Mini 2293: Death Note. Postgame!

[Black]

Do you still think StD is lying? Or do you think he is Gimli's follower?

Well... which is it?

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Anyway, I was expecting a follower to claim follower/Kira today and cause chaos and make us overthink stuff.

You think that's STD's claim?

I'm not sure if he's Kira who folded under pressure or follower trying to make us overthink

There's literally no reason for a follower to claim there though. You really buy StD's "boring" reason? Instead of just getting limmed and winning he wants us to search for Kira? Really?

[Black]

This was Kira claiming follower though. Bet you didn't expect that!

Lets think this through. Why would Kira claim follower with 2 votes on him? Especially which how much this group goes in circles for 50 pages. Unless this is just something StD does normally, then he could very well be Kira.

Kira claims follower to make townies doubt putting their vote on him. You are my prime example

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You could still be a follower ig, but I think it's HPE

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Read what you said, isn't this basically what's happening though? He's going to be limmed. If he really is follower then he gets what he wants.

Not if more people like you overthink this...

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I just don't want to have spent a 70 page day 1 for us to lose to a follower trolling is all

The follower could have won anyways if he didn't claim follower

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Ok, then you should go through and see who StD's Kira might be if you believe him. I don't believe him, so I'm chilling

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This group takes 70 pages and votes everyone. It's possible this was his plan right away to do something to stop us from doing that before we actually vote kira.

Look at where he claimed. Right after Gimli and I cased him. lol. It's OBVIOUS what he was trying to stop us from doing

[Black]

StD claimed follower and tried to clear himself with his ability right after Gimli and I made valid associative arguments tying him to a confirmed follower. And his reason was "this is boring"

This was a blatant deflect attempt and it's working

[Black]

We can just vote StD anyway. I just wanted to make you think

I've thought about the possibility of him telling the truth and I've already said I'm willing to take that risk. I'm willing to lose that way. I'm not spending 4 more days picking through the thread trying to see who StD's Kira might be when it's probably just him anyway

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[Black]

I've found Kira. If you don't believe me then you can present me your cases

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Gut feeling says Gimli, but I agree that I don't want to spend 60 pages figuring it out. So I'm fine with StD

Could you spend a few minutes explaining how StD works as a Gimli follower at least?

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I would go out on a limb and say that StD claiming a follower at the time that he did would be against the rules if he actually was a follower. Maybe someone with more site knowledge can tell me if I'm wrong?

If we assume StD is telling the truth here then the game was steering toward a Kira win after Gimli figured him out and I caught on. Him claiming to get people to unvote him and basically clear himself from the Kira PoE would be actively working against his win condition. What if town then digs through the thread and lims Kira in this scenario? Everyone would just be cool with StD losing the game for Kira because he was bored?

Idk how this all works but this just can't be right

[Black]

Ok I wasn't sure. Ty for the clarifications

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That's what I'm feeling

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HPE sent the message anonymously to try to persuade the town to vote Gimli. Then snapped defended StD the moment someone suspected him

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Btw I poked holes all throughout HPE's case why StD can't be Kira. And also find it weird that HPE thought StD was lying about the follower claim at first?

It's these two. And it has to be StD Kira imo

[Black]

gimli redemption ark imo

Yeah I think you should probably get MVP but I still hate you for pushing my detective to death

[Black]

If you are right here then serious props to you Gimli. I wouldn't have gotten out of my tunnel if you didn't point out that HPE could be a follower

[Black]

Here's the timeline of StD's claim btw. He was under serious pressure here as a Kira suspect. This was his last hail mary.

Kira Fakeclaims Follower

#2014 - I say Gimli could be right about StD and declare my intent to dig through the thread

Spoiler: #2014

I can't believe I'm saying this but I think Gimli could be right here

I still think we take all the time in the world here. Let the inactives chime in and whatnot

I'm going to dig through the thread

#2016 - StD immediately responds and asks me why I think it's him. He doesn't want me to go through the thread

Spoiler: #2016

why do you think it's me, black

#2019 - I tell StD that I just think it could be him and want to look deeper

Spoiler: #2019

why do you think it's me, black

I just think it can be you. I disagree with HPE that you are clear and I want to take a deeper look

#2020 - StD immediately responds and asks if I have any thoughts about the current Gimli/StD conversation. Definitely doesn't want me to go through the thread. Instead he wants me to look at a conversation where he's using a meta argument to towncase himself

Spoiler: #2020

do you have any thoughts about my conversation with gimli right now

#2041 - Kawaii says he will case StD after I asked him to

Spoiler: #2041

*snip*

Kawaii I really like these little breakdowns. Could you do one for StD?

