Mini Normal 2294: Monkey Business (Endgame)

[Ausuka]

At the moment Ausuka feels slightly >rand scum. I could see her being town but think scum is more likely.

In contrast I think Enchant is rather likely scum

You literally say I am more likely to be scum than town here and same with enchant?

And

literally

in that exact same quote I say you're 'slightly <rand scum' but you don't want to talk about that
I also contrast my position on you with someone who 'is rather likely scum' which implies that's not my position on you

When I say I 'think scum is more likely' what I mean is that you're more likely scum than random
I'll concede that I phrased it poorly but it should be clear what I mean if you apply what I've said in its context

What you said is that "I could see her being town but think scum is more likely." How would you expect me to read that as *anything* but being scum is more likely than being town? That is literally what that sentence means

I guess this should make me scumread you less but your approach to it leaves a bad taste in my mouth

[Ausuka]

I don't think you're like this as town

[Ausuka]

This is like phasmophobia when you have low sanity

[Ausuka]

spend your Mafia time budget solving instead

How do I solve?

Pick someone and try to murder them

[Ausuka]

I'm joking you probably shouldn't do that

Idk do you really like not have any thoughts on what mafia are more likely to do? You solve by trying to identify behaviour that town are unlikely to do and/or mafia are likely to do

[Ausuka]

Someone asks for reads and top 3. i don't want to but i'll do the bare minimum

I've got the player list below and if i have any thoughts i'll stick them next to them

KawaiiKame
Save the Dragons < replacement, did a very long catch up which let them get in loads of reads that never meant anything
geraintm
Dionysus < i don't remember them at all. and realise why, they have been replaced but the Page 1 post from mod doesn't show this so i literally have no idea what this slot is doing. must be melanque, but i don't remember their posts either.
Magical Girl
Gimli < people seem to like pushing here
Elsa Jay - was this the one who claimed cop or Enchant?
Comus < i had them as town early doors, but i can't remember why now exactly and i fear i have given them a clean slate for something 50 pages ago
nepenthe - can't remember them at all
Enchant - was this the one who claimed cop or was it elsa? Who ever it was i am giving a slight town lean for being too dumb as scum claim like that
Kokichi Oma
Ausuka < i keep seeing long posts from them which seem argumentative. but i don't know what about
Klick

to vote off - really don't care, but i think comus, gimli & ausuka all talk so much they should not be eliminated because they'll give themselves away at some point if scum.

this is a 62 page day 1....

If you had just written "I haven't read the game" you could have saved yourself a lot of time and it would have said about the same thing

[Ausuka]

Why you so convinced Elsa's cop claim is a fake claim?

familiarity with her on any level?

I mean I'm not disagreeing with you but I don't understand why you're saying it

[Ausuka]

No? You just replaced in and I don't think you've talked about it

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

This is absolutely the vote that should be happening today

I absolutely disagree and think that STD is limping his way into being the compromise vote that's probably town

he hasn't done anything that's screamed town at me so if everyone bar me wants this I'm not gonna kill myself defending him but I think we should push through a more difficult/controversial option bc I think that's more likely to flip scum

I mean I'm not massively confident on the vote on std but i think he's been, uh, very underwhelming and I think 'compromise' or non-controversial lims can be scum pretty often? I don't think scum tend to like defending partners who are lackluster under pressure in that way

I also don't think kawaii would feel like any less of a compromise lim? I'm not really sure how to approach kawaii though, it's been a few years since I played a newbie game

[Ausuka]

And shrug I can understand being cautious of me

[Ausuka]

This probably doesn't matter very much but if kawaii does flip scum Klick is almost never scum because of the 'unccd town compulsive visitor thing' and I doubt elsa would be scum either?

I guess the scumread on Std does feel convenient but she made the read before the wagon really took off just now

Shrug

pedit: honestly both of them are in a fairly similar space of being not quite scumread but below neutral, I like std slightly less and want to give kawaii more benefit of the doubt cos she's obviously a new player

[Ausuka]

This probably doesn't matter very much but if kawaii does flip scum Klick is almost never scum because of the 'unccd town compulsive visitor thing' and I doubt elsa would be scum either?

I guess the scumread on Std does feel convenient but she made the read before the wagon really took off just now

Shrug

pedit: honestly both of them are in a fairly similar space of being not quite scumread but below neutral, I like std slightly less and want to give kawaii more benefit of the doubt cos she's obviously a new player

this is funny bc while I'm trying to not do pre-flip associatives klick was basically my number 1 next scumread in a world where kawaii flips scum lol

not related to claim in any way, just from the engagement pattern between the two. could definitely be klick!town trying to get a new player into the game but also good be klick trying to set up kawaii to engage with thread when kawaii doesn't know how

don't see the Elsa connection personally, but eh, I can go StD, how many votes we at?

also are you still on gimli!scum or?

I am still scumreading gimli yes

I have no idea how many votes we are at because we haven't had a votecount in ages and if I wanted to count votes I would just mod a game and then I would watch people suffer instead of suffering myself

Also, i imagine that kind of coaching would take place in the scum pt and not in the game thread?

