Micro 1073: Purgatory - Game Over!

[Doctor Drew]

I feel like I don't like self votes here, but I also have never played this setup lol.

I know I am not voting Ranger, or probably Oclax, and to a less of an extent Vander.

Aisa maybe

But for now: VOTE: Vox

[Aisa]

Flip is disappointing
Bella is my #1 townread atm I think
VOTE: Bella

V/LA until the 20th

, but I should be able to say a bit more tomorrow

[Alianna]

Flip is disappointing
Bella is my #1 townread atm I think
VOTE: Bella

V/LA until the 20th

, but I should be able to say a bit more tomorrow

Noted.

[Vanderscamp]

My vote if not for myself would be OE, I think the only way that one is getting through given the state of the thread would be if it's incorrect.

[Doctor Drew]

My vote if not for myself would be OE, I think the only way that one is getting through given the state of the thread would be if it's incorrect.

I need you to walk me through this post

[Bellaphant]

Aisa, vander, could compromise on one

Agree self votes seem a bit desperate

P-edit I think I understood but I'm not going to garcia

[Vanderscamp]

My vote if not for myself would be OE, I think the only way that one is getting through given the state of the thread would be if it's incorrect.

I need you to walk me through this post

My most likely town outside of myself is OE

I could be misreading the thread but I think that's a non-consensus opinion that's likely to not get very many votes.

If it did get 5 votes, it's probably not because 5 town are pushing it.

Like, I definitely could be wrong on Ranger, but even if I think Ranger is like 25% town, I'm 0% to vote them right now because that vote is never succeeding in getting five pure town votes given current reads.

[Aisa]

Anything is gonna struggle getting to 5 pure town votes because there are 5 townies left. I’m not using this to argue in favour of anyone specifically, just observing.

Also if someone is not self voting they can self hammer when they reach 4 votes, so watch out for that.

[Aisa]

Though I get what Vanders is saying: “this slot had 3 people townreading them including themselves, if it suddenly shoots up to 5 that’s maybe not such a good sign”
That’s maybe a townie perspective more than not.

[Aisa]

I can see why Vanders might be an appealing vote today, I could possibly be convinced to vote that, though I want to examine it a bit more

[Bellaphant]

Yes, five pure town votes means that everyone has to agree, which is a) not likely, because even my strong tr in aisa seems to be null/scum by at least two people, b) not really necessary as obv scum are going to want to be on the leasing wagon for 'cred', which helps us

I think the next stage of hell voting is going to be more straightforward but we should also have a plan(Ish) for that now.

I do wonder what will happen to those middle of the road reads (bot and av), where in general people don't seem to have as much of a 'take' on them as they do with 'controversial' reads like ox And and ranger.

[Bellaphant]

Is it four votes tomorrow?

[Bellaphant]

Is there merit in sorting the 'controversial'reads now? Like I could vote ox

[Aisa]

Also note that if we successfully put a townie into heaven today we’ll be in 4v3 tomorrow, which needless to say is a very difficult ratio to eliminate scum in, so the heaven townie is very likely to have to intervene.

I’m not saying to put a scum into heaven because that has its own problems lol, and I don’t know what the implications are, it’s just a thought.

[Aisa]

Some questions I'm asking myself at the moment:
1. Is Ranger scum?
2. How many scum does {Ranger, Vanderscamp} contain?
3. How are the 3 scum split across fault lines? Are they all pushing for the same thing or for different things?
4. How much have scum planned ahead? In particular, are there members of the scum team who have been positioning to look towny since yesterday? Are we even able to tell from the current gamestate?
5. What is the maths of putting a saint vs a sinner in heaven today?
6. Drew pushed me earlier partly based on saying that I'm similar to my previous scum game. I know there are differences. What does this mean?
7. Do I stick with something similar to my current reads, or do I need to throw them out and restart from scratch?

[Bellaphant]

How do you feel about Drew's posting since the flip?
P-edit some of those are interesting questions, I'll think myself

[Vanderscamp]

The only saving grace is that scum can't really out themselves to send a town to hell, because the heaven angels have the chance to rescue it the next day. That shouldn't be too hard if it was done obviously.

[Vanderscamp]

I'm much more worried about sending a sinner to heaven today, I think that will make the game much harder to win than ending up at 4-3.

[Bellaphant]

The only saving grace is that scum can't really out themselves to send a town to hell, because the heaven angels have the chance to rescue it the next day. That shouldn't be too hard if it was done obviously.

Sorry, can you reword this?

[Aisa]

I feel like I don't like self votes here, but I also have never played this setup lol.

I know I am not voting Ranger, or probably Oclax, and to a less of an extent Vander.

Aisa maybe

But for now: VOTE: Vox

RE: drew's posting since flip. He's had made one post since the flip and it's this one.

I want to know why he said he was feeling a bit better about me yesterday (

@Drew

).

Self voting: seems roughly correct for both factions to want to vote themselves today, so I don't know if self-voting is AI. What does this imply about Drew? I know he's pretty good at faking being confused about the setup as scum. But maybe this is too fuzzy a concept to really be useful here (ever get people who think they understand your meta but they don't?).