Yes, lemme get to it

#2047 and #2048 - Meg says there is room for StD Kira and puts him in her Kira PoE

Spoiler: #2047, #2048

There's room for it I suppose Kawaii said they'd lay out a case for it no?

Std/Gimli/HPE are the most likely trio fmpov

#2059 - Gimli narrows down his list of Kira candidates and basically reaches the conclusion it's StD

Spoiler: #2059

Spoiler: reading into vanderspew

its a lot of work. but there's some reads we can get out of this to come to a solve:

I thought kokichi might have been scum for the vote on black for the call for skill claims, but his response to me asking about it felt null

I get that sometimes the follower will throw some shade at kira so it won't look obvious, but you'll note how vanderscamp does it unnecessarily throughout the game. he really likes shading kokichi this game and I don't think you wanna go around shading your kira.

more importantly than me being wrong about your behaviour in that game,

So you admit your reasoning was wrong, but you think that I was trying to buddy both of you. I was going to vote StD until he reminded me I did that in Haunted, you were there that game so you should know I tunneled him all day 1 when we were both town. As for you, I don't townread you, I was just seeing if you'd do the same thing you always do.

All pushes on me are towny

Mafia too hard

VOTE: kokichi

You did this when I voted you when we were both town, so I wanted to see if you had the same reaction. Not if I was automatically going to think you were town for it.

If you didn't think he was town, and you phrased it as ""unvote," you did the same thing as town, I wanted to see if you would do the same thing as you did when you were town and you did," why wouldn't you clarify that that's not a town read?
Because it obviously looks like a town read.

this looks too strong to be pushing your kira with

Either way, i think Gimli is just hyper focused on me cause I had him completely fooled last game, or that could be just a facade. Not important right now.

VOTE: Azu

Why is it not important?

these are mean spirited questions, he wants to scumread koki with this

starting to have doubts on kokichi

gimli, why malakittens?

Thoughts on kokichi?

you wouldn't gamethrow by highlighting your kira to people, would you?

Okay it's independent of me. Then okay. And I don't think we're going to vote out Kawaii today anyway, so no point.

I'm actually just going to look through iso's and stop trying to defend myself cause my back and forth with you is distracting me too much.

I am extremely down to daykill Kawaii.

I don't like the fact that Kawaii has never responded to me calling out that post I thought was scummy, or asked me about my vote.

At this point a daykill on Kawaii doesn't feel necessary.

Sinking into background is feeling more and more like a scum thing to this one but even if we condemn them in a day or two it honestly doesn't think it would be worth it especially for the detective reveal. And then there's the aspect of when you wait multiple days, the gamestate and what we know and who's scummiest will change. Condemn now = Total gamble, condemn later = We don't even know if we'd want to at that point.

Thus if you want Kawaii dead NOW, vote them.

Though again this one prefers dragging the game days out for max discussion and analysis.

Besides the bold part. What is this even saying? Seems like you're talking just to talk. The first post that's not about me is like you're trying to sound like you're saying something without saying anything.

I'll retract my scum read on your Kawaii defence then if you hadn't seen this post.

The game will not end if Kawaii is elim'd, I'm pretty sure.

Why?

Because I think he's town

Can you explain why?

Okay it's independent of me. Then okay. And I don't think we're going to vote out Kawaii today anyway, so no point.

I'm actually just going to look through iso's and stop trying to defend myself cause my back and forth with you is distracting me too much.

I am extremely down to daykill Kawaii.

I don't like the fact that Kawaii has never responded to me calling out that post I thought was scummy, or asked me about my vote.

At this point a daykill on Kawaii doesn't feel necessary. Sinking into background is feeling more and more like a scum thing to this one but even if we condemn them in a day or two it honestly doesn't think it would be worth it especially for the detective reveal. And then there's the aspect of when you wait multiple days, the gamestate and what we know and who's scummiest will change. Condemn now = Total gamble, condemn later = We don't even know if we'd want to at that point. Thus if you want Kawaii dead NOW, vote them. Though again this one prefers dragging the game days out for max discussion and analysis.

I am voting them.

I also don't understand this defence, this feels very follower to Kawaii Kira esque.

Why does this feel very follower to me = Kira esque?

Because I don't think HPE's post makes any sense at all, you could basically sub in any name for yours and the post would be exactly the same. The only place HPE talks about you specifically is mentioning that you have been scummy.

this is probably too strong to be a push on kira

I would like some thoughts from players not named Gimli. Do we think this post could come from Kira or nah?

Spoiler: For kira's eyes only

You should definitely swap with me so I can kill people with the death note tonight.
I known it seems silly but consider the following pros and cons.

Pros

- If I am VT, it frames me and you appear innocent.
If I am a Kira follower, I would kill a townie and you would be fine.
If I am a power role, I'm likely killing a townie instead of whatever I'm supposed to be doing.
The frame is permanent.
It would be funny.
Literally noone would believe you actually did this and I would likely be limmed tomorrow for claiming it happened, assuming I am town.