[Ausuka]

Also I agree that it's not good to use pre-flip associatives to make choices, or to assume you have a good chance of guessing an actual scum team d1, but I think it's fine to make notes in the game thread about associative stuff in case you die before it becomes useful or you forget it at some point

[Ausuka]

when I say coaching I mean more like... support? I assume that any actual coaching would be taking place in scum PT, yes

I mean more like softballs of stuff to respond or commenting on kawaii's posts with stuff like 'good reads' or w/e

Ah i see what you're saying now

Still, I don't really think it's intuitive for scum to be so friendly with their partners and i also think it's sort of natural to be sympathetic to kawaii here, especially if you town read her? I don't fully understand the rationale for why people do but it feels like enough people have done so at some point that it isn't necessarily a scum thing

Whatever this is probably not a super useful discussion to be having. Ty for the votecount mg

[Ausuka]

Std were you scum be honest :angy:

[Ausuka]

oh i meant to

[Ausuka]

He replaced in he knew what he was getting into

[Ausuka]

so true bestie

[Ausuka]

If the game has 4 scum it would certainly explain why everyone is a cop

[Ausuka]

Rejoice.

[Ausuka]

std flipped town

???

[Ausuka]

I mean initially I thought MG was fakehammering for the reaction and like, I think it's gone on a bit too long for that to be the case but I don't think it's particularly rare for scum to lie

Why is he flipping town

pedit: i definitely thought that said "I say what people want to hear" on first reading

[Ausuka]

I'm going to target Ausuka tonight

Thank you mr visitor

[Ausuka]

Ok I mean I've changed my reads before this game I'm not just asking rhetorically or whatever I actually want to kno

[Ausuka]

w

[Ausuka]

I mean, if you're town here I think your thinking about players like comus is fatally flawed. Even a player who maybe is not that great isn't some kind of tool you can use and control; I don't expect any mafia player to go for things like that because people are unpredictable. I think in future days comus can and will turn on anyone including me if his prior beliefs are falsified.

Like in the last mini normal I played frogsterking townreads me the entire game and says most of my posts are good and then on like late d2/early d3 he just totally pushes this idea that I'm scum. I was town in that game but if I'm mafia there's still no way to predict or control it

[Ausuka]

[Ausuka]

MG/Elsa/Comus

Rejoice.

[Ausuka]

scum probably has scumchat for sending NAs guys lets take a chill pill with calling MG scum lol

Sorry I am too busy rejoicing to listen

[Ausuka]

I am entirely sober

[Ausuka]

Hey guys what's your favourite colour? Mine is green

[Ausuka]

Hi magical girl is my vig shot.

[Ausuka]

Got decent information too.

anything you'd like to share?

[Ausuka]

VOTE: gimli

probably still want to do this. sorry

also welcome sky!!

pedit: oops

[Ausuka]

I am surprised you don't think i'm scum with enchant anymore?

[Ausuka]

thats cause im scum and all my reads are fake

or im just weighing in MG's read on you

something you're not doing btw

MG had a very strong tr on me, if I'm mafia why would I kill her? she was the only ally I had for the most part of this game.

I never do stuff like that, I think it's pretty common for Mafia to kill people that are townreading them

Maybe you thought the bodyguard claim was real and that was worth killing or something

[Ausuka]

I also think you are probably not planning to endgame as wolf right now fwiw!

[Ausuka]

Oh also I missed the very strong part and I don't really agree with that either because iirc Magical Girl was talking about how she hadn't read like half of the game

[Ausuka]

I do read into the NK in some situations but the NK having a townread on someone is usually not one of them

[Ausuka]

I also think from how hard you're pushing this it could have been like pre planned honestly

[Ausuka]

Wow I can't believe you would play to Comus and pocket him like this

Hey guys Gimli is pocketing Comus

It's foolproof logic because how could town ever have the same opinions as Comus right???

[Ausuka]

I had multiple reasons actually.

Deadline was nigh and I wanted a lim within my three list of names, STD was giving off strong goon/vt vibe so at worst we’d be losing a VT, STD flip would give me my much needed info on how close/far I am in the spectrum in this game, etc

Yeah but you already said the thing so I might just laugh at it in the future.

Oh I doubt Gimli is scum. I have him as p much locktown.

you missed this, ausuka?

I'm not taking that as gospel for someone who admitted to not reading most of the game

[Ausuka]

Frankly the magical girl kill was already baffling because there is absolutely no way someone could ever accidentally post a PM in the thread on the new website because you literally have to like double click the contact button

The fact you say you believed it makes it easier to understand, though

[Ausuka]

I was saying I missed the part of your post that says that on my first reading

Mg did indeed say you were a strong townread

[Ausuka]

Also if we want to talk about TMI ("you disagree with the opinion of other people about enchant and my sample size is like 2, town can never have reads different to me" is a shitty argument anyway) we can talk about your save the dragons 180

[Ausuka]

It's pretty convenient that you only started feeling it after he was hammered

[Ausuka]

also me being mad at anyone's lack of urgency will never be something I'll replicate properly as scum, so at the end of d1 when I'm admonishing klick and saying the threadstate is that we killed a townie, I think you should be reading that as towny emotions and perception and not 'oh look maybe gimli tmi'd'

If you're aware of the problem I really don't think it counts.

Also if you think I'm scum because I didn't follow Mg's read on you, how come you stopped caring about her read after like five seconds

[Ausuka]

hi ausuka!

higazer

[Ausuka]

Ooh now that I can think about it I can also use your seasoned logic against you

Mg thought I was town, Mena said I was (probably) town, even Klick thought I was town after pushing me for a bit. Townreading me for that would be nonsensical because scum get townread like all the time, but according to your logic that's what you should be doing

[Ausuka]

I'm pretty sure it took you like five seconds to stop caring about that

Pedit: lol

[Ausuka]

Did you ever respond to that post where I asked for a game where scum enchant played like this? I missed have missed that link

[Ausuka]

lol ok

Sorry the easy miselim wasn't as easy as you were hoping for

[Ausuka]

Wait do you still think Elsa's a cop lol

[Ausuka]

Also, gimli is super obviously not pocketing Comus here, that's not the point

When my reads aligned with Comus d1 gimli acted like it was proof I was scum because town could never mindmeld with Comus

Now his reads are exactly the same and it's a brilliant chance to show how full of shit he was d1

[Ausuka]

Mena pointed it out that she always does shit like this. She literally basically said "hey look at me I'm fake claiming" in the exact same post she claimed

If she's a cop and claimed truthfully she was a cop I would be shook

[Ausuka]

Hey enchant if we gaslight Elsa enough we can get her to forget her own role PM

Are you in

[Ausuka]

I still think Comus is town?

