Micro 1073: Purgatory - Game Over!

[Oclaxian Empire]

{Oclax, Vander}
{Vox}
{Blood, Bella, Aisu} - nulls
{Arko}
{Ranger}

Tiered readlist

[Oclaxian Empire]

I’ll try to do a re-read while V/LA but no promises of such a thing will happen. Mostly want to sort Blood today.

[Arko]

Morning...
Yeah either the mixture I'm not feeling this game from a scumhunting perspective (3v5 is a bitch. I don't know whether I'm seeing a wagon full of scum or I'm being pocketed completely by scum and I'm probably gonna vote one into heaven) and the low post feeling of the game, or my extreme tiredness and low focus due to lack of sleep. I don't have much thoughts.
But I'm pretty sure on the fact that one of 3 scenarios are what's going on:
Ranger's scum and pocketing me
BB's scum trying to get me sent to hell
Neither are scum, and either ox is scum or somehow all 3 sinners are outside of this 4
However, I doubt the 3rd one is either accurate or gets a full picture, and 1 I'm not feeling (Ranger feels town. Scum!Ranger, may you get a participation award in the act of pocketing if this is what you have done, because you have done it successfully so far)
so like- I don't know what to go, but I'm feeling specifically where I'd like to kill, and that's either BB or someone just resting on the sidelines of this

Also aur- When the hell did I freak over E-2? I said it was bad. that's it. and no, my vote was the one to E-4 or E-3 ox, not E-2. So either your a little chunk of misinformation and actually a lime, or your a forgetful lemon.

Also hello ox, ready to murderise me I assume? Well... I don't know if that's not happening, but I damn hope so.
Anyways, I should actually contribute to something that doesn't murderise me and also something I agree with, so VOTE: Bloodbot

I'm honestly hating trying to find who the scum are, or even find town. With how much members they have comparatively, it's way too easy to mix up an entire faction with the other. Man, I like the setup idea but trying to scumhunt is a different story. Also, maybe doing nothing with my posts is because I don't know fuck all, and can't really find where to go? I feel like I'm either being pocketed by scum, or murderised by scum.

[Ranger]

The first thing you mentioned about your Arko read, you said it was from vibes, and Arko has always remained your top town read. Was there anything beyond "vibes" that made you initially have him as your top town read?

Perhaps reading my posts would reveal the answer to beyond vibes.

But let me ask you this.

This game has nine pages.

This game has been going on for four real life days.

Why

wouldn't

'vibes' be enough to top the townread charts?

It's earlygame.

Reads are going to be weak early.

Vibes are the strongest reason possible to have early.

The burden of proof is on the person making a claim, we think you're claiming that Arko is town without giving enough proof.

Then you've not been reading my posts in good faith. I've given plenty of proof. 119, "Arko isn't scum with Oclaxian Empire because OE's 74 means they're never scum with Arko".
149, vibing hard.
176, I stated I could be convinced about Arko.
177, I specified I felt the Arko-OE back and forth looked good for Arko, increasing my townread there.
That same post additionally contains me laying out why I have that townread.
183, I lay out how I feel Arko's thought process indicates a town alignment.
186, I reiterate these reasons.
201 serves as another post reiterating the reasons.
214 contains further elaboration on my Arko townread.

While not stating the read per se, 200 lays out the process of developing my reads.

I've laid out my reasons for believing Arko is town.
I've seen none for Arko being scum, despite repeatedly asking.

The Arko discussion is also largely a distraction.

I don't see people asking about my other reads, for instance.

My townread on Arko is not unique.
The only unique thing about my Arko read is I was asked about it, so after being asked, I explained.

I've also seen people repeatedly dodge my case on Oclaxian Empire. None of the slots to have posted since I gave it have commented on it. (This includes you.)

I feel it is also very telling slots who were previously suspect of each other (BloodB0t literally called Oclaxian Empire scum and wrote a case on them, Vanderscamp literally

agreed with my conclusion

in 89 of OE not being scum with Arko, and they have all banded together onto me, clinging to the same argument.

I've explained how I formed my read, and the strength of it. No, my read is not strong. None of my reads are. Arko is my

strongest

townread; Arko is not a

strong

townread. My townread is explicitly based off of vibing with Arko's tone and mindset, with me believing those are indicative of Arko being town.

