/Watcher or Vanilla Cop?

[Radical Rat]

Regardless of the answer to that though, I think you should pick your own target. Obviously you should also announce that target, but I don't trust doing it democratically in Grand Idea, where there's a non-zero chance of a minority Town.

[Radical Rat]

Thank you.

Actually, can you self-target Meg? If so, a Tracker can actually be converted into a proper cop on you (barring any alignment modifying roles before the framerate).

[Radical Rat]

If that's a true claim Drew, you shouldn't have claimed until after you already did it...

[Radical Rat]

Thank you.

Actually, can you self-target Meg? If so, a Tracker can actually be converted into a proper cop on you (barring any alignment modifying roles before the framerate).

lmao framerate

Didn't even notice autocorrect kicked in, whoops

[Radical Rat]

At this point, yes, Drew needs to fullclaim.

Claiming to be an investigative that pierces framing is all the information scum needs to know to target you, so no point hiding now.

[Radical Rat]

At this point, yes, Drew needs to fullclaim.

Claiming to be an investigative that pierces framing is all the information scum needs to know to target you, so no point hiding now.

[Radical Rat]

Now THAT'S spicy. But yeah, you shouldn't have claimed at all. Odds are you just get shot now, but you can still confirm furtive's role kinda, since even if you die someone gets a lonely neighborhood.

[Radical Rat]

I'd say so. Not getting results or kills is kinda eh, but we can verify it goes through because of Drew, and that makes it a half clear on you.

[Radical Rat]

I'd say so. Not getting results or kills is kinda eh, but we can verify it goes through because of Drew, and that makes it a half clear on you.

Re: furtive blocking tonight

[Radical Rat]

Now THAT'S spicy. But yeah, you shouldn't have claimed at all. Odds are you just get shot now, but you can still confirm furtive's role kinda, since even if you die someone gets a lonely neighborhood.

How does that confirm Furtive?

Simple. If your action is allowed to go through, someone gets a PT. If your target isn't aligned with furtive, they have no reason not to claim this. So if you don't die, and no one has a PT... furtive's claim is most likely true

[Radical Rat]

It notably does not confirm him to be 100% Town, but it does sway the odds in favor of that

[Radical Rat]

Random Alignment Random Modifier Random Role

Roll a single 2d10 for this player.

Alignment: First Die

1. Cult
2. Survivor
3. Mafia
4. Town
5. Werewolf
6. Town
7. Mafia
8. Serial Killer
9. Alien
10. Mod Choice

Modifier: Second Die

1. Loyal
2. Weak
3. 2-Shot Ninja
4. 2-Shot Strongman
5. Ascetic
6. 2-Shot Bulletproof
7. Weak
8. Loud
9. Neighbor
10. Reflexive

Role (Sum/Total)

2. Jailkeeper
3. Apple Vendor
4. Bus Driver
5. Doctor
6. Insane Cop
7. CPR Doctor
8. Naive Cop
9. Neighborizer
10. Tracker
11. Sane Cop
12. Jailkeeper
13. Grape Vendor
14. Paranoid Cop
15. 1-Shot Neighborizer
16. Tree Stump
17. Vigilante
18. Bus Driver
19. Bus Driver
20. Rolestopper

Actually hold up. I think Drew scumclaimed.

This was the only single role I could find capable of generating Drew's claim, and I think you'll find things don't quite.....

add up

[Radical Rat]

To clarify:

Drew's claim of 1-shot neighborizer demands a total of 15 from 2d10, which can only be achieved with either 7 and 8, or 10 and 5, neither of which can create a Town Weak role.

[Radical Rat]

To clarify:

Drew's claim of 1-shot neighborizer demands a total of 15 from 2d10, which can only be achieved with either 7 and 8, or 10 and 5, neither of which can create a Town Weak role.

Have you been through the entire 500-page thread?

I am trusting the site's search function to work correctly, but I did look for any roles containing "weak" and "neighborizer" first. That was the only one with a 1-shot.

Since my initial post, I have also looked for "weak" in isolation, to determine if it was possible the modifier was added pre-game. Surprisingly, the only one I could find was a role that added modifiers to EVERYONE, and I do not have a modifier, so that couldn't have happened.

I cannot explain why Drew chose to claim something verifiably false, but I also cannot deny that it has happened. I invite others to retrace my steps if you doubt me.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[Radical Rat]

I believe that's E-1

[Radical Rat]

If you're softing Jester, I'm happy to help tbh. It's confirmed not to end the game, and Jesters are a liability to keep around.