I think I know who he is an alt of and that he just communicates really weirdly. Like he over-stresses his confidence at all times which made him feel like he was tunneling you but I thought he was probably just doing his thing because his tone was very similar to another person and I was right about that, he stopped scumreading you eventually. Maybe he thinks he's pressuring me by pretending to be certain or something, I don't know, but as I said I experienced like this exact same thing in a previous game and I thought that person was scum for it and they were town

[Ausuka]

I don't think believing the claim is stupid if you don't have experience with Elsa

Ironically, my opinion on gimli here probably does depend at least in part on what Elsa says

[Ausuka]

bout to sleep but wondeful to be back in the game. Sad it costed us one of the few people who didn't immediately want me dead. Got decent information too.

I want you to be honest about this btw Elsa. I know you are a gambit player and that's fine but I do think it has some actual relevance now

[Ausuka]

Sorry I don't think any of that beats Rejoice

[Ausuka]

lol

[Ausuka]

I don't care anymore so

viewtopic.php?p=13480207&f=53&t=89826&u ... #p13480207

Here's the game I was talking about

[Ausuka]

Not really. I think their playstyles are similar and it's Possible I got them somewhat confused so maybe I should check again but I think eiralox is more coherent

Pedit: eh, as I said I think this behaviour from him was like very similar to what he did in that game but I'm open to feedback if you think there are differences. I can't be one hundred percent sure it's the same person but I felt that way even beforehand and the feeling of the push is iirc very similar to what it was like then. Idk

[Ausuka]

Ok uh I don't think my action would be miscellaneous but I can check

My thought was that gimli having thought Elsa's claim was real seemed pretty genuine and I'd be surprised If scum gimli didn't target Elsa in some way

[Ausuka]

I think the role feels pretty useless but I'm glad you like it

[Ausuka]

Also I'm kind of skeptical the gimli inno is real but whatever we don't like have to go there today

I will have a think about it

[Ausuka]

My role I think would be an action investigative role, not misc. I checked and the wiki says that too

[Ausuka]

Miscellaneous - Neighborizer, Friendly Neighbor, Hider, Fruit Vendor, Visitor, Mailman, Checker

This isn't what I was expecting and not sure what to make of it

[Ausuka]

Me? I am loud visionary

[Ausuka]

Visionary doesn't

Maybe we have two visitors

[Ausuka]

Ausuka is Omgussing me while trying to pocket Gimli.
Enchant is a goon and killed Magical Girl.
Kokichi Oma is with them.


This is the team. All three want to kill our cop. You are all on your own from here on out(Especially you Gimli)

This is a terrible reads list. No way you genuinely believe this

It's completely in line with his character so far

[Ausuka]

kokichi trolling too hard and acting too cynical to be a townie, imo. reminds me of his follower game in death note.

I'm not being snarky here I'm genuinely asking

What is scummy about this that wasn't true when I originally pushed him and you acted like no one could believe it

[Ausuka]

Like that post is just lightly mocking Comus and I really don't see your angle here

[Ausuka]

can anyone describe ausuka's scum meta to me these days? i remember her hating playing as scum

I could but you probably would prefer someone else do it!

[Ausuka]

I *guess* i should unvote gimli

I'm kind of confused and demotivated at this point because gimli is the person who I want to vote and I think elsa is fakeclaiming but I don't know that and it is probably strategically unwise to push gimli lole

[Ausuka]

i feel like we have too many PR claims

Why

[Ausuka]

Ausuka claimed something weird before the night phase

?

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Klick

Rejoice.

[Ausuka]

Bro wtf

I'm not sure if I know what's going on here but it's very funny

[Ausuka]

Hm ok I kind of see it? Especially if you assume Elsa is an actual cop

I mean I think hider isn't really an useful role but maybe some nrg people disagree with that

[Ausuka]

you're off the hook skygazer congrats

[Ausuka]

Thought hider generally had the weak modifier to act like a weird cop that dies if they check an evil? But also can't be killed if targeted.

Plus general if you prove someone is a hider like Kawaii claiming it was them who I saw through the vision, it's hard to say but I never have seen a game with a Hider as scum? Isn't that one of those roles that are basically always town?

Maybe? It makes more sense coming from town, but I feel like there's also a possibility this is one of those gimmick games and all the mafia are compulsive visitors or something

[Ausuka]

Elsa jay owned by scumslips epic style

VOTE: Elsa jay

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Klick

[Ausuka]

locktowning enchant fwiw

I'm glad you've finally seen the light

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Klick

Let me guess you consider Compulsive Visitor mafia claim?