[Oclaxian Empire]

Alpha (+Kori, +Drel): That’s why we’re townhunting not scumhunting. I think admittedly you can survive today Arko, but I think come Judgement you get flipped, or you should be flipped Hell 2 in all honesty.

I’m against a Blood flip today fwiw. I think Ranger or yourself are hands down better flips, but even if you don’t want to compromise on Ranger, I think there are better flips than Blood, because Blood flipping doesn’t really tell a whole lot?

You flipping, or Ranger flipping gives a lot more information. Hell, us flipping gives a lot more than Blood IMO, but we’re against us today, like you should be against your flip today.

[Ranger]

I've seen none for Arko being scum, despite repeatedly asking.
The Arko discussion is also largely a distraction.
I don't see people asking about my other reads, for instance.

My townread on Arko is not unique.
The only unique thing about my Arko read is I was asked about it, so after being asked, I explained.

I want to reiterate these two points.

The amount of explanation I've given to my townread on Arko is not unique to Arko. I could give that same level of explanation and breakdown to any of my reads. Nobody has.

People criticize my townread for being 'too strong' on Arko, but their scumreads on Arko are too strong.

[Oclaxian Empire]

Alpha: 8-10 pages is plenty of time to find something other than “vibes” to read someone, fwiw.

[Oclaxian Empire]

Alpha: Not to mention, this games deadlines are 7/2 IIRC. Four IRL days is a lot of time in this game, and I would not say that’s not enough time to come up with something better than vibes. 15 hrs in, vibes is fine. Not 96 hours.

[Arko]

Also- Ranger is out here making a fucking essay with only 10 pages in existence and no flip on why he thinks I'm not scum. I respect it, whatever the intentions.
Anyways, I'm gonna have to go in an hour, so plop down your questions rapid-fire style.
And yeah, your saying he's scum for high townreading me when until BB did anything you all considered me town, and now your putting me at the lowest scum down the pole and an instant kill either Hell 1 or 2?

Also 4 days with this amount of posts is pretty damn low, isn't it?

[Ranger]

Spoiler: my case

"you and arko can't be scum, but even if you flip town, i don't think arko is scum still bc arko's the towniest slot in the game"

This is a very interesting way of wording it.
It's simultaneously stating I'm town (163; "has determined", "won't reevaluate"; those aren't phrases used to describe a scum player, those are phrases describing a town player), while also taking the least-flattering reading of my 149.

I believe Arko-OE have interactions strongly indicating they're not scum-scum. Scum-town's possible. Town-scum's possible. Town-town's possible. Never scum-scum.
Separately, Arko is my strongest townread rn.
Separately, Oclaxian Empire's content has overall been suspect, enough to be a main scum candidate.
Arko isn't town because of OE being scum. The three points had no connection. Stating they did connect is somewhat disingenuous.

i think either ur a partner with arko, or scum trying to pocket arko.

Oh? How interesting you use this as an argument against me!

"you and arko can't be scum, but even if you flip town, i don't think arko is scum still bc arko's the towniest slot in the game"

You seemed quite opposed to this argument when

*I*

was the one you thought was making it against

you

.

You are saying I'm scum regardless of Arko's alignment (partner with Arko = I'm scum, scum trying to pocket Arko = I'm scum),
In the exact same way you

objected

to me saying Arko was town regardless of yours. ("Arko isn't scum with Oclaxian, Arko isn't scum when Oclaxian is town".)

Care to explain the discrepancy?

It's simultaneously stating I'm town (163; "has determined", "won't reevaluate"; those aren't phrases used to describe a scum player, those are phrases describing a town player), while also taking the least-flattering reading of my 149

this does not say ur town. this says ur scum bc you know what my alignment is.

Wording's important.

You didn't say "Ranger

knows

our alignment and has

decided

to not reevaluate".

You said,

it just makes me feel like ranger has very deterministically decided what alignment we are, and what arko is, and not gonna re-evaluate.

"Ranger

decided

our alignment, and

is not

going to reevaluate".

The difference between these is the difference between calling me scum and calling me town.

The former would have been calling me scum. If you stated you thought I KNEW your alignment, you'd be stating by implication I'm scum.

The latter is what you did, and is calling me town. You stated I DECIDED your alignment.