[Radical Rat]

... Okay, I can buy that for now.

UNVOTE:

[Radical Rat]

In hindsight, you did the right thing trying to hide it. Sorry I made you claim all the way, I just see a liar and think scum.

When I realized your claim was impossible, I had assumed you misunderstood how the randomization worked, because I only skimmed it at first and didn't notice the ability was a sum until I was about to post verifying your claim was possible. Figured you were scum making the same oversight.

[Radical Rat]

I will say I am a bit suss on Rat. I get being weary of my claim, especially since I was being purposely vague(and frankly not 100% truthful).....but they caved very easily from just a little bit of pushback from me, and kinda Furtive.

I backed down after little pushback because it is going to be very obvious whether you lied or not later, and before this debacle I was already townreading you. If it turns out you're actually not a neighborizer at all, or you get caught visiting scum, I WILL be lockvoting you until you die.

[Radical Rat]

Not opposed to Looker, as long as we sort Meg out first.

I nominate Drew for framing, since he confirms himself anyway.

[Radical Rat]

I think furtive should block tonight.

No guarantee he lives to do so otherwise, and all the planning around framing/neighboring is just on the off chance he's lying, otherwise it applies to tomorrow instead since there shouldn't be much of a change.

[Radical Rat]

welcome to the aether

will perform a catch up shortly

Welcome aboard, are you scum?

[Radical Rat]

What does CL mean here?

[Radical Rat]

I still don't think eliminating Drew's the play today.

Even if he's cult, he can be scum's problem for now.

[Radical Rat]

No, but a growing faction of "Town" who are immune to doubting each other is a pretty big threat to scum's day plans.

[Radical Rat]

I strongly disagree that cult isn't a threat to scum, from their perspective a cult leader might as well be a masonizer, but regardless of that...

It is true that we lose a lot of utility from the weak mod by having it claimed. Assuming everything is true, we don't have a good way of knowing whether Drew was killed by scum or by weakness, so it isn't great for checking alignment. However, unless Drew is presently aligned with furtive, we don't really lose anything by giving it a try. If Drew's action goes through, cult or Town, it disproves furtive's claim. And if it doesn't go through, we're in the same situation as now except furtive's role is confirmed and we'll have a flip from a different elimination to reference against.

[Radical Rat]

Well, we don't know if any other feedback roles exist yet, so I figured we work with what we have.

I didn't consider scum having strongman/ascetic, though I don't think that necessarily changes things? If they do, furtive blocking is probably worse for Town, but we probably won't be able to know that until it happens. And while Drew could absolutely be cult, I do think the way the claim happened and the specific way he lied around it look genuine. In particular, the weak aspect is something I wouldn't expect to be fake, since it's painting a giant target on them for nightkills, and if it goes too long without triggering will start looking suspicious as well.

As far as alternatives, I'd probably be happy with either Looker or Nono. MAYBE Lich, because Gamma was being strange, but I do like Lich's posting since replacement.

[Radical Rat]

If we're gonna be dayvigging someone, I'd like it to be Looker.

[Radical Rat]

Potential associative with soft defenses on Nono, looked kinda like it was trying to set up Gamma, then turning on Drew for not helping with Gamma.

[Radical Rat]

Potential associative with soft defenses on Nono, looked kinda like it was trying to set up Gamma, then turning on Drew for not helping with Gamma.

This is incredibly unconvincing

I don't have "convincing" cases on anybody. It's day one, until people start flipping and night results start happening, that's how it is.

[Radical Rat]

If I had the dayvig personally, I just would have held onto it. But if we're shooting, Looker's my preference.

[Radical Rat]

Seems like the kinda thing Looker ought to have claimed once a dayvig was threatened...

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Looker

[Radical Rat]

So now I'm confused.
Lich was killed, could have been a strongman/ascetic, but then Drew's action ALSO went through, which means there just wasn't a global roleblock. But then on top of that, Lich, now known to be Town, chose to bus drive Meg and Aero, despite Drew announcing an attempt to target Meg???

I guess it's possible Lich just didn't think the action would go through so they didn't put much thought into the target, but then why target at all? So is Drew just a lying cult leader? Why not just recruit Meg though, especially without knowing a bus driver existed to blame this on?

[Radical Rat]

I think we have to do either Drew or furtive.

If Drew's recruit is also a vanillizer, then it might make sense that he'd choose not to recruit a compulsive negative utility role, and Lich's flip is a convenient cover. But flipping Drew will 100% confirm Aero one way or another.