Not really

[Ausuka]

Bad

[Ausuka]

ok i changed my mind

VOTE: Comus

[Ausuka]

[Ausuka]

I know he's not big on communication but i really struggle to believe comus goes from refusing to talk to me and proclaiming the game is solved and we all must rejoiced to like totally changing the scumteam this easily

i also don't think it's a coincidence this happens after the first real heat he's gotten all game

[Ausuka]

Yeah you're right I won't

[Ausuka]

What happened to my scumteam with enchant and kokichi

Where did it go

I miss my scumbuddies

[Ausuka]

Omg how many people am I pocketing this is getting a bit silly

[Ausuka]

That isn't even relevant to comus's alignment I just feel like I can't breathe in this game without getting accused of pocketing people

[Ausuka]

If I townread someone? Pocket

I talk normally to someone in a mafia game? Pocket

I have vaguely similar reads to someone? Believe it or not, pocket

[Ausuka]

I'm still waiting for the case that I'm scum with enchant and kokichi, personally

[Ausuka]

We're still waiting for that modifier Elsa. I'll let you cook.

As I said to gera, I'll case this, what fun that's gonna be.

I'm a Soul Cop. I visit and get a Soul Read on the person. Usually very accurate.

I also Jailkeep them on the side but that's a different matter entirely.

VOTE: Comus

:v I was hoping you would at least have some indication gimli was town

What was the idea behind claiming cop as jailkeeper?

[Ausuka]

Also the idea that I could be lying about being visionary seems pretty ??? because, like, my role proves itself through giving the results to other people

You can just say I'm a mafia visionary or something it's not that hard

[Ausuka]

Surely no one sincerely believes that Elsa is a jailkeeper

[Ausuka]

I wouldn't be surprised with whatever flip including vt at this point

I typed up a response but actually I should probably not be saying these takes out loud

[Ausuka]

I wouldn't be surprised with whatever flip including vt at this point

I typed up a response but actually I should probably not be saying these takes out loud

Yeah you still haven't given any reason for voting me, with Elsa and Kokichi. Thank you and goodbye.

Literally just iso yourself at the start of the day and think really hard

[Ausuka]

I wouldn't be surprised with whatever flip including vt at this point

I typed up a response but actually I should probably not be saying these takes out loud

Yeah you still haven't given any reason for voting me, with Elsa and Kokichi. Thank you and goodbye.

Literally just iso yourself at the start of the day and think really hard

Not going to work Ausuka. You vote me the moment I vote Elsa. You had a lot of space to do it before that. You were camping on Klick end day 1, start day 2, again without reasons. Day 2, you went after Elsa for fakeclaim. Elsa voted Kokichi. Kokichi then sheeps you, goads Elsa onto me.

'ISO yourself' is not a reason

The moment I switch off Elsa.. who you now state isn't a jailkeeper.

You're afraid to case me and provide actual reasons, to lock yourself in. we both know you don't think I'm scum.

Good luck. You've cornered yourself.

You literally said at the start of the day I was so scummy you wouldn't even talk to me lol

[Ausuka]

Hmm why would anyone scumread me after I act like the fucking king of mafiascum and say I have the game solved and refuse to even talk to my scumread who is literally 100% wolf, and then just post a fucking monkey meme and vote someone who you claimed COULD NOT BE SCUM

I really hope this is an act

[Ausuka]

So you're saying me tunneling Froggy day 1 was scum theatre?

You amuse me. I'll get to the Ausuka/Kokichi Oma possibilities regarding Day 1 in my own time, you most definitely didn't tunnel Ausuka all day. when your wagon gains traction, Ausuka's response becomes interesting. And that's when I really started to perk up.

I don't care all that much right now though.

I have three clown votes on me and I'll love to see how you, ausuka and Elsa jutify your votes other than "Durrrrrrr Comus thinks we might be scum durrrrr look at all these people comus think might be scum" or "durrrr comus ISO yourself."

Such lazy lazy rabbits.

bye bye

I know it's kind of within your established persona but I just find it immensely difficult to believe you actually lacked self awareness of what you were saying to this extent

[Ausuka]

Oh not to mention you still didn't give really any significant reason for your reads except Elsa is fake claiming cop

Which is something most of us knew on day 1 and when I pointed it out you accused me of fucking GASLIGHTING of all things like what

[Ausuka]

Thank you Ausuka. "Comus called me scum." "Comus then called Elsa scum."

You have no reasoning beyond this.

This is such a blatantly intentional misinterpretation, why don't you go the full mile and tell me I'm gaslighting again

[Ausuka]

Well, I guess this time at least I'd be GASLIGHTING for saying something you disagree with rather than something you apparently agreed with lol

[Ausuka]

I am actually irrationally angry at this considering Comus is probably doing this on purpose

I'm going to go and do other things see you guys

[Ausuka]

Ausuka trying to lead but being undermined

so true

[Ausuka]

Ausuka, when you come back I’d like you to tell me how often people playing like comus have ended up flipping town vs ended up flipping scum in ur experience

I do not really think I've seen anything like his d2 play

In a vague sense 'town can play badly' is accurate, obviously, and I thought comus was town for the reasons you're insinuating for most of the game.

I can't really reconcile his arrogance with the willingness to totally change pace. Acting like he has the game solved on d2, accusing me of gaslighting which is an abuse word, and mocking people for not having the same solve he does - and hours later, he just posts a meme and votes Elsa Jay for fakeclaiming - after accusing me of gaslighting because I said elsa was fakeclaiming!!!! There is a limit to what I can tolerate

[Ausuka]

Also, with regards to the pet reads thing - do you *expect* me to vote someone I townread when your case on them is that they're easy to kill?

[Ausuka]

Ausuka, when you come back I’d like you to tell me how often people playing like comus have ended up flipping town vs ended up flipping scum in ur experience

I do not really think I've seen anything like his d2 play

In a vague sense 'town can play badly' is accurate, obviously, and I thought comus was town for the reasons you're insinuating for most of the game.