Scum don't decide the alignment of other players. (Town do.)
Scum know the alignment of other players.

Your reference to me

deciding

rather than

knowing

your alignment.

It's not semantics--it's a scumslip.

VOTE: Oclaxian Empire.

184 + 185(backed by 176) are huge.

I believe Oclaxian Empire demonstrated a lack of internal consistency in their thoughts. This is

maybe

explainable depending on the individuals who did the posts and their internal communication system. If they weren't talking to each other and if it was two different people in the system posting, it could come from town. So I'm not saying that alone makes a smoking gun.

The scumslip does though. It was possible Oclaxian Empire was simply stating "Yes, I think you're town, who determined my alignment and won't reevaluate".

Was

, but with Oclaxian Empire having denied this as what they meant, and insisting it meant the opposite, meant any benefit of the doubt was removed.

Oclaxian Empire didn't say I

knew

their alignment, accusing me of being scum.
Oclaxian Empire said I

determined

their alignment, which is a slip of the tongue revealing they know I am town.

Yeah Vander seems pretty towny.

BloodB0t:

Why have you not commented on my Oclaxian Empire read and case?

[Oclaxian Empire]

Also- Ranger is out here making a fucking essay with only 10 pages in existence and no flip on why he thinks I'm not scum. I respect it, whatever the intentions.
Anyways, I'm gonna have to go in an hour, so plop down your questions rapid-fire style.
And yeah, your saying he's scum for high townreading me when until BB did anything you all considered me town, and now your putting me at the lowest scum down the pole and an instant kill either Hell 1 or 2?

Also 4 days with this amount of posts is pretty damn low, isn't it?

We never thought you were town Arko. We thought you were scum the second we started reading. Why wouldn’t we want you dead Hell 1 or Hell 2 as a result? We only want you dead latwr because we think Ranger is scummier than you, and more likely to flip scum.

[Ranger]

I'm honestly hating trying to find who the scum are

Spoiler: my case

"you and arko can't be scum, but even if you flip town, i don't think arko is scum still bc arko's the towniest slot in the game"

This is a very interesting way of wording it.
It's simultaneously stating I'm town (163; "has determined", "won't reevaluate"; those aren't phrases used to describe a scum player, those are phrases describing a town player), while also taking the least-flattering reading of my 149.

I believe Arko-OE have interactions strongly indicating they're not scum-scum. Scum-town's possible. Town-scum's possible. Town-town's possible. Never scum-scum.
Separately, Arko is my strongest townread rn.
Separately, Oclaxian Empire's content has overall been suspect, enough to be a main scum candidate.
Arko isn't town because of OE being scum. The three points had no connection. Stating they did connect is somewhat disingenuous.

i think either ur a partner with arko, or scum trying to pocket arko.

Oh? How interesting you use this as an argument against me!

"you and arko can't be scum, but even if you flip town, i don't think arko is scum still bc arko's the towniest slot in the game"

You seemed quite opposed to this argument when

*I*

was the one you thought was making it against

you

.

You are saying I'm scum regardless of Arko's alignment (partner with Arko = I'm scum, scum trying to pocket Arko = I'm scum),
In the exact same way you

objected

to me saying Arko was town regardless of yours. ("Arko isn't scum with Oclaxian, Arko isn't scum when Oclaxian is town".)

Care to explain the discrepancy?

It's simultaneously stating I'm town (163; "has determined", "won't reevaluate"; those aren't phrases used to describe a scum player, those are phrases describing a town player), while also taking the least-flattering reading of my 149

this does not say ur town. this says ur scum bc you know what my alignment is.

Wording's important.

You didn't say "Ranger

knows

our alignment and has

decided

to not reevaluate".

You said,

it just makes me feel like ranger has very deterministically decided what alignment we are, and what arko is, and not gonna re-evaluate.

"Ranger

decided

our alignment, and

is not

going to reevaluate".

The difference between these is the difference between calling me scum and calling me town.

The former would have been calling me scum. If you stated you thought I KNEW your alignment, you'd be stating by implication I'm scum.

The latter is what you did, and is calling me town. You stated I DECIDED your alignment.

Scum don't decide the alignment of other players. (Town do.)
Scum know the alignment of other players.

Your reference to me

deciding

rather than

knowing

your alignment.

It's not semantics--it's a scumslip.