Then furtive apparently lied about his role, for... reasons???? I don't know. It doesn't really make sense

[Radical Rat]

Cant be 2 groupscum because game couldve already been over

How?

6 Town v 2 Group v 1 SK

If we hit two Town, and there were two Town kills, worst case scenario, we'd be at 3v2v1, which doesn't end the game.

If we hit both groupscum, SK kills Town, and it's 5v1, which doesn't end the game.

If we hit one groupscum, one SK, groupscum skills Town, and it's 5v1 again.

If we had shot Looker, but turned around and eliminated someone else who was groupscum, SK can kill the remaining groupscum, but can't be killed back because the bulletproof was two shot. So it's be 6v1, which doesn't end the game.

What am I missing?

[Radical Rat]

6:2:1 in particular is impossible; D1 we kill 1 scum and the sk, and it's 6:1:0; N1 the scum shoots themselves via the Bus Driver

Would that work? I don't think I've seen that happen before, Wiki doesn't specify, but it feels very unintuitive that someone driven to another location would accidentally kill themselves.

@Mod

[Radical Rat]

If i am mafia, and i am driven with Player B, anything that happens to player b instead happens to me and vice versa.

If I try to kill player B, then that gets redirected to me and I'd die.

Right, like. I understand that in theory, and probably wouldn't question it with a more abstract role, just seems really weird with bus driving flavor attached. You're probably right though

[Radical Rat]

I'm okay with furtive dying. I doubly don't believe the claim that he forgot his action, because while I normally try to avoid making meta arguments... we did JUST get out of a game together (Newbie 2110) where the scumteam forgot to send in any actions. You'd think after witnessing something like that, you'd be more careful.

So he's either Jester, or someone who wants us to think he's Jester.

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Radical Rat]

That's E-1

[Radical Rat]

Sometimes scum do just... not try and hope someone makes that exact argument. Shit happens.

[Radical Rat]

I think this was the plan from the beginning. Claim an easily falsifiable role that doesn't make sense to do as scum, falsify that claim, then bank on no one believing scum would do that, and now getting caught lying has actually "confirmed" him.

[Radical Rat]

I've been considering all our options here, and I think it may be best to no lim actually.

IF furtive is somehow telling the truth, he (probably) prevents the kill, and prevents the recruit if Drew is cult.

If furtive is lying again, Drew catches that, and if he's Town, we're in a really good position going forward.

If furtive is lying, and Drew is cult, it's the worst possible outcome for us, but Drew should be a high priority kill target either way, since if Drew is cult, scum can't have the numbers needed to stop them.

If we are going to do an elimination, I'd rather it be furtive, because scum don't really have an option but to kill Drew anyway, but I think a no lim is overall optimal here.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: No Elimination

[Radical Rat]

Yeah, I'm... not okay with this many stacked lies. I believed the one-shot thing was a lie told to prevent you from being killed, since scum would think you were all used up.

But if you lied about not being one-shot, and then ALSO lied about the thing that made your role even capable of confirming anyone, which WAS your initial claim before you said specific role...

Any objections to me hammering?

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[Radical Rat]

This is GG btw. >:3c

[Radical Rat]

This is GG btw. >:3c

Really? How?

That's a fun surprise for later

[Radical Rat]

I'm not actually 100% sure whether the game ends now or if night still needs to happen

[Radical Rat]

This is GG btw. >:3c

Really? How?

That's a fun surprise for later

Oh so you are 3p as well haha.

You were right about the 3!

[Radical Rat]

Everyone who hasn't already should go join Weird Dreams now

[Radical Rat]

bals

5 scum in 9 D;

I dropped the ball there, my bad

I was ascetic anyway, so the outcome wouldn't have been much different

[Radical Rat]

Though also... Wouldn't dayvigging Drew and eliminating Looker have ended the game N1 after I shot?

[Radical Rat]

Ha, I was almost certain Meg was scum as well.....Aeros reaction to being culted told me they were scum as well.

Funny TL bussed scum for scum lol.

Ok, I didn't read this, so Aero was actually culted. I though groupscum couldn't be :shrug:

It was a weird variant that neighborizes first and cults later. You can go check the Grand Idea thread for details

[Radical Rat]

I would have needed to be dead by N1 for Town to have had a real chance. Meg and Aero would have died with me, and then Town has majority and can maybe make something happen.

[Radical Rat]

Minority Town setups are rough

[Radical Rat]

No redactions on my end

[Radical Rat]

I would like the rest of the PTs please