I can't really reconcile his arrogance with the willingness to totally change pace. Acting like he has the game solved on d2, accusing me of gaslighting which is an abuse word, and mocking people for not having the same solve he does - and hours later, he just posts a meme and votes Elsa Jay for fakeclaiming - after accusing me of gaslighting because I said elsa was fakeclaiming!!!! There is a limit to what I can tolerate

to clarify; I have seen town be arrogant, but when they are, they tend to be very persistent in their beliefs and do not change their minds unless somehow forced to.

I thought originally this was miscommunication and he just wasn't as confident as he sounds, but his stuff on d2 was just like, crossing the line twice over on what can be explained by bad communication

[Ausuka]

ooh, while you're here, i'd like you to explain in depth why you thought me saying elsa jay was fakeclaiming was gaslighting

please show me the town POV here, almighty comus

[Ausuka]

like the suggestion you're making is

you are so certain elsa's claim is real that i am fucking *gaslighting* for saying it is not real

and then later you come back and act sure that it is a fakeclaim for not claiming the modifier, which is information we've had this whole time. i knew that, you knew that

literally what changed?

[Ausuka]

Of course you can't lol

[Ausuka]

Why are you trying to convince me I'm scum lmao

[Ausuka]

k

[Ausuka]

Ausuka, when you come back I’d like you to tell me how often people playing like comus have ended up flipping town vs ended up flipping scum in ur experience

I do not really think I've seen anything like his d2 play

In a vague sense 'town can play badly' is accurate, obviously, and I thought comus was town for the reasons you're insinuating for most of the game.

I can't really reconcile his arrogance with the willingness to totally change pace. Acting like he has the game solved on d2, accusing me of gaslighting which is an abuse word, and mocking people for not having the same solve he does - and hours later, he just posts a meme and votes Elsa Jay for fakeclaiming - after accusing me of gaslighting because I said elsa was fakeclaiming!!!! There is a limit to what I can tolerate

to clarify; I have seen town be arrogant, but when they are, they tend to be very persistent in their beliefs and do not change their minds unless somehow forced to.

I thought originally this was miscommunication and he just wasn't as confident as he sounds, but his stuff on d2 was just like, crossing the line twice over on what can be explained by bad communication

not really talking about the "town can play badly" thing, so much as the "fanatical overconfidence in their abilities" thing.

reminds me of koba tbh (who I think has now chilled out but certainly shortly after joining site koba). I was also bothered by the changing of stances there but I saw koba be confidently totally wrong about things, then completely change their view and be still 100% confident that they were now right despite the impossibility of having been totally right in both cases.

I will read him again to see if this is egregious beyond the point of what I think is reasonable, and I know that I might just be getting sold on the playstyle here but I really do think this comes from town waaaaaay more than scum however annoying it is.

sorry about the gaslighting stuff tho that is fucked, and I should've noticed and said something earlier

Also, with regards to the pet reads thing - do you *expect* me to vote someone I townread when your case on them is that they're easy to kill?

no, I more mean that people are seemingly too committed to their top read. if you actively TR someone that's different and I wasn't just talking about you -- I meant more the people who had enchant in their limmable pile but who weren't willing to vote there because they were too focused on going after someone else. see: Gera, you vs comus and also you vs gimli yesterday (not in reference to enchant but to what I think are likely TvT fights), there were more but memory no work yet, coffee not hit

To be fair I did spec a game with koba on an alt and I scumread them because they were really confidently wrong and they ended up being town >.> but I am pretty sure in that game, they were pretty firm in their beliefs, at least until they were proved wrong by flips? I think the arrogance and confidence in your reads like that is something town players can have for sure, but I don't really think they switch things up from there - I've never seen the juxtaposition of "I am so right 100% on the entire scumteam that I refuse to even talk to my scumread, and if you fools don't see this blatantly obvious solve, that's your problem" to just... posting a monkey meme and voting someone who was not even on your radar before that point. I do think it's just too egregious.

And shrug i am willing to compromise on people who are not my top scumread if need be, but I'm not going to stop pushing my top scumread in the thread either. I don't think the environment of this game is that conducive to a townbloc

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:

So everyone should at least be aware that Gimli's scum game is, like, very very good!

I have a reasonably strong townread on him in this game, though, using that one that just ended as context. He feels fully engaged in solving and scumhunting and doesn't feel like he's setting up partners to me. Gimli's most likely town... but that's never going to be a full clear.

Obviously I wasn't following the game as closely as you were but I think the context is that gimli was, like, kind of poed in the early game and was able to convince people he was town through interactions and, like, presumably solving, later over time until it reached the point people were willing to consider him only alongside mech clears. Is that perception incorrect

[Ausuka]

cause if you're town I have no idea how me being town isn't getting to you, every other seasoned player spotted it at this point.

this post made me want to scream at the time for that reason

[Ausuka]

[Ausuka]

Who? Klick? Elsa? No one.

I don't think you're comprehending your position here yet. Latching onto a mono-narrative, activating the victim card and hoping you can string my rants along by asking leading questions is not going to work out for you.

If you want my mis-execution, the best tactic would be to go back to Day 1 and parrot folk like gimli by saying I was TMI'ng on Enchant, or was hoping to mis-elim Gimli, or you know,say something like I was gunning for Elsa from the start. But these don't really fit your strategy here, do they? No, you want a nice mono-narrative, a nice 'gotcha now you gonna die' and from your wolf perspective my Day One play makes that too hard.