VOTE: Oclaxian Empire.

184 + 185(backed by 176) are huge.

I believe Oclaxian Empire demonstrated a lack of internal consistency in their thoughts. This is

maybe

explainable depending on the individuals who did the posts and their internal communication system. If they weren't talking to each other and if it was two different people in the system posting, it could come from town. So I'm not saying that alone makes a smoking gun.

The scumslip does though. It was possible Oclaxian Empire was simply stating "Yes, I think you're town, who determined my alignment and won't reevaluate".

Was

, but with Oclaxian Empire having denied this as what they meant, and insisting it meant the opposite, meant any benefit of the doubt was removed.

Oclaxian Empire didn't say I

knew

their alignment, accusing me of being scum.
Oclaxian Empire said I

determined

their alignment, which is a slip of the tongue revealing they know I am town.

Arko:

Have you read my case? If not, then please do and give thoughts on Oclaxian Empire.

[Arko]

Again, think for a second- If 2 sinners go to hell, they lose. 1 goes, and the town gets material to send the next and they are on thin ice.
You'd be seeing a lot more swaying away from the person going to hell if they were a sinner. I'm the only one not wanting to kill ranger, out everybody. and vice versa. But let's see who definitely has been? BB. Not a single bit of discussion on their status. No questions asked. All questions asked to ranger. ox? quick vote frenzy. once stopped, you all decided "Magically" to start going what the fuck why did he unvote? when it was such a quick vote on one person. Either scum voted that because it was town, or they decided to make up a reason to not kill that scum player.

Also yes, just read it. Understand it.

I'm starting to think BB/Ox might be 2 scum, but I do have some doubts. I'm gonna give it a day to pick which one I vote though. UNVOTE:

[Arko]

out of everybody* man tiredness.

[AurorusVox]

Or maybe it's just my disarming charisma, that happens too

I mean it’s disarming for sure lol you make me want to read you as town

But it was more the deflecting of the question that tingled my citric juices. I suppose it depends if you answer it when you get to Serious Posting^TM

———

@ranger/arko that’s not the part I was bothered about. It was the difference between the thoughts on ox being at e-2 in these posts (you didn’t put ox at e-2 but you thought you had):

Ok yeah... 3 Sinners v 5 Saints from my point of view. So I'm literally not able to believe 3 of you. That's not the best. But what pers- I mean system I'm feeling is sinning a little too much? Maybe somethint to do with cults was how they sinned? Dunno, Don't care. VOTE: Empire I personally don't like the posts, and with the 3:5 ratio not including me... I'm honestly sure on killing this unless someone fucks up more, or they get out of it well.

I think that might be E-2 By the way, let them breath for some time before voting them.

…

Morning.
UNVOTE:
Ok... 3 Votes on ox already is way too quick. It took you guys only like 12 hours past my original vote. plus, BB was against ox too so they might of voted/hammered also. That's way too quick for a game with 3 scum vs 6.

———

@ranger yeah the “decide”/“know” thing could be a slip but could it not also be in the context of “you’ve decided … to present ox as a scumread / arko as a townread … as scum”?

[Vanderscamp]

I don't care about this game currently, because Grim had the primary stake in playing the game.

I think you're scum. I don't like any of your posting, and I especially don't like how you're trying to defend Arko.

I think you should always die before ELO, and I think we should always die before ELO.

I don't want you to die before ELO, I think your posts this page have been very towny.

I agree with you about that post of Ranger's being scummy, but for a different reason.

I think if Ranger had a super strong townread on Arko where they townread basically every post Arko has made this game, I think they would open with that and not the associative read of you two not being together.

Kori: I think we as a slot should be killed before ELO, or at least before Judgement Day. The only exception is if you think I obv!town so hard that I can never be scum, and I remain in the game to further narrow down the scumpool, in which case - I could see that, and I would agree with the sentiment, but I still think as a slot, we should be sorted and sent off

before

that point.

Also, is your scumread on Ranger because of the bolded?

(I also have some time before I go V/LA today and tomorrow, so I'm gonna try to make use of that time. I got some notes from Grim on gamestate that I can post later today if anyone wants them.)

I think you're the towniest player in the game so far.

I don't see anything bolded.