Cons

There is an incredibly low chance you die to your own Death Note, although this would be a funny outcome.
You don't choose who dies n1.


Pros seem to be outweighing the cons here.
And I got my fanciest pen <3

Yes, I think it's the kind of thing Meg could have thought of before seeing their role.

thats potentially good for meg, but its thin.

I see you're keeping up with voting everyone to make yourself seem not sure again.

This reads as fake

again throwing too much shade at kokichi

I was potentially moving to Mala/kokichi/std today until that post, there's just no way

I think koki is spewed not kira here.

I mean if you are are follower you would want to defend gimli, and he would have no way to know it is you?
Are you not defending gimli's case on you?

It's plausible imo, I don't really think it's reality.

I am defending since I feel it's genuinely town, I want to eliminate who I see as town so I can find Kira, I don't see Gimli as Kira, I was down to eliminate Gimli at one point when he was pursuing me but my mind changed as his mind changed on me...
I see why you see why you think I might be Gimli's follower, yeah,
What do you really think is reality? I want to eliminate Kira

To be honest, I'm not sure
It's a tough game
Gut says it's a slot not getting high attention (Std/Mala/Vander/HPE) But I townread most of that list to some degree

Wow, you townread that list?
Because I don't think that's a very towny list of players at all and I'm in it.

So your scum is in Gimli/Kawaii/kokichi/black?

maybe good for meg?

I kind of just want the day to end at this point, I feel like I'm just tunneling my reads harder and harder.

I still think Gimli is a pretty terrible lim, I think the way he's played is the kind of inconsistency that comes more often from passionate town than scum with an agenda.

I still don't think Kawaii is town, but I think other people sound scummy and I'm happy to entertain the possibility that I'm just really tunneled.


I didn't like Mala's reaction to Gimli at all, I feel like when someone calls you out as a TPR people react in several different ways. I think the towny way to react, regardless of whether you'reTPR or not, is to kind of play into it, like giving a wink emoji or joking about your vig target or something.
I think Mala's reaction was pretty scummy, like Mala seemed really annoyed in a really obviously "I'm a TPR" type way. I get that this may seem unhelpful to talk about, but it was imo so blatant that there's no chance anyone missed it, so I'm just going to talk about it. I basically feel like if you are what you're softing it doesn't make sense because you would not want to actually react in that way, and it didn't feel at all like a VT trying to take a bullet, so I think it was just scummy.

I thought STD's reaction to Gimli a few pages ago was pretty good, I got the vibe from it that they actually believed what they were saying and weren't defending themselves just for the sake of defending themselves.

I really, really, really don't like kokichi's continual defence of "I literally can't be Kira" because it relies on the premise that followers would have just hard defended them facing an early D1, and the fact that no one did is clearing.
I don't really think this is something kokichi actually believes so it just reads as false.

Other than that, my non updated reads are that I think black and lorne are town and everyone else is null.

more spewing kokichi as not kira. defense of std seems a bit exaggerated, but i dont think its necessarily +kira for std either. vanderscamp has been hard tring town too.

koki is never kira
hpe looks good cause vander pushed hpe
meg also looks okay
std and lorne feel more likely as the kira to how vander played the game.

#2061 - I make my associative case between Vander and StD

Spoiler: #2061

Is StD Kira?

First I think it will be helpful to look at all interactions and mentions of StD from Vander, a confirmed follower

#236 - the first time Vander acknowledges StD. In this post Vander is asking StD what his thoughts on Kokichi are. This could be follower trying to gauge where his Kira stands on a slot. What I find weird is StD already made it clear how he felt about Kokichi in #191 so why is Vander trying to get more here? For what it's worth, StD doesn't answer this question. Instead he just votes for Kokichi in #282
#378 - Vander agrees with StD here about Kokichi probably not being Kira. Not much to gain from this I don't think. Could be a follower trying to force another interaction with his Kira so that he doesn't seem too distant
#763 - Vander asks StD why he doesn't think Lorne or mala could be Kira. This feels similar to 236 above where it feels like Vander is trying to figure out StD's thoughts on people. Kinda feels like subtle PR hunting and Vander asking the one person he knows is scum their thoughts. StD answers this in #762 and says that he TRs mala because of the way she has handled herself
#771 - Vander asks StD to elaborate