[Ausuka]

Elsa I would like to ask again about the broad intent behind claiming cop as jailkeeper

[Ausuka]

Do you think it is realistic for, like, a Neapolitan and a modified cop to exist in the same game

[Ausuka]

ausuka and comus is TvT

I feel like it is a common reaction to write off arguments with a lot of words as tvt. It is often correct but like calling people town is usually correct anyway. I think people townread volume too easily. Do you have any reason to townread comus beyond he posts a lot and/or seems like a VI?

Pedit: Vanilla cop is a very generous definition of modified cop, considering it is not a modifier and is a totally different role, but in fairness those roles could indeed coexist

[Ausuka]

Maybe I just have nrg brain but in my mind modified cop = role Cop with a modifier which is perfectly reasonable to CC and I want to like feel why Elsa didn't think that way d1

[Ausuka]

to be clear, role Cop is Cop the role, not a Rolecop. That post was terribly worded but hopefully people understand it anyway

[Ausuka]

Elsa Jay's description of the role is correct

Sk can't be in the game

[Ausuka]

Ok I guess I probably indeed have nrg brain

[Ausuka]

I haven't really been feeling like Elsa is scummy by play since early game but like the jk claim is indeed sort of stinky

Not really sure how to approach this

[Ausuka]

to be clear, role Cop is Cop the role, not a Rolecop

Very clear. not confusing at all

Blame the people who decided that half of all investigative roles need to have Cop in their name for some reason

Cops don't even investigate that much

[Ausuka]

I have ausuka as hard town now, incidentally

why

[Ausuka]

It’s Elsa, sorting on claim is inherently a bad idea, ignore everything and anything she says mechanically and just go by play

I mean this is largely what i have been doing

[Ausuka]

mmm donuts

Cops are a role that can confirm alignment, but only if they target a Donut Vendor

[Ausuka]

I remember when I played a normal game with a bulletproof IC. that was fun

[Ausuka]

Time to solve

I believe in our hero Kawaii

[Ausuka]

kawaii pls carry me im tired of mafia

[Ausuka]

Time to solve

How can you scumread a post like this with no follow-through

No he will still follow through I believe

[Ausuka]

Ausuka, Kokichi Oma, Magical Girl, Menalque...

Who're the rabbits? Who're the wolves? Who hunts by moonlight and who are being set up as fools? The world is turning and so the sun dies another death, the silver eye of void staring down 'pon all. Who will fall? Will a final howl be howled? Death stalks, cowled. We must skitter, slither, slide, go deep into our holes and hide.

Voting in Ausuka, Magical Girl, Kokichi Oma and Menalque tomorrow will expose two wolves.

I think this is more evidence in favor of Comus!town
I think the scumteam were legitimately so unconcerned by Comus's influence on the game that they killed Magical Girl despite Comus repeatedly putting her in his list of people to kill today
I think Magical Girl being killed directly indicates Comus's reads not being on scum's mind at all, not Comus intentionally aiming for Magical Girl
ESPECIALLY since the kill was intended to look like Elsa was protected by Magical Girl as a Bodyguard

Maybe I am dum but I just interpreted that as comus being unnecessarily cryptic rather than actually scumreading magical girl

[Ausuka]

Klick's recent stuff has felt better and more in line of what I've seen from town him but I would like to hear more about the 4 people he thinks are likely to be scum and if he's, like, actually scumreading them

[Ausuka]

Ausuka: Comus is my top scumread. I won't be discussing who else can be scum. But everytime anyone townreads Comus I'll be there to say 'No how can you bub Comus baaaad' be sure of that.

I am increasingly convinced you are not reading my posts

[Ausuka]

Have i been somehow unclear about my read on Gimli

I really do not think that is the case but I am willing to take feedback if people who are not comus also think I have been unclear about that

[Ausuka]

Yeah comus is definitely doing this on purpose lol

[Ausuka]

i did consider it, i just... don't really agree? is there a reason I should be trusting klick's read on you so much?

I am indeed not trying to solve the game before we have eliminated a single wolf. i think comus and you are pretty unlikely to be scum together, yes

pedit: I do not think comus is frogsterking anymore

[Ausuka]

like from my perspective, I did read some of that game and I'm pretty sure klick was hard townreading you on play for a lot of the time

[Ausuka]

I just don't really agree that scumhunting is this thing people feel the need to do or need an outlet for

I did a similar scum marathon recently so I think i know the feeling and I just genuinely do not understand the line of thinking there. i never, like, wanted to join and solve in some second mafia game or anything like that

[Ausuka]

i don't remember either town or scum playing like this

[Ausuka]

but i have correctly identified when a push on me is in bad faith before, if that's what you mean

pedit: k

[Ausuka]

well if comus is town that's great because you guys are never going to kill him and mafia are never going to kill him or me so we can just keep doing this for the next two months

[Ausuka]

thanks. it's warm

[Ausuka]

Day 2, one of the most interesting moments is when Ausuka votes Elsa then immediately votes Klick again. My votes on Elsa came soon after that.... I wonder why.

Every post Comus makes is quantity over quality because he knows if he writes enough words people won't read it

[Ausuka]

That's just covered with the traditional wincon of Scum having 50% of the player list left, Enchant. But you know that already. Bleh.

WAIT WHERE FROM YOU KNOW MAFIA WINCON

Elsa jay owned by scumslips epic style

VOTE: Elsa jay

VOTE: Klick

Actually just could not be more obviously a joke.

Comus isn't sorting me in good faith he's literally just trying to maximise the amount of 'points' he makes because he knows people will just roll their eyes and write it off as TvT.

The exact same thing was true of when he said I was gaslighting because I said elsa was fakeclaiming, which was obviously true and something that wasn't only my opinion. When I pressed him on this he just deflected by saying, oh it was just another word for undermining, without even considering talking about *why* me pointing that out would be scummy at all.