[Ranger]

@ranger/arko that’s not the part I was bothered about. It was the difference between the thoughts on ox being at e-2 in these posts (you didn’t put ox at e-2 but you thought you had):

The difference between the thoughts are a difference behind the circumstances. Arko didn't have an issue with a slot being at e-2. Arko had an issue with Oclaxian Empire casting an e-2 vote on them, and inquired on it. Reading the situation in context makes it clear the two aren't comparable.

@ranger yeah the “decide”/“know” thing could be a slip but could it not also be in the context of “you’ve decided … to present ox as a scumread / arko as a townread … as scum”?

That was the purpose behind my 176. I was trying to figure out what Oclaxian Empire meant by the statement.

The entire thing about a scumslip is it being a

slip

. Not intended. Oclaxian Empire backtracked on their wording, after I pointed out the issue with the post. That indicates the slip was real.

[Ranger]

I think you're the towniest player in the game so far.

Vanderscamp:

You continue to not address these.

"you and arko can't be scum, but even if you flip town, i don't think arko is scum still bc arko's the towniest slot in the game"

This is a very interesting way of wording it.
It's simultaneously stating I'm town (163; "has determined", "won't reevaluate"; those aren't phrases used to describe a scum player, those are phrases describing a town player), while also taking the least-flattering reading of my 149.

I believe Arko-OE have interactions strongly indicating they're not scum-scum. Scum-town's possible. Town-scum's possible. Town-town's possible. Never scum-scum.
Separately, Arko is my strongest townread rn.
Separately, Oclaxian Empire's content has overall been suspect, enough to be a main scum candidate.
Arko isn't town because of OE being scum. The three points had no connection. Stating they did connect is somewhat disingenuous.

i think either ur a partner with arko, or scum trying to pocket arko.

Oh? How interesting you use this as an argument against me!

"you and arko can't be scum, but even if you flip town, i don't think arko is scum still bc arko's the towniest slot in the game"

You seemed quite opposed to this argument when

*I*

was the one you thought was making it against

you

.

You are saying I'm scum regardless of Arko's alignment (partner with Arko = I'm scum, scum trying to pocket Arko = I'm scum),
In the exact same way you

objected

to me saying Arko was town regardless of yours. ("Arko isn't scum with Oclaxian, Arko isn't scum when Oclaxian is town".)

Care to explain the discrepancy?

It's simultaneously stating I'm town (163; "has determined", "won't reevaluate"; those aren't phrases used to describe a scum player, those are phrases describing a town player), while also taking the least-flattering reading of my 149

this does not say ur town. this says ur scum bc you know what my alignment is.

Wording's important.

You didn't say "Ranger

knows

our alignment and has

decided

to not reevaluate".

You said,

it just makes me feel like ranger has very deterministically decided what alignment we are, and what arko is, and not gonna re-evaluate.

"Ranger

decided

our alignment, and

is not

going to reevaluate".

The difference between these is the difference between calling me scum and calling me town.

The former would have been calling me scum. If you stated you thought I KNEW your alignment, you'd be stating by implication I'm scum.

The latter is what you did, and is calling me town. You stated I DECIDED your alignment.

Scum don't decide the alignment of other players. (Town do.)
Scum know the alignment of other players.

Your reference to me

deciding

rather than

knowing

your alignment.

It's not semantics--it's a scumslip.

VOTE: Oclaxian Empire.

184 + 185(backed by 176) are huge.

I believe Oclaxian Empire demonstrated a lack of internal consistency in their thoughts. This is

maybe

explainable depending on the individuals who did the posts and their internal communication system. If they weren't talking to each other and if it was two different people in the system posting, it could come from town. So I'm not saying that alone makes a smoking gun.

The scumslip does though. It was possible Oclaxian Empire was simply stating "Yes, I think you're town, who determined my alignment and won't reevaluate".

Was

, but with Oclaxian Empire having denied this as what they meant, and insisting it meant the opposite, meant any benefit of the doubt was removed.

Oclaxian Empire didn't say I

knew

their alignment, accusing me of being scum.
Oclaxian Empire said I

determined

their alignment, which is a slip of the tongue revealing they know I am town.

You've also not addressed 214.

[BloodB0t]

BB's scum trying to get me sent to hell

This is interesting. I don't really have a strong read on you, don't recall saying much about you other than saying I suspected everyone for TRing you early while I was still not getting anything AI from you. I'd say you're very slightly townie atp. I just don't like Ranger's posts about you or Ox.