He doesn't wanna vote Ranger, Oclax, probably not Vanders, maybe or maybe not me: these are the 4 scumreads he identified while he was catching up, right? I don't have a super strong take on this, but I'm interested to hear what he thinks of Vanders (

@Drew

). I note this is a mix of scumreads that reaches across some of the camps that seemed to be forming yesterday, no idea what this means though.

(Another interesting question: why was

literally everyone alive except me

* wary of Ranger yesterday? This means there were some townies who were wary of Ranger yesterday, which was one of the reasons I started to moderate myself a bit on the read. But it's interesting to me that the opposite mood seemed to be missing somehow, i.e. that

no-one

except me seemed to get why Ranger seemed towny in ways. Yet there was a long stretch of time where it felt like no one was especially pushing her, either.)

*I know Arko thought she was towny.

[Aisa]

Is there merit in sorting the 'controversial'reads now? Like I could vote ox

Why could you vote Ox, and what do you think the merit could be to sorting controversial slots now?

[Aisa]

Ok, list of reasons to TR Bella, I think this might be my last post before I become less available.

Reason 1: general vibes / tone, this will be more convincing to me than to others but that’s ok

UNVOTE: On re-evaluation, I don't think OE is scum. Seems quite townie.

@Bellephant: Can you elaborate on your thought process behind voting Arko?

Something just feels really inorganic? The auto townreads felt strange for doing what seemed very surface level set up stuff, rather than 'yay, town -sided!' or whatever, and then the convo with Ox again didn't vibe right: I ended up tr-ing the ox slot ans not feeling anything more about arko, which tends to be one of my red flags for scum: they end up feeling 'grey'. I need to think about rangers interactions with arko too.

I don’t feel either way about the reasons she gives here but I like that this seems to show depth in her thought process.

I can't work out my read on aisa at all: I thought vibed obv!town, then I was weirdes out about them being so strange about granting a town read, then town again, then I disliked their jumping in fully with ranger, but their response was vibe town again. The thing that's bothering me about their recent posting though is that it feels quite ...self conscious?

I think she’s waffling on me for reasons that it’s natural to waffle on. Again, I think I just liked the fact she bothered to express this read.

I think the setup is townsided because it has a history of 5 town wins and 1 mafia win. I wouldn't be able to tell by looking at the mechanics of it. That being said, I'm not sure what we gain by knowing it's townsided. Does that mean we shouldn't try as hard?

Bloodbot, struggling to read you too: can you throw a question or thought at me?

I don't have much to say, other than to ask for your thoughts behind:

NGL I'd kinda been looking for two scum.

I'm looking forward to Kowahbunga's thoughts on the game.

Yeah, I think it was because of the talk of pairs and theatre? Ox/arko, arko/ranger, etc. I am not good at mech at the best of tinws

I think this may be the towniest post in her ISO. If I were scum trying to fake a townslip, “I’d been looking for two scum because of all the talk of pairs” wouldn’t be anywhere near the top of my list of excuses. So I think this post shows a very towny perspective.

Hey, do you want to throw a few questions my way? You've kinda been filed in my head as 'kinda shares my reads' and I haven't massively examined that.

I like “you’ve been filed in my head as…”, again this raises the probability (to me) that Bella has all these reads and thoughts living in her head and that she’s not just making them up when she has to.

I want feedback on this post, please!

[AurorusVox]

Asia, the Bella stuff I can at least understand your pov on it. I’m kinda half letting my townread on you guide my other reads cos I’ve found it quite hard to get my head into the game and found myself skimming a bit.

Vanders - what’s your take on Asia/Bella?

I find the drew vote on me a little suspect like dude I was thirsting for arko to be limmed most of yesterday are you trying to get inside my head lol

Self voting is logically the best play here but we’d get nowhere with it so we do need people who aren’t getting to heaven to not self vote. Problem is that puts the power into the scummiest peoples hands.

Could I propose something akin to a draft where we assume everyone has a self vote and therefore we need to secure 4 supporting votes for a person to go to heaven?

So like everyone would say who they would send to heaven other than themselves and we see if anyone hits 4 that way? Eg I would send Vanders or Asia.

And failing that like a tournament style where like we all propose one person to send and anyone who gets 0 votes gets removed and then we go again with anyone with 0-1 votes removed, then 0-2 etc until we have found the right person?

I just feel like the risk otherwise is people voting themselves and not being as willing to change…

Bella i see you asking me to engage you and that’s fine maybe you can start with telling me what you think of my plan above??

[AurorusVox]

Aisa, vander, could compromise on one

Agree self votes seem a bit desperate

P-edit I think I understood but I'm not going to garcia

Why do self votes seem desperate? Townies know it’s a vote for a townie; scum will want to vote themselves too. I’d say it’s NAI and would assume anyone would self vote if there are 4 other votes for them to go to heaven.

[Bellaphant]

@mod, vla at least until monday

Noted.