[Ausuka]

I have literally discussed elsa recently and I said I townread kokichi a while ago and it hasn't changed

I haven't given a super clear read recently, on like, Skygazer either. i talk about my reads on people when there is something i want to say. super obviously just picking and choosing who you want to 'associate' me with

[Ausuka]

For context I want people to be reminded of the kind of posts Comus was making at the start of the day

Wait do you still think Elsa's a cop lol

I won't be interacting with you this phase.

We still can blast geraintm

No. There are only four possible people who can be scum. geraintm is a distant fifth.

Ausuka>Enchant/Kokichi Oma then Gimli? then geraintm??

That's the hurricane of truth. Now, farewell.

are you a cop?

No.

comus I want to understand what thunder stroke you that you went from full mindmelding with ausuka to her being your 100% solve. that didn't happen overnight, it was d1. show me what posts she made that gave you such a hard impression.

No.

I'm voting Ausuka, only Ausuka, Ausuka is a wolf. I'll be posting again in two plus days.

Ausuka>Enchant/Kokichi Oma.

Everyone else is locktown.

Ausuka is Omgussing me while trying to pocket Gimli.
Enchant is a goon and killed Magical Girl.
Kokichi Oma is with them.


This is the team. All three want to kill our cop. You are all on your own from here on out(Especially you Gimli)

So yeah. Last post in like two-three days, should have logged off a while ago, but this is very important.

Ausuka, Kokichi Oma, Enchant. I'm dead serious about this solve. Enchant is a goon, Enchant killed Magical Girl. I do not know what Ausuka and Kokichi are beyond their alignment.

Here are your wolves. I'm back when I'm back, I have little time for this, but know that this is the big money solve.

Adieu.

"there are only four possible people that can be scum" (not including elsa, of course)
and then suddenly flips to this without any progression, coincidentally after people have been townreading him less for his recent behaviour;

VOTE: Elsa Jay

[Ausuka]

I'd prefer Elsa of those yea

Elsa is like same tier as Klick to me right now, I don't significantly townread her and I am not going to shout about it if people want to kill her but I don't necessarily think she flips scum either

[Ausuka]

Kawaii should work on their theatre. Easy. Game. Cases coming in 36 hours, as time allows. Wolves should try and kill me before then.

I think this is the 7th time youve said this

Kokichi only person in this game with common sense tbh

[Ausuka]

"Comus changed mind."

I would again like to stress that changing your mind is very different to saying that literally *no one other than four people can be scum*, along with many other similar things including pretending I am confirmed scum and refusing to even talk to me, and then pretending that never happened. That kind of read shift does not mesh with the kind of language and the things Comus was saying before pivoting. Comus is intentionally avoiding this because his actions here are inexcusable

[Ausuka]

also the stuff with gimli is such BS because like. i was pushing him and then elsa faked an inno and gimli stopped doing things. what would you even expect in that scenario lol

I am voting you because you are my main scumread and I think the game probably becomes much more enjoyable if one of us is dead. I have no interest in trying to push gimli when that is even less likely to go through and then I have to deal with both you and gimli at the same time

[Ausuka]

It's actually such nonsense too because even if comus was the only person I am scumreading like so what lol

Like is that meant to be scum indicative or something

[Ausuka]

if i disagree with klick's read on gimli I'm 'subtly undermining' him

I am absolutely convinced no one is actually reading comus's posts and are assuming he is town because he posts long things and sounds stubborn

[Ausuka]

Like comus does not give off the vibes of a new player.

If this is what he does, he should not be so unaware of what he is actually saying in the kind of posts he is making at the start of d2. If he is town and genuinely goes from 1000% certainty to 1000% certainty on a mostly different scumteam like instantly, he should have experienced pushback on this already. He should not be acting totally shocked and unbelieving anyone could ever even doubt him on it.

[Ausuka]

I am officially retracting my scumread on Gimli because my confidence on Comus has gone up and they are highly unlikely to both be scum

So Comus actually is my only scumread now yay

[Ausuka]

Thanks I considered putting a stamp on it and using an official font like Times New Roman to really add professionalism but that would take too long I think

[Ausuka]

before I read your posts now i just don't care

I mean by a very technical definition of reading my posts maybe

[Ausuka]

yeah sorry it is not super clear to me what i did wrong but i am just going to back out of the thread for a while and let other people do their thing

[Ausuka]

I am pretty confident koki and enchant are town here

I always believed koki was a vig and you can go back and look at the retraction and it's pretty obv that it was fake

The enchant claim is the exact sort of thing people put in normal games in 2023 and is not an intuitive claim to make, and it also makes a ton of sense considering enchant's interactions with elsa

(Fwiw I think enchant's role is probably more likely to coexist with a cop than a jailkeeper because follow the cop can also be disturbed by mafia roles but lole)

I also don't really understand the sussing them on play. Enchant is def the more towny of the two, although that read is at least partially meta so I'm not surprised not everyone feels that way. I think kokichi's approach to the claim has been pretty town but for the most part I am just townreading him off ~vibes~
Kokichi's readlist kind of sucked but in a low-effort way not in a scum way imo

[Ausuka]

You are not Doc unless your scum doc for said vig claim. What are you doing rn.