even more

and says he doesn't understand the mala read despite ALSO townreading her two times earlier for behavioral stuff. This implies Vander understands the TR but he's trying to get more information out of StD. He's PR hunting
#784 - Vander asking StD why mala can't be scum here
#1029 - Vander still pressuring StD about the mala townread. Very odd stuff considering he townread two of mala's posts earlier. These last 4 interactions seem very forced so that when someone goes back and looks at them they can say "Vander pushed StD, no way StD is Kira". This isn't pushing at all. It's Vander begging StD to elaborate on a TR
#1059 - Vander disagrees with StD that Gimli might be a follower to Kira!Kawaii
#1080 - this one is short and I think pretty important so I'm posting it: "I was potentially moving to Mala/kokichi/std today until that post" ......wait what? Vander actually says here that he was considering "moving to StD" after no previous expression of suspicion or anything. The only thing Vander has been saying in regards to StD is how he doesn't understand StD's mala TR. This is clearly distancing throwing StD's name in here
#1091 - Vander says he suddenly remembers why StD townread mala. Yeah...ok...

The next post is Vander's reads list. I've bolded and highlighted the part about StD:

I kind of just want the day to end at this point, I feel like I'm just tunneling my reads harder and harder.

I still think Gimli is a pretty terrible lim, I think the way he's played is the kind of inconsistency that comes more often from passionate town than scum with an agenda.

I still don't think Kawaii is town, but I think other people sound scummy and I'm happy to entertain the possibility that I'm just really tunneled.


I didn't like Mala's reaction to Gimli at all, I feel like when someone calls you out as a TPR people react in several different ways. I think the towny way to react, regardless of whether you'reTPR or not, is to kind of play into it, like giving a wink emoji or joking about your vig target or something.
I think Mala's reaction was pretty scummy, like Mala seemed really annoyed in a really obviously "I'm a TPR" type way. I get that this may seem unhelpful to talk about, but it was imo so blatant that there's no chance anyone missed it, so I'm just going to talk about it. I basically feel like if you are what you're softing it doesn't make sense because you would not want to actually react in that way, and it didn't feel at all like a VT trying to take a bullet, so I think it was just scummy.

I thought STD's reaction to Gimli a few pages ago was pretty good, I got the vibe from it that they actually believed what they were saying and weren't defending themselves just for the sake of defending themselves.

I really, really, really don't like kokichi's continual defence of "I literally can't be Kira" because it relies on the premise that followers would have just hard defended them facing an early D1, and the fact that no one did is clearing.
I don't really think this is something kokichi actually believes so it just reads as false.

Other than that, my non updated reads are that I think black and lorne are town and everyone else is null.

^^
This is really weird btw. Extremely shallow read on StD. Just a few posts before this Vander was "considering moving to StD" today but here he's just like "uh I like StD's reaction to Gimli a few pages ago"

These are all the interactions from Vander to StD. My first reaction is I can't believe HPE has cleared StD over this

I think I want to look at HPE to StD next

#2065 - I break down HPE's case on why StD can't be Kira. Keep in mind that HPE has walked back most of this case of his in recent posts. Strong indication HPE is StD's follower

Spoiler: #2065

Do your ass an ISO read and you'll see that

StD and Vanderscamp agree like, once

. Vanderscamp calls StD's reaction good and then

most of their interactions are disagreements

,

Vander including StD in solve lists for Kira/Followers

, and

by the end during twilight just openly saying that he thinks StD is a Follower to a lying Kira!Mala

. They have zero synergy, yet nor are they keeping distance.

Wait, this is extremely telling from HPE here. It clearly did the research (or knows what it is talking about) regarding Vander/StD interactions. This is seriously why you don't think StD could be Vander's Kira? It's the most surface level thing you could possibly say about someone in a reads list. There isn't even a read here...it's just "I agree with one thing StD said".

It was a few times actually

They don't have many interactions at all and I wouldn't say that most of them are disagreements. You can read my post on StD a bit ago but most of the interactions were Vander trying to get StD to explain his mala read and then going "oh ok I remember you saying that" when he finally does

He actually TRed StD in 1451. Also what are you saying here really? I don't see StD in any solve lists for Kira/Followers, can you point these out?

Where did this happen??

#2067 - I vote for StD

#2068 - StD immediately responds and starts the counterclaim process. He was reading along as the pressure grew right in front of his eyes

Spoiler: #2068

ugh

you're making this so boring

should i make it interesting?

[Black]

Unofficial vote count:

With

8

votes in play, it takes

5

to execute someone.

Save The Dragons

(5): Gimli, Black, Save The Dragons, HighPrincessErinys, Kokichi Oma

Gimli

(1): MegAzumarill

Not Voting

(2): KawaiiKame, Not_Mafia

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-03-21 04:33:23).

Grace Period: No one can be hammered for (expired on 2023-03-14 04:33:23)

-----

We win after the grace period is over

[Black]

Literally shaking with glee for when this flips and everyone finds out this one is town.

