Election! | GAME OVER

[GuiltyLion]

I did say I had a "genuine vibe" from furtive yeah but that's not enough for me to decide not to vote somewhere, scum can have genuine vibes

Also, what I'd personally like from you is your thought on whether ircher townslipped or not

[Alisae]

VOTE: furtiveglance

but...
why?

[Alisae]

Am I missing something?
I can’t believe I just got donowalled

[Save The Dragons]

not going to join a furtive wagon

[UNOwen]

Ircher faking a townslip fits fine with the scum case against him since his first post had the same "what mechanics??" vibe. It felt false then, his latest post not so much but it also didn't feel particularly genuine either.

As far as I'm aware it's still not clear how much of the game he's even read.

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: furtiveglance

but...
why?

-furtive's reads seem so backwards/undeveloped to me that they feel more likely to be faked (see: defense of xofelf against slip turning into a vote on xofelf, calling bl00dbot "obvious town" based on one prior game together)

-if furtive is town and LLD is town (which seems to be universally accepted?) then it means literally no scum were pushing him yesterday or today, I find that unlikely

-if Ircher is town, who is scum? like IMO the POE is either narrow enough that furtive is high odds of scum or things are Not Right with the gamestate (SK scum world would be maybe the main other compelling explanation, but I don't want to yeet SK before flipping once more elsewhere)

[GuiltyLion]

It felt false then, his latest post not so much but it also didn't feel particularly genuine either.

so do you think scum!Ircher knows there's a doc ability and was pretending not to?

[UNOwen]

Yes

[Save The Dragons]

how come it couldn't just be a scum who doesn't know there's a doc because they didn't read everything

[GuiltyLion]

how come it couldn't just be a scum who doesn't know there's a doc because they didn't read everything

because scum talk to each other and generally try to win the game

[Save The Dragons]

you're assuming that

[Save The Dragons]

it's a fair assumption but if a scum team is apathetic or if ircher just forgot a detail it seems possible

[GuiltyLion]

sure, but that seems like a pretty reasonable and fair assumption to make. I'd much rather assume scum are discussing the mechanics of the game amongst themselves than not, and it's extremely rare that assumption has failed me or lead to an incorrect read.

I think it's far more likely he could be attempting to dumb-tell (UNOwen's take), but that didn't feel like a calculated attempt to me.

[GuiltyLion]

got p-edited but in response to your last post, I don't think the team is apathetic. it doesn't feel to me like town is winning right now

[GuiltyLion]

hell the team could be something like Bingle+Alisae+SK in which case we are REALLY not doing well

[UNOwen]

I think it's far more likely he could be attempting to dumb-tell (UNOwen's take), but that didn't feel like a calculated attempt to me.

For this, the reason I wouldn't be surprised if it was an attempted "dumb-tell" is that this question specifically:

Pooky's final thoughts:

Ali scummy, although he didn't go in depth on that.
Furtive towny, b/c scum furtive has no incentive to stick his neck out for town xofausuka and furtive isn't the type to try to use reverse psychology to ensure a vig target doesn't change. I agree because even if STD is scum, killing me or Cakez was probably better for town than killing xofausuka since we were primed to be a big distraction. (I was tunneled hard on Cakez EoD1, so scum would probably have liked me to continue in that vein.)
Skrew scum is a coward if he doesn't fake a guilty.

Is this based on the last few pages of the thread? Because if so, that's not the impression I got with regards to Pooky's reads.

Gave that exact vibe. It doesn't seem likely that Ircher genuinely thought Bingle was reporting Pooky's thoughts based on the pages he read. So if he tried it once then trying it again but sounding more natural isn't impossible. And since I'm bringing up this post, this response to LLD:

I have accountability, GL. Someone else will take my role and see what ability I used, because they won't be able to use it.

That's not really accountability. There's too many things that could prevent that from being effective such as your successor getting killed, your successor being scum, etc.

Sounded pretty confident in his opinion, which would imply he read enough to understand the conversation he was interjecting on - and that conversation included LLD outing that she had a doc ability on the same page.

[GuiltyLion]

hmmmmmm you raise a compelling counter-argument

I'd like Ircher to maybe explain what happened that lead him to miss/forget the doctor thing but I am tempted to vote him

[Alisae]

-furtive's reads seem so backwards/undeveloped to me that they feel more likely to be faked (see: defense of xofelf against slip turning into a vote on xofelf, calling bl00dbot "obvious town" based on one prior game together)

I really want to kill Furtive today and I don't understand why epople view that player as so town lol

idk it just feels overall like he's the one guy who most genuinely has a worldview he thought about / genuinely believes lol

something there separates it strongly from like, just spamming reads and appearing confident, makes me believe it's totally real solving in a way no one else has the same effect

very abstractly

not a quality of reasoning thing, like nearly purely tone/language

his quality of reasoning has sometimes been fairly subpar

ya I agree with sheep it seems agendaless

What wincon is he playing to by voting SK and doing nothing again?

[Alisae]

-if furtive is town and LLD is town (which seems to be universally accepted?) then it means literally no scum were pushing him yesterday or today, I find that unlikely

Seems completely possible to me
I imagine Furtive's behavior is something town can pretty easily get fixated on

[Alisae]

Who are furtive's teammates?
It's not me.

Guy just seems like he's playing without teammates and just doing his own thing

[Alisae]

I think Ircher is a wolf that's just trying to do the bare minimum.
That just what has to make sense here I feel like.

I think my posts on D2 about Gimli still hold up, I think Lorne pushing Dan and not doing much holds up as wolf motivation if Lorne knew xof was town and wanted to try to get some towncred, and Ircher isn't doing much of anything right now

so like
I think it just kind of has to be Ircher

[sheepsaysmeep]

semi-prodge

to be clear I am in a similar mode to STD I feel like it's just Ircher and kinda lazy to talk abt it

[Alisae]

I remember in Pooky v FL Ircher was coming up with takes that weren't really all that logically sound?

I wonder if wolf!Ircher makes takes pushes teams that sound realistic?

Cuz like with the former, they might not be logically sound at a first glance, but they ARE logically sound to him.
Where as the ladder is something that I feel like could be easier to get behind?

And I also imagine any wolf wants to push furtive is gonna be like "This Ali person isn't doing much of anything and they're defending Furtive! I could push that as their partner!" so that's why I think Ircher pushing me and Furtive as teamed is maybe aimed @ presenting something that looks realistic.

Does that make sense?

[sheepsaysmeep]

alisae just curious what u think if one were to suggest this is DADV

[furtiveglance]

Can people other than GL explain their refusal to kill SleepyKrew? I explained why it's a win/win already.