Hmmmm do we need to kill elsa

[Ausuka]

I think if elsa is town she is vanilla but that feels increasingly incompatible with her play

[Ausuka]

I'm also willing to eliminate you Ausuka

D:

[Ausuka]

i was pushing the page 2 elsa case surely that has to account for something

[Ausuka]

I'm not going to pretend I know the entire scumteam on day 2

[Ausuka]

I think kawaii is too scummy to be scum lole

[Ausuka]

i was pushing the page 2 elsa case surely that has to account for something

Depends how Elsa flips
You've engaged with so many slots we will get a wealth of info on how you flip
The way you engage the game puts you as a tentative town read in my eyes though, you feel solvey, ironically you will advance the solve when eliminated, it is the ultimate gambit tho, we will lose a lot when losing you

This feels like it should be a scumpost but if u think about it it's actually a townpost because I don't think scum writes this out and clicks submit

[Ausuka]

I'm not going to pretend I know the entire scumteam on day 2

I'm not saying you should, I'm not even expecting you to, but having only one scumread out of at least 2 feels weird to me, especially when that one scumread is Comus who I townread
Feels you scumread Elsa now too but that can be in my own mind

I mean I have ppl I suspect more or less but I'm not going to call people a scumread if they're not in that mental category

I am leaning scum on elsa at this point yeah

[Ausuka]

I think if elsa is town she is vanilla but that feels increasingly incompatible with her play

Are you asking me to elaborate on this or did you miss it

[Ausuka]

The post I quoted is pushing Enchant on his claim in a way I don't like, basically because I think the enchant claim is probably real and I don't really think elsa actually is a jailkeeper regardless of her alignment so I am sus of elsa doubling down there

If I think about it, if she's a town jailkeeper claiming the gimli clear in the way she did was also a pretty weird move, like if elsa was town and gimli was scum that really screwed things up a bit

I think if elsa is town she is vanilla because it would make sense with claiming cop or JK and trying to get nightkilled + she basically softed vt in the post she claimed cop + she is a fakeclaimer as both alignments

[Ausuka]

I play like this because at this point I always am either scum, a town PR, or VT who is going to claim a town PR since it's easier then being VT. I'm aggressive because it helps me stay alive and scum think I'm an easy target because I play like this. I'm not.

The way she namedropped being a VT who is going to claim a town PR makes me believe she is either a VT or scum who wanted to keep that option

Like it's probably *true* but she doesn't have to post this in the same post she claims cop

[Ausuka]

Oops yeah that is not a massive amount of time

VOTE: Elsa Jay

[Ausuka]

i generally try to treat people similarly to how i perceive them to be treating me and i am sorry if i failed to do that.

i don't think koki has much chance of being scum here, but maybe it's not that much worth discussing since he seems self-sorting. enchant i don't really think is likely to be scum at all and if he is that's just a L for me

Klick if you are talking to me pls can you talk about your mena read

[Ausuka]

if u target someone else i can target them and prove you're a compulsive visitor

Actually is there even any point in doing that

[Ausuka]

I think targeting enchant is a fine idea? If you don't want that for whatever reason Gimli is fine, I don't really mind who it is because I don't think scum is going to bother lying about it and possibly incriminating themselves

pedit: fair enough I will try and read his iso at night

[Ausuka]

i'll target enchant, just to confirm, since implo could lock the thread at any time

[Ausuka]

This is too high iq for me I'll just target gimli

[Ausuka]

well he'll know

but ok sure i'll do that

[Ausuka]

What's a visonary?

Visionary targets a player

That player learns what type of roles visited them last night, other than the visionary

The types are sort of arbitrary but you can check the mafiascum wiki to find them, visitor would be Miscellaneous

[Ausuka]

Third

Why are we assuming kokichi was a scum kill? My first thought was that he is vig shot

[Ausuka]

Because I'm actually a combined visionary role watcher

[Ausuka]

No sorry I just felt left out by all the fakeclaims.

I'm not assuming that, it was just my first thought given Enchant's role and koki claiming vig, killing your cc is usually considered the normal way to handle it. It's very possible that it wasn't, I just thought it was weird that the assumption seemed to be being made.

Although I guess if you both believed it ?probably? isn't actually ai

pedit: They absolutely do but I'm not one

[Ausuka]

idk is mystery

[Ausuka]

Because I'm actually a combined visionary role watcher

Role watchers don't exist in normal

Ausuka scum?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Role_Watcher

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Skygazer

enemies to besties arc let's go

[Ausuka]

I do not want to keep fighting comus because nobody else believes it and I am not going to try and push it through that because my reads suck ass

I think of the remainder sky is like, a pretty good vote? Better than kawaii at least

[Ausuka]

Is it me

[Ausuka]

They do not suspect my chatgpt use

[Ausuka]

There was a guy around a few years back who was good at coding and could apparently sort people based on subtle things like the words they use if he had enough data, I think there was a discussion about it but ai remained unbanned

That being said, I don't think chatgpt would be very useful

[Ausuka]

Congratulations on being slightly less likely to be mafia Menalque

[Ausuka]

No sorry I just felt left out by all the fakeclaims.

I'm not assuming that, it was just my first thought given Enchant's role and koki claiming vig, killing your cc is usually considered the normal way to handle it. It's very possible that it wasn't, I just thought it was weird that the assumption seemed to be being made.

Although I guess if you both believed it ?probably? isn't actually ai

pedit: They absolutely do but I'm not one

anyway I made no assumption

Ohh I read too much into the lmao I think

[Ausuka]

massclaiming probably isn't a bad idea but i don't see the need to like, put down our votes or whatever

I am less interested right now in arguing with comus and gimli and more from hearing from skygazer, geraintm, kawaii, klick, menalque

I want to ask why the enchant claim doubt, but if we're massclaiming it makes sense to do that first before we start discussing the setup

[Ausuka]

To be clear; I am loud visionary. No add-ons or anything that is excluded, that's all it is

[Ausuka]

comus does feel more town when he's not pushing me i guess