I can maybe see Kokichi as an StD follower but I haven't put much thought into it

[Black]

I would prefer us not go to grace period. We have more to discuss here it feels like.

Not in my eyes. We win with an StD flip

[Black]

I would love to hear more from you and N_M possibly but he has a lot of reading to do I think

[Black]

if this ability was used by kira, it makes no sense cause its gamethrow, since the std flip serves kira's wincon
std can't have the ability himself cause he already had another ability
hpe can't be the one with the ability since she already has another ability

I rly hope it wasn't kawaiikame but whoever did this is confirmed not kira

It wasn't kawaii right? He used his ability on HPE overnight

I'm guessing Meg used the ability because she said we have more to talk about

Either way I think it's silly and I thought I was going to wake up to a victory screen

[Black]

This ability will be used automatically, if you have undeniable proof that player is on your side.

Whatever townie used this to save Kira is going to hear it from me postgame

[Black]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

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Kira doesn't have this skill though

If HPE really is town then Meg or Kokichi could have used it to save their Kira

[Black]

Kira does but I think Kira is StD and he already used his skill

[Black]

So if HPE is town then this probably came from Meg or Kokichi as StD's other follower

[Black]

I feel like we should probably skill claim at this point to see who did this

[Black]

Me - incognito
Gimli - Clingy
StD - I'm Not Kira
Kawaii - investigate thingy
HPE - send message
Meg - ???
Kokichi - ???
N_M - ???

[Black]

I had clingy

ofc I'm not the one who did this

You never got to prove clingy but I don't see why you would do this unless you're StD's follower

[Black]

Who did that ability?

What's your skill?

[Black]

I'm the jail keeper, which is unfortunate. Kira used the death note

Wait, doesn't the JK ability block night abilities like the Death Note?

[Black]

Me - incognito
Gimli - Clingy
StD - I'm Not Kira
Kawaii - investigate thingy
HPE - send message
Meg - ???
Kokichi - Go to Jail
N_M - ???

[Black]

"Write" is a night action. And JK protects people from night actions. You didn't target mala did you? Are you the other follower?

[Black]

Ahhh, it can get you everywhere. I missed that

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You don't have to be mean about it, I just missed it

[Black]

So then I'm guessing it was just Meg with the time ability yeah. I don't think N_M uses that here based on what I've seen from him and heard about him

[Black]

If HPE is town then Meg makes sense as an StD follower

[Black]

Or meg is town and std follower

Who is Kira in this scenario?

[Black]

HPE went from hard townread on StD to just voting him no problem which i find interesting

HPE only voted for him after Gimli pointed out that it should be voting for him if it was Kira

I saw that as HPE trying to play it off like he's Kira

[Black]

It's* Kira

[Black]

HPE went from hard townread on StD to just voting him no problem which i find interesting

He hardclaimed scum

Yeah but HPE's initial reaction to StD's claim was that he's lying lol

[Black]

Cute theater

[Black]

Don't know why everyone is also postulating "Well

if

HPE is town then Meg used the ability..." when you already know my ability for certain.

I think we were just wondering if town Meg or scum Meg used it

[Black]

if NM has this ability, I don't think he uses it.
if meg has this ability, I think she might use it, but not coming here to say anything afterwards is bad.

if either is kira, the ability wouldn't be used.
if either is a follower and std is kira, the ability is used automatically.
either way, whoever used the ability is not kira.

Agree with all of this

[Black]

Agree with that also honestly. When it said it can't wait for postgame when it gets revealed as town made me reconsider

I think it's Meg and I think she used her ability to try and save StD

[Black]

Kinda thinking that Vander and StD didn't really have to claim when they did and that Kira would probably have just won if they didn't

[Black]

Also thinking that if it is StD here then Gimli should get credit for a) putting us in this situation and b) getting us out of it

lol

[Black]

We still need one more vote on StD

[Black]

VOTE: HPE

I'll vote who I think it is, that way if we lose it's not on me

So you think StD claimed follower because he was bored with winning the easy way?

[Black]

You don't think he was lying to make us question voting for him? That's a Kira move btw. A follower doesn't make that move unless you really believe him about being bored. Why would you believe scum here?

[Black]

VOTE: HPE

I'll vote who I think it is, that way if we lose it's not on me

So you think StD claimed follower because he was bored with winning the easy way?

I don't see the motivation for him to do it as Kira when only 2 people suspected him.

I laid out the timeline. Two people suspected him and two others were open to the idea and actively going to case him. That's 4, and the claim came right after all 4 showed interest in StD being Kira

He was under heavy accusations of being Kira when he claimed

[Black]

You see the motivation to claim as follower but not Kira? What??