@ranger Fwiw, I wouldn't mind if "vibes" was the only reason to townread Arko. My question was just open-ended and not meant to imply guilt for having a read only based on vibes, I just wondered if that was the only reason for the initial read. I don't like the reaction to that question though.

BloodB0t: Why have you not commented on my Oclaxian Empire read and case?

Laziness?

[Aisa]

Hello again, I'm here and ready to produce content~
I see your request, Ranger

Morning.
UNVOTE:
Ok... 3 Votes on ox already is way too quick. It took you guys only like 12 hours past my original vote. plus, BB was against ox too so they might of voted/hammered also. That's way too quick for a game with 3 scum vs 6.

Not sure I buy this panic tbh

If scum orchestrated a quick hammer on someone at e-2 are they not just handing us the easy win since we only need to send 2 of them to hell?

Also it’s weird to me that you were focusing on ox making e-2 quickly when you were also at e-2 at the time and in fact still are?

Yes I'm E-2. I can't change that. It's bad. However, I could change ox being E-2. So I did. Found it too early when we have so much time left. If they end up acting scummier

or they are on track to death

, yes, I may revote them.

What do you mean by the bolded?

Arko, there still is a lonely question seeking answer over here

[AurorusVox]

@ranger/arko that’s not the part I was bothered about. It was the difference between the thoughts on ox being at e-2 in these posts (you didn’t put ox at e-2 but you thought you had):

The difference between the thoughts are a difference behind the circumstances. Arko didn't have an issue with a slot being at e-2. Arko had an issue with Oclaxian Empire casting an e-2 vote on them, and inquired on it. Reading the situation in context makes it clear the two aren't comparable.

All the things I quoted are about the e-2 on ox

[BloodB0t]

I feel it is also very telling slots who were previously suspect of each other (BloodB0t literally called Oclaxian Empire scum and wrote a case on them, Vanderscamp literally agreed with my conclusion in 89 of OE not being scum with Arko, and they have all banded together onto me, clinging to the same argument.

Reads can change. Especially from people who have limited information.

[BloodB0t]

Ranger wrote: ↑59 minutes ago

BloodB0t: Why have you not commented on my Oclaxian Empire read and case?
Laziness?

Plus, you didn't ask for my comments on it, or did you? In any case, I tend to space out while reading huge walls of text so I might have missed it.

Ranger wrote: ↑Today, 3:53 pm

I believe that being the last post before going to bed shows an insanely +town mindset


Can you elaborate on this?

[Ranger]

@ranger Fwiw, I wouldn't mind if "vibes" was the only reason to townread Arko. My question was just open-ended and not meant to imply guilt for having a read only based on vibes, I just wondered if that was the only reason for the initial read. I don't like the reaction to that question though.

Vibes were indeed my initial reason for the townread on Arko and remain among the stronger reasons.

Arko's interactions with Oclaxian Empire (and vice-versa) demonstrate the two are never scum together and I believe Oclaxian Empire is scum which by proxy would be reason for Arko to be town.
Even without that, Arko's handling of OE felt +town regardless of Ox's alignment.

Arko's content has seemed +town in a solvey way that stacks over time.

Most posts give good vibes. Not every post, but enough.
Good vibes stacked on good vibes strengthen the read because each post I vibe with, adds to the existing good vibes.
The lack of a real scum case despite players scumreading the slot is also a red flag.

Are any of these slam-dunk?

Well no.

Which is why I've asked for the reasons Arko wouldn't be town--and have been met with radio silence by and large.

I just don't like Ranger's posts about you or Ox.

And what issues do you take with those takes specifically?

[Ranger]

All the things I quoted are about the e-2 on ox

I'm afraid I don't follow.

Arko was put to e-2 by Oclaxian Empire.
Arko inquired Ox on that vote in a way demonstrating no alarm at e-2, but rather curiosity as to why OE would cast the e-2 vote.
Arko thought Oc's answers weren't great.
Arko thought they casted an e-2 vote, but in the process explained why they were okay with having cast that vote.

I don't see how you see anything suspect in that process. It has no inconsistencies. It has no contradictions. One action directly followed into another. I don't understand what your point is.