[Black]

There's less motivation for a follower to claim here Kokichi and you are choosing to believe that being bored with winning the game is valid motivation. I don't get it

[Black]

VOTE: HPE

I'll vote who I think it is, that way if we lose it's not on me

So you think StD claimed follower because he was bored with winning the easy way?

I don't see the motivation for him to do it as Kira when only 2 people suspected him.

I laid out the timeline. Two people suspected him and two others were open to the idea and actively going to case him. That's 4, and the claim came right after all 4 showed interest in StD being Kira

He was under heavy accusations of being Kira when he claimed

You have to keep in context the group of people. He was not being voted out then. Everyone gets suspected and then everyone unvotes it happened all day 1

Regardless of when he was going to be voted out, the thread had just turned on him right in front of his eyes. He was fine defending himself and lying to Gimli about being town, but as soon as me, Kawaii, and Meg all agreed StD could be Kira, he claimed. 4 people was too much and he threw out his last attempt to make us vote elsewhere. It worked on you

[Black]

Like I understand if you don't want the responsibility of trying to figure out who it actually is and just voting a confirmed scum, but don't act like it's something Kira would do. StD obviously thought his kira role proved him as not kira and not what it actually did

Don't act like you have been trying to find Kira at all. I gave you the opportunity to look for StD's Kira and you were like "nah I'm good" so idk why you are even bringing up my responsibility?

[Black]

but as soon as me, Kawaii, and Meg all agreed StD could be Kira, he claimed. 4 people was too much and he threw out his last attempt to make us vote elsewhere. It worked on you

Yet the only person that voted was StD

Look at the timestamps in my timeline post. StD claimed immediately after I cased him. He didn't give the others time to look into it. He had to get the claim out immediately so they would question voting for him

I think you should answer kawaii's question. Why do you think it's HPE?

[Black]

@Kawaii - you still think it's StD? End this madness

[Black]

if its hpe, and std thought he had an ability that literally meant he is not kira as a literal follower of hpe, why the absofuckinghell would he use it?

Because he was BORED lol

[Black]

Because it took the attention off HPE and it worked

You mentioned our responsibility to find Kira. Why don't you case why HPE is Kira? "I just think it's him" isn't really doing it for me...

[Black]

I've cased StD and explained my position fully. My responsibility is over

[Black]

you think std thought his ability meant an inno from him being kira, but if he thought that why would he use it as a follower? wouldn't we just kill hpe if that was the case? or something?

He could use it as a follower if we really want to believe he was bored with winning the game. I don't buy it though

[Black]

Hopefully Kokichi has disappeared to go make his case. I find it disingenuous that he's accusing me of not trying to find Kira when I was part of the push against StD that made him crack

[Black]

Also keep in mind that StD's original reason for claiming was that he was bored and didn't want to win right away. If we assume this to be true then why would StD then vote himself to try and win faster? It's all theatre. StD is Kira playing mind games with you

[Black]

lol

...

[Black]

You guys really are so tunneled I could probably out kira now and itd be not against my wincon

You didn't even take a second to think of why I did what I did. You're so smug and that will be your downfall.

You already told us it was because you were bored. Or have you thought of a better reason now much later?

[Black]

StD you should unvote so this game lasts forever

How did I know you weren't going to case HPE XD

[Black]

Kawaii, you should hammer now while you have the chance

[Black]

Gut feeling says Gimli, but I agree that I don't want to spend 60 pages figuring it out. So I'm fine with StD

VOTE: StD

I'm going to bed. I'll unvote in case there is a revelation or something

UNVOTE:

Honestly Kokichi might be the other follower. He was cool going StD but unvoted right before the deadline. He's been trying to get us away from StD this whole time

[Black]

That would imply that town Meg used her ability to reset the day. Wouldn't be the craziest assumption since Meg did post saying we shouldn't end this at the deadline

Either way, doesn't matter at this point. StD is Kira

[Black]

I'm glad we flushed down a follower last gameday. can you imagine d2 with two followers instead of just the one?

Seems unwinnable in that scenario tbh. But then again I thought it was unwinnable after we lost mala but I actually think we got this

Vander didn't have to CC but I guess he thought outing the detective was worth it. If I was online when he did I would have claimed detective so Mala didn't have to and refused to use my shot. Kira would have had to use Assassinate on me because I had Incognito

[Black]

I got online like 30 minutes too late XD

I wonder if town would have pushed me to use my vig though. It wouldn't really make sense to holster with Vander being outed scum but I could've just said I wanted to save it for Kira, not a follower

[Black]

it was actually kokichi forcing out a full claim if you wanna tinfoil on koki as follower

Was it? I'll have to go back and look

[Black]

It's StD. There is no way he was bored while he was about to win the game

[Black]

Like, we could spend a few days arguing why it could/couldn't be HPE, Koki, or Meg...but are any of them going to be a better vote than the guy that claimed follower under serious pressure?

[Black]

N_M only showed up when it was to hammer and possibly win the game (if he's Kira)

Idk though. I still want to stay the course on StD

[Black]

If you guys would rather go N_M then I could jump on board but if we lose to StD fakeclaiming follower I'm gonna be pissed lol

[Black]

StD didn't want to argue why he's not Kira so he took the easy route, claimed follower and then dipped

Is N_M really more likely to be Kira?

[Black]

I mean yeah it seems like it works but I haven't looked at Vander's interactions with Lorne

Maybe we should wait for Meg and N_M to tell us what abilities they have

[Black]

I'm not sure StD would openly TR Kira like that

[Black]

why do you think it's me, black

do you have any thoughts about my conversation with gimli right now

This was StD trying to deter me from reading the thread after I said it could be him. Why would follower StD do this?

[Black]

Why would follower StD defend himself so hard against Gimli? Just to claim scum a little bit later?

[Black]

This is what StD said about himself:

"i think in my mind as a follower, i would attempt to distance but do it lightly, i wouldn't try to signal because it's too risky"

He didn't distance from Lorne at all. He openly said it's not him. This revelation came before StD claimed and I bet it was before he even thought about claiming. This is probably a genuine thought

[Black]

VOTE: save the dragons

yeah you're right lets just kill him

I'm not trying to distract you from solving outside of the StD possibility but I really do just think it's him. If you or anyone else can find reasons why N_M would be a better lim I'm listening

[Black]

It's interesting what you take at face value and what you dont

Isn't it?

Do you want us to vote for you or not lol

Make up your mind if you want to win or if you are Kira worried about losing

[Black]

cool, and I think you're bad at being Kira

[Black]

Someone come in and hammer this fool. If we lose it's on me

[Black]

idrc what you think

[Black]

Let's go Kawaii. You sheep me all the time in every game we play. Time to do it now, when it matters the most

[Black]

If StD is telling the truth then he deserves to win for this play

[Black]

Let's keep in mind that StD's whole reason for claiming was because it was boring to win by being voted out. He says he wants us to find Kira. Then he goes and votes for himself (and asks others to do it) which contradicts his whole reason for claiming. He's playing mind games

[Black]

What makes you think I'm kira more, voting myself or unvoting

Both. And I think you waited to unvote til the perfect time so it didn't seem like you were Kira in survival mode

This is Kira guys. It's so obvious

[Black]

HPE has been pretty silent since this whole thing started, they were making wall posts before. Just saying

You only pop in to cast doubt on us voting StD. You even asked him to unvote himself lmao. You're the other follower

[Black]

Black: anything you do makes you kira!

Nah, I can just see Kira motivations in what you are doing. Fake claim follower because you don't want to win. Then vote yourself to make people think "surely Kira won't vote himself?" Then you unvote at the right time in a last ditch effort to save yourself

[Black]

HPE has been pretty silent since this whole thing started, they were making wall posts before. Just saying

You only pop in to cast doubt on us voting StD. You even asked him to unvote himself lmao. You're the other follower

BTW I also said I don't think it's N_M you're not even reading at this point

Oh I'm reading everything lmao. What does it matter if you don't think it's N_M? You're still pushing town HPE trying to win the game for you and StD

[Black]

Kokichi has tried to guilt me twice into "not looking for the real Kira" meanwhile he's just like "it's HPE kekw"

[Black]

HPE has been quiet since this whole ordeal. At first they would not vote StD and then was willing to lay down and vote StD and go along with Gimli who they suspected.

You think HPE is Kira based on only today's actions?

[Black]

I was proud of you for a second there gimli you gave yourself a chance

Comments like this are only here to dissuade us from voting StD. Ya'll don't see this?

[Black]

It's StD and Kokichi here guys. Read Kokichi's ISO since the start of D2. He's been defending StD the whole time aside from the theatre vote/unvote right before the first deadline.

[Black]

Actually

VOTE: Save the Dragons

Looks like filler post just trying to blend in with the game, when the discussion was how to best go about scumreading in this game.

Look at this distancing in the 67th post of the game. Kokichi made a legitimate vote here because StD posted a YouTube video

[Black]

Vander: their posting seems genuine, so I don't think I'd vote there right now either.
HPE: I want to see what HPE has to say when it's not just about me, their iso was almost exclusively about me. interesting to see how they interact with others based on reads that don't revolve around me.
Lorne: Seems like a lot of their posts are just piggybacking off of things, but could just be a reactionary player which isn't a bad thing.

everyone else I think I've talked about to some compacity.

Kokichi reads in 374. He says he's talked about everyone else but he hasn't talked about StD at all

[Black]

I just finished Kokichi's iso. He avoids StD for like 98% of the game. He also pushes mala after she breadcrumbs PR and forces her to claim

It's Kokichi and StD

[Black]

I would say, if I was follower, I would know there was a chance I would be outed somehow. And I would not make my interactions so straight forward, thus making town even more confused or look in the wrong direction.

Bingo!

[Black]

Now it's all coming together

[Black]

No one has tried to steer us away from StD harder than Kokichi has. Not even HPE

[Black]

StD you should unvote so this game lasts forever

He's literally asking for Kira to unvote themselves here

[Black]

You're putting it together now kawaii

[Black]

We would still need Meg or N_M to hammer since Kira and his follower won't be voting there

[Black]

Fwiw I still think Gimli is acting scummy lol

Yet I'm scummy for thinking so.

I don't really think you're a follower anymore ig

What do you think about StD?

They hard defended Mala, does Kira really need to do that? But, I'm willing to iso and see

Kokichi's first reaction to being asked about StD was that StD defended mala. Kira defending the breadcrumbing PR makes perfect sense to me. Makes him look towny af

[Black]

I'm open to hear a StD case and I admit it's probably not smart to think it could only be HPE/Gimli. If we consider StD then we have to consider Meg imo

I'm the only one it can't be and Kawaii is about as close to cleared as you can be without actually being cleared

You scumread me for having this thought, to keep options open..

A little defensive here as I move on to StD as my main Kira suspect hm?

[Black]

kawaii, we're going to need your vote on StD here. Unless you really think it's not him

[Black]

Yeah StD is riding the fence there to posture himself to eventually vote HPE since that was the consensus Kira suspect at the time. He's trying to look like he's solving too

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Yeah, because it's fucking N_M.

yeahhh I don't really know this guy

[Black]

Well we need either Meg or N_M to show up to hammer this ftw

[Black]

We all understand there's a chance it's not StD here but imo it's the best shot we have at winning the game. We can talk in circles about the other possibilities but none of them have as compelling of an argument to be Kira as StD does

[Black]

So weird. Maybe StD is Kira?

[Black]

StD is in the corner playing DDR hitting F5 rn. If he was a follower he would just hammer and gg

[Black]

Kokichi did a good job making StD unvote himself which requires Meg or NM to appear from the depths to seal the deal

[Black]

I would prefer us not go to grace period. We have more to discuss here it feels like.

We're a few hours away from being 48 hours removed from this post. Meg should be getting a prod here

[Black]

You may be right

[Black]

Nothing left to do but dance

Who wants to play ddr?

Get off the game and come hammer yourself

[Black]

@Kokichi, you wanna hammer your Kira?

[Black]

We are on the last stage. Kokichi and StD have accepted their fate

[Black]

Kokichi disappeared after I started accusing him of being a follower and StD disappeared when he was put to e-1

Yeah they could be busy but I'm choosing to believe they don't know how to react to this corner they've been put in

[Black]

If we win this bc of you then I'll probably just love you forever

I know I can be draining to deal with, my tunneling is pretty bad, so I think we're even

[Black]

Well I don't think it's HPE, and Meg!follower surely would have posted in the last 2 days to try and save StD. NM isn't a follower because he tried to hammer StD

It's probably just Kokichi

[Black]

We still need a hammer

[Black]

I would prefer us not go to grace period. We have more to discuss here it feels like.

Hey can you come hammer StD so we can win?

[Black]

I feel like StD would have hammered himself by now. I think we win

[Black]

Miltank used Rollout!

[Black]

[Black]

FOR MALA!!!

[Black]

WOOOOOO!!!!

[Black]

GGs everyone!!

[Black]

I'm satisfied with my play tbh. I called Vander in 173, contributed to making Kira crack in 2061, and then called Koki follower here in the endgame

Mala I hope I made you proud

Gimli you dropped this....

[Black]

do you think if StD just didn't claim that he would've won

Maybe. Hard to tell if the rest of the ppl would have voted him. Meg was MIA and who knows what NM would've done. I think Kawaii was coming around to StD before he claimed but not sure

[Black]

Gimli MVP or we riot

[Black]

Yeah, the fake Assistant CC maybe wasn't the move. I think StD claiming follower could have been good at some point but not immediately after the thread was figuring him out

[Black]

sometimes you gamble and it doesn't pay off

I think you played really well. I don't even think the claim was bad I just think the timing was. If it wasn't for Gimli you would have flown under the radar D2 ez pz

And I agree, thank you Enchant! This was a really fun game <3

[Black]

Thank you for hosting Enchant! One of the most fun games I've played on the site

You played very well. I think if you had gone against StD a little more D2 I wouldn't have been able to pin you as the follower, but that didn't even really matter because I think we were going to lim